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Randomly lose server - have to reboot phone

Title - meant to say randomly lose service and have to reboot
I have only had this happen about 3 times since owning the phone (since two weeks after launch). Occasionally, my phone will altogether lose service and display the blue circle with a slash through it, and I have to reboot the phone to regain service. This happens in an area where I have signal usually, when this happens. Does anyone else have this issue?

I had a problem similar to this last night/this morning. I didn't make any changes/mods to the phone either...
Phone was on the charger last night and when I woke up this morning I noticed I didn't have any emails. I still had the 3G icon and 2 signal bars, but anything I would try to do using internet connectivity wouldn't work (checking mail, navigating to google.com, etc.). I just shrugged it off since this has been the first time it happened.
For what it's worth, I'm running JF6 with UnleashTheBeast and the circle battery meter thing...

RE: Network loss, etc.
I've had issues like this from day one. From my testing, it seems to be related to the radios. (Both wifi and 3g.)
Stock was horrid for me, but then again, I live/work in a place with really crappy radio reception. It was tough to tell if the 3g or voice network service losses were just "the location" or something with the phone. But the fact that it's doing it with WIFI when I'm 3 feet from my AP, and no other devices are having issues is telling. Things have stabilized a bit with one of the SRE 1.2 OC builds.
That, and I'm now having intermittent sound issues too. (Can't play ringtones for a few minutes, then I can, then I can't, etc. )
I'm actually starting to suspect it's relating to the blocking filesystem lag. Almost as if some app is just killing the FS. I'll keep investigating. But it's good to know I'm not the only user who is seing service drops in strange ways.

I'm having similar issues with data connection, and i'm completely stock at the moment. My coverage is great so it just doesn't make sense.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Yeah, it's completely random when it happens, and it has happened two out of three times in an area where I have service...

[Q] Data Drops?

Anyone else experience data drops recently? I would say maybe a week, two weeks ago at most it started happening.
Before that I had a solid data connection, it was edge to 4g, but it retained it's connection well.
Now for example if I'm driving to work, 25% or more of the drive in random spots I have bars, sometimes full bars, but NO data at all.
This was not like this when I first got the phone, but is becoming more frequent now.
Am I the only one?

I have very similar issue or if not than its probably same issue, ever since two days ago its been happening so often. When the phone goes to sleep when you wake it up its always searching so when u try to make phone call it'll say not registered to a network.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

I cant even really use things like slacker radio or pandora anymore because it drops data so often.

Possible solution?
I'm helping a friend with a similar issue.
I myself have an htc evo, and under settings/networks/mobile data, there's a toggle settings called enabled always on mobile data. This setting maintains the data connection even when the phone is asleep. Without this, after ~5 min, push email no longer works, nor does anything else that use data.
Now, I only had a chance to use the S 4G for a few hours about a week ago when I set the thing up for him. I can't remember if there was such a setting under networks or not.
For those of you who have the phone handy, or are familiar with it, can you advise what samsung calls this function, and where it's located in the menu structure?
Thanks!!

I couldnt find any setting similar to the one you're referring to, just data while roaming which is enabled.
The main thing I find odd, is the phone only started doing it recently.. it performed great and always had data before.
Not to sound like a have a tin foil hat on.. but it's only started happening after the merger was getting announced. Could just be a coincidence, but odd timing nonetheless.

Do you have wifi enabled?
Since he's got wifi in his house, I left that on for better battery life as opposed to using tmobile data. I wonder if there's a handoff issue when he leaves.
If you're using wifi, try turning that off and keeping it off.

Yes.. I never have wifi enabled.. I'm talking about driving to work.. I have an hour drive.
Before I had solid data, it was edge or 4g, but regardless data 100%..
Now have I have data maybe 25% of the drive.
I've changed nothing. T-mobile has changed.

Oh this is frustrating indeed! What geographic area are you in? My friend is in chicago.
Does the data drop and reconnect, or stays dropped?

Bay area California..
Like I said, 3 weeks ago.. ZERO issues, constant connection, no drops, no problems.
Yet 1-2 weeks ago.. constant drops all the time, no data at all.. if i stream radio it will drop data completely so actually kill the connection with my radio stream.. becomes extremely obnoxious since it's very frequent.
This NEVER happened before.
It reconnects but takes oddly long.. for example, normal data reconnect from a sleep is maybe 15-20seconds.. this is more like 5-10 minutes.

I *WONDER*.... with the evo's wimax (4g) settings, there's a number of parameters that can be adjusted as far as signal quality (SNR), time outs, min signal strength required for connection, etc..
Maybe you travel through a questionable signal area, and it has a hard time re-establishing connection while in motion... On the evo, we get into that menu by ##3282# from the dialer. There's gotta be a similar menu for tmobile's 4g.

i know SGS tools allows you to switch between auto, GSM, WCDMA bands on the fly. This may help you in your problem if you want the phone to stay in 4G mode or not. the phone generally has a problem with Death-Grip users and the weak antenna.

The phone was working great week ago this started to happen i thought this had something to do with my phone being rooted but i have another friend with exact same issue and his phone is not rooted. If u put ur phone to GSM only than ur not going to have the isuue but you'll be on EDGE connection at all time.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

Well I think the main point that's being over looked, is when i purchased the phone, i did not have this issue, at all, ever.
So well over a month or more with ZERO issues, now all of a sudden I have the issues.. I've changed nothing, i rooted and modded the phone day #1.

I am with you. My wife and I both have this phone. It had been working great and and then all of a sudden, about 2 weeks ago, we are having nothing but problems with our data connections. We live in the Seattle area.

Has anyone contacted t mobile to ask about data problems? They don't have the most reliable network.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App

It could be a throttled down data stream. Do you unlimited Data plan?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA Premium App

I to am having the exact same issue in downtown chicago. I have contacted Tmo and gone through all of their troubleshooting steps. They even replaced my phone last week and I still get data and cell drops. When I called back they were going to dispatch a tech to the area to determine of there was an issue with a tower, but I don't expect anything to come from it. My problem started about 3-4 weeks ago. The only thing that helped a little was to switch the wireless network from WCDMA/GSM tp GSM only. You are confined to Edge for data, but the data seems more reliable. I am wondering if their towers are reaching capacity and therefore we are seeing drops???

I don't have that issue at all. It work just like when I first got the phone...

We here in oldsmar fl had a really bad data drop last sunday that we couldnt make or receive any phone calls but data and texting was workin. I called t-mobile n they couldnt detect any outage in this area n they had me troubleshoot all of my phones (3 of them) n nothing worked after about an hour of being on the phone with them I decided to drive about two miles away n I was able to make phone calls! ...by monday everything was fixed in my area but now im seeing weird stuff on the phone signals like when I make a phone call n I hang up I see the edge icon on the phone n then about 5 secs later it goes back to the 4g icon...that didnt used to happen before...I've even seen the G icon which ive never seen before in this phone since I got it...what the hell is going on with t-mobile towers? R they slacking? or maybe doing some kinda preparations to convert to ATT signals? Just my thoughts...
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

I'm having issues too and its making me sofaking mad! I don't even use a gig of data and I'm on edge for half my billing cycle ... Phone is great but I think it's the sh!t service T-Mobile gives to their customers ... at this rate you all may see me on the Nexus S 4G real soon... I've had 2 issues with T-Mobile so far in less than a month... I don't think its the phone...
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

Constant network issues

I am on my 3rd device in 3 days. First one was rooted, second one was not. This current one is also not rooted as well.
Unless I am very unlucky, I am going to assume there is a definite issue with the network configuration on this device. Status says I have 3 bars of 4G coverage, however I cannot connect to the internet at all.
Network Signal Info says I am on UMTS with a -93DBM, data is connected. However nothing will load. If I put the phone into airplane mode and then turn airplane mode off the networking comes back online. Speeds are slow though, barely able to perform basic mobile web browsing and watching youtube and such isnt possible. Too slow an too long to buffer.
This doesn't only happen at my house, it happens in other areas as well but it does happen constantly at home. I a not a heavy data user on my account, 1-2GB monthly, so Tmo says they arent throttling me. They have replaced the SIM every time with the devices as well.
Suggestions? If I cannot figure this out soon I am going to cancel my service as I cannot pay for a service and phone that just doesnt work. Tmo seems stumped. They just keep replacing phones since I am within my 14 day return/exchange period.
However, 3 devices all having the same issues sure seems to either prove the phone has an issue, or m general area of Tmo service.
I live in downtown Tempe, AZ.

Your wifi works?
I have the same issue in my house... I have a weak signal and 4g drops down to 2g which is terrible.... 4g downloads are 3Mbps, but uploads are under 100kps
I changed the network mode to wcdma only which helps significantly. 4g drops, but quickly returns...
Give it a try...

I'm having the same issue here in Orlando. I've had 2 phones now (first one was just a bad unit) and both have had horrible network connectivity and reception. I take my SIM card out and put it in my 2 year old MT3G and it gets perfect reception and fast data transfers while the G2x is choking on network transfers.

Go complain here in LG forum. This is software issue.
http://www.lgforum.com/forum/boards/general/lg/topics/g2x-wifi-problems

have full bars but cant download anything. just sits at waiting for data connection.

We really need a baseband modem that works better. My bars goes to zero then to edge and then to 3g constantly. Any time it switches between the connections then the the bars goes to zero and it says there is no conection. Also noticed that 3g connection fluctuates very bad while doing a speed test.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

ceroglu said:
We really need a baseband modem that works better. My bars goes to zero then to edge and then to 3g constantly. Any time it switches between the connections then the the bars goes to zero and it says there is no conection. Also noticed that 3g connection fluctuates very bad while doing a speed test.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How are you getting 3g? Unless you meant to say 4g?

himmelhauk said:
How are you getting 3g? Unless you meant to say 4g?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-mobile only has 3g connection avaliable where I live, of course it says 4g on the phone but in reality it is only 3g.

ngerasimatos said:
I am on my 3rd device in 3 days. First one was rooted, second one was not. This current one is also not rooted as well.
Unless I am very unlucky, I am going to assume there is a definite issue with the network configuration on this device. Status says I have 3 bars of 4G coverage, however I cannot connect to the internet at all.
Network Signal Info says I am on UMTS with a -93DBM, data is connected. However nothing will load. If I put the phone into airplane mode and then turn airplane mode off the networking comes back online. Speeds are slow though, barely able to perform basic mobile web browsing and watching youtube and such isnt possible. Too slow an too long to buffer.
This doesn't only happen at my house, it happens in other areas as well but it does happen constantly at home. I a not a heavy data user on my account, 1-2GB monthly, so Tmo says they arent throttling me. They have replaced the SIM every time with the devices as well.
Suggestions? If I cannot figure this out soon I am going to cancel my service as I cannot pay for a service and phone that just doesnt work. Tmo seems stumped. They just keep replacing phones since I am within my 14 day return/exchange period.
However, 3 devices all having the same issues sure seems to either prove the phone has an issue, or m general area of Tmo service.
I live in downtown Tempe, AZ.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if there is an issue with our network in Arizona?? I live in Chandler, and work in Scottsdale. my data times out ALLL THE TIME. Both here at home, and at work. Same with my text messaging. Literally, I do exactly what you do with the "airplane" mode. That's the only way to get my data and text working again (besides restarting).
Here are the issues I posted in the LG Forum:
http://www.lgforum.com/forum/boards/carriers/t-mobile/topics/few-issues-with-g2x#26861
(first issue posted is what you are talking about)

I dont think this is a regional issue. Downtown Minneapolis here, and I cant get it to stay on wifi or Edge/4g for more than a few minutes at a time. G1 has no trouble and shows strong 3g while my sisters mt4g shows full 4g. 4g/E symbol just flickers on my g2x leaving me with no connection. I can connect to wifi fine, but even with wifi sleep set to never it still disconnects every few minutes, and has to be toggled on/off to reconnect. Until toggling it just sits flickering 4g/E with no data connection.
I've never seen my Evo drop a E/4g/wifi connection and struggle to reconnect once in the year I've had it. My g2x does it almost every time I pick it up.

Did you try going into Mobile Networks in Settings and changing the mode to WCDA Preferred or something? That'll stop the flip flopping. That's what I have it on and that's what the phone came with out of the box.Also try Auto in that menu.

4G lit up but no internet?

So inside my apartment I can make calls, but no internet. There's definitely some static and the person on a land line on the other end said every now and then the call wasn't clear. Literally outside my apartment I get 25Mbps 4G LTE speeds. Weird. I guess my apartment is super insulated? LOL no, it's California the walls are paper thin. What gives?
My wife's iPhone on AT&T works fine inside apparently. My EVO on Sprint works really well.
I don't know if there's any special setting or number to dial to acquire different radio towers...I don't know. But here's the most troubling of all. Why does my 4G (and sometimes 4G LTE) icon light up when I don't have internet?
It tries to connect and all but it's spotty and just fails. I literally can't use internet inside my apartment unless it's on WiFi of course...Yet my wife's iPhone on AT&T can and so can my EVO on Sprint.
I will be testing all around my neighborhood and the San Francisco area...But I keep on Sprint for not having LTE...But if I can't even use the damn phone on AT&T consistently I guess slower speed is better than no speed.
Anyone else with this issue? I'm curious since it's a new phone, new radio, etc. Is it known to have issues indoors?

this sounds similar to some of the problems others are pointing out in all those threads complaining about wi-fi. various fixes being offered. also at least one person had said htc is aware of the problem and claiming there will be a fix by the end of may. you may want to check the other threads.

Mobile data on in settings??
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Yes it's on. It's just really bad inside my apartment and even on my porch (bad as in doesn't work and I have to use WiFi)...I thought maybe some sort of dead zone but again my wife gets signal with her iPhone. I hope it is something that gets fixed. If I can get this amazing 4G in my apt as well as down the block, I'll be a very happy camper.
If I can't use my phone in my apt ill be uh well I might be going back to sprint
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

tom_m said:
Yes it's on. It's just really bad inside my apartment and even on my porch (bad as in doesn't work and I have to use WiFi)...I thought maybe some sort of dead zone but again my wife gets signal with her iPhone. I hope it is something that gets fixed. If I can get this amazing 4G in my apt as well as down the block, I'll be a very happy camper.
If I can't use my phone in my apt ill be uh well I might be going back to sprint
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
call att and see whats up. Something isnt right.
I was with sprint, good thing i left. I have used more data in 2-3 days than i did with sprint in a month. Lol

Yea I would call AT&T. I think your phone may have a bad 4G chip. I had to send a phone back for every 4G issue in the book.
I just wish AT&T LTE was 25+mbs were I live.

I'm on 4G now inside. I didn't move the phone at all. It was on WiFi and after turning it off on then off a few times the 4G picked up. I see it now as HSPA+ and sometimes it bounces to LTE. But it seems to be working...at least long enough to post this message which is an improvement...
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

Walked around ny apt. Into the room I had no signal in before for sure... Seems ok. Bars dropped to one but now back in bed I have 3.
Also tested GPS directions today for fun and every few blocks it would lose GPS signal.
Never had such issues on Sprint and I'm not in the boonies...I'm in silicon valley of all places lol.
I don't know...how can you test for bad 4G chip? How can you test signal strength and what do I tell AT&T and what can they do for me? Or will they just say I'm unfortunately in a bad area?
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

just a comment. i have not had your problem, but i've been following these threads wondering if the problem will eventually turn up for me. i've placed the widgets for mobile and wifi on one of my screens so i can access these easily. turning on mobile while wifi is on does not appear to overrride wifi, but turning wifi on while mobile is on appears to override mobile, as the 3g/h signal for at&t disappears. i'm doing this from home, so i don't know if it works the same way upon leaving home, but maybe... i should also add that i'm on an int'l one x using at&t prepaid.

Played with it some more. Here's how it works. When on WiFi it uses WiFi like it should and doesn't use 4G/mobile network.
The icon for 4G is lit. However, I looked under settings this time more carefully. It says disconnected underneath. If I turn off WiFi it attempts to connect to mobile network but fails. Endless loop.
I turned off everything. Turned on airplane mode. Turned off airplane mode (black box notification pops up with "preparing SIM card" and goes away). The mobile network connects now.
Right now my signal icon seems to switch back and forth from no bars with an X to 2 with 4G and LTE lit. I can't post this message when there are zero bars, so the icon I guess is now accurate. I'm not moving, I don't know why reception would be bad or off/on....can any other electronics cause well known interference?
But at least I could connect. I'm not sure if it was luck or if turning on airplane mode made it easier to reset itself.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

I know my speekers at home seem to cause some interference, but the phone win's so then all you hear is a crap load of buzzing.
How I would test for this is to go to a AT&T store and do a "vs" on # bars/holding bars and the DBM rating under "about phone">"status".
If they are both the same then you may need to call AT&T about this. (I hope you don't have to call them 10 times like I did with the big red.)

Tried turning off my speakers here...Still bad. I mean the speedtest won't even complete. I'm stuck on the upload, the download was .74Mbps... 185ms ping. The signal isn't consistent. It says LTE then it goes away. I'm just bouncing around between HSPA, LTE, and nothing at all. Despite the phone not moving...This thing just can't stop hunting for a network.
Under the battery use, clicking on the graph expands it and shows the "mobile network signal" and the bar is 90% or more all yellow and some gaps of nothing even. Some slivers of red.
EVERYTHING else about the phone is amazing...It's just behaving as if I was in the middle of no where or something, but I'm in a small city.
I now know why my friend is ditching AT&T for Sprint I guess...But I'm screwed there too, no LTE and ugly phone design. It's like the HTC One is just some giant tease. A mythical Unicorn. Magic dragon. I just keep chasing it, but I don't think I'm ever gonna catch it

sprint is going to have its version of the one x - the updated evo, i believe, due out this month.
but you should just take your phone back to at&t. others have done so and gotten replacements.

So does it act like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxJoGv3FLA&feature=channel&list=UL
If so, you likely have a bad phone.

so it's a thing? like i can just roll in and be like "i think this phone is broken..." and i'll get a new one? and it's common?
okie dokie. i'll go do it tomorrow.
my internet is kinda like that video. slow and connection is lost.
BUT i have seen it really fast on the speedtest.net app.
on a side note, i did a factory reset and since (just about an hour now) i have not yet seen the constant connect/disconnect issues that i did before.
so it's pretty slow inside my apartment but it's at least consistent. outside it was fast on the LTE. 15Mbps down on the speedtest.net app. again the connection did not drop.
so i can deal with a little slow inside... in the bathroom the densest part of my apartment it was down to 1 bar but still, the mobile network was connected and despite it taking foooooreever to download an app, the play store at least did not fail on the download.
so better, but not perfect.
trying the speed test right now, it failed. thing says 4g lte up top too...why it would fail when the thing says it has signal, i just don't know.
can a phone be broken in this manner? intermittently work? i would say then at that rate its the area. bad signal in the area. ...and if i went into the store and said i want a new phone, i feel as if though they would just say it's the area you're in and the phone is fine... but how is it bad signal when it says LTE on there? and when every other device (a phone on Sprint and my wife's iPad and iPhone on AT&T) work fine? i can't imagine it's a bad area or apt. insulation. but how can the phone be bad if it works "some" of the time?
anyway. i guess i'll go see if i can trade it in.

Mobile network turning on and disconnected with 3 bars 4G LTE
I experienced the same problem after using HTC One X for the first day. I was able to get almost 30 M download and 26 M upload in my house on May 6th but lost the connection to mobile network on May 7th at the same location. When I turn off Wi-Fi, phone tried to connect to mobile network but went into the loop of turning on,disconnect while mobile network button is on. I went through 3 AT&T tech service even got a new sim and did factory reset but the problem just won't go away. The last AT&T tech service told me it is a defected device which I really don't agree. I think it is more an issue with HTC One X working with AT&T 4G LTE. I hope HTC & AT&T can solve this problem soon.

Data dropping

My phone has dropped data randomly two times this morning. I could only get it back by doing a switch to airplane mode. Anyone else with this problem? Is this a phone issue that I need to get a new one?
Sent from my HTC One X

Mine has dropped several times. when coming to and from work. It seems to always happen when it connects to wifi. when i leave work and its wifi, i lose all signal entirely.

I don't use wifi though that's the thing. I called ATT and they said it may need a new simcard......which this was. So I swung by and got one and the lady at the store said that my phone may be going bad! LOL wow I love how they train their people.

YES. Most definitely, this is the same problem I'm experiencing. I had another thread posted about how the 4G icon was lit but there was no signal. The icon now seems to be a little more accurate...But still.
At home I switch on WiFi so I don't run up my data but if I look at the settings for mobile network the status underneath in gray text keeps showing that it connects and disconnects. Endlessly. The phone isn't moving. My wife has signal on her iPad and iPhone (I know those are 3G).
I have to turn on airplane mode and then off...Then mobile network on and it seems to help a little. However it's still super spotty.
This is pretty much only indoors but I don't know. I'm going to go around town and try it out. On their coverage map I'm in a big zone of LTE coverage. Outside I have seen 30Mbps on LTE using speedtest.net app. So I don't know. I thought it was very odd given the houses here in CA don't exactly have super thick insulation and every other cell phone (Sprint, my wife's on AT&T, etc.) seem to be AOK. It's just this new One X that just can't stay connected to the 4G.
Going under settings > about > network ...
I see my signal strength....some readings are...
-109 dBm 4 asu
-101 dBm 6 asu
-107 dBm 2 asu
I have no idea what values I should be seeing - what is considered good?
Mobile network type says HSPA. Service state says in service. Icon up top is 4G with one bar. If I turn off WiFi I could not load a web page or anything. That's what annoys me. I usually see like 2 bars and that's fine...But if I see the damn bars and the 4G icon....I sure as hell expect the data to work, even if a little slower.
It's just SUPER flaky. Again outside seems to help but to be honest I haven't sat and watched it. For all I know it could be connecting and disconnecting over and over outside as well but just have a stronger connection when it is actually "on."
I'm annoyed and speechless. I'm not in the boonies. I've never experienced anything like this before. I'm actually at my desk in front of a window. Uh...WTF?

Just picked up lunch and watched the data while on the trip.
This phone is unusable. It's gotta go back. Well, I guess it's welcome back Sprint. Sooooo disappointed.
All I got was HSPA. The only time I get LTE and those fast 30Mbps down is at night time. AT&T is such a joke and their network is NOT ready for this phone.
I'm in Palo Alto, CA. It's not the middle of no where. This is embarrassing. Either that or somehow I have a defective phone or SIM card or something I have no clue here...It's really really bad and I'm obviously not the only one.
3 days and it's been horrible, the only reason why I didn't notice sooner is because I've been using the phone on WiFi most the time.

tom_m said:
Just picked up lunch and watched the data while on the trip.
This phone is unusable. It's gotta go back. Well, I guess it's welcome back Sprint. Sooooo disappointed.
All I got was HSPA. The only time I get LTE and those fast 30Mbps down is at night time. AT&T is such a joke and their network is NOT ready for this phone.
I'm in Palo Alto, CA. It's not the middle of no where. This is embarrassing. Either that or somehow I have a defective phone or SIM card or something I have no clue here...It's really really bad and I'm obviously not the only one.
3 days and it's been horrible, the only reason why I didn't notice sooner is because I've been using the phone on WiFi most the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how fast is the HSPA you're getting?

1-3.56Mbps down and 0.04-1.03Mbps up.
Out on the street downtown.
Best I've ever had was at night on LTE 30Mbps down and like 17Mbps up.
All to the same test server. Trying servers several states away it varied, sometimes I'd even see 20Mbps down to a far away server.
Again this is all WHEN I'm actually connected to the data network.
The thing just can't hold a connection. Constantly dropped.
edit-- ok so right now same time of day, servers, etc. Sprint's 3G is a little slower, but at least I'm not getting dropped.
and on a side note, i got a REALLY helpful lvl1 tech support lady on the phone. much better experience than i thought. there was an issue in the area before. but basically i'm going to give it another shot. if no good tomorrow, swap for a new phone. they'll call me back friday and we'll see... crossing my fingers.

Any update on this? I've got a new One X and work night shifts twice a week. I've notived tonight that the data drops when the phone is idle and obviously nothing pushes.
There's got to be a way of turning this off. I can see why HTC would call it a feature, but there has to be a flag or a switch somewhere....