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It seems to me that there is a lot of frustration amongst devs, those in the know, and the unschooled to the ways regarding pretty basic information. Stuff like "is MR2 froyo or gingerbread?". I know I'd be asking and saying some industrial strength stupid and annoying things if I didn't have a good friend in the know. I suppose what I'm suggesting here is perhaps several things. The first would be describing a number of specifications regarding the ROM or kernel at hand. Not just for the latest ROM or kernel, but for all the downloads available on the OP. Usually the change log covers that, but what I'm suggesting here is a certain I uniformity of certain information. That way some noob can go do his homework real fast and not post some stupid question.
The second thought I have is creating the "stupid question thread" (that would grow like a weed, huh?). It would have basic stuff like what the RUU's are, their characteristics, what radios they work with, what the different radios are, setting up ADB, and really basic stuff that I keep seeing posted again and again all over. I was reading through the Tbolt forums months before I got my Tbolt and my last phone was an Incredible so the worlds didn't change a hell of a lot for your average flashing junky. But that isn't everybody's experience. I'm suggesting a thread or the guy that just got his Tbolt and is saying "Now I wanna root it!" then "It's rooted! Now what's out there!" And zap! there's te thread that gives him a rundown of all the basics.
This sound like a good idea to anyone? If so, let me know and I'll work something up.
I am a noob, TB being my first Android phone. When I started reading the forums, my very first thought was: how come I can't find a noob thread that I can actually understand, that explains the basics, etc. It did not exist! Hence al the annoying (to some) posts elsewhere. If such a thread existed it would have been a huge help for me. It could be organized similar to ROM threads, with some introductory remarks, (a radio is XYZ, you flash it this way, etc.) followed by specific questions / comments. I like the idea!
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
This is a good idea.. if no one makes one soon ill take it up
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
There is no substitute for taking the time to read the various threads and educating yourself. I think the devs do a pretty good job of supporting their work but to ask them to put together super noob threads and FAQs is just not something they're gonna do with any regularity.
The reason why no one has done it is because all of the noobs are to lazy or ignorant to read those threads, then continue to post their stupid and already-answered question anyway, flooding the threads as usual.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
Mustang302LX said:
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
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I agree with you 99%. However, there are several cases especially with BAMF threads where there are hundreds of pages and thousands of posts. The OP many times doesn't have solutions to common problems and the only way to find an answer is to spend hours reading through hundreds of pages. (I admit that BAMF is doing much better with their 3.0 RC2 thread). I know you are going to say to search but when a thread is that large it is hard to find meaningful search results.
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
mpfstc said:
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
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Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
droidisawesome said:
Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
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Because most often.. the dev himself does not know the answer.. and honestly.. the best way to know if something works or not is try it yourself. .. so I can understand when devs get frustrated with people asking certain permutation and combination of patches will work with their roms or not.
Once you understand (which comes with experience and lot of googling).. what affects certain aspects of a rom.. then you'll know yourself if a particular patch will work or not.
Patches from previous roms or other roms.. will never brick your phone.. the worst.. your phone won't boot up.. or it'll boot up and FC like crazy.. in which case you can always restore.
and I agree.. the best way for a noob to educate is google..
googling is an art.. once you get good at it.. there is almost nothing that you can't get information about.
And with some of the responses I just read in this thread is exactly why I haven't rooted my T-bolt yet. I rooted my D1 and really enjoyed flashing different ROMs and Themes but the HTC experience is a bit different from the one on the Motorola. I don't feel like getting flamed for asking something that those of you that have been using HTC long enough now find to be a useless question. I ran Blackdroids ROMs because he had an IRC channel where you could ask questions without being flamed openly in a forum for 100+ to see. I learned quite a bit to where I could eventually help others with it but I'm not at all comfortable yet with Hboot and ADB but hope to learn enough from reading to not bother you with questions you find trivial. I've read for a week now so what's another week
It appears there is a need for what I propose. Regarding those who's complaint is that nobody will read it, I say, at least someone put forth the effort and if someone like, linking to the thread is easy. Indeed looking stuff up for yourself is wise, however, it takes more time for people and all too often you don't know how accurate what your reading is or from what authority the writer speaks. I will agree most devs supply ample info on their work, but often its in jargon that makes no sense or lacks context. Part of the purpose for this thread would be to supply sense and context.
Hopefully over the next few days I can find time to whip something up. I welcome all suggestions and comments for content!
I sent a pm to one of our mods asking if we can get the sticky threads cleaned up. By this I mean unsticky some of the ones that are outdated and no longer maintained by current users of this device.
Im basing this on my own ideas and this post by FB.
FBis251 said:
Solrac, it might be better if you would concentrate your efforts on updating our wiki since some information has already been repeated a few times, particularly the roms list. If you wind up putting them in the wiki then other users can edit it once you decide to not update this thread. I've seen it happen to at least two other threads already which is why team acid have moved some of our instructions to the wiki.
Sent from my SGH-T959V
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We have so much stuff stickied in the general sub that is out of date. In the development sub there is a couple threads that are no longer maintained.
My question is do you agree we need some of these threads removed from the list of stickies? Ill have a poll please select agree or disagree. If you want to post a response please do, but lets keep this civil aight?
Eollie, I agree that the stickies are cluttered. We don't even use a lot of them anymore.
I still say that we should move toward using only the wiki for guides to avoid this in the future since we've had a lot of the op's for the stickies leave and then we have oudated stickied threads. With the wiki it doesn't matter who leaves, everyone can still edit the guide and keep it up to date.
FBis251 said:
Eollie, I agree that the stickies are cluttered. We don't even use a lot of them anymore.
I still say that we should move toward using only the wiki for guides to avoid this in the future since we've had a lot of the op's for the stickies leave and then we have oudated stickied threads. With the wiki it doesn't matter who leaves, everyone can still edit the guide and keep it up to date.
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I know im new here and all, but I have checked the wiki out and to be honest I think its lacking a little... Like I said in new, and I only say this because in the wiki for ppl that are just rooting there phone the only suggestion is heimdall....well that I disagree with, cuz heimdall isnt the only way...all those one click roots like heimdall and super Didnt work for me either... I did it all through odin...I just think the options should be more that just one... But please understand im not trying to make waves, other than that issue I think it great and very informative...
I also would like to say that the devs and and a lot of members here are a great help here and I know im not alone when I say thank you.
Sent from...that shallow place in the back 40
twisted03 said:
I know im new here and all, but I have checked the wiki out and to be honest I think its lacking a little... Like I said in new, and I only say this because in the wiki for ppl that are just rooting there phone the only suggestion is heimdall....well that I disagree with, cuz heimdall isnt the only way...all those one click roots like heimdall and super Didnt work for me either... I did it all through odin...I just think the options should be more that just one... But please understand im not trying to make waves, other than that issue I think it great and very informative...
I also would like to say that the devs and and a lot of members here are a great help here and I know im not alone when I say thank you.
Sent from...that shallow place in the back 40
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Looks like it's time for YOU to edit the wiki and add a guide that works for you.
FBis251 said:
Eollie, I agree that the stickies are cluttered. We don't even use a lot of them anymore.
I still say that we should move toward using only the wiki for guides to avoid this in the future since we've had a lot of the op's for the stickies leave and then we have oudated stickied threads. With the wiki it doesn't matter who leaves, everyone can still edit the guide and keep it up to date.
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I have thought about making a update guide like the bible thread but every time I start I have never finished. Im not fond of the wiki for some of the reasons twisted spoke about, however it can be useful.
Is there a person that is notified when edits are made? So we can make sure the proper info is put on it? Ive never paid enough attention to that aspect.
There's a history option in the wiki that lets you view the latest edits, and see what exactly go changed. (It's up top in the navigation)
The thing is that the lack of information can be addressed by adding it. Twisted said there were no Odin guides, well we can add them. There's no real reason why we shouldn't be using it. I know everyone wants to start their thread with their guide on how to do things their way, but there has to be an accepted method of doing things. I've written up a few of the guides on the Wiki but then someone else comes along and improves it with a better method that is more up to date. That's how it should be, you don't have to go to MY thread to try and edit it or try to get me to update it. You can just go in and do it yourself.
Fb... I really didnt mean to cause wave bro, but to be honest I dont know which links I used to root my phone... I look tomorrow at my downloads and see which ones I used, but I do know that I tried alot of different ways so it might take me a minute to find it all... But like I said it was informative and im not taking way from the concept of it cuz I think it would be easier for new ppl trying to root there phone... There is just a lot of info out there that isnt in the wiki...
Sent from...that shallow place in the back 40
twisted03 said:
Fb... I really didnt mean to cause wave bro, but to be honest I dont know which links I used to root my phone... I look tomorrow at my downloads and see which ones I used, but I do know that I tried alot of different ways so it might take me a minute to find it all... But like I said it was informative and im not taking way from the concept of it cuz I think it would be easier for new ppl trying to root there phone... There is just a lot of info out there that isnt in the wiki...
Sent from...that shallow place in the back 40
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You're completely missing the point.
Let me make it easier.
If info is not in wiki, put info in wiki.
I agree about the cleanup but Who is to stop the trolls from updating the wiki with bad info I mean someone could of been offended by another user and think I will change the wiki and put harmful material or instructions just to mess up People phones. There should be Some checks and balance of the info that has been updated
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA
anoymonos said:
I agree about the cleanup but Who is to stop the trolls from updating the wiki with bad info I mean someone could of been offended by another user and think I will change the wiki and put harmful material or instructions just to mess up People phones. There should be Some checks and balance of the info that has been updated
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No one can stop another user/troll from putting bad, offensive, or just plan misinformation out there. The maintenance of the wiki is a community effort. Thus we are all responsible for updating it and cleaning it up.
I do like the idea of checks and balances, though. What we need for that effort are maintainers. On top of the community making updates we could have a few people that collaborate to help keep the wiki clean, up to date, etc. The trick would be getting volunteers for Team Wiki (wicked? Wikid! lol) that can put the time and effort into the moderation of the wiki.
Just my 2ȼ.
Nvm, just checked the wiki and it has either been updated or i was blind before, cuz everything i used is in the wiki...
. I'm glad you see that. If someone updates it and starts screwing with the wiki a moderator can always step in. It's basically like the forums, we can't stop you from posting, but once you've posted something that you shouldn't have, we can remove it. We can do the same on the wiki, it keeps track of the edit history, we can always revert to a good version.
Check out this nice list of ROMs available for our phone. It's the most up to date one (thanks to solrac who just updated the list of custom mtd roms portion)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S/SGH-T959V/List_of_ROMs
Thanks FB that was what I was wanting to know. I have the same reservations as anonymous and Stephen. Ive seen wikipedia edited and things slipped until somebody caught it.
Ive spoke with TRusselo and if we can come up with a list of the threads that need to be cleaned and unstuck he is willing to look into is. However since he doesnt own the phone he did not want to jump in unstickying threads willy nilly. I had planned on posting earlier today but I spent a good part of my day fixing bicycles so I can take my kiddo bike riding.
Ill be out most of tomorrow but Ill try to post my list sometime and if any of you want to also suggest it would be great. My thinking is we can always link to the threads via the wiki and maybe create a new version of the bible thread and the FAQ thread Mr. Clown created.
If you want to make suggestions please list which sub the thread is in and the thread name no need to link it. The final list will have links when I submit it to TRusselo.
Well I can say once this idea is completed it will be a lot more user friendly...
Sent from...that shallow place in the back 40
General Sub
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1122508
Froyo flashing guide not really needed since we are on GB, CM7, and now CM9.
Most of the information in this thread is general rules and mostly common sense.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1235789
This one too has some forum rules and common sense stuff posted. Maybe condense it with the one above.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1310270
This one is a PSA and again something that is part of the main rules.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1195027
This one is very informative but maybe when Juls updates it he can post it on the wiki.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1480418
___________________________________________________________________
Q & A sub
This is a old guide that has since been changed.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1215748
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Development Sub
Since this thread is very out of date it needs to be unstuck. Most information in this thread has changed and is no longer relevant.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1117554
This thread the info is out of date. The second post is useful but the first one is out of date.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979109
This one if we get official support of RM it will be outdated.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1305560
All of the above is open for suggestions or even tell me certain threads need to stay as stickies. Im just looking to trim the sticky list down.
I was also thinking each sub could have a thread that has links to the wiki for things. That way even if the person that creates it leaves and never comes back the wiki links will be the same. Then the threads can be linked on the wiki and if a thread is out dated it can be removed from the wiki.
Looks like good suggestions so far.
As far as recreating the bible thread, we can easily do that in the wiki. The roms portion is pretty much set except for roms that haven't been released yet.
The dev stickies are definitely the ones we should get rid of. right now we have 6 stickied threads. They take up a lot of room before getting to the latest content from dev threads.
I agree with creating a bible in the wiki, I was suggesting linking to it in a sticky. I tend to have a hard time expressing my thoughts in few words. I mean you have read some of my posts .
Anybody have any objections to the lists I have above?
Eollie if you want make a stickie of the rom wiki because I always update this wiki
eollie said:
Anybody have any objections to the lists I have above?
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I have not yet had an opportunity to look through your list. Seems FB read through it and I know I trust his opinion. I will look through it later. Thanks for taking the time to get this going.
Would anyone with a greater understanding of the ICS Versions be able to put up a sticky explaining them and their advantages?
As far as I know there's Leak #1, Leak #2, and OTA.
I feel that there's a lot of confusion about flashing to ICS, flashing from ICS to GB, back and forth from the Jellybeans.
I believe we now have a way to flash back to stock OTA? Are the Leaks obsolete now?
Is it dangerous to flash from a Leak to OTA and vice-versa?
Is Gingerbread now impossible to get to from OTA?
Sorry for all the questions but I believe that having these questions answered and giving people some information on the different ICS versions we're dealing with will prevent more brickings as well as prevent constant questions on the topic.
Alperon said:
Would anyone with a greater understanding of the ICS Versions be able to put up a sticky explaining them and their advantages?
As far as I know there's Leak #1, Leak #2, and OTA.
I feel that there's a lot of confusion about flashing to ICS, flashing from ICS to GB, back and forth from the Jellybeans.
I believe we now have a way to flash back to stock OTA? Are the Leaks obsolete now?
Is it dangerous to flash from a Leak to OTA and vice-versa?
Is Gingerbread now impossible to get to from OTA?
Sorry for all the questions but I believe that having these questions answered and giving people some information on the different ICS versions we're dealing with will prevent more brickings as well as prevent constant questions on the topic.
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Look this has been covered so many times now it is not funny.
The ONLY plus to leak #1 is that you CAN go back to GB on AT&T phones. Leak #2 is the same as the OTA, no difference there.
There is now an ICS FXZ, so the OTA is not so daunting anymore, but you can not go back to GB from either Leak #2 or the OTA....
Now all of this ONLY applies to the AT&T phones, all or most of the international versions can flash back to GB from ICS without issues, except for I think the TW/HK version.
Everything else is pretty much the same.
Next time please do a search. And please no complaints from anyone about how bad using search is. I use it all the time without issue, and I just tried for this and got back several good threads to read to get all the info I just gave. No it is not all in one post, but hey such is life.
Is this sbf InlineFlashing_Edison_67.21.125_CFC_P3_APBP.xml.zip from this site http://sbf.droid-developers.org/edison/list.php final official ICS?
Can I flash this over AT&T leak 1?
Yeah, you're a huge contributor around here Jim so I'll try to say this respectfully.
Some people say "Hey, that's life" while others actually do something to change it.
This forum is meant to bring information together and make it easier for people to gain knowledge on devices as well as how to modify them.
Wouldn't it be intelligent to gather all this information on ICS and put into one post, then make that post a sticky?
Yes... yes it would...
We have an interesting situation with the 2 Leaks and OTA, why not provide knowledge on that situation in one informative post?
Well... probably because "hey such is life."
PhoenixNghi said:
Is this sbf InlineFlashing_Edison_67.21.125_CFC_P3_APBP.xml.zip from this site http://sbf.droid-developers.org/edison/list.php final official ICS?
Can I flash this over AT&T leak 1?
Click to expand...
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Good joke. Ha.. Ha..
Alperon said:
Wouldn't it be intelligent to gather all this information on ICS and put into one post, then make that post a sticky?
Yes... yes it would...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.. it would be intelligent to search.
Leak #1 is not really needed anymore - it was only an issue when we did not have a 4.0.4 FXZ for AT&T or if you really want the ability to return to GB.
So, what's your idea - to make a new thread on info that the majority of users already know (and which can be found with resourceful searching), and do that for every international version of ICS with all leaks? Go for it..
Alperon said:
Yeah, you're a huge contributor around here Jim so I'll try to say this respectfully.
Some people say "Hey, that's life" while others actually do something to change it.
This forum is meant to bring information together and make it easier for people to gain knowledge on devices as well as how to modify them.
Wouldn't it be intelligent to gather all this information on ICS and put into one post, then make that post a sticky?
Yes... yes it would...
We have an interesting situation with the 2 Leaks and OTA, why not provide knowledge on that situation in one informative post?
Well... probably because "hey such is life."
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Click to collapse
Humm, why not collect the info and make the post(s) yourself? That is what I am always trying to get people to do here... I and other SR members are quite busy at the moment, so...
That seems to be the biggest issue here, is most people tend to expect everything given to them, without contributing much themselves.
I am not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to get everyone, not just you to think and do somethings for themselves. Even if you are not the most technical person, it is quite easy to figure things out or read and learn about something and make a post. If it works, needs some edits, great, then when it it is right, we can ask the MODS to sticky it.
i believe all-in-one posts creates cerebral laziness, search, learn, make mistakes, it will be good for you
sent from the gray stuff inside my skull
jimbridgman said:
Humm, why not collect the info and make the post(s) yourself? That is what I am always trying to get people to do here... I and other SR members are quite busy at the moment, so...
That seems to be the biggest issue here, is most people tend to expect everything given to them, without contributing much themselves.
I am not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to get everyone, not just you to think and do somethings for themselves. Even if you are not the most technical person, it is quite easy to figure things out or read and learn about something and make a post. If it works, needs some edits, great, then when it it is right, we can ask the MODS to sticky it.
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Okay, now that's a more helpful post. I will start gathering information and see how I can put it together for people to learn more about the ICS situation.
Which section would you recommend I put it in when I have it ready?
Alperon said:
Okay, now that's a more helpful post. I will start gathering information and see how I can put it together for people to learn more about the ICS situation.
Which section would you recommend I put it in when I have it ready?
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What is there to collect now? I really do not understand this whole thing at all. I gave you the answer for the AT&T firmware above. If you are serious, you will have to do this for EVERY firmware out there, to do it properly.
And I have been nothing but helpful in this thread, I even gave you the answer and did not make you search for it... but you and others really do need to start learning how to search better, and read more.
demonoid phenomenom said:
i believe all-in-one posts creates cerebral laziness, search, learn, make mistakes, it will be good for you
sent from the gray stuff inside my skull
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Sorry, I'd rather make it so people don't have to learn by bricking their phones.
That's like saying here's this powersaw and some directions written in Japanese. It's okay if you cut your hand off, it's all part of the "learning experience"!
I guess I shouldn't be trying to help people by centralizing information, while I'm at it I guess I'll just spread my posts out on various different forums and expect users to just do various google searches through many different forums for information instead of just being able to go to XDA and find it in one post...
Why make information more difficult to get to? This isn't some gauntlet or obstacle course, try to save people time, not waste it!
jimbridgman said:
What is there to collect now? I really do not understand this whole thing at all. I gave you the answer for the AT&T firmware above. If you are serious, you will have to do this for EVERY firmware out there, to do it properly.
And I have been nothing but helpful in this thread, I even gave you the answer and did not make you search for it... but you and others really do need to start learning how to search better, and read more.
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Answer? I don't even have a question. I'm on CM10 and plenty happy there.
I just thought I'd try to see if anyone with more information about ICS wanted to create a post explaining the different kinds.
But since noone wants to I offered to do it myself after collecting information.
Why are you so against me writing a post that could prevent confusion?
Man, no wonder there's so much confusion on this forum, you guys make everything so difficult.
"Go do a search! It's in there somewhere! Argghhh!"
I think I'll go around to all the posts that ask for information and say "Go do a search you lazy freaking bum!" so I can get a lot of Thanks from people... Woohoo... Forum posting is so much fun..
Alperon said:
Sorry, I'd rather make it so people don't have to learn by bricking their phones.
That's like saying here's this powersaw and some directions written in Japanese. It's okay if you cut your hand off, it's all part of the "learning experience"!
I guess I shouldn't be trying to help people by centralizing information, while I'm at it I guess I'll just spread my posts out on various different forums and expect users to just do various google searches through many different forums for information instead of just being able to go to XDA and find it in one post...
Why make information more difficult to get to? This isn't some gauntlet or obstacle course, try to save people time, not waste it!
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Wow, now you have taken this way to far. I am going to have this thread closed by the MODS. This will not end well.
Look, this has been covered and covered to death, there is NO reason to cover it again and again and make it so that lazy people can stay lazy. the reason it is all over the place is because it gets asked and asked again in another thread and someone else puts info in yet another thread about it... so...
Just stop this madness.... Look, I get it you have very few posts and and want to jump in, but don't do it with making this place for lazy people. If that starts I will leave. This place needs to stay for smart people... and it is really so that people read and read and read again as they should before doing anything... people get so exited here, that such and such is out, and they go flash it without reading and brick... that is their issue, I and others should not have to make it so that idiots can do that.
---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------
Alperon said:
Answer? I don't even have a question. I'm on CM10 and plenty happy there.
I just thought I'd try to see if anyone with more information about ICS wanted to create a post explaining the different kinds.
But since noone wants to I offered to do it myself after collecting information.
Why are you so against me writing a post that could prevent confusion?
Man, no wonder there's so much confusion on this forum, you guys make everything so difficult.
"Go do a search! It's in there somewhere! Argghhh!"
I think I'll go around to all the posts that ask for information and say "Go do a search you lazy freaking bum!" so I can get a lot of Thanks from people... Woohoo... Forum posting is so much fun..
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Yes you started asking about clarifying all the leaks and that ota, which I did for you. I also said to make the post and the SR's here will review and decide if it needs to be sticked and get the MODS to do so, if done well. I am not sure what more you wanted, but I will say this your tone started out in your second post in this thread start out bad, and so I and other have/had changed out tone as well. If you want to do something and make the post, that is well and good, but stop being a PIA about this and carrying on and on about what everyone is responding to you... there are reasons we all are responding this way to you about this... if you change your tone, we will too... and give you even more help most likely as well.
Alperon said:
Answer? I don't even have a question. I'm on CM10 and plenty happy there.
I just thought I'd try to see if anyone with more information about ICS wanted to create a post explaining the different kinds.
But since noone wants to I offered to do it myself after collecting information.
Why are you so against me writing a post that could prevent confusion?
Man, no wonder there's so much confusion on this forum, you guys make everything so difficult.
"Go do a search! It's in there somewhere! Argghhh!"
I think I'll go around to all the posts that ask for information and say "Go do a search you lazy freaking bum!" so I can get a lot of Thanks from people... Woohoo... Forum posting is so much fun..
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Buddy thats really not needed.. you need to calm down and just re-read the replies u have got.
We are a very helpful bunch here and since the OTA fxz out, Leak 2 or 1 for atnt is really not needed anymore i guess.. As for getting all the info in one post.. if you really feel something like this should be there, then go ahead and do it.
And thus, I have seen enough.
Where did the majority of you posters get your education from?
Cracker Jack?
Never seen such behavior from people.
Tomorrow, I will filter through the posts, and I promise, infractions will follow. Don't bother trying to edit your posts, as it's pretty much frozen.
One thing you all must remember. There are Devs. And these Devs give you all thats possible with what they have to work with. If you expect more, then why argue with the Devs are to blame?????
Why not argue with the manufacturer?
So,in light of a ton of ungrateful users, this thread is closed.
MD
As im sure most of you all know, I have locked the Unofficial CM10 thread. It isnt because of one person or one event, but something that has been coming for a long time. I have been stressing myself with this build and making sure that everyone was happy and doing pretty much everything i could do, but it didnt seem to be enough. While i appreciate the feedback, it is very disappointing to release cm10.1 when pretty much no other phones have released it (due to the lack of source merged and changes necessary for jellybean 4.2.1) and have nothing but post after post of this doesnt work and this doesnt look right and this is running horrible and blah blah blah even after i made it absolutely clear time after time that there may be issues since there is alot of source changes that are missing. You would think that since i took the time to merge the needed changes and work tirelessly to make changes and get the changes merged into our device/kernel trees to get CM 10.1 built and IMO running nicely, there would be alot of positive feedback and alot of understanding from the community that there may be little issues here and there since not everything was completely merged in on the CM side, but that was not the case as everyone expects perfection right and nothing else. Anyways, with that said, Building CM10 was becoming more of a job instead of something fun that i loved to do. And believe me... I havent had nearly enough donations to be ok with considering this a job... Nor do i expect alot of donations and for those of you who have supported me, I greatly appreciate it. I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
scott.hart.bti said:
As im sure most of you all know, I have locked the Unofficial CM10 thread. It isnt because of one person or one event, but something that has been coming for a long time. I have been stressing myself with this build and making sure that everyone was happy and doing pretty much everything i could do, but it didnt seem to be enough. While i appreciate the feedback, it is very disappointing to release cm10.1 when pretty much no other phones have released it (due to the lack of source merged and changes necessary for jellybean 4.2.1) and have nothing but post after post of this doesnt work and this doesnt look right and this is running horrible and blah blah blah even after i made it absolutely clear time after time that there may be issues since there is alot of source changes that are missing. You would think that since i took the time to merge the needed changes and work tirelessly to make changes and get the changes merged into our device/kernel trees to get CM 10.1 built and IMO running nicely, there would be alot of positive feedback and alot of understanding from the community that there may be little issues here and there since not everything was completely merged in on the CM side, but that was not the case as everyone expects perfection right and nothing else. Anyways, with that said, Building CM10 was becoming more of a job instead of something fun that i loved to do. And believe me... I havent had nearly enough donations to be ok with considering this a job... Nor do i expect alot of donations and for those of you who have supported me, I greatly appreciate it. I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
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you have a charachter flaw. you're a people pleaser. once you get over that and become a true asshole you will be much happier in life.
Dani897 said:
you have a charachter flaw. you're a people pleaser. once you get over that and become a true asshole you will be much happier in life.
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Lol! So true!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Just wanted to put my two cents in...I've been an avid user of the roms from this site for quite awhile now & have never felt the need to register because any issues I've ever had,I've been able to rectify with some searching or have been on roms that have clearly stated they were beta's & expected to have flaws. That being said...after watching what happened on your infuse board, I just wanted to let you know the fact that you're continuing to develop & keep our phones updated with the best features gave me the first true reason to register so I could say thanks...
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Thank You.
I don't blame Scott for having the thread closed, not one bit.
And Dani is correct, Scott's character flaw is only that he's missing the "asshole" gene that some tend to have.
Now on to the good part...
I'm getting back into the swing of things as far as porting and development goes. My first attempt is going to be a nearly pure AOSP build using Aries repos and some Maguro/Takju code base, with parts from the most recent CM10.1 base. I have an idea of what I want to incorporate, but it should be light and clean, with a smooth interface.
Scott, I will be in touch with you shortly on this, as I need to finish and finalize my SDK installs and get everything going correctly for a first build.
Just checked Scotts goo link. Can I safely assume the development continues? If so hallelujah the infuse lives on.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
hattrickinc said:
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
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But Scott specifically asked multiple times not to post bugs on the 4.2/cm10.1 releases due to the fact that source is still being merged -cm said themselves that the 4.2 code would be buggy and that you probably wouldn't be able to build anything with it...for the most part Scott proved both of those wrong
However I do like the idea of the three threads
Sent from my HTC Holiday using Tapatalk 2
openwheelracing said:
Just checked Scotts goo link. Can I safely assume the development continues? If so hallelujah the infuse lives on.
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scott.hart.bti said:
I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
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Yes, he will keep developing, but don't expect to see updates on this forum, which is a shame. His CM10 thread was actually the only reason I got on XDA.
Thanks for the update, Scott. Don't let the drama llamas get you down
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
hattrickinc said:
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
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For the most part I agree with you. Its why I probably pissed a bunch of people off defending the late comers and those that just don't know about logcats and such.
However, it was stated multiple times by not just Scott but the more senior and knowledgeable members that the 4.2 was going to have problems.
I agree searching through 1000 plus posts can be a daunting task and maybe I just don't have a life but I've done it for every ICS/JB rom I've flashed.. But I was there at the beginning of that development so it made it easier. But you didn't have to read more than 2 pages between warnings for the 4.2.
I'm on Scott's side on this one.
If nothing else click on the op's profile and just read all their posts.
Personally I think only devs should be allowed to post on a dev thread but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
I agree. I think there should be a minimum post count of 100 and a requirement to agree to a separate 'contract' to post in dev. threads. I read dev threads to find out what's going on in development not the rubbish that appears in most dev threads. The infuse forums have been fairly tolerant of this kind of thing. Other forums on xda, much less so.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Changelog
I think another part of the problem is that very little actual development discussion happens here. It seems that people release their stuff here, and respond to bug reports, but that's about it. You can learn a lot about Linux by reading the archives of the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML). It's not quite the same situation here, learning about android is much harder (i have yet to find an android equivalent for the LKML)
Anyway, Thanks for continuing development! Will you be posting a change log between releases? I just like to know what I'm flashing ahead of time
Thanks,
woody
Scotts just released CM10.1 on goomanager 12/10 build go check it out
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Scott,
Glad to see you will be still be developing. Will there be some type of change log somewhere that we can view? I agree with some of the past. 500 pages of posts to read/search is alot. possibly a better brake down would have keep people posting in the correct places. Also with the 4.2 merge MY opionion would have been to make a separate thread as the last 4.1.2 was stable and really usable as its still my current daily. If the items arent merged maybe it isnt a good idea to even make a realease unless its to a few beta testers. That way 100s of people dont whine and complain about known or dumb issues.
Either way keeep up the good work.
Not sure how it would be accomplished, but a good idea would be to remove all posts from the cm10 thread and only scott could post in it (updates/changelog).
I have no idea how feasible that would be though.
Many thanks to scott
Hi scott, I never felt the need to comment in your thread because I never had any problems with your ROM.
But now I feel the need to comment here to express my gratitude for all the hard work that you have put into this ROM.
Your ROM is the first one that I tried, and also the best one I've seen/used. I'm VERY glad that you will continue your work for the Infuse.
Again, I thank you for your work, and I will be looking forward to future updates!
UnhoIy said:
His CM10 thread was actually the only reason I got on XDA.
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This^
hovin1988 said:
Hi scott, I never felt the need to comment in your thread because I never had any problems with your ROM.
But now I feel the need to comment here to express my gratitude for all the hard work that you have put into this ROM.
Your ROM is the first one that I tried, and also the best one I've seen/used. I'm VERY glad that you will continue your work for the Infuse.
Again, I thank you for your work, and I will be looking forward to future updates!
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And this^
I generally just read through the thread reading peoples issues if i ran into one rather than post. Issues were always sorted out if i kept reading. But thanks for all your hard work in creating roms, I know i'd be really bad off without them :good:
I think the communication and forum issues are simply a result of using a forum for "developer collaboration". Then to top it off, many are using tapatalk, which has the most useless search feature ever. I've heard the argument that a proper browser should be used, but many just won't.
As long as a forum is used for xda development, it will continue to be more like a ROM forum than anything else intended without ridiculous amounts of moderation (even judicious use of temp bans without warning).
Forums are good for arguing lol. Bugtrackers are good for tracking bugs, especially since they are easy to police. If you want feedback as well, make a special category for that. Duplicates and invalid reports can be easily identified and marked as such. For all other forums(general, q&a, accessories, etc.) a forum makes sense to me. For the development forum, a forum, IMO, makes little sense.
If the forum format is used in order to foster community, fine. You can expect a lot of drama, arguing, complaining, and everything else that goes along with it.
Just my opinion. I could be completely wrong.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app lol
Edit: rephrasing to make sure I get an answer and illiminate dev bashing like I had in my initial post
Can anyone provide insight as to what happened with teams, like DU and any others, that made them leave and have a whole other forum site created?
This can go nowhere good. I recommend it be closed.
cntryby429 said:
This can go nowhere good. I recommend it be closed.
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Not sure what you mean. I had a question and am looking for answers... Now whatever people want to reply with is up to them. This is not a part of the development forum so your request is unwarranted. Regardless I did remove and reword the entire question as I did add to the bashing that isn't needed. Its enough to say I personally do not like the attitude of the entire DU team and never flashed their roms before because of it.
Now maybe this belongs in the guides, news, discussion section and if so that is my bad but I wasn't sure. But I am curious what happened and that's all I want to know
devilsadidas said:
Edit: rephrasing to make sure I get an answer and illiminate dev bashing like I had in my initial post
Can anyone provide insight as to what happened with teams, like DU and any others, that made them leave and have a whole other forum site created?
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maybe ask them.. maybe cause of posts like this.. maybe cause of the other threads that have opened.. all speculation...although don't always see eye to eye with Alex.. i do admire his work and determination.. and the way people cower when he comes around
johnandbodhi said:
maybe ask them.. maybe cause of posts like this.. maybe cause of the other threads that have opened.. all speculation...although don't always see eye to eye with Alex.. i do admire his work and determination.. and the way people cower when he comes around
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They have their opinion and I've read some of it through posts. Are you mad I asked a question on a public forum hoping for an alternate version or side? Also curious how you've seen anyone cower to anyone from DU or another team? I've seen mean comments to and from but no cowering.
Who cares if he asked a question. No big deal lol. As to why they don't post it here. I have no idea at all but I'm sure there's some kind of drama that people overreacted about