Hi!
Is there any info about the interface between the Surface and the cover keyboards? Is it a sort of USB port but with different connector or something totally different?
I was thinking about building an interface to connect this keyboard to a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (You can connect a regular desktop PC keyboard by using an USB OTG adaptor cable) but this would be only possible if the keyboard uses a standard USB protocol. If that's the case, it would be just a matter of adapting the connector.
It is not USB.
I cant find the post right now but a few guys including myself had a discussion about what it could be based mostly on guesswork and the device manager.
Hardware teardowns have shown that of the 6 contacts, pin 4 for some reason is not connected.
bare minimum there must be a voltage supply and a ground pin. Thats 2 pins of the 5 consumed.
The keyboard we know for a fact has an accelerometer on it. The microsoft hardware guidelines state that accelerometers and other sensors for windows tablets should be i2c devices. So the keyboard must have at least 1 i2c bus (2 more of the 5 pins consumed).
Device manager lists the actual keyboard as an i2c device, same for the mouse. They can share the above i2c bus already.
What the remaining pin is for? no idea. Could just be a simple detect port for detecting if the keyboard is present or not rather than firing up the i2c bus again and again, but that would not offer any benefits. Alternately it is common for i2c buses and some sensors (like accelerometers) to use 3.3v logic whereas many keyboard matrix driver chips are 5v. So it could be seperate 3.3v and 5v supplies. Who knows. Either way it cant be a USB port.
You wont be able to make a simple cable to connect the keyboard to a USB port (such as that on a OTG adaptor).
USB > i2c adaptors dont work under android either.
You could however take a microcontroller (arduino, picaxe, raw pic or avr chips even, whatever floats your boat) which possesses i2c (which most have at least 1), work out how to interface the keyboard to that (difficult but possible) and then you have a few options. Some microcontrollers can act as a USB device (infact this is what your keyboard is probably doing). I have seen arduinos used as a USB keyboard device. You could basically program the arduino/other microcontroller to act as a USB keyboard to android, but interface via i2c to the touch/type covers and convert the i2c data to the USB keyboard data. As far as android cares it has a standard USB keyboard plugged in. As far as the keyboard cover cares it is connected to an i2c host.
No one to my knowledge has found an exact pinout diagram or the exact protocol used to interface to the cover though.
Thanks for the info, 6677!
As you say, it would be possible to build a microcontrolled interface converter, but it would be useless for this because the size would make impractical to use it as a cover.
I hope some third party will release soon something similar for the Galaxy. there are some bluetooth thin keyboards out there, but the need of batteries and recharging port makes impossible to achieve the 3mm of the Surface Touch keyboard. Good thing about this keyboard is it doesn´t need external power and it serves as a cover without adding to the thickness of the pack (well, no more than a simple cover)
An AT-Tiny has i2c and can use V-USB to emulate the keyboard while being absolutely tiny. Hell, your going to need a connector to fit on the keyboard end, the AT-Tiny could probably fit inside that connector quite nicely.
No need to use a full arduino dev board. Only need the actual microcontroller itself.
Using a full size board might be useful for getting everything working in the first place though,
The previously mentioned discussion took place in the Dev forum ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2211825 , post #19 onward).
I did a few tests with a multimeter on the keyboard itself a while ago and found that pins #1, #2, #5, and #6 (when looking down at the keyboard as you normally would, left-to-right, 1-6) had almost no resistance (full current pass-through) (contain ground and probably voltage) while the middle two appeared to have infinite resistance (no connection) (sensor that requires no power?) to any pins, including each other. Not sure what that means. The full results are somewhere if someone wants them.
2 of the pins (think it is 1 and 6 but don't quote me on that) have larger PCB traces, i would assume them to be supply and ground.
If 2 pins are indeed disconnected then it seems that we do just have the 1 i2c bus, supply and ground. Pretty sure the ifixit teardown only said 1 pin disconnected though. But it could just be that it is disconnected further along for some bizarre reason.
Related
Hi,
I am using an application on my HTC Prophet, to connect via IRDA to a bike computer, to download information on rides, routes etc.
Now, I'm looking to update my phone to a Touch Pro or SE X1, but it seems that modern phones no longer have an IRDA port...
Do you know of a way to create an IR connection from the phone, say using the mini-USB port??
For example, for modern laptops that no longer have an IR port, you can buy a USB IR.
Thanks
Paul
Nope. No native IrDA and no USB host functionality, so you can't use the external adapter. With X1 microSD SDIO IrDA adapter can be an option, but I've neer seen one available for sale.
See
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=337641
for a similar discussion.
Thanks Stepw for your comments. It seems a complex topic (some phones - like the X1 don't even have a USB host connection via the mini-usb port). I was in contact with VidaOne to see if they had any ideas (they have a WM software that connects to Polar exercise devices via IR).
Since "nothing" can be done via adding hardware - given the variety of terminals -, they are looking at syncing the exercise files that are downloaded onto the PC from teh exercise device . Not quite as immediate as device -> phone, but a good second best.
I thought I'd bring this to your attention:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10585
http://ytai-mer.blogspot.com/2011/04/meet-ioio-io-for-android.html
It's a breakout board for Android phones that connects via USB.
Here's a list of features it's supposed to have:
48 total I/O pins - all of which can function as digital inputs and outputs.
Up to 16 analog inputs (10-bit).
Up to 9 PWM outputs.
Up to 4 UART channels.
Up to 3 SPI channels.
Up to 3 TWI (I²C-compatible) channels.
On-board switch-mode regulator providing up to 1.5A of 5V supply. Can charge the Android device as well as power a couple of small motors.
Bootloader on the board pulls firmware off phone, enabling OTA firmware upgrades and application-specific firmware.
Pulse-width measurement, capacitance sensing and more (will be pushed with first OTA firmware upgrade).
This shall be awesome.
Nice! You can do the same sort of thing with an Arduino and the phone's serial port or Bluetooth, but this is nice and compact and should be easier to program.
Best of all it will emulate a USB-Host so it should work with any device.
garbz said:
Best of all it will emulate a USB-Host so it should work with any device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, that's the beauty of it.
Sorry 4 the prev thread in wrong section .. then .. One S ( stock rom or another custom rom - with or without Sense ) supporta the usb-host mode ?
I am reasonably sure that out of the box, on stock ROM it does not support the ability to act as an USB host. Additionally, the microUSB on the phone is an USB slave socket, so it would need an adapter to connect a USB slave device to it anyways. (At least I have not yet seen a native USB-Host device with a microUSB socket.)
I am pretty certain it can be hacked into a custom ROM or application, however there are limitations to this. Commonly a device that is designed as USB slave (like the One S) will not be able to power devices through the USB port as regular USB hosts have to.
So IMO, in order to get it to work as an USB host you would need an adapter to connect the devices properly, a modified firmware or specialized app AND a way to externally power the USB slave you want to connect to the One S acting as USB host. The external power might a portable USB charger battery (like the Gumpack) or an Y-cable which is connected to a "real" USB-Host device just for the power (or a car/wall USB charger).
So, theoretically it would be possible, but not very practical. To the best of my knowledge it has not been done in the past because there was no need to. This however might actually change with the current trend towards non-expandable memory on newer phones... if demand rises I bet manufacturers would come up with solutions. Think small USB storage sticks with regular USB plug on one side for use on Notebook/Desktop and a microUSB plug on the other which contain a tiny battery (think Bluetooth headset size) to power the stick while attached to the phone and are charged while connected to a real USB Host port which is designed to deliver juice.
Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Connector_types
Hi,
Saturday I had some time to open the HDMI dock (for Galaxy Tab 7) and mod it to have alternative power input.
After that I was able to use the HDMI output and USB host at same time. The setup is:
- HDMI out for Samsung TV
- wireless USB keyboard
- external HDD connected with a powered HUB
In this setup I was able to use the keyboard and video files from external HDD while watching on TV screen.
The only problem is that the "MTP Application" notification is still there and the tablet is not full powered from external power supply, it discharges slowly the battery.
After some investigation I've seen that on the original charger there seems to be some resistors between USB lines and Vusb and GND. If I connect the original charger (not inserted on power outlet) the tablet is full powered and the MTP Application is not displayed (when I put the tablet in dock). After that if I remove the cable and insert the USB host cable everything is OK and tablet is full powered with USB host and HDMI working.
The docking is powered with 5V/2A PDA DC adapter.
When I'll open the dock again I will make some picture.
Your are welcome for questions and suggestions.
Emil
HOW MUCH?
Cant believe this is my first post on any message board EVER but what better reason! First i would like to know how much would u charge to make the modification for me? I would provide the dock and any other materials that u need of course. Secondly, since the dock works with ALL tab variants(PERSONALLY ONLY TESTED WITH P1000, P7100, P6200, P6210 BUT 99% CERTAIN), u might want to post your development in every other versions forum. I believe this would generate a LOT more interest in this project because there actually has already been a few threads created in which several attempts were made but no one could find the magic combo(plus it could mean a few extra bucks in your billfold!). I waited to post in hopes that u would update with pictures and/or a tutorial but still would rather you perform the actual surgery. Congratulations on accomplishing what samsung should have done from the start...a TRUE multimedia dock! I guess the only suggestion i could offer is if it were possible to actually add a few usb ports into the base of the hdmi dock itself, which is how i feel samsung should have made it originally...definitely not a priority.
Here are a few reference threads if interested & i've already provided a link in each one pointing to your original post for those interested (hope u dont mind!)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1610832
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1155065
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1149442
Sorry, but I can't do this for you.... It's complicated.
Now I work to found a solution to put an USB connector on the dock and to put a power connector to.
The big problem is that the tab enters on MTP mod when powered this way. As described on other threads there is a way with USB lines to activate full external power.
When I'll have a full modification dock I'll put some pictures and instruction for that.
waiting for pics and further info please...
Galaxy Tab Dock modified
Now I have a full functional dock, modified.
So, after receiving the Galaxy Tab Plus media dock from ebay I've found that I can change the tab fixing part with the one on the old Galaxy Tab Dock.
So, now I have old Galaxy Tab multimedia dock full compatible with my Galaxy Tab Plus.
Then I modified the dock to include standard power jack and standard miniusb connector for OTG.
The USB Host is powered from the external power supply, this helps to not discharge the battery when using tab and slow charging.
I made some pictures with details for connections and modification.
You can view at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buzdumil/sets/72157630734690786
There was some work to do...is not very easy. The best thing that can be done is to make a PCB. That PCB, at in my pictures, could be fixed near metal weight. Also there the clips of the case need to be cut, but there is no problem because at same position exist screws for fixing.
The problem with MTP application started when power connected or tab inserted on dock remains. But now is easier to use external HDD, usb keyboard & mouse and television to watch movies.
That's amazing, Emil! That's the dock accessory Samsung should have sold in the first place. After looking over your pictures, I'm ready to go order a soldering iron and get to work!
Hi emil b just letting you know i was playing around with my dock and found how to get rid of the red x from when power is applyd.
First connect power and get red x....
Then disconect the earth and re connect it again..
This forces AC Charge mode...
No resisters or shorting data lines are needed..
So good for being in host mode...
All you need to do is put a on/off switch inline on the earth
Where you supplied power to the dock.
Doesnt need to be inside the dock..
Give it a try and let me know...
Just have to play with it and hit switch a couple of times...
Im looking at all options concerning the modification of this dock. One question that comes to mind is: If I only use the red and blackwires to send power to the USB connector, will I still be able to use the OEM 30 power connector??
OP, I am going to attempt to make this modification myself. Would you be able to provide any additional instructions/suggestions to the pictures up on Flickr?
Thanks,
cypher
mr_esmit said:
Im looking at all options concerning the modification of this dock. One question that comes to mind is: If I only use the red and blackwires to send power to the USB connector, will I still be able to use the OEM 30 power connector??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No because the origonal charger has the resisters on the data lines...
you are better to add just power to pin 7(9) and earth to pin (1)30..
then add a otg dongle..
My CX-919/Measy U2C-D/Belkin Ethernet/USB 2.0 Hub combination: "Frankendongle"
I have been tinkering around with my CX-919/Measy U2C-D dock since I purchased them and wanted to show off my results thus far.
I wanted to add features while keeping the whole system as compact as possible. I also didn't want to block any of the connectors or ports so that I could maintain maximum flexibility and usability in the system.
The CX-919 has its own Micro SD slot and the Measy dock adds an additional full-size SD slot as well.
I would call this system 99% complete, as I'm building a custom cable that will bring power to the USB hub via the micro USB connector on the dock.
I'm using the coaxial power connector next to the micro USB connector with a 2.4-amp adapter for power. The two are hardwired in parallel so by utilizing the micro USB connector for power I can fully power the USB 2.0 Hub.
When the cable is finished the system will be considered "complete".
(I have the pieces here at home. but the "good heat shrink tubing" is at work so I'm waiting in order to make a better looking cable.)
I present for your entertainment: Frankendongle
The system:
*CX-919 Android Mini PC -modified with Finless ROM and copper SOC heatsinks. (A very fast and stable runner)
*Measy U2C-D dock -modified to allow full horizontal rotation and a layer of Velcro for mounting other devices
*Belkin USB-to-Ethernet dongle -modified with Velcro to secure it to the U2C-D dock
*USB 2.0 Hub (make/model unverified -eBay purchase, but any Android-compatible hub that fits the space will do!) -modified with a longer USB cable to allow for use with this system and Velcro to secure it to the U2C-D dock
Top view showing off some of the system's footprint and copper SOC heat sinks.
Front and rear views.
I wanted one free USB port on the rear for use with a USB hard drive.
The dock acts as a USB Hub on its own, and I wanted the Hard Drive and Ethernet adapters to only go through one USB hub for better performance. It's for this reason they are plugged directly into the dock itself and not through the additional USB hub .
Currently the system is being used with an iHome wireless keyboard/mouse for which you see the receiver plugged into the 1st USB port on the hub.
Side view.
This shows the Ethernet connector as well as the USB Hub's coaxial power port.
When completed, the custom power cable plug into this port to fully power the hub and allow for compatibility with the widest array of USB gear.
I use the system as a secondary one for surfing the web and watching videos when I don't want to fire up my big Windows PC. It also works great for retro gaming which I'm fond of.
It's certainly not the prettiest setup, but like I stated earlier it is very compact and works well for it's intended purpose.
strider_mt2k said:
When the cable is finished the system will be considered "complete".
(I have the pieces here at home. but the "good heat shrink tubing" is at work so I'm waiting in order to make a better looking cable.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks neat. Were you able to complete the wiring with the heat shrink tubing? Not that it needs it, but was curious.
Matt
thats loook greating job