[Q] Is the Glass/Digitizer attached to the Display? - AT&T Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket SGH-I727

I just cracked my skyrocket screen and I am trying to decide on what my choices are. Does anybody know if just the glass or glass + digitizer can be replaced without having to replace the whole display?
Does anybody have a good guide for replacing the screen (I've found some videos and stuff but not really a full guide).
Thanks for your help!

I am in the same boat. From what I can gather, a heat gun can be used to loosen the adhesive between the glass and LCD. The problem is I can't find a single vendor or person offering a screen/digitizer ONLY. I found one person selling the glass alone and I dint think that will be enough. It seems to be all or nothing. Incidently, the glass is only twenty bucks. Where the hell do you come up with a digitizer then? My phone still works fine except in phone calls. Some cracks in the glass near the sensor area have it thinking its next to your head I think.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

BMP7777 said:
I am in the same boat. From what I can gather, a heat gun can be used to loosen the adhesive between the glass and LCD. The problem is I can't find a single vendor or person offering a screen/digitizer ONLY. I found one person selling the glass alone and I dint think that will be enough. It seems to be all or nothing. Incidently, the glass is only twenty bucks. Where the hell do you come up with a digitizer then? My phone still works fine except in phone calls. Some cracks in the glass near the sensor area have it thinking its next to your head I think.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought the glass off ebay, but finding someone with a heat gun and who knows what they're doing... Another story.
My digitizer works, can we get anyone to confirm that you cannot remove the digitizer from the old glass and install onto new glass? I don't want to pay $160 just for the glass screen!
And on a side note, it was the first time to drop my phone, and I swear my captivate could have handled twice the height of the drop.

clocke said:
I just bought the glass off ebay, but finding someone with a heat gun and who knows what they're doing... Another story.
My digitizer works, can we get anyone to confirm that you cannot remove the digitizer from the old glass and install onto new glass? I don't want to pay $160 just for the glass screen!
And on a side note, it was the first time to drop my phone, and I swear my captivate could have handled twice the height of the drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found a vendor in California with a white assembly. I.just buying it and doing the replacement myself. 170 is a lot but I can't find a digitizer anywhere and I'm afraid that without that the glass is pretty but useless. If I'm wrong , let me know. I would love to save the money
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

Coincidentally, I have a heat gun and the know how if you live in the Atlanta area
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

BMP7777 said:
Coincidentally, I have a heat gun and the know how if you live in the Atlanta area
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I live in Texas but I will send it to you if you really can - without a replacement digitizer. I will even donate. But only if you can really do it, I don't want my phone to be the guinea pig!

clocke said:
I just bought the glass off ebay, but finding someone with a heat gun and who knows what they're doing... Another story.
My digitizer works, can we get anyone to confirm that you cannot remove the digitizer from the old glass and install onto new glass? I don't want to pay $160 just for the glass screen!
And on a side note, it was the first time to drop my phone, and I swear my captivate could have handled twice the height of the drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you ever get a response to the glass and digitizer dilema? I am in same boat with samsung skyrocket I727.
Took it all apart and now don't know how to seperate glass from digitizer?

There's a post a few down from this with someone that replaced his screen, maybe he can help.
I also vaguely remember another post some time back about this.. with maybe even a video. I'll check later.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda app-developers app

Related

[Q] Dropped phone and it cracked the screen...how do I replace the screen digitizer?

There are replacements on Ebay but none come with instructions. Does anyone know how to take it apart and replace the screen?
Look it up on YouTube. I did it on my first EVO, and I must say, it was quite easy. It might be a little different for your device, but if you have even a little technical expertise, it shouldn't be a problem. WORD OF CAUTION, though. There is adhesive under the digitizer/top screen, so use a heat gun, or hair dryer, to loosen it first. It is like a box shape all the way around under the digitizer/top screen in a thin strip.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
I haven't found any teardowns online, but it shouldn't be too hard as long as you have patience and be extremely careful. It looks like once the battery cover is off, there are 4 or 5 screws that you'll need to remove. Once that panel is off you should be halfway there. Just be careful because you're now in the belly of the beast. It would also help to take pictures along the way in case you need to know what goes where when re-assembling the phone.
gorilla glass?
might be a stupid question... but what happened to the gorilla glass?.. i.e. how high did you drop it from, etc.
autigers131 said:
might be a stupid question... but what happened to the gorilla glass?.. i.e. how high did you drop it from, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything on this Earth can be shattered by different frequencies and impact. Gorilla Glass doesnt break if its from YOU pushing it in and stuff..Not from drops.
Try cnn.cn if they sell the part they'll have a guide.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
autigers131 said:
might be a stupid question... but what happened to the gorilla glass?.. i.e. how high did you drop it from, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gorilla glass is scratch resistant and shatterproof; however it's still glass. Same principal as "Water Resistant" phones or items, you can't submerse them, but you can get them wet.
autigers131 said:
might be a stupid question... but what happened to the gorilla glass?.. i.e. how high did you drop it from, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Slipped out of my hand while getting up off a chair, fell about 2 feet, landed flat on the glass side onto some tile. Heard a pop sound on impact. It shattered the bottom corner.
I've owned several HTC phones with gorilla glass and this is the first time something like this has happened. I think the fact it has a aluminum housing has something to do with it. Plastic housings can flex a little on impact. Aluminum doesn't flex as much and since glass can, it caused the screen to shatter since the energy had nowhere to go.
Definitely getting a Casemate or Otterbox (if they release it) once I get the digitizer replaced.
I've been looking all over for a tear down but no luck yet. I might just have to wing it and try doing it myself with one of the kits on Ebay. I really hate having to go in blind.
Can you not get it replaced on insurance? I feel for you buddy!
Cnn.cn does have them, probably more reliable than ebay. great opportunity to makes the first guide!
I would buy from cnn.cn here.
Unfortunately they do not have a video up yet but seen as they sell the part, and if you buy it from them, you may be able to request it from them. Worth a try.
i know it can break. its just supposed to be harder than normal. i just wanted to know if it was from a "normal" situation or something out of the ordinary.
will definitely get an otterbox as well. if they ever come out with one..
2 feet drop on tile is how i broke my iphone 3g :/
I know it's not the same as our phone but the steps should be close enough. Here's a teardown video that engadget re-posted today of the EVO 3D http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/01/htc-evo-3d-torn-down-three-dimensional-magic-revealed-video/
I know this thread might be dead but the cracking of the screen happened to me too. I was wondering if anyone knew of a guide or could give me some tips on how to replace the digitizer since I will be attempting to do it myself.
Can you post a pic. Of your broken phone? I would like to see what kind of damage a 2 foot fall made
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
I just posted a vid on how to do this. Go to youtube.com and search on HTC Sensation Screen Repair.
or type /watch?v=T5bWl73O9ss after youtube.com.
(my old account was disabled for some reason and now I can't paste URLs... hope someone else can make that linkable)

Cracked Screen

Has Anyone else cracked a screen on their infuse yet and replaced it? The only parts I can find are the whole assembly of the LCD, digitizer, etc and its like $200. When I had an iphone i replaced the screen/glass part for about $30.
I looked at buying a eBay phone with cracked screen, by the time you add on 180-200$ for the screen it wasn't worth while. Cheapest I found was ~180$
because of the way our phones are constructed, it makes the repair much more expensive. If I'm not mistaken, the iphone's glass and lcd aren't bonded together, and don't have the digitizer attached. The bonded screen and glass with digitizer is much more expensive. you can find the whole thing for about 130.
What I did when I cracked my screen was, I just put the phone with cracked screen up on ebay and got 117 for it. Then I just bought a used one off craigslist. They got for like 200-250 in my area. so its like a 100 dollar repair
that really sucks samsung made such a stupid design. I really like this phone and was enjoying it alot more than my iphone.
Are there any androids without such a bad design for the screen?
Gorilla Glass is Da Bomb
i found out on ebay have only glass to sell but should be make sure u r able to separate d lcd n glass!!!its cheap about $20 only...my lovely infuse broken glass also....now im waitin for d glass n replace it....good luck for me ^^
Please advise if the glass replacement will be successful.
I had the glass broken and replaced whole screen assembly (about $200).
It was very unpractical.
Break??? Gorilla glass??? Say it ain't so....mine has been thru hell, up against walls, dropped our car doors, ect...ect...not even a scratch....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
dman3285 said:
Break??? Gorilla glass??? Say it ain't so....mine has been thru hell, up against walls, dropped our car doors, ect...ect...not even a scratch....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You shouldn't have said it...I would be extra careful now!!
My Infuse has held up well also but if it's the same screen (gorilla glss) as an iPhone it is definitely possible to crack...my son has broken 2 iPhone screens from drops without case.
andrawer said:
You shouldn't have said it...I would be extra careful now!!
My Infuse has held up well also but if it's the same screen (gorilla glss) as an iPhone it is definitely possible to crack...my son has broken 2 iPhone screens from drops without case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gorilla glass is far different from the iphone screen ._.
youtube.com/watch?v=1WS5I0SpL6c
I'm not sure if they're a legit company :/
That's why I buy all my phones from Bestbuy and get the service plan for $10.59 a month. All that's covered and like every 6-7 months I go get another Infuse (refurbished) for free just because. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Gorilla glass can break. It really all depeneds on the angle of impact. I dropped my phone exactly face down on tile it didn't bounce just smacked the floor dead on. I was expecting the worse but it was fine.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
I broke mine, don't really know how but it was hardly noticeable. it still bothered me so I replaced it. well I shouldn't have cuz the replacement was defective. ugh. I don't recommend the repair but would be willing to do it for a small fee. the screen is bonded to a metal frame (magnesium maybe, its light even for aluminum but I didn't spark test it) and pretty much is difficult not to destroy in removal. hence all the parts that come with it. though I think now that I know what to expect I could do the repair without an issue. if you decide to do it your self pm me. ill let you know what you will run into.
Cracked the corner of my screen. This really sucks.. I paid only 150 for the phone, but will have to spend 180 to replace it. Hopefully the price will go down?
I dropped mine on gravel and it must have hit a rock just right, cracked it pretty good. Unlike my wife's iphone (which had the same thing happen but at a different location), the android touch screen still works just fine.
funyunfails said:
Has Anyone else cracked a screen on their infuse yet and replaced it? The only parts I can find are the whole assembly of the LCD, digitizer, etc and its like $200. When I had an iphone i replaced the screen/glass part for about $30.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just spoke with Samsung at 1-888-987-4357.
They will repair for $155.
Seems like the way to go if needing repair.

Cracked screen

So my daughter just cracked the screen on my skyrocket, anyone know a reputable place to buy a replacement LCD screen? Or is anyone looking to sell one just pm me.
Ebay. And keep your daughter away from it. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Man, screw eBay. I just looked and the lowest one was $650. You can get the whle new phone for $650 at Best Buy.
-Carlos
These guys might be able to do it, http://mobiletechvideos.mybigcommerce.com/
How did she break the Gorilla Glass ?!
the gorilla glass in the skyrocket is bad, you can find some videos about it in youtube
I ordered a new screen for $164 and replaced it myself. It's pretty easy to do
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA App
play1962 said:
I ordered a new screen for $164 and replaced it myself. It's pretty easy to do
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet! Glad you got it fixed. I'll take that over warranty costs any day. Where did you get the screen from?
Got it from gounlock.com
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA App
its not gorilla glass is how she broke it...No where on Samsungs site or Cornings site do they say the skyrocket has it, and in fact i have contacted both and have gotten this response via email from samsung
“Thank you for your inquiry.
The Samsung Skyrocket (SGH-I727) does not feature the Gorilla glass. However, we assure you that all the components of the phone passed the Samsung quality assurance test and have been tested to withstand multiple different conditions”
So, Im hearing some people post on forums that the Digitizer is glued to the Glass and is separable, meaning the repair will cost way less than paying for a whole new digitizer + LCD + Glass assembly.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I have a nasty spider web break on my phone but can not afford to pay $160 when I paid $150 for the phone! (I know thats the contract price)
I'm a broke college student!
raheelanwar89 said:
So, Im hearing some people post on forums that the Digitizer is glued to the Glass and is separable, meaning the repair will cost way less than paying for a whole new digitizer + LCD + Glass assembly.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I have a nasty spider web break on my phone but can not afford to pay $160 when I paid $150 for the phone! (I know thats the contract price)
I'm a broke college student!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can separate them and manage to reuse the circuitry, were talking less 1mm thick. I've replaced glass before, next time I'll probably send it to Sammy.
xiLLeNtz said:
How did she break the Gorilla Glass ?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is confirmed by Samsung there is no gorilla glass on the skyrocket!
Sky Ice Cream RC 7.3 Speed!!
I just dropped and broke the screen on my phone, how hard was it to replace the screen yourself?
r3dp0is0n2012 said:
Is confirmed by Samsung there is no gorilla glass on the skyrocket!
Sky Ice Cream RC 7.3 Speed!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been known for quite some time now
amlwaycooljr said:
I just dropped and broke the screen on my phone, how hard was it to replace the screen yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Replacing the glass is not too difficult if you know your way around computer hardware. What makes it a pain is how small all the connections and ribbon cable clasps are and ect.
Here's a link to a video tutorial on the Atrix to give you an idea of what you can expect. About an hour to replace.
amlwaycooljr said:
I just dropped and broke the screen on my phone, how hard was it to replace the screen yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got a used S2 skyrocket off ebay. Only the outer glass is cracked.
I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiyU-RQUU0
Has anyone tried such a method and only changed the glass? (outer glass is cheap on ebay). Thx
gcretro said:
I got a used S2 skyrocket off ebay. Only the outer glass is cracked.
I saw this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiyU-RQUU0
Has anyone tried such a method and only changed the glass? (outer glass is cheap on ebay). Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried and failed... That is a nice video, but my understanding is that the Galaxy S II and III are different for repairs. The III you can replace just the top glass, but with the II it's easiest to replace the whole LCD and digitizer + glass. HTCs on the other hand have the top glass and digitizer as one replaceable unit.
I had this idea I could get the LCD lifted up and then use fishing line like floss to separate the glass and digitizer. But I didn't get that far. I didn't have enough heat and trying to remove the LCD, it busted. The OLED is like a brittle film and the adhesive used is crazy, so that method was doomed. I think if I had a different approach things might have gone better.
Now I have a worthless disassembled phone waiting on the prices of the whole LCD to come back down to sane levels. They were like $121,$131,$155, last check they're $200 on eBay. Makes me want to cuss!
I saw a video on YouTube where the top glass was busted open, not just cracked. I think it was a plain Galaxy S II. They used playing cards to dig in between the glass and digitizer layers. Then you clean off the digitizer and tape your new clean glass down and it would be fixed. I think if you could further break the top glass to pry it up and be able to dig in between the glass and the digitizer, that's how I would try to replace just the glass.
Ok, I dug in my web history and found the video I remembered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=judy-izOmKk
So in the video they had their screen/digitizer/glass removed from their phone chassis. I wouldn't go that far fearing you'd break the LCD. You may not have to do more than removing the battery before you get started.
Another thing the Skyrocket top glass needs this double sided clear tape. I presume this is because the digitizer is separate from the top glass and needs to be connected right to the glass instead of just held on with the double sided tape on the edges alone. I imagine that that could work if you pressed extra hard on your touches, but I don't know. I found this tape from EtradeSupply.com - they have a Youtube video I watched over and over. But shipping to the states is $15, adding to the expense.
Hope this helps anybody.
me too
I did the same thing. I got the old glass seperated with a hair dryer, but messed up some of the amoled screen and the glass was never fully flush after the reglue.
Super Annoying. :/ ending up buying the new screen kit on ebay for like 120. :/
Repair Follow-up
Yeah, I was able to get a new housing and screen assembly for my Skyrocket and all is well now. My phone is like new.
I did find some newer repair videos that use the playing card trick for removing just the cracked glass.
Samsung nexus glass repair i9250 part 1 - YouTube
Samsung nexus glass repair i9250 part 2 - YouTube
Samsung Nexus glass replacement follow up - YouTube
The quick version is that he says stick the phone in the freezer for a couple of minutes, because that will weaken the digitizer glue/tape. Then use your card to dig the glue out, pushing it out of the edge of the glass in a slow, lengthy process. He had success this way on a similar phone. I read elsewhere that Goo Gone cleaner could be used to remove any adhesive residue from the digitizer.
One thing I would worry about with this process is air bubbles in the new digitizer tape, since this other video has an industrial vacuum pressure machine as part of the final assembly process of the screens.
LCD and Digitizer touch the production workshop/Enterprise Solutions - YouTube
Related is an issue of dust, since a spec of lint or dust will cause an air bubble, as I just discovered applying a screen protector onto my Skyrocket.
So this little "$15" repair can add up with the digitizer adhesive and buying the Goo Gone and rubber gloves (which I didn't even use) and all of the rest. Just going for the new display comparatively is easy.

[Q] Samsung Infuse Cracked Glass

I have a samsung infuse from AT&T and recently dropped my phone.
The glass is completely cracked; however, the touch screen is working like normal.
Is there a way to replace the cracked glass only?
If it is possible, does anyone have instructions or a guide on how to fix the cracked glass?
Or, would I just have to file a claim with AT&T Insurance?
Thank you!
Your most likely going to have to claim insurance on your phone from my research the glass is not replaceable !!!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
Kdog71588 said:
Your most likely going to have to claim insurance on your phone from my research the glass is not replaceable !!!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...e&ie=UTF-8&q=samsung+infuse+glass+replacement
Well damn guess you can but I guess it depends upon how brave you are to start ripping into your phone and if your comfortable with small electronics
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
Either of you go through with this yet? Would be curious to hear how it went...
I've looked around online, and everything I'm seeing says the digitizer, LCD, and outer glass are one fused together piece on the Infuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZI6d59ufSc
Even though eBay sellers have the Infuse outer glass for sale separately, it seems like pulling the glass off of the LCD/digitizer without destroying it is going to be extremely difficult. Even if you get the old glass off without damage, you still need to figure out how to attach the new glass to it.
Then what??????
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium powered by The Dark Knight ICS
Kdog71588 said:
Either of you go through with this yet? Would be curious to hear how it went...
I've looked around online, and everything I'm seeing says the digitizer, LCD, and outer glass are one fused together piece on the Infuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZI6d59ufSc
Even though eBay sellers have the Infuse outer glass for sale separately, it seems like pulling the glass off of the LCD/digitizer without destroying it is going to be extremely difficult. Even if you get the old glass off without damage, you still need to figure out how to attach the new glass to it.
Then what??????
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium powered by The Dark Knight ICS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.repairsuniverse.com/samsung-infuse-i997-take-apart-repair-guide.html
This must be the instructions to remove outer screen because I have seen a video to replace the digitizer and screen assembly and it just popped off after removing some ribbon cables. I am waiting for outer screen ,outer casing and battery cover to arrive from China. Cost $30 with shipping. Will look brand new on outside if it works. I'll let you guys know how I make out.
Edit....After removing top glass with razor blade as it is fused to LCD with glue I lost response to touch. Ordered new LCD and digitizer with bezel (plastic frame that screen is attached to and circuit board mounts on) . I am not sure if I could get it to work if I could glue or fuse new top glass back on. Scratched the heck out of it anyways. Live and learn, if anyone else had better luck I would like to know.
I had great luck with mine. I started by heating the outer glass with a blow dryer and used a card from a regular deck of playing cards starting from top to bottom of the screen to get it started. After i got it about half way i didn't even use the blow dryer anymore just allot of playing cards. You have to be extremely careful on the top right of the LCD not to damage the ribbon for the digitzer. I got a few minor scratches on the LCD from shards of old glass but you can only see them if the screen is off and you look really hard. It pretty much looks brand new now. I just used thin double sided tape on the outside edges of the new glass for now as i haven't found a permanent way to hold down the glass yet. I will probably leave it that way so next time it breaks i don't have to go through the long process of separating the glass from the LCD again. In my opinion it was well worth the $10 and the labor to replace just the outer glass rather than the $130-$150 for the replacement LCD/digitizer and outer glass.
Thanks for trying.
cbroadsword said:
I had great luck with mine. I started by heating the outer glass with a blow dryer and used a card from a regular deck of playing cards starting from top to bottom of the screen to get it started. After i got it about half way i didn't even use the blow dryer anymore just allot of playing cards. You have to be extremely careful on the top right of the LCD not to damage the ribbon for the digitzer. I got a few minor scratches on the LCD from shards of old glass but you can only see them if the screen is off and you look really hard. It pretty much looks brand new now. I just used thin double sided tape on the outside edges of the new glass for now as i haven't found a permanent way to hold down the glass yet. I will probably leave it that way so next time it breaks i don't have to go through the long process of separating the glass from the LCD again. In my opinion it was well worth the $10 and the labor to replace just the outer glass rather than the $130-$150 for the replacement LCD/digitizer and outer glass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks for trying, braveheart. I'm gonna try that too. Dont have a 100 to spend on the pair.
Can you make a guide of that? I think it will help alot of users. You can get pictures from internet and mark the critical points which will help in separation.
broken screen. Help!!! .
Month back, dropped my phone(2-3 times).
Now stuck with unusable mobile.
Can somebody suggest,where I can get its lcd [email protected]+ digitilizer, on cheap price.

Galaxy S 3 Glass replacement (Not with lcd screen)

Unfortunately, I broke the glass on my gs3 screen today it dropped about 3 and a half feet and landed flat on its the front face. Thankfully.... It didn't break the lcd screen it just shattered the glass. I am looking for a replacement somewhere but I have only found the white front glass replacement for 25 dollars, but I need the blue. I don't want to buy the white unless I have too has anyone seen the blue glass replacement anywhere?
Did you ever find or get a replacement glass only for your S3... I just cracked my glass last night 2 days only into having my phone... I am so pissed at myself right now... I have been trying to do some research and are you able to just replace the glass and still have the touchscreen functions work cause that is the cheapest way... you can find replacement screens all over eBay and in any color even red for 30... but due to my research I'm feeling you have to buy the full glass with the LCD for around 200 because of the circuitry making the touchscreen functions work all together and if that is the case I rather just go through insurance... if you can get back to me with how you went about it that would be awesome... or if anyone has any information or suggestions ... until then I'll keep banging my head against the wall... :banghead:
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
You will need the $200 replacement. Samsung glass is infused to LCD. Good luck trying to disassemble and reassemble just buy the LCD and digitizer together
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Ya that is what I figured after doing some research on it... so I looked into trying to find some glue or transparent adhesive maybe... but your right, truly the best best is to buy the glass, lcd, digitizer combination... ugh I'm just so disappointed in myself... thanks for the reply though!
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