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Firmware Build only For Developers? my Demand to Google / HTC

I think being a Open Source Code and Openness in Architecture, API Google Should Ship Different Firmware for Developers, Software Builders, Codec Programmer etc.
Better for Google / T-Mobile / HTC
They can restrict Developer Device to get Back Normal Shipped Firmware.
Developer Device Activation Method can be Introduced so Once you Activate that IMEI for Developer Edition you could get only Limited Warranty from HTC for that IMEI.
Once you load Different Firmware, company may not allow you to Flash Normal Shipped / OTA Firmware signed by Different Signature.
Developer Edition of Firmware can have Test Key or Developer Key based Recovery Partition. But can not Erased the way we did it before.
Developer firmware must be only available via SDCard Method
No OTA should be given except for some killbits Urgency.
Their should be Disclaimer and Agreement for Warranty Issue
Better for Developers
Rather then Fighting for root this could be Straight Access to Device
No More Hacking and Exploits needed.
Building Firmware, API, Services, Codes which need Root Access can be Tested with Device rather then Emulator.
Customizing OS and using it for Self and Distributing it to user who can take risk may get easy Access to Mods.
Google Should Protect Recovery Image and Boot Image from being Flashed this will reduce Bricking Issue.
Please report your Comments here
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4

This won't happen. They will plainly tell you to build your own version and thats logical too. G1's version of Android is T-Mobile's, they paid for it, so it has everything that T-Mobile wants, and its for the average user who doesnt care about root etc. If you want a developer version, you can always compile it with default root access n stuff, thats the beauty of Open source.

Building Customized Firmware that's what i am saying unless you don't have root access you can not Build and Flash Customized Image. and in RC30 Release they have removed root access and telnetd.
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.

hetaldp said:
Means they have stopped all door for Customizing firmware and flash it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not say that the stopped or closed all doors for customizing. Yes they took aways root but it does not mean we wont find a new door. With hacking any device its all about finding the newer better way to get in.

If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now

Rather then sitting idle and wishing for Google to rethink and give us root access gradually is not enough we should sign the link above and suggest them for that requirement.

benmyers2941 said:
If you look at the amount of time that has been spent on Android since it was originally announced the development time is incredibly short. For that reason I could see Google wanting to restrict root access until they are more certain of the potential complications of allowing access to the various parts. Perhaps we'll see a gradual releas of root access as the error handling capability of Android is improved.
Or that could just be wishful thinking. At this point I'm wishing that I hadn't taken the official RC30, but too late now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.

RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Five or six years seems terribly long. I know they did a lot of work on the dalvik VM but still.. I wouldn't be surprised if they had lost of lot of time in legalese and negotiation with hw maker and providers. I work in telco, although not the mobile industry and you can barely imagine the bully tactic employed by the big names to keep challengers out.. Ya don't wanna lose yar winmo 6 preferred pricing ar righ'?
Anyway, if it's true I'm even more surprised at some of the current shortcoming of the platform. Internationalization and lack of support for bluetooth comes to mind first.
But anyway, it's a young platform in terms of "days in the wild" and it's already quite good. What I'm a little bit afraid of is that T-Mo might not keep the update coming to bring new features to the phone in order to get people to upgrade their handset. We'll see.
As for developer build, Google has said that they would release Android so you could build your own device not that every device would be open.
I believe your demand should have been addressed to T-Mobile, not to Google nor HTC. Having an open device would be a tremendous benefit for Google as it would attract more qualified hobbyist developers to the Android platform. HTC probably doesn't really care either way, they're in the business of selling hardware, once you bought it they won't see any of the additional revenue stream, so if they can move ten thousand more unit because some people would like to use them as development device, I'm pretty sure they'd be for it. Assuming they don't have to support the cost of technical support for those "customized" devices.

RyeBrye said:
Android was under development for 5 or 6 years before they announced it. It wasn't as rushed as you make it sound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.

neoobs said:
Where did you get your information? I doubt that the entire OS was under development for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they started the idea of making a mobile OS but I don't think they actually have been coding it. I think it has been more product development not software. Things like (capacitive or resistive) or (mini USB or proprietary) and of course (on screen or hardware keyboard... or both)
Think about it they have to have a device in mind or a general lay out of the device before making the OS for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe... That is most peoples understanding aswell.
Android is NOT Google's property (at least that I know of). Android has been in development for 5-6 years WITHOUT Google.
Android did not get the time of day UNTILL Google joined.

Then it wasn't being developed... it was staleware that google dusted off... I understand it isn't google's software but honestly you can't build something without knowing what devices it will be on. If built 6 years ago... it would have been built for devices from 6 years ago using resistive screens, proprietary connections, and most likely an onscreen keyboard. Mobile devices have changed a lot in 5 years and that would mean android was rebuilt from the ground up, if it was made 5 years ago. I think there may have been development and ideas 5 years ago but nothing even close to a working model(alpha software)

Being based on Linux, it is already extremely flexible with regards to hardware requirements. The only real requirement I am aware of is an ARM processor > 200 mhz...
Google bought Android in August of 2005, at that point in time, the company had existed for 22 months. So definitely some design elements of the OS have existed that long.

Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?

neoobs said:
Yea but you have to write new code for each piece of hardware to interface with the OS... and things like resistive and capacitive screens are the big ones because of how the UI will be... Think about how WM6 would be if you had to use the center of your finger instead of a stylus? The UI for WM7 (whatever it will be called) has to change because it is supposed to be used on capacitive devices. Same goes with other things like how it will interface with USB and the keyboard(easiest) But each thing needs to interface into the OS and each of those are what takes time and all of those look rushed. I am also guessing that Google spent time recoding the email app and calendar and contact apps to interface with their servers as well. So what is left from android before google started? Does anyone have any proof or should I just say citation is needed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what I am saying. Android is specifically designed to abstract all of those things. Want to add a new method for input? Fine, make a kernel module for it... Want to add a new interface port? Fine, make a kernel module for it. The modules are provided by either the device manufacturer (depending on how they've licensed the particular technology) or by the chipset manufacturer... This is no different than how the same distribution of Linux can run on x86, ARM, PPC, & Itanium with hundreds of different chipsets, network cards, etc.
From the very beginning Google has been saying that Android will run on a wide variety of phone hardware, even going so far as saying it could run on flip phones.

Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.

neoobs said:
Yes but google had to create all of those for the G1 and it didn't have 5-6 years to do it.
Although I doubt it would work well on resisitive screens would be weird as its interface is meant for capacitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.

Google made Dalvik, and a couple of the applications, the members of the Open Handset Alliance provided the kernel level modules.
I found an article from earlier this summer that briefly goes over the timeline and what Google had in mind with this whole thing: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android?currentPage=all

quedijo said:
Yes and that is why Linux kernels are sweet.
The kernel is set, done, finished (of course with room for upgrades).
All you need to do is create kernel modules ("drivers" for the rest of us, [I use Windows & Fedora]) for hardware to comunicate with the kernel.
The kernel has been there for a while, being developed by people who wanted an open phone OS. You can develope an OS regardless of what hardware is out there right now.
If you want to think of it in Windows terms, it's exactly the same. XP was writen years ago and that Kernel is still the same, but all you need is drivers for new hardware to comunicate with the windows kernel.
Actually now that I think about it, I beleave the XP kernel is still based on the 2K kernel. I'll look it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XP was built on the NT kernel along with Vista and everything else made since 2000. Although that kernel is not the same at all anymore... sure it has all the same features but has been tweaked to all heck.
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?

neoobs said:
One thing I don't understand is where is the developer version or at least updated emulator package?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://source.android.com/
The emulator doesn't have to be updated. It's just QEMU with a fancy GUI. Assuming they're keeping the repo over there up to date, you should be able to check out the latest version, build the images, fire it up in the emulator, and be on your way... and if you have a rooted G1, as long as you include the proprietary stuff from HTC (kernel modules that I'm sure they can't GPL), you should be able to boot it up... which, unless I am mistaken, is exactly what JesusFreke did in the first place.

Everybody Please make Comment on this Issue with Official G1 Suggestion Thread i opened
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1266&can=4
Hetal

For those of you who want winmo on your G1 try this.

I looked up an article about a smartphone that runs on both windows mobile and andriod using a special bootloader called U-boot it is an open-source boot loader try getting this on the G1 then try to get windows mobile image or something on the g1 via this bootloader. the phone I am referencing this from is the Compulab exeda their article can be found here: http://i.gizmodo.com/5131507/compulab-exeda-a-stocky-phone-stuffed-full-of-features-and-oss
Use this bootloader then tell me how you will get windows mobile

wattt!!! so basically u saying hey i dnt know if this will work but kill your fone then tell me how it work out. Btw first the bootloader have to be ported to g1 hardware

ya that guy says here do this and let me know if it works . but if im reading this right a dual boot g1?

That's what it seems like. That could mean anything really... but it has an ethernet port! Can we say insta-router/modem? How odd and cool at the same time! But if it's truly a duel mode phone, WM on Android is just a tiny step away But then again... Since the phone itself is entirely different than the G1, how will it be ported? Just a bootloader isn't gonna do it. It will have to be modified completely. It's still better than trying to port from a TyTn or something else. U boot will have to support the G1's hardware or something extremely similar (a least a HTC phone). And the WM image could be gotten from anywhere but preferably from this phone, the exeda (may be the .nbf will leak sometime or it will get a downloadable update for WM).

LOL i meant dual boot as in the "linux" flavor for nokia i was thinking... sorry but as fast as android is advancing im ready to kiss WM goodbye. But sure people will either want to throw WM or possibly a dualboot on there g1's if it is possible

I've used u-boot on many different platforms... You guys have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't something you just "put" onto the G1... it would need to be written(ported) for the G1, bring up all the hardware, initialise RAM, etc... this would replace the SPL, not the OS, so you would also have to find a way to get u-boot to load wince (I've only used u-boot to boot linux, redboot is for wince).... this thread is like all the comments on the google apps store asking app developers to write flash for the browser...

I would love to get something like this, even wondered when they will come out with it. But I do think it will be something that will have to come on the phone, not as a 3rd party app. But I do hope HTC will bring out a hybrid like this. And a Ethernet port. Holy crap, I love that!!

i have a dream...
I have a dream that one day HTC will offer the drivers to the devices they sell.. that would make every developers live easier. If they released the drivers for all the hardware u could run any OS on the dream.
I would acctually pay for that

apatcas said:
I have a dream that one day HTC will offer the drivers to the devices they sell.. that would make every developers live easier. If they released the drivers for all the hardware u could run any OS on the dream.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is, HTC may or may not have the rights to release the code for those drivers, even if they wanted to. Many drivers come from hardware manufacturers (like Qualcomm, for example) and don't give clients like HTC the rights to distribute them except in binary form.
One day everything will be open-source. One day a carrier who advertises a phone as "open" will actually sell it as open, too.

I had my laptop dual boot with Slax and Win XP for about a week. I can't tell you how much I regret wasting the time to even set that up. Lets say you get the bootloader to work on the G1... Now tell me... what exactly are you going to use to control the capacitive touch screen and why? Can't we all just admit that Windows time is near its end and its only saving grace is to mimic what the open source communities are doing, or Apple if you want to refer to Windows 7... ick i say, ick.

True i am going to hijack this and wonder also why has no one looked into why we are only using 384mhz of the 528mhz that the processor can run at it was in another thread that no one commented on?

sino8r said:
That's what it seems like. That could mean anything really... but it has an ethernet port! Can we say insta-router/modem? How odd and cool at the same time! But if it's truly a duel mode phone, WM on Android is just a tiny step away But then again... Since the phone itself is entirely different than the G1, how will it be ported? Just a bootloader isn't gonna do it. It will have to be modified completely. It's still better than trying to port from a TyTn or something else. U boot will have to support the G1's hardware or something extremely similar (a least a HTC phone). And the WM image could be gotten from anywhere but preferably from this phone, the exeda (may be the .nbf will leak sometime or it will get a downloadable update for WM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good news I mentioned that the U-boot bootloader is open source

beartard said:
The problem is, HTC may or may not have the rights to release the code for those drivers, even if they wanted to. Many drivers come from hardware manufacturers (like Qualcomm, for example) and don't give clients like HTC the rights to distribute them except in binary form.
One day everything will be open-source. One day a carrier who advertises a phone as "open" will actually sell it as open, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
compulab has already made that dream come true with the exeda

damien667 said:
I've used u-boot on many different platforms... You guys have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't something you just "put" onto the G1... it would need to be written(ported) for the G1, bring up all the hardware, initialise RAM, etc... this would replace the SPL, not the OS, so you would also have to find a way to get u-boot to load wince (I've only used u-boot to boot linux, redboot is for wince).... this thread is like all the comments on the google apps store asking app developers to write flash for the browser...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can redboot be modified to run windows mobile???

qjsmartphone said:
compulab has already made that dream come true with the exeda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually pretty slick. I wonder if a version will support tmo-usa's 3G band?

Ubuntu on G1

I thought I'd share the find...
Ubuntu on G1
Now, this is lite version of Ubuntu desktop running in Android environment. Awesome but somewhat complicated to achieve and most likely not for n00bs (like me )

Thanks a lot for the information. I'm trying this out.

Well I check it out and the file is corrupted. =[

would love to try this out...

yea not too overly practical but i would still do it for them bragging rights : D

bobzoz said:
yea not too overly practical but i would still do it for them bragging rights : D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point - so I put debian into my G1, but what to do with it? Ok, I installed sshd... Not much use for it either

Wouldn't you then be able to install Open Office and work with Office documents or a PDF viewer?

I manage to make it run but it's really running to slow to be somehow usable;
It's rather a proof on concept I'd say
Ram memory of android is too small for this to work, and the Arm CPU (even if running at 528) doesn't seem that fast!

I don't know why but neither this nor debian is working for me. I got Debian working fine on RC33 but now Im on JF 1.5 ADP and whenever I try to run the start script or install script it tells me permission denied. I dont quite get it?
Chuck

I have iceWM running fine. It's not very practical to run a desktop on your phone... but very cool to show off.

If we are able to get linux distros running on our G1. Shouldn't it be possible to use flash in them?

Wow, what a load of crap.
There is no POINT in having Ubuntu on your phone like this. All this guy did was rip a few things from people who really did it and changed a few things (including an install script), and then claimed it as his own. This has been done since FOREVER ago... like back in January. You should run Debian on your phone, its more practical because you don't need the useless crap that Ubuntu comes with for your phone. What you SHOULD do, is install Debian and install what you want from there, including the desktop.
Also, you can't run Debian the same on RC33 as you can on the newer 1.5 builds. You have to run Debian on your apps partition, meaning you have to have an ext2 partition on your sd card, and then run it off of that. You don't necessarily need your apps on the SD card, but if you do, you will have them both on the same partition.
So, let me draw this out for those of you that aren't going to get this because it goes WAAAAY over your heads:
1. To run Debian on your SD card, IF you have the newer firmware (1.5 or "Cupcake"), then you will NEED to have your Debian installation on your ext2 partition.
2. Don't even bother trying to figure it out if this post didn't make sense. It's too complicated for you and you're not going to use it. It's debatable whether you should even have root.

Nice, willtry this later see if i can get it to work x_x

Just as damageless said, why would someone want to use a x86-only mod of Debian on G1????

To run or not to run this is personal preference. Usefull? I don't know. However, this wasn't discussed on XDA before so I figured I'd post it in case anyone is interested.
@ damageless: it is not up to you to decide who is worthy of root. With you attitude you shoudn't even be allowed to leave the house.
@ everyone else: yes, this is only proof of concept but it has a potential to grow and may be evolve into something that can be of use to some people with time.
People need to lighten up....seriously.

borodin1 said:
@ damageless: it is not up to you to decide who is worthy of root. With you attitude you shoudn't even be allowed to leave the house.
People need to lighten up....seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed...
If this ever becomes functional outside of a vm, it could make things interesting. Although, I doubt it will have support for the qualcomm processor, so it will still just be for fun.
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile

The problem isn't that they can't, the problem is that they whine when they can't get something to work and they aren't smart enough to use the search button. It's always the same people.
Ubuntu has not been discussed on here, because it's just stupid to put it on there when you can put Debian on your device. Do you really need any extra stuff that comes with Ubuntu? I think not.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=507291
Does that look familiar to you?
Basically he took credit for someone else's work and you decided to post it on here. Thanks.
I'm leaving the house now.

chuckhriczko said:
I don't know why but neither this nor debian is working for me. I got Debian working fine on RC33 but now Im on JF 1.5 ADP and whenever I try to run the start script or install script it tells me permission denied. I dont quite get it?
Chuck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed debian on my PC using something like that:
debootstrap --verbose --arch armel --foreign lenny debian http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian
and then just copy the directory to the phone and complete the rest steps from a guide

damageless said:
The problem isn't that they can't, the problem is that they whine when they can't get something to work and they aren't smart enough to use the search button. It's always the same people.
Ubuntu has not been discussed on here, because it's just stupid to put it on there when you can put Debian on your device. Do you really need any extra stuff that comes with Ubuntu? I think not.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=507291
Does that look familiar to you?
Basically he took credit for someone else's work and you decided to post it on here. Thanks.
I'm leaving the house now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I'm not as jaded as you, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. The link the OP provided, is a link to installing Ubuntu and THAT post links to the original AndroidFanatic article about installing Debian. Incidentally, that's the same article that zeezee's post links to as well.
I just don't see where anybody is taking credit for anything. The guy used the instructions for installing Debian, but used Ubuntu instead. Who got snubbed here? I'm curious to know what I'm missing.

If you've got enough space, etc. to do a full Ubuntu install, then why not?! The MID edition would be brilliant if it was properly configured - not least for the multitude of free programs that you wouldn't have to haphazardly search for on the Market.
Sure it wouldn't be as refined as Debian, and the guy definitely used other peoples' work, but it's progress nonetheless.
Also, most open source projects (especially operating systems) use the work of others to move forwards.

Linux on Microsoft Surface

I'm wondering if you can run Ubuntu or any kind of Linux. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

HTCEvoHaxx said:
I'm wondering if you can run Ubuntu or any kind of Linux. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes of course you can run Ubuntu, I have it right now on my Surface... :good:
Or wait, maybe we should wait till the device is actually out so we can check what can be done?
And if you want any kind of Linux tablet... try Android

Yeah this is something we will not know till people can get there hands on a device. The chances are no as its rumoured the bootloader will be locked and windows has no forum of chroot...but maybe in a virtual machine
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

Secure Boot should be able to be turned off on the Surface Pro. Then you have a regular UEFI based boot loader which should allow Linux to run without problems (UEFI boot code is part of Linux through the Itanium support as Itanium always has been using UEFI).
For the Surface RT it will be locked so without cracking it open neither Ubuntu nor Android will be able to run on it.

It is more likely that Microsoft this time is taking the Apple model and putting it to practise. It is a hardware with software specifically fine-tuned as an appliance (i.e. total combo, seamless experience) both developed by the same developer. So it is unlikely that they would allow, at least officially, alternative operating systems to boot up. It may be possible but not trivial.
All this speculation, however, is pure nonsense

Question Linux User Question

Hello Everyone,
It's been a couple devices since my last Galaxy. Previously had the 1+8Pro and the P3XL before that. When I had the SGS4 I had a Windows PC and Odin. Now I have a Linux box and know I now have to get Hiemdall. Any advice on version info and anything else that would be beneficial to have?
Current setup is Linux Mint with KDE desktop but I'm thinking it's time for a change.

Here I am still excited about Linux Mint.
Naturally, updated and equipped with the latest version of OS and applications.
When I discovered Android as an operating system in December, by delving into the smartphone a bit more….instead of just using it, I noticed that Linux is very closely related to Android.
This means among other things, that Heimdall works fine, but I still found it very difficult to understand and requires a lot of study and patience. (maybe because I used older phones to learn)
You might be interested in taking a look at Wine... then you can make Linux and Windows work together.
Also is Linux very well capable of running a Virtual Machine.
Linux, which today bears strong resemblance to Ubuntu, does have excellent support for ADB and the other necessary programs.
Just some thoughts. Sincerely.

I went to a Linux environment for the simple reason of easier interaction with an Android device. Under Windows there was almost always some type of issue. From drivers to programs not working right. With Linux there's none of that. Makes looking for a "way in" easier, too.
I was hoping for an answer like "get version X from here" but since posting my question I've found a couple. The new device will be here today. I'll be doing a repo/compile from Git and reacquainting myself with Hiemdall.

FernBch said:
Hello Everyone,
It's been a couple devices since my last Galaxy. Previously had the 1+8Pro and the P3XL before that. When I had the SGS4 I had a Windows PC and Odin. Now I have a Linux box and know I now have to get Hiemdall. Any advice on version info and anything else that would be beneficial to have?
Current setup is Linux Mint with KDE desktop but I'm thinking it's time for a change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you successfully used Hiemdall to root your S22 Ultra?

I have a carrier locked device and can't root. I repoed and compiled but haven't used it yet. I want to switch over to the U1 firmware.