Database Info

Severe security flaw in HTC-sense, sensation affected.!!!

Ran accross this article just now, relized you all had to read this. It appears HTC ****** up hard.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/1...e-numbers-gps-sms-emails-addresses-much-more/
Scary stuff.
I'm so damn tired of all companies taking the liberty to just monitor our lifes just how they like, no matter if its google, microsoft, facebook, apple or HTC. What anoyys even more is how we passivly is forced into accepting it, and just shrudd our shoulders about it. Reading this, I wish I was smart enough to strike back somehow.

The article says "Some Sensations" I'd like to know what that means

Good find.

Pikabat said:
The article says "Some Sensations" I'd like to know what that means
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try running the app...

errr ok this is scary though. i wanna ask what's htcLaputa.apk is?
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using xda premium

The offending app is HtcLogger.apk and I've only seen it in the newer ROMs - I automatically removed it before this story broke as it didn't sound useful. End of the day you just have to be careful when you install new apps (e.g. direct from trusted sources)
I really wouldn't worry too much about it, typical media hype

EddyOS said:
The offending app is HtcLogger.apk and I've only seen it in the newer ROMs - I automatically removed it before this story broke as it didn't sound useful. End of the day you just have to be careful when you install new apps (e.g. direct from trusted sources)
I really wouldn't worry too much about it, typical media hype
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the example of how we/some of us just go used to this kind of things and started to accept things we never would have a few years back.
How exactly do you determine whats a trusted source? Obviously weve already had a bunch of malwares entering the market.

I use apps only from the company in question. 'Facebook for Android' from Facebook, 'Twitter' from Twitter, etc...only use about 20 apps all in anyway so I don't think I'm at risk
I'm not saying what's been found out isn't bad - it is - I just don't really care. People are far too paranoid these days

EddyOS said:
I use apps only from the company in question. 'Facebook for Android' from Facebook, 'Twitter' from Twitter, etc...only use about 20 apps all in anyway so I don't think I'm at risk
I'm not saying what's been found out isn't bad - it is - I just don't really care. People are far too paranoid these days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not using so much apps either, on the other hand I want to be able to try some "fun" app from androidmarket without fearing theft og my personal information.
Its not about paranoia to me, I couldnt care less about wheter or not some random dude can read my sms. But Im rather angry about the companies doing just as they like, mainly to direct commercials and ads conected to your personality. Did you know facebook, after their latest update, now saves a certain cookie after your logout and sends all urls you visit with your browser back to their server..?
Well, now Im going offtopic in my own thread.
Id like to see HTC comment on this atleast.

Again, if Facebook care if I open a YouTube video every now and then then that's up to them - I'm not interesting!!
Would be nice to see what HTC say but I'm not going to hold my breath!

Im starting to loose faith in htc
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium

I tried to run the app, seems like my Sensation is not affected (Dutch one, that is)

so, in order to gain any kind of advantage, those apps need to know this vulnerability exists, am i right? just deleted that apk file, along with some other ones.

As the Android Police blog appears to have melted, here's Aunty's take on it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15149588
Oh noes naughty people can access:
The list of user accounts, including email addresses (but apparently not usernames or passwords)
A log of recent GPS locations (so you can be stalked!!!!)
Phone numbers taken from recent call logs (so people you call can be stalked!!!)
SMS data, including recent numbers and encoded messages (meh if they want to read "Park 123 543" be my guest)
HTC's response:
"HTC takes our customers' security very seriously, and we are working to investigate this claim as quickly as possible," the company said in a statement.
"We will provide an update as soon as we're able to determine the accuracy of the claim and what steps, if any, need to be taken."

EddyOS said:
The offending app is HtcLogger.apk and I've only seen it in the newer ROMs - I automatically removed it before this story broke as it didn't sound useful. End of the day you just have to be careful when you install new apps (e.g. direct from trusted sources)
I really wouldn't worry too much about it, typical media hype
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a way to tell if the offending app (Htclogger.apk) is on your phone without rooting?

jggonzalez said:
Is there a way to tell if the offending app (Htclogger.apk) is on your phone without rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember it appears you are absolutely fine unless you install an app which is written to access the log files.

As Androidpolice says, the info could be used to clone your device, not only read some of your contacts. Now of course, you are fine as long as you do not install any malicious app, but I would even feel uncomfortable knowing that HTC can read ANY activity from my device at ANY point in time WITHOUT asking for my permission (or even after I denied that permission as shown in the video). The VNC thingie would also bug me cuz it is an app without any apparent use for the user and it does not serve a specific purpose - its just there until "someone" needs it. Now of course HTC wants to improve on user feedback and pulling it is much more convenient than asking for it, but if they want my opinion and see what I'm using they should at least ask me for it. That said, let's hope HTC addresses this problem in the very near future and does clarify why those apps are there and what purpose they serve. I will run the test app again after the next OTA for sure.

kwiggington said:
Im starting to loose faith in htc
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think HTC is the problem.
I believe the problem is Google.
Ever go to the Google Android market place and see what they want to run in the background before they let you in?
I don't go near the place.

majesensei said:
As Androidpolice says, the info could be used to clone your device, not only read some of your contacts. Now of course, you are fine as long as you do not install any malicious app, but I would even feel uncomfortable knowing that HTC can read ANY activity from my device at ANY point in time WITHOUT asking for my permission (or even after I denied that permission as shown in the video).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're misssing the point.
The phone has this feature so that should you enable "Tell HTC" it can then send the info to HTC, if you don't enable that it just sits on your phone as a system log.

xaccers said:
You're misssing the point.
The phone has this feature so that should you enable "Tell HTC" it can then send the info to HTC, if you don't enable that it just sits on your phone as a system log.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, and I agree that this is not a scary thing for itself. I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, but think about a combination of things: The log is created and sits there. There is a VNC client embedded deeply in your system by your manufacturer for no reason, which gives access to your device from a remote location. I am from Germany and used to a debate about data preservation (which is illegal, in Germany), but there are other countries that have a much broader "grey-zone" for these kind of things. I wonder where those Sensations with the HtcLogger.apk are ([email protected]?). We are all running the same Android build (as long as we don't root our phones), some are affected, others aren't. I just find it weird, and I doubt that some rogue dev at HTC programmed these apk's just for the fun of it.

Security from physical theft/abuse of the WiFi Only Transformer Pad Infinity TF700

(Prospective TF700 buyer here.)
So since the device is WiFi only for most of us, no apps that provide post-theft security via receiving an SMS message are applicable.
I can't think of any way to get the tablet back or find its location post-theft. It would be nice if there was a security app that could act of receiving a specific e-mail instead of SMS.
Aside from post-theft action, before theft I know we can use a password to secure the contents of the tablet. But is the built in screen lock via password the best means to secure it?
I just wanted to foster some discussion and ideas around this topic. Since it's much harder than with a phone. Feel free to chime in with whatever is on your mind related to this subject.

Darnell_Chat_TN said:
(Prospective TF700 buyer here.)
So since the device is WiFi only for most of us, no apps that provide post-theft security via receiving an SMS message are applicable.
I can't think of any way to get the tablet back or find its location post-theft. It would be nice if there was a security app that could act of receiving a specific e-mail instead of SMS.
Aside from post-theft action, before theft I know we can use a password to secure the contents of the tablet. But is the built in screen lock via password the best means to secure it?
I just wanted to foster some discussion and ideas around this topic. Since it's much harder than with a phone. Feel free to chime in with whatever is on your mind related to this subject.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a valuable way for this kind of thinks and imo it's better than any app.But also keep in mind that even so if you lost your device it will not be easy to get it back,but atleast you could destroy your personal data.Oh,and even if it was a 3G model,the first thing a thief will do is shutting down the device and throw out the SIM.

Pretoriano80 said:
This is a valuable way for this kind of thinks and imo it's better than any app.But also keep in mind that even so if you lost your device it will not be easy to get it back,but atleast you could destroy your personal data.Oh,and even if it was a 3G model,the first thing a thief will do is shutting down the device and throw out the SIM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
Far as what the thief will do depends on their intelligence . The one who took my wife's phone kept the SIM in to use our plan as their own.

There are several antivirus apps available that provide remote wiping (abd/or locking) functionality and such, although I do not know if they can turn on WiFi and report the device's location in the process.

I guess Asus Device Tracker will have to do for me.
I do share some of the concerns of the OP in that other thread, but for me it beats nothing.

Device encryption. Takes awhile to do but the device will be useless without the pin. I have been meaning to turn it on, I just never have my charger handy when I think of doing it. Maybe tonight...

Unfortunately Android device encryption slows down the device (which isn't the fastest anyway in our case) and drains battery faster. It cannot be undone without the full wipe, too. It is nothing like TrueCrypt in these respects.
Edit: It seems it can give you some problems with rooting, ROMs and others, too, which makes it a wildcard, although I'd love to use it. Apart from that, it's far from perfect security, as enabling debugging mode will still allow adb access without PIN verification if the device is powered and after the pre-boot PIN verification (which it probably will be when stolen).
WhisperCore looks interesting, but it says Temporarily Unavailable where the download link should be present.

MartyHulskemper said:
There are several antivirus apps available that provide remote wiping (abd/or locking) functionality and such, although I do not know if they can turn on WiFi and report the device's location in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most work via SMS.

You might be interested in another aspect of Device Tracker: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=30305551&postcount=21

d14b0ll0s said:
You might be interested in another aspect of Device Tracker: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=30305551&postcount=21
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So nevermind using Asus Device Tracker given that news .
And device encryption just has too many negative side effects for me personally.
So there's no decent 3rd party app and we can't trust Asus any further than we can throw one of their techs.
It seems the only security for me at this time is encrypting the most sensitive data via an app just for those pieces of data and general physical security.

d14b0ll0s said:
Unfortunately Android device encryption slows down the device (which isn't the fastest anyway in our case) and drains battery faster. It cannot be undone without the full wipe, too. It is nothing like TrueCrypt in these respects.
Edit: It seems it can give you some problems with rooting, ROMs and others, too, which makes it a wildcard, although I'd love to use it. Apart from that, it's far from perfect security, as enabling debugging mode will still allow adb access without PIN verification if the device is powered and after the pre-boot PIN verification (which it probably will be when stolen).
WhisperCore looks interesting, but it says Temporarily Unavailable where the download link should be present.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be weary of device encryption if you plan on doing anything to the tablet other than keeping it fully stock. I'm not even sure how OTA updates are handled. Granted the situation is a bit different (and totally my fault) but I encrypted my HD on my laptop (TrueCrypt) which was awesome at first. I didn't see a noticeable depreciation in speed and felt a lot more comfortable . I decided to try a dev build of Win8 one day, so I partitioned my drive and installed through the Win8 setup process. Short version is that my encrypted partition fot trashed and I lost all of my data that wasn't backed up yet.
So yea, be careful when you encrypt.

[OT] Actually, according to TrueCrypt, Windows installer should only change your bootloader and rescue boot from a removable memory should do the trick with recovering TrueCrypt MBA. Did it wipe your data or just the boot record?
---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
So nevermind using Asus Device Tracker given that news .
And device encryption just has too many negative side effects for me personally.
So there's no decent 3rd party app and we can't trust Asus any further than we can throw one of their techs.
It seems the only security for me at this time is encrypting the most sensitive data via an app just for those pieces of data and general physical security.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think partial encryption is fine, but of course can be compromised easier when not everything is encrypted.
As to third-party apps, I believe there's a lot of these, but after this ASUS example I'm not sure I want to use any of them.
In case you still want sth like that, just have a look at Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=anti+theft&c=apps

I'm not sure what it actually did at the end of the day (can't remember). I THINK it would only boot to the Win8 partition and while the other partition was there I couldn't access it from anything (I vaguely recall the partition showing up saying that it was 0% full). I tried to restore the MBR and I ran a few different analysis tools to see if I could recover files.
After a few days I decided that it wasn't worth it. It as almost a year ago and most of my stuff was backed up, I really only lost some music and some pictures. I decided to cut my losses, reformat everything, and reinstall Windows7.

d14b0ll0s said:
...
As to third-party apps, I believe there's a lot of these, but after this ASUS example I'm not sure I want to use any of them.
In case you still want sth like that, just have a look at Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=anti+theft&c=apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of these actually look pretty good to me . It would be nice if they made them to work with your own personal machine and not their servers, but they obviously need to use a model that makes them money :laugh: .
Unlike Asus, 3rd party app makers don't hold the device warranty in their hands. They survive off me willing to use and trust their services.

When you're rooted then I recommend Cerberus I use on both my phone and the tablet. I had luckily never the chance to use it in a real situation but from my testing I can tell that it works really good.
It has a trial version so you can test it before buying.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

avast! is the answer
Seems as if avast! Mobile Security can do everything the Asus Device Tracker can do. And even more, since it also has a virus scanner, firewall, network meter, SMS/call blocker and more other features than I care to remember. And it's FREE. All that and no worries of losing warranty.
avast! can lock the device tight via a web site, wipe it and more. And it can be configured to not be easily removed. So it's the answer to me.

No lag...runnin like a boss!...for simple folk

Delete

lucius.zen said:
A lot of people have been complaining about UI and browsing lag. I have absolutely no lag, I thought it was because I have cleanROM, but ppl with custom ROMS still complain about lag. I am like Mary Poppins when it comes to keeping my infinity clean, which has led me to beleive the lag most people see is because they have too many homescreens, widgets, and unnecessary crapware. It doesnt matter how powerful your machine is if it is not used efficiently it will lag. If you want to get rid of lag, consider using a simpler set up. I only have 1 homescreen, 3 widgets, zero icons anywhere (including app drawer). I only have 12 downloaded apps, and only 1 runs in the background - GMD Gesture Conrol - which allows me to access everything i need at anytime with no more than 2 gestures. This allows me to multitask like a beast and delete everything else (widgets, icons, homescreens, etc.). The moral of the story is.....
Take a very long hard look at every app, every setting, and every widget, and ask yourself "is this really necessary" - If you would rather throw away your tablet then disable it, keep it, if not, get rid of it.
I havent disabled all animations either, just the unnecessary ones, looking good and being functional are not mutually exclusive.....in all walks of life lol
When in doubt, remeber the adage....
Aint nobody dope as me im dressed so fresh so clean
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although, obviously, I agree that loading up any device to the very brim with crap, I hardly believe that the developers in here (who are much more experienced, I assume, than you and me combined) haven't looked at that aspect as well. I myself have a spartan desktop (no icons, no widgets), but even then I sense some lag here and there.
It's device-specific to boot, so I think -- speaking generally -- it's a bit too easy to tell people to throw their widgets and icons off the homescreen and TADAAA... the lag is gone. I think it is more complicated. I'm happy it works for you, though.

MartyHulskemper said:
Although, obviously, I agree that loading up any device to the very brim with crap, I hardly believe that the developers in here (who are much more experienced, I assume, than you and me combined) haven't looked at that aspect as well. I myself have a spartan desktop (no icons, no widgets), but even then I sense some lag here and there.
It's device-specific to boot, so I think -- speaking generally -- it's a bit too easy to tell people to throw their widgets and icons off the homescreen and TADAAA... the lag is gone. I think it is more complicated. I'm happy it works for you, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There a lot less developers on here than you think, take a look at some of the questions that are asked, its not hard to tell most people on here are not developers (also why this is posted in the "general" section). I agree that while we each have the same hardware, not all hardware is equal, manufacturing isnt perfect, no doubt, not all cpus of the same model get the same performance. Also, take a look at some of the homescreens, etc, that are posted, and its somewhat obvious that most people do not have a spartan setup. While I am not suggesting people throw everything away, something simple like cleaning the hell out of your system can make a significant difference, more so than what a general user would expect. This advice is obviously NOT for developers who know their stuff lol

lucius.zen said:
There's a lot less developers on here than you think. Take a look at some of the questions that are asked....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe your user experience input is a good thing!
Most Androidians myself as well are not the all knowing developer types.
What I see most is folks just wanting basic info to reach a fully functioning comfort level.
When someone like yourself can speak in simple terms and offer a boot up all the better!
The Infinity forum is one of the best.
There are some great folks in here!

I hope I have articulated this reply a bit better (and nicer) than my first one. It was running late ( deep into the night already) after a pretty busy day, and I still had a lot of stuff to do. Not good for my energy level and state of mind, LOL. I apologize if you felt crossed, or if I hit a nerve. That was never my intention.
lucius.zen said:
There a lot less developers on here than you think, take a look at some of the questions that are asked, its not hard to tell most people on here are not developers (also why this is posted in the "general" section).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree, but I wasn't referring to them and their own devices -- rather, it's them who develop the ROMs we are running, and they are doing pretty amazing stuff eliminating lag at its basis. Keeping a system clean is the cherry on that cake.
I agree that while we each have the same hardware, not all hardware is equal, manufacturing isnt perfect, no doubt, not all cpus of the same model get the same performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was exactly my point regarding the effect being device-specific -- both in regards to the origin of the lag and the solution to that nasty issue.
Also, take a look at some of the homescreens, etc, that are posted, and its somewhat obvious that most people do not have a spartan setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You formulated that quite nicely. I am a bit surprised that some people can actually get their 700 to boot up with all the crap.
While I am not suggesting people throw everything away, something simple like cleaning the hell out of your system can make a significant difference, more so than what a general user would expect. This advice is obviously NOT for developers who know their stuff lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Thats_OK said, I, too, are thankful you're speaking up, and give the newbies to Android in general and the ones in here specifically a pointer. I only deplored the fact that you didn't hit oil, or a gold vein, in terms of solving lags. And I just wanted to point out -- just to clarify my point regarding the devs coming into to play here -- that, as long as you pick a solid custom ROM, you already get a tweaked system that is less sensitivie to lag out of the box, and that a large proportion of that lag is hardware-based, and is here to stay (unfortunately).

I f I got a euro for every idiot that keeps his/her desktop absolutely loaded with rubbish, and then complains about lag, I'd be in the Quote 500.
Regardless of the OS, the more crap you have running and deposited on your desktop, the slower it becomes.
Every single fancy Widget, Launcher, Overlay, LWP, App, Shortcut or bloody Popup slows your system down.
No developer can defend him/herself and their ROM against idiots who think it's a good idea to put their entire app drawer on their homescreens along with half a dozen sticky notes and some funny clocks and other random crap. You can release the cleanest ROM you can think of, but if an ignorant user puts a hundred apps on the homescreen and runs a heavy Live Wallpaper, it'll lag.
People also need to learn to shut down useless processes. Pressing the home key whilst in a game shuts it down on a phone, it DOESN'T do so on a tablet. At least, not this one. It keeps running. It does on occasion help to go into Settings-->Apps-->Running and kill all remaining games, apps and junk. And then going into Cached Processes (top right), and doing the same thing again. A cached game still uses part of the system.

Just to play devils advocate here, one of the big "pluses" of Android is the fact that it has widgets! Personally, I have 3 home screens and probably a total of about 10 widgets total. But, there is no way in hell that I'm going to dump these widgets as they are *extremely* useful and one of the reasons that I switched to Android in the first place!
That being said, my system runs perfectly on CleanROM using the *stock* kernel. I used to run Clemsyns' kernel, but with the latest version of CleanROM, I've found that the stock kernel actually seems to run better (and also allows unlimited email sync, which for some strange reason, goes away with Cleamsyn kernel)... Even the animations seem smoother on the stock kernel now...
I also use an app called WidgetLocker, which allows you to place widgets on the lock screen, so that my lock screen looks like this (excuse the crude editing to protect the innocent!):
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
With this, a simple press of the power button (or moving my bluetooth mouse when at work) gives me *tons* of useful information *very* quickly! I couldn't live without it at this point (my main home screen is similar, but different).
I guess I'm just trying to say that if you are going to abandon widgets and homescreen, etc - then you just lost a *big* benefit of Android!
You *can* still use widgets (even a lot of them) and multiple home screen and still get great performance. I don't want new users to get the wrong idea from this thread!
Also, I *never* manually stop any processes and never have a problem... Again, you shouldn't have to worry about killing processes to get a good-running system.
Just my two cents!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

I think jtrosky is right, and this occurred to me last night when going over the post after having replied: essentially, we're talking about usability. Optimizing that should mean to strike a balance between raw power (i.e., absence of lag, amongst other criteria) and the added bonus of having information at your proverbial fingertips. It's very inefficient if you have to enter a specific application every time you need that little scrap of information (whether that is a weather forecast or an e-mail header or something).

While I appreciate the gesture of sharing the information, I have to question the rationale behind all the suggestions in the OP. Of course the device will lag here and there, but it is still usable out of the box. Why would I want to refrain from using features that are so useful like widgets and multiple home screens just to make other things that I don't need run faster (for instance, faster boot time)? Most importantly, limiting the number of apps installed is not an option, at least to people like me who use the tablet to replace my laptop most of the time.
If lags really bug you guys this much, someone may have to start working on porting iOS to our Infinity. Then there would be no complaint about widgets and multiple home screen slowing you down.
Anyway, I just want to share my point of view. No intention to start an unnecessary argument.

I think I need to clarify some things I meant.
An App you use and an App that's just there.
Some (many) have the weather widget on their homescreen, but never look at it or even update it. It's the first thing I deleted
Email widgets. If you only get one/two emails per day, and/or if you keep WiFi off all the time, there's really no point in keeping it on your homescreen.
Some, (and I'm guilty of this. All my games, anyway.) have all their apps on their homescrees as well. The app drawer is only one tap away.
News widgets, when you keep WiFi off.
Three or four different keyboards at once. I once had Swiftkey, Hackers and Asus running at once. This slowed down my system, while I only used one of them,
Live wallpapers. Some are so resource-heavy that they cause a lot of lag. Fine if you like it, but don't whine your system lags.

MartyHulskemper said:
I hope I have articulated this reply a bit better (and nicer) than my first one. It was running late ( deep into the night already) after a pretty busy day, and I still had a lot of stuff to do. Not good for my energy level and state of mind, LOL. I apologize if you felt crossed, or if I hit a nerve. That was never my intention.
I fully agree, but I wasn't referring to them and their own devices -- rather, it's them who develop the ROMs we are running, and they are doing pretty amazing stuff eliminating lag at its basis. Keeping a system clean is the cherry on that cake.That was exactly my point regarding the effect being device-specific -- both in regards to the origin of the lag and the solution to that nasty issue.You formulated that quite nicely. I am a bit surprised that some people can actually get their 700 to boot up with all the crap. As Thats_OK said, I, too, are thankful you're speaking up, and give the newbies to Android in general and the ones in here specifically a pointer. I only deplored the fact that you didn't hit oil, or a gold vein, in terms of solving lags. And I just wanted to point out -- just to clarify my point regarding the devs coming into to play here -- that, as long as you pick a solid custom ROM, you already get a tweaked system that is less sensitivie to lag out of the box, and that a large proportion of that lag is hardware-based, and is here to stay (unfortunately).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, insalling a custom ROM is the best way to go to fix lag, and the developers on here are bad ASS!
I think people who do end up with great setups with reduced lag should share more in general, considering how many people post about having really negative experiences.

jtrosky said:
Just to play devils advocate here, one of the big "pluses" of Android is the fact that it has widgets! Personally, I have 3 home screens and probably a total of about 10 widgets total. But, there is no way in hell that I'm going to dump these widgets as they are *extremely* useful and one of the reasons that I switched to Android in the first place!
That being said, my system runs perfectly on CleanROM using the *stock* kernel. I used to run Clemsyns' kernel, but with the latest version of CleanROM, I've found that the stock kernel actually seems to run better (and also allows unlimited email sync, which for some strange reason, goes away with Cleamsyn kernel)... Even the animations seem smoother on the stock kernel now...
I also use an app called WidgetLocker, which allows you to place widgets on the lock screen, so that my lock screen looks like this (excuse the crude editing to protect the innocent!):
View attachment 1597790
With this, a simple press of the power button (or moving my bluetooth mouse when at work) gives me *tons* of useful information *very* quickly! I couldn't live without it at this point (my main home screen is similar, but different).
I guess I'm just trying to say that if you are going to abandon widgets and homescreen, etc - then you just lost a *big* benefit of Android!
You *can* still use widgets (even a lot of them) and multiple home screen and still get great performance. I don't want new users to get the wrong idea from this thread!
Also, I *never* manually stop any processes and never have a problem... Again, you shouldn't have to worry about killing processes to get a good-running system.
Just my two cents!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, widgets are sweet and one of the reasons i love android. My tab is still incredibly functional, there are just ways to do everything and get all the information you need without loading a tons of stuff. My spartan setup has not sacrificed functionlity for cleanliness - I am getting a degree in sciences and havent used my laptop since i got this tab 6 mos ago, my tablet is incredibly functional, to the point where i prefer it to using brand new iMacs at my lab.
I just see most widgets and apps as completely useless. Most settings are accessible from the status bar, and all apps can be accessible at any time thru apps like swipepad/GMD gesture control/home2shortcut which can help cut down on the need for widgets, homescreens, and the app drawer altogether (which i have functionally disabled).
Edit - My major pet peeve is live wall papers, seriously wtf is the point, consuming cpu? lol
EDIT - I know this aint for the faint of heart, however, I just flashed CLemsyns 1.9 Ghz Kernel this morning and everything is super stable and temp is good after stress tests. Also..........
GOT A 7524 IN QUADRANT....wadup....I can load **** loads of flash videos and I dont even get lag.....fckin sweeeeeet

jtrosky said:
Just to play devils advocate here, one of the big "pluses" of Android is the fact that it has widgets! Personally, I have 3 home screens and probably a total of about 10 widgets total. But, there is no way in hell that I'm going to dump these widgets as they are *extremely* useful and one of the reasons that I switched to Android in the first place!
That being said, my system runs perfectly on CleanROM using the *stock* kernel. I used to run Clemsyns' kernel, but with the latest version of CleanROM, I've found that the stock kernel actually seems to run better (and also allows unlimited email sync, which for some strange reason, goes away with Cleamsyn kernel)... Even the animations seem smoother on the stock kernel now...
I also use an app called WidgetLocker, which allows you to place widgets on the lock screen, so that my lock screen looks like this (excuse the crude editing to protect the innocent!):
View attachment 1597790
With this, a simple press of the power button (or moving my bluetooth mouse when at work) gives me *tons* of useful information *very* quickly! I couldn't live without it at this point (my main home screen is similar, but different).
I guess I'm just trying to say that if you are going to abandon widgets and homescreen, etc - then you just lost a *big* benefit of Android!
You *can* still use widgets (even a lot of them) and multiple home screen and still get great performance. I don't want new users to get the wrong idea from this thread!
Also, I *never* manually stop any processes and never have a problem... Again, you shouldn't have to worry about killing processes to get a good-running system.
Just my two cents!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree here. My reason for staying with Android is how it allows you to customize it to the way you want to use it... widgets and all. If not, I'd just go with iOS as it's more stable and "just works."

jvnat said:
Completely agree here. My reason for staying with Android is how it allows you to customize it to the way you want to use it... widgets and all. If not, I'd just go with iOS as it's more stable and "just works."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soooooo true, android was made by nerds, for nerds. If you want to simply open a box and be a lemming, go for apple.
I work at the computer store on my universities campus and most ppl buying an ipad dont even know why they want one, it makes selling their products hella easy (i try not to to be honest), apple is unbelievable at marketing and design, i will give them that lol.

Updated: Amazon System App / Bloatware Tracking Sheet - as of FireOS 5.6.2.0

Hi Everyone! ??
Now that it appears we have a new, solid way to disable and effectively block Amazon bloatware/system apps from our Fire tablets (detailed in this awesome HOW TO guide as discovered by Supersonic27543), I thought I'd take a moment to at least give a good starting effort at updating the very useful system app tracking spreadsheet that bakshi originally created a few months ago (I use it all the time/have found it very helpful!).
With FireOS 5.6.2.0 and 'Show Mode' and what have you, there are more and more stock system apps and I just wanted to see if we could collectively share our findings. I ran the simple ADB command that lists system apps/packages on my HD 8 (2017) and them simply appended the new items onto a copy of bakshi's Google sheet, added some color coding, etc. I haven't had a lot of time to fill in a lot of the app details that I've become familiar with myself, but I wanted to at least get something started. So here is an easier to read html presentation view of my updated sheet, and here is a version allows for filtering/column resizing/comments/etc..
Ummm ?, does someone by chance have any interest in taking ownership of this document? Or maybe at least collectively? ?? I do have more details that I've learned through my own trial and error / several factory resets and I'm more than happy to share, but I'm not really an Android OS wizard or pro. Many of the new apps are part of "Show Mode" / are new calling features (which I find weird / frustrating since we don't even get the full "Echo Show" drop-in / calling experience anyway) ... ??
Hopefully this document can be useful for many of us. I'm happy to hear any thoughts and to share ownership of the document with anyone who wants to take a stab.
Thanks all!
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richaardvark

My Kindle Fire HD 8 is soooo Slow
Hey me again, so I'm looking at your updated spreadsheet for 5.6.2.0 on the bloatware. I'm trying to understand it - i.e what can I remove safely? I assume the apps that you have marked as 'safe' can be removed. What about the ones that have a blank in the column 'Safe to Remove'? I can see why some shouldn't be removed, but why do I care about amazon.glorialist (for example). I have no idea what that even is - that's not saying much... I guess I'm confused at this point on what I can get rid of. I have my fire HD back to ground zero, running 5.6.2.0 but that's it and it's running pretty good speed wise. But I have to get rid of something because once I install google services I'll be right back where I was (dial-up or less response) so then I might as well as stay with the vanilla Fire. Thanks!
richaardvark said:
Hi Everyone! ?
Now that it appears we have a new, solid way to disable and effectively block Amazon bloatware/system apps from our Fire tablets (detailed in this awesome HOW TO guide as discovered by Supersonic27543), I thought I'd take a moment to at least give a good starting effort at updating the very useful system app tracking spreadsheet that bakshi originally created a few months ago (I use it all the time/have found it very helpful!).
With FireOS 5.6.2.0 and 'Show Mode' and what have you, there are more and more stock system apps and I just wanted to see if we could collectively share our findings. I ran the simple ADB command that lists system apps/packages on my HD 8 (2017) and them simply appended the new items onto a copy of bakshi's Google sheet, added some color coding, etc. I haven't had a lot of time to fill in a lot of the app details that I've become familiar with myself, but I wanted to at least get something started. So here is an easier to read html presentation view of my updated sheet, and here is a version allows for filtering/column resizing/comments/etc..
Ummm , does someone by chance have any interest in taking ownership of this document? Or maybe at least collectively? I do have more details that I've learned through my own trial and error / several factory resets and I'm more than happy to share, but I'm not really an Android OS wizard or pro. Many of the new apps are part of "Show Mode" / are new calling features (which I find weird / frustrating since we don't even get the full "Echo Show" drop-in / calling experience anyway) ...
Hopefully this document can be useful for many of us. I'm happy to hear any thoughts and to share ownership of the document with anyone who wants to take a stab.
Thanks all!
richaardvark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

DallasRedHead said:
Hey me again, so I'm looking at your updated spreadsheet for 5.6.2.0 on the bloatware. I'm trying to understand it - i.e what can I remove safely? I assume the apps that you have marked as 'safe' can be removed. What about the ones that have a blank in the column 'Safe to Remove'? I can see why some shouldn't be removed, but why do I care about amazon.glorialist (for example). I have no idea what that even is - that's not saying much... I guess I'm confused at this point on what I can get rid of. I have my fire HD back to ground zero, running 5.6.2.0 but that's it and it's running pretty good speed wise. But I have to get rid of something because once I install google services I'll be right back where I was (dial-up or less response) so then I might as well as stay with the vanilla Fire. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You ask very good questions! hah
With regard to which exact programs should be disabled, a couple of things come to mind. First - I have to be open and say I, myself am still trying to find just the right balance. Every day when I get free time, I tinker around and enable/disable certain apps. By far, the tablet is in a much more use-able state than it was with all those factory-installed apps running, but there are still minor issues that pop up. As you can see from that post of mine you quoted above with the spreadsheet, I kinda foolishly assumed that there'd be kind of a collective conversation about this among HD 8 owners on here, and while I did get some good information and continue to daily, I realized very quickly that there isn't really a one-size-fits-all answer here. So to answer your question, I'd say what apps you disable largely depend on your goals for how you plan to use the device. Some people want to strip the device of anything Amazon as much as possible with the hope of ending up with as close to a stock "Android" device as possible. Some people want to be able to use Alexa still, some people like their Kindle e-books or whatever. I can definitely help you look at which individual apps to disable but would need to know what features you'd like to keep and what features you want to remove. Are you wanting to install a new launcher, or keep the FireOS launcher? Do you want full Alexa as well as "Show Mode"? All things to consider and totally changes what apps you disable or leave be. So that's the first thing to take into consideration when deciding which apps to disable.
Another thing to be aware of is that if you disassemble certain packages this annoying parental control lock warning begins to pop up (I guess you could say Amazon kinda booby-trapped the device, lol). It's not a big deal, but depending on what you disable, you'll notice an annoying pop-up message. The original author of that de-bloat thread (Supersonic27543) mentions this in his OP. There are fixes for this though.
User Ivorin put together a nice list of apps he chose to disable with clear notes and I found this helpful. I've made a few minor modifications however on my own device, added a few more to disable, kept a couple he chose to disable. See his list here.
Another question I have for you is how are you going about installing Google Services? Is there a certain guide/thread you're following? There are several different posts on here with essentially the same set of instructions, but I do think there are a couple of different suggested steps among these posts, with some methods a little better than others. I only ask this because, you shouldn't really experience any major slow-down in performance after installing Google/the Play Store, at least not like it sounds like you've been experiencing. My device(s) overall are pretty snappy and solid. So we should look at that as well.
Sorry I didn't have a simple, one-size-fits-all answer for you, but if you give me just a few more details I'll have answers for you and you should be able to quickly make it all come together.

DallasRedHead said:
But I have to get rid of something because once I install google services I'll be right back where I was (dial-up or less response) so then I might as well as stay with the vanilla Fire. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the thread I've typically followed when installing Google Services/Play store. These four files, in this order. It doesn't matter that they're outdated - as soon as you bring it all online it will update itself to the latest versions.

richaardvark said:
You ask very good questions! hah
Well now i have more questions
With regard to which exact programs should be disabled, a couple of things come to mind. First - I have to be open and say I, myself am still trying to find just the right balance. Every day when I get free time, I tinker around and enable/disable certain apps. By far, the tablet is in a much more use-able state than it was with all those factory-installed apps running, but there are still minor issues that pop up. As you can see from that post of mine you quoted above with the spreadsheet, I kinda foolishly assumed that there'd be kind of a collective conversation about this among HD 8 owners on here, and while I did get some good information and continue to daily, I realized very quickly that there isn't really a one-size-fits-all answer here. So to answer your question, I'd say what apps you disable largely depend on your goals for how you plan to use the device. Some people want to strip the device of anything Amazon as much as possible with the hope of ending up with as close to a stock "Android" device as possible. Some people want to be able to use Alexa still, some people like their Kindle e-books or whatever. I can definitely help you look at which individual apps to disable but would need to know what features you'd like to keep and what features you want to remove. Are you wanting to install a new launcher, or keep the FireOS launcher? Do you want full Alexa as well as "Show Mode"? All things to consider and totally changes what apps you disable or leave be. So that's the first thing to take into consideration when deciding which apps to disable.
You asked for it so here goes:
Well in a perfect world I would like it to do everything my laptop does... However back to reality. I got it to:
1. Play how-to videos
2. Pull up other types of information via the web
3. Get mail and my calendar and contacts plus keep the last two updated off my Outlook installed on my PC. (I want the gmail app at least and it’s not on the Amazon app store). I know I can get yahoo thru the Appstore. I would rather use Outlook but refuse to pay for Outlook 365. I need to keep the Fire stock email, calendar and contacts for the program I run on outlook to propagate the calendar/contacts. I’m sure there are others apps but this works and right now that’s all I care about.
4. Play videos when I’m on the road (either wifi or downloaded)
5. I do like the voice to text recognition because without a regular keyboard my typing frustrates me (I use the same on my phone)
6. Read doc files like PDF, Work, EXCEL, PPT etc. Only need a reader, don’t want to create or edit.
7. Not a bit gamer – when waiting at a docs office I play solitaire (mostly) or candy crush so don’t need resources for that.
8. I’m still old fashioned – if I want to read a book I want paper, the same goes for magazines and newspapers. I read on the laptop when I have to. So I could care less about Kindle…
9. I can’t stand the fire launcher but I’ve read where Nova is inconsistent on Fire HD so might be stuck with that unless there is something else out there that works??? (low on my priority list).
10. I do like Alexa because I use it in the house. If she is a big hog I’ll get rid of it.
11. Get rid of the ads
I think that’s the majority of it. I just want to get decent response time but I don’t know what to delete. For example, I tried killing some stuff that was running in the background but didn’t know what those processes were and ended up having to reboot. I did this a few times and got frustrated and quit.
Have I ended up confusing the issue? I just don’t have time to keep tinkering around with this thing. If I can get decent response time and get my must-have apps on there I’ll be happy. I just would like to know what I can kill and be done with it...
Another thing to be aware of is that if you disassemble certain packages this annoying parental control lock warning begins to pop up (I guess you could say Amazon kinda booby-trapped the device, lol). It's not a big deal, but depending on what you disable, you'll notice an annoying pop-up message. The original author of that de-bloat thread (Supersonic27543) mentions this in his OP. There are fixes for this though.
I saw that too but I can deal with that later, the speed right now is the most annoying thing... And the ads...
User Ivorin put together a nice list of apps he chose to disable with clear notes and I found this helpful. I've made a few minor modifications however on my own device, added a few more to disable, kept a couple he chose to disable. See his list here.
Got it.
Another question I have for you is how are you going about installing Google Services? Is there a certain guide/thread you're following? There are several different posts on here with essentially the same set of instructions, but I do think there are a couple of different suggested steps among these posts, with some methods a little better than others. I only ask this because, you shouldn't really experience any major slow-down in performance after installing Google/the Play Store, at least not like it sounds like you've been experiencing. My device(s) overall are pretty snappy and solid. So we should look at that as well.
Well that took some time because I was flip flopping around and the instructions weren’t very clear (I figured it out) but I ultimately got from two sources.
http://rootjunkysdl.com/files/?dir=Amazon Fire 5th gen
He had two ‘features’ I used. 1) remove the annoying ads, 2) fix it so Amazon updates doesn’t break the Google apps.
I started with this one that led me to rootjunky to get Google play services down:
https://lifehacker.com/how-to-get-google-play-on-a-kindle-fire-and-install-any-1790706649
I see the instructions you used are different and I also see that you can disable the ads thru that ‘pm’ command? I saw mention of that in Ivorin’s list that you referred me to – maybe it was in the other ones too, I just saw his comment in that list.
>>>>> OK, so my question is why do I need google play services if you are just downloading the APKs? Someone else mentioned using apkpure.com to get APKs and forget about Google play services but then I read too that some of these sites might have malware etc. and to stay away from them. I’m happy downloading the APKs myself. As you have probably noticed I only know enough to be dangerous, I’ve just really begun to stick my big toe into the Android world.
I also noticed that some apps (non-stock) simply will not install so I just have to go to the web for those.
Sorry I didn't have a simple, one-size-fits-all answer for you, but if you give me just a few more details I'll have answers for you and you should be able to quickly make it all come together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Get that and I really can't thank you enough for your time on this!!!
BTW, the first site you sent me to on the bloatware: He has instructions on getting com.amazon.unifiedsharefacebook. FYI it was already on my Fire HD after I went and got it off the site. I did see where someone said it used to be there but the developers got rid of it – I guess not since I have 5.6.2….

richaardvark said:
This is the thread I've typically followed when installing Google Services/Play store. These four files, in this order. It doesn't matter that they're outdated - as soon as you bring it all online it will update itself to the latest versions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used the method in the thread you linked multiple times on my HD 10 7th gen running 5.6.1.0 and I can say it works perfectly every time and have never had any issues with Google play store/services acting up in any way.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Got Google loaded but some issues with internet?
tylerhole said:
I've used the method in the thread you linked multiple times on my HD 10 7th gen running 5.6.1.0 and I can say it works perfectly every time and have never had any issues with Google play store/services acting up in any way.
OK, I loaded the four APKs you and richaardvark suggested. All went fine thank you. So that's all I have on it now, except for Stock and a file manager. I'm trying things one at a time to see if there is a particular app that brings me to my knees. I do still need to remove the bloatware once that's figured out.
What I'm running into is I use the SILK browser to load up sites that I go to all the time just to see if I'm getting decent response. I have two that are so slow on the Fire but not on my phone for example. Now what I'm seeing on the 'draggers' is after a long period it comes back and says "No Internet". All I have to do is hit enter and it loads right up. Does anyone have an idea as to what might be causing this? I tested the same sites on my phone with no issues.... Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

DallasRedHead said:
tylerhole said:
I've used the method in the thread you linked multiple times on my HD 10 7th gen running 5.6.1.0 and I can say it works perfectly every time and have never had any issues with Google play store/services acting up in any way.
OK, I loaded the four APKs you and richaardvark suggested. All went fine thank you. So that's all I have on it now, except for Stock and a file manager. I'm trying things one at a time to see if there is a particular app that brings me to my knees. I do still need to remove the bloatware once that's figured out.
What I'm running into is I use the SILK browser to load up sites that I go to all the time just to see if I'm getting decent response. I have two that are so slow on the Fire but not on my phone for example. Now what I'm seeing on the 'draggers' is after a long period it comes back and says "No Internet". All I have to do is hit enter and it loads right up. Does anyone have an idea as to what might be causing this? I tested the same sites on my phone with no issues.... Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you just install chrome since you have the play store up and running? I use it daily without any issues on mine. And I got rid of all the Amazon crap. You can see all the apps I currently have installed in the attached pics.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i like some of the amazon apps but prefer the straight android versions from google play can the book music prime vids work if i get rid of the stock versions a replaced with apks? plus dont want alexa at all or any of the new crap amazon pushed with latest update... is it possible to get uptodate without all the crap? cause im still at 5.6.1.0? i know alot of questions....

tylerhole said:
DallasRedHead said:
Why don't you just install chrome since you have the play store up and running? I use it daily without any issues on mine. And I got rid of all the Amazon crap. You can see all the apps I currently have installed in the attached pics. View attachment 4582486View attachment 4582487
Yes, I will do that. I need to get rid of the Amazon crap too - just need to figure out what I can safely get rid of. I was checking speeds before I loaded it up with standard android apps - which I did last time and my system ran at a crawl so I'm trying to identify one-by-one which one (or ones) are the culprit. (I completely started over from scratch after looking at this forum and getting help from y'all).
BTW. It looks like you use the standard Fire Launcher - is that correct? Thx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

DallasRedHead said:
tylerhole said:
Why don't you just install chrome since you have the play store up and running? I use it daily without any issues on mine. And I got rid of all the Amazon crap. You can see all the apps I currently have installed in the attached pics. View attachment 4582486View attachment 4582487
Yes, I will do that. I need to get rid of the Amazon crap too - just need to figure out what I can safely get rid of. I was checking speeds before I loaded it up with standard android apps - which I did last time and my system ran at a crawl so I'm trying to identify one-by-one which one (or ones) are the culprit. (I completely started over from scratch after looking at this forum and getting help from y'all).
BTW. It looks like you use the standard Fire Launcher - is that correct? Thx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My solution to the slow system was to remove all the Amazon stuff that has been deemed safe to remove that I've seen in various threads here. Of course some still want to use some Amazon apps so it's not the solution for everyone. Just keep in mind while you are trying stuff that removing one thing may break something else and cause your tablet to slow down. But best of luck, be sure to post your findings! [emoji4]
As far as my launcher, I actually replaced the nova Launcher and have the widgets working [emoji16]
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Desktops Icons not going away
tylerhole said:
My solution to the slow system was to remove all the Amazon stuff that has been deemed safe to remove that I've seen in various threads here. Of course some still want to use some Amazon apps so it's not the solution for everyone. Just keep in mind while you are trying stuff that removing one thing may break something else and cause your tablet to slow down. But best of luck, be sure to post your findings! [emoji4]
As far as my launcher, I actually replaced the nova Launcher and have the widgets working [emoji16]
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I posted this in another thread but basically I got everything working and started 'PM Hiding' stuff. I read that 'pm hide' and 'pm disable' are essentially the same. Sometimes I would have to leave the 'com' on front of the name (that I was trying to hide), other times I had to leave it off. I was getting 'new hidden state: true' but after reboot they are all still on my desktop I don't know why.
I was using Richaarvark spreadsheet and only getting rid of 'safe' stuff. Some stuff I don't want to get rid of. Others I wasn't sure. But I definately got rid of all the parental controls, the clock, weather, maps but they are still there and I don't know what I'm doing wrong! Help tremendously appreciated. I'll get back to NOVA once I get this figured out

DallasRedHead said:
I posted this in another thread but basically I got everything working and started 'PM Hiding' stuff. I read that 'pm hide' and 'pm disable' are essentially the same. Sometimes I would have to leave the 'com' on front of the name (that I was trying to hide), other times I had to leave it off. I was getting 'new hidden state: true' but after reboot they are all still on my desktop I don't know why.
I was using Richaarvark spreadsheet and only getting rid of 'safe' stuff. Some stuff I don't want to get rid of. Others I wasn't sure. But I definately got rid of all the parental controls, the clock, weather, maps but they are still there and I don't know what I'm doing wrong! Help tremendously appreciated. I'll get back to NOVA once I get this figured out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried pm disable instead? Hide might only be hiding it in your launcher until reboot. Otherwise, although you'd have to reset to get them back, you could try the method in this thread.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/tut-root-cleaner-android-experience-hd8-t3797327
I know it says 5.6 and up it won't work, but I'm on 5.6.1.0 and my friend is on 5.6.2.0 and it's worked for both ours.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

tylerhole said:
Have you tried pm disable instead? Hide might only be hiding it in your launcher until reboot. Otherwise, although you'd have to reset to get them back, you could try the method in this thread.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/tut-root-cleaner-android-experience-hd8-t3797327
I know it says 5.6 and up it won't work, but I'm on 5.6.1.0 and my friend is on 5.6.2.0 and it's worked for both ours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info but... I tried pm disable and half of them wouldn't disable - why I went to hide them. Also, when this kept happening what I read was disable requires a rooted device (mine is not).
Do you think I could just try pm uninstalling - I don't want to start over! I've spent hours on this and have brain drain and looked at so many threads. The initial thread I was pointed to was https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/a-t3820744/page23#post77476583 and that's what I've been following.
I have 5.6.2 btw. --- AND A HEADACHE!
Thanks!

DallasRedHead said:
Thanks for the info but... I tried pm disable and half of them wouldn't disable - why I went to hide them. Also, when this kept happening what I read was disable requires a rooted device (mine is not).
Do you think I could just try pm uninstalling - I don't want to start over! I've spent hours on this and have brain drain and looked at so many threads. The initial thread I was pointed to was https://forum.xda-developers.com/hd8-hd10/general/a-t3820744/page23#post77476583 and that's what I've been following.
I have 5.6.2 btw. --- AND A HEADACHE!
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have the HD 8 or 10?

tylerhole said:
Do you have the HD 8 or 10?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD 8.
Interesting, I just checked this. While my desktop icons didn't disappear my searches on chrome have gotten a lot faster! I had two sites that I was testing with that were so slow I would walk away while they loaded up. Now they load up great! Hum.....

DallasRedHead said:
I have an HD 8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh... I wasn't aware of what device you had so yeah, disregard what I said, my apologies.

tylerhole said:
Oh... I wasn't aware of what device you had so yeah, disregard what I said, my apologies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem but now I don't know where to go from here. Maybe someone will reply from the original post I was following... I'm really just now sticking my toe in the Android world.

DallasRedHead said:
No problem but now I don't know where to go from here. Maybe someone will reply from the original post I was following... I'm really just now sticking my toe in the Android world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't attempted to do anything regarding disabling or removing system apps on mine without root, plus I have the 10 not the 8 so there's other lil differences too.
That combined with Amazon making things more difficult to be done with every update not sure if I could point you in a direction to go without doing a bunch of digging through threads myself lol.
I'm sure there is someone will be able to chime in and help ya out, just a matter of time. Hope ya get it figured out and I'll be checking back to see what happens! [emoji854]
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

can some1 tell me what i did wrong i disable only the safe apk.. reboot the amazon goes into moptimizing system storange application mode forever.. then i have to go into adb and sideload stock firmware

Question How to find out what app(s) are trying to connect to two malicious sites?

Spoiler: Warning - don't visit these two sites:
Code:
www.vu239trk.com
int.vaicore.store
Trend Micro says both of these sites are malicious.
Full story - I recently changed router brands. Our new routers have the ability to block malicious sites that are trying to be accessed. Thankfully, this isn't happening on my rooted phone - it's happening on my wife's Pixel 7 Pro which is unlockable but is locked. The same was the case a week and a half ago with her Pixel 6 Pro. Problem is, that my wife has no idea which of her apps - I'm guessing a game, but who knows - would be accessing those. I've tried to pin them down according to what time the router blocked access, but it hasn't helped.
The router has blocked access to those sites from her phone(s) a total of seven times between October 5th and the 19th:
10/5 - vu
10/9 - vu
10/12 - vaicore
10/14 - vu
10/15 - vu
10/16 - vu
10/19 - vu
So it's not every day, and not repeatedly on the same day. I've let her know each time the router notifies me, but nothing has come to mind for her, so I don't know if it's happening in the background or when she's actively using an app.
I've tried some simple Google-fu for this question, or specifically regarding these sites without any promising help.
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to find out what apps are accessing them? I'm aware of solutions like NetGuard - no-root firewall to whitelist/blacklist internet access - however, my wife is non-technical - I don't root her phones anymore as she's not interested in the benefits and it's less work for me, and no chance for me to mess up her configuration. Also, we both suspect that it's one of her games that is trying to access those sites, and those games might already require internet access for them to work, so I'm more interested in tracking down which without a process of elimination. She's also not methodical like I am, at least for technical things.
I could probably dump a list of her apps to at least get some ideas. All her apps came from the Play Store and were just restored from there during our recent transition to the Pixel 7 Pro, so whatever it is, Google hasn't caught it yet. She doesn't use any special web browsers, just Chrome, and she doesn't do anything techie or hacky.
Also trying to avoid both a factory reset and not using Google's cloud backup. She forgets her passwords constantly so fresh setups always cause high anxiety for her, and therefore for me too.

After you install an app block all updates. A common ploy is the app is clean but after it is installed it will download it's malicious payload.
Keep all social media and shopping apps off the phone. They are malware.
If an app doesn't need internet access to function it should be firewall blocked. Few app need internet access. Find the malware or factory reset and reset passwords. I give myself 2 hours before I nuke it. That should be enough time to find/fix minor malware issues.
Full scan with Malwarebytes. Pay close attention to the download folder and any apps that run at startup. Scan suspects with online Virustotal.
Try in safe mode, see if it stops.
It maybe a false alert... otherwise uninstall or package block installed apps one by one until you nail it. If it's a virus or rootkit that won't stop it though. Hopefully it's just a rogue app that didn't download a rootkit payload...

blackhawk said:
After you install an app block all updates. A common ploy is the app is clean but after it is installed it will download it's malicious payload.
Keep all social media and shopping apps off the phone. They are malware.
If an app doesn't need internet access to function it should be firewall blocked. Few app need internet access. Find the malware or factory reset and reset passwords. I give myself 2 hours before I nuke it. That should be enough time to find/fix minor malware issues.
Full scan with Malwarebytes. Pay close attention to the download folder and any apps that run at startup. Scan suspects with online Virustotal.
Try in safe mode, see if it stops.
It maybe a false alert... otherwise uninstall or package block installed apps one by one until you nail it. If it's a virus or rootkit that won't stop it though. Hopefully it's just a rogue app that didn't download a rootkit payload...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never once had a problem with any of this stuff... I think the malware problem is hugely overblown. I just don't download random obscure apps and never had an issue.

Trend Micro is often overzealous. I have disabled that crap on my ASUS router.
They both seem to be marketing and tracking sites. The vaicore one apparently was even being triggered by the Audible app at one point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/audible/comments/ttakhs
You could try DuckDuckGo's tracking protection to figure out which app is doing it.
Introducing DuckDuckGo App Tracking Protection for Android
Join the waitlist to try App Tracking Protection for Android today!
spreadprivacy.com

blackhawk said:
After you install an app block all updates. A common ploy is the app is clean but after it is installed it will download it's malicious payload.
Keep all social media and shopping apps off the phone. They are malware.
If an app doesn't need internet access to function it should be firewall blocked. Few app need internet access. Find the malware or factory reset and reset passwords. I give myself 2 hours before I nuke it. That should be enough time to find/fix minor malware issues.
Full scan with Malwarebytes. Pay close attention to the download folder and any apps that run at startup. Scan suspects with online Virustotal.
Try in safe mode, see if it stops.
It maybe a false alert... otherwise uninstall or package block installed apps one by one until you nail it. If it's a virus or rootkit that won't stop it though. Hopefully it's just a rogue app that didn't download a rootkit payload...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since this is my wife's phone, not mine, I'm not willing to micro-manage to try to find the culprit. It would only cause her stress and because of that, ultimately more stress for me.
EtherealRemnant said:
Trend Micro is often overzealous. I have disabled that crap on my ASUS router.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll certainly keep an eye on what it reports, but since so far it's only reported things from my wife's phone and not my own or any of our computers, I'm going to keep being curious about what exactly is triggering it.
EtherealRemnant said:
They both seem to be marketing and tracking sites. The vaicore one apparently was even being triggered by the Audible app at one point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/audible/comments/ttakhs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that information! In this case, she doesn't have the Audible app.
EtherealRemnant said:
You could try DuckDuckGo's tracking protection to figure out which app is doing it.
Introducing DuckDuckGo App Tracking Protection for Android
Join the waitlist to try App Tracking Protection for Android today!
spreadprivacy.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I forgot about DuckDuckGo app's advertised capability. I'll take a look into it. Thanks!

roirraW edor ehT said:
Since this is my wife's phone, not mine, I'm not willing to micro-manage to try to find the culprit. It would only cause her stress and because of that, ultimately more stress for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Words of wisdom for maintaining a happy marriage

Lughnasadh said:
Words of wisdom for maintaining a happy marriage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
New movie: "Honey, I disabled half of your apps!"

EtherealRemnant said:
I've never once had a problem with any of this stuff... I think the malware problem is hugely overblown. I just don't download random obscure apps and never had an issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rarely sample apps. All my apps are vetted and most have been used by me for years. Playstore is a mess. I keep installable copies of all my apps on my data drive (SD card) master backup for easy reloads if I need to factory reset. I occasionally side load, these are always first scanned with Virustotal. If they even look a little twitchy they aren't loaded. I firewall block all apps that implicitly don't need internet access. I also watch what is accessing the internet, when and why.
Apps are never upgraded unless it would provide a substantial benefit. There's no need to as I already have a stable platform. I don't upgrade or update the firmware, ever. This 3 yo N10+ is still running snappy fast and rock solid stable on Pie. Any problem is easy to stop as the platform is very predictable; malware stands out like a sore thumb. The current load is over 2yo and it runs day after day like a bat out of hell with minimal maintenance. I also watch the download folder like a hawk; everything is vetted before it is moved into the database, apps, mp4's, jpegs etc. At the very least I open the file in the download folder to look for abnormal behavior especially in that folder.
I've had malware jpegs on Android, once you open it, it would damage any files not in a folder in the download folder. Some were repairable some not and best deleted. Deleting the jpeg ends it's rain of terror. If it gets into the database in a folder with a large number of files it would rain hell down on you. It may not be detectable at all as malware meaning you would need to find it the hard way.
There are scripted jpegs, pngs that target both PC and Android. They pop up from time to time and Outlook can be a vector. Keel all email in the cloud ie Gmail. Be very cautious of downloading anything from emails, the oldest trick in the book. Lol, you've been warned
Also saw a trojan preloader slip past Samsung browser without permission. I tagged it in the download folder before it could download it's payload. KIA Police the download folder daily, delete any unknown files without opening them.
Vet everything.
Almost all malware is loaded or downloaded by the user, one way or another. Pie and above are secure unless you do stupid things.
┤Mod Edit├┤Unneeded remark removed├

roirraW edor ehT said:
New movie: "Honey, I disabled half of your apps!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sequel: "Why I now sleep on the couch"

roirraW edor ehT said:
New movie: "Honey, I disabled half of your apps!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Translation: "Honey half your apps were spyware, can we still be friends after the divorce?"

Lughnasadh said:
Sequel: "Why I now sleep on the couch"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"...and use the cat's litterbox..."

roirraW edor ehT said:
Since this is my wife's phone, not mine, I'm not willing to micro-manage to try to find the culprit. It would only cause her stress and because of that, ultimately more stress for me.
I'll certainly keep an eye on what it reports, but since so far it's only reported things from my wife's phone and not my own or any of our computers, I'm going to keep being curious about what exactly is triggering it.
Thanks for that information! In this case, she doesn't have the Audible app.
Ah, I forgot about DuckDuckGo app's advertised capability. I'll take a look into it. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try scanning with Malwarebytes. Virustotal is the gold standard as it gives a broad overview to what's there and how it behaves.
Brave browser is near bulletproof.
Always try to back out of a bad site by closing that window if necessary or close the browser. Occasionally I needed to clear the cache as well. Never needed to clear the data but have seen some really persistent bad sites. No breach though save that one trojan preloader.
Abnormal behavior should be promptly investigated and the cause found.
Never ignore it... and teach her new tricks.

blackhawk said:
I rarely sample apps. All my apps are vetted and most have been used by me for years. Playstore is a mess. I keep installable copies of all my apps on my data drive (SD card) master backup for easy reloads if I need to factory reset. I occasionally side load, these are always first scanned with Virustotal. If they even look a little twitchy they aren't loaded. I firewall block all apps that implicitly don't need internet access. I also watch what is accessing the internet, when and why.
Apps are never upgraded unless it would provide a substantial benefit. There's no need to as I already have a stable platform. I don't upgrade or update the firmware, ever. This 3 yo N10+ is still running snappy fast and rock solid stable on Pie. Any problem is easy to stop as the platform is very predictable; malware stands out like a sore thumb. The current load is over 2yo and it runs day after day like a bat out of hell with minimal maintenance. I also watch the download folder like a hawk; everything is vetted before it is moved into the database, apps, mp4's, jpegs etc. At the very least I open the file in the download folder to look for abnormal behavior especially in that folder.
I've had malware jpegs on Android, once you open it, it would damage any files not in a folder in the download folder. Some were repairable some not and best deleted. Deleting the jpeg ends it's rain of terror. If it gets into the database in a folder with a large number of files it would rain hell down on you. It may not be detectable at all as malware meaning you would need to find it the hard way.
There are scripted jpegs, pngs that target both PC and Android. They pop up from time to time and Outlook can be a vector. Keel all email in the cloud ie Gmail. Be very cautious of downloading anything from emails, the oldest trick in the book. Lol, you've been warned
Also saw a trojan preloader slip past Samsung browser without permission. I tagged it in the download folder before it could download it's payload. KIA Police the download folder daily, delete any unknown files without opening them.
Vet everything.
Almost all malware is loaded or downloaded by the user, one way or another. Pie and above are secure unless you do stupid things. No saving dumb bunnies, you are what you load/download.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean I use FairEmail and have it set to only download images when I tell it to but other than that, I don't use much more than common sense for my security platform. I don't dabble a lot in random apps (sometimes I will grab a game from a new dev after I see some positive reviews for it somewhere but those F2P apps end up earning the devs more money in microtransactions than they would get from malware anyway so the risk is low here, especially since I only go for visually appealing games with some depth to them), I don't use a firewall, don't use AV... It's never been a problem going all the way back to Cupcake on my HTC Hero.
I do, however, take all updates within a few weeks of them being available (system updates I will do as soon as I get a prompt that they are available, app updates I manually do), and while that potentially exposes me to a zero day if one of my apps goes rogue, lots of pre-existing loopholes get closed by these same updates as well.
For that matter, going back to my first computer when I was 8 or 9 years old running DOS, I've only ever gotten one bug that was nasty enough for me to have to reinstall everything, a trojan, and I got it from some software I grabbed from a BBS IIRC. I don't run more than Windows Defender these days and I continue to just use common sense on the internet. Most of my important stuff is backed up to my Google Drive anyway so my desktop can get nuked and I'll just have to saturate the gigabit connection for a few hours to download all my apps and games again. *shrug*
I do use Bitwarden for passwords and Authy for 2FA (as well as having YubiKey for a few things like Google, Microsoft, and Bitwarden) as I feel that those are common sense in the world we live in but I just don't see the point otherwise.
I do use VirusTotal from time to time if I'm not sure about something as well.

blackhawk said:
Try scanning with Malwarebytes. Virustotal is the gold standard as it gives a broad overview to what's there and how it behaves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I got her to install it - later when we're both not working, I'll work with her to have it do its thing. I meant to mention in my earlier reply, to thank you for that advice.
blackhawk said:
Brave browser is near bulletproof.
Always try to back out of a bad site by closing that window if necessary or close the browser. Occasionally I needed to clear the cache as well. Never needed to clear the data but have seen some really persistent bad sites. No breach though save that one trojan preloader.
Abnormal behavior should be promptly investigated and the cause found.
Never ignore it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Brave for select things, but to try to move her completely or even partly from Chrome to Brave would ultimately not be an effort well spent. I'm getting anxious just knowing how things would go.
blackhawk said:
and teach her new tricks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My wife's habits are firmly planted. Mine are probably just a tiny bit less than hers, but obviously, I can't be objective.
EtherealRemnant said:
For that matter, going back to my first computer when I was 8 or 9 years old running DOS, I've only ever gotten one bug that was nasty enough for me to have to reinstall everything, a trojan, and I got it from some software I grabbed from a BBS IIRC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh, that reminds me of the time just about 20 years ago that back in my Norton AntiVirus days, there was a trojan that wasn't detected for weeks - I forget which one, but Symantec was not picking it up, and I had kept on reinstalling Windows XP on both my wife's and my desktops I built but ultimately they both would act crazy in some way. What a pain. Then when Symantec finally recognized what was going on and their definitions found the culprit, what a relief.
That was the only time I know that any of my devices were infected and rampant.
EtherealRemnant said:
I don't run more than Windows Defender these days and I continue to just use common sense on the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here.
EtherealRemnant said:
Most of my important stuff is backed up to my Google Drive anyway so my desktop can get nuked and I'll just have to saturate the gigabit connection for a few hours to download all my apps and games again. *shrug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've "lost everything" (digital) so many times over the last 38 years, but my most important potentially life-altering things are backed up in the cloud, too, although using my own encryption for the most sensitive things.

roirraW edor ehT said:
Ugh, that reminds me of the time just about 20 years ago that back in my Norton AntiVirus days, there was a trojan that wasn't detected for weeks - I forget which one, but Symantec was not picking it up, and I had kept on reinstalling Windows XP on both my wife's and my desktops I built but ultimately they both would act crazy in some way. What a pain. Then when Symantec finally recognized what was going on and their definitions found the culprit, what a relief.
That was the only time I know that any of my devices were infected and rampant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah this was definitely in the early Norton days. That computer was running Windows 3.1. lol.
roirraW edor ehT said:
I've "lost everything" (digital) so many times over the last 38 years, but my most important potentially life-altering things are backed up in the cloud, too, although using my own encryption for the most sensitive things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been incredibly lucky. I have never even had a hard drive fail to the point of any significant loss. I actually still have the 320GB Seagate that was in my grandfather's old Gateway P3 from the early 2000s and it still works fine.
But my stupid self has definitely done the "let's get drunk and mess with Linux" thing... Which has absolutely resulted in some loss lol, especially back in the LILO days when the installers could easily wipe out your Windows partition when they bugged out and also sometimes when I just messed up the partitioning myself.
Fortunately, there's not much that I absolutely have to have, so even if I lost absolutely everything, the biggest headache would be recovering my bank/credit union accounts (of which I have like 23 credit cards alone right now) and online accounts like XDA and reddit. Social media I could just start over. Or not start back up at all for that matter.
Also, I tried Brave... Can't do it. It's Chrome or nothing for me. It was hard enough to switch from Firefox to Chrome (I had been using Firefox since it was in alpha as Phoenix) but I'm just too set in my ways to switch to anything else now.

EtherealRemnant said:
Yeah this was definitely in the early Norton days. That computer was running Windows 3.1. lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I forgot - I guess I don't count my pre-XP days as far as viruses and trojans. Definitely had some on probably almost every Apple/Amiga/Windows OS I ever ran before XP. Security? What security!?
EtherealRemnant said:
I have been incredibly lucky. I have never even had a hard drive fail to the point of any significant loss. I actually still have the 320GB Seagate that was in my grandfather's old Gateway P3 from the early 2000s and it still works fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is lucky. I'm not on the opposite spectrum of hard drive experience, but I definitely have run the wheels off of many hard drives.
EtherealRemnant said:
Also, I tried Brave... Can't do it. It's Chrome or nothing for me. It was hard enough to switch from Firefox to Chrome (I had been using Firefox since it was in alpha as Phoenix) but I'm just too set in my ways to switch to anything else now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few months ago I largely switched back to Firefox, but I still use Chrome for certain things, and I do use Brave for a very few things. A couple of years ago, I was liking Microsoft's Chromium-based Edge just fine, but then they changed just one little thing - which made it many more clicks than in Chrome or other browsers if you wanted to potentially change your download save location for each and every download.
There were a ton of complaints to Microsoft but they wouldn't reinstate the original way. I'd have no problem if they at least let users opt to use the way they used to, but fell on deaf ears. I switched back to Chrome after that - Edge was just too much of a pain for micro-managed downloads.

EtherealRemnant said:
I mean I use FairEmail and have it set to only download images when I tell it to but other than that, I don't use much more than common sense for my security platform. I don't dabble a lot in random apps (sometimes I will grab a game from a new dev after I see some positive reviews for it somewhere but those F2P apps end up earning the devs more money in microtransactions than they would get from malware anyway so the risk is low here, especially since I only go for visually appealing games with some depth to them), I don't use a firewall, don't use AV... It's never been a problem going all the way back to Cupcake on my HTC Hero.
I do, however, take all updates within a few weeks of them being available (system updates I will do as soon as I get a prompt that they are available, app updates I manually do), and while that potentially exposes me to a zero day if one of my apps goes rogue, lots of pre-existing loopholes get closed by these same updates as well.
For that matter, going back to my first computer when I was 8 or 9 years old running DOS, I've only ever gotten one bug that was nasty enough for me to have to reinstall everything, a trojan, and I got it from some software I grabbed from a BBS IIRC. I don't run more than Windows Defender these days and I continue to just use common sense on the internet. Most of my important stuff is backed up to my Google Drive anyway so my desktop can get nuked and I'll just have to saturate the gigabit connection for a few hours to download all my apps and games again. *shrug*
I do use Bitwarden for passwords and Authy for 2FA (as well as having YubiKey for a few things like Google, Microsoft, and Bitwarden) as I feel that those are common sense in the world we live in but I just don't see the point otherwise.
I do use VirusTotal from time to time if I'm not sure about something as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still running W7. It's kept off the internet always. Android is a lot easier to keep secure.
Updates sound good in theory just like the Covid vaccine did. In actual practice they cause trouble and aren't needed. It's an ongoing experiment at this point and it's simply running too good to mess with the firmware. I refuse to.
Pie is pretty secure in real time with a few modifications. I keep wifi disabled as well. At this point I'm curious to see if anything can nail it. Lol, I test it everyday. A reload isn't very painful for me and everything is redundantly backed up.
App updates have caused me a lot of time and trouble particularly with Samsung. Got a pair of Buds+ that the last firmware update degraded the sound badly, need to get Samsung to reflash to its original firmware. My new Buds+ sound great with much better range; that firmware will never be upgraded. Upgrades and updates tend to break Samsung's... best to leave it be if it's fast, stable and fulfilling its mission. That strategy may sound counterproductive but it works well for me in real time.
That's all that counts.

Pcap droid app from the Google app store or download the apk from f-droid: it's a superb app.Here are some sample screenshots:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

step 1- root wife's phone
step 2- install netguard
step 3- install afwall+
step 4- check the logs from each and cross-reference which app is the problem
step 5- profit. have her make you sandwich

xxTECRAxx said:
step 1- root wife's phone
step 2- install netguard
step 3- install afwall+
step 4- check the logs from each and cross-reference which app is the problem
step 5- profit. have her make you sandwich
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I was trying to indicate that root isn't an option I'm interested in for her phone. That is, she's not interested, and it would be especially disruptive to her now that we've had our factory unlocked Pixel 7 Pros for over six months, plus it's just less work for me to not bother rooting her phone and keeping it up to date manually.
In addition, with her phone not rooted, and the bootloader still locked, I feel better about her running whatever random games she plays.
I haven't had any notifications about that site being blocked in a while. The most recent email I found about it was from December, although I don't know if I might've deleted emails that came after that, but I think I purposefully kept only the most recent example.
I'll keep your information in mind if I ever experience anything like that coming from my devices (I always root them).