Database Info

Captivate = Awesome Experience

I am a captivate owner and I have nothing to complain about.
The line above is a single sentence summary of this post. If you have no interest in the opinions of others or prefer to complain about a developers hard work then you should probably stop reading now.
After the countless hours I have spent in the Samsung Captivate section I am beginning to feel there is a growing void in the area of captivate compliments. It's as if people are angered by Samsung's apparent failure to achieve perfection. A post of positivity or satisfaction with our magical devices only seems to appear amidst the rampant firings of Iphone vs Captivate battles fanboy raids.
I do not intend to claim that Samsung has achieved perfection. Through the development and production of this device we can see that some apparent flaws have been made, HOWEVER!, these flaws are not attached to every captivate experience. After initially reading through this forum I would assume I have been blessed by the phone gods for providing me with the only fully functional captivate produced. After digging for some time though, it can be seen that there are a few who have had an awesome and intended experience with this phone. I never had a problem with GPS or Battery and I couldn't even complain about lag.
Rom after rom, my opinion has grown more positive. Through research and understanding I have learned how to make my device work more effectively for me. I have learned that most errors and malfunctions are simply user error or misinformation. A good and verified Master Clear can work wonders for a properly flashed phone's performance.
To the developers out there gilding the lily daily. You are awesome! Always should you receive an error log, but never should you hear a complaint.
I will end this with some things that have been making me smile since captivate release:
1. SAMOLED
2. Speed
3. Multitasking like a MoFo (Last.FM + My Tracks + HD video recording, simultaneously)
Updating with more smile factors:
4. Sleek sturdy hardware design
5. Phone sound quality and reception
6. Device/screen size
7. 3D acceleration

+1 to this. I too love my phone, it is a learnign curve and we have so many wonderful developers working hard to make out phones better. I agree that a little bit of learning goes a long way, most of the complaints I read and problems that are experienced are caused by over enthusiastic new owners that do not go through the proper steps for clean flashing and often have bugs do to this. Too many people improperly installing ROMS, not knowing the difference between Recovery and Download mode. Mostly due to not reading enough and following the clearly outlines steps. We all make mistakes and have all been noobs, no device is perfect and I know I had to spend two weeks of constant reading to know how to properly flash my phone, use adb, and various other usefull tools. I am constantly learning about Android and the Captivate, I am happy with my device and my current setup. These aren't I-phones thank god and you have to spend time to set it up the way it works for you, depending on individual needs and preference.
I also thing we have a wonderful comunity and need to work together to make it a pleasent atmosphere for all. I am truly enjoying my phone and appreciate the hard work the developers put into this.
The compaining gets tiresome, but with a little patience and learning these are really great Android phones. If you want something to work with no need to tweek and hack then Android id probably not the device for you, imo.

Happy to say the same! (without typing it lol)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

+1 Thank you for the post.

Good Post
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac

It is a great phone. My friends marvel at my resolution and then bend their heads and text on theirs.
Since rooting I feel freer. Ahhh.

Mac11700 said:
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
Mac
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I do not intend to silence those with complaints about their device or experiences. I myself have listed my concerns with the device here on XDA. It is a crucial part of how our community gains understanding and shares information. I just think the overwhelming count of negative to positive posts can be frightening to a newcomer or perspective android convert. I don't want to silence the negative but encourage the positive.
The above being said, some refrain should be practiced when posting to a developers thread. I am no developer but I think some people have a tendency to be more critical than helpful when complaining about freely developed and distributed software.
Otherwise, point taken and understood. Thanks for the contribution.

I absolutely love this phone. The GPS is abysmal, the Facebook app is in severe need of an update and the lack of convenient stable visual voicemail, but beyond that the phone is awesome.
I love swype and the amount of apps and I seem to be constantly blown away by the screen. Also, the battery life is great compared to my 3g.
I was skeptical at first but I'm glad I dove in.

Well.. I do not have this phone.. But, I actually 100% understand what you mean..
The best example I can think of is a PC.
When you buy a pc, what is the first thing most (even remotely knowledgable) users do with it?
Install a few programs. I always use ccleaner, to get clear out extra files, you delete the "extra" programs you don't want (if you didn't build the pc yourself). You make quite a few changes as soon as you get it.
If your going to get a phone.. and really want to get the most out of it.. your going to have to mod it.. That means Jailbreaking it on iphone, Rooting it on android and voiding your warranty eveywhere.
If your squeamish about voiding your warranty and just want a phone for email/internet browsing.. The iphone 4 is a great choice and you are welcome to use it, Actually so is blackberry, Symbian, and a slew of other phone's.
The truth is complaints shouldn't be addressed to the phone.. but, more the respective manufacturers and carriers that prevent rooting and void your warranty for doing so.
If you know what your buying, I can't feel bad when you come back and complain... If you don't know what your buying, I can't feel bad for you at all.. Why? if your going to get the most out of *ANYTHING* in life your going to have to know what your getting into and be fully aware of your actions.. Those who aren't, I can't pity.
With that said.. I'm not saying people shouldn't strive to push manufacturers to fix problems, and being able to read warnings is nice before you buy something.. My biggest problem when I read complaints is, people don't feel the need to warn, express this dislike or try to address their problems..
They want to just run in cry, whine, and then blast the phone as if it killed their children, ate their dog and laughed in their face.
if I could persuade my parents to cover the data plan.. (not happening, they wouldn't even let me pay for it).. Then I'd spring for capt full cash right now..

Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=809471

People ask me about my phone(captivate), and if they should get an iphone or captivate. Simple answer, if your a simple person, and don't like customizing or if your not really tech savvy, then get an iphone. But if you're the complete opposite, then go with an android (this is of course not involving jail breaking)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Mac11700 said:
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac
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Click to collapse
They have every right to complain, sure. But does that mean we have to be audience to these continually barrages of people who don't realize they have the choice to get rid of the phone if it doesn't suit them? I understand that we can have concerns, but if they're not handled constructively (ie varying, gps, lag, battery) they're cries should fall on deaf ears because I frankly don't need to hear it. Its been rehashed too many times to merit new threads and is far from necessary.
I come to this forum to get help with minor issues or improvement of my phone which is one I already love over my old 9700. That is why I love reading these kinds of threads where someone instead of injecting negativity into the community is seeking to shine a positive light. So here's to threads that offer help or new ways to improve the experience. Thanks OP glad you're enjoying your phone!

Dankenstein said:
Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.
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Click to collapse
Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
In truth though, it is an engine reference for a "1984 Harley Davidson Shovelhead".

I love my phone. I love it more now that i have angry birds. Would like inter-op words with friends, but there are alternatives. I do wish the "issue" that people complain about gets fixed, but it doesn't bother me. I would barely use it anyway. To much like a leash to me. Did I mention I love my phone.

Shovelhead84 said:
Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
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Click to collapse
That was the best laugh I've had all day!

I love my captivate. I admit to being a bit obsessed with it. I had GPS issues, but that was the ONLY thing I didn't like about the phone. I was hesitant to exchange it because I didn't want to end up with a different set of problems, but I did exchange it.
Now I love my Captivate AND I have a working GPS I use every day
Bob

+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post

this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid

chrisz5z said:
+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, welcome to XDA and to your new mobile experience. Back in my WinMo days I spents weeks reading the Kaiser forums before my first few posts. All the new acronyms and software references can be a bit daunting, even for the savviest of geeks. Luckily I made a smooth transfer by running android ports on my winmo device before fully jumping in.
shadow65781 said:
this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid
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Click to collapse
The annoying stab by the general uninformed public is an assumption that "Droid" is the correct term to reference all android devices. I blame Verizon and their conniving marketing department. The failed recognition of your device by a passing stranger does give you an opportunity to politely correct them with a showing of the wondrous features your technologically superior device is capable of.

[Q] Kids Rom

I have seen some threads for kids apps. I am interested in finding/building a kids ROM.
My child has a prepaid SIM card and RAZR to be used for certain situations. I would want to be able to let my child carry the phone all the time but restrict what numbers could be called.
So my idea, which can't be an original one, is leverage Android power to install a rooted ROM but run in user mode when I give it to my child. User mode could restrict calling to the phone book only or restrict wi-fi/data access; basically anything that you wanted to restrict or remove. Maybe there could be a ROM builder.
I have many scenarios in mind but maybe they could all be solved by software apps instead of getting into a custom ROM? I'm tech savvy, but haven't ever done a ROM. If the answer is to develop a custom ROM, what device should I choose that would get the most community support? I figure it would be a low end phone, since the point is to make a children's rom.

May I ask how old is your child?
[Sig] dId you know? If you Insert a Coin on your Desire, then it levels up to HD, Z or S :[/Sig]

i was thinking of my son when you mentioned this, it is a great i dea, and i also thought if the original att kid's phone that was out a few years back. it was revamped and it sucked. but good luck on either building one or have some one make one ( put a bounty on it?)

Phones and ROMs
My child is 8 years old. I figure in a few years that it would be fine, but it seems like there would be more of a market for this.
I would put up a bounty for it but I'd prefer to make this a community effort too.
So I will change tack here and ask what the best ROM might be for me to start with and what phones might be recommended? I'm figuring that CM would be easiest to start with, generically?
Thoughts?

I think that is a very good idea.
A good part of that could be accoimplished with a kids theme on an existing ROM.

im sorry but the RAZR is a dumb-phone! it doesnt support 3rd party modding. im afraid you are mistaking the word 'ROM' and actually don't know what it means! You will have no luck finding such ROM for the RAZR... A bootloader of any sort does not exist!
You need a smartphone if you want such a job done, but it requires a investment into a smartphone which are generally more expensive and not intended for 'kids'

I understand...
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?

rykerwilliams said:
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi
well i guess the best option for a relatively cheap phone (that has android) is the zte blade (in my sig) it is a british phone, but gsm, so i think it should work in the us. if you read reviews for it, it has specs of the desire, nexus one, etc in a cheap budget range. read some revies on it! it also cost £100. Not sure what your budget is though. before you set out to buy the phone, you may need to look up a rom that supports the requirements you want, or you could request one/build your own.
good luck

Unrelated, but the RAZR does support modding lol. Back in the day, pre-Android, I used to hack the hell out of my Razr. There's even a hidden feature called Club Lights that uses the phone's microphone to detect music and make the lights on the phone go with the beat. Youtube it.

That's a great idea... it would be great on a tablet too.
I'm always worried that my son is going to click around in the market and download tons of apps without know it.

Remove Dialer.app, replace with custom Dialer.app
Is the source for the Dialer.app known, i.e. part of the main trunk of the Android sources? I was just thinking that it might not be too hard to just modify that original source to limit it only to the "contacts" tab, that way you can only call the contacts tab.
Another feature I thought of is using some kind of Dynamic DNS client to be able to dial in to the phone.
I was thinking that there could be a "phone home" app that would call home and report the currently used minutes and GPS coordinates, or similar.
Just trying to get the features set worked out and find out if there is existing apps that do this stuff.

2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.

This is what I'm looking for my child. I'm a software engeneer but I've never works on Android. I think it's not a great works for an Android developer.
I'll follow this post for news.

digging this one up again. anyway to take something like at Nexux 5x and put a totally stripped down version of android on it to achieve something like the lightphone?

nvrpunk said:
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Per capita, there are very few people that actually root or flash custom ROMs, the number of kids that could/would use such a ROM is even less than that, this means it is not worth a developers time and hard work to build a ROM for this purpose, especially considering the plethora of different devices out there in the world. There would not be enough kids using "this" or "that" device with "this" or "that" custom ROM. To be as convenient for kids as what you are asking about, there would have to be a "kids ROM" for a large number of devices. This is not a reasonable expectation by any standard.
Add to that, the fact that rooting devices and flashing ROMs can quickly go bad if the user is not familiar with certain aspects of using a device that is rooted or flashed with a custom ROM, this makes for some rather difficult issues to solve due to user error, ignorance and inexperience of the user.
If you want a "safe" or "basic" ROM for a device, you'll have to learn how to build it yourself because I can promise you that no developer is willing to put that much time and effort into building ROMs that will only be used by a small number of users.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk

Definition of "Stable"

Many of you are going to know all this, and many know far better than I. Please, those that do, please step in and correct my information if I make any mistakes.
I see the word stable thrown around a lot - "Is this ROM stable", "stable release", etc.
I want to attempt to pin down a definition when in use for regular conversation, and I also want to address that there is one use of the word that is clearly defined and cannot be used lightly.
First, in the development/open source world, the vast majority of projects you will see are in beta or sometimes even alpha. This means that it's still in some sort of testing phase, and there are usually some bugs that need to be ironed out before it's termed a "finished product". By the very nature of software and developers' desire to be honest, it's quite common that there are some pieces of software that will never leave beta(and some even used in a corporate production environment. "beta" is not a death sentence and doesn't mean there's something fatally flawed). There is always more work to be done, a bug here, something to smooth out there, something that needs to be optimized, etc. A developer can not be satisfied to release a final version. That being said, it does happen. Once it reaches past beta, it often gets promoted to a "release candidate".
A release candidate, or RC, means that they are fairly satisfied that bugs are taken care of, and that they are PRETTY sure there's no major flaw lurking in the depths waiting for the perfect moment to rise and bring down death and destruction upon any innocent fool who crosses its path. This is the final step leading up to that coveted and rare specimen - the :victory:Stable Release.:victory:
Once the release candidate has gone through rigorous testing by developers, users, testers, etc, it can finally become a stable release. It's a big risk to label something as a stable release. This is the developer giving you their word and staking their reputation to say "there are no bugs in this piece of software. It is being released as a final version and will not cause you any trouble".
I beg you to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there are stable releases for any any ROM for the MT4GS. Once again, this is very common in the development world, and not just for phones. Just take a look at the number of projects on slashdot that are widely used by thousands of people with no trouble - much of them sitting in beta or even alpha.
Now is where we run into some ambiguity using the term. At a passing glance, and certainly to the uninformed, seeing that software isn't "stable" will naturally and intuitively lead one to believe it must be somehow unstable. Given the nature of open source and development, we know that this isn't necessarily the case. There may be something very minor that only comes up in certain situations, the developer may still feel that there hasn't been enough testing to rule out any bugs, or there may be no bugs at all but the developer is not yet satisfied with the completeness, speed, or number of features.
Now, I would like to address how the word is used in conversation or when asking questions about a ROM. Stability itself, is absolutely very important, with good reason, to a vast majority of people who own a mobile phone. This is often their only source of communication and is required for work, for emergencies, and for generally keeping in contact. If the phone fails to function in a manner that keeps the user reliably connected to their web resources as well as phone, email and messaging communication, there could very well be disastrous results. Therefore, asking if the rom is stable is very valid and relevant, but due to the fact that the word stable can have such an ambiguous definition, and is also a term for a particular stage in development, communication can break down pretty quickly between parties when the term starts getting tossed around.
The device I had previously was a Motorola Droid 1(OG Droid, Sholes, etc.). This phone had a huge and extremely active development community on many different websites. Many devs still hold the moto droid in a special place in their hearts for how hackable it was, the power it had for a device at the time of its release, and the massive userbase ranging from those with no technical ability at all to some of the best hackers ever to work on Android. This device truly represented the renaissance, if not the birth, of custom development for android devices.One thing that was extremely common across almost any ROM or kernel you could put on that phone, however, was a risk of "instability". In this case, this usually meant that the phone would randomly reboot, especially when doing something particularly tasking on the cpu(navigation was a particularly common culprit). In extreme cases, it would reboot and then go into soft bootloops once, twice, even five times. This happened more often with overclocked kernels, and most people had to look for multiple kernels and setcpu settings that would give them a balance between speed and stability. It took some trying and some tweaking. Most people would eventually get a setup that was solid. Even with a "rock solid" kernel and ROM setup, there were very few who NEVER experienced a random reboot when running a custom ROM/kernel. It was just something that happened. The other major issue people saw were force closes of apps. These were extremely common as well, but usually addressed more easily. Your setup was considered stable if you were confident that you could do all of your phone's functions without getting FC's and you weren't going to get a reboot 99% of the time. You could rely on it not to do anything unexpected.
I have, admittedly, not tested every ROM that exists for the MT4GS. I probably haven't tested half of them. I have however, tested most of the later releases with the exception of XMC's Jellybean. What I have found, however, is that out of all the ROMs I have tested for this device, each and every one one of them has met my personal definition of stable. I've never seen a random reboot on the MT4GS. If I see a FC, it's because I failed to clear data and cache before flashing something, forgot to flash or flashed the wrong version of gapps, or I'm trying to get something working that wasn't included in the ROM. It's for this reason that I really don't know how to respond accurately when someone asks something like "what's the most stable ROM for this phone?" or "I saw this particular ROM, can anyone tell me how stable it is?"
So I have two requests. The first is for anyone who cares to read all of this and answer. I'd like to ask you, if you are asking about how "stable" a rom is, what do you mean? Are you asking about whether it has bugs? They all have a bug list of what's working and what's not. Are you asking about whether it has a certain feature fully working? Once again, that's in the works/ doesn't work info usually including in the first post about the ROM.
Request 1:
Answer me this - What does "stable" mean to you?
Request 2:
When considering or just looking for info on a ROM and you have a question about this or that, be specific. If I've checked into a ROM, I very well might have an answer for you. If you just ask whether or not it's "stable", I don't know what you're asking

I can see where you're coming from.
Personally, stability for me is a rom that works well enough where the phone isn't bugged out entirely (has over 80% of the phone's default settings working such as calling or getting into e-mail, etc.).
In general, there are others who request too much and want utter perfection. No rom is ever going to be perfect, regardless of the stage of the rom (alpha, beta, release candidate).
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

To me a "stable" ROM is one where all of the phone's functions work as designed, meaning the camera, bluetooth, wifi, keyboard, etc. all function without having to do anything extraordinary. Also, the ROM itself doesn't require extraordinary measures to perform common functions and doesn't FC or random-boot. I can accept a few minor glitches, even stock ROMs from HTC have those. But, for my overall needs, I currently run only a stock-based ROM because I absolutely need the stability and all functions (especially the camera and stable wifi). This is my ONLY phone, I don't have another mobile nor a landline, so stability is #1 priority.

I've waited a long time for your post.
...and I agree with everything you've said thus far in principle.
The concept of stable is in and of itself a dynamic thing in a place like this under the many varied intentions of the people developing anything here.
Consider that in many cases things are made as examples, or proof of concept. Such things may be deemed stable by the creator on the particular proof, yet be unstable for other uses.
In many cases, such things are outlined by the developer and the bounds determining stability vary widely from project to project, and developer to developer.
In the retail world of say, phone sales, and the manufacturers guarantee against defects, the business world is held to a certain threshold of accountability for providing a working product.
For us here, there is no money involved - people aren't paying for a product, and so lose at most up time with the device while it gets sorted out. The total loss of the device itself, as in hard brick, due not to user error but to developer error is where I would say the minimum standard of stability lies.
That bears, in my eyes, the closest relation to the business world standard of a manufacturers guarantee against defects. Buggy software, and the clarification thereof being the topic to pick apart - i'd like to get a consensus of how many other people feel that simply not hard-bricking the device due to developer error is the complete polar opposite of:
karri0n said:
...
that coveted and rare specimen - the :victory:Stable Release.:victory:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...where the quote is in-context of being a final, finished product.
The minimum threshold being the easier end of the debate to reach agreement on and build our understanding from.
....
So how does a developer get to stable projects?
Drawing a parallel from the manufacturing industry, the answer is quality control.
If your business is running assembly lines of product, at the end of the line needs to be a certain amount of quality control before shipping. Else the product could vary widely in stated ability and function. A shop with little to no quality control could be one equivalent to an unstable release.
This points us in a direction in the determination of stability - the comparable equivalent from our point of view is testing. You have to test your product (project) before sharing, else you don't know if it will work right.
Unlike an assembly line where testing is done on a random small sampling of pieces, a developer must rigorously test and retest the project (product) to ensure stability and reliability of function.
Of course, this begs the question of the standards involved in testing.
Ever seen this movie? The Pentagon Wars
It's a riot - but also illustrates the importance of standards in testing.
To us one way, arguably the most important way, is developing a consistent method of testing to properly evaluate the desired results.
Consider my first project of involvement at XDA was in understanding the differences in MicroSD cards for running CM7 booted off the Sdcard and not the internal memory of a device. Some cards were downright buttery smooth and amazing, other cards were downright impossible to work with. They were directly found to be the culprit of force closes, if it could be run at all.
Once we determined that there was a specific brand that could be consistently counted on to perform to spec (through a massive posting of speed test results by ever so many members of the community!!! :highfive: ) - I set about trying to determine how accurate the posted information was.
This thread: A Closer Look At MicroSD and Reader Speed
...was primarily established to determine how much the type of card reader used skewed the testing results.
Granted, i'm biased based on having written the article, but I would consider that project to be an example of rigorous standards of testing for a particular piece of information.
I use this example to make the point of stability. In this case it directly equates to validity of results. By recording all of the data, publishing all of the data, people can point out where my math may be wrong if i've made a mistake based on calculations of the raw published data.
( just like people can offer suggestions on published open-source code )
...or incorporate the results into further testing of their own - based on the validity ( stability ) of the data.
Another example of what I would consider trying to achieve a "stable release" of an answer to a question through rigorous testing: My first real doubleshot contribution.
So I put forth those two projects of mine to illustrate what I consider stable releases of information. If not, explain why?
So a stable release not only is important from a user perspective, but also from an open-source developers perspective.
How solid is the code(knowledge, information, etc...) being built on, if a coding (or other...) project? Is the code you are nudging in a direction you think would be interesting buggy to start with?
Is your own new code buggy to start with?
Do you just throw it out there and keep working with it until it works? Do you take the time to ensure it works to the best of your ability before releasing?
Both are very valid approaches - some radical concepts are seen to reality much more quickly because the incomplete thought was tossed into cyberspace to grow to maturity.
The developers ability to relay the type of project it is, and the expectations of use can in fact create the business world equivalent of 'buyer beware' in the context of placing the onus of determining stability on the end user.
Because stability really depends on perspective.
Saying that something is a daily-driver, i'd use it everyday kind of thing is most akin to the:
karri0n said:
...
that coveted and rare specimen - the :victory:Stable Release.:victory:
...
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...that we are trying to define as the upper end of finished.
There again though, this varies based on perspective.
Pretend a large enough user base decided they didn't care about not having any bluetooth ability. Along come some ROMs that don't include that function. They state such, and otherwise have bugs on a very individual user level basis, if at all.
To that user-base, those ROMs are stable. What about you? You lose your bluetooth headset and can't do without that. Being as bluetooth is a functional piece of equipment within the device, any ROM without it is technically unstable. Can we agree with this?
Stability can also be defined, at least in part, by a developers ability and attention to resolve issues "Immediately, if not sooner". This becomes a determination of stability based on the developers ability and timeliness in resolving issues.
Otherwise stable software can become corrupted through interaction with other code that doesn't agree with it. There are a lot of apps out there, and Android is an environment allowing for much more freedom then the app store.
Due to the increase of involvement of chaos theory throughout the Android environment, I'd put forth that the stability of any software is in part tied to the developers attention to unforeseen interactions due to the scope of Android at large.
Here again, is another example - by this definition:
"Bulletproof was more stable when I was actively working on it - before I had to take a leave of absence." During that leave time, the ROM is less stable then it was before, because any new problems aren't attended to.
But we can say that not only the level of attention, but the quality of that attention is important too.
A consistent voluntary lack of desire in chasing down new bugs and fixing them could be seen as the equivalent of that crappy customer service call. Maybe you just exceeded the developers interest in the project, and to that developer it was stable for it's intentions at the time, and has moved on.
From one perspective, the project was completely stable. From another, quite the opposite.
There again, you have developers moving on to other phones, or using projects as stepping stones to other goals. We would need to agree to be able to define something as "stable to a point" if the project was brought so far forwards before the developer left it behind for others to build on.
Sometimes while building bulletproof I threw out stability and claims/remarks thereof in order to challenge the community to define what it was to me.
In the end, stability to me correlates to the endless anal attention to detail - on all fronts. To write clean code, to properly wipe and prepare the device, and the burden of utilizing a stable product rests with both the producer and the user - even if the only user is the producer.
Given the many facets of 'Stability' in trying to define it - how accurately can we do so?
I look forward to the postings on this thought experiment.

How big is big?
I'd bet that the word "stable" means something slightly different to nearly everyone. As an active user that tinkers with their installation a lot "stable" means no more than a 1 problem that requires a reset every week or two. Different usage would mean different definitions. Another user on my account that primarily uses his smart phone for calls won't tolerate more than 1 problem a month and for him, even that is frustrating. For emergency personnel any problem that prevents phone usage would be way too many.
The word also has different meanings for different products. I wouldn't consider a router that has more than 1 or 2 problems a year stable. Commercial communications equipment I've worked with was deployed in environments where it was expected to run at least 2 years without a problem. It was so well designed that occasionally it would run 5 or more years and the end users would forget where it was located and sometimes even that it existed at all.
I guess language just sucks for this type of thing.

All I want is a sense-less ROM that doesn't have random reboots and I'll stick with this phone for another year. As it is now I can't freaking stand it. That's with a totally fresh wipe and install of Virtuous Inquisition. I just don't buy into the idea that these phones aren't meant to download all the apps and games we can fit off the play store (not that I do... I HAVE in the past but I've barely reinstalled anything since my most recent wipe). The idea that installing things is going to lead to issues that aren't the ROMs fault is crazy. The stock ROM doesn't have these issues with my apps being installed. I only rooted to get rid of that dumb genius button (and getting rid of sense was the icing on the cake although not totally necessary).

"Stable" should refer to a ROM that works completely fine except for 2-4 functions that are not essential to smartphone daily function.
"Stable" unfortunately refers to a ROM that boots around here.
Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G Slide using xda premium

polarbearmc said:
All I want is a sense-less ROM that doesn't have random reboots and I'll stick with this phone for another year. As it is now I can't freaking stand it. That's with a totally fresh wipe and install of Virtuous Inquisition. I just don't buy into the idea that these phones aren't meant to download all the apps and games we can fit off the play store (not that I do... I HAVE in the past but I've barely reinstalled anything since my most recent wipe). The idea that installing things is going to lead to issues that aren't the ROMs fault is crazy. The stock ROM doesn't have these issues with my apps being installed. I only rooted to get rid of that dumb genius button (and getting rid of sense was the icing on the cake although not totally necessary).
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I can't say I've seen any problems like you are describing. I only used Vinq for a very short time, before I realized that wifi calling didn't work on it. CM9 a5 does not have any random reboots and has more features than Vinq working. That being said, I haven't heard of anyone facng random reboots using Vinq. if I had to guess, I would say it's related to the way Vinq tries to patch some elements of Sense and some elements of AOSP together, and they just don't get along. If it were me, I would move to cm9. I don't like sense's remnants tainting up my device, especially if they're going to lead to problems. the ONLY exception to this is the stock DoubleShot camera I would enjoy having that, but not if it meant that I had to run sense libs and it started causing conflicts with other parts of my AOSP.

Where's the ROMS

Wow... Did I pick the wrong phone to get this year? Every phone Ive had since I started getting smartphones has had some community around it that has developed roms. It seems like the Q hit the scene and got lost. Everyone is either on the galaxy III or EVO LTE. Or is it just difficult or something to make roms for this phone.
Maybe my desire to have a hardware keyboard is getting outdated... I remember when the epic came out and sold out nearly immediately just because of all the people who wanted a hard keyboard.
I guess Im just disappointed ... thanks for paying attention for a moment,

Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint

Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.

fallnSaint said:
Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint
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Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
PythonFanTN said:
Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.
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Click to collapse
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.

kilmarac said:
Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.
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First post in a new forum acts as your intro imo. We are working towards some roms, just a bit slow going atm.
As for the official unlock, have you looked at this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1942243
Can't say I have ever used a warranty having insurance, but may put some of your concerns to rest.
-Saint

Well I look at this one of two ways...
Either you a) help make those ROM's that come out within a week of the device's release or b) wait for others to release them.
I am usually in the B category, as the most I've done previously was help test and write scripts... I'm attempting to be in the A category myself, but it's not working out real well (as you can tell...)
So, unless you can help, I suggest you continue to wait. It will come, just give it time... the hardware is solid, and I don't see any issue getting CM9 singing. CM10/other stuff will have to wait IMHO until official JB - unless some other breakthru is made, which would be great.
Regardless, patience is a virtue. Everyone is doing this in their free time, for no profit. I hope to have something fruitful in the near future, but I have very little help and am still learning the ropes of Android development in general...

I was contemplating getting init.d working for us, but I think I'll wait a bit longer. League of Legends is calling me.
Seriously though, the ROMs will start flowing when people find issues with what we have now. And since what we have now is as close to stock as it gets with manufacturer skins, people are pretty satisfied. I know I sure am, otherwise I'd have cooked something up already.
Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 2

I miss old days of xda-developers.

The community was full of talented developers and modders that would put their all into it. Even when a update was in testing developers was still able to get us a copy so that we didn't have to wait for the carrier dragging their feet. We had guarantee root and unroot methods. People would answer questions when asked. Threads would always got comments no matter the topic. I don't know what happened to this great community. Almost seem like people don't care to much anymore. I come here almost every day and it's no new activity. Could it be this device or did xda-developers really change?

It's this device. Unless we get a bootloader unlock, you'll see the same activity pretty much every single day. If you check out the Exynos version of this device, activity is splendid and dev support is pretty well. Many of us knew that this device would stay locked, and you as well should have known before purchasing this device.

xWolf is 99% right.
Our devices are locked down, not a lot you can do when the bootloader is encrypted. The old days of leaked keys and hacked bootloader's are pretty much over.
The other 1% is the communities attitude. We have people running full stock down talking people who want to root. We have people who don't read and flash things that were never meant for their device. Then there are the people who attack developers for not doing things how they want... that's just in the T-Mobile S7 edge forums.
I have multiple phones. Some my daily driver like the s7 are mostly stock running the U firmware, but my G3 is still being developed I have Nougat on my G3... my S4 is still developed, and my s6 is slow but there are a few dedicated folks doing stuff. I have been part of XDA for about a decade soft and hard bricked more than a few phones working with devs to test things and the last few years the community has been flooded with people who don't deserve the time and effort these devs put into their work.
Sorry rant over...
Sent from my SM-G935U using XDA Premium HD app

problem is things like samsung pay which are awesome. As we switch to a smartphone taking over PC's for standard users development like this will die. I miss the old days too. I just wish I could overclock my cpu/gpu on my S7 and still have samsung pay. Not having to carry my wallet is nice.

This isn't specific to the T-Mo forums, unfortunately. Though there does seem to be more virtual foot-traffic in the AT&T realm (I'm an AT&T user), it essentially amounts to the same level of traction.
I concur with what others have said, and honestly - I don't care about root at this point. Phones do most everything that I want (custom launcher, etc), but the one thing that drives me insane is the lack of ability to do a nandroid backup. I cannot stand that - after all this time on Android - Google has not made this a possibility without root. Light users don't and won't care, but then again they aren't on XDA in the first place. Those of us that are want to be able to backup things in a "snapshot" type of way, so we don't have to start from scratch. Helium, and similar apps only go so far (not nearly far enough, IMO) to band-aid this.

This phone isn't geared toward the "XDA user" in the first place. 99.9% of people who use this device have no idea what a nandroid is and how it benefits them. And honestly, on a stock device, I also fail to see the utility of snapshot backups. I get why they exist but how often does the casual user wipe their device to make it worthwhile? Also, space is still pretty limited on mobile devices. Google will never bring this functionality to Android, but I would not complain if they had a backup utility similar to Apple's iTunes, which restores everything from a computer. That actually makes sense, and I am surprised that Google has not made something similar.
That being said, there are plenty of excellent devices that offer you what you want. Everything is a trade-off.

Kingaries79 said:
The community was full of talented developers and modders that would put their all into it. Even when a update was in testing developers was still able to get us a copy so that we didn't have to wait for the carrier dragging their feet. We had guarantee root and unroot methods. People would answer questions when asked. Threads would always got comments no matter the topic. I don't know what happened to this great community. Almost seem like people don't care to much anymore. I come here almost every day and it's no new activity. Could it be this device or did xda-developers really change?
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Come to the V20. You have to follow the hardware to play you cant go with what has the best hardware all the time.