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Here is some information that should be useful to everyone in one way or another if not then you should have told us your secret months ago. lol
A Li-ion batteries life is on a time clock from the day it's produced and how it is used, maintained and the number of cycles it goes through reduces it's life. Even when not being used at all the clock is ticking and life is shortening.
So if any of you are like me I know many of you are far worse than me when it comes to the amount of stress put through it with flashing and extreme general use. Hopefully this will shed some light for us as to what we can do to try and prolong the life of our batteries.
The majority of the following information is from the book “Batteries in a Portable World – A Handbook on Rechargeable Batteries for Non-Engineers” (2nd edition) and Battery University™
Special thanks to the books author and sponsor of Battery University™,
Isidor Buchmann
CEO and Founder, Cadex Electronics Inc.
How to Prolong the Life of Li-ion Batteries
Battery wear-down on lithium-based batteries is caused by two activities: actual usage or cycling, and aging. The wear-down effects by usage and aging apply to all batteries but this is more pronounced on lithium-based systems.
The Li-ion batteries prefer a shallow discharge. Partial discharges produce less wear than a full discharge and the capacity loss per cycle is reduced. A periodic full discharge is not required because the lithium-based battery has no memory. A full cycle constitutes a discharge to 3V/cell. When specifying the number of cycles a lithium-based battery can endure, manufacturers commonly use an 80 percent depth of discharge. This method resembles a reasonably accurate field simulation. It also achieves a higher cycle count than doing full discharges.
Simple Guidelines
Charge the Li-ion often, except before a long storage. Avoid repeated deep discharges.
Keep the Li-ion battery cool. Prevent storage in a hot car. Never freeze a battery.
Avoid purchasing spare Li-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing date when purchasing. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
Hints to long battery life
3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion. Charging batteries to this voltage level has been shown to double cycle life. Lithium-ion systems for defense applications make use of the lower voltage threshold. The negative is reduced capacity.
The charge current of Li-ion should be moderate (0.5C for cobalt-based lithium-ion).The lower charge current reduces the time in which the cell resides at 4.20V. It should be noted that a 0.5C charge only adds marginally to the charge time over 1C because the topping charge will be shorter. A high current charge tends to push the voltage up and forces it into the voltage limit prematurely.
Memory Myth or Fact?
Lithium batteries are not affected by memory, but the chemistry has its own peculiarities. Current inhibiting pacifier layers affect them through plate oxidation. This degenerative effect is non-correctable on a lithium-based system
Calibration
A more serious issue is maintenance requirements, better known as capacity re-learning. This procedure is needed on a regular basis to calibrate the battery.
Why is calibration needed?
The answer is in correcting the tracking errors that occur between the battery and the digital sensing circuit during use. The most ideal battery use, as far as fuel-gauge accuracy is concerned, is a full charge followed by a full discharge at a constant 1C rate. This ensures that the tracking error is less than one percent per cycle. However, a battery may be discharged for only a few minutes at a time and commonly at a lower C-rate than 1C. Worst of all, the load may be uneven and vary drastically. Eventually, the true capacity of the battery no longer synchronizes with the fuel gauge and "a full charge and discharge are needed to ‘re-learn’ or calibrate the battery."
How often is calibration needed?
The answer lies in the type of battery application. For practical purposes, a calibration is recommended once every three months or after every 40 short cycles.
What happens if the battery is not calibrated regularly? Can such a battery be used in confidence?
Such a battery is able to function normally, but the digital readout will be inaccurate. If not corrected, the fuel gauge information simply becomes a nuisance.
Just Tell Me WTF I Should Do!
Charge your battery as often as possible, partial discharges are actually better for your battery
Once your battery is charged to 100% avoid leaving it plugged in any longer if you are not using a OEM charger.
Your battery should never get hot from charging if it does this is a sign it may be damaged.
If fuel gauge starts acting up calibrate your battery.
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
There is so much more that it's mind boggling but I think this covers the main parts and beyond for everyone. So far it appears that the bump method is not necessary nor are the numerous other steps.
I can only laugh when I think that the reason the method of calibration I was using was actually working is due to the fact that the "wipe batt stats, drain battery completely and charge to 100%" is basically the last step and all that is essentially needed.
3 hours? That's it? I thought whenever I charged from empty to full when it's off it's longer.. I should time it.. hmm
darkamikaze said:
3 hours? That's it? I thought whenever I charged from empty to full when it's off it's longer.. I should time it.. hmm
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I removed the time completely since some may vary. But the 3 hours is how long it should take to charge on a standalone battery charger. So rather than confuse or have questions it's better without it.
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
Battery Stats
Since this is the first time i had a really good battery life. I would like to share it with everyone. Please see the attached screen shots.
I am using Darky's 9.1 with SuckerPunch's 1280/500 Kernel and TLJL3 modem.
I hope this will help anyone trying to get more battery life out of their Captivate.
Thanks,
CuriousTech said:
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
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Thanks Curious appreciate it and thanks for the additional info.
I had some other random thoughts about the calibration because I keep seeing so many posts daily.
For example "I installed a new kernel 15 minutes ago, recalibrated and the battery drain is horrible." or "After a few charges it lasted longer."
I don't think people get the idea of calibration. Recalibrating determines the capacity of the battery to convert to a % full gauge. To do that you need to fully charge until the "Battery full. Unplug charger." notification, and not rely on the display and unplugging as soon as it hits 100%. That's the inaccurate display that you're trying to calibrate.
Think of it like having an opaque container and a teaspoon. You think the container can hold 100 teaspoons, so you stop filling at 100. All you can get out of it is 100 until you try to fill until it tops off and then count how many come back out.
The phone works the same way. It has an ammeter that monitors the charge current and drain current from the battery from the time you unplug it until it shuts off and remembers that total as the capacity. Unless it's recharged in the middle which voids the data.
After that full discharge, it should stay pretty accurate even with partial discharges. At least until the next rom/kernel flash which wipes it out. At that point (I assume) it uses a simple voltage level and some relative amps drawn to display the gauge, instead of the smarter method of keeping a constant value of mAh by adding when charging and subtracting when draining to know exaclty how full the battery is.
CuriousTech said:
Nice work!
Charging a 1500mAh battery at 500mAh for example will take 3 hours. The Captivate charges at 2 levels though depending on if it's USB (500mAh max for charge + phone use) or a charger (whatever it says on the charger up to ~1200mAh) so it can probably get done in under 2 hours.
The phone charges to 4.23V and stops charging when full but continues to run on external power, and shuts down at 3.500V where it only consumes current to monitor the power button.
Just for reference.
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hm. so if the phone switches to external power when the charge is full, is it okay to leave my phone plugged in once it's done charging? or is it just the fact that the battery is holding a full (4.2V) charge for a long time that's bad for its health?
in any case, useful post! i knew there were ways to preserve the life of li-ion batteries, but was never well-versed on the details.
Yes to both. Once the battery is fully charged, the charge circuit stops completely. It doesn't even need to trickle charge, so leaving it plugged in doesn't hurt anything.
Once the charge is complete the voltage isn't being held at 4.20V so it can come back down a little. I think BatteryUniversity generalizes becuase there have been many different designs over the years that weren't as good as what we have now, and some may have trickle charged their Li-Ions which shortens the life.
Which is it that wipes the battery stats, ROM or kernel? or is it both?
CuriousTech said:
Yes to both. Once the battery is fully charged, the charge circuit stops completely. It doesn't even need to trickle charge, so leaving it plugged in doesn't hurt anything.
Once the charge is complete the voltage isn't being held at 4.20V so it can come back down a little. I think BatteryUniversity generalizes becuase there have been many different designs over the years that weren't as good as what we have now, and some may have trickle charged their Li-Ions which shortens the life.
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One word of caution though is to ensure that you are using an OEM charger. Battery University recommends that you unplug once capacity is reached but perhaps this is a general statement for Li-ion batteries as you state.
zerkai said:
Which is it that wipes the battery stats, ROM or kernel? or is it both?
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Both. The first thing in a ROM flash script is to format all the partitions, so that means the batterstats.bin file is erased. When flashing a new kernel the file gets reset by some other means. No idea what. It could be CWM.
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
My noob question is, how do you delete the battery stats?
iNFRiNGE said:
One word of caution though is to ensure that you are using an OEM charger. Battery University recommends that you unplug once capacity is reached but perhaps this is a general statement for Li-ion batteries as you state.
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What happens when you introduce the variable of occasional car charger use?
Sanctus Peregrinus said:
Yeah but how the f^$% do I calibrate my battery?
Charge phone up and then delete your battery stats.
Unplug your phone from your wall charger and let your battery drain all the way down until phone shuts off.
While still off charge phone to 100% and then boot up as normal.
My noob question is, how do you delete the battery stats?
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Click to collapse
the file is located at /data/system/batterystats.bin . you'll need a file browser with root access (i use root explorer, a paid app). make sure you mount the storage as read/write or you won't be able to delete the file.
after that, reboot your phone and it will rebuild the batterystats file.
***disclaimer: be careful doing this. if you delete a crucial file, you risk messing up or bricking your phone. such is life.
Nice write up with alot of interesting information. I have never calibrated my battery but will have to try it out. Thanks for posting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm not positive of this, but I don't think batterystats.bin holds any battery capacity or health info. I was looking at BatteryManager and it looks like a database of processes and what they use only. But there is info somewhere that gets lost easily, which is the capacity and current amount consumed.
I've been skipping the delete of that file (using CWM) and have noticed that it recalibrates fine anyway. This coming from the point of dropping just after unplugging, which is a good indication that the info is gone.
It doesn't matter if you use a car charger, USB, or AC. The phone has the actual smart charger in it, the external connection is just the power supply. The chip inside regulates and monitors the charge.
So think of it this way. The charger knows when the battery is empty or full, and measures what goes in and comes out. So to know the capacity, it has to go from full to empty. That's really all there is to it. Just wait for the real "Battery full" before unplugging.
Just ordered a dock for my S3 and was planning to use it at work, so the phone would be plugged into a charger 8hrs \ weekday. Will this kill my battery?
ubernewf said:
Just ordered a dock for my S3 and was planning to use it at work, so the phone would be plugged into a charger 8hrs \ weekday. Will this kill my battery?
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No. That doesn't affect LION batteries. have done it for years with tablets and other LION batteries.
ubernewf said:
Just ordered a dock for my S3 and was planning to use it at work, so the phone would be plugged into a charger 8hrs \ weekday. Will this kill my battery?
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No, lithium ion batteries have no battery memory like nickel cadmium ones. Charge whenever and as long as you want!
I let my phones, and my other Li-ion battery appliances charge everyday all night long. I can't imagine it being much different then charging while you're at work. Worst case scenario is your battery starts to not hold its charge a year from now, and then you could just get a new battery before the 1 year warranty is over.
I thought that while there is no memory effect with Li-ion batteries, they do die quickest when at maximum and minimum charge, and last longest when at 40-50% charge.
Per Wikipedia:
A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.[50] In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO4 cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge.[51]
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Avoid deep discharge and instead charge more often between uses, the smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last.[106][unreliable source?]
Avoid storing the battery in full discharged state. As the battery will self-discharge over time, its voltage will gradually lower, and when it is depleted below the low-voltage threshold (2.4 to 2.9 V/cell, depending on chemistry) it cannot be charged anymore because the protection circuit (a type of electronic fuse) disables it.[106][unreliable source?]
Lithium-ion batteries should be kept cool; they may be stored in a refrigerator.[106][unreliable source?][107]
The rate of degradation of Lithium-ion batteries is strongly temperature-dependent; they degrade much faster if stored or used at higher temperatures.[106][unreliable source?][108]
The rate of degradation of Lithium-ion batteries is also related to battery charge level; they degrade much faster when at 100% charge, than at lower charges. Since batteries die if deep discharged (depleted) and since a battery has some self-discharge it is frequently recommended to store batteries at 40% charge level.[109]
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I'm not sure exactly which kind of Li-ion battery they are using as it seem some types are more immune to this effect than others.
But yeah, while it's not going to instantly kill your battery, it will cause it to lose capacity over time. This is the same reason why you shouldn't leave your laptop battery plugged in all the time.
I appreciate what you're doing there but I think it's hard to quote something as fact when it says "unreliable source" "unreliable source" "unreliable source" "unreliable source"...
Ha yeah I saw that but whatever. Wikipedia was just the first place I checked, I'm almost positive I've seen the same basic information elsewhere. And anecdotally I know I've laptop batteries stop holding charge after just a year or two when left plugged in 24/7.
This is also the reason that cell phones don't keep the battery charged at 100% when it's left plugged in. It goes to 100%, lets the battery die down to 90%ish, then charges back up to 100%, etc. It's trying to avoid keep the battery at 100%.
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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that is true. the affect is probably minimal though(like we probably lose .7% of our battery per month if dont let it get low before charging it, instead of the typical 1% per month)
i get through half of my day with about 50% battery less, sometimes more. so i've made it a habit of charging it once i see it's around this 50% mark.
Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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The effect is accelerated/more pronounced below 20%...
Here is the good thing though... These phone's minimum operating voltage is higher than the minimum voltage of a Li ION battery. Using standard battery life measurements, the 0% according to the phone, is about 20% of standard.
Should you do a full discharge every now and then in order to calibrate the battery? I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this in other related threads. Some say you should, some say it's not necessary since the battery doesn't have memory cells. I have never let my battery get below 50% and everything seems to work fine but it does seem to make sense to do a full discharge from time to time so the battery knows its capacity.
Jspeer said:
Should you do a full discharge every now and then in order to calibrate the battery? I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this in other related threads. Some say you should, some say it's not necessary since the battery doesn't have memory cells. I have never let my battery get below 50% and everything seems to work fine but it does seem to make sense to do a full discharge from time to time so the battery knows its capacity.
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Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH
I let mine get low all the time I use my phone a lot. Hopefully its not to expensive to replace battery since Google thinks that replacing a battery is to complicated for us tech savvy people
Justice for Kelly Thomas RIP
I don't worry about it. I charge it overnight. If I've over used it in the day and I feel it will die before bed, i'll top it up but not to protect the battery. Just to ensure I can use my phone.
If they wanted you to do anything special with charging / draining, it would be in the instructions
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markdapimp said:
Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH
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The battery itself does not but occasionally the controller needs a kick in the pants. Deep drains on li-ion should be avoided at all costs. The phone hasn't been out long enough to even think about the sort of problem. But after a couple hundred charges you might see a behavior that will be corrected by one full discharge.
Its not uncommon to see cases where you actually replace the cell behind a controller and the controller not picking up the change in capacity. Never in cell phones mostly laptop battery rebuilds etc but it exhibits an idea of what happens. The battery controller takes note of the original, current maximum and current charge capacity. Not sure how I suppose voltage versus read amp hours. But as a battery gets old you might start seeing the maximum capacity reading fluctuate. But if at any time the actual chemical capacity is higher than the controller thinks it is the controller will prevent the battery from reaching its potential.
Used to have older PSP batteries reach 100% real quick, quick fix was to deep discharge through the controller using a small light bulb. The battery would then take a significant charge and last a few more months before kicking the bucket.
Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Click to collapse
40% is a good number for storage, its actually better to store it at 40% than 100%. Actual use 20 to 25% is my personal range but I would say just never let it get below 15%. Lithium Ion does not mind being topped off. Deep discharged will ruin it real quick. My laptop battery lasted 3 years never letting it go below 25%, murdered a cell phone battery once a year letting it die.
I let it go to 1% and turn itself off. Then I charge it back up. But if I know I am going out in the next few hours I charge it as much as I can before I leave.
markdapimp said:
Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH
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lots of the fuel gauges for these types of batteries do need to be calibrated. this is not true for the N5 though(i think). I want to say i remember reading that this fuel gauge is different, like a 'smart fuel gauge' or something
kmx said:
I let it go to 1% and turn itself off. Then I charge it back up. But if I know I am going out in the next few hours I charge it as much as I can before I leave.
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You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.
Molitro said:
You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.
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Thats what the built in protection is for:
Marine6680 said:
The effect is accelerated/more pronounced below 20%...
Here is the good thing though... These phone's minimum operating voltage is higher than the minimum voltage of a Li ION battery. Using standard battery life measurements, the 0% according to the phone, is about 20% of standard.
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Enddo said:
lots of the fuel gauges for these types of batteries do need to be calibrated. this is not true for the N5 though(i think). I want to say i remember reading that this fuel gauge is different, like a 'smart fuel gauge' or something
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Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
LI-ON battery's have a different chemistry which allows them to store greater capacity without loss like NI-CAD and NIMH did this is why you turn off your phone for a week and turn it on you find it still has about the same battery percentage as you turned it off before.
here's an example of a NI-CAD battery which needs to be calibrated.
You have a drill you haven't used for 3 days it was fully charged before you put it away if you take that same drill 3 days later you'd find it dead. where as LI-ON battery's would still be alive and full capacity. if you charge it from there it wouldn't be calibrated. as calibration requires you to drain the battery 2 times or more till it reaches it full capacity and charge it back up to 100% and repeat.
If you were to do that with a LI-ON battery you're basically doing nothing but wasting your charge cycles on the battery and you could kill it as LI-ON battery's DO NOT LIKE TO BE EMPTY
Because of all that NI-CAD and NIMH mess mostly all power tools you'd find in a shop such as home depot are now equipped with LI-ON battery's as they don't require calibration and can be left for months and it would still have its initial capacity prior to charging because Ni-cad battery's suffer from a memory effect and LI-ON does not, NI-CAD Requires full discharge before recharge LI-ON does not you get the point here right? LI-ON is better!
Now for those apps that claim calibrate the battery they do nothing they just Improve the reading of the software in android to get the battery percentage which is reset every time the battery charges to 100% so in short don't calibrate your battery
You can read more here http://www.diffen.com/difference/Li-ion_vs_NiCad
and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrcbcm11830
markdapimp said:
Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
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The battery controller is still the source of the problem. If the batteries chemical capacity at a given moment is 1800 mah down from its original 2300 and the charge controller thinks the capacity is 500 the controller will only charge the battery to 500. Most controllers do not act like their dumber counter parts which will trickle or cut off when the cells characteristics indicate it is reaching a full charge.
The controller in these batteries while varying greatly in design all have one thing in common. They are designed for safety. The controller will actually stop accepting a charge forever if the voltage of the cell goes below a certain point. It will also never charge it above the current observed maximum capacity no matter what reality is.
You can poll a battery using vendor specific commands to get the designed, current maximum and current charge. The current maximum charge capacity is a changing value it will change over the life of the battery. This was an aging laptop battery that while the controller knew what the "Full Charge Capacity" was currently it decided not to report that to windows resulting in a hilarious 410%.
But we are talking about a problem that really won't rear its head for 1 or 2 years and were talking about doing it once or twice over the life of the battery. People doing it now and all the time WILL kill the battery very quickly for no benefit.
markdapimp said:
Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
LI-ON battery's have a different chemistry which allows them to store greater capacity without loss like NI-CAD and NIMH did this is why you turn off your phone for a week and turn it on you find it still has about the same battery percentage as you turned it off before.
here's an example of a NI-CAD battery which needs to be calibrated.
You have a drill you haven't used for 3 days it was fully charged before you put it away if you take that same drill 3 days later you'd find it dead. where as LI-ON battery's would still be alive and full capacity. if you charge it from there it wouldn't be calibrated. as calibration requires you to drain the battery 2 times or more till it reaches it full capacity and charge it back up to 100% and repeat.
If you were to do that with a LI-ON battery you're basically doing nothing but wasting your charge cycles on the battery and you could kill it as LI-ON battery's DO NOT LIKE TO BE EMPTY
Because of all that NI-CAD and NIMH mess mostly all power tools you'd find in a shop such as home depot are now equipped with LI-ON battery's as they don't require calibration and can be left for months and it would still have its initial capacity prior to charging because Ni-cad battery's suffer from a memory effect and LI-ON does not, NI-CAD Requires full discharge before recharge LI-ON does not you get the point here right? LI-ON is better!
Now for those apps that claim calibrate the battery they do nothing they just Improve the reading of the software in android to get the battery percentage which is reset every time the battery charges to 100% so in short don't calibrate your battery
You can read more here http://www.diffen.com/difference/Li-ion_vs_NiCad
and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrcbcm11830
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look man
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while.
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now believe what you want
Once in a while isn't explicit. The video posted earlier says once a year or so... both of those are "a while" to me
It all depends on the controller and the software but mostly its no longer necessary.
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Molitro said:
You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.
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Thanks for the recommendation.:angel:
rootSU said:
Thats what the built in protection is for:
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Fair enough.
But still doens't seem like a good practice given how the recommendations with this kind of tecnology are usually don't go too low and try to charge at different values, not always plug the charger at the same level.
Li Ion batteries charge to a maximum voltage before the charge stops in a phone or other device that charges while also operating.
To fully charge a Li Ion battery you need to monitor current draw of the battery as it is charging, it drops as the cell reaches saturation. This is difficult to do in an operating circuit... Though the tech may be getting better, as load sharing was not common for charging cell phones a few years ago, but it may now be, I have actually been looking for info on powered device charging, but find little beyond load sharing type.
So the battery in a phone could hold more juice if it was charged out of the device, and more still if the phones could run at the 3v minimum of Li Ion. (min voltage of arm devices is around 3.5v) Load sharing chargers can charge fully though.
Also charge rate affects battery life... slower charging is better for long lifespan. If you overnight charge, use the lowest rated charger you have, or standard USB charging. The current phones come with higher amp chargers now... It really doesn't speed up the overall charge cycle to 100% very much, but it does make charging to 80% quicker. So you can do a quick charge of a low battery to a usable level in a hurry.
Power tools use LiFe chemistry batteries which are more tolerant of abuse and misuse... at the cost of less voltage and capacity and more weight.
I work from home so it's easy for me to top off the phone as needed. I'll usually throw it on the charger for a while around 3-ish PM to make sure that I have a full charge going into the evening since I do a lot of reading on it after the kids are in bed. I'm definitely what you would call an opportunistic charger - there's no need to drain the battery all the way unless you absolutely can't get to a charger. I don't understand why people choose to run their batteries down all the way when they don't have to.
What's the consensus on when to charge and how long?
Is it safe to charge the S7 battery overnight, even if only around 50%? Or is it better to wait until your almost dead?
One of the I.T. guys at work was saying you should wait until you're below 20%, then always charge to 100%.
Just charge it whenever you want, this isn't the 90's or 2010. You'll probably replace your phone before you start to see it majorly affecting your battery.
You'll get a very slight improvement in overall battery life if you keep the charge between 25% and 75%. But we're talking very small. But yes, it's perfectly safe to charge your phone over night. The battery / phone / charger electronics won't overcharge the battery.
What you do want to avoid is draining the battery down to zero, or close to it. If at all possible, don't let the charge drop below 20 - 25% on a regular basis.
meyerweb said:
You'll get a very slight improvement in overall battery life if you keep the charge between 25% and 75%. But we're talking very small. But yes, it's perfectly safe to charge your phone over night. The battery / phone / charger electronics won't overcharge the battery.
What you do want to avoid is draining the battery down to zero, or close to it. If at all possible, don't let the charge drop below 20 - 25% on a regular basis.
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Thanks for the info. I thought it was beneficial to charge all the way to full?
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Lithium Ion batteries are different than older technologies, such as NiCad and NiMH. These batteries suffered from the "memory effect" (although not as badly as most people thought), so it was good to charge those fully. If you always charged them to, say 80%, they would eventually only take an 80% charge. Li batteries don't suffer from a memory effect, so you don't need to worry about that.
The other thing is that Li batteries hate three things: excessive heat, being fully drained, and being overcharged. Tesla stops charging when the battery pack reaches 75% of full charge, and displays that as a full charge. Similarly, they consider a 25% charge as "empty." Then again, a Tesla battery pack costs something like 10,000 bucks, so it's important to as much as possible to maximize the life of the pack.
I apologize in advance if it's was already asked
So i'm wondering how it works. Does it use warp charge till it reach 100% or it goes normal like at 50 or 70%?
I noticed it's slow 90 to 100 whereas i see warp charge logo
I'm on havoc so idk if it's the same, but havoc shows the output, from what I can see its between 5-6amps until 50% and slowly tapers down from there to 1 amp between 90-100%
*Warp
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CodeBreaker13 said:
I apologize in advance if it's was already asked
So i'm wondering how it works. Does it use warp charge till it reach 100% or it goes normal like at 50 or 70%?
I noticed it's slow 90 to 100 whereas i see warp charge logo
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Never charge to 100%, it shortens the battery lifespan a lot. It's best to use it on 20-80 charge range.
After 80% the charging speed slows down like any other phone.
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The about 20/80 has also worked out well for me on all my devices...
Hank87 said:
Never charge to 100%, it shortens the battery lifespan a lot. It's best to use it on 20-80 charge range.
After 80% the charging speed slows down like any other phone.
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This is a fallacy. I charge my phone to 100% everytime and after a years time my battery still has 93-96% capacity. The damage is done if you let it discharge below 10 or 15%. Lithium ion batteries looked to be charged more frequently and when the battery is above 75%. The higher the battery percentage the more charge cycles it will have.
Thanks for the lifespan tip. Didn't know about it
Eric214 said:
This is a fallacy. I charge my phone to 100% everytime and after a years time my battery still has 93-96% capacity. The damage is done if you let it discharge below 10 or 15%. Lithium ion batteries looked to be charged more frequently and when the battery is above 75%. The higher the battery percentage the more charge cycles it will have.
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I didn't understand the last part of your post, if you charge till 80% you'll use very little charge cycle. The most of the battery wear is done on the last 20% charging. Even if you store a li-ion battery at 100% it get damaged very quickly.
They like to be charged often and stay on 40-50% average charge level. If you do that the battery is going to last 3+ years.
If you charge overnight to 100% and top up every time you'll need to replace the battery in less than 1 year.
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Hank87 said:
I didn't understand the last part of your post, if you charge till 80% you'll use very little charge cycle. The most of the battery wear is done on the last 20% charging. Even if you store a li-ion battery at 100% it get damaged very quickly.
They like to be charged often and stay on 40-50% average charge level. If you do that the battery is going to last 3+ years.
If you charge overnight to 100% and top up every time you'll need to replace the battery in less than 1 year.
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This is not the case. Charging the phone more then 20 or 25% or more results in more charge cycles. Look up BatteryUniversity.com and it will explain it to you. The damage above 80% is done if the charging per doesn't reduce and you charge to quickly from 80-100%. This is why the battery reduces charging speed after 80% down to a trickle charger from 95% to 100%. This is built into the charging tech so there is no battery damage charging your phone to 100%.
I charge my phone to 100% everyday and something twice in a day and never have battery issues or reduced battery capacity. My phone lasts as well after 1 year as from the day it's purchased.
Eric214 said:
This is not the case. Charging the phone more then 20 or 25% or more results in more charge cycles. Look up BatteryUniversity.com and it will explain it to you. The damage above 80% is done if the charging per doesn't reduce and you charge to quickly from 80-100%. This is why the battery reduces charging speed after 80% down to a trickle charger from 95% to 100%. This is built into the charging tech so there is no battery damage charging your phone to 100%.
I charge my phone to 100% everyday and something twice in a day and never have battery issues or reduced battery capacity. My phone lasts as well after 1 year as from the day it's purchased.
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https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Read carefully, it says exactly what I'm telling you.
I'll attach a screenshot of the website that you suggested, it's shows what I'm saying that if you charge to 80% instead of 100% you get three times more battery cycles of lifespan (850-1500 vs 350-500).
Also the second screenshot shows that if the battery stays at 100% it degrades much faster (only 80% capacity after one year vs 96% capacity if stored at 40%).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uPH5UXBTbHiEgjRQ6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FLsT3gTEHuq6KwU77
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And if you charge routinely from 75% or higher, you can achieve up to 1200 cycles for lithium ion batteries. I'll do my way as I don't lose battery capacity after a years time. This is info from battery University. Been doing this for years (since the note 3). Again I'll say, it's not charging to 100% it's if your charge to quickly from 80% to 100% it's what's bad for the battery.
---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------
If you read what you posted it's the temperature During the charging that reduces the charge cycles. There is no heat in a OnePlus phone with Warp or Dash charging. Depth of discharge also increases cycles if you charge when the battery had more charge. For example... Charging at 25% or less gives 250-300 charge cycles, 25-50% gives 350-500 cycles, 50-75% 600-900 cycles and above 75% up to 1200 cycles. I'll continue to follow that by battery University and continue to have a battery that doesn't lose capacity
Eric214 said:
And if you charge routinely from 75% or higher, you can achieve up to 1200 cycles for lithium ion batteries. I'll do my way as I don't lose battery capacity after a years time. This is info from battery University. Been doing this for years (since the note 3). Again I'll say, it's not charging to 100% it's if your charge to quickly from 80% to 100% it's what's bad for the battery.
---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------
If you read what you posted it's the temperature During the charging that reduces the charge cycles. There is no heat in a OnePlus phone with Warp or Dash charging. Depth of discharge also increases cycles if you charge when the battery had more charge. For example... Charging at 25% or less gives 250-300 charge cycles, 25-50% gives 350-500 cycles, 50-75% 600-900 cycles and above 75% up to 1200 cycles. I'll continue to follow that by battery University and continue to have a battery that doesn't lose capacity
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I'm not going to convince you but I don't like the pread of disinformation.
If you read the graph in the picture it show that what damages the battery is both from high temperature and high charge level. Just look at 25 degree row:
40% charge - >96% capacity after 1 year
100% charge - >80% capacity after 1 year
Things are even worse at 40 degree: 85% capacity vs 65% so 20% extra battery capacity lost.
Remember that when the battery capacity is at 80% means the battery is gone because it cannot cope with the ampere under load and the phone will shut down. This after 1 year without taking consideration of the extra damage while charging to 100%.
Now I'll copy and paste that part from the website:
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
4.20v is 100% charge
4v is 70-75% charge
Be careful that's tge voltage of the cell, not the charging voltage.
I agree with you that slow charging makes less damage but still charging from 75% to 100% makes hugely more damage to the battery than charging from 20% to 80%.
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Hank87 said:
I'm not going to convince you but I don't like the pread of disinformation.
If you read the graph in the picture it show that what damages the battery is both from high temperature and high charge level. Just look at 25 degree row:
40% charge - >96% capacity after 1 year
100% charge - >80% capacity after 1 year
Things are even worse at 40 degree: 85% capacity vs 65% so 20% extra battery capacity lost.
Remember that when the battery capacity is at 80% means the battery is gone because it cannot cope with the ampere under load and the phone will shut down. This after 1 year without taking consideration of the extra damage while charging to 100%.
Now I'll copy and paste that part from the website:
Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.
4.20v is 100% charge
4v is 70-75% charge
Be careful that's tge voltage of the cell, not the charging voltage.
I agree with you that slow charging makes less damage but still charging from 75% to 100% makes hugely more damage to the battery than charging from 20% to 80%.
Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk
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Yeah I can say the same about disinformation which is what I said to you to begin with. My op6 which I bought and had since launch still gives me 9-11 hours is screen on time today like it did on day one. That phone like all the rest of my phone is charged to 100% every day, normally from about 70% or higher remaining battery when put on charge. Using a few different apps my battery capacity still shoes 95% capacity.
Again, charging to 100% and damaging your battery is a fallacy. Charging to 80% is fine but your depth of discharge is greater putting more stress on a lithium ion battery.
Eric214 said:
Yeah I can say the same about disinformation which is what I said to you to begin with. My op6 which I bought and had since launch still gives me 9-11 hours is screen on time today like it did on day one. That phone like all the rest of my phone is charged to 100% every day, normally from about 70% or higher remaining battery when put on charge. Using a few different apps my battery capacity still shoes 95% capacity.
Again, charging to 100% and damaging your battery is a fallacy. Charging to 80% is fine but your depth of discharge is greater putting more stress on a lithium ion battery.
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That's is from lab test made from scientist, so I trust it.
Also no one tells you that you need to wait 20% to charge, you can do 40 to 60 or 30 to 50 but i can assure you that I've got a phone a xiaomi mi 5s 3 years old same battery charging 20% to 80% and is still usable, I'm using it as a second phone.
My previous phone was a galaxy note, I was charging it overnight and charging it to 100% often through the day, i replaced the battery three times in two years.
Thats my experience.
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So guys what you recommend for charging pattern for best battery health ? I'm rly lost from what u said...
Me I charge my phone every night with very small charger I think it's 1amper maybe lower.
I never let it under 25-20 % and always charge it full with zero heat and takes long time to charge because of the charger.
If I wake up to go toilet and night and it's charged I removed it and that's it..
The Power of Oneplus 7 Pro be with you
johnnyman25 said:
So guys what you recommend for charging pattern for best battery health ? I'm rly lost from what u said...
Me I charge my phone every night with very small charger I think it's 1amper maybe lower.
I never let it under 25-20 % and always charge it full with zero heat and takes long time to charge because of the charger.
If I wake up to go toilet and night and it's charged I removed it and that's it..
The Power of Oneplus 7 Pro be with you
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The best charging pattern is to always keep the battery near 50% and do frequent charges through the day.
Don't charge overnight, leave the battery at around 50% when you go to sleep.
At the morning, when you wake up plug in the warp charger so you can charge to 80% before going to work.
Charge over 80% only in special circumstances when you need long battery life.
Try to never go below 20%.
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johnnyman25 said:
So guys what you recommend for charging pattern for best battery health ? I'm rly lost from what u said...
Me I charge my phone every night with very small charger I think it's 1amper maybe lower.
I never let it under 25-20 % and always charge it full with zero heat and takes long time to charge because of the charger.
If I wake up to go toilet and night and it's charged I removed it and that's it..
The Power of Oneplus 7 Pro be with you
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Click to collapse
I recommend you to plug your phone 1h before sleep and charge it fully or do it in the morning. You may increase your battery life with all that slower charging, up to 80% etc but really? Is it worth to resign from that cool Warp charging feature just for extending your battery lifespan and you won't even know how much it will extend? And you can even exchange the battery at authorised center for about 20 bucks.
I thought the myth about leaving the phone charging overnight breaks stuff was explained away already. There's stuff that runs in the background that improves the usability of the phone and decreases battery drain.
Read this monster post for full info. Not so much looking after the battery but system optimization. Warning. It's a big read. I've been leaving my phone charging overnight for years. I still have a OP5 that's being used daily and still gets fairly impressive SOT. Other thing is, "we" tend to change our phones quite often. SO I just don't worry about it too much and use the phone the way I want to use it.
https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/charging-battery-performance-caches-and-battery-calibration-myths-busted.993896/