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It seems the only way to fast charge a N1 is with the supplied wall charger. Standard Micro USB chargers whould only allow at much as 450mA of charge current regardless of the adapter current capacity.
The bundled charger however, manages to push 900mA into the N1. I made a cut in the charger wires and measured the current draw to make sure.
Now.. I'd like my car charger to be able to do the same. There must be some hack in the plug of the N1 charger since there are only 2 conductors from the case to the plug. You can see that the plug is somewhat longer than similar Micro USB plugs..
So I tried to see if one of the 3 unused pins can tell me anything but.. they seem unconnected as far as I could tell. Diode measurement (to test for any digital part inside) also did not produce any results. The next obvious step is to take the molded plug apart but I'd rather not...
Does anyone have any clue as to what makes that plug so special?
And please - I did my tests with a bench power supply - not the car chargers - so don't go around telling me it has to do with charger current capacity.
Thanks,
Nir
are you sure the micro usb cords you are using are able to handle the amps? most chargers made prior to now, only push about 450mA, the G1, and N1 chargers i have push a full amp though. I just ordered a car charger that pushes an amp too. There is nothing "special" about the plug.
followinginsanity said:
are you sure the micro usb cords you are using are able to handle the amps? most chargers made prior to now, only push about 450mA, the G1, and N1 chargers i have push a full amp though. I just ordered a car charger that pushes an amp too. There is nothing "special" about the plug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ. All the cords can easily supply 1 AMP. It is the phone itself that decides how much to draw from the charger based on something IN THE PLUG.
I am an electronics engineer so do understand I know perfectly what I am talking about
And your 1A car charger does not supply anything over 0.45A to the phone.. you will see that if you are using the phone while it charges (say nav or phone call) the phone actually looses some charge albeit it being charged... This will not happen with the stock wall charger.
I have a 900mAh car charger that I use and it does in fact give 900mAh to the phone while charging. I can tell because I used a 450mAh charger at home before and it was slooow and I could drain my phone while charging it. With the car charger I can stream music with spotify, use the GPS, have the screen on full brightness and the battery % will still go up.
I also bought a new wall charger recently, which is 850mAh on the USB port and has a 350mAh charger for a loose battery as well, works quite nice.
Has anyone measured the voltage or put a scope on the output of the stock charger?
maybe stock charger has a slight variance in voltage over USB chargers or some signalling going on and this tells the N1 to take more current from it?
I would like a solution to this too I've seen my phone discharge while on a supposedly 1A car charger using co-pilot.
SBS_ said:
I have a 900mAh car charger that I use and it does in fact give 900mAh to the phone while charging. I can tell because I used a 450mAh charger at home before and it was slooow and I could drain my phone while charging it. With the car charger I can stream music with spotify, use the GPS, have the screen on full brightness and the battery % will still go up.
I also bought a new wall charger recently, which is 850mAh on the USB port and has a 350mAh charger for a loose battery as well, works quite nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forget the numbers on the chargers - what counts is what really goes into the phone and that needs to be measured with a current meter (test equipment). What you may think to be fast might not be that.
Original HTC chargers obviously do the trick of fast charging but this comes at a price compared to the $3-$4 garden variety on Ebay and the likes.
now I cannot help you with the electronics at all, but, my old HTC Touch Pro charger seems to charge the same as the one which came with the phone, is this correct?
(suits me if it is, as then I have a charger for home and work)
my blackberry bold 2 charger only says it outputs 700MAh, but both the google and htc chargers both say 1.0A
dnts said:
Forget the numbers on the chargers - what counts is what really goes into the phone and that needs to be measured with a current meter (test equipment). What you may think to be fast might not be that.
Original HTC chargers obviously do the trick of fast charging but this comes at a price compared to the $3-$4 garden variety on Ebay and the likes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is just anecdotal evidence as I don't have any equipment to measure it. But my phone no longer discharges when I use it while charging, which it used to do with the old charger I used. So while I can say for a fact that the charger I use now is faster, I can't say by how much (this goes for both the car charger and the one I put in the wall socket).
I ordered this charger a few weeks ago and it charges my phone as fast as the original charger. The label says 5v / 1200mA.
Genuine Nokia Mini AC-10U US Type AC Charger (100~240V)
$7,25 and free shipping. (Takes a while before you get it tho.)
GazzaK said:
now I cannot help you with the electronics at all, but, my old HTC Touch Pro charger seems to charge the same as the one which came with the phone, is this correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Touch Pro = mini USB
Nexus One = micro USB
Not an engineering here, but I am guessing the phone not always drawing more than 500ma may be is to do with the charger itself.
There is this "fast charge" USB standard where a wall plug has the USB data pins shorted to indicate that it is a wall plug and hence the phone knows when to draw more power. So even if the charger is rated 1A, the phone might not know if it could utilize that if those pins aren't shorted. Try doing a quick Google on this ....
If someone can test if the stock charger that came with the phone in fact does have those pins shorted that would confirm part of this theory.
For all practical purpose - I used two cables/plugs with a bench adjustable power supply. Simple micro USB plug would only let me draw 450mA regardless of power supply voltage in the range 4.5-5.5V. Tried shorting data pins - nothing. Tried shorting spare pin to VCC or GND or any of the other pins - nothing.
Used original cable and plug - draws 900mA at voltages from 4.9-5.5.
So it's in the plug somehow.
Tried (very difficult) to see if the pins on the plug are shorted and all 3 spares (except for 5V and GND) seems unconnected.
Next step is the irreversible hot knife...
I'm bugged by this, too. I tested with my desktop dock connected to my car charger (which states 1000 mA): it loads slowly and my battery widget reports USB- instead of AC-charger.
Might it be that the phone tries to load more than 1000 mA at the beginning to be sure that it doesn't overload the charger? And if that fails, it falls back to 500 mA?
Could N1 use a simple logic of:
- always watch the voltage
- start drawing 500ma (or whichever is the lowest current as per USB spec)
- increment in say 50ma steps
- if voltage drops below 4.x V, back off and stay at that level
I just did a little test of my own. I have a Palm Pre car charger (actual Palm brand one labeled as 1000ma output) and I plunged my N1 into it on my way home from work. In twenty eight minutes, my battery went from 47% to 70%. Much faster than plugging into my computer, which is 500ma max. I don't have any fancy test equipment, and don't claim to know a whole lot about electronics, but seems pretty fast to me.
I have a 4-port 2A 5v USB charger, and connecting it to my Nexus OR Milestone with a MicroUSB cable (the one that shipped with either phone, or the one from my Kindle) yields painfully slow charging - it basically won't charge if you are using the phone.
Connecting the Nexus One charger yields fast charging on either phone - so it is not HTC (or Motorola) proprietary.
The Milestone comes with a 900mA USB plug, and connecting THAT to either phone with either of the MicroUSB cables yields fast charging.
I have another aftermarket 2 port 2A 5V USB wall charger (brand: T'nB) AND I have an iPhone USB plug, and both give fast charging on the Milestone, and I have not yet tried them on the Nexus One.
Breakdown (on things I've tried):
FAST CHARGING on Nexus One AND Milestone:
Nexus charger (either in the US (110v/60hz) or in France (220v/50hz) through an adaptor)
Milestone wall French USB plug (which I think is something odd like 850mA at 5.9v) with ANY microUSB cable (in fact, it seems to charge both of the phones faster than the stock Nexus One plug)
SLOW CHARGING on Nexus One AND Milestone:
USB plug on computer
One aftermarket 4 port 2A 5V USB charger (NOT a hub, only a charger)
FAST CHARGING on Milestone, untested with Nexus One
T'nB 2 port 5v 2A USB wall charger
Apple iPhone 1 port 1A 5v USB wall adaptor
Seems found the answer for Fast Charging N1
I had just do some test for Charging N1 With Original AC Charger , Other band USB Charger and PC USB charger.
1. Orginal Charger give N1 from 0% to 100% at about 2 hour and something.
2. The other band AC charger and PC USB Charger can only finish the same job over 5 to 6 hours.
The Fast Charging is Due to 5.1V (Measured at N1) and 5.2V(Measured inside AC charger). 0.1V Drop is due to resistance of USB cable.
The Slow charged is due to 4.8V (measured at N1) and 5.0V (measured on PC USB and Other AC Charger)
i.e. Original Charger mod from 5.0 V to 5.2V (about 10% increase in Voltage)
Looks my theory is correct then ? N1 watches the voltage and if it droops too much, it backs off the current.
So the key would be: get a charger than can maintain at least 1A @ 5.2V, use
a decent gauge, short wire from the brick to N1.
Has anyone tried a Blackberry charger on the N1? Will they work to full capacity as well? (They're on Amazon for a fiver)
Because the nokia charger is working
http://pinoutsguide.com/CellularPhones-Nokia/micro_usb_connector_pinout.shtml
see info under table.
I tested also HP charger + standard USB cable delivered with Nexus, and it is charching cca 1A.
Then I tested one noname Carcharger + standard USB cable delivered with Nexus, and also charging cca 1A.
I dismantle the noname carcharger and here is a result:
data line (pin2+3) is shorted and connected do + (pin1 ,Vcc) thrue resistor cca 630kOhm.
1 - 4 = 5.1V
2,3 - 4 = 3.2V
rashid11 said:
Looks my theory is correct then ? N1 watches the voltage and if it droops too much, it backs off the current.
So the key would be: get a charger than can maintain at least 1A @ 5.2V, use
a decent gauge, short wire from the brick to N1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I try to use power supply 5.2V 2A with cable without dataline (pin 2and3 not connected) and it is charging 480mA only.
I have now tested with an HTC car charger for the HD2. It's fast charging (tested with Waze running, two bluetooth connections and playing mp3 - and it's still loading the battery, whereas before it would be stuck at the current percentage) and even shows AC power instead of USB.
I am really frustrated with charging my phone.
From the wall, using the stock 700mA Samsung charger, I get 5% every 10 min.
From a USB cigarette lighter charger modified to source 750mA, I get 3% every 10 min.
From a USB cigarette lighter charger that can source 3A, I get hardly anything.
I assume from these findings that one or more of the following is true:
1. The phone knows when it is plugged into a stock charger.
2. The phone has a current limiter that prevents overcharging.
Does anyone have a charger, other than stock, that they recommend?
I'm half tempted to hook my stock charger up to a cigarette lighter inverter and power it that way.
(I'm also half-tempted to grab a current probe tomorrow and measure what the device is pulling.)
i havent really used my oem samsung wall charger much, but i know when i try to charge from my computers usb it takes 4EVER, thats why i jumped on this ebay deal
IBNobody said:
(I'm also half-tempted to grab a current probe tomorrow and measure what the device is pulling.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd probe the chargers and see how accurate their ratings are as well....
does anyone know if using a 1mA charger would be okay? i have one left over from my evo.
The phone won't draw more than 500mA from a charger unless the USB data pins are connected.
Be careful, though... 99.9% of the chargers from China that claim to be 700mA (the nominal value of Samsung's) or 1A will overheat and die (or worse) if you try to actually draw that much current for any sustained length of time. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's SO EASY for a manufacturer to support high-power mode, I'd be automatically suspicious of any allegedly high power charger that doesn't ship with the pins shorted together.
Manufacturers know that most consumers don't know the difference (hell, most users HERE don't know the difference, and XDA is the upper crust elite of the Android phone universe), so they omit the shorting bridge and ship a charger with quoted power capacity that it MIGHT be able to sustain for a couple of minutes if you operated it in a walk-in freezer, knowing that most phones will never draw more than 500mA and it'll work fine for them. It lets them sell the charger for 99 cents AND pretend to be better than the others on the rack because it has a bigger "max power" value.
It's "RMS-vs-Peak" all over again.
Yeah I'm one of those that don't know much about the charging. I did figure there was a different charge rate when plugged into the wall and when plugged into usb or a usb converter like powerjolt.
I also found that one of the usb to micro's that I bought for using with my car powerjolt coverter won't let me connect via debugging/adb shell. was a little surprised at this... is it just a bad cord?
bitbang3r said:
The phone won't draw more than 500mA from a charger unless the USB data pins are connected.
Be careful, though... 99.9% of the chargers from China that claim to be 700mA (the nominal value of Samsung's) or 1A will overheat and die (or worse) if you try to actually draw that much current for any sustained length of time. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's SO EASY for a manufacturer to support high-power mode, I'd be automatically suspicious of any allegedly high power charger that doesn't ship with the pins shorted together.
Manufacturers know that most consumers don't know the difference (hell, most users HERE don't know the difference, and XDA is the upper crust elite of the Android phone universe), so they omit the shorting bridge and ship a charger with quoted power capacity that it MIGHT be able to sustain for a couple of minutes if you operated it in a walk-in freezer, knowing that most phones will never draw more than 500mA and it'll work fine for them. It lets them sell the charger for 99 cents AND pretend to be better than the others on the rack because it has a bigger "max power" value.
It's "RMS-vs-Peak" all over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
D+ to D- must be shorted to get the high power mode? Maybe that was why my 3A supply was not handling it.
The Epic pulls 380mA when charging from a USB port from a Dell T3400 workstation. The result was steady at 40% and 80%.
I'll try out my other charging methods later and find out everything.
Stay tuned!
EDIT 1:
380mA is the magic number. It draws 380mA from all USB sources, including my two car chargers.
It draws 600mA from the wall adapter.
The wall adapter does indeed have D+ and D- shorted. My other chargers did not.
Here is the pinout for a USB port: http://pinouts.ru/Slots/USB_pinout.shtml
Here is the "beefy" USB charger I've been using:
http://www.wagan.com/index.php?page...ategory_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=98
This charger is rather nice because the step-down supply (AX3002) has a large heatsink soldered to the ground tab.
It currently pulls up/down the D+/- lines via resistors. Each port is pulled down separately.
What I plan on doing next is to remove the pull resistors from one of the ports and short D+/- together.
Well, this explains a lot. This was really getting frustrating. I bought a "high-curent" charger for my car and the phone blows through the battery when I'm driving around with Maps running.
Im always on the road and for me an inverter in cigarette lighter with stock wall charger works best.the slowest charge is using stock usb cable since theres a slot for it on the inverter.2nd was radio shack car lighter in inverter.the inverter was from radio shack as well
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
IBNobody said:
Here is the pinout for a USB port: http://pinouts.ru/Slots/USB_pinout.shtml.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the official spec but there are actually not just four but six connectors on usb micro, which is how samsung can create a whole mess of pinut jumps for various amperage draws as well as data, entrainment dock and car dock.
With the advent of the S4, and its higher capacity battery, one could understand a higher charging current. However, I seem to have uncovered some findings that the charging system on the S4 is a bit more complex than first thought!
This is a bit techy, and assumes you have a basic amount of electrical knowledge, ie voltages, currents, resistance etc., but I'll try and keep it as simple as possible for anyone who may not!
To explain: The mains charger supplied with the S4 is a model number ETA-U90UWE, rated 5V @ 2A. However, the phone will ONLY charge at full current (which as I have measured so far, depending on what the phone regulates it to, typically sits in the region of 1.2 - 1.5A), when using the supplied charger (or possibly one of equal or higher current rating, depending on how it's configured internally), AND the supplied usb cable, OR any other usb cable, provided its shielding (the metal outer surface of the connectors) is connected at BOTH ends of the cable. Use a cable that doesn't have this shielding, and the charge current drops, regardless of whether there is plenty of current available or not. Use a different charger with an unshielded cable and the current drops even more, again regardless of whether it can supply plenty more current.
My assumption on this, is possibly an effort by Samsung to avoid the scenario of sticking 1.5 amps down a flimsy cheapo cable, the wires of which will likely be too thin to carry it.
After doing some probing around with a meter, I have managed to find a slight difference with the charger itself, compared to a generic one. In a generic one, the two data pins are usually just shorted together, which tells most phones that it's a mains charger rather than a USB port. On the Samsung one on the other hand, the pins appear to be shorted together, and also connected via resistors across the supply line (known as a potential divider), which holds these shorted data pins at a certain voltage. This is what tells the phone what sort of charger it's connected to.
Attached are a couple of diagrams to show the difference between the two chargers. There are in fact various setups of resistors that different manufacturers use to set the charging current, so it's quite easy to run into compatibility issues!
To make this a little less confusing I have done some preliminary experimenting, and I set out my results here.
For the test, I used combinations of 4 different usb style mains chargers: an apple iPhone one rated at 1A, an iPad one rated 2.4A, an HTC 1A one, and the genuine S4 one. With these I used two cables - the supplied Samsung S4 one (which is shielded), and a cheap generic one (which isn't). I started by measured the charging current directly with a meter, by using a very short usb breakout lead I've made, enabling me to interrupt the 5V line. However, I soon noticed that the use of any extension cables, even shielded, can lessen the chance of maintaining a good shielding connection, so I continued the exercise relying on the "galaxy charging current" app to get a reading.
Charger.................... Cable................ Current (A)
=====================================
HTC 1A.................Generic..................... 0.5
HTC 1A.................Samsung S4..............1.0
Apple 1A...............Generic......................0.5
Apple 1A...............Samsung S4..............1.0
Apple 2.4A............Generic......................0.6
Apple 2.4A............Samsung S4..............1.3
Samsung S4.........Generic...................... 0.8
Samsung S4.........Samsung S4...............1.3
So as you can see from these results, the original charger makes a difference, and the supplied cable (or a good quality shielded one) makes a further difference. If you have any further findings please feel free to add them here.
I can see that this is going to confuse some people, as it has me, as I'm sure some will inevitably try charging up their phone on generic chargers/leads at some point, with potentially long charging times resulting!
.
Very nice findings! Thanks for sharing them.
Not only what you say about longer charging time, but also discharging may occur (it has with me) while connected to the USB. I left my phone with USB tethering and it shut itself down after a couple of hours (it was low on battery already). I wanted to keep all the accessories in "new condition" in case I sell the phone in a few months, but I guess this justifies using the official charger and usb lead.
I hope someone can shed some light on the detection mechanism or the particular characteristics of the official cable so it can be replicated in generic ones.
From your findings, also Appe 2,4A charger has some control on the cable used, thanks.
Yes, but you won't be able to get more than about 0.75A out of it even with the samsung s4 cable.
You could try to add an extension cable to check if the charging system needs exclusively an original samsung cable from the charger to the phone.
Original samsung charger => extension cable male/female => original samsung cable => phone
PS: is there an app to check the charging current?
My experiments used an extension cable, that's the one I made into a breakout cable. So no it doesn't change by adding a cable.
There is an app, called galaxy charging current, which I tried also. In the 0.75A results above it showed a max permissible current of 1000mA, with the fully samsung setup it showed 1900mA. In the lower scenarios is showed up as 460mA. Other than that it doesn't tell you anything, it literally just shows you a max possible current, not the actual current it's drawing.
I've found out what the issue was, my generic cable was obviously a cheap one and wasn't shielded! I have edited my original post to re-explain.
Also I did a further test on a PC usb port - the Samsung cable allowed for 500mA, but the unshielded cheap one only allowed about 350mA, so (as pintycar found out), the phone actually carries on discharging in this case!
Interesting post.
I've been trying to mod a car charger so that the s4 draws more than 300mA so far unsucessful. I'm going to add in the 82K resistance and see what happens.
demusss said:
Interesting post.
I've been trying to mod a car charger so that the s4 draws more than 300mA so far unsucessful. I'm going to add in the 82K resistance and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
Before: 450ma, after 1.73a
Then using a clamp meter I tested it with a 2amp Asus tablet charger - it varied between 1.48 and 1.61 amp.
I have since built a few more cables - one to use in my car (again 2 amp charger).
All in all, it works very effectively. Thanks for the initial research (saved me having to open my charger.)
BTW I suspect it is the charger where the resistors are, not the cable, otherwise the phone would try to pull 1.5a + from a laptop if you connected it.
Left my samsung cable at work so will test it tomorrow (if I remember)!
W.
Interesting. So basically for us laymen, you are telling us to use the original charger and cables to the extent possible ... right?
Can you clarify to me what an unshielded cable is? Maybe with a picture? I've got a blackberry's cable at work connected to my PC.
At home, I also have a cable and charger that I got with my Nexus S (I think this says Output 5.0V ~ 0.7A).
Would this be a problem or can I get by with these?
Thanks
I've been using the Samsung cable+charger+USB extension cable and charging the S4 usually takes about 4 hours, I'm going to try with just the Samsung cable next time and see if it makes any difference since people are saying that theirs can be fully charged within less than 3 hours.
Paparasee said:
Interesting. So basically for us laymen, you are telling us to use the original charger and cables to the extent possible ... right?
Can you clarify to me what an unshielded cable is? Maybe with a picture? I've got a blackberry's cable at work connected to my PC.
At home, I also have a cable and charger that I got with my Nexus S (I think this says Output 5.0V ~ 0.7A).
Would this be a problem or can I get by with these?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I believe (guess work here ) that only the original charger "needs" a shielded cable - could be checked by shorting the ground and shield on one side and see if it works at the higher current - if I am bored I may do it - it probably checks the shield and limits the current if it is not there (note I have not tested this so only going by the first posters findings).
BTW a shielded cable has a wire mesh around the 4 internal cables - this mesh avoids external interference messing with the signals. Can't see it affecting the charging though BUT shielded cables tend to have thicker internal cables so could be related to this.
I have it charging at 1.7a on an unshielded cable (thought he power strands are thicker than average) Shielding should only affect the data transfer speed, not the charging current.
If the Nexus S has only a 700mah charger then this will not be able to provide enough current for high speed charging and could easily burn out - nice smell, dead charger, not much else. therefore only use a normal unmodified usb cable (and it will charge at about 450mah).
W.
all this would eexplian why the charger that camewith my S2 dosen't appear to charge my phone fully over night...
For what it's worth I'm charging with a Note 1 charger...a thick shielded cable via the S3 docking station....and getting 900mah...
will get my original cable tonight and have a go tomorrow...
interesting read, my s4 lead and charger are still in the box and I'm using my nexus 10 ones phone charged from about 30% to full in just over 2. may have to change the old HTC £2 lead I've got connected to my works pc then, maybe why it's struggling to charge when playing music. guess this is one way to get people to buy more expensive cables
Very interesting read, thanks TS.
My original charger and cable set is still in the box; I've been using my Mom's old Galaxy Note charger.
I'll try the original cable + wall mount and see how fast it is compared to my current charger.
wmccann2 said:
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you show me your final cable with a pic? Thanks
After this thread I have stopped using my blackberry bold cable to charge s4 and of course the cheap one too.. thanks op!
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app
I'm not sure if shielded vs. unshielded is the difference - probably wire gauge is the difference.
For example, if you shop at Monoprice, you have two options for USB cables: 28 gauge cables, and 24/28 gauge cables.
For wire gauge, lower is larger - the 24/28 gauge cables have thicker wires for the + and GND lines. A pure 28 gauge cable is likely to drop voltage a bit at high currents, and my observations have been that most newer devices, ESPECIALLY Qualcomm-based ones, are VERY finicky when it comes to input voltage drops.
As to the charger itself:
Apple chargers are almost guaranteed not to charge at full current, as they don't conform at all to the USB battery charging standard. Some newer Android devices do have at least partial detection of Apple chargers, so they may charge at 1A if an Apple charger is detected (any Apple charge, even 2.1A ones).
It sounds like the included official charger is a tablet-compatible one. Samsung tablets expect D+ and D- to be held by the charger at 1.2 or 1.8 volts (I forget which). As a result, Samsung tablets will not charge from standard chargers (like an N7 charger), but standard devices (like an N7) will charge from Samsung tablet chargers.
Now, the question is: Does the GS4 *require* a Samsung tablet-style charger, or did Samsung just include a tablet-style charger because it's backwards-compatible with standard devices? (less part numbers to track in inventory).
A useful pair of points would be: Using the same cable, does the Samsung charger behave significantly different from a Nexus 7 charger?
wmccann2 said:
Hi,
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
Before: 450ma, after 1.73a
Then using a clamp meter I tested it with a 2amp Asus tablet charger - it varied between 1.48 and 1.61 amp.
I have since built a few more cables - one to use in my car (again 2 amp charger).
All in all, it works very effectively. Thanks for the initial research (saved me having to open my charger.)
BTW I suspect it is the charger where the resistors are, not the cable, otherwise the phone would try to pull 1.5a + from a laptop if you connected it.
Left my samsung cable at work so will test it tomorrow (if I remember)!
W.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this post on my first read-through: What happens if you just short D+ and D- when using the bench supply?
EDIT: SCROLL DOWN TO POST #12 WHERE I SHOW YOU HOW TO BUILD YOUR OWN FULL-1900 mAh CHARGER!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=43663686&postcount=12
-=========================================
Has anyone used this particular item before? Or can recommend a similar hard-wire unit that operates at 2A to 3A?
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converter-Connectors-Adapter-Recorder/dp/B00D6B6CJI
I'm thinking about getting one for my SUV and Motorcyle to charge the S4 at normal 1900 rates like the OEM wall-charger. Get that FAST charge.
Yes, I know about cig lighter chargers. No, that is not what this thread is for.
hello did you buy it?
CZ Eddie said:
Has anyone used this particular item before? Or can recommend a similar hard-wire unit that operates at 2A to 3A?
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converter-Connectors-Adapter-Recorder/dp/B00D6B6CJI
I'm thinking about getting one for my SUV and Motorcyle to charge the S4 at normal 1900 rates like the OEM wall-charger. Get that FAST charge.
Yes, I know about cig lighter chargers. No, that is not what this thread is for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have this hardwired into my WRX:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CDL-WaterPr...35?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item1c34627e83
I ran it off the clock circuit (my clock is dead anyways) but any switched 12v source will do. It charges my car integrated Nexus7 without any issues, and at the faster rate.
I have another powering a servo and an aux USB port, but unfortunately I ran so much wire to get it into the center console by the handbrake it charges at USB rates.
paolopaulpaul said:
hello did you buy it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not yet.
Caferacer said:
I have this hardwired into my WRX:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CDL-WaterPr...35?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item1c34627e83
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that's a great price! Does it charge at ~1900 rates? Here is an app that will tell you the charging rate:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ccc71.bmw&hl=en
Just bought this one for $9 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-waterpr...34?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item3a7a051922
It's a waterproof box so it'll be better on my Motorcycle. I'll let you guys know how it works out by next week sometime.
There was a thread somewhere that explained why some chargers won't do the 1900mah charge. He figured out where and what size resistors to put across the wires to enable it. I think it was in a car dock thread, I'll try and find it.
Sent from my de-Verizonized Galaxy S4, CleanRom style! (using Tapatalk beta 4)
CZ Eddie said:
Not yet.
Wow, that's a great price! Does it charge at ~1900 rates? Here is an app that will tell you the charging rate:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ccc71.bmw&hl=en
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That app won't show the mA on my N7 but does show it charging near the same % as a fast charger.
MonkeyTime said:
There was a thread somewhere that explained why some chargers won't do the 1900mah charge. He figured out where and what size resistors to put across the wires to enable it. I think it was in a car dock thread, I'll try and find it.
Sent from my de-Verizonized Galaxy S4, CleanRom style! (using Tapatalk beta 4)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the shorting/grounding of the data pins that activates 'fast charge' mode on some phones. Nexus 7's and my E4GT (Sprint S2) when I used it didn't require the pins to be shorted to charge faster. Mostly it was the charger (duh) and the quality/length of the cable that affected the charge speed. As well, most of the heavy 1A plus chargers short the data pins in the charger itself so you can use any cable. I believe the S4 doesn't require it as well, but don't have any data to confirm it.
The way I wired mine was to sacrifice a USB female port from a USB extender, and attached the power leads and shorted the data leads. Figured it couldn't hurt. The converter doesn't care if it's putting out 500mA or 3A. It's not intelligent like some chargers in what current it doles out.
Caferacer said:
shorted the data leads. Figured it couldn't hurt. The converter doesn't care if it's putting out 500mA or 3A. It's not intelligent like some chargers in what current it doles out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yours is the second post I've seen where someone has shorted the data pins on a charging-only setup. Is there a reason for doing that?
Ehh, n/m. I remembered the "Google before you ask" mantra...
This explains it nicely:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/194362-wont-charge-over-usb-car.html
MichaelBR said:
There are some reasons why it won't work, and some ways to solve it. First, let's understand how it works:
The USB cable has four pins. The inner two pins are where the data goes through. THe outer, power.
When the USB cable is plugged in to a computer, the data pins are connected normally and the phone knows it can only draw certain amount of power
When the cable is plugged in to a charger, the two middle pins are shorted, and the phone knows that it's NOT going to be sendind/receiving data, so it can draw as much power as it can. That's why it charges faster with the charger than when plugged in to a computer
Most chargers short the two pins. Some cables have a switch to do that.
There are different cable cauges as well, with different power capacities.
Some USB chargers, notably car chargers and some low-end (i.e. not good brand) chargers that don't draw from the car/don't give the phone as much current as it needs.
So, if any of below, the phone won't charge, or won't charge fast enough. Or, worse: it may appear as charging, but actually losing battery charge!
Cable too long or incorrect gauge
Middle pins not shorted for some reason
Charger doesn't deliver enough current
And the solutions are:
Don't use cable extensions, cables that are too long. Stick with the cable that came with the phone or with the charger
Get a good car charger, that delivers the right amount of current
I imagine you just got the cable from your original wall charger and plugged it in to the car charger. If you did that, then chances are the cable is OK, and the charger is the culprit. If this is the case, then get a better charger. Check how much current that charger can deliver. Check how much current your device actually needs.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CZ Eddie said:
Yours is the second post I've seen where someone has shorted the data pins on a charging-only setup. Is there a reason for doing that?
Ehh, n/m. I remembered the "Google before you ask" mantra...
This explains it nicely:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s3/194362-wont-charge-over-usb-car.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be clear, there is no indication it is *required* for the S4. Mine quick charges just fine without shorted data leads. However I did this because my friends have a variety of phones and it only took a few minutes to do.
Caferacer said:
That app won't show the mA on my N7 but does show it charging near the same % as a fast charger.
It's the shorting/grounding of the data pins that activates 'fast charge' mode on some phones. Nexus 7's and my E4GT (Sprint S2) when I used it didn't require the pins to be shorted to charge faster. Mostly it was the charger (duh) and the quality/length of the cable that affected the charge speed. As well, most of the heavy 1A plus chargers short the data pins in the charger itself so you can use any cable. I believe the S4 doesn't require it as well, but don't have any data to confirm it.
The way I wired mine was to sacrifice a USB female port from a USB extender, and attached the power leads and shorted the data leads. Figured it couldn't hurt. The converter doesn't care if it's putting out 500mA or 3A. It's not intelligent like some chargers in what current it doles out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Caferacer said:
To be clear, there is no indication it is *required* for the S4. Mine quick charges just fine without shorted data leads. However I did this because my friends have a variety of phones and it only took a few minutes to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with what you posted in general terms, below is the link to the thread I was talking about. He did some testing and found the pins aren't just shorted, but shorted w/ 82K resistors to get the maximum charging current.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2274321
Will it damage the phone to have a 3A charger plugged into it? Also If it does not damage would it be able to run the camera as a "blackbox" and not die? I currently have a 2a charger and when i use the black box software it dies after about an hour or so.
SUCCESS!
I got the little black box in from eBay.
Gave it a quick/test wire setup. This is NOT indicative of the end result which will be soldered & have shrink tubing, etc.
Okay, first I grabbed my stock S3 data/charge cable.
Snipped off the standard USB end.
Cut off the ends of the pin 2 & 3 wires since they were not being used anymore (data pins).
Then attached the red (power) from the S3 cable to the yellow (power) lead from the little black box. And did the same for the black (negative) leads.
Then hard wired the red & black from the little black box to my motorcycle battery terminals.
On the first test, I only got 460mAh.
Then I decided to short the 2 & 3 pin wires (green & white) on the S3 cable together (attach them to each other). This gave me 1120mAh!
Next I took the tin-foil and wire braid from the S3 cable and tied them together with the negative lead on the S3 cable. This gave me 1220mAh!
Still not satisfied, I then cut down the 5' S3 cable and made it a 1.5' cable.
AND THIS RESULTED IN A FULL 1920mAh!!!! Right on.
That is exactly the same mAh as the stock S4 wall charger & cable combo give me. Very stoked about this. So now I'll do a nice clean install on the bike and then duplicate it for my car dock sometime soon. FULL CHARGE AHEAD!
Crxdc said:
Will it damage the phone to have a 3A charger plugged into it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it will be fine. The phone only draws 1900mAh. If the phone were drawing 3000mAh then there might be a problem.
All done and installed now. And working great!
Negative battery connection (I forgot to shrink tube it but will do that later).
Braided negative wire (~16 to 18awg?) running under gas tank to front of bike.
I wish I would have waited till I got black zip ties in. I hate white zip ties.
The braided wire at the right side of pic that goes up above the gas tank is the pos/neg wire lead that plus right into the phone.
2A inline fuse connecting via blade connector (sorry MC) to a previously used power-on-ignition wire.
This goes to (+) on the little black box.
Note the shrink tube over the braid over the crimp connector (wire goes to top-right of screen).
Phone sitting next to the phone dock I made out of a holster that came with my phone case.
You can see the braided/shrink tubed MicroUSB connector already plugged into the phone.
It's not showing a charge though, because the ignition key is not turned on.
Phone is inserted into stable dock (it will never fall out unless I crash hard).
Ignition is turned on and battery is charging!
And proof that it's charging at the full 1900mAh. Success!
CZ Eddie said:
All done and installed now. And working great!
Negative battery connection (I forgot to shrink tube it but will do that later).
Braided negative wire (~16 to 18awg?) running under gas tank to front of bike.
I wish I would have waited till I got black zip ties in. I hate white zip ties.
The braided wire at the right side of pic that goes up above the gas tank is the pos/neg wire lead that plus right into the phone.
2A inline fuse connecting via blade connector (sorry MC) to a previously used power-on-ignition wire.
This goes to (+) on the little black box.
Note the shrink tube over the braid over the crimp connector (wire goes to top-right of screen).
Phone sitting next to the phone dock I made out of a holster that came with my phone case.
You can see the braided/shrink tubed MicroUSB connector already plugged into the phone.
It's not showing a charge though, because the ignition key is not turned on.
Phone is inserted into stable dock (it will never fall out unless I crash hard).
Ignition is turned on and battery is charging!
And proof that it's charging at the full 1900mAh. Success!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome.
Hard wire phone charger and Bluetooth Receiver to car battery plan...
Hello,
I'm planning to install the following in my car along with new stereo head unit:
1) CraigsDocks Samsung Galaxy S4 docking charger, with USB power out
2) Rocketfish Bluetooth Music Receiver (with aptX), with DC 5V power out (connected to 3' 5V to USB power cable)
Plan to use this to convert (found on EBAY - I can't post links here in XDA yet/new user): Dual USB Cable Connectors Power Adapters 8-22V 12 V to 5V/3A DC Volt Converters... to connect directly to my car battery to power both the Samsung charger and the Rocketfish.
I'm new at this and I'm wondering if you all think this will work, or if I'm missing any steps, or if there are other better suggestions?
Thanks for your help!
ebrowni said:
Hello,
I'm planning to install the following in my car along with new stereo head unit:
1) CraigsDocks Samsung Galaxy S4 docking charger, with USB power out
2) Rocketfish Bluetooth Music Receiver (with aptX), with DC 5V power out (connected to 3' 5V to USB power cable)
Plan to use this to convert (found on EBAY - I can't post links here in XDA yet/new user): Dual USB Cable Connectors Power Adapters 8-22V 12 V to 5V/3A DC Volt Converters... to connect directly to my car battery to power both the Samsung charger and the Rocketfish.
I'm new at this and I'm wondering if you all think this will work, or if I'm missing any steps, or if there are other better suggestions?
Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks good to me. :good:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-Ca...064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51af639938
ebrowni said:
Hello,
I'm planning to install the following in my car along with new stereo head unit:
1) CraigsDocks Samsung Galaxy S4 docking charger, with USB power out
2) Rocketfish Bluetooth Music Receiver (with aptX), with DC 5V power out (connected to 3' 5V to USB power cable)
Plan to use this to convert (found on EBAY - I can't post links here in XDA yet/new user): Dual USB Cable Connectors Power Adapters 8-22V 12 V to 5V/3A DC Volt Converters... to connect directly to my car battery to power both the Samsung charger and the Rocketfish.
I'm new at this and I'm wondering if you all think this will work, or if I'm missing any steps, or if there are other better suggestions?
Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just realize that if you wire it to your batter there will be a small draw from the converter and chargers even when not in use. If you let your car sit for a week or long weekend you might come out to find the battery dead. I personally wouldn't wire anything directly to the battery, especially since you didn't mention an inline fuse. Find a switched 12v lead inside the car. Not only does this protect your phone, charger, and car, but it also means you don't have to run anything through the firewall, which is a pain.
You can either tie into the cig lighter wiring, or find something else (I used my clock circuit since it runs to a 10A fuse and is switched).
Caferacer said:
Just realize that if you wire it to your batter there will be a small draw from the converter and chargers even when not in use. If you let your car sit for a week or long weekend you might come out to find the battery dead. I personally wouldn't wire anything directly to the battery, especially since you didn't mention an inline fuse. Find a switched 12v lead inside the car. Not only does this protect your phone, charger, and car, but it also means you don't have to run anything through the firewall, which is a pain.
You can either tie into the cig lighter wiring, or find something else (I used my clock circuit since it runs to a 10A fuse and is switched).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your clock circuit is switched?
I agree with the firewall being a pita, but I'm not a huge fan of tapping on to other circuits either. With nothing charging, what would be drawing any current? If there's anything, it would have to be minimal. It also allows you to charge a phone/device with the car not running, sometimes very handy (and a modification I've made before for just that reason). An inline fuse is also a must, good point!
Sent from my de-Verizonized Galaxy S4, CleanRom style! (using Tapatalk beta 4)
MonkeyTime said:
Your clock circuit is switched?
I agree with the firewall being a pita, but I'm not a huge fan of tapping on to other circuits either. With nothing charging, what would be drawing any current? If there's anything, it would have to be minimal. It also allows you to charge a phone/device with the car not running, sometimes very handy (and a modification I've made before for just that reason). An inline fuse is also a must, good point!
Sent from my de-Verizonized Galaxy S4, CleanRom style! (using Tapatalk beta 4)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my clock circuit has a switched lead to wake up the clock as well as a hard wired lead to retain the time. Both run to the same 10A fuse.
There is a small transformer in the converter and the receiver bluetooth will stay on. They have a small energy draw which is not negligible over a long period of time. At the very least I would include a dash mounted switch to completely shut the charger and receiver off. For instance I have a bluetooth OBD adapter (Not too much unlike your bluetooth receiver) that drained a 2 year old car battery over a week I left the car sitting while I was on vacation. For day to day driving it's not a problem but my OBD adapter isn't hardwired and I can just remove it when I know the car will be sitting.
Thanks
Caferacer said:
Just realize that if you wire it to your batter there will be a small draw from the converter and chargers even when not in use. If you let your car sit for a week or long weekend you might come out to find the battery dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oooh, good point! Makes sense to me. I have never done a mod to my car's audio system so I'll be paying a professional installer. I'm so glad to have this information before I shop around at the good places here and get some offers!
Thank you!
Hi,
I would like to create list of car chargers that are able to charge N5 in AC mode.
Till now I have found only one review on Amazon on: "PowerGen Dual USB 3.1A Car charger".
Sorry, but I still can't post links.
I want to buy something that works for sure.
So, please share your real life experience...
armourer1 said:
Hi,
I would like to create list of car chargers that are able to charge N5 in AC mode.
Till now I have found only one review on Amazon on: "PowerGen Dual USB 3.1A Car charger".
Sorry, but I still can't post links.
I want to buy something that works for sure.
So, please share your real life experience...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-Dual-...5839252&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+usb+car+charger is working fine, it has 2 ports one of which says it is for apple but works just fine on any device both ports charge over 2 Amps.
Ady1976
Thanks for replay,
Can you please Goto Settings -> About -> Status -> Battery Status: and verify that you see Charging (AC) ?
I am also able to charge with old Griffin charger, but it only works with "Charging (USB)" - 0.5A.
Thanks...
armourer1 said:
Ady1976
Thanks for replay,
Can you please Goto Settings -> About -> Status -> Battery Status: and verify that you see Charging (AC) ?
I am also able to charge with old Griffin charger, but it only works with "Charging (USB)" - 0.5A.
Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, yes it does say charging by (AC)
Ady1976
Thanks a lot !
Now I have one more charger to choose from -
0.5A is USB level so that's why that one doesn't work, anything that charges at 1A or over should be fine.
b1g1an said:
0.5A is USB level so that's why that one doesn't work, anything that charges at 1A or over should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My charger is capable of driving more than 0.5A, but the phone don't "understand' it.
Android determines that a charger is a wall charger (as opposed to a computer) by the fact that the data ports are shorted together. Apple chargers don't do this, so most chargers made for Apple products will only charge Android devices at 0.5A. Heck, almost no car chargers do, unless they were made specifically for an Android device. Here's what I did:
I ordered this Griffin car charger, mainly because of the size. It just BARELY sticks out of the car's charging plug. Then, I ordered the Nexus Wireless Charger, and used the cable it came with (minus the wall plug). Presto... Qi wireless charging in my car. The magnets hold the N5 in place nicely so it doesn't slide off the charger in my center console, and the charger I linked easily supplies the 1.8A that the Nexus Charger expects.
The catch is that this charger was designed for an Apple product, so I had to carefully pry it apart and short the center two USB pins with solder using a soldering iron (those are the data pins).
EDIT: I should point out here that the Nexus charger may work fine without shorting the pins. I didn't test it. I wanted the ability to quick charge via cable if necessary, since Qi charging is a bit slower, so I shorted the pins, but if all you're interested in is Qi charging, you may be able to get by without modifying the charger. If someone wants to test this, please let us know.
jt3
Thanks for the info. I have some kind of Griffin charger with 2 USB ports.
So, I will try to do the same - shorten data pins inside the charger.
I will post it works
Just an FYI, I was charging with a charger that listed AC mode last weekend yet it wasn't charging faster than the power was draining.
Not all the AC modes officially charge at a faster pace unfortunately. My Galaxy Nexus car dock charger though did charge it at a proper AC pace.
What took me a little while to figure out is that this issue may not be as related to the charger as it is to the cable. I tried 3 different car chargers and none of them would keep up with GPS battery drain in the car. I figured out that common to all 3 chargers that I was trying was the cable. So I bought this cable and now all 3 of the same chargers work great. I am finding that even at 1.0A you can keep up with the gps battery drain. At 1.5 amps or greater you can charge the battery in the car while using GPS full time.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0088HTYUE/ref=ya_aw_oh_pit
jalanjkcarp said:
What took me a little while to figure out is that this issue may not be as related to the charger as it is to the cable. I tried 3 different car chargers and none of them would keep up with GPS battery drain in the car. I figured out that common to all 3 chargers that I was trying was the cable. So I bought this cable and now all 3 of the same chargers work great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is because some "charge only" cables don't have data pins at all (usually, because they came with a charging dock of some sort, or were designed for devices other than Android). Remember, I said earlier that Android notices that it's on a charger when the data pins are shorted. If they're missing completely, then it will only charge at 0.5A.
My rule of thumb is to stay far - far away from charge-only cables.
I bought a "2.1A Car Charger" with a single USB port (made by PNY....Amazon for about $6 shipped)... opened it up and soldered a bridge between the middle 2 USB pins.
Previously it reported Charging (USB), now I get Charging (AC). Confirmed with a widget that showed charging amps, the number went way way up.
Presumably any of these chargers claiming high-amp output will only work with iDevices, I guess they ignore the USB standard that if the two middle pins are bridged, its a power-only connection and full power can flow.
I did test this on an HTC One X running 4.2 and it reports Charging USB though, so there is a dependency on one of the newer Android kernels (my N5 runs 4.4.2)
Edit: oh yea... with my newly modded charger, I tested turning on Bluetooth streaming audio to my car, GPS on, navigation running, screen on, 100% bright, and wifi tethering enabled, and i STILL had a net charge going.
I've just bought a Blackberry Premium In-Vehicle Charger and my N5 recognizes it as an AC charger. The phone pulls around 1A from it (it's good for up to 1.8A). This is it, though I purchased mine from a local store.