so a while back i tried flashing scverhagen's CM9.1, i think around rc8 or 9. i flashed it like 9 times each time never booting, not even to splash if i remember correctly. i tried different kernels, different gapps, different recoveries. i used blue6IX's superwipes, fastboot erase system -w, wiping everything in recovery. checked MD5sum, nothing would work! but each and every other rom i have flashed to this phone has never had an issue, at least a dozen different ones, not a single issue
(oh and im not a noob)
so my phones been down for a month due to a flexcable gone bad and the supplier i choose sent me a defective cable twice (off topic) and today got the new one and said, huh, ill flash CM9.1 R11. this time it boot, stayed on splash for a half hour but booted. normally would have grabbed a logcat here but the lady was on my computer and i was too lazy to go upstairs.
So again, i tried three different TWRP recoveries, 2 CWM recoveries and almost through my phone against the wall.
So yeah nothing worked, flashed another rom, worked fine. I flashed the latest TWRP again and noticed in its logs that cache and data refused to mount (didnt notice this earlier but wasnt really looking) so i flashed another ROM and got the same errors but it booted fine. Checked in ADB shell and no bad blocks found, used ADB to format cache and data, booted back to recovery and tried to flash CM9 again. nothing
now i said ok time to flash bootloader again (im jbear s-off) so i flashed the 1.45.1313 hboot from fastboot, rebooted into recovery (latest CWM by SilverL and what do you know it boots... in like 30 seconds too...
so my question is why? if anyone bothered to read all this that is, why? partitions should have all been fine, same method of flashing as always, not a single thing different, could my bootloader have been corrupt overtime? i mean i flashed the same one over the same one, and i never had an issue other then previously mentioned?
ok i dont know if i expect anyone to answer this, just frustrating when i cant understand something. like it should be simple and obvious right?
...so disappointed cant even enjoy my ROM
Hmmmmm. A corrupted bootloader? How odd that you would come to that conclusion because that's the only thing I could come up with myself. Only mine was a bit different and evidently more deadly a situation.
As you know I've been doing some ports for our phone lately and in the process you go thru many scenarios that just won't boot. No way back to square one without pulling the battery and going back to recovery for a different flash thru Hboot. After working thru 18 or 20 ROMs and probably a couple of hundred flash attempts over time I hit another hangup. I pulled the battery....waited about 15 seconds, reinserted it & proceed to go back to recovery for a reboot of a different setup. Hboot came back up fine like always, volume buttoned down one to recovery & hit the power button to take me there. My phone just sat there for about 10 seconds which scared me in itself because you KNOW that's only about a ONE second operation. Then she went dark as if I'd hit the "power off" selection by accident when I KNEW I didn't. I pulled the battery once again and reinserted it, volume down & power button to bring it back up .....and NOTHING.
That's when I noticed the only response I was getting was the pale red trackpad "light of death". After I quit freaking out enough, I went into System Devices in Windows to see how it was reading my phone and I had the QHSUSB_DLOAD "Screw You" device showing. Needless to say, I now have a brand new DoubleShot which I'm still kind of babying at the time like you usually do after you've killed one. That was my SECOND meltdown. My first was the CWM 6.0.0.0 series of meltdowns that struck many of us.
The only logical thing I have come up with so far is that SOMEHOW my bootloader got corrupted and that's how whatever happened.....happened. That is unless you or someone else might have a better explaination.
SO......don't throw it against the wall, my friend. At least you're still using yours.
Wow, so you've hit that red light of death twice? Were you bear s off both times? Man that's terrible luck! Did you attempt the unbrick mod at all?
I wonder if these phones have the same issue that the g2 and glacier have (as this is just a glacier with a keyboard and nice camera where the made faulty emmcs that would randomly corrupt and leave you with an expensive paperwieght
Just checked mine out, its a MLL0M
Which of course doesn't mean much unless there is a bunch to compare with, if you want to check what you have boot to recovery and run adb shell
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
Running fastboot OEM check_emmc_mid it shows its made by Samsung, who by the way was the maker of the faulty emmc thrown in those others phones....
Eh, I'm sure its nothing but strange things happens with technology, I'm just one of those who like answers!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Thanks for the info Demkantor. I like answers too and just as soon as I have a few extra minutes I'll check that out and give you a much more complete response. (I've always said my parents should have named me Murphy, 'cause if ANYONE can mess something up .....it's ME)! LOL
demkantor said:
Wow, so you've hit that red light of death twice? Were you bear s off both times? Man that's terrible luck! Did you attempt the unbrick mod at all?
I wonder if these phones have the same issue that the g2 and glacier have (as this is just a glacier with a keyboard and nice camera where the made faulty emmcs that would randomly corrupt and leave you with an expensive paperwieght
Just checked mine out, its a MLL0M
Which of course doesn't mean much unless there is a bunch to compare with, if you want to check what you have boot to recovery and run adb shell
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
Running fastboot OEM check_emmc_mid it shows its made by Samsung, who by the way was the maker of the faulty emmc thrown in those others phones....
Eh, I'm sure its nothing but strange things happens with technology, I'm just one of those who like answers!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get this readout for the first command string:
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
<6>[ 4.528226] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 MLL00M 2.25 GiB
For the second, I get:
C:\>fastboot oem check_emmc_mid
... INFOManufacturer ID, MID=15
INFOeMMC should be Samsung
DANG! Not only do they never give us an upgrade they continued to let us use a booby-trapped phone that they know could well "go off" at any time.
Ya know, as well as this DS runs....with the support we've gotten I have no intentions of staying with HTC. Making a lesser phone but actually giving a damn would be a much better thing to say about them!
Well we got the same chip, but I wasn't saying this one is for sure prone to failure, just that Samsung made the chip that was faulty in the other phones, it was a different model number though
There's a lot of things about HTC that I just can't stand, I mean they make (or rather used to make) the phones I want and 99% of the build quality is there, but they refuse to support even their flagship phones, and then make an awesome phone like the double shot and hide it from the public.... I don't feel like going on about them right now, we all have read tons of threads with complaints about HTC
But I really am curious about why this ROM couldn't flash, and why flashing a new hboot seemed to fix it. Also why did to of your phones go bad, somewhat out of the blue? Do you still have them by chance? Want to run some tests?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
OH....I misunderstood. They may have swapped out that lot for one that wasn't borked. OR....they could still be waiting on Samsung for an "OTR UPGRADE"! LOL
Yeah, that first one bit the dust on testing CWM 6.0.0.0 where partition tables got chewed up or at least that's the conclusion we came to anyway. I swapped that one with Tmo for a new one last July. Still under factory warranty.
The one that just died I had to mail back in to ASSurion for the replacement I just got. But it WAS out of the blue even though I've been doing ALOT of flashing. Nowhere NEAR the estimated limit though. Plus it crashed from the bootloader & not from or during a flash which is how I would assume it would do if it was the emmc.
demkantor said:
ok, i got a question...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, demkantor, thanks for the link in xmc's thread.
My hair-pulling ROM was xmc wildchild22's JellyKang. By now, it's at the point that I am no longer interested in the ROM, but I am still interested in why it would not boot with the original kernel, but WOULD boot after flashing scverhagen's kernel from YOUR 9.1 hair-pulling ROM.
I'm a relative noob, so I did not think to check logs (wouldn't know how to interpret them, anyway), or flash another hboot, but I did a lot of searching, reading, and experimenting without getting any closer to an answer.
If you read my post in the JellyKang thread, you know I wiped till I was raw, tried different recoveries, both TWRP and CWM (not CWM 6.0.0.0, thank goodness), triple checked MD5, re-downloaded the MD5 file, just in case...
None of it helped.
It looks like HBOOT may be the problem in my case too. Each phone has a different HBOOT version. I never intentionally flashed hboot on either phone. I can't really remember if that was part of the rooting process. (see HBOOT, below)
It sounds like you have some ideas. Fire away! I've been keeping both phones near me for a while. My wife got fed up with her phone "going missing" all the time, and went back to her previous phone, the G2, until, as she puts it, I "get over it."
Anyway, it feels good that I am not alone in my curiosity--many nights I would yell out "WHY?!" LOL
WeekendsR2Short said:
I get this readout for the first command string:
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
<6>[ 4.528226] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 MLL00M 2.25 GiB
For the second, I get:
C:\>fastboot oem check_emmc_mid
...
INFOManufacturer ID, MID=15
INFOeMMC should be Samsung
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I show almost exactly the same thing as you on both phones:
-- BLACK model DS --
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
<6>[ 2.581846] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 MLL00M 2.25 GiB
fastboot oem check_emmc_mid
...
(bootloader) Manufacturer ID, MID=15
(bootloader) eMMC should be Samsung
-- TAN model DS --
cat /proc/kmsg | grep 'mmc0:0001'
<6>[ 1.927336] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 MLL00M 2.25 GiB
fastboot oem check_emmc_mid
...
(bootloader) Manufacturer ID, MID=15
(bootloader) eMMC should be Samsung
--- HBOOT ---
The only difference I've found between the phones, so far, are:
1. different model numbers (probably just the color)
2. different hboot -- TAN: HBOOT-1.45.0013; BLACK: HBOOT-1.44.1107
3. at the bootloader screen, the BLACK one says "Revolutionary" and the TAN one says "UNLOCKED" (I used the HTC boot unlocker on the tan one)
I'm enough of a noob that I wouldn't even have thought of comparing hboot versions if it hadn't been for demkantor's comments.
Like both of you, I keep railing against HTC to the point that even my dogs look at me funny. But, somehow, I keep buying their stuff. My son just got a Galaxy (I think it's the S2, but may be the S3--huge screen!) and it has some great stuff, but I'll stick to my doubleshot, thank you.
hmm, i think we should change them, if your willing jbear s-off is the way to go.
out of curiosity are you s-on or s-off on the .0013 phone
im under the impression there is s-on and s-off for that bootloader but the .1107 can only be s-off
demkantor said:
hmm, i think we should change them, if your willing jbear s-off is the way to go.
out of curiosity are you s-on or s-off on the .0013 phone
im under the impression there is s-on and s-off for that bootloader but the .1107 can only be s-off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both are S-OFF using different methods (don't remember more, right now).
I'm, planning to flash a new hboot on the problem phone (the TAN one) to see if that's it, but I'm too sleepy to think clearly. That phone has the newer hboot, so I would think the other one should be the problem...
---------- Post added at 12:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 AM ----------
WeekendsR2Short said:
... the pale red trackpad "light of death"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OUCH!!!
WeekendsR2Short said:
... That was my SECOND meltdown....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DOUBLE OUCH!!!
And there I was, whining just cause I couldn't flash another ROM!
OT: I keep trying out the wealth of ROMs that have come our way recently (kid-in-a-candy-store syndrome), but keep going back to Black Dahlia as my DD--thanks.
wow...
so it happened to me a few weeks back, turned on my double shot and nothing.... then plugged it in thinking the battery may be dead. got the vibrations and blinking red led and constant off then on, off then on. tried a different battery charged via external charger, same. tried different pcs, different cables, different button combos, nothing...
said nuts to this and tossed it aside. tried again a week later... same event...
tried tonight after a week of sitting around with no battery, sim or sd card in, poped in battery and it works like day one.
powered of and poped in sim and sd, all is good.
tried a last_kmsg with nothing worthwhile. not sure if this device is doomed to fail, not sure the cause, its just random hardware faults really get on my nerves...
just venting yall...
So, my original doubleshot I got on launch ended up having a light under the keyboard die after a handful of months. Sent it back to HTC and they fixed the light, thankfully just the light and didn't mess with the memory or anything. I got it back with a working light and s-off.
Fast forward about the same amount of time again, and one night I have netflix running through the tv-out cable to the tv in the room. I wasn't paying it much mind as others were watching ... until it suddenly stopped.
Variety of batteries later that work fine in my other doubleshot to no effect. I haven't had the chance to look too far into it, but with the overclocking experiments I did with it smart money would be on a dead processor.
I ran it pretty consistently at 1.7, that's where it really did shine. As a power user directing every lick of performance I can muster into the timely execution of the tasks at hand ... the times I bumped it back down to 1.2 or 1.5 due to non-use were infrequent.
I also am the curious sort and wanted to see what it could do, really take it for a spin. I had it at some ridiculous levels of speed just to see.
It also happens to be sitting right here next to me. Well, both of them. Once I learned that development is so much easier with two target devices to work with, I at least had a 'back up'.
Now I have one working and one non, but I wouldn't try to file an insurance claim on something likely my own fault. Nevermind the fact that this very instance is what one of the big sticking points in relenting on blocking all handset owners categorically from access to doing that.
I may (probably) or may not have fried the processor, but either way the onus is on me to determine that first due to the way I used - and in part deliberately abused - the device.
Honestly, I am content with the doubleshot I have. From another developer here it's an original rev s-off device, in silver. I put my black backplate on it and a privacy screen protector so the face is solid, unbroken black (no logo) framed in silver. I still use it often for photography, and as a wireless bridge for my devices and printer.
Not much more anymore though i'm afraid. I half-moved into the S3, hated every minute of it despite some of the things I liked about it, then ended up in a note 2. The S3 prepped me for the size of the note 2. Ghastly as it is, it fits a utility purpose of my life so perfectly I can't not have it. Not really a subject for this neck of the woods.
i too have moved on from the doubleshot, well hardly ever used it really, it was the ol ladies and just got it for her being she always wanted a phone with an awesome camera.
she then got the nexus four from me and i stole the doubleshot back. after craking the screen on her n4 i decided to commandeer that and got her a lumia 720 (finally realized android isnt for everyone no matter how much i want it to be)
well she broke that too... ugg... another 100 some dollars later shes back to being happier than ever with her windows phone... oh well.... back to subject
so wifi is not working, three roms and a thousand wipes later still no good. i think i have some serious hardware faults here... damn
also noticed that my bootloader has very few fastboot commands available, just these:
(bootloader) command list
(bootloader) get_identifier_token
(bootloader) checkSbl1
(bootloader) checkHWSecurity
(bootloader) keytest
(bootloader) heap
(bootloader) boot
(bootloader) reset
(bootloader) powerdown
(bootloader) rebootRUU
(bootloader) heap_test
(bootloader) gotohboot
(bootloader) rtask
(bootloader) task
(bootloader) enableqxdm
(bootloader) gencheckpt
(bootloader) readpid
(bootloader) writepid
(bootloader) readcid
(bootloader) writecid
(bootloader) readimei
(bootloader) writeimei
(bootloader) readsecureflag
(bootloader) writesecureflag
(bootloader) lock
(bootloader) list_partition_emmc
(bootloader) load_emmc
(bootloader) check_emmc
(bootloader) check_emmc_mid
(bootloader) read_mmc
(bootloader) load_modem_emmc
(bootloader) get_wp_info_emmc
(bootloader) send_wp_info_emmc
(bootloader) get_ext_csd_emmc
(bootloader) get_sector_info_emmc
finished. total time: 0.013s
OKAY [ 0.043s]
finished. total time: 0.045s
besides the usual, means no bad block tests etc... damn bootloader...
@Blue6IX , being you have rev-soff and i jbear, mind doing a quick test
fastboot oem ?
is your list of available commands larger or different?
anyway maybe ill grab a new board, oh and can you see what emmc and processor you have?
mine is
MLL00M
version-microp: 0353
just looking for some comparisons here, thanks!
I don't have to check, because I already know they are the same.
We didn't get an engineering bootloader, but what we did get (due to some brave exploring by someone here) is the ability to flash the sensation engineering bootloader for the commands you are looking for.
I forget which thread it was in but the answer is here if that is what you need.
Edit:
Booted to bootloader menu, looking at 0353 as well on microprocessor. Not that it matters but i'm running the 1.44.0007 hboot.
Thanks, I may look into stealing that engineering bootloader as I prefer having full debuuging tools handy with fastboot.
I know some of the microprocessors carried on the nexus1 and some had issues so was just curious as my phone seems to have issues what others have.
There's been a few unexplained bricks in these threads so I'm just looking to see if different variants had different issues
But yeah thanks for checking!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Related
I've been flashing different roms for awhile, and decided to go from OpenEclair to one of the "new" ones that requires the new SPL and radio. Went fine. No problem. Used the new rom for about a week, but really got screwed by a massive bug I found in it today, so I wanted to go back to my OE nandroid backup.
I went to reflash to my original SPL. It was a ZIP, so I treated it like a ROM and used AmonRa's recovery to flash it. Said it went fine. Rebooted, expecting to get back into fastboot and flash my radio.
I can't get into fastboot. All it does is show Rogers then HTC Magic in a boot loop. ADB devices shows nothing, fastboot devices shows nothing. Back and Power doesn't work. Home back and power doesn't work. Vol down doesn't work.
Am I as bricked as I think I am?
Yes, it sounds bricked. The proper method to go from 6.x --> 3.x radios and matching SPL is to use fastboot. You have to flash radio and SPLs in matching pairs, you can only use the update.zip format for SPL when it already matches your radio (ie. 1.33.2005 ---> 1.33.2010 w/ the 3.22.20.17 radio).
I believe you should normally flash radios first as well. If you don't get it fixed id like to buy it, need parts. Anyways, most the time when you can't get into fastboot or anything else, it is bricked. Best bet is to get warranty if you still have it. Unfortunately the new phones won't be rootable yet
its best to follow guides when downgrading/upgrading spl/radio (cursordroids for example) when not knowing completely what your doing.. sorry my friend.. sounds like your phone is now a boat anchor
i flashed a 1.33.2010 SPL with a 3.?? radio and now all i get is the logo screen no fast boot, i can enter debug mode (action button) but nothing else sounds like its bricked, but hey its been fun
to be honest i was in this situation last week after leaving my phone off for a hour fastboot was working
oh this is sounding more promising, see what happens when i get home, i see there have been a few people about that have been in the same situation and got out of it so fingers crossed
unfortunantly none of the above worked, wow after 10 years of flashing **** i finally killed something !!.... mind you i still have to make up the serial cable this weekend and see if i can fix it like that
Oh well, you guys should know better ... radio/spl/recovery upgrade/downgrade is a child play, if you do it with fastboot and in the correct order (radio - spl - recovery).
I just hope you can get your Magic back to life.
yeah i was a little distracted at the time, never mind, im going to boot into the radio bootloader and see if i can fix it this weekend, fingers crossed
ruimoura said:
Oh well, you guys should know better ... radio/spl/recovery upgrade/downgrade is a child play, if you do it with fastboot and in the correct order (radio - spl - recovery).
I just hope you can get your Magic back to life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have flashed not in that order and never bricked and also i have flash different things like radios in different orders and no brick
Just a (long) update on trying to get the phone repaired...
First thanks to bcrook, KAwAtA and digitaljeff for the prompt replies at confirming my screw up.
Ruimoura, why even post? Nothing helpful, and not even commiserating. "Oh well, you guys should know better ...". I hope someone is there when you make a mistake to rub it in.
Anyway...
This was a Rogers Magic used in the states on AT&T.
Heres what happened if anyone is interested:
I searched the forums and tried every trick I could find, including the gold card method; no luck. To be honest, I'm not sure I did the gold card right, but I tried my best. I even looked into the jtag idea, but it seems like more work then its worth to me, and no one seems to have been successful with it yet.
I then called HTC to find out what a repair would cost. HTC said they don't have that phone in their parts list and can't service it because it is a Rogers phone and they don't work with Rogers. They told me I would have to call Rogers for service.
Called Rogers and explained the situation (carefully; blaming the 911 update ). Rogers lectured me on how dare I take their phone off their network, and that they have no interest in helping me at all and "contacting HTC is easy. Whats wrong with you?". I explained that I contacted HTC and they said to contact Rogers. They said (after some fighting) call this number and then gave me the same number HTC has on their website.
Called HTC again and explained the situation. After checking their parts database, the person I was talking to this time confirmed what the person I previously talked to said. HTC doesn't service the Rogers Magic but he felt, like I, that was kinda crazy and called the repair location directly to confirm. After a bit of time on hold, he came back and said that Rogers phones are serviced through a place called FutureTel in canada, and gave me their contact number.
I called FutureTel and it was a very short conversation. "What store are you calling from?" I Explained I wasn't calling from a store and why I was calling. "We only work with Rogers directly. We won't support you." and they hung up.
I have to say, both times I called HTC the people I talked to were incredibly polite and honestly seemed like they wanted to help. Rogers and FutureTel seemed like they truly resented having to pick up the phone. Maybe its a cultural thing I'm not aware of, but it honestly seemed, from the first word, that they hated talking to me.
So, as near as I can tell, you can't even pay someone to fix a Rogers HTC Magic.
At this point I'm back suffering on my old WinMo phone and desperately hoping that the rumored March 23 release date for the Verizon Nexus One is legitimate since T-Mobile isn't really an option.
How I bricked my Desire S - information on avoiding brick and an indictment of the dubious nature of HTC's S-on policy
The Desire S is a great phone so why did I want to root it?
The main reasons for rooting and s-off for me were:
Titanium backup (android built in backup is weak)
Being able to remove bloatware that takes up unnecessary spaces and unnecessarily reduces battery performance.
To try different ROMs from the community
Video screen capture
And of course I bought the phone so isn't it mine to use as I please.
Having waited a long time for a good s-off tool to come out I was getting more and more anxious to s-off.
Alpharev got together with Unrevoked to create Revolutionary.
I had previously used the Unrevoked tool to root my first generation Desire. The tool worked easily and flawlessly even on my Mac.
I later used the Alpharev bootable CD to s-off and root a later generation Desire. Again it worked smoothly and flawlessly.
Having had this positive experience I felt confident in the new tool, Revolutionary.
I read everything I could find about how the tool worked and how others were finding results. All seemed straight forward and uncomplicated so I proceeded to download and run the tool from my PC because there was no Mac version available.
Temp root and s-off went smoothly. No apparent issuse. Both Hboot and Fastboot had been successfully replaced on the phone, and CWM recovery was working.
So I added su in recovery then ran a nand backup of the whole system at this point.
Then I downloaded a Cyan 7 ported for the Desire S that was getting good reviews and feedback. The rom seemed to flash clean. After running it for a short time it stated crashing, so I decided to try an MIUI ported to Desire S. Again a ROM with good feedback and labeled as stable.
Downloaded the ROM and flashed it after a full wipe in recovery.
This time on reboot the phone hung at the HTC screen on boot for a very long time. So I wanted to do a force shutdown.
Here is where things got ugly.
The Desire S does not have a force shutdown keystroke combo as my old Desire did. So I opted to pull the battery.
Reinserting the battery and booting into recovery nothing worked properly.
CWM wouldn't mount its partitions, wouldn't flash a rom or even do a factory reset.
I tried doing some functions in fastboot mode. But nothing worked. Any command issued in fastboot mode would just lock up the phone and terminal.
At this point I was pretty worried so I got on #revolutionary and chatted with some of the big guns. I got some good feedback to test this and try that but in the end nothing worked. So I got on XDA forum and looked for others with similar issues.
What I found at this point was very troubling.
XDA user opumps had the same issue as me and had done some great research about the problem.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1150917
It becomes clear on reading, that like him, my Desire S had a fried eMMC chip. This is the internal storage device for HBoot. Once cooked your are basically F*ucked. There is no recovering from this by reformatting the eMMC. Pooched.
Doing the tests on the XDA post I found my eMMC to be pooched.
Now the question is, What fried the eMMc? Was it the S=off process or the forced pulling of the battery while the phone was boot locked?
I then took the phone to HTCs warranty center.
They tested the phone and called me back a few hours later. Your eMMC chip is fried they said. Yes, I said, Can you fix it please?
He told me that the eMMc was fried by the s-off tool I had used. Now, maybe he is full of **** and just wants an excuse to void my warranty. And, maybe not.
I told him to go ahead and fix it. He told me it would be a $200 Dollar replacement of the main board. ****. Well, what other choice do I have. Do it, I told him.
Next I got on the phone with the HTC help center. I got friendly with the lady technician on the call. After some nice chat I started probing for information on the Desire S. After a long conversation She told me that the Desire S, Incredible S, Desire HD all have the problem of frying the eMMC chip if the battery is disconnected while power is on. She said she gets calls every day with people who have fried their eMMC chip. Not through S-off but just because the battery came loose and lost contact while the phone was on or charging. The main reasons for the issue are as follows, HTC cheaped out on the eMMC chips in these phones, as the issue is specific to a particular series of eMMc. And because of a design flaw in the way the battery door closes, and because HTC did not include a force shutdown key combination to shut the phone off properly when locked.
So in the end it sounds like a lot of bad design and bad planning and poor foresight on HTC's part led to the fried eMMC on my phone. But they are not willing to stand behind their product and found an excuse to void my warranty and make me pay for the replacement Mainboard.
Now, here is where we get into the debate of should anyone s-off their phone? The main point here is no one should have to s-off. The phones should never be shipped s-on. It's bad policy to lock the bootloader. But having received an s-on phone you may very well want to s-off. If you decide to s-off just remember that you could easily brick your phone by many ways not related to s-off and your warranty will be void.
Another option is to not buy HTC because of the design flaws and their bad locked bootloader policy. To unlock and root a Samsung all you have to do is issue the command fastboot oem unlock. I don't know if Samsung phones also have the eMMc chip issue, so I can't comment there. But I certainly prefer their open policy on bootloaders.
Maybe the whole reason for locked bootloaders from HTC is beacause they are aware that they used sub par eMMc chips and are trying to reduce bricks.
Regardless this experience has made me very dubious of HTC in general.
I hope this is helpful and educational.
Thanks for sharing, I removed my battery a couple of times while stuck in htc logo screen. Don't think I'll try that move again, anyway I read about holding power + vol up + vol down to force shutdown, wondering whether that works...
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
monkey21stc said:
Thanks for sharing, I removed my battery a couple of times while stuck in htc logo screen. Don't think I'll try that move again, anyway I read about holding power + vol up + vol down to force shutdown, wondering whether that works...
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, thanks for warning.sorry to hear your struggle, disappointed that htc use this tactic, will certainly reconsider buying an alternate make device next time of this issue persists
The volume up plus volume down plus power button combination does work, it's just but published
Very often, although have yet trio try out when the devices has hung, but certainly reboots my device .
Swyped from HTC Desire S using XDA Premium
just fyi in germay they take 184 € to repair a bricked eMMc :-(
Aye, Thanks for Sharing. I'v hade the same problem as you. I'll never buy an HTC phone again. Cheap bastards!
i need to know that every chip is different...bad for u that u got the bad one but i flash phone daily and its ok..i have same procedure every time i do that..to brick phone can happen to experts too...well if u want to risk to get root and all goodies u can say good bay to warranty..thats for sure
thanks for sharing man.
monkey21stc said:
Thanks for sharing, I removed my battery a couple of times while stuck in htc logo screen. Don't think I'll try that move again, anyway I read about holding power + vol up + vol down to force shutdown, wondering whether that works...
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that works on miui
Buy a htc with simlock.
Mine is t-mobile
When I've started my device for the first time, is was already s-off because if I turn my phone on it will show the t-mobile logo
So u can't brick your phone if you will s-off
But thanks for sharing
Next time I won't buy a htc
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA Premium App
Just remember though flash memory is extremely volatile, and ripping a battery out of a phone generally isn't a good idea to begin with, although I was lucky to read about the vol up/down + power procedure before I rooted my phone.
Very interesting post, interesting to see the bigger picture behind this issue.
so here's the deal - I am 99.9% sure that the bricked eMMC chip is a problem only in devices with a chip that was faulty in the first place. When the phone first came out, there were MANY threads on the hardware faults like "Battery cover not fitting" and "Misaligned screen". This was an issue that could't be identified easily, so it wasn't reported. Now, many people are having this issue and instead of panicking, we should do some research. I think that all the guys who bricked their phone would be living close to each other, in the same country or at least the same continent ie, this is a local issue. Also, i'm sure they had one of the other issues i mentioned above. I've not seen anyone in India or Asia with any such issues, so i think we need to find out why europe is having problems. Contact the BRICKees, i'll try making a new thread.
^^^.. yes this issue you need to find the Source.. I sold my Desire yestreday to get Hold of the Desire S but my only concern is this Dead eMMC chip.. and that is the reason I am not buying it yet... I want to identofy the ones with this issue..
really I dont want to screw up my 40K Rs on a faulty set..
Got the same problem, accidentally bricked a DS with a faulty Samsung eMMC, barely 3 weeks after buying it and 2 weeks after S/OFF'ing and rooting it... (btw, isn't it strange that Samsung chips that you find in Samsung branded phones don't seem to have this problem, but strangely the chips sold to their competitors seem to always be somehow sub-par ? Clever and sneaky way to undermine the competition, if you ask me. But at the same time, I bought a SGS2 as replacement in the meantime. ^^ even though it heats up a bit, it's way better than the DS )...
Haven't RMA'd the DS yet, I'm trying my damnedest to find a way to S-ON again and trash the remainder of the partition table -so the service center won't gimme **** about it.. So far I've been able to revert back from Alpharev SOFF to PVT ENG SOFF (0.98.2000), but even this has been horribly hard to achieve.. The "secret fastboot command" to totally brick a NAND didn't work, of course. Had to do it all by hand, in the dead of night, losing many hours of sleep in the process.. :/
It's really shameful that HTC is using such deviant ways to cover their own ****ups and to shirk the payment of their dues.. So I really got no qualms about trying to con them into replacing the device under warranty either. "tit for tat", or so they say.. And they shouldn't be surprised if I never ever again buy a phone from them either, that's really bad PR if y'ask me...
PS : I just got one of those mischievous ideas that often occur to me during sleepless nights : I've read here and there about how dangerous flashing a radio is, and it should only be done if necessary, yadda-yadda-yadda... (heck, I was at my 4th radio flash -just for the fun of it, didn't even have any reception or battery problems to justify it- when I bricked my DS, and I can tell y'all that it wasn't what ****ed it up :S)
Let's just imagine -that's a hypothesis, of course- that I attempted flashing a new radio, and one of my cats "accidentally" jumped on the desk and ripped the usb cord away from the phone, making it drop down on the floor, dislodging the battery in the process.. Wouldn't this brick it nice and proper, and render the NAND totally unreadable even for a HTC service center ? xD
I guess they got a XTC device at hand, but would that help in such a case ?
Can someone confirm what exactly is meant by pressing Power and Volume + and - at the same time? Press Power and press both ends of the volume rocker switch at once? Is that it?
first press the two volume buttons and then power until it shuts down.
worked for me at least -I just learned about that trick a trifle too late
your story said that it includes desire HD? wow i didn't know that honestly when my old DHD freezed i always pull the battery out and no problems at all it's just that the constant carmode problem irritated me and ended up selling it and bought a Desire S...not yet rooted and S-Off but will do later...so it's not the S-off process it's the battery thingy...it sucks for that to happen
Thanks for guide. I'm really scare of eMMC chip problems. I never tried to S-OFF coz of eMMC chip problems. Don't wanna to make void the warranty
Thanks for sharing! I have removed my battery a few times already to force shutdown. Don't know if I'll ever try it again. Maybe as a last resort, but at least I know the risks now. Thanks again!
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
Cool thanks for Sharring
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
i work my whole life with pc, hardware, software, flashed everything from set-top boxes to mobile phones.
seriously, i can't believe that anybody can fry the eMMC (a ****ing simple NAND-based flash memory) cause he puts SOFTWARE on it - thats what it build for!!!
you can brick your phone if you destroy the bootloader or something without a possibility to fix it, this won't destroy any hardware on your phone - but thats a different story.
the only reason for s-on is to take you the chance to deinstall the bloatware which they pollute their devices.
apairofscissors said:
How I bricked my Desire S - information on avoiding brick and an indictment of the dubious nature of HTC's S-on policy
The Desire S is a great phone so why did I want to root it?
The main reasons for rooting and s-off for me were:
Titanium backup (android built in backup is weak)
Being able to remove bloatware that takes up unnecessary spaces and unnecessarily reduces battery performance.
To try different ROMs from the community
Video screen capture
And of course I bought the phone so isn't it mine to use as I please.
Having waited a long time for a good s-off tool to come out I was getting more and more anxious to s-off.
Alpharev got together with Unrevoked to create Revolutionary.
I had previously used the Unrevoked tool to root my first generation Desire. The tool worked easily and flawlessly even on my Mac.
I later used the Alpharev bootable CD to s-off and root a later generation Desire. Again it worked smoothly and flawlessly.
Having had this positive experience I felt confident in the new tool, Revolutionary.
I read everything I could find about how the tool worked and how others were finding results. All seemed straight forward and uncomplicated so I proceeded to download and run the tool from my PC because there was no Mac version available.
Temp root and s-off went smoothly. No apparent issuse. Both Hboot and Fastboot had been successfully replaced on the phone, and CWM recovery was working.
So I added su in recovery then ran a nand backup of the whole system at this point.
Then I downloaded a Cyan 7 ported for the Desire S that was getting good reviews and feedback. The rom seemed to flash clean. After running it for a short time it stated crashing, so I decided to try an MIUI ported to Desire S. Again a ROM with good feedback and labeled as stable.
Downloaded the ROM and flashed it after a full wipe in recovery.
This time on reboot the phone hung at the HTC screen on boot for a very long time. So I wanted to do a force shutdown.
Here is where things got ugly.
The Desire S does not have a force shutdown keystroke combo as my old Desire did. So I opted to pull the battery.
Reinserting the battery and booting into recovery nothing worked properly.
CWM wouldn't mount its partitions, wouldn't flash a rom or even do a factory reset.
I tried doing some functions in fastboot mode. But nothing worked. Any command issued in fastboot mode would just lock up the phone and terminal.
At this point I was pretty worried so I got on #revolutionary and chatted with some of the big guns. I got some good feedback to test this and try that but in the end nothing worked. So I got on XDA forum and looked for others with similar issues.
What I found at this point was very troubling.
XDA user opumps had the same issue as me and had done some great research about the problem.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1150917
It becomes clear on reading, that like him, my Desire S had a fried eMMC chip. This is the internal storage device for HBoot. Once cooked your are basically F*ucked. There is no recovering from this by reformatting the eMMC. Pooched.
Doing the tests on the XDA post I found my eMMC to be pooched.
Now the question is, What fried the eMMc? Was it the S=off process or the forced pulling of the battery while the phone was boot locked?
I then took the phone to HTCs warranty center.
They tested the phone and called me back a few hours later. Your eMMC chip is fried they said. Yes, I said, Can you fix it please?
He told me that the eMMc was fried by the s-off tool I had used. Now, maybe he is full of **** and just wants an excuse to void my warranty. And, maybe not.
I told him to go ahead and fix it. He told me it would be a $200 Dollar replacement of the main board. ****. Well, what other choice do I have. Do it, I told him.
Next I got on the phone with the HTC help center. I got friendly with the lady technician on the call. After some nice chat I started probing for information on the Desire S. After a long conversation She told me that the Desire S, Incredible S, Desire HD all have the problem of frying the eMMC chip if the battery is disconnected while power is on. She said she gets calls every day with people who have fried their eMMC chip. Not through S-off but just because the battery came loose and lost contact while the phone was on or charging. The main reasons for the issue are as follows, HTC cheaped out on the eMMC chips in these phones, as the issue is specific to a particular series of eMMc. And because of a design flaw in the way the battery door closes, and because HTC did not include a force shutdown key combination to shut the phone off properly when locked.
So in the end it sounds like a lot of bad design and bad planning and poor foresight on HTC's part led to the fried eMMC on my phone. But they are not willing to stand behind their product and found an excuse to void my warranty and make me pay for the replacement Mainboard.
Now, here is where we get into the debate of should anyone s-off their phone? The main point here is no one should have to s-off. The phones should never be shipped s-on. It's bad policy to lock the bootloader. But having received an s-on phone you may very well want to s-off. If you decide to s-off just remember that you could easily brick your phone by many ways not related to s-off and your warranty will be void.
Another option is to not buy HTC because of the design flaws and their bad locked bootloader policy. To unlock and root a Samsung all you have to do is issue the command fastboot oem unlock. I don't know if Samsung phones also have the eMMc chip issue, so I can't comment there. But I certainly prefer their open policy on bootloaders.
Maybe the whole reason for locked bootloaders from HTC is beacause they are aware that they used sub par eMMc chips and are trying to reduce bricks.
Regardless this experience has made me very dubious of HTC in general.
I hope this is helpful and educational.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please change the title of the thread to "how not to brick your desire s". The current one sounds really fun and why any one would want a guide to brick their phone.
Sent from Desire Aj'S using XDA eXtra Premium App!
My wife installed some updates in the market and her phone froze on the Sense home screen. Removed the battery, and it now won't boot past the HTC logo.
It is on the factory/default Sense ROM, never rooted or anything, my wife has like 5 apps on it and still the stock Sense wallpaper
It can boot into HBOOT, we tried the recovery option which showed the black screen with phone+green arrow animation for a few seconds. Then very shortly an image with a red arrow, then a reboot and still stuck on the HTC boot screen.
It does not show up in ADB, USB debugging is not on either.
My next thing to try would be a factory reset, is that likely to work?
Is there any way to get SMS'es and some game save games off the phone before resetting it?
Thanks for all suggestions!
Well if your PC is not recognizing the phone, then there's not much you can try I guess (other then factory reset.) Maybe someone is gonna come up with something.
Aren't the gamesaves on your sd card?
There have been hardware issues associated with multiple downloads from the market and pulling the battery. This might or might not be the case. However you are covered with warranty in case it is.
Sent from my HTC Desire S using XDA App
esbenm said:
My wife installed some updates in the market and her phone froze on the Sense home screen. Removed the battery, and it now won't boot past the HTC logo.
It is on the factory/default Sense ROM, never rooted or anything, my wife has like 5 apps on it and still the stock Sense wallpaper
It can boot into HBOOT, we tried the recovery option which showed the black screen with phone+green arrow animation for a few seconds. Then very shortly an image with a red arrow, then a reboot and still stuck on the HTC boot screen.
It does not show up in ADB, USB debugging is not on either.
My next thing to try would be a factory reset, is that likely to work?
Is there any way to get SMS'es and some game save games off the phone before resetting it?
Thanks for all suggestions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If she created a HTC Sense account and had set it up to sync then her texts would have been saved online.
If no other options download the corresponding to your region RUU (ROM Update Utility) from here. Then reboot to Bootloader (VOL DOWN + POWER Button). Make sure that you have HTC Sync installed. Go to fastboot screen (you should see FASTBOOT USB line). Start RUU.exe. It will handle everything automatically and hopefully you will have a brand new Stock system again.
If hard resetting dies not work, I'm afraid you may have a fries eMMC chip! It's very common when the phone freezes in maker updates and you pull the battery!
olyloh6696 said:
If hard resetting dies not work, I'm afraid you may have a fries eMMC chip! It's very common when the phone freezes in maker updates and you pull the battery!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to be offensive but stop with this crap it only scares people. I have rescued my phone twice already from the bootloop. The fried eMMC is the last consideration to be made after trying some reasonable solutions.
An boot loop isn't
an real indicator for fried emmc, most of the times you just somehow messed up part of the software or the partitions, this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1292730 it's an really fried emmc.
Let's try some solutions before destroying any hope!
Swyped from my Desire S
amidabuddha said:
Sorry to be offensive but stop with this crap it only scares people. I have rescued my phone twice already from the bootloop. The fried eMMC is the last consideration to be made after trying some reasonable solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not starting with 'crap' I'm simply saying what might be true.
It is well known that after hitting update all in the market, it leads to a fried emmc chip.
I have also been stuck on a bootloop many times (after flashing wrong kernels etc) and had to pull the battery. I also risked a fried emmc chip. I was just lucky I didn't get it fried, and I hope it doesn't happen again! *touch wood*
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
esbenm said:
My wife installed some updates in the market and her phone froze on the Sense home screen. Removed the battery, and it now won't boot past the HTC logo.
It is on the factory/default Sense ROM, never rooted or anything, my wife has like 5 apps on it and still the stock Sense wallpaper
It can boot into HBOOT, we tried the recovery option which showed the black screen with phone+green arrow animation for a few seconds. Then very shortly an image with a red arrow, then a reboot and still stuck on the HTC boot screen.
It does not show up in ADB, USB debugging is not on either.
My next thing to try would be a factory reset, is that likely to work?
Is there any way to get SMS'es and some game save games off the phone before resetting it?
Thanks for all suggestions!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, have you tried hard reset/factory reset. let us know what happen than. next time never pull out battery when your phone freeze. just press vol up + vol down + power button (all three hardware button) and the phone will restart. I personally had this problem few times and able to recover my device. start with hard reset your phone.
look at ben_pyett signature. you need the adb+fastboot and htc drivers for your windows pc to detect your device. I'm using linux and I don't need those drivers.
olyloh6696 said:
I'm not starting with 'crap' I'm simply saying what might be true.
It is well known that after hitting update all in the market, it leads to a fried emmc chip.
I have also been stuck on a bootloop many times (after flashing wrong kernels etc) and had to pull the battery. I also risked a fried emmc chip. I was just lucky I didn't get it fried, and I hope it doesn't happen again! *touch wood*
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok to be more specific: I have already rescued my phone from a bootloop with all the indications for a "fried eMMC" described in some threads in this forum. Also me and Tectas assisted several people accross the forum these days to revive their phones from the "fried eMMC" (some successful, some not). Anyway all of these users had the info that they eMMC is fried and were terrified. But a Bricked and Fried phone are totally different stuff. So if you post to help is OK, but when you post to scare this isn't.
Update: thanks for all the suggestions. I couldn't get any of it to work, including factory reset.
We are going to send the phone in for a warranty repair, most of her personal stuff is on her Google account or the SD card, so no major problems.
The HTC Sense website with SMS backup never worked for her, there is no option to log in from the phone.
As much as i love Android I am shocked that hitting "update all" in the market and/or pulling the battery can brick a 400 $ phone. Even buggy old Windows ME was fine if you pulled the pover cord.
My iPhone friends will laugh at me well into 2012 if I tell them this.
Do HTC have more faults than other brands? Both our Desires have had trouble. I am about to upgrade mine, maybe should look at another brand?
There is some hope!
amidabuddha said:
Ok to be more specific: I have already rescued my phone from a bootloop with all the indications for a "fried eMMC" described in some threads in this forum. Also me and Tectas assisted several people accross the forum these days to revive their phones from the "fried eMMC" (some successful, some not). Anyway all of these users had the info that they eMMC is fried and were terrified. But a Bricked and Fried phone are totally different stuff. So if you post to help is OK, but when you post to scare this isn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I'm afraid that I must agree.
In the early days of this problem, I too was probably guilty of announcing too early to users "that's you've fried your eMMC chip - that's a warranty return" where as over time we've now come to believe that this still a chance of hope, albeit not great or guaranteed, but none the less, fortunately several people have managed to recover from this situation, by a variety of means.
So even though the possible outcome might not be likely, I think that we should attempt to always suggest that there might be hope at least until we've tried all the possible solutions and now luckily the various users have compiled guides of the suggested options so this isn't that difficult.
The only time when I'd suggest that a user should probably instantly return a device, is if they are completely non technical or have a brand new device which is still S-ON. In which case they may as well return the device under warranty and get a replacement device or motherboard which will at least contain the non dubious/faulty chip, and will remove the possibility of future occurrence completely - so they'll actually be better off for the future!
esbenm said:
Update: thanks for all the suggestions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to hear this. You were just unfortunate and what happened to you is rare, also it's not a fault of Android but, a HTC eMMC chip hardware issue caused by a particular dodgy version of the eMMC chip that comes on some of these phones.
I believe that HTC realised the fault and replaced the chip with another make after a fashion. So hopefully you'll get the different chip on your replacement device/motherboard.
I also think that they've changed the market application so that it downloads one application after rather than all the applications together, which was known to cause a device freeze, which often was followed by a battery user battery pull - which then led to this problem.
Next time... Never pull the battery! there are always other options.
Take care and good luck.
I think I bricked my phone, but wanted to check here first. Needed to send device back for warranty service, but may have just hosed myself. Was running new ICS FW 3.24 and testing ARHD & IC ROMS without issue.
I set my CID back to T-MOB010 as device was originally with ADB. Rebooted into bootloader and verified the updated CID was shown and it was.
Now this is where I think I choked....
I meant to flash RUU to take back to stock, but got my steps mixed up and did the fastboot command to put S-On back onto the device. Now the damn thing won't even boot up....black and no signs of life. My PC can no longer see it either.
Any suggestions or should I give up hope because of hat one mis-step?!?
I know you have probably done all this but heres what I would do. I would take the battery out then put it back in then hold volume down and power on and see if hboot will turn on. If hboot won't turn on your bricked. sorry dude. Also if you would have ran a stock RUU it would have s-on your phone as it would have flashed stock hboot I believe.
Any suggestions or should I give up hope because of hat one mis-step?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry i think your only chance is Warranty !!
If your provider is tmobile I have a fun fact for ya. There going to ask you 3 questions after they waste an 30 minutes of your time trying to trouble shoot "it just won't turn on". They ask you, is it in one piece(yes)? Is there any physical damage(no)? Are the water indicators white(yes)? Is the battery damaged(no)? If you answer correctly they'll send you out a new phone right then and there. If you lie and send your old one back and lets say it's been ran over, they'll charge your account full price for the phone. When the new one arrives you send the old one back. They never ask about rooting or anything of that nature, so your not telling them any lies. NICE. Also they're going to ask a bunch about the battery on the phone. They're hoping just your battery is ****ed up. To speed past this step tell them you have a second HTC battery made for the Sensation that doesn't work either.
Yes, it won't even go to HBOOT now, so I'm pretty sure I'm toast. Thanks for the replies!
Hi Guys,
New to flashing the Sensation, though I've done my HD2 a good few times.
Girlfriend just bought a Sensation and I'm eager to flash a decent ROM to it but failing at the first hurdle.
From what I can tell, there is no HBOOT but instead it has uboot (forgive me if this sounds ridiculous).
When I use Power+Volume Down, I do not get a white screen with options and information but instead get a black screen. There's no sign of an HBOOT version, but there is a uboot version number.
If I press Power +Volume Up I am sent to a recovery mode, but I don't think it's CWM.
If I try to use Revolutionary, it finds the phone (in normal mode, not h/u boot) and says that the phone is not supported.
Phone was bought in China but I think it is a Euro model (T Mobile branding on top of phone)
There is a possibility that a ROM has already been flashed onto it - but it sucks, and I want her to get the best from her new phone.
Also, I cannot get the CID or MID number. Tried CID getter, neither of them were on there. Tried terminal emulator, no response from getprop ro.cid or ro.mid.
So even if I wanted to upgrade the firmware, I am unsure which one to use!!
Has anyone run into this sort of situation? Using SuperTool I was able to get root access, which is at least a step in the right direction but I'm not sure how to proceed. Maybe it's already s-off and I can update the firmware and thus get hboot. But if it's not, then I run the risk of ruining it.
If you think I can go ahead and try to install new firmware, without risk of bricking or semi bricking, then I would probably be inclined to go for it.
Looking around here and also on Google, I haven't seen anyone with the same issue, so any help you can give would be very welcome!!
Many thanks in advance,
Mr Al
two possibilities: your sensation is faked or it has been relocked by the sellor which is called "baikamumaji".
Sent from my Sensation using XDA
Thanks for that, although it's slightly bad news!!
I'll see if we can get in touch with the seller and take it from there.
Ok, we've just spoken (online) with the sellers 'tech' guy.
I think pmbldc is right, it's a fake.
Their guy says that it can be flashed, but only using the roms on their forum.
I think it's bull. Currently feeling ripped off and unhappy, but what can I do?!?!
Never buy any more devices from China??? Jus sayin... Sorry you got ripped off bro.. Sucks that that sort of thing happens...
Haha! A little tricky that one, as I live in China!
I've bought lots of electronics over here, both locally branded/produced and international. Lots of successes.
To be fair (grudgingly) this guy was considerably cheaper than everyone else. That old adage of 'if something seems too good to be true, it is' applies very well in this case.
Pretty disgusted with the whole thing, the conversation my girlfriend had with the 'tech' guy was ridiculous. Both she and I work in tech so his usual line of BS didn't work with us.
So now, having decided to be sensible and not buy the HTC One X, we're going to end up spending about the same amount of money anyway!
All we can do is learn from our mistakes, and at least now I know what to look for when buying a Sensation!!!!
True Story, bro