I really want to learn how Android works. I want to be able to build Android from source, and compile Roms. The goodies. But anytime I try, it's end up horribly. I just want to know where to start! Should I make a stock based Rom, and learn how to tweak it out? Should I buy a certain book, or read some threads! I don't know Xo I really want to become a Dev. Android is my life, and I want to be able to do what Strapped, XMC, and Tbalden do. Any tips are good tips.
I sure do wish you all the luck in the world Agent. And you certainly want to fashion yourself after three mighty fine developers too. I've had some of those same desires myself after seeing what someone that knows their stuff can do. I had so much trouble with HS Spanish and a few AutoCad Lisp routines that I can't even imagine biting off C++ or some of the other programming languages!
My youngest son though.....now that's a completely different story. :good:
WeekendsR2Short said:
I sure do wish you all the luck in the world Agent. And you certainly want to fashion yourself after three mighty fine developers too. I've had some of those same desires myself after seeing what someone that knows their stuff can do. I had so much trouble with HS Spanish and a few AutoCad Lisp routines that I can't even imagine biting off C++ or some of the other programming languages!
My youngest son though.....now that's a completely different story. :good:
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Click to collapse
I wanna learn while I'm still young, I'm out of school for the time being. I really want to take advantage of these couple Months before life is all about business, and how to properly Manage/Own a T-Mobile.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
NOW is the time my friend before life gets in the way of your youth and ambitions. It WILL distract you and before you know it spare time will seem like it never comes often enough. I admire ALL of you that persue what interests you and learn while that mind is still fresh. KWIM?
WeekendsR2Short said:
NOW is the time my friend before life gets in the way of your youth and ambitions. It WILL distract you and before you know it spare time will seem like it never comes often enough. I admire ALL of you that persue what interests you and learn while that mind is still fresh. KWIM?
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Click to collapse
Hell Yeah, I'm considering taking classes at the local community college for Java. Apparently it's useful for learning Android. I go to a strictly business college. So I can't learn anything related to Android.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
OK, so I have an Idea. I want to do what CM said, and learn the basic. I'm going to use Undeads Sense 3.0 Port as a base, and theme it to Sense 4.0. Remove the Bulletproof settings, and push over another tweak app. I want to make it as fast as possible, and have great battery. I always felt Sense 3.0 was the smoothest Sense rom we ever got. Zero Hickups, and No Lag. I'm going to at least do it on a personal level. Try to get a hold of Undead (he's IP Banned on XDA & Rootz), but it may be hard. Maybe even try and get the Amaze Camera Mod working. Just simple, basic things. Once I get used to the waters, I'll try something bigger. Like Paranoid Android.
I just found an Interesting guide about porting any Sense rom, to any Sense Phone. Pssshh, could you image Sense 2.1 on our phone. That would be sweet. The guide is boosted to be made for the most simplest of minds. So I feel I can take extreme advantage of it.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Keep on plugging - I admire your determination. And please keep letting us know how you're getting on - the start of a journey.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
Alright agent since I can't quote your last post, I was on the inc2 forums and they have a wifi issue that's solved by turning the always on data off
Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G Slide running MikXE
Where is Blue when you need him?
::Respect::
Hey guys!
I would say that making a post or thread like this is really the first step - knowledge can be gained, but the passion, that drive to work through all the tedious testing, retesting, writing and re-writing is not something that can be taught.
So start small.
We all have grand designs, plans and ideas - heck there's so much this device is capable of that I want it to do, starting everything at once just leads to unfinished projects and fragmented learning.
If you bring that excitement, that hunger for knowledge, then the rest falls into place but it takes time.
"I never let school interfere with my education"
...is such a fantastic quote. It's up to you to choose to take the time to sit down and read a technical document, white-paper or tutorial while your friends are out wasting time.
Definitely make time to walk away and socialize with real people, but remember that learning how to do this stuff takes a lot of time, effort and tons of frustration and dead ends.
I've been playing with software code for near 20 years now, and I still consider myself not much past amatuer status.
...and status means literally nothing. The only two things that matter are what you know, and what you don't.
So don't lie to yourself. Don't pretend to know something just because you are afraid of what people will think if they find out you don't. It's okay to say "I don't know"
In fact, it's essential to be able to say that not only to yourself, but to be able to admit that to the community, your friends, whomever.
If you don't, then you have no place to start learning. Pretending to know something just prevents you from actually being able to start learning how to do it.
So, after you are comfortable with a truthful assessment of what you can and can't do, the next step is to figure out how to go about learning what you don't know.
The biggest mistake everyone makes is taking on a huge project because that's what the end goal is.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
...another good one!
I'm sure we've all heard it before, but haven't pondered it so deeply. Another way to say it might be:
"The making of an awesome ROM begins with changing a single icon"
Break down the project you want to do into the smallest possible steps.
Can you decompile an app?
If not, definitely learn how to do that.
Once you have it decompiled, browse all the code. Especially what you don't understand or makes no sense. Don't try to understand it all, just absorb it and get to know what it looks like.
Now do that with every app on your device (play with all the stock apps first - they all came from the same place and reflect a certain coding style)
Now that you've browsed through all the code of all your stock apps, do it again. ...and again ...and again ... and again.
Sick of it yet? It's been a few weeks now and you've learned nothing you can directly use.
This part always separates the people serious about doing it from the ones turned off by all the tedious work with nothing concrete to show for it.
I mean, you've spent a couple of weeks just looking at code with no idea what you are looking at.
What you don't immediately notice is that you start to get a sense of the pattern, the layout, and what things are the same, similar, and completely different.
Now you start looking at tutorials you've read in the past and go 'wow, I know kinda what that means, I saw something like that in the code here!'
Ah - now it begins!
When it gets to be too much, do something you can handle from start to finish.
Change an icon, tweak the color of a font, something simple, but that you can feel the pride of success and accomplishment in.
Can you compile an app?
Decompile a working app - change nothing - then recompile it. Install it on your device.
Does it still work? Probably not.
Why?
Ah - the question that drives us.
9 times out of 10 someone releasing something cool is not because they wanted to make it, but because they wanted to learn how to make it.
One thing people forget all the time is that the stock software on the device is built by teams of people with delegated tasks and diverse talents that TOGETHER contribute to the success of the final product.
You? You're alone. You have to do it all. Graphics, sound, coding, planning, research, testing - you are taking a project that requires untold hours of dedication from a team of people ... Maybe just on the graphics alone. A whole other team is working on sound, another team is working on code, there is management to structure goals and delegate tasks.
Managers who may have no technical ability but a good handle on how to keep everyone moving and workikng cohesively. Other management that is keeping the teams on point with each other.
...and it still takes them lots of time to get things done. Not because it's some bloated over-staffed group with too much red tape (though that does happen) - but more because there is simply so much to do.
The next time I spend 40+ hours behind the keyboard with maybe not even a bathroom break won't be the first nor the last. I've sat down to do something on Friday and had someone stop by on Sunday night and I'm still in my work clothes from my day shift Friday, didn't even realize Saturday came and gone.
Does it all require that level of dedication - no, but, you get lost in it and that can happen. Never force myself to do it, just get caught up in learning it all.
Don't expect too much from yourself. You absolutely have the community behind you and so much knowledge here, tons of people willing to help, but in the end it's up to you.
You to do graphics.
You to do sound.
You to write the code.
You to compile it all.
You to figure out why it doesn't work ( and it rarely does).
For every success, you have many, many failures to get there. Especially starting out. Expect to get it wrong. Expect it to be broke just because you touched it. If it isn't, honestly, you're doing it wrong.
We learn so much less from success then we do from failure. If you aren't failing you aren't learning. If it always works the first time, then you are just doing the same tired stuff you always have.
You wanna learn how to code for Android?
Read everything you can, absorb the forums, go download source and browse it. Decompile all your apps and browse them. Start looking up what you don't know.
For every one thing you do learn, you realize there are ten new things you never knew you didn't know.
Now go learn about them, because each one of them will lead you to something else, or many something elses that you didn't even realize you didn't know.
...and did I mention put lots of time into ignoring what you want to do, and learning how to do it one tiny little piece ata time?
Patience is most important.
The patience to only change one variable, recompile, test, test, and test some more. Then, when you are satisfied with the result of one minor little change, make one more tiny change and repeat the process.
Learn the scientific method, and follow it rigorously. If you don't, might as well not bother getting into this stuff because all you will do is get frustrated.
You have to work slowly, patiently, one small step at a time. Try to predict the result of the tiny change you made, and then see if it was what you thought or a surprise. Why was it a surprise?
The question of why is the only thing that matters. Every one of those you answer is one more weapon at your disposal for the battle, one more tool in your box, one more pencil on your desk.
If you have little to no coding experience and expect to sit down and whip out a ROM, you are only setting yourself up for failure. But one day you can, with hard work, lots and lots of time, uncountable failures and hours of frustration and coding something just to have it not even compile, let alone work.
Have you taken the time to map the device?
When you got it stock, you should have put a file browser on it ( root explorer - just buy it already, you need it) and browsed the entire device.
Take a notebook and write out a full device tree on paper, everything you can see. Every folder, every file or folder in them, sizes, permissions, any detail you can see.
Why? Because it already works. You are lookoing at how a working ROM is structured.
I mean, how can you make something if you don't know what it is, looks like, how it acts?
Learned ADB and fastboot yet? Why not? You wonNt be successful if you don't.
This is a pretty long list already - and we've barely scratched the surface. A ROM is not a Sunday afternoon project - a ROM is a dedicated months and months long never ending project that eats up more time then you have every day.
So I'll leave you with one last thing before I go make a thread that people aren't gonna want to see - but I'm not leaving you guys, far from it.
Learn algebra, learn it well, or don't bother attempting to write code. (Or work in any construction trades/build anything professionally.)
Algebra is the single most important learned skill one can pick up across just about anything you can ever do with your life, and absolutely vital in computing.
There really is no "go here, learn this" method - you need to aquire the skills necessary to succeed in your project.
So go break something (minor - don't brick your phone) and then learn how to fix it. ...and pay attention in math class.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Huge Epic Post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's like your a warlock and when I typed your name, POOF! :victory:
This post covers every aspect you could ask for, I'm sure Agent isn't the only one who will gain knowledge from this post, thanks Blue!:highfive:
CoNsPiRiSiZe said:
It's like your a warlock and when I typed your name, POOF! :victory:
This post covers every aspect you could ask for, I'm sure Agent isn't the only one who will gain knowledge from this post, thanks Blue!:highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hell. Yeah. I'm just going to start theming. I want to make the ICS messaging Icon blue, and a blacked out UI.
Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G Slide using Tapatalk 2
I just got ubuntu on my computer, spent an hour trying to install java lol. Now to figure out why adb doesn't work the way it does in windows haha.
edit: finally got adb working. i have no idea what i did, but after installing a bunch of different libs, time to start exploring haha =D
ekoee said:
I just got ubuntu on my computer, spent an hour trying to install java lol. Now to figure out why adb doesn't work the way it does in windows haha.
edit: finally got adb working. i have no idea what i did, but after installing a bunch of different libs, time to start exploring haha =D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Java was a b***h when I installed an unsupported version for compiling. This is helpful though it will guide you through installing and it can even switch java versions if you don't like your current one
AgentCherryColla said:
Hell. Yeah. I'm just going to start theming. I want to make the ICS messaging Icon blue, and a blacked out UI.
Sent from my HTC MyTouch 4G Slide using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw this done on AOKP website as a mod, i think this plus built in messaging pop up like an MIUI thing would b beast
::Respect::
ekoee said:
I just got ubuntu on my computer, spent an hour trying to install java lol. Now to figure out why adb doesn't work the way it does in windows haha.
edit: finally got adb working. i have no idea what i did, but after installing a bunch of different libs, time to start exploring haha =D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, i'll tell ya - if you had to pick the one thing someone would do to take a step into learning to bend android to your will, installing linux is the best reply possible.
Windows is great to get your feet wet, and can manage some things more easily - frilly stuff, eye candy type details.
If you want to talk about experiencing the thrilling joys of success all that invested effort brings - doing so on a linux box is so much more rewarding then on a windows box.
Definitely see about getting a second monitor if you can swing it. Working with two display panels more then doubles your productivity. You can have a tutorial on one screen and be following along on the other.
That aside, one reason the linux box is so much more rewarding is because of the range of things you can mess with.
You can't work with a kernel in windows. Already right there the most important part of the ROM is off limits to you in a windows box. (as I sit here typing this on windows - mind you.)
Another reason linux is so sweet to work on for coding android is that they speak the same language. Writing code is quicker and easier, connecting the device happens more seamlessly and swiftly.
All these little things add up to save you time.
...and time is your greatest hindrance. It slips by all too quickly and then you are obligated to walk away and do something else. So being able to squeeze more work into less time is the consistent refinement of what you know.
Rarely do you learn how to do something the most efficient way on your own, and really that is the heart of open source. You can see how someone else did something, and learn from how they got there.
I've communicated with people I couldn't speak the language of through code, sending changes back and forth without any written correspondence.
To be able to explain the various joys and experiences learning computer coding has brought me would be impossible. There is so much intangible awesomeness that comes from investing time into learning all of this.
Especially since cell phones are so popular and mobile computing is so easy any more. Being able to bend the device in your hand precisely to your will is ever becoming a more important skill to have.
For those wanting to invest that time into what brings us all here collectively, the rewards really are beyond what you would think starting out.
As much as I wanna delv into this as ACC, I simply have no time haha. However, learning this now will probably help me in the future, so why not.
At the very least I'll finally know what you guys are talking about in the dev section lol.
Blue6IX said:
Another reason linux is so sweet to work on for coding android is that they speak the same language. Writing code is quicker and easier, connecting the device happens more seamlessly and swiftly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Install Linux, learn to love it, and learn to customize it. A big part of setting linux up the way you want involves working in a command line, troubleshooting when errors come up, building, and compiling. The time you spend troubleshooting and customizing everything on your linux box will familiarize you with all the commands, shortcuts, quirks, and understanding of why this does that in a linux environment, and will help you to no end.
I'm going to get a new Laptop before school starts up again. Then I can finally get cracking
Related
So I've been palying around with the Android SDK. I've done a bit of developing before, but never in Java. The Android APIs are pretty well documented, but I'm missing the basics of Java programming (data types, declaring variables and constants, file operations, etc.).
Does anyone have any suggested references? I've been digging some myself but it's slow going.
If you haven't already, check out http://www.helloandroid.com , http://www.anddev.org , and look for O'Reilly books on Java or skip the first five chapters of "Java for Dummies."
Both of those are really focused on Android specifically. Anddev.org is really for developers while HelloAndroid.com is more of a blog and not much technical info.
Here's the best site I was able to find about the Java basics.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Java_Programming/Overview
After that it just learning the APIs, and I think Anddev is really going to be the site to watch on that.
I thought I'd share in case there are other aspirng developers watching.
Developing Thread
I didn't know where to add this, but if you need to move it to the right thread please do.
I want to start developing, but I don't know any Java. I'm sure that you guys probably know some books that I can pick up to start learning. Actually any advice or resources would be great since.
Ever since i got the G1 and seeing everybody speaking code it realy started to interest me. So any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
I heard the dummy books aren't that good to start off with, but thanks I'll still look at it.
Bump,
Come on people i know you have some ideas, so i can learn java or anything to develop for Android.
Im also thinkin about starting or trying to develop for Android, like how would I start off makin a custom rom build?
Come on guys
See here
Christopher3712 said:
Come on guys
See here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that would have worked great if you spelled develop right LOL
The thing with programming textbooks is no one can ever agree on what book is "best". Some people like books that are basically just giant lists of functions and their syntaxes, some people like books with a lot of examples, some people like books that primarily explain the most basic functions in plain English. Some folks don't like to use books at all and learn programming purely from studying others' source code.
A lot of the Java-specific books written in the past decade are written without requiring pre-existing knowledge of C++, which would be good if you have never programmed in any language before. I think the "Headfirst Java" volume is supposed to be well-regarded, but I can't say that from personal experience.
Of course, you could always just find your local community college/adult school/vocational center and sign up for Java classes. Some community colleges might place Java far down in the CS track and make you take prerequisite courses. Depending on how the course is set up, what text it uses, and how much ground it intends to cover, it may or may not have prerequisites.
Good luck
neoobs said:
that would have worked great if you spelled develop right LOL
Click to expand...
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lol, i'm just all over the place today! no matter, i made my point
Christopher3712 said:
lol, i'm just all over the place today! no matter, i made my point
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasnt referring to apps, but thanks?
Christopher3712 said:
Come on guys
See here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG hahahahaha i love it!
Learning to Develope on Android
I want to learn how to develop apks, use the SDK to its fall extent. I put Debian on my phone and windows x , made a couple of my own themes. However, i want to do more i just don't how the knowledge to do so. i tried to read on how to use java, c++, c.net, etc but I'm just not picking it up all to well. I just installed Ubuntu on my computer but my knowledge of Linux is very little. I'm welling to put the time and effort into learning how do these thing but I'm getting no where. Watching people like JK come out with roms just makes me want to do the same. i also just updated to the new SDK but for some reason it won't work (haven't gone around to find out why thou). Can anyone help me out, maybe point to toward some good sources, books, or whatever. i love messing with me G1 i just want to take it to the next level. i finish school on the 20th of this month and i have till July 15th of free time ( i leave for Basic Training). so i would like to get started between these times.
If a similar thread was already made i'm very sorry i searched like crazy to find one but had no luck, so please don't get made if there is one just point me to it.
THANK YOU
www.android.com
find source code to play with and read, read, read!
dead2hill said:
www.android.com
find source code to play with and read, read, read!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have read so much my head could explode, but i think I'm reading from the wrong sources or just not getting it at all. I'm reading some books i got from friends with Master Degrees in this stuff and they are just confusing me.
The major problem is I'm a fantastic hands on learner but i have no one with the spare time to help on any of these. I've been taking the Cisco Academy Online and didn't get any of it until i had someone help with a hands on learning and it all just flowed right into me easily now i'm close to getting my CCNA.
But i'll keep reading till i get it, some day
fankly i would say if you wanna make apps then read a buch of tutorials, stare ata lot a source code. and create a few simple things first. i have not bothered with any of the sample's with the SDK because i just don't like them. i do however read lots of code daily and am currently trying to find the best way to get my app running. i am one of those people that if handeed source code i could tell you what it does and when, but if told to write a program that does something it will take ages for me to figure out. even with a year of both java and VB .net under the belt i still don't know much since those classes where a long time ago. read lots of code and you could probably benefit from having a java book around too
I found the sample code and tutorials shipped with the SDK very educational, and would recommend the soon-to-be Android developer to plow thru them. They give you (at least they gave me!) a basic understanding of how Android apps are supposed to work.
If you're not used to general Java development at all, I recommend starting out with a beginners book on Java development first.
/Mats
@hellsonlyangel - I have the same desire to learn how application development as you, particularly Android development. I've done the same as you over the years, reading tons of books and online tutorials on programming, but learning very little. I am taking a very general, but comprehensive, scripting course right now as a part of my Network Admin degree program, and I fell that I understand more after 2 weeks in this course than I did from all of my self study attempts. Sometimes, there's just no substitute to structured learning programs. The ISBN for the book that my course is using is 1418836338. It can be had on the cheap, used for around $8, just in case you want to check it out. Good luck.
hellsonlyangel said:
I want to learn how to develop apks, use the SDK to its fall extent. I put Debian on my phone and windows x , made a couple of my own themes. However, i want to do more i just don't how the knowledge to do so. i tried to read on how to use java, c++, c.net, etc but I'm just not picking it up all to well. I just installed Ubuntu on my computer but my knowledge of Linux is very little. I'm welling to put the time and effort into learning how do these thing but I'm getting no where. Watching people like JK come out with roms just makes me want to do the same. i also just updated to the new SDK but for some reason it won't work (haven't gone around to find out why thou). Can anyone help me out, maybe point to toward some good sources, books, or whatever. i love messing with me G1 i just want to take it to the next level. i finish school on the 20th of this month and i have till July 15th of free time ( i leave for Basic Training). so i would like to get started between these times.
If a similar thread was already made i'm very sorry i searched like crazy to find one but had no luck, so please don't get made if there is one just point me to it.
THANK YOU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the best way I found to learn this is through trial and error. I will write code for a simple program, for instance a clock app. I will work on it until it does what I want it to then I will trash the code and build it again using what I just learned. It's just a lot of practice and don't get too deep until you have a full grasp of the concepts behind programming. You'll just get stuck and frustrated.
I've been a member of XDA Forums since about October (when I got my vibrant). And I wad wondering how to become a developer. I feel like I should help contribute to this community instead of just being someone downloading and flashing. Im planning on majoring in computer science in college and I know it will help me with this type of stuff but I cant wait another year (Junior in high school)... I would really appreciate it if you guys would point me in the right direction or take me under your wing so I could pursue this interest.
dcaples002 said:
I've been a member of XDA Forums since about October (when I got my vibrant). And I wad wondering how to become a developer. I feel like I should help contribute to this community instead of just being someone downloading and flashing. Im planning on majoring in computer science in college and I know it will help me with this type of stuff but I cant wait another year (Junior in high school)... I would really appreciate it if you guys would point me in the right direction or take me under your wing so I could pursue this interest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm doing computer science also to become a dev, I'm a senior! I have no idea, but I would love to dev also, I know it takes a lot of work though.
Step 1 - cut a hole in the box
step 2 - put your junk in the box
step 3 - make her open the box
step 4 - and that's how you do it (its my d$#* in a box)
haha naw i'm jk, I would like a clear way on how to dev specifically for the vibrant, I've seen a bunch of different ideas and tutorials on how to do it, but their specific for that phone, and its hard to comprehend on how to put the knowledge to the vibrant
Yea I know its alot of hard work but it will all pay off in the end.
I think it would be nice if one of the vibrant developers put up a video of how to become a developer and a video of him/her cooking up a rom. Im sure alot of people would take intrest to that. It would also give us enough knowledge to maybe be able to develop other phones or programs.
Learn your way around a linux box as it's pretty much necessary to compile source and what not. If you're wanting to develop programs for Android, learn some Java...
there's a few good e-books on amazon for android developing if you can learn from books.
I think you should start out with themes....so you know exactly which apks control what...which XMLs control what...then get some Linux knowledge so you can know how to tweak for speed....then start to learn some Java and Smali code....and do a sh*t load of research....i tried to create my own ROM based from official Vibrant source....MAJOR FAIL ...i think my phone went into shock ....but find someone who is willing to teach you...but make sure you're patient enough to learn.
Due to the nature of vibrant roms anyone can be a developer! That's a good and bad thing. Anyways... best way to learn is to learn Java. Android is built on it. It may not loom like it on the surface but it helps (ask whitehawk). Mr apocalypse's advice is probably the best.
Also a video is a horrible idea(no offense). It will empower people who have no business making roms to make them. Do you want people who don't know how to make a flashable zip making roms for your phone? It could potentially lead to bad things...
I was where you were a couple years ago (not that I'm much further ahead). Learn you some Linux. Learn you some theming and try and make a simple app for android.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
does anyone know how to get the "/" symbol to work in terminal emulator? i tried softkeys, special keys. No luck. Im so close to installing modaco 4.0.0.9
for the final step i need the "/" symbol. i can use the "\" symbol but that's not the right symbol. please help.
Honestly you guys, I do search alot before I post anything. I never thought to use the on screen keyboard. I found out how.. I've been on this site for days and days researching, everything. I always use the hardware keyboard. Never the on screen keyboard. (sighs...sorry)
[email protected] said:
Honestly you guys, I do search alot before I post anything. I never thought to use the on screen keyboard. I found out how.. I've been on this site for days and days researching, everything. I always use the hardware keyboard. Never the on screen keyboard. (sighs...sorry)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it is a bit of a pisser that key doesn't work correctly in terminals.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=17724216&postcount=5
Lol. I did get it to flash modaco tho. Just finished back up with Titanium. Hopefully now i should be able to flash a rom. O ya... When im in Hboot the screen will tell me no image..no image.. no image..no image. It will auto run this in green all the way down the screen. Why?
[email protected] said:
Lol. I did get it to flash modaco tho. Just finished back up with Titanium. Hopefully now i should be able to flash a rom. O ya... When im in Hboot the screen will tell me no image..no image.. no image..no image. It will auto run this in green all the way down the screen. Why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All hboots do that. My g2 does that and my wifes MT4G as well.
Sent from my Undeadk9's Senseless ROM using xda premium
Undeadk9... what an honer to reply to you. I've read all your posts. I wanna flash your latest Senseless..Sounds fast. I myself would like to thank you for all the hard work you put into this forum. You do a wonderful job. Your posts and comments mean alot. I'm such a noob but love phones and cpu's. I really would love to fluently learn how to do anything that involves those things,but have no idea where to begin. What would you suggest I learn? I ask because you know what your talking about. Do you mind if i contact you in a pm or something just to bleed your brain sometime? Think about it. Thanks again!!
The problem is the question mark key.
Check all your other alt keys in terminal emulator - they all work except for the darned question mark key - both regular and alt read as a tilde.
I guess that having the question mark as a hardware key is something that terminal emulators aren't coded for...very few phones have that actual hardware key.
I got a feeling that if you remap the alt character to another key it'll work - it may or may not, but that's where i'd start.
This is one of those "I should look into that" but haven't found the time to do so, maybe check the keylayout mod guide in the dev section to start tinkering with it.
It's on my long list of things to do with this phone, my recent obsession with trying to overclock without kernel source kinda pushed everything else to the side.
Someone will probably get around to this before I do, but if not sooner or later i'll puzzle it out.
Thanx buddy for the reply!! My obsession is this forum... and my daughter of course
I hope you figure out the OC as well! Boy I wish I could help but I don't know how to. Where do you think I should start? Where should a noob begin to learn how to do anything...o_0 lol
You're honestly in the best place to start. XDA is home to some...thinking about it i'd say most... of the people online across all the random messageboards, news postings and whatnot who are all into the same thing and realize that by sharing what we know we can all work on bits and pieces of the larger picture.
Ever since I found XDA, I realized this was the place I was always looking for on the internet. Some of the most learned and skilled people i've met across the internet are scattered around these forums, and I found their works here.
The best advice to anyone new coming to XDA or trying to learn here, specifically, is that since so many people share so much, it's absolutely overwhelming the first time you wander around the XDA forums.
Use the search feature, as everyone rightly suggests, but the one thing that people never get right is managing their excitement.
You're home, you found the place where there are so many answers to and relating to your question, you get giddy. I know I did.
Resist the urge to just dive in and start asking questions. Put away your need to have the answer right now - I know it's just your nature, it's the tendency of people...any people...to just act like that. It's how we've progressed as a species, the aggresive need to know, solve, conquer...right this second.
That's wrong. When I found XDA, I browsed here for a while...sometimes for specific answers, other times just randomly through all the forums looking at...well...whatever random stuff I could find.
The thing about search is, it's great if you want a specific answer, because you keep finding more keywords and phrases to track down that will eventually lead you to the information you seek.
If you can't find the answer here at XDA, your quest to find it on your own without asking will turn up the people you could ask to help figure it out - something you miss just asking for it or exclusively using search.
Basically, just don't be too eager. The boards are way too big, populated by people that want to share what they know, so the amount of information here is too much to get through in one sitting. The first time I found this place I didn't leave my keyboard for more then a few minutes for almost 6 days.
I registered because I finally had something that I could share. My first device was the Nook Color, and by the time I got one the forums were jumping and so many choices for what you could do and how to do it were there ... it was my first android device and development was progressing so fast I couldn't keep up with learning it all from the ground up.
I stopped and focused on some topic I could expand on or in some way contribute, and it ended up being pretty in depth testing on MicroSD cards. I had a handful laying around, and running the Nook Color from the memory card instead of the internal memory will pass or fail depending on the memory card...and the one you instinctively want is wrong.
So, use the search function before posting something specific, don't forget to browse sometimes if you have some free time, it's like treasure hunting.
When I realized what this device ( MT4GS ) was capable of after coming to the MT4GS forums here to research if I really did want it or not...the TV-OUT thread was my seller. I am spellbound by this device, there's nothing else like it on the market at the moment.
I just couldn't miss out on playing with what I think will be the prototype model of what all phones will strive to do as technologies get assimilated across phones and carriers.
Being able to walk up to a TV and use the phone as not only an interactive game controller, but the console itself as well - with the TV bit being done so well that it's something you don't even have to think about other then if you want to or not. No special set up, just plug and play. I'm a fan.
But you know what? It's an unlisted feature that's rumored/probably true/unfinished in the phone.
( haven't looked into this in a while, maybe untrue but I found out about it here at XDA and remember reading that somewhere...every T-mobile rep i've seen has this phone, I talk to every one, and not a single one of them knew they could plug their device into a TV, let alone have some intense gaming experiences.
Not bad for something that's not mentioned - this should have been the selling point for the phone.
Thing is, without XDA, I wouldn't know how to do a fraction of what I know how to do with Android. Just sifting through everything here has taught me so much, but you have to have the patience to sit and take your time learning. Otherwise, even if you pull it off, six months from now you'll have to probably start over tracking down what you read before to do it again.
The more detailed and accurate the information that everyone posts, the more we all learn together.
Know what the big secret is, that I try to tell everyone?
The best way to cement the knowledge you've gained into your brain is to try to teach it to someone else. They'll think of questions you might never, approach from different perspectives with different tactics, and challenge you to know it well enough to be able to answer something you haven't thought about before on the spot.
I've been studying my whole life to be a teacher when I get older and can't hack physical stuff anymore, and try to freely teach anyone anything I know. The more I educate others, the more they educate me, and the more instinctively I know whatever we were working on.
Let me reiterate, again from a different perspective with different reasoning, the only way you learn something is to have the patience to do it - but the same goes for teaching. You have to have the patience to sit there and let the student get the answer, and the restraint to not give it to them and make them work for it so they remember it longer.
Analogies are king in getting through to people, but to be able to use analogies effectively for random people you have to be at least semi-educated on, well, everything.
Take a job in a retail store, any local big box popular electronics store. Sell computers, smart phones, or things like that. Then try to relate how the computer works to everyone you explain it to. Once you know some subject they are familiar with that you know, you can compare like functions to give them understandings.
Do yourself a favor - the next time you go to sit down in front of a television, pick up a book instead. (bonus points if you also grab a thesaurus)
Vocabulary and the contents of the thesaurus are the primary tools you need to use well for search. Forget all the ways a search engine works for you and remember that you need to not only search what you're looking for, but all the other ways of saying or describing what you want.
If you search fire, you get one set of results. What about ember, blaze, smolder, incinerate, char, smoke, fuel, tinder...etc...
If you have to look up all those synonyms every time you want to search for something, not only does it take longer (impatience again) but you are less likely to actually do it because of all the extra steps you have to take.
Phrase your posts well, try to punctualize, capitalize, and generally make what you're saying presentable. It takes me longer to decipher some internet shorthand, because they aren't acronyms I study. It hurts me on messageboards, but helps keep my vocabulary instinctively clean elsewhere.
On that turn, i'm more likely to read and/or respond to someone who actually took enough time to write their post, instead of just scratching out the first string of letters that looked close to some resemblance of the words they were trying to write.
( I know that's extreme, but that's another teaching tool, exploring extremes and understanding boundaries and capability - the foundation for your ability to reason )
So, you caught me at a time where i'm writing a curriculum for learning how to learn, techniques and approaches and such for someone I am going to start teaching android to. As much as it seems like i'm rambling here, all my postings tonight have been sprinkled with little methods or things to do to increase your speed, accuracy and ability to learn itself because that's what i'm working on right this minute.
It's been a long, hard, physical week at work. While rewarding and I feel great about what i've done, my body is not so happy at the moment. Trying to get into a new project with my MT4GS tonight is probably pushing it, so instead i'm just sitting here writing up what i've learned about learning, typing to me is very relaxing and keeps me active in spirit while mostly resting in the physical sense.
This is why they say knowledge is power, because you have to build knowledge on other knowledge. The more you understand and exploit the learning process to work for you, consciously and directly, the more natural and fluid it becomes.
If you learn what you need to learn to learn better (say that 3 times fast) you will become more efficient - and that's part of why we all get together here to do this stuff to our phones.
It's challenging, it's fun, it's a never-ending exercise in discovering cool new things or flat out creating brand new ideas of your own.
Part of what's been feeding my excitement with this phone, besides it's indisputable awesomeness, is the fact that it's new and there's an air of freshness to all the time being put into it. It's not like my last device where I showed up and found all the answers, this time I get to find and share some of them.
But that's the constant state of learning, the browsing all over XDA, setting up specific projects (tonight i'll learn how to make a livewallpaper, etc...) and creating manageable, short term goals along the road to a bigger destination.
The destination is reached much more interestingly with others, and when we all get there it's one big party together. This goal is made easier and sooner the more people that play.
Another thing is, I try to share what I post as thoroughly and accurately as possible. 2 Great reasons to take an extra minute and check something, or look it up again to make sure that it's right.
1-Someone else can build off your solid base, and spend less time learning what you were trying to convey
2-If i'm wrong, someone will speak up. There are so many learned people here, someone will see what I did wrong and if not why, someone else can probably explain it or get us started on finding out why.
So please, don't hesitate to correct me on something if you know i'm wrong. we all benefit from it, and is part of the motivation to be as thorough as I try to be.
Hope that the length of this post is justified by the content I tried to convey, you caught me in a typing mood with an open-ended question.
Blue6IX said:
You're honestly in the best place to start. XDA is home to some...thinking about it i'd say most... of the people online across all the random messageboards, news postings and whatnot who are all into the same thing and realize that by sharing what we know we can all work on bits and pieces of the larger picture.
Ever since I found XDA, I realized this was the place I was always looking for on the internet. Some of the most learned and skilled people i've met across the internet are scattered around these forums, and I found their works here.
The best advice to anyone new coming to XDA or trying to learn here, specifically, is that since so many people share so much, it's absolutely overwhelming the first time you wander around the XDA forums.
Use the search feature, as everyone rightly suggests, but the one thing that people never get right is managing their excitement.
You're home, you found the place where there are so many answers to and relating to your question, you get giddy. I know I did.
Resist the urge to just dive in and start asking questions. Put away your need to have the answer right now - I know it's just your nature, it's the tendency of people...any people...to just act like that. It's how we've progressed as a species, the aggresive need to know, solve, conquer...right this second.
That's wrong. When I found XDA, I browsed here for a while...sometimes for specific answers, other times just randomly through all the forums looking at...well...whatever random stuff I could find.
The thing about search is, it's great if you want a specific answer, because you keep finding more keywords and phrases to track down that will eventually lead you to the information you seek.
If you can't find the answer here at XDA, your quest to find it on your own without asking will turn up the people you could ask to help figure it out - something you miss just asking for it or exclusively using search.
Basically, just don't be too eager. The boards are way too big, populated by people that want to share what they know, so the amount of information here is too much to get through in one sitting. The first time I found this place I didn't leave my keyboard for more then a few minutes for almost 6 days.
I registered because I finally had something that I could share. My first device was the Nook Color, and by the time I got one the forums were jumping and so many choices for what you could do and how to do it were there ... it was my first android device and development was progressing so fast I couldn't keep up with learning it all from the ground up.
I stopped and focused on some topic I could expand on or in some way contribute, and it ended up being pretty in depth testing on MicroSD cards. I had a handful laying around, and running the Nook Color from the memory card instead of the internal memory will pass or fail depending on the memory card...and the one you instinctively want is wrong.
So, use the search function before posting something specific, don't forget to browse sometimes if you have some free time, it's like treasure hunting.
When I realized what this device ( MT4GS ) was capable of after coming to the MT4GS forums here to research if I really did want it or not...the TV-OUT thread was my seller. I am spellbound by this device, there's nothing else like it on the market at the moment.
I just couldn't miss out on playing with what I think will be the prototype model of what all phones will strive to do as technologies get assimilated across phones and carriers.
Being able to walk up to a TV and use the phone as not only an interactive game controller, but the console itself as well - with the TV bit being done so well that it's something you don't even have to think about other then if you want to or not. No special set up, just plug and play. I'm a fan.
But you know what? It's an unlisted feature that's rumored/probably true/unfinished in the phone.
( haven't looked into this in a while, maybe untrue but I found out about it here at XDA and remember reading that somewhere...every T-mobile rep i've seen has this phone, I talk to every one, and not a single one of them knew they could plug their device into a TV, let alone have some intense gaming experiences.
Not bad for something that's not mentioned - this should have been the selling point for the phone.
Thing is, without XDA, I wouldn't know how to do a fraction of what I know how to do with Android. Just sifting through everything here has taught me so much, but you have to have the patience to sit and take your time learning. Otherwise, even if you pull it off, six months from now you'll have to probably start over tracking down what you read before to do it again.
The more detailed and accurate the information that everyone posts, the more we all learn together.
Know what the big secret is, that I try to tell everyone?
The best way to cement the knowledge you've gained into your brain is to try to teach it to someone else. They'll think of questions you might never, approach from different perspectives with different tactics, and challenge you to know it well enough to be able to answer something you haven't thought about before on the spot.
I've been studying my whole life to be a teacher when I get older and can't hack physical stuff anymore, and try to freely teach anyone anything I know. The more I educate others, the more they educate me, and the more instinctively I know whatever we were working on.
Let me reiterate, again from a different perspective with different reasoning, the only way you learn something is to have the patience to do it - but the same goes for teaching. You have to have the patience to sit there and let the student get the answer, and the restraint to not give it to them and make them work for it so they remember it longer.
Analogies are king in getting through to people, but to be able to use analogies effectively for random people you have to be at least semi-educated on, well, everything.
Take a job in a retail store, any local big box popular electronics store. Sell computers, smart phones, or things like that. Then try to relate how the computer works to everyone you explain it to. Once you know some subject they are familiar with that you know, you can compare like functions to give them understandings.
Do yourself a favor - the next time you go to sit down in front of a television, pick up a book instead. (bonus points if you also grab a thesaurus)
Vocabulary and the contents of the thesaurus are the primary tools you need to use well for search. Forget all the ways a search engine works for you and remember that you need to not only search what you're looking for, but all the other ways of saying or describing what you want.
If you search fire, you get one set of results. What about ember, blaze, smolder, incinerate, char, smoke, fuel, tinder...etc...
If you have to look up all those synonyms every time you want to search for something, not only does it take longer (impatience again) but you are less likely to actually do it because of all the extra steps you have to take.
Phrase your posts well, try to punctualize, capitalize, and generally make what you're saying presentable. It takes me longer to decipher some internet shorthand, because they aren't acronyms I study. It hurts me on messageboards, but helps keep my vocabulary instinctively clean elsewhere.
On that turn, i'm more likely to read and/or respond to someone who actually took enough time to write their post, instead of just scratching out the first string of letters that looked close to some resemblance of the words they were trying to write.
( I know that's extreme, but that's another teaching tool, exploring extremes and understanding boundaries and capability - the foundation for your ability to reason )
So, you caught me at a time where i'm writing a curriculum for learning how to learn, techniques and approaches and such for someone I am going to start teaching android to. As much as it seems like i'm rambling here, all my postings tonight have been sprinkled with little methods or things to do to increase your speed, accuracy and ability to learn itself because that's what i'm working on right this minute.
It's been a long, hard, physical week at work. While rewarding and I feel great about what i've done, my body is not so happy at the moment. Trying to get into a new project with my MT4GS tonight is probably pushing it, so instead i'm just sitting here writing up what i've learned about learning, typing to me is very relaxing and keeps me active in spirit while mostly resting in the physical sense.
This is why they say knowledge is power, because you have to build knowledge on other knowledge. The more you understand and exploit the learning process to work for you, consciously and directly, the more natural and fluid it becomes.
If you learn what you need to learn to learn better (say that 3 times fast) you will become more efficient - and that's part of why we all get together here to do this stuff to our phones.
It's challenging, it's fun, it's a never-ending exercise in discovering cool new things or flat out creating brand new ideas of your own.
Part of what's been feeding my excitement with this phone, besides it's indisputable awesomeness, is the fact that it's new and there's an air of freshness to all the time being put into it. It's not like my last device where I showed up and found all the answers, this time I get to find and share some of them.
But that's the constant state of learning, the browsing all over XDA, setting up specific projects (tonight i'll learn how to make a livewallpaper, etc...) and creating manageable, short term goals along the road to a bigger destination.
The destination is reached much more interestingly with others, and when we all get there it's one big party together. This goal is made easier and sooner the more people that play.
Another thing is, I try to share what I post as thoroughly and accurately as possible. 2 Great reasons to take an extra minute and check something, or look it up again to make sure that it's right.
1-Someone else can build off your solid base, and spend less time learning what you were trying to convey
2-If i'm wrong, someone will speak up. There are so many learned people here, someone will see what I did wrong and if not why, someone else can probably explain it or get us started on finding out why.
So please, don't hesitate to correct me on something if you know i'm wrong. we all benefit from it, and is part of the motivation to be as thorough as I try to be.
Hope that the length of this post is justified by the content I tried to convey, you caught me in a typing mood with an open-ended question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are king of long statements.
Sent from my Undeadk9's Senseless ROM using xda premium
[email protected] said:
Undeadk9... what an honer to reply to you. I've read all your posts. I wanna flash your latest Senseless..Sounds fast. I myself would like to thank you for all the hard work you put into this forum. You do a wonderful job. Your posts and comments mean alot. I'm such a noob but love phones and cpu's. I really would love to fluently learn how to do anything that involves those things,but have no idea where to begin. What would you suggest I learn? I ask because you know what your talking about. Do you mind if i contact you in a pm or something just to bleed your brain sometime? Think about it. Thanks again!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honor? Im just an every day joe with ubuntu 11.04 and rom kitchen sprinkled with java on my laptop. that also makes roms. Lol.
Sent from my Undeadk9's Senseless ROM using xda premium
The only way I got around not being able to type the / character on my mt4gs keyboard in the terminal emulator when I flashed modaco was to type out the command line in a text message, copy, then paste in the emulator. Works like a charm.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
Bravo Blue6lX. That was very well written. Amazing. I personally can relate to a majority of what you spoke of in this post,my favorite being,"the one thing that people never get right is managing their excitement". I am a poster boy for that very same thing. Even in the real world I struggle with that. I have to take a second to breath,lol. When I signed on to this forum I read the rules and began my quest to further educate myself in Android... baby crying gotta run thanks again your posts are very inspiring! I enjoy reading them very much, your a wise man. Thesaurus on the list for the day!! Have a great day
[email protected] said:
Bravo Blue6lX. That was very well written. Amazing. I personally can relate to a majority of what you spoke of in this post,my favorite being,"the one thing that people never get right is managing their excitement". I am a poster boy for that very same thing. Even in the real world I struggle with that. I have to take a second to breath,lol. When I signed on to this forum I read the rules and began my quest to further educate myself in Android... baby crying gotta run thanks again your posts are very inspiring! I enjoy reading them very much, your a wise man. Thesaurus on the list for the day!! Have a great day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you got what I was trying to say. Looking back at it now that i've slept, showered, and got a pot of coffee in me i'd have written that a lot differently. I passed out right after posting that, when I got home I was so physically exhausted...yet too mentally awake to sleep. Normally i'd just browse around learning stuff on the computer and be rested, but I really needed to actually sleep.
I figure as long as I make sure anything I post in the developers section is as concise and clear as I can make it, what gets posted in these other sections can be a bit more general, but that posting was a bit convoluted even by my standards.
Not to drag your thread too far away from the original question, but once you free yourself from the "answer right now" impulse, XDA has several lifetimes worth of stuff to learn how to do just sitting here waiting for you to discover it.
The best way to get started is to just pick something, something small, and learn how to do it completely. Then go on from there. The other day I wanted to spend like a half an hour getting some icons...but one thing led to another which led to photoshop and a few hours later I had a new boot animation for my device I made from scratch.
It's not what I came here to do or to learn, wasn't even in my head when I sat down at the computer. But, I let myself just wander and followed the direction my interest evolved in and that's where I ended up. Sometimes that's the way it goes, and it was a fun experience.
You lose the opportunity for something like that to happen when you just ask a question and get spoon-fed an answer. I'm a big fan of the idea that if you really want to get something done, then just do it yourself. Why sit and wait for someone else to do it, while you could be spending that time doing it yourself. You need knowledge to be able to do that, though, and that's what XDA is a place to share.
The more quickly and completely you can process and assimilate the knowledge, the more you can learn in a shorter time with less frustration. It really pays to take the time to develop good habits and methods for learning.
The answer to whatever you want to know in most cases is not nearly as worthwhile as knowing how to figure out that answer.
Sometimes you just need a quick solution to fix something broken, the HTCLoggers security vulnerability is a great example of a valid "need a fix now" situation. Much thanks to undeadk9 for a quick resolution to that issue.
...but if it's not mission critical to do whatever it is right this second, why rush?
The easier you come by the answer, the easier you forget it.
That's why knowing how other related activities can help you across the spectrum of things you get involved in is important. Reading is a great example.
If you read books by a variety of authors, you pick up different ways of saying the same thing, are exposed to different words and so on. When you sit down to search for something, you now have many more avenues to travel in the breadth of keywords and phrases to use before hitting a dictionary or thesaurus or something. Consciously encouraging that fringe benefit of the activity of reading compounds it's effectiveness, because you will intentionally seek out authors that write differently then each other and maximize your gain for time invested.
Back to the subject at hand, the issue with terminal emulator. There are a couple of threads about this issue right here in the MT4GS section of XDA. If you browse through them, you will find different pieces of the puzzle sitting there.
Furthermore, you'll find people who have tested different terminal emulators, so you can ask them what they've found, or encourage them to share their findings to add information to the issue. You'll also find the other people interested in solving the problem, so sooner or later the right combination of people with the motivation, skills, and time to invest will come together in a thread and generate a solution.
...and that's why I love the open source community mindset of XDA. The gratification of "hey, look what I found!" is here, because it's all worthwhile. The puzzle isn't put together until we have all the pieces, and each one that is found and shared is one less to find. For the community as a whole, what you've found is just as important as how you share it.
Some people are great at figuring out what the puzzle pieces are. Others are great at creating those pieces. Other people shine at putting those pieces together to finish the picture. All those talents are expressed to some degree by the people coming through here, this place is amazing.
Now consider, if you just ask a question and get an answer, well, that's great for you or anyone with that exact problem. But for other people in the future trying to figure out that problem, that may not be so helpful.
What if someone comes through with the same problem, but a new firmware version or something where the solution doesn't work anymore. Generally speaking, the method used to find that solution would work again to generate a new, updated answer, but since only the answer and not the method was given...
So the "need it now" attitude really just impairs everyone's ability to move forward past a certain point, because then it gets into people asking questions that have already been answered...sometimes on that very page in the forum...because they didn't take a minute to see if the question had already been fielded and resolved.
I know XDA is huge and can be overwhelming, but having been with the MT4GS since there weren't many posts in this section of XDA, I already see it happening here too. It's just human nature, and some people don't even realize it.
So i'll leave it there, since you were asking about how to get the most out of using XDA, and this is just something i've observed in my time here.
"The answer to whatever you want to know in most cases is not nearly as worthwhile as knowing how to figure out that answer".
"The easier you come by the answer, the easier you forget it".
"So the "need it now" attitude really just impairs everyone's ability to move forward past a certain point".
Your a great teacher Blue6lx! I read your comments that you posted on this page more than a few times. I would have replied sooner if my daughter would've let me
I would like to know more of anything you want to say,so I'll be hearing from you! One way or another!
I ended up sliding the keyboard in and out for that since I am able to use the onscreen keyboard to use the "/". I Slide out for faster typing for everything else.
[email protected] said:
I ended up sliding the keyboard in and out for that since I am able to use the onscreen keyboard to use the / Slide out for faster typing,on screen for"/"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that works, it's an ugly solution. Don't worry, it's what I do too.
I remember reading a while ago here...someone swung by and asked if there had been any problems with the cable that carries the information from the keyboard half of the phone to the screen half.
Sliding in and out wears that cable out over time, and while it's way too early to see any issues arising from that cable wearing out yet because of how new the phone is, it's something to keep in mind.
It's a moving part, a piece of metal that bends (the wiring) when it's slid up and down. Even though it's designed to do it, from everything i've ever learned about physics and metal fatigue I know it'll wear out one day if the phone lasts that long.
I don't mind using it, it was made to take some amount of sliding, but as a developer using the phone in ways it wasn't exactly intended for, you have to be aware of the ways you create additional stresses on the device.
Do you think a normal user slides the phone out as much in a whole weeks worth of playing with it the amount of time you do in a single day working with terminal emulator?
Everything (except the stock battery) about this phone is pretty top of the line, I highly doubt that HTC cheaped out on a part they knew would wear out eventually on it's own, so don't think you're gonna break your cable tomorrow because you slid the keyboard out.
Just be aware of the above-normal stresses you can put on your device over the long term once you become more then a consumer-grade user.
So, yes, it's a solution, but not very elegant in it's execution.
My thoughts are the same. "Ugly solution".
From what I have observed, the text savvy user loves sliding that keyboard in and out. I have no doubt they realize this and built it to last... Let's hope they did not skimp in that area of their development
No one has said it. Try swype. I've used it a few times to get some unresponsive or jumbled as in getting ~ instead / to work or a pesky capital to stay lower case as in I and i .
Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide using xda premium
Ok, I mentioned in annother thread that I am willing to learn developing so our phone dosent die. I've rrun into a bit of a hiccup in that I'm compeletly new to programming and I've either gotten no response or a negative one when I went looking for pointers. Fear not I am still not giving up it is just going to take longer than expected. So in interest of keeping development moving forward I'm putting out a call to arms. Are there any other aspiring developers out there? If so post in this thread what you are good at and what you can do. Perhaps we can collaborate and push out a rom in the near future. Personally I am an expert at graphic manipulation and can handle all of the ui, still working on the coding part. For everyone else, post things you would like to see and perhaps one of us could pick it up and run with it. Let's work together and make this work better than they ever thought it could!
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Sigh..
We can't work together if you don't have experience with coding.
If you really want to get a spark, you need to get a promising build onto github. And, you will need experience and attention to detail. Nobody wants to help if you don't comment your code, keep good changelogs, and maintain a good readme.
So far, I don't see it out there.
Furthermore, I can't afford to spend hours working on something that won't pay my mortgage. Most of us can't.
If I hit the lottery, maybe I'm your guy. In the meantime, we can't work together without a leader.
And, let's hope the next developer isn't lacing every file with a bunch of jibber jabber about "don't kang my sh*t, bro." Because, a collaborative effort would require plenty of sharing.
Just my two cents.
I would love to see a new Sense rom. but this place seems dead. Coming from the G1 I was surprised to see barely any roms. Even though the G1 is a ancent phone, it had quite a bit of rom and there's more activity over there than there is activity over here.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda premium
orange808 said:
Sigh..
We can't work together if you don't have experience with coding.
If you really want to get a spark, you need to get a promising build onto github. And, you will need experience and attention to detail. Nobody wants to help if you don't comment your code, keep good changelogs, and maintain a good readme.
So far, I don't see it out there.
Furthermore, I can't afford to spend hours working on something that won't pay my mortgage. Most of us can't.
If I hit the lottery, maybe I'm your guy. In the meantime, we can't work together without a leader.
And, let's hope the next developer isn't lacing every file with a bunch of jibber jabber about "don't kang my sh*t, bro." Because, a collaborative effort would require plenty of sharing.
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your honesty. But you misunderstand my intentions. I am not looking for someone to hold my hand and walk me through how to do everything. I, at most, am looking for info on how to start. I know I need expirence in coding before I can push out a rom, and that it will take a while to get that. That's why I started this thread. So, instead of waiting for me to finish the learning process we can get any other aspiring developers together to start something new in the meantime. I know there are others out there and if we all start posting what we can do and what we would like to see then maybe something may come from it. Thank you for point me to github, I'm sure I can learn some more from there. I understand about responsibilities getting in the way of hobbies, I have kids and a mortgage too, I'm just looking to get all the new developers together so that we can share and work together. I have a friend that writes code for websites for a living and I'm trying to get him on board to take this up as a hobby. Here's hoping.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
NightmyreWreckage said:
There are only three devs left for the Sidekick.
HewettBR, me (JiN1337), and nxd (kernel developer)
Reactive was a guy who tried to get everyone banned for using open source work, and thus in turn got banned himself.
I would be welcomed to help teach you a bit. I wish I had a learning curve when I was just beginning how to cook ROMS.
1. Download a ROM, unzip it, browse around files, and open files. Play with things.
2. When in doubt, Google it. It's likely someone else had the same problem before you and is a basis on how I fix 80% of ROM problems.
3. Always, always make a NANDROID. A foolish mistake is to flash your own ROM and not have a backup to go to, and than you have to start all over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I have a stack of books on android as tall as my hip lol. I feel like I'm in college all over again. Any help would be appreciated at this point. I'm on information overload.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Starting a new thread here.
YES I A NEWBIE!!!
(when it comes to Android at least).
That said. Nobody has to point it out. I know where I stand and I don't know much about Android. I know quite much about Unix/Linux so that's
a start. I know some electronics. I own a Note 3 that I think is mostly the same and want to try to take it parts from there.
It's not about stealing, "kanging", code. Please see it as a journey of fun. Of learning. Making something!
Newbie or not. I think we could be a fun bunch. Since we all want to learn!
I see more want the same. So why don't we pool? Why not make a "Hello I9506!"-Rom?
It's something I want to learn. Today I don't know something. Tomorrow I will. But just the satisfaction of doing something is worth it.
So if someone is interested. Message me. Hell. All the devs where newbies once.
Some are very helpful and some are jerks. We have the whole spectrum here and met both sides. But I don't care if a "elite-dev" snorts at me.
I want to produce something. From there on? Who knows?
A quick question:
Do we have some bloatware-list we can use or it the same? Still would need it thank you
I got some strange behavior of it yesterday (yes, I rooted it and tripped Knox, knowingly). It says it doesn't have space.
Folderspace says otherwise but saw that the /system was 89% and that feels just like it needs a real good cleanup.
I need to do the same with my Note 3. There I think there are scripts, but not for this. Is it the same TouchWiz as on the '05?
I contacted the "head developer" (I think, the one that made the first post) from FoxHound Rom since they
1) Makes a really nice rom
2) Have a release it on Note 3
So I asked for some help, hints. I'm sure he answers when he sees it.
What I like is the AOSP-feel of it. I'm like all the time running, between them. Flash, flash, flash. Ok dual boot now, but not the same!
Was same on my HTC until Venom released Viper for One X. The rom of roms! Venom Team. They are damn skilled.
So you find your "fav-rom". Me I like Foxhound just because it connects the two worlds. It's aiming for the best of the both worlds. Innovative.
Granted TouchWiz as a base is stable. They have a whole stab of people working on it.
It's fun to play around with both Probam or Pac-man (as it's built on) but it has drawbacks.
I can't use my Flipcase, and on the Note the pen and then we have some bugs on it. As all the rest.
Nothing that I can't complain about, since then I should take my butt and fix them or report them at least.
Please. Report. Never complain of bugs, because they happen. It's their hobby project ffs!
I really hate people that start to "demand" or are very unfriendly in their bug reporting.
It goes the other way around as well. Sauerkraut-devs with snotty answers.
Having worked with several closed and open source projects bug-reports are good, ideas for change. You can voice.
Sometimes strongly, about a new direction you don't like but you can NEVER demand, complain. Want something that badly? Ok. Pay me.
Over the years I've been on the net (like since 1991) I've seen this circle over and over.
The circle of Open source development
1) Enormous enthusiasm. The start! The first little halting buggy rom. So proud. Full of energy.
2) Taking in own and others ideas and develop, develop, develop - this is the happy times
3) The bugs start to be complicated as the code complicates so they are not that "fun" as to implement new stuff - and here starts the spiral
4) Here it's a combo that can go two ways or together
a) Constant nagging, demanding users without positive feed back makes them think that the users are just ungrateful. Because they are.
The coding is done on spare time. You can't "demand" someone from an Open source project. You can ask, propose.
In some you can expect it holds high standards and you can sometimes question if the decision in some part is wise and made a good and sound argument.
Give an alternative. But never demand and the final decision is up to the project.
b) The coders starts to seem themselves as the best on the earth and starts to see the users as something unavoidable.
This is a big error because then they should stop releasing version and just have their own. So they stop listen to ideas, and feel that the users
are ungrateful ****heads that should just follow the path and be happy that they get some app at all.
That is the negative spiral.
The frustration and the worst scenario, a rouge programmer, that go it's own way in the project. That makes a schism. Quarrels
Either the code is then forked (parted) or the whole structure starts to fall apart in who is the leader, owner, and never-ending discussions
because everybody knows BEST. Here the users are totally ignored since the internal conflicts takes over the whole project.
5) The coders gets tired of all this. Have bugs they don't care to fix and if someone files a report or do a suggestion they get a "Do it yourself" back.
6) Abandoned code or a restructure, a new way of working and uniting, some people leave, some new joins.
Healing and a fresh start or the project dies, often with the last version full of bugs that people still use because it's still what they want.
If there is luck, an new bunch of coders take that code and start from 1
I've seen this so many times and it's always the same.
In commercial projects you try to identify when the coder comes to this frustration point, because then it's time to move him/her to something else.
Because a disgruntled and unhappy person is never good, in anything. So it goes both ways.
So how to avoid it?
Basics. Planning. Setting goals. Having a real bugtracking system. Making clear that suggestions are suggestions and have a civil tone from both ways.
And then talk, yell, have big arguments inside the group, but make a real case for it. Like having your own space, where you give proposals.
But in the end. ALWAYS RESPECT.
A round table is not a bad thing, but there has to be respect and it has to be someone that has the final word that you have enough respect
for and trust that he/she decide what he/she think is the best and accept it. Else it's a chicken-yard. Never ending back and forth.
If you can't live with it because YOUR proposal was not granted either leave in a good way or make a fork. Or be a good player and not a crybaby.
A proposal should be in the form of What, Why, Time, Benefit (and if you are mature enough - potential problems and implications).
And then have a discussion about it. Advocate your case. Have a chat in the group.
There is nothing to say that a program can't have two different versions. Sometimes an experimental branch just to test things.
Time can tell which is the best. Be humble and respectful. Have heated discussions, as I have in a current project, challenge something.
That way, you see if it holds. It's the basis of research as way.
Postulate something. Try to prove it. Find someone to disprove it. Have an argument. See if it holds else start over. Boring? Yepp.
Does it give results? Oh yes. This is how mature people work.
Especially when it comes to medicine (that is my field now). Proving something is not easy. And think of those who sit for 20 years with a problem,
try 200 ways that fails, but don't give up. Persistence towards a goal. I met a professor. She has been working with HIV for something like 20 years.
She told me how many times they thought they where close. How it looked so nice. How it looked "THIS IS THE KEY" to see that it held for that part of the virus,
but not for the other 18 mutations and that it doesn't do any real benefits compared to the disadvantages. Finding a "hook" as they thought a few years back.
That was the most promising. Because a specific "hook" in something means that you can do something that grabs it. But it failed.
Or the people working on Malaria that kills so many. It's a complicated parasite and we have been so close, so close, but not yet.
The really big big thing. Documentation. I know, this is sooo damn boring, but to write out what you are doing in this block of code
(if obvious, just one line), If more complicated, explain.
Don't over complicate.
Don't insert numbers that you forget lie *1024 or +2, use a label for that. Document!
Try to write as general code as possible. KISS! (Keep it simple, stupid).
There is this case that we always get. It's about a coder in a project. He has this subroutine. He has been writing it to "perfection". Rewriting it.
Over and over. The machine went for years. Then it called that function and it crashed. Oh the irony,
In Sweden we call code that is in total disarray for spaghetti-code, because YOU know it, can navigate, but for someone new, it's hard or impossible.
Modularize as much as possible! Can't stress this enough.
That way, even if it take a bit extra time you have "boxes" that are taking in stuff and spitting out stuff.
Example.
We need a database to store things. We chose X. We work with X and then the X is not ideal, we need to make compromises in the code.
Mend it to work with X. But we come to a point where we want and need Y. But since the code is so intertwinned with X it's a hell to change it to Y.
Making an "interface", where you define clearly, the function of the database simplified (creations etc), boils down to this:
Search for something, read that something, write (change/add/delete) that something. That is it.
So yes, you write a few more lines, but today, we don't need to count how many clock-cycles the penalty it get (as I did way back).
We have damn fast things. When Java came it was like syrup. So zzzlooooowww. People just scratched their heads.
The only thing was that it worked over platforms. Today we have computers that can run it just fine. Fluid. Our phones for instance.
Same with C++. And yes, you can still make it zzzzloooow. So it's good to have some books (I have ebooks) on functions.
Don't reinvent stuff.
A sort function is mathematical. It will not change. When I started my masters we had this "little" book called "Introductions to algorithms".
It's like 3000 pages! Written in "pseudo code" 20 years ago but still holds. I can teach why we should not use this and why we should use that.
But I have not coded since 1997 or so and so much has changed!
But an Android is a Linux in the bottom. I've worked as a Unix specialist for many years before I changed path. So I know my way around there.
I DO need to update myself. I'm honest. I can spend time in clusters. Sometimes I have personal matters that hinders me. Like most people.
But first and foremost. It has to be FUN. This is our spare time. We do this for free. It SHOULD be fun.
Writing not fun is something you get paid for. Get a specification. Do this and that.
We still need that and it can be an obstacle but it still should be a goal to want to do this.
Persistence. Ask for help. Get a no? Ask another. We all have to start from square one. That is the beauty of this in a way.
So I'm asking if someone wants to make a group and do a ROM? I want to try. We seem to be an enthusiastic bunch here right now. Let's pool!
Let's make our "Hello Worlld! I9506 rom!
So if anybody else, newbie or not, feel it would be fun, message me. Cause I will try anyway and I would love some company.
I've had "some" project leading experience, and I still sit as a bit "advisor/pain in the but".
I don't code but most probably need to start again. But I do voice advice/concern from time to time. I try to propose some solution based on experience.
Call it "meta-coding", but it can be just as important to know how to move code fast then to be able to write the lines.
"Paradigms" don't change. If you look at a language, Java, C etc. You can boil it don't to rules. And the rules are basically the same.
The syntax, how you write it, is different. Some special solutions that is unique for just one language is there.
It's a pain to work with strings of text in C but easy peasy in Perl for instance.
And if we find someone that can give us hints help. That would be kind of them. We can ask. The worst response we can get is a "no", right?
As you see I'm known to write long. "Walls of text" is something I first got a bit mad at, now I find it funny. Sure, I "chat" in a written form.
But I'm full of ideas and enthusiasm here.
I have no plans to enforce me as some "boss". We are a team. Later on, someone will lead. We are a bunch of enthusiasts.
Right now. Baby steps. At least this is how I look at things. You might look at it otherwise.
Nothing stops us from exchanging ideas, even if we don't work on the same thing? I think that is the spirit. Helping each other.
This is not an competition. I don't care if 5 people uses the rom or not. It's not about that. The next one will be cooler. But competition?
Isn't that a bit childish? People have different tastes. I like the AOSP. If my flipcase etc worked I would move from TouchWiz since I even don't use it.
My subproject that takes precedence
KNOX. I will not give up on Knox. That is my main goal right now.
It affects me personally. If we don't stop it. Stop wasting time how to circumvent the bootloader. That is irrelevant.
If not stopped NOW. We will have an S5 with a chipped version of it. Then it's too late.
I see, in some despair, people whining in the threads, but no action. Why don't 20 people start to reg at user-forums and start to spread this?
I have MY theory. You can have that. I think it's for spying. Because I can't any other reason. My employee would give me a phone.
It has no place in our phones. But whining in a thread in a special forum like XDA, where there are people who are wizards when it comes to
developing and people that want to custom their hardware doesn't do it.
We need to spread it to the forums where the "normal" users sit. That probably never noticed it's even there. The ones that ask how to change
the different levels of volume, for calls and system. The user-base. Make them understand in simple terms. Telling them that this place, where the
best people frequent, doesn't really know what it does, because Knox is more then a bootloader that you want to circumvent not to trip that "flag".
That is the only place where we can reach the masses. Make people think. NSA. Snowden. Reading my mails? Recoring my calls?
I don't know. Do you? But it's possible. Who am I to know if my provider feeds my government with data. We already feed them with positiondata.
Make people aware. Make this crowd DO SOMETHING...
[/I]
When you turn on Skype it tries to make a tunnel through in a very sneaky way to "somewhere". I see it each time I turn it on since I tap my ethernet.
My webcam is on a switch. When I Skype I turn it on. Else it's off. And aimed at the wall, if I would happen to forget to turn it off.
So they can make happy pictures. So did Hitler. I just don't buy their bull**** of security for individuals that they added a few days ago.
if I don't want to use a firewall and a viruskiller on my PC. That is my choice. If I look at the downloaded movie Intel won't blow up my CPU.
But here, if this e-fuse is true. That is a deliberate active action. Then they are destroying my property. That is not acceptable.
But to make the "whiners" do something. Damn. That takes energy.
Ok, I stop here. If someone IS interested in experimenting together, message me. I think it can be a fun journey
All the best,
Absolon (yes I got my real nick back!)
:good: Nice explanaition of your opinion and you plan!!!
Never Seen such one!!
.........Few things about me...
1. I AM A NEWBIE TOO IN ANDROID AND LINUX!!
2. I want learn more about LINUX and ANDROID
3. Everything that i know about LINUX and ANDROID i learned here from Instructions of some people( cant remember all nicks - but BIG THANKS to THEM!!! ) that are posted on XDA Forums or Googled it!! And that is not much since i can not even compile a CWM from CM source - after 2 weeks of investigation and always getting error - - i understand its not easy to do that with my less experiance!!!
4. I have a wife and 2 kids around me - so thats top priority 1 for me!
5. I do things in Android when i got time for that - thats mostly on weekends in the evening or night when wife and kids are in bed!!
6. My english is not the best!!
7. Yes of course i am interested in experimenting and learning with other interested people!!!!
8. If you can live with that 7 points before this point - you can call me a member of the ROM "Hello I9506!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers
absolon said:
Starting a new thread here.
YES I A NEWBIE!!!
(when it comes to Android at least).
.....
.....
......
.......
Ok, I stop here. If someone IS interested in experimenting together, message me. I think it can be a fun journey
All the best,
Absolon (yes I got my real nick back!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xenix96 said:
:good: Nice explanaition of your opinion and you plan!!!
Never Seen such one!!
.........Few things about me...
1. I AM A NEWBIE TOO IN ANDROID AND LINUX!!
2. I want learn more about LINUX and ANDROID
3. Everything that i know about LINUX and ANDROID i learned here from Instructions of some people( cant remember all nicks - but BIG THANKS to THEM!!! ) that are posted on XDA Forums or Googled it!! And that is not much since i can not even compile a CWM from CM source - after 2 weeks of investigation and always getting error - - i understand its not easy to do that with my less experiance!!!
4. I have a wife and 2 kids around me - so thats top priority 1 for me!
5. I do things in Android when i got time for that - thats mostly on weekends in the evening or night when wife and kids are in bed!!
6. My english is not the best!!
7. Yes of course i am interested in experimenting and learning with other interested people!!!!
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DEAL!
ALL programming books starts with how to write a "Hello World!" program. That's why I thought of the name
So "Hello I9506"?
/Absie
Looks interesting, i have only build a buggy CM rom for S3 but never released it, can i join ya .
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
absolon said:
DEAL!
ALL programming books starts with how to write a "Hello World!" program. That's why I thought of the name
So "Hello I9506"?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes "Hello I9506" sounds nice and the Rom Name got also a background by this way why we call it so.
cheers
Sent from my GT-I9506 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hey man, i agree with your point. I'd like to help even if I own a I9505. That shouldn't be a problem though! Count me in as a developer! :good:
My I9506 is ready for testing!
A lot of being a good developer is mindset and enthusiasm. I'm sure you'll do great!
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda app-developers app
I hope the ROM also includes support for the E330S variant....
GO young Dev's !!
@Absie
Hi, my mate.
If u need help/some knowledge in decompiling/compiling of apks and framework jar files and building yr own ROM, PM me.
I have done my ROM projects in the S2 forums and some mods in I9505.
But I'm not a C++/java programmer freak.
I didn't have time to study in this field .
Just a tiny bit of xmls, themings and smali codes here and there that I can help u.
I'm sure u can make a good ROM in this forum.
U need more "real" devs to help u in making yr own ROM.
Cheers.
You are not alone on this. if you can do a clean system dump of 4.3 for me when it released I will take on some projects for you folks
Absolon said:
She told me how many times they thought they where close. How it looked so nice. How it looked "THIS IS THE KEY" to see that it held for that part of the virus,
but not for the other 18 mutations and that it doesn't do any real benefits compared to the disadvantages. Finding a "hook" as they thought a few years back.
That was the most promising. Because a specific "hook" in something means that you can do something that grabs it. But it failed.
Or the people working on Malaria that kills so many. It's a complicated parasite and we have been so close, so close, but not yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, that about sums up the majority of time I spend troubleshooting, with the answer often being something very simple that I overlooked in the beginning.
As for de-bloating, once you get familiar with what's what it can usually be done pretty quickly.
The first thing to always do is make nandroid of everything and save it your desktop just in case. Having a zip with the stock ROM handy can also save you a lot of time if you need to replace just one app.
There are four main places you have to remember when doing this:
/system/app - primary location for system apps
/data/data - where the app's data is stored
/data/app - where upgraded copies of the apps are saved
and the dalvik-cache (usually /data/dalvik-cache or /cache/dalvik-cache)
If you're using an odexed ROM you'll want to get both the .apk and .odex files at the same time. Many apps will also have two or three widget providers, etc., be sure to get all that stuff. Just keep a list of everything you've removed.
Facebook is usually the first thing I nix as it often uses ~50MB, is redundant when it's going to install itself from the market anyway, and always has way to much access to your personal information as a system app. Twitter, flickr and any other apps like that, which you don't need or want as a system app, can all go too. Some devices also ship with keyboards for every language ever created, you can get rid of any that don't apply to you.
Once you've cleaned out the easy ones take your list and open up Settings -> Apps. The apks may be gone from /system, but all their data and updates are still taking up space. So to finish removing them look under the "All" tab and when you see one hit wipe cache, wipe data & uninstall.
Now just return to the recovery so you can wipe your dalvik-cache and create another nandroid. If you want to clean even more this will give you a good checkpoint to revert back to if needed.
xHausx said:
Yup, that about sums up the majority of time I spend troubleshooting, with the answer often being something very simple that I overlooked in the beginning.
As for de-bloating, once you get familiar with what's what it can usually be done pretty quickly.
The first thing to always do is make nandroid of everything and save it your desktop just in case. Having a zip with the stock ROM handy can also save you a lot of time if you need to replace just one app.
There are four main places you have to remember when doing this:
/system/app - primary location for system apps
/data/data - where the app's data is stored
/data/app - where upgraded copies of the apps are saved
and the dalvik-cache (usually /data/dalvik-cache or /cache/dalvik-cache)
If you're using an odexed ROM you'll want to get both the .apk and .odex files at the same time. Many apps will also have two or three widget providers, etc., be sure to get all that stuff. Just keep a list of everything you've removed.
Facebook is usually the first thing I nix as it often uses ~50MB, is redundant when it's going to install itself from the market anyway, and always has way to much access to your personal information as a system app. Twitter, flickr and any other apps like that, which you don't need or want as a system app, can all go too. Some devices also ship with keyboards for every language ever created, you can get rid of any that don't apply to you.
Once you've cleaned out the easy ones take your list and open up Settings -> Apps. The apks may be gone from /system, but all their data and updates are still taking up space. So to finish removing them look under the "All" tab and when you see one hit wipe cache, wipe data & uninstall.
Now just return to the recovery so you can wipe your dalvik-cache and create another nandroid. If you want to clean even more this will give you a good checkpoint to revert back to if needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
Right now, all we have is the original rom, that is "normal" so I gess it's "dexed". I have no clue how to make it odexed, since what I understood it makes
the whole rom smaller?
The thing that worries me is the bootloader, since we only have the one with Knox in it and I don't know how other bootloaders work or are compatible.
But that means that we are locked into SELinux, right? So until having a "Knox-free" bootloader we can't do **** when it comes to customizing roms?
Because we can't add our own kernel or is there some code that Samsung have, because I found out that Samsung had a code-repo (wow), but
not for this phone yet.
I tripped the Knox-flag when I rooted it. Found no other way really. And I don't know if this is Knox-related or something else. I noticed this on the i9505
as well. I have space but when I try to install things it says that it's out of space and can't install it. The "funny" thing is if I push the install from the webpage
of Play it installs just fine so it's seems to be something preventing it?
I don't recall if I had it before or after Knox since I tripped Knox unknowingly on my other phone before we even found out what it was.
So I need to clean it out. Yes, /system is 76% full with the original. Since all I have done so far is just rooted the phone.
If someone has an I9505, can you do
1) df -k
The partitions (not counting the sd.) on I9506 are:
The root partition (/)
/efs
/firmware-modem
/data
/persist
/system
I'm too tired to write out a good coomand, but best is to use "find" and with some -printf options and then start to hunt.
Then we can compare the phones. The special parameters for SELinux are the next step. But this is a start to see how
The SELinux special parameters part is also something that I want to see, but I want to start with this.
Btw. On my Note 3 I got an "update" of the SELinux rules. Anyone else? (Will ask in the Knox-tread as well).
That is not rooted but totally plain vanilla and I didn't even noticed that there was an update function but got "update 16".
See my post: From Knox-thread
I read and read this night, and to just condense it since I write too long anway and I'm tired. Since the bootloader
is loading an SELinux, that won't boot if it's not compared with an unique X.509 cert in every phone and see if the
loader checksums we really get an virtual environment. That is the "wrong" feel I've had I think. And I think that we need
to sit down and test some things to verify this theory. Get some programs that can do some deep probing of the hardware.
If I'm right, and they have made a VM out of the phone we should probably notice it somehow, because it's easy. I looked,
SEAndroid that NSA created is a VM with Xen.
That means that the SELinux can just run in the background with it's processes that it will never show to you and you think
you have a rooted and Knox-free phone when you never have it since the bootloader loags a SELinux and makes a sandbox.
If's perfect. Unique id on each phone. Your signature on the papers with the serial numbers which identify you as the owner.
So perfect that I could cry if I was an engineer at Samsung...
/Abs
Please make a custom ROM that works for the SHV-E330S as well
THank you very much!
sheesha_straw said:
Please make a custom ROM that works for the SHV-E330S as well
THank you very much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need to start with baby steps so a skeleton for the I9506 is the first prio.
SHV-E330S I head that before. What IS that? Can you give me details? Is that some version of the I9506?
If it is then you are most welcome to help out!
/Abs
Absolon said:
We need to start with baby steps so a skeleton for the I9506 is the first prio.
SHV-E330S I head that before. What IS that? Can you give me details? Is that some version of the I9506?
If it is then you are most welcome to help out!
/Abs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's the Korean SK Telecom version of the i9506
It has the same LTE-A support & Snapdragon 800 processor and everything
GSMarena description of the phone
Also known as Samsung Galaxy S4 with LTE+
Available as Samsung SHV-E330S Galaxy S4 LTE-A for SK Telecom.
Inventory
First,
I need to know if it's ok that I take the Project leader role here a bit? I have sat down and identified the things we need to even start and I have some pretty good idea.
But I can only be a Project leader if you let me. If I'm allowed to spread out the work. Else we can close this. I can't do this alone. It's too much work.
But I think that the work WE can do is the base that will benefit all rom-makes. Because this is the starting point that anyone that want to make a
rom has to start from.
The difference is that I want this to be here. In the open, and not at some closed webpage. I want all to benefit from what we do.
Either we do this openly or not at all.
And so you know. There will be a bit of work. I have my Unix knowledge and I run several Linux/BSD machines at home. I did a small calculation.
I have now been playing/then having it for getting bread on the table with Unix for 23 years.
I don't know everything. Far from. Even though I been working with it that long, the part I did as a consultant was within a certain part and I never learnt
other. Simply because I was hired for knowing just that part really well.
The problem with Unix (and why I use Unix is that everything is basically Unix, even though it called differently. It would be called Unix today if it didn't
happen to be a patent fight over the NAME. The one that held the patent of the name Unix wanted money for people to use it (it might have been SCO,
they tried to get money for anything they could. Really despise that company).
So instead of paying the companies invented their own names, Sun went for SunOS and then Solaris, Hp (HP-UX), IBM (AIX) etc.
So it's hard to say that Linux is not a Unix because it's not a Unix Unix (that doesn't exist anymore) but when I say Unix I mean the whole spectrum
of very very closely related OS to it, ok? So I will sometimes say Linux and can say Unix, but I mean basically the same.
The thing with Unix is that the learning curve is steep. You install it and have a black screen with a ">". It's a bit more easy now with Ubuntu (that I hate),
but it's better for you, that never worked with it to have something to "point and click". When it comes to the real work you will have to open up a
terminal anyway and TYPE command. See it a bit as a DOS-windows in your Windows.
There is two distinct flavors though. The one is BSD and the other is the Linux, bla bla. Those two are a fork that happened long ago and you tend
to feel like a newbie again, once you sit in from of a FreeBSD after being a homie on Linux because everything is different.
There is a standard basically on how to start up things. There is now a new thing that comes more and more that should be less conservative then
what has been the case the last 20 years but that is another thing. The Linux that Android is based on has a normal "init.d"-structure and that is
where the different scripts are that start up, in an order you decide, different parts of the system, or do what ever really. They are just scripts and
could write "Hello I9506!" on the screen if you would like that.
Did you all see the post I made about the i9506?
PLEASE ALL. I need to verify this so it's not some duckup from my part but I will do a odin today to be sure
Take a look at what I wrote: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48320189&postcount=1402
Anyone here that tripped Knox? Anyone got any strange things?
We need to know this before making any attempt at all.
I don't cry wolf here. This is true. No bulltitting. I KNOW I had this.
If you look my sig, you might think I know has build a Faraday's cage around me and have a folio-hat while looking through a magnifying glass at my
monitor at a Youtube-video showing taped in a tv that was recorded by a CC-camera from a TV in the 80-ies about the (pick one):
Moon landings
Kennedy
Roswell
9/11
Ilumatnii/NWO
And I wish I where. But the phone is erratic and I really think it's tampered. Did someone get a notice with rule-updates? I didn't get it to this one
but I got it to Note 3.
-------------------------------
So in case that you let me lead the project here in the start and be able to have work that I can "assign", or I rather want to list work and have volunteers for it.
Then I can say "Ok, test that then" etc. And we have a dialog that is open and never that someone feels forced over it, ok?
We need a BASE. Something to start from and we need to see what we have so this is the inventory part. What we have, where we start.
The first step
And I need someone that can do some deep probing for me of the hardware. We need to start comparing.
Can all do a *#1234# and post it?
I have:
AP: I9506XXUAMI3
CP: I9506XXUAMHD
CSC: I9506NEEAMI1
I noticed it only works on the original "Phone app".
This is what I think we need as a base to start with.
I9505
As close stock rom as possible. Now I saw that Hotfile was closed down (did a post about it) so I hope we get
Base
I9505 - Plain vanilla rom. As close we can get
I9506 - Depends here what you have. Here I would ask if someone has an unrooted and a rooted version.
Note 3 - I have an unrooted version. Anyone has a rooted? Knox tripped? I tried to root it with that Universal thing that doesn't trip know but it hangs.
This are the things we need to start with at least. Make nandroid-backups on them. When you have them I'll prepare a space for them on my g-drive
where you can upload them and then I can start to compare them.
Also, anyone with a Knox-tripped I9506. Please PM me. I got really strange behavior and I don't know if it's Knox or something else.
The ones with Note 3, did you get an "SELinux rules upgrade #16" a few days back? I didn't see that was an option to turn them off.
As I wrote in my other thread. My I9506 started to behave real strange. REALLY strange. There are a whole bunch of programs missing.
The are gone. I have 3 icons on them in launcher but they are just not there. So what gives?
Is this only me or is this something that we all get when we trip the Knox?
After I did a clean with the CleanMaster and removed the Knox apps, I can't get into settings, so I need to try a nandroid restore or in worst case
try to install a odin-version and reroot it. Or maybe play with it unrooted for a while.
This is serious things is this Knox-flag tripped something. I talked with my provider today about this.
So an inventory! What do we have for hardware to test on?
Things to investigate - Here I start list things that any of you can do. As I said. I can't do all and I have so much IRL that I shouldn't be here at all...
Hardware
We know it's closer to Note 3 then to 05. When I look at specs it seems like the same phone.
But I need a rooted Note3 to get the app that list ALL hardware, sensors etc, to compare it. An unrooted Note 3 will not get that access.
My theoryI is that a BL from Note 3 will probably work but one from 05 will not.
But that need to be verified. And I need to see that Odin can reflash if we do something that hangs the phone. This is the risk I will take.
What is on it?
Here I could start to compare. But I need backups of the phones!
If you happen to have any personal password for your wifi, I can give my word that I will overlook it.
Besides, what do I need it for? Not like I would come home to you and hack your Wifi
So here is a list of things:
There is no source released on their webpage about the i9506 yet.
We don't have any "pre-knox" BL for this one.
Can someone check the Note 3 forum if there is some pre-knox. Did a 4.2.2 even existed or was it a 4.3 from the start?
And then backups of the partitions for comparison.
That is the first steps to even start to move this.
/Paul
Absolon said:
First,
I need to know if it's ok that I take the Project leader role here a bit? I have sat down and identified the things we need to even start and I have some pretty good idea.
But I can only be a Project leader if you let me. If I'm allowed to spread out the work. Else we can close this. I can't do this alone. It's too much work.
But I think that the work WE can do is the base that will benefit all rom-makes. Because this is the starting point that anyone that want to make a
rom has to start from.
The difference is that I want this to be here. In the open, and not at some closed webpage. I want all to benefit from what we do.
Either we do this openly or not at all.
And so you know. There will be a bit of work. I have my Unix knowledge and I run several Linux/BSD machines at home. I did a small calculation.
I have now been playing/then having it for getting bread on the table with Unix for 23 years.
I don't know everything. Far from. Even though I been working with it that long, the part I did as a consultant was within a certain part and I never learnt
other. Simply because I was hired for knowing just that part really well.
The problem with Unix (and why I use Unix is that everything is basically Unix, even though it called differently. It would be called Unix today if it didn't
happen to be a patent fight over the NAME. The one that held the patent of the name Unix wanted money for people to use it (it might have been SCO,
they tried to get money for anything they could. Really despise that company).
So instead of paying the companies invented their own names, Sun went for SunOS and then Solaris, Hp (HP-UX), IBM (AIX) etc.
So it's hard to say that Linux is not a Unix because it's not a Unix Unix (that doesn't exist anymore) but when I say Unix I mean the whole spectrum
of very very closely related OS to it, ok? So I will sometimes say Linux and can say Unix, but I mean basically the same.
The thing with Unix is that the learning curve is steep. You install it and have a black screen with a ">". It's a bit more easy now with Ubuntu (that I hate),
but it's better for you, that never worked with it to have something to "point and click". When it comes to the real work you will have to open up a
terminal anyway and TYPE command. See it a bit as a DOS-windows in your Windows.
There is two distinct flavors though. The one is BSD and the other is the Linux, bla bla. Those two are a fork that happened long ago and you tend
to feel like a newbie again, once you sit in from of a FreeBSD after being a homie on Linux because everything is different.
There is a standard basically on how to start up things. There is now a new thing that comes more and more that should be less conservative then
what has been the case the last 20 years but that is another thing. The Linux that Android is based on has a normal "init.d"-structure and that is
where the different scripts are that start up, in an order you decide, different parts of the system, or do what ever really. They are just scripts and
could write "Hello I9506!" on the screen if you would like that.
Did you all see the post I made about the i9506?
PLEASE ALL. I need to verify this so it's not some duckup from my part but I will do a odin today to be sure
Take a look at what I wrote: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=48320189&postcount=1402
Anyone here that tripped Knox? Anyone got any strange things?
We need to know this before making any attempt at all.
I don't cry wolf here. This is true. No bulltitting. I KNOW I had this.
If you look my sig, you might think I know has build a Faraday's cage around me and have a folio-hat while looking through a magnifying glass at my
monitor at a Youtube-video showing taped in a tv that was recorded by a CC-camera from a TV in the 80-ies about the (pick one):
Moon landings
Kennedy
Roswell
9/11
Ilumatnii/NWO
And I wish I where. But the phone is erratic and I really think it's tampered. Did someone get a notice with rule-updates? I didn't get it to this one
but I got it to Note 3.
-------------------------------
So in case that you let me lead the project here in the start and be able to have work that I can "assign", or I rather want to list work and have volunteers for it.
Then I can say "Ok, test that then" etc. And we have a dialog that is open and never that someone feels forced over it, ok?
We need a BASE. Something to start from and we need to see what we have so this is the inventory part. What we have, where we start.
The first step
And I need someone that can do some deep probing for me of the hardware. We need to start comparing.
Can all do a *#1234# and post it?
I have:
AP: I9506XXUAMI3
CP: I9506XXUAMHD
CSC: I9506NEEAMI1
I noticed it only works on the original "Phone app".
This is what I think we need as a base to start with.
I9505
As close stock rom as possible. Now I saw that Hotfile was closed down (did a post about it) so I hope we get
Base
I9505 - Plain vanilla rom. As close we can get
I9506 - Depends here what you have. Here I would ask if someone has an unrooted and a rooted version.
Note 3 - I have an unrooted version. Anyone has a rooted? Knox tripped? I tried to root it with that Universal thing that doesn't trip know but it hangs.
This are the things we need to start with at least. Make nandroid-backups on them. When you have them I'll prepare a space for them on my g-drive
where you can upload them and then I can start to compare them.
Also, anyone with a Knox-tripped I9506. Please PM me. I got really strange behavior and I don't know if it's Knox or something else.
The ones with Note 3, did you get an "SELinux rules upgrade #16" a few days back? I didn't see that was an option to turn them off.
As I wrote in my other thread. My I9506 started to behave real strange. REALLY strange. There are a whole bunch of programs missing.
The are gone. I have 3 icons on them in launcher but they are just not there. So what gives?
Is this only me or is this something that we all get when we trip the Knox?
After I did a clean with the CleanMaster and removed the Knox apps, I can't get into settings, so I need to try a nandroid restore or in worst case
try to install a odin-version and reroot it. Or maybe play with it unrooted for a while.
This is serious things is this Knox-flag tripped something. I talked with my provider today about this.
So an inventory! What do we have for hardware to test on?
Things to investigate - Here I start list things that any of you can do. As I said. I can't do all and I have so much IRL that I shouldn't be here at all...
Hardware
We know it's closer to Note 3 then to 05. When I look at specs it seems like the same phone.
But I need a rooted Note3 to get the app that list ALL hardware, sensors etc, to compare it. An unrooted Note 3 will not get that access.
My theoryI is that a BL from Note 3 will probably work but one from 05 will not.
But that need to be verified. And I need to see that Odin can reflash if we do something that hangs the phone. This is the risk I will take.
What is on it?
Here I could start to compare. But I need backups of the phones!
If you happen to have any personal password for your wifi, I can give my word that I will overlook it.
Besides, what do I need it for? Not like I would come home to you and hack your Wifi
So here is a list of things:
There is no source released on their webpage about the i9506 yet.
We don't have any "pre-knox" BL for this one.
Can someone check the Note 3 forum if there is some pre-knox. Did a 4.2.2 even existed or was it a 4.3 from the start?
And then backups of the partitions for comparison.
That is the first steps to even start to move this.
/Paul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Main:
AP: I9506XXUAMHE
CP: I9506XXUAMHD
CSC: I9506VF6AMH4
It's GOOD!!!
Ap : E330sksuamg5
cp : E330sksuamg4
csc : E330ssktamg4