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[Q] Programming language for Windows mobile devices

We are a small company looking to do some inhouse programming using tablets. Initially we were going to move forward on an Android Honeycomb platform because we have only Java developers here. But it looks like we can't get rugged tablets for that platform. There seem to be a lot more rugged tablets that are Windows based.
Initially I thought that we would have to use C# /.Net to code for native applications for the Windows tablets (and Windows specific API). But a colleague of mine thought we could use Java to build native applications on the Windows tablets also. Is this true? Can I use Java to build applications that can be deployed both to the Windows tablets and the Honeycombs? Our applications will also use GPS location based services. Any feedback/pointers would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks.

What devices are you talking about? Phones (running Windows Mobile 6 or Windows Phone 7) or tablets (like the iPad, currently running Windows 7 and in the future Windows 8)?

Most of Windows-based tablets are based in just normal Windows computers on x86 processor. Only very few are Windows CE-based.
On Windows XP/7 tablet PCs you can write in Java without any problem. I am not sure about GPS usage, but it can be read using JNI or just serial port. You can have some common classes/class libraries for Windows and Android, but the device logic and UI needs to be specific (and the JVM is different - Sun JVM vs. Dalvik).
On Windows 8 with "Metro", however, there is no sign yet you can develop WinRT apps using Java.

I am talking about Windows 7 tablets (and Windows 8 in future)

If you want create an app you need C# and silverlight

stre67 said:
I am talking about Windows 7 tablets (and Windows 8 in future)
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Well for Windows 7 you can develop using more or less whatever you prefer since there are no differences between the OS on the desktop and a tablet.
So yes, you can use Java for Windows 7.
There is some API for Location services in Windows 7 however I don't know the details about this.
I also don't know much about Android, but if you can develop for Android in Java you can at least share some code between the Windows 7 and Android version of your software.
Windows 8 will introduce a new kind of app (metro-style app) and those apps can only be written in HTML5 and Javascript or C#/VB.Net/C++/C and XAML.
However, users will still be able to use your Java Apps on Windows 8.

so it looks like Windows 7 is like a windows 7 PC. I can't find any specific books on amazon, so I do apologize if my questions are stupid.
1) Can I develop a Java application similar to that of a desktop and deploy the EAR/WAR file to the windows 7 tablet? if so, does the tablet have an inbuilt web server type application (websphere, tomcat) to serve pages? if not, will the app be loaded on a remote server and be accessed via a browser? In this case the tablet will need an internet connection all the time, correct?
Thanks again.

A Windows 7 Tablet is basically just running the desktop version of Windows 7 so you can do anything with the tablet that you could do with a Windows 7 desktop machine.
Note that Windows Phone 7 is an entirely different operating system that's barely connected.

[Q] what is ARM based and Intel Based Tablets

to whom is knowledgable and also like to explain like Ted mozbi in How I met Your Mother show.... please what is the defernce between ARM based tablet and Intel based tablet???? what concerns me the most is it like I can install exe. file on the intel while I can't in the ARM !?

The major difference between the two is that they typically refer to the the architecture of the cpu. This means how it was designed and how machine instructions are interpreted by cpu.
The answer is yes and no for whether you can install exe's. Yes, they will both be able to install different programs and applications. However, the application or program in question will have to be compiled for that architecture. I haven't done any windows mobile development but my guess is that most if not all apps you can download from the market place will be available for both architectures.
Hopefully that can clear things up a bit.

Wow fastest replay ever seen thanks a milion,,, it did clear out the picture clearer then before ...

To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace. I'm sure there'll be a jailbreak before it's even released, but I think this will still only allow metro style apps written for Windows 8, it'll just allow for them to be installed from other sources. Jailbreaking may also allow non-metro desktop style apps, it's too early to tell, but these will still have to be specially written for WoA.
Windows 8 on Intel chips will be able to run all legacy apps (which will now be called desktop mode apps to differentiate them from Metro apps), from any and all sources, just like your normal Windows PC can now. It will also be able to run Metro apps from the marketplace, and presumably from any other source as well.

See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1466400
for the Definitive guide to Windows on ARM

stevenmu said:
To add a little more to the above, Windows on ARM (WoA) will only be able to run Metro style apps, specifically written for Windows 8. I also think that it will only be able to get these apps through the Windows Marketplace.
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To add on, Windows on ARM is called Windows RT. Metro Style Apps is able to cross-platform on the x86, x64 and also ARM while Desktop Apps are able to run on x86 and x64. However, preinstalled Desktop Apps such as Office 15 (Microsoft Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, etc.) will be able to run on the ARM version.

[Q] windows any for and android tab???

hi guys, sorry for the newb question, but i am wondering if it possible to get any windows os on a nexus 7 or is there any cheap tablet out there that will install windows? i put xp tablet edition on a o2 joggler for a friend of mine who uses it in his garage, but he wants to now run some of his diagnostic gear on a tablet if there is one that can run windows? sorry again in advance. .
kindest regards
phil

No most tablets use an ARM processor which is incompatible with Windows which requires an Intel type x86 or x64 processor. While there is a version of Windows 8 for ARM devices its very closed source so it cannot be ported to other devices. Plus the ARM version of Windows 8 won't run any existing Windows programs.
You'll probably need a tablet with an Intel x86 processor, something with an Intel Atom should suffice unless you need a lot of power.

Yes
Pick up tablet
Break open through middle
insert window
Insert another window
Voila. Windows in tablet

start menu

Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.

ha, nope sorry buddy! windows RT is completely different to windows 8, RT is using a ARM processor 'tegra 3' this means the software will have to be made for an arm CPU, that's why it won't work on your rt device. this is also why there is a marketplace for downloading all of your apps....
sorry.

ssfirme said:
Is there a way i can add the start menu on my rt, I installed pokki my desktop running windows 8,but cant seem to install on my rt.
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you can jailbreak your device using this and then run classic start menu from here. works perfectly on my surface rt

Dane, you're actually incorrect... there's a hack available (on this very site, even), commonly referred to as a "jailbreak", that allows running apps which aren't from the store, sideloaded, or from Microsoft on Windows RT. They still need to be compatible with ARM, as you say, but recent .NET apps work fine with no changes, and many C/C++ open-source apps have been recompiled.
Classic Start has been available on RT for a couple weeks now, using this method. Download the jailbreak hack, unzip it and run it, then follow the instructions. Download and install Classic Start following the instructions in the post linked from my thread, List of desktop apps for hacked RT devices, then restart Windows Explorer (or just log off and log on again) and you'll have a Start menu if you want it so badly (I don't get the fuss; on a tablet, the Start screen really is a better option IMO, but it's available).
Also, there is actually a work-in-progress hack to allow running unmodified x86 programs on RT as well, using dynamic recompilation from x86 to ARM code.

Why would you need a start menu on Rt?

You actually can... I've got 7-Zip, PuTTY, Gvim, MirandaIM, IKVM (and through it, Burp Suite and some other Java programs), Fiddler 4, Python 2.7, and some other "legacy" programs installed on my RT. I'm working on porting Chrome (it's a chrome-plated ***** of a project, if you'll excuse the terrible joke). I also temporarily install additional apps to test them out as people port them to RT. Finally, I've installed the Win86emu beta, which isn't a legacy program but is a desktop program; it's written especially for Windows RT and allows running (some) x86 legacy apps on RT directly and unmodified.

deeman said:
Why would you need a start menu on Rt?
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more of a want than need but it's a familarity thing, i'm sure.

Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??

mohitgalaxy3 said:
Can I get GOM player or any good player working on RT which can support most extensions ??
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Unrelated to this thread

ARM64 Windows apps!

Here is the thread, PuTTY is the first app in the downloads section
XDA:DevDB Information
Apps for cellular PCs (ARM64), Tool/Utility for the Windows RT General
Contributors
black_blob
Version Information
Status: Testing
Created 2016-12-10
Last Updated 2016-12-10

This is awesome!!
Is this a future for a collection of a quality Apps in this platform?
Regards,

McShaz said:
This is awesome!!
Is this a future for a collection of a quality Apps in this platform?
Regards,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, for native instead of dynamically recompiled apps.

Also, would be great to see both 32bit and 64bit version of compiled apps in future, as there is no so much software/hardware solutions exists with ARM64 support.

Would the OpenVPN client be able to be recompiled for ARM64?

How affect this to the users of Windows RT?
Are working on something big secret?
Thank's for all. You are a genius

But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?

notass said:
But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?
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Unfortunately for now the answers is no, since the currently supported processor to run Windows 10 on ARM is Snapdragon 835 (although they've demoed it on 820) and it's very unlikely. But, who knows?

notass said:
But all the devices with windows RT are 32bit, are they? can this run on our 32bit tablets?
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No. Stuff compiled for RT doesn't run in ARM64 Windows also.

black_blob said:
No. Stuff compiled for RT doesn't run in ARM64 Windows also.
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Has anyone been able to confirm this? I would have expected it to do 32bit to 64bit WOW like x86 windows does, but without one to try, I'm just guessing, and probably showing my ignorance of the difference between 32bit and 64bit ARM architecture in general (pretty sure it's more complex than 32bit vs 64bit x86 but don't really know the in's and out's of it).
Alternately, has anyone had a chance to play with one of these Windows 10 ARM devices yet? Does it actually allow arm-compiled win32 apps to run? I have a nagging doubt that maybe somehow Microsoft will have some dumb restriction that only allows x86 win32 apps to run through the translation layer, and not native third party win32 apps (i.e. RT all over again), even though it's supposed to be "full windows".

domboy said:
Has anyone been able to confirm this? I would have expected it to do 32bit to 64bit WOW like x86 windows does, but without one to try, I'm just guessing, and probably showing my ignorance of the difference between 32bit and 64bit ARM architecture in general (pretty sure it's more complex than 32bit vs 64bit x86 but don't really know the in's and out's of it).
Alternately, has anyone had a chance to play with one of these Windows 10 ARM devices yet? Does it actually allow arm-compiled win32 apps to run? I have a nagging doubt that maybe somehow Microsoft will have some dumb restriction that only allows x86 win32 apps to run through the translation layer, and not native third party win32 apps (i.e. RT all over again), even though it's supposed to be "full windows".
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64bit ARM is structured completely differently than 32bit ARM. Hence the incompatibility. Manufacturers have the option of disabling third party ARM apps to run, unlike with RT. ASUS already has said they will, I don't know about others, but they most likely will.

Qiangong2 said:
64bit ARM is structured completely differently than 32bit ARM. Hence the incompatibility. Manufacturers have the option of disabling third party ARM apps to run, unlike with RT. ASUS already has said they will, I don't know about others, but they most likely will.
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Thanks for your response. Sorry for my ignorance, but if WOW can translate 32bit x86 apps to run on 64 bit ARM, wouldn't it be possible to use WOW to make 32bit ARM apps run on 64bit Windows ARM edition, if Microsoft were they to write it the code? I assume it would take more overhead compared to 32bit to 64bit x86 WOW, but again, that's my understanding the 64bit x86 CPUs are similar to 32bit x86 cpus, since they were developed as extensions to an existing 32bit design but I am not a CPU architect.
From what I've seen so far, the three Windows 10 ARM devices coming to market all come with Windows 10 S loaded, but the user has 180 days to switch to pro. So in theory any of them could be unlocked, and hopefully run the 64 ARM apps posted on this thread. But I guess nobody has been able to test that yet.

domboy said:
Thanks for your response. Sorry for my ignorance, but if WOW can translate 32bit x86 apps to run on 64 bit ARM, wouldn't it be possible to use WOW to make 32bit ARM apps run on 64bit Windows ARM edition, if Microsoft were they to write it the code? I assume it would take more overhead compared to 32bit to 64bit x86 WOW, but again, that's my understanding the 64bit x86 CPUs are similar to 32bit x86 cpus, since they were developed as extensions to an existing 32bit design but I am not a CPU architect.
From what I've seen so far, the three Windows 10 ARM devices coming to market all come with Windows 10 S loaded, but the user has 180 days to switch to pro. So in theory any of them could be unlocked, and hopefully run the 64 ARM apps posted on this thread. But I guess nobody has been able to test that yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft could definitely do it if they wanted to, AMD64 was designed as a backwards compatible architecture. ARM64 was not. More apps are available for x86 though. There is no need for them to make a compatibility layer between arm32 and arm64.

Qiangong2 said:
Microsoft could definitely do it if they wanted to, AMD64 was designed as a backwards compatible architecture. ARM64 was not. More apps are available for x86 though. There is no need for them to make a compatibility layer between arm32 and arm64.
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Ok cool, so I'm not completely daft. And you have an excellent point. Since they tried hard to squash the RT jailbreak, I'm sure they don't care about writing a WOW layer to translate the apps people had compiled for it. Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.

black_blob said:
ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.
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First of all, Welcome Back!
Second, I thought ARM64 Windows was purposefully made incompatible with RT apps?

Qiangong2 said:
First of all, Welcome Back!
Second, I thought ARM64 Windows was purposefully made incompatible with RT apps?
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MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.

black_blob said:
MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.
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Oh, Okay. Thanks for clearing that up

black_blob said:
ARM32 apps run on ARM64 Windows since a while now.
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Click to collapse
black_blob said:
MS ended up unlocking both the ARM32 and ARM64 SDKs. And full ARM32 WoW is included for compatibility with non-.NET Windows RT apps.
(there's no ARM32 .NET Framework, so Windows 8.1 ARM apps don't work and x86 ones are used instead in that case, but ARM32 is used for UWP)
A dual-WoW system with both SysWoW64 (for x86) and SysArm32 (for ARM32) was adopted.
Earlier builds didn't have ARM32 WoW, at the time when I wrote my previous comment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's great news. Thank you for clarifying this block_blob. Windows 10 ARM edition is shaping up to be pretty decent. I thought I'd read UWP apps were going to be 32bit, at least initially, but I wasn't sure how that actually worked (if it ran through WoW or what). So basically a lot of the applications that had been compiled for jailbroken RT devices should run (if there isn't a ARM64 version available)?

black_blob said:
Here is the thread, PuTTY is the first app in the downloads section
XDA:DevDB Information
Apps for cellular PCs (ARM64), Tool/Utility for the Windows RT General
Contributors
black_blob
Version Information
Status: Testing
Created 2016-12-10
Last Updated 2016-12-10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was used qemu to emulate the win10 arm64, but the 7zip cannot run in it. The error is "vcruntime140.dll is not found."