Related
Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.
whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source doesn't mean free.
I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe
ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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Click to collapse
AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.
Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.
Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Click to collapse
Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).
I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...
I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.
I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.
The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.
Realistically,If you're a member of this forums, we account for a small percentage of Verizon's Customer User Base. We are not the casual phone users, we purchased an Android phone for it's open platform, and the ability to make it truly OUR Phone. I'm sure I am one of many on here who is upset about the locked Bootloader.
Here is what I'm proposing or asking GSIII users to do. I'm asking that you please write a sincere review of the phone on VZW website. I bought a 16GB Model, and it has 94+ Review with a 4.5 stars.
Now, mind you, it's a good phone out of the box, but you cannot deny that Verizon has neutered it by locking down the bootloader. I don't need to explain to many of you how much that limit's the phone capability and life span. Locking down the bootloader puts all the control in Verizon's hands. We are forced to wait months for new OS updates, bug fixes, and limits our ability to do what we really want to do with our phones. With a locked bootloader, a phone's lifespan is truly limited by not allowing it to take advantage of new Android OS as it becomes available. Locked bootloaders forces us to buy a a whole new phone that has the newest Android OS, when you're current phone is most likely able to handle it. Consider this, with an unlocked bootloader and with the great developers this community has, Android 4.1.1 ROMs would already be available for our phones. With locked Bootloaders, we will most likely have to wait 6 months or more to get 4.1.1 on these phones, if ever, and by then, the new Android OS would most likely only be a few months after that.
I'm not asking you to lie or make up stories, just be honest and share with the people who are not in the "know" how much Verizon is limiting it's customers by locking the bootloader.
Apologies for the poorly written post, thought about this post while I was working last night, and I just woke up, so I'm sure there are some grammar mistakes
My .02 cents
I've submitted two reviews on the Verizon website giving my honest opinion of the device. They have denied posting both times due to what they say violates the guidelines. Admittedly, my first review was rather harsh. After the first denial, I went back and read the guidelines and posted a very toned down version. I didn't post anything that was specifically prohibited in the second review. They did not see it that way and denied posting the second version for the same given reason. Apparently, Verizon will not tolerate ANY criticism of their company by reviewers.
Here are their guidelines:
Verizon values your feedback!
When writing your review, please consider the following guidelines:
Focus on the product and your individual experience using it
Provide details about why you liked or disliked a product
All submitted reviews are subject to the terms set forth in our Terms of Use
We reserve the right not to post your review if it contains any of the following types of content or violates other guidelines:
Obscenities, discriminatory language, or other language not suitable for a public forum
Advertisements, “spam” content, or references to other products, offers, or websites
Email addresses, URLs, phone numbers, physical addresses or other forms of contact information
Critical or spiteful comments on other reviews posted on the page or their authors
In addition, if you wish to share feedback with us about product selection, pricing, ordering, delivery or other customer service issues, please do not submit this feedback through a product review. Instead, contact us directly.
Enjoy writing your review!
What is the text of your review?
KarlStyles said:
What is the text of your review?
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Click to collapse
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
They own the site so they're entitled to filter content as they see fit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
mike163 said:
I didn't keep my exact text, but this is pretty close to what I said in my edited review:
Samsung did a great job designing this device. Why isn't this device sold with an unlockable bootloader as the manufacturer intended? Power users should be able to use their own property as they see fit as long as it doesn't break any laws.
I'm disappointed that Verizon chose not to offer the 32gb version of this phone. Because of the way that Android manages memory, many apps can't be moved to the Micro SD card. For users that need a lot of apps, memory will quickly become an issue.
I'm not happy that the phone is sold loaded down with software that is designed to promote sales and marketing of other products and I'm not allowed to disable or uninstall it.
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Click to collapse
I don't disagree with anything you said, but it does fall out of their guidelines. It is more a complaint against Verizon than a review of the phone. Maybe the way to go about it is to rephrase it more like a product review. For example, instead of generalizing on limited apps to card, phrase it as your experience. Something like "unlike previous phones, the new android system didn't let me move as many apps to the external card. As a result, I find the 16 gb storage is filling up quickly." Then move to disappointed that Verizon doesn't have 32gb version.
Similarly you can mention that the device runs ok, and Samsung added a feature to turn off system apps in order to conserve battery and reduce clutter. But then move to however there is a lot of bloat that can't be turned off.
I'm not sure what to do with the rooting portion, maybe keep it as a final note rather than making that your main point. I would also add a starting statement of "I've used the phone for x days and here's my impression so far". That may be enough to qualify it to their standard.
Btw, you didn't mention the fact that Verizon disabled two of the main advertised features of the phone - download boost and finger print payments.
You must be maintain guidelines.. All time..
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
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Click to collapse
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
thewebsiteisdown said:
I'm debating going with you to be honest.
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Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
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Click to collapse
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
thewebsiteisdown said:
Look what I just read.
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...s-browsing-to-advertisers-20140426-zqzzq.html
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Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
jmill75 said:
Do you know that every other provider DOESN'T do this? Doubt it's just VZW.
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Click to collapse
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
thewebsiteisdown said:
Verizon has their phones locked down completely and T-mobile doesn't. There for I can rid the problem with T-mobile pretty easily, not so much with Verizon. That's my point what's yours?
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Click to collapse
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
jmill75 said:
LOL, yes you may be able to get rid of carrier IQ type programs running on your phone. Not sure what this has to do with TMOBILE seeing what websites you are visiting using there network and selling this to advertising companies etc....
Ex 2: Just because I run Chrome in incognito mode doesn't mean Time Warner doesn't monitor my traffic.
Back to you, whats your point, you said it like "OMG LOOK AT WHAT I JUST READ" "BAD VERIZON"
LOLOLOLOLOL
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Click to collapse
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Almost all mega-corps data mine like crazy. Fine. Discover that I like rooting on XDA, have a facebook account, play video games...I don't care.
What I do care about is being able to do what I want, when I want with my device. VZW doesn't seem to care about the customer at all anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly thank you for summing it up for me.
VZW, and ATT, are required by law to allow you to network unlock the device, not boot loader unlock. The carrier covers warranty claims on the device, therefore it is in their interest to minimize the amount of damage "power users" can do to their devices
in my opinion, this trend of carriers locking bootloaders is the direct result of unscrupulous "modders" sending in for warranty or insurance claims after bricking their devices.
finally, we are by far the minority of smartphone users. a very very small percentage of Samsung, or the carriers, customer base and we DO have other options. the Nexus line, HTC with their unlockable bootloaders, GPE, and Dev edition devices.
/rant sorry
Russ77 said:
great input, thanks.
call it whatever you want, companies are in business to make money. if they're giving up profit margin due to fraudulent warranty claims on modified devices, they're well within their rights to sell locked devices.
was anyone here really surprised that the s5 is locked? really?
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How much profit has been lost on this? $10k? $1 million? If you took the entire user base of XDA or any other tech forum and had all of them return broken phones, then you'd attention of a company like VZW. Otherwise, they don't care. They just want to pick a fight they can win easily and make the "modding" community look bad because 1% have not followed directions or are just plain dumb.
A) if you bring in a rooted device that is bricked, they won't even offer you a claim
B) How many people are dumb enough to spend hours on XDA and other sites following instructions and asking questions, only to just give up and go back to VZW/ATT with their bricked phone and say "Idk how this happened?"
Please. These companies aren't in business to make money, they are in business to advance an agenda for shareholders while raking in the money from consumers who have a rapidly disappearing range of options to consider. Cincinnati is a great recent example. Our local provider just got bought out by VZW and at the same time, laid off a decent chunk of staff to make way for the corporate shift. All the while, these same companies lie to the customer with their marketing fluff.
I am not an advocate for one carrier over another, as I have no vested interest in any one of them over another. However, I will say that T-Mo's "in your face" approach to their new marketing is quite polarizing to the rest of the status quo in the industry of "corporate bs doublespeak" where one day you have a contract for $99/mo unlimited everything, and the next, you are paying $130 with a data cap. (Which happens to be what happened to me).
If the PC industry was this way, we wouldn't have half the progress we have seen in the last 20 years. Instead, the PC industry (mac included) embraced unique user created content (hackers included) and actually employed some of those who were great at it to work for them. But, NO, not in the telecom industry. It is the most ridiculous double standard.
So yes, these companies can go shove it. I'm done here. I won't be getting an S5 or and HTC M8 at this point. I have analyzed the phones and neither one is getting the "ok" from me anyhow. I just think it is very interesting how much a company is willing to combat what the "android community," if you can even call it one, has become.
A bunch of polarizing, angry tech loving people who never agree on anything, myself included. Get me out of here. I'm done.
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
SOCOM-HERO said:
Me too. Another Cincinnatian here as well. Shame T-Mo coverage isn't that great here. Neither is Sprint...only good ones are VZW and ATT and C-Bell (now VZW! I think I am gonna puke).
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I'm from NKY and just switched from sprint to T-Mobile. I don't get LTE in NKY, and I haven't been to Cinci yet since the switch. That being said, my coverage has been pretty good and so long as I'm in anything resembling civilization I pretty much always get 4g (5-10Mbps). It's not all bad, and hopefully LTE is on the way, Unlimited data is nice, and I have JUMP, so being able to upgrade yearly is awesome as well.
1timer said:
I'm considering going back to T-Mobile over the S5 root issues. It gets worse and worse each year with them. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years and they took my unlimited away, bloated my phone with apps, raised rates and now they pretty much don't allow the truth to be told on their site. I've been due for an upgrade for a LONG time and I think I might take up t-mo's buy out your contract thing just to stick it to them.
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They didn't take away unlimited, they basically forced you to opt out of that option in order to pay for contract price phones when you upgrade. I've never had the unlimited, so it's nothing I really bothered to complain about. I did however, end up doubling my coverage for the same price one day 2 years ago when I was on the My Verizon app, and noticed they were offering it. Of course they didn't bother to advertise it anywhere else though.
I will never lose Verizon. I know it sucks how freaking crazy they are locking everything, but there are Devs out there who always find a way. I can not simply give up the best coverage just for root. As much as it might suck one day, not being able to actually use your phone due to **** service would be even worse.
---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------
k.electron said:
Make it easy on yourself. Don't buy Samsung-Verizon ****. I got an m8. Sharp looking phone, rooted and unlocked in days. Even if you rock stock, there is far less bloat. Sense isn't the steaming pile that touchwiz is. And they sell 32 GB for the same price as this unholy garbage.
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Samsung phones are superior to HTC. Not just my opinion, but basically backed up by facts. S5 has the best display on the market, hands down. Faster processor, better camera, better layout, better extras. The only thing the HTC has over the S5 is exterior speakers, but honestly, who even uses them that much? You're either listening to music on your headphones, or plugging the phone into better speakers anyways
Hi guys,
I've been a member of XDA for a while now. I'm not as active as I hoped to be when I joined but I live such a busy life it's impossible to stay on and continuously remain active.
Anyway, to my point and reason for starting this thread. There are certain individuals with the knowledge on this site (and others) whom are fully capable of flashing LTE capable devices. The ones that can be flashed anyway. I'm not talking about illegal flashing, donor phones or anything like that. I'm talking about simple, legal flashing to another wireless carrier such as taking a VZW Galaxy S3 and flashing it to Page+.
I've offered to pay one individual to show/teach me how it's done. I can flash 3G devices without issue. But asking someone to teach you, show you or otherwise provide you with tips on how to flash LTE phones is a lost cause. They use this ability to make money charging $35 a pop to flash phones. And that's fair I guess. If you can do something others cannot then you charge for it right?
But what gets me is that we are Android enthusiast's. An open-source mobile development project that went beyond the expectations of it's original dev's at Google I would imagine. Now, it's arguably the most popular mobile OS in the world. To me it's the most popular anyway, to h3ll with iOS.
Anyway, for us to be all about the open source scene and what not but to refuse to share knowledge about flashing LTE devices because of pure greed is beyond me. We live out lives based on free, open source software but when it comes to something such as flashing LTE devices there is no way anyone will help you learn how to do it or especially show you how to do it.
That's why I'm starting this thread. I want/need to learn how to flash LTE phones to Page Plus. That's it... I run a smartphone shop and often have client's come in wanting options or directly asking me if I can flash a phone to Page+ for them. Well sure! But only if it's a 3G device. :-/
The only other way is for me to use a certain individual who charges $35 to flash the phones remotely. If I try to double it up to $70 then my client's are turned off as there is a shop further away from mine who has a T-Mobile employee there who flashes phones for $35. So I want to be able to offer this service to my clients for the same. I cannot charge them $35, jump online and wait on the person who's name I will not mention to get to me when they can. I make no money, in fact, the time I would have to spend doing this would cost me money because in my field time truly is money.
I need an open source enthusiast whom isn't p0ser. One whom is willing to teach me how to flash LTE phones so that I can offer this service to my customer's. I do not care about the money, I simply want people to know that I can do anything for them at my shop. Telling them I cannot flash LTE phones is just bad for my business in general.
So, with all of that said I would really be impressed if a true enthusiast came out of the wood work to help me with this little problem. Me and the thousands of other individuals who need to know how to flash LTE devices. I mean wow, the things we use this site for... Yet no one will reveal the secrets of LTE flashing. It boggles my mind.
And yes, I've read thread after thread on forum after forum trying to decipher the methods used to flash these phones. I know it's simple, it's as simple as flashing a 3G device to Page+. That's what makes me even more discouraged about it all. It's so easy to do. That means it's easy to teach. I have all of the necessary software do flash nearly any device. But the exact steps to follow are what I am missing.
So, someone, anyone who cares about the open source movement and the ability we have to share knowledge please step forward and show not only me, but everyone here that open source development is not used for profit but for expanding our knowledge. It seems that some of us of gotten off of track over the years. Greed is one of the things that makes Apple a horrible company, it's also what makes people turn into individuals they never meant/hoped to be.
So c'mon guys, let's forget all of the bs and let's get back to our roots here. Who's willing to help me learn how to flash LTE devices? I can offer compensation if I must but again, that would go against the idea behind open source. I simply need to learn how to do this, period. And I'll do whatever I need to do in order to learn.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this and hopefully it will do some good.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
PAinguIN
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
Planterz said:
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
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Planterz,
Yes, I'm just trying to get LTE capable VZW (and certain Sprint phones as rare as they are) to work on P+. I know 3G speeds are possible but as you pointed out 4G LTE is not. That's not really important. As long as SMS, MMS, and mobile web is there then my client's will be happy.
And no, I'm not an authorized Page+ provider. The shop I own started from something I did on the side for extra money. I'm an IT guy by trade but about 3 months ago I decided to resign from my day job, focus on phones and now I'm opening my own shop! It has really been amazing!
But anyway, I plan on becoming an authorized P+ provider because from what I read it's very easy to do so. From what i understand it is perfectly legal to flash devices that Page Plus supports (and some that they do not) to their network. It will, however, automatically cancel any contract that was previously associated with the phone. This will result in early termination fees and all of that jazz. Oh, and this is only if you flash it while it's active on an account. If it is not attached to a wireless carrier then there's nothing to worry about.
And, you are right, XDA is primarily devoted to the development of 3rd party, open source Android OS's. The hacking, well, the hacking comes in place when devices will not let you unlock their boot loader. Such as Samsung. You cannot unlock the bootloader on an S4 (not sure about the S5) yet... And Samsung does not help you with this. They do not encourage unlocking the boot loader.. HTC, however, encourages you to and provides you with the means to unlock your boot loader free of charge. This is one of the main reasons's I have used HTC phones for the last 4-5 years. Since the EVO was released and then the HTC One M7.
But still, what is done here on XDA is much more than simply hacking phones and development. There are lots of threads associated with flashing and some of them have very useful info if you're wanting to flash a 3G device. (Which is easy by the way). But, LTE devices... Unfortunately the story is not the same.
I was just hoping someone could point me in the right direction or be so kind as to show me how it's down or send me the process for flashing, say, a Galaxy S3 on VZW (which is an LTE device). It only takes about 5-10 minutes...
And, lol!!! You have the wrong idea about my shop. I started buying and selling smartphones a couple of years ago. I've worked in the IT field for over a decade and have many loyal clients on the side. Slowly, I began to learn how to repair iPhone's and Android devices. I found a guy who did repairs, a local university student, he and I partnered up. We split everythihng 50/50. Things went surprisingly well! He graduated in May and moved back home, reluctantly...
I continued to carry the torch... My shop is not going to be a Page Plus shop. We have places named "Talk Unlimited" around here that serve that purpose. But as I said, I just hate having to tell people it's going to cost them $75 for a $35 job or even have to send them to Talk Unlimited whom charges $75 as well.
So no, we offer a wide array of services for smartphones including buying/selling. In addition, we offer services in the IT field which cover the entire spectrum. From computer repair and virus removal to enterprise level networking and defense contracting.
I gave up a darn good job and have staked everything I have in this business. So it has to be the BEST! It must offer what other's are incapable of offering and do so much cheaper. Which we do... And in the grand scheme of things being able to flash LTE phones really doesn't matter. But it's only good business to be able to provide the service if needed by a client.
I should have been more clear on that when I started the thread. So once again, no, I am not opening up a shop providing only flashing services to Page Plus and their crappie phones. And they are crappy, just as you pointed out. LOL!
With all of that said, do you know anyone I can speak to or any thread I can check out? Vip3r is the one whom I've used in the past. He knows his stuff, but he will not teach me how to do it. Not even if I pay him. And I understand, he has his reasons. I do not hold it against him. But i need to be able to offer this service if the time comes to where another client needs a solution and flashing to P+ is the only one you know?
Thank you for posting. Perhaps your post will help get a conversation started or something with some answers. Lol!
Thanks again Planterz!
PAinguIN
It's only a matter of time...
As my title states, "It's only a matter of time.". Once I discover how to flash LTE devices I will post my findings here. For everyone to see, read and use. To me, this is the only fair way to do things. Keeping open knowledge from others and forcing them to spend hours and hours online (which I don't have) to find all of the little answers needed is simply not an option for me nor is it for most others.
It appears that I'm missing out on only one or two steps in the process. I guess I'm going to have to ruin a few of my LTE devices as I try to learn this on my own. The process is (I would say) 90% similar to flashing a VZW iPhone 4 to Page Plus. But with a couple of missing steps. I need these steps.
If/when I discover how to do this on my own I will post it in this thread for EVERYONE to see. No longer will people have to ask questions about LTE flashing. Because it will ALL be RIGHT HERE! Mark my word, as soon as I discover what I'm doing wrong and perfect the process then it will be posted here in absolute detail.
If anyone has any information to contribute to this thread I, personally, and many, many others would be more grateful than you could possibly imagine.
Thanks,
PAinguIN
I am now an authorized P+ dealer...
And as time goes by I will piece together the puzzle of flashing non-VZW phones to P+ with MMS/SMS and at least 3G.
If anyone has any insight or tips into this please share.
Thanks!
I mean come on seriously Verizon in my opinion already charges too much just for their data plans and then you pay for a $600 phone on top of it that you can't even mod, no flashing AOSP for you, no experimenting with the phone that you OWN! I switched to T-Mobile a few weeks ago just for this reason I found out TWRP came out for the S6 on T-Mobile and then I thought no way am I going to miss out on CM and other AOSP ROMS I love having the ability to change my kernel and ROM sure there is SafeStrap which I don't really know when that will come out for Verizon S6 but you can't install AOSP ROMS on it there is no REAL freedom until you have an unlocked bootloader.
I made this to see how many people think like me when it comes to Verizon locking bootloaders.
Do you think Verizon owns their phones and they have every right to lock down their phones?
Or do you think you are paying these crazy amounts of money for a phone you can't even customize?
If you want to comment saying why you chose your answer that would be great! You don't have to though.
Edit: worded wrong The thing that should replace yes is "I think having a locked bootloader is fine".
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
hopesrequiem said:
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
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I understand Verizon has the best service but I am saying wouldn't it be nice to have both an unlocked bootloader for easy root and custom recoverys AND the nice Verizon service. Thanks for the response
ethanscooter said:
I understand Verizon has the best service but I am saying wouldn't it be nice to have both an unlocked bootloader for easy root and custom recoverys AND the nice Verizon service. Thanks for the response
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Omg yeah that would be THE best lol. If only the nexus 6 wasn't so big
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
hopesrequiem said:
Omg yeah that would be THE best lol. If only the nexus 6 wasn't so big
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
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Then vote no lol that is what the poll is about no means having both unlocked bootloader and great service on the galaxy s6.
xD
Isn't your first option misleading thus skewing everyone to vote for the 2nd option? Wouldn't it be more fair to have the first option read
"Is it OK that Verizon makes the phone extra secure by locking the bootloader"
They do not own the phones unless you are leasing yours. I am also not seeing the point of this poll...to show how many here in a rooting hacking development site are unhappy because they can't do anything with the phone? I understand your frustration, I am just trying to see the point here.
Maybe you should ask if Verizon has the right to gain more commercial and military contracts by making the phone secure. Just playing devil's advocate here.
Isn't this poll akin to asking a group of kids "Who wants ice cream?" Just sayin'
KennyG123 said:
Isn't your first option misleading thus skewing everyone to vote for the 2nd option? Wouldn't it be more fair to have the first option read
"Is it OK that Verizon makes the phone extra secure by locking the bootloader"
They do not own the phones unless you are leasing yours. I am also not seeing the point of this poll...to show how many here in a rooting hacking development site are unhappy because they can't do anything with the phone? I understand your frustration, I am just trying to see the point here.
Maybe you should ask if Verizon has the right to gain more commercial and military contracts by making the phone secure. Just playing devil's advocate here.
Isn't this poll akin to asking a group of kids "Who wants ice cream?" Just sayin'
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Good post. I agree.
I didn't take the poll because I feel Verizon can do whatever they like since I knew all of it up front, yet the first choice also includes an untruth....that Verizon owns the phone.
I own my phone, and I think Verizon made their choice clear before I purchased it.
Buyer beware.
Also....if you think they are just getting rich from us....I suggest you buy Verizon stock and share in the wealth.
The poll has 2 selections which are both invalid.
Bottom line is, if you wish to connect your device to the Verizon network, your device should follow their standards. Don't see a problem with that. If standardizing and locking devices keeps the network superior, I support them.
Unlocked Bootloader Is A Major Disincentive To Change Devices
As many are saying, I will not change devices (currently, Verizon HTC M8), unless I can properly mod my new device with root and recovery, and the unlocked bootloader is the absolute prerequisite for this ability to produce the optimal features, performance, and aesthetics in any new device.
Verizon made a marketing choice between selling supportability and network costs (no root means all phones allegedly have the some OS and basic settings, network has been discussed) or the cost of hiring people for support that can do more than read a script and follow a flow chart, which is what would be needed if they allowed for rooting. Also, think of the variety of phones. If they sold one brand of phone, and maybe only 2 or 3 of that brands models, supportability would not be as much of an issue.
Do I like being locked out from under the hood of my phone? No, of course not. Why else would I be on this site??
Do I understand their reasoning? Yes! Good technicians are not cheap. The person you call for tech help probably starts at under $12 an hour, and *might* have an A+ certification.
I'd rather have good cell service at a relatively reasonable rate and a variety of smartphones to choose from than pay how ever much extra it would cost to hire actual technicians to troubleshoot the myriad of issues opening the bootlocker would cost. Even with the "If you brek in, you don;t get support" type wanings, they would still have to pay hundreds iof not thousands of manhours for all the schmucks that would go in, unlock their phones, throw on custom ROM, or just start deleting files, and still call Verizon Support to fix it.
Source of my opinion - I have worked tech support for years. No amount of warnings, labels, etc will prevent customers for demanding you fix their stupidity, even when they admit that is the problem.
hopesrequiem said:
I could either have an unlocked bootloader on a network with terrible service or a locked boot loader on a fantastic network. I choose the latter. Got lucky we got root but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I would have gotten the nexus 6 if I was still that into Roms. Root will keep me very happy.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 2
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Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
But I agree with OP on we should be allowed to unlock bootloader.
bkeaver said:
Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
But I agree with OP on we should be allowed to unlock bootloader.
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THANK YOU!!! It's like seriously we just want to use CWM or TWRP on OUR PHONES WE PAID FOR it is just ridiculous how they expect us to pay all this money for a phone that we own that we can't even modify!
Unfortunately all the b**ching and complaining isn't going to change that anytime soon I'm afraid
While I hate restrictions and censorship and over-protectiveness, I realize big red will only change when the market demands it. Unfortunately, we're too small a percentage of said market for the other players to even speak about bootloaders and root access, much less convince Verizon that they need to change. All Verizon cares about is the bottom line $$$, and apparently locking down everything is more profitable than attracting xda members to their network. As if they need the money, lol. I live in an area where there is only one choice, so I take what I can get.
I agree, the poll question is totally like asking a bunch of dairy-tolerant children if they want ice cream. I'd rather see something like "if you could pay more and waive any software support for a mobile device that has an unlocked bootloader, would you and how much more would you be willing to pay?" I suppose that question was sort of answered with the Google Edition devices (answer: $450 was too much for most) and sort of with the Nexus devices. I would pay at least $100 personally for an open bootloader, and probably waive the warranty completely. How could this not make Verizon money. Oh and my problem with the Nexus devices was the network exclusivity and then the Nexus 6 just being too big.
The real problem is there is no good developer program with Verizon or Samsung. If you buy a dev edition phone you are stuck with the OS that comes on it and Samsung's dev program is terrible. Verizon needs to create a good dev program with unlocked and not supported phones but give access to OTA updates. It's that simple...
MOS95B said:
Verizon made a marketing choice between selling supportability and network costs (no root means all phones allegedly have the some OS and basic settings, network has been discussed) or the cost of hiring people for support that can do more than read a script and follow a flow chart, which is what would be needed if they allowed for rooting. Also, think of the variety of phones. If they sold one brand of phone, and maybe only 2 or 3 of that brands models, supportability would not be as much of an issue.
Do I like being locked out from under the hood of my phone? No, of course not. Why else would I be on this site??
Do I understand their reasoning? Yes! Good technicians are not cheap. The person you call for tech help probably starts at under $12 an hour, and *might* have an A+ certification.
I'd rather have good cell service at a relatively reasonable rate and a variety of smartphones to choose from than pay how ever much extra it would cost to hire actual technicians to troubleshoot the myriad of issues opening the bootlocker would cost. Even with the "If you brek in, you don;t get support" type wanings, they would still have to pay hundreds iof not thousands of manhours for all the schmucks that would go in, unlock their phones, throw on custom ROM, or just start deleting files, and still call Verizon Support to fix it.
Source of my opinion - I have worked tech support for years. No amount of warnings, labels, etc will prevent customers for demanding you fix their stupidity, even when they admit that is the problem.
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Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
bkeaver said:
Best network is very subjective to the area/region your in the most. In southwestern Ohio it is defiantly NOT the best network.
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Click to collapse
Then why did you choose Verizon?
---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Squintz said:
Then why did you choose Verizon?
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To be honest I was all set to go back to att from tmobile but att pissed me off and I had never been on verizon so I went with them because of all the rave reviews about better network. Now we're kind of stuck for the time being.
This poll is stupid. Of course they have the right. They don't have to sell you the phone on their network. They're also not forcing you to stay, you could easily leave. Wonders of capitalism.
Disclaimer: Not saying I agree with it, but they certainly have the right.
KennyG123 said:
It has nothing to do with hiring technicians to fix rooted phones...that is such a small small percentage of actual sales and technical errors. It is purely to provide maximum security for Exchange services for commercial and military contracts. AT&T and Verizon Samsung phones were rated the most secure phones on the market. And boom in came the dollars and contracts.
Any technician can drop the phone on their jig and push go for an Odin reset and restore to factory stock.
You all are taking this personal and it is not..blocking root or blocking kernel flashing (AOSP) was a side effect, not the intention of making it secure.
There are a lot of things that you choose to spend a lot of money on but cannot do what you want with. Here is the analogy, you buy Verizon because of the network...you spend $200,000 on a house in a good neighborhood. You cannot park your boat in your own driveway..why? Because the Home Owners Association for that nice neighborhood says you can't. You made your choice when you purchased this device knowing it was locked down as that has been the history of Verizon and AT&T for the past few devices.
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Excellent analogy! In that same mindset though, Cox cable didn't paste a giant tramp stamp on my garage door because there the internet provider of my home. Just sayin ?