Database Info

Applications to SD - WITHOUT PARTITONING (BETA TEST)

I'm looking for beta testers for a new App2SD implementation that does not require your MicroSD card to be partitioned which is potentially unsafe and can result in a loss of your data. If you'd like to test this new implementation before it's release here on XDA shoot me an email at [email protected] with what firmware and version you're using.
More information will be released after I get a few positive beta tests out of the way.

loopback device, eh?
I tried that a while back but never could get the loopback driver to load early enough in the boot process reliably.
Hope you have better luck than I did.

As [email protected] pointed out to me a while ago, this is not a good idea for security reasons. If your loopback file sits on the FAT partition, it is accessible by all of the apps, it can be read, overwritten and deleted by a rogue app bypassing the entire android security model. If this is what you intend to do, it's probably not "safer".

Hey, shot you an email. Ready to try it out. But only for beta.
Hit me up, I have no apps to lose.
But security? Idk just let me know whats up.

what happens when you mount the SD card to your computer?

I'd like to try it, but i don't yet have a class6 sd card. Is that necessary?

i'd be willing to give this a shot. I have no data to lose as well.

southsko said:
what happens when you mount the SD card to your computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true. Won't all your apps disappear when you mount the SD?

This smells fishy not many app developers with 1 post can this be someone testing their new exploit/virus?No offense to original poster im just sayin....???
Edit:Sorry to OP clearly not a virus,and good luck on getting it stable I will gladly donate to your cause partitioning is a pain!

don't be a jackass, many people have had great ideas and decided to come to XDA to share them. just because you are a complete idiot who can't program does not mean that the OP is too.
@@OP
you are playing with fire my dear friend. i don't think that mounting your apps on the FAT32 partition is a good idea at all. not only because it would allow any program to access and write without asking android permission first, but because it would allow people to mount the SDcard and steal paid apps even easier. i beg of you please rethink your idea

I imagine the phone would be crashing when the phone is mounted to the computer. lol. just kidding. =]

tubaking182 said:
don't be a jackass, many people have had great ideas and decided to come to XDA to share them. just because you are a complete idiot who can't program does not mean that the OP is too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF?Just came back to edit my post and put that its for real cause like I should have done first I found this http://noderat.com/loop2sd/.But as for your insults who the hell are you?How the f**k do you know what I can or can not do?I was posting in the first place to start trying be more active in the forums no reason for you to be a **** anyways,I was tryin to help people not get what I thought may have been a virus was that really that bad?

i'm not sure that is 100% true. when i mount my phone(apps2sd) my phone decides to mount the ext2 partion and the FAT32 partition, i am using ubuntu so my computer is able to read the partition, but my phone doesn't crash(i've yet to try running an app while mounted though)

Android can acces the sdcard while mounted.
Try terminal emulator.

crotalusfreak said:
This smells fishy not many app developers with 1 post can this be someone testing their new exploit/virus?No offense to original poster im just sayin....???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, take it from someone who has many posts and 15 years of unix experience, it is a bad idea.
Most of the devs here had this same idea, but as I mention in my previous post, this is opening yourself up to many bad security issues. To all those who answer, "I have no data to lose", that's fine as a beta tester. But what's the point in beta testing something that cannot be safely used by anyone who does have data (or apps) to lose?
I should point out to those who perhaps do not realize some the consequences of my original post, that it is not just a potential data loss problem, but a potential arbitrary code execution vulnerability. If an application manages to replace the loopback file with a new loopback file, it could inject altered common applications. If this succeeds, it means that previously trusted applications which have been granted privileges (or root using the various su apps) at install time, could be replaced with trojan versions which can have complete control over your system... steal your passwords... reflash your bootloader and literally install a permanent trojan... brick your phone... <insert other scary things besides data loss here>.
It's your phone, do what you want. I just figured that I would re-post that this not a new idea, but one that has been rejected by those of us with unix experience who realize the consequences. If you are just messing around, go ahead, it's not likely to hurt your phone. But, as a general method to build upon and be depended on, this should not have a future. If this becomes common practice, it is highly likely that exploits will be written to take advantage of this vulnerability.
So, if you are asking yourself if something is fishy, yes something is: it's a logical idea which seems great on the surface, but it has an unfortunate flaw.
Note: I am not suggesting malicious intent on the OP's part, just that they may not have thought of the consequences of suggesting this as a common method to do apps2sd. And if the OP (or someone else) is able to point out a method to avoid the things I warn against I will happily retract my statements (if I agree that this method would indeed work) since this method has some obvious benefits. However sadly, I think that is highly unlikely.

maxisma said:
Android can acces the sdcard while mounted.
Try terminal emulator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it can't. It can only access the empty mountpoint.

If you want to do this, there IS a way to make it work SAFELY....
Find the functions that control sdcard mounting and unmounting and FIX it so that it will mount an ext2 first partition. Then forget about the whole loopback thing as thats not going to do anyone any good... If you do it like this, then unionfs it, then unmounting the sdcard should safely vanish the apps that are stored on the card (leaving the internally stored apps), might crash the launcher, but that'll restart immediately and won't even error out.
A second step in the right direction would be to find the place where programs are detected from, which currently looks in /data/app, /data/app-private, /system/app, so it can clearly handle loading software from multiple locations -- add in a new path. Or maybe link app-private to /sdcard... A little more challenging would be to allow it look in multiple locations for thing that are ALL currently in /data/data and /data/dalvik-cache.
And then when its done, submit a patch for the source.

Wow what a response. Here's a few key bulletpoints:
I'm not a forum poster, not the kinda person for it but I have been on XDA Dream since I got my pre-launch G1 as a CSR.
There are potential security flaws with the current ext2 method of a2sd, and bypassing root to mount the ext2 partition is possible.
a2sd is not stable in any format, so it's a use at your own risk until android improves kinda deal.
I'm not cool enough to write a virus, but thank you for the ego boost
Anybody using a third-party firmware is not safe nor secure. If you're reading this forum you're not safe nor secure. The idea of homebrew roms is to add extra features that are not in Android to begin with and with that comes security risks. No ROM is ever perfect but I'd trust a Google or T-Mobile rom with my security before any homebrew-anything.So yes it's use at your own risk
This has the same results for mounting on a PC as MarcusMaximus's a2sd.sh
This doesn't really make it any easier to steal paid apps, it's always been easy and always will be but this doesn't change it.
If you guys have other questions shoot me an email, like I said I don't really do much forum-posting (never had much of anything to say, maybe this'll change all that)
[email protected]

JakeEv said:
I'd like to try it, but i don't yet have a class6 sd card. Is that necessary?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The faster the better but I've done it with the stock card that came in the G1 as well as a Class 6.

id try it since i can not get apps2sd to work.
[email protected]
using JF 1.51

[REQUEST] Integrate switchrom.sh instead of nandroid in the recovery menu.

Is it possible. I have a magic so no keyboard here... I cant execute the commands needed to perform switchrom.sh. If it could be integrated in the menu it wold be much appreciated.
It seems more complete backup as it packages the /system/sd folder...

You can execute commands with the adb shell command. So you are only limited to where adb is, ie next to a computer/laptop.

I know cyan has mentioned adding the ability to select a nandroid back up to restore to his next recovery image, i just figured with how actively he is developing his donut rom he hasnt had time. I am sure once things slow down with the rom we will get his next recovery image "when its ready"

if possible this would be a wonderful addition to the already elegant recovery image, not that going into terminal or using adb is overly difficult especially the way the script is setup, but im always looking to have it one click shorter

zambezy said:
Is it possible. I have a magic so no keyboard here... I cant execute the commands needed to perform switchrom.sh. If it could be integrated in the menu it wold be much appreciated.
It seems more complete backup as it packages the /system/sd folder...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is why I think the HTC Magic is a step down from the G1. Both the same except one has a keyboard and the other doesn't... pointless.
However... good request.

jugg2000 said:
And this is why I think the HTC Magic is a step down from the G1. Both the same except one has a keyboard and the other doesn't... pointless.
However... good request.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It also has more memory...

mer6 said:
It also has more memory...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Memory is not such a big issue, running aps2sd and linux-swap makes the G1 cope just as well with everything. I would say that my G1 runs faster than my wife's Magic with the same cyanogen ROM.
IMO the biggest "upgrade" is the battery: much longer life and charges faster. HUGE difference!
Another nice feature is the glowing trackball (I'm jealous).
OK, enough with this off-topic. I second the request for integrating switchrom in the recovery. (and I would like to add a request for the ability to restore ANY nandroid backup).

pascanu said:
Memory is not such a big issue, running aps2sd and linux-swap makes the G1 cope just as well with everything. I would say that my G1 runs faster than my wife's Magic with the same cyanogen ROM.
IMO the biggest "upgrade" is the battery: much longer life and charges faster. HUGE difference!
Another nice feature is the glowing trackball (I'm jealous).
OK, enough with this off-topic. I second the request for integrating switchrom in the recovery. (and I would like to add a request for the ability to restore ANY nandroid backup).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol cyanogen is pretty busy, I'm sure hes fiddling with Roms so much he finds little time for anything else, this including recovery images which have
"switchrom" built into them

Wouldn't this a better directed at amen_ra in the magic section?

twistedumbrella said:
Wouldn't this a better directed at amen_ra in the magic section?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well id like that feature in a recovery image too. it would make it a lot more convenient and cyan is the man when it comes to recovery images (and everything g1)

i love switchrom... i got a second g1 last night, got it rooted, new spl, new radio, and got everything up and running. decided to pull one of my backups from my actual g1 and try to flash it. pulled it from my normal g1, put it on sdcard/switchrom/ and voila! it worked. now im immediately back to where i was. switchrom definitely makes things a little easier.

palosjr said:
i love switchrom... i got a second g1 last night, got it rooted, new spl, new radio, and got everything up and running. decided to pull one of my backups from my actual g1 and try to flash it. pulled it from my normal g1, put it on sdcard/switchrom/ and voila! it worked. now im immediately back to where i was. switchrom definitely makes things a little easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... you can easily do that with nandroid.

persiansown said:
... you can easily do that with nandroid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know. just letting it be known that it works

persiansown said:
... you can easily do that with nandroid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nandroid doesn't backup your ext partition with all your apps.
I don't know how anyone would integrate switchrom, you still need to type to name your backups. I personally would like it just for the fact I wouldn't have to mount system/sd then type the path out and what not

pascanu said:
OK, enough with this off-topic. I second the request for integrating switchrom in the recovery. (and I would like to add a request for the ability to restore ANY nandroid backup).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dumfuq has taken the great innovations started by devsk and, IMO, completed the switchrom script. You can now backup/restore only nandroid, only ext, or both, along with other advanced options included. This script is not in that thread's OP, so you need to go HERE to get it. I've already PM'd cyanogen about it, so he's aware.

B-man007 said:
well id like that feature in a recovery image too. it would make it a lot more convenient and cyan is the man when it comes to recovery images (and everything g1)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's nice... even though the original op request was due to the lack of hardware keyboards, which a G1 has. You go ahead and put all your faith in one guy who is busy as is, and ill release the integrated switchrom version I made to everyone else k?
Speaking of which
Zero Enhanced Recovery Images:
G1: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_DRC-1.0.img
MT3G: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_HRC-1.0.img
To use switchrom on these, run "sh sbin/switchrom.sh"
This will list the available commands for future use
This is only until I integrate the menu option directly
Original Thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4365404#post4365404

twistedumbrella said:
That's nice... even though the original op request was due to the lack of hardware keyboards, which a G1 has. You go ahead and put all your faith in one guy who is busy as is, and ill release the integrated switchrom version I made to everyone else k?
Speaking of which
Zero Enhanced Recovery Images:
G1: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_DRC-1.0.img
MT3G: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_HRC-1.0.img
To use switchrom on these, run "sh sbin/switchrom.sh"
This will list the available commands for future use
This is only until I integrate the menu option directly
Original Thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4365404#post4365404
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impressive and quite amusing at the same time. Great work Twisted.

twistedumbrella said:
That's nice... even though the original op request was due to the lack of hardware keyboards, which a G1 has. You go ahead and put all your faith in one guy who is busy as is, and ill release the integrated switchrom version I made to everyone else k?
Speaking of which
Zero Enhanced Recovery Images:
G1: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_DRC-1.0.img
MT3G: http://twistedumbrella.slackdev.com/Zero_HRC-1.0.img
To use switchrom on these, run "sh sbin/switchrom.sh"
This will list the available commands for future use
This is only until I integrate the menu option directly
Original Thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=4365404#post4365404
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is this the same as cyanogens and JF recovery with added switchrom or is it a completely new recovery image?

Why not just use Amon Ra's recovery image? Has alot more features than cyanogens one plus the switchrom you want. I used to hate mounting /system/sd before i backed up

[Q] Cannot Uninstall Apps!??

Hello...
I'm having a couple issues with my EVO. I'm rooted but haven't flashed ANY custom ROMS. The only thing I done really root-wise is to flash a couple font packs and to backup everything with Titanium Pro.
Anyway, I have been having a problem where all the apps installed on my SD card will NOT launch. They don't even show up in the app drawer!! Occasionally, once every 5-10 reboots of the phone, the apps WILL show up but more often than not (and lately EVERY TIME I reboot) I can only access the apps installed on the internal phone memory.
It has been suggested to me to free up some space on my card and with the internal memory of my phone. I have an 8GB SD card that was down to 250MB of space. That is now been cleared out so that 1.2GB is free.
Now, HERE IS MY PROBLEM going forward...
I've been trying to clear out some apps installed on the phone because I only had about 42MB of memory left and received a warning on the phone that space was getting low. I was able to uninstall a few apps to free up space to 61MB, HOWEVER, I CANNOT SEEM TO UNINSTALL APPS ANYMORE!! No matter what method I try...using an app like "Easy Uninstaller" or going through the Manage Applications option on the phone, it is NOT working.
If I use Easy Uninstaller or the Manage Applications route, I see the progress bar of the supposed uninstall but it just HANGS...never finishes.
In addition, ODDLY, as I look at my phone next to me as I type, all the information in the "Manage Applications" mode is stuck on "computing..." If I click on an app name to bring me to the Force Stop/Uninstall/Clear Data/Move to SD card, etc screen, there is NO information about the app!! The Storage information Total, Application and Data are "stuck" on "Computing..." as is the "Cache" information.
I THOUGHT my problem was with the card or reading the card. All the data is INTACT in the card. I can access anything with a file explorer. I can even view gallery pictures that I have saved in folders I have created ON THE CARD. I just can't get to or launch the apps installed the card and NOW it appears that the information associated with apps installed ON THE PHONE is now banged up.
Has anyone seen this problem with uninstalling apps?? Seeing the "Computing..." information just hang and not go anywhere?? Any thoughts on a fix short of doing a hard reset of the phone and/or Nandroid restore?? I'm not averse to a Nandroid restore, however, I am NOT sure if my underlying problem causing these issues is WITHIN MY BACKUP FILES
THANKS!!

I would do a hard reset regardless. It will return your ROM to a pristine state in less time than it took to write that post and you'll soon find out if it fixed your problems.
If it doesn't i would back up files from SD, format and try again.

DirkGently1 said:
I would do a hard reset regardless. It will return your ROM to a pristine state in less time than it took to write that post and you'll soon find out if it fixed your problems.
If it doesn't i would back up files from SD, format and try again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure am glad you decided to edit your post to include a bit more helpful information rather than your original terse and not-so-warm statement which read:
DirkGently1 said:
I would do a hard reset regardless. It will return your ROM to a pristine state in less time than it took to write that post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize if I wasn't clear in the fact that I knew I could easily and simply do a hard reset to, likely, eliminate my problems. In fact, I wrote:
Scudderb said:
Any thoughts on a fix short of doing a hard reset of the phone and/or Nandroid restore?? I'm not averse to a Nandroid restore, however, I am NOT sure if my underlying problem causing these issues is WITHIN MY BACKUP FILES
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See??
My GOAL with this post was to try to figure out WHY this was happening. My fear was, if I backed up, reformatted and tried again, that I might simply be transferring the problem BACK to my clean settings. I was HOPING with this post, which took "longer than a hard reset to type," that the information I provided might shed some light on what was causing the problems and that SOMEONE might suggest how to avoid in the future.
Yeah, so I wasn't quite looking for the obvious "start from scratch" answer...

DirkGently1 said:
I would do a hard reset regardless. It will return your ROM to a pristine state in less time than it took to write that post and you'll soon find out if it fixed your problems.
If it doesn't i would back up files from SD, format and try again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read it again. I just told you what i would do. If you choose to do something different it's up to you.
We learn by doing!

DirkGently1 said:
Read it again. I just told you what i would do. If you choose to do something different it's up to you.
We learn by doing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big, BIG thanks for stating the OBVIOUS. By the way, way BEFORE you even replied, I flashed a recovery that put my system back to where I was before the problem. That option was neither difficult nor what I was seeking in posting my questions.
We learn NOTHING by "doing" what you suggested. We learn NOTHING by hitting "factory reset" on the phone or even doing what I did with flashing a recovery. One WOULD LEARN if told some of the reasons this might have occurred and ways to avoid in the future. Feel free to follow this thread so that you can learn as well.
Actually, you, yourself might need your own "hard reset"...or change your username to "Dirk-Not-So-Gently." I've never quite encountered such attitude with a suggestion so obvious and uninformative.
Ok...moving forward beyond the obvious, brain-dead "factory restore"/flash recovery option that I have already done. I was hoping someone might shed some light on this situation so that I and others might LEARN the reasons this occurred and avoid it in the future??
Thanks...
BTW..."Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result". You can keep your insanity and reset your phone every time without figuring out the the cause. Forgive me though, I'm gonna try and LEARN why this happened...

Have you fixed it yet? Let us know when you've done a hard reset of the phone and/or Nandroid restore.

DirkGently1 said:
Have you fixed it yet? Let us know when you've done a hard reset of the phone and/or Nandroid restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW...do we even READ before we post??
Scudderb said:
Big, BIG thanks for stating the OBVIOUS. By the way, way BEFORE you even replied, I flashed a recovery that put my system back to where I was before the problem. That option was neither difficult nor what I was seeking in posting my questions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I added a little emphasis...you must have overlooked or not read thoroughly. Shocker. I'm WAAAAAY beyond the need to reset/restore...did so even before your first reply.
It's OK...honestly...don't mean to waste your time and have you struggle to help me here. Let's just let someone else read this to see if they might have an idea about the CAUSES of the problems. You, yourself are on some sort of endless loop suggesting to reset reset reset restore without giving ANY assistance as to the CAUSE of the problem. It's OK...you can rest...no need to keep replying...nighty, night...

Download an uninstaller from the android market, if not get root explorer(check r/w) and go to /data/app and uninstall the desired app.

It looks like you need to do a master reset using Odin3, I am sure that will fix the problem if nothing else you have done has fixed it......

Eth3n said:
Download an uninstaller from the android market, if not get root explorer(check r/w) and go to /data/app and uninstall the desired app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interestingly, ALL methods of uninstalling apps were not working..."Uninstaller," "Easy Uninstaller" and the typical Manage Applications options were what I tried. I didn't try to check r/w and also didn't try to uninstall through Titanium Pro but wound up flashing a nand recovery that brought me back a few days to BEFORE when my problem started. So I'm OK now.
What I'm TRYING to do, however, is to figure out WHY this was happening so that it doesn't happen again. Internal memory too low (got down to 9-10%)?? Internal memory corruption?? Cache issues?? Any ideas??

Misterjunky said:
It looks like you need to do a master reset using Odin3, I am sure that will fix the problem if nothing else you have done has fixed it......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were suggesting a un-root and/or getting me back to stock, fortunately, I didn't have to do that!
As I mentioned above, I'm now trying to see if someone might know WHY this happened so that I can avoid it in the future. Thanks...

Scudderb said:
....I'm now trying to see if someone might know WHY this happened so that I can avoid it in the future. Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User error. Try a Factory Reset.

DirkGently1 said:
Have you fixed it yet? Let us know when you've done a hard reset of the phone and/or Nandroid restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wanted to let anyone else having the problem that I was posting about that I was able to fix my problem!!
Whoever suggested the information above REALLY didn't know what he was talking about. The suggestion was QUITE unnecessary...and pretty OBVIOUS if you think about it?? I'm surprised the suggestion wasn't to go to the store and get a new phone. I'm sure happy I did some more research!!
Well, the problem resides in what was likely some corruptions in the .android_secure directory. I simply uninstalled the apps installed on the card, deleted the contents of the .android_secure directory and restored the apps and data using Titanium Backup! That's it!! Even if a Nandroid restore was done it would not have changed the corruption that would have remained in the directory.
So, hope what I asked, what I tried and what worked helps someone!!

Have you thought about going to the store and buying a new phone? I don't know if there's a way to recover from such a ruthless error.

DreamPCs said:
Have you thought about going to the store and buying a new phone? I don't know if there's a way to recover from such a ruthless error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on your suggestion I went ahead and bought TWO new phones...so I can call one phone to see if the other is working.
Wow, with a recommendation like yours, whoever said there weren't any geniuses on here...and funny ones too...were just proven wrong.
I'll let you know how my third phone turns out when I buy it...

DreamPCs said:
Have you thought about going to the store and buying a new phone? I don't know if there's a way to recover from such a ruthless error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I tried to donate to you for this great information but the link doesn't work...oh well, darn!!

Have you fixed it yet?

[Q] Roms and patches - is it this easy?

When I first got my G-tab I was baffled by all the instructions and the literally thousands of posts in the forum. Even now, I haven't been able to find exactly how (or why) I should update my kernel. That said, I have TNT Lite running and I love my g-tab. Exploring the possible uses and utilities on it provides hours of fun. Now - here is my question. I stumbled on some instructions for installing the ROM and I have used those same instructions to install several patches to the Rom. I see all this commentary on Clockwork, side loading, etc. and I wonder if I am missing something. Today I just installed the .25 patch for TNT-Lite. I downloaded the rar file, unzipped it on my PC to get the Recovery folder and the update.zip file. I plugged the g-tab into the pc and switched it to usb mode. Then I moved the old recover folder and update.zip to a folder (cautious me) and put the new ones in the root. I disconnected the usb and started the g-tab in recovery mode (holding the power and volume+ key. It rebooted, applied the patch and I was done. That seems simple enough. It would seem that this would work for switching roms, applying patches and probably even upgrading the kernel (If I knew where it was and why I should do it). Am I missing something? Everything seems to work.

Sounds like you got the basics ok.
The real main reason to update the kernal as i see it is to add things like driver support for devices like gps and g3, so on, also minor fixs. If your not using your gtab for anything like this you maybe happy to stay stock. But if you like myself like to use your gtab to surf with g3 or as a sweet gps, then thats what the kernal updates allow. Im sure others can correct me if ive got anything wrong or add to what ive said.

You got the basic steps right, but installing ClockWorkMod Recovery has a lot of benefits.
First, built in backup and recovery will save your skin if the gTab get "cranky".
Second, installing ROMs and/or updates saves you a few steps. From "tar" files (TnT-lite), extract the update.zip file to a folder (I created a folder named "xda", just an example) and name it after the version of ROM/update.
CWM will flash "*.zip" file. This way you can keep multiple ROMs/updates on the card and switch between them.
CWM lets you clear cache, wipe Data partition, clear Dalvik-cache (use caution there), fix permissions and so much more! It is a great tool.
Sent from my gTablet-TnT-Lite-4.2.5 using TapatalkPro

So now we peel back another layer
OK so now the question of multiple roms comes up. I am not clear about the role of the rom - can I switch roms and keep all of my apps and data intact? I'm thinking like changing style sheets on a web page - presentation is different but the underlying data is still the same? Is it that easy?
And... if I am doing that perhaps I need to "clear cache" or "wipe data partition" but although I like to investigate new things I'm not willing to just walk up and push the big red button without knowing what it is for. So why would I "clear" or "wipe" things?
I get the impression that I could switch between ROMs just like switching between browsers on a pc - today Chrome, tomorrow, Firefox and never Internet Exploder... Is that correct? It took me quite a while to get the market working and it still doesn't work optimally but I'd hate to undo all the work I've done getting the g-tab humming along by switching roms. Can I?
So - anyone care to expound on the structure and how it all hooks together? What parts can be swapped out and what parts form the foundation? I'd hate to brick the little guy in my ignorance.
One final note if you know and you answer - where did YOU learn about this. Is there a book somewhere to read?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

The Need for A Wiki
I'm in the same boat as enigma. I'm not even sure what ROM is an acronym for, though I think it means operating system. A wiki would be a big help for many people. I bet people would be glad to contribute.

Well, I don't know about Android book, especially about "hacking android book" , but this (and others) forum has plenty of reading material and guides. Not to mention people (a lot more knowledgeable and experienced than me) who will offer advice and lend a hand. And Google search comes in handy too.
Switching ROMs is almost like switching the OS, or a flavor of. Very much like switching between Linux distributions; the base OS is the same, but the overlay changes the user experience. Some things do change deep down inside, that's why is advisable to clear data.
Android, like Linux which it is based on, uses separate partitions for different parts of the OS, like boot, recovery, data, cache and user data. Plenty of write ups and discussions on the web on that.
So when flashing a ROM, you'll rewrite boot and system. Your user apps and data/preferences pertaining to those apps are stored in data partition, and since you are changing the 'OS', the apps need to be recompiled for it. Backup apps, like Titanium Backup, come extremely handy here: backup and restore apps AND appdata with a few clicks.
Backups are stored on sdcard, which is a lot like Linux /home directory, and do not get wiped during flash. Also the CWM (sometimes called Nandroid) backups are also stored there. A backup-of-the-backup is always a good habit (copy of /sdcard to your PC for safekeep).
This is just a quick rundown, hopefully that answered some of the questions.
There is a world of information available out there in "ether-world", Google is your friend.
[EDIT]:
Some links:
http://android-dls.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://lifehacker.com/#!5596108/how-to-choose-the-right-android-rom-for-you
and of course:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=841
(use the search on top of the screen)
Sent from my gTablet-TnT-Lite-4.2.5 using TapatalkPro

Doesn't my sticky on how to flash the roms help at all? I can try to make it clearer if you have suggestions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892090

TeamSpeed said:
Doesn't my sticky on how to flash the roms help at all? I can try to make it clearer if you have suggestions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892090
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, your Sticky is as clear as Florida sky.
I just installed Thumb Keyboard on my gTab last night and I guess I got carried away getting used to it!

Yes, I have found some very good step by steps (reflashed to vegan after reading that one). Step by steps are great but I 'd like to understand why I'm doing it. The market fix...I can follow the steps and it works but why? I wish I had time to research all these things but there are so many forums,so many posts to read! The explanation that did surface in this thread was great though. Thanks. I'll keep asking questions. There are a lot of smart people out there!

[Q] What makes the tablet slow?

After I do a fresh install of cromi on my tablet, it's just excellent, fluid and smooth. After a while, the performance seems to detoriate. It has done so for about every version I tried and the same goes for my phone (An i9300 running slimkat). So my question is this: What makes an android device inherently slower? Is there a way to see what apps may slow down the performance?

vonVaffel said:
After I do a fresh install of cromi on my tablet, it's just excellent, fluid and smooth. After a while, the performance seems to detoriate. It has done so for about every version I tried and the same goes for my phone (An i9300 running slimkat). So my question is this: What makes an android device inherently slower? Is there a way to see what apps may slow down the performance?
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Click to collapse
That is a very good question...:good: I have the same question but I can not find a solid answer for it. I hope that some developers or experts can give us a good definition of it...
This is what I know but I may be totally off and wrong, haha..
When you first install the new ROM, all your partitions are new and clean. When you write something to your data partition, it is most of the case, it just writes data to a clean blocks without erasing the blocks. After a while, most of your blocks are dirty even though they are unused or available for writing. This is the part that users see the degradation. When a new data is writing to the available and dirty blocks, first the kernel has to erase the block before writing to it. The erase process takes a lot longer than the write process according to my research...:crying: On our tf700, writing to the internal sd or mmc is very slow already. On top of that, the erasing process has to be done before writing the new data to your internal sd. If you do the math, the performance of the writing will degrade more than twice comparing the new installation..:crying: I believe that google noticed this issue so they implemented the fsTRIM on the newer kernel source to tackle this problem..:good:
However, when you are using the fsTRIM, you have to sacrifice some slightly performance loss and you don't notice performance degradation over time.. During the normal usage, I can not tell the differences if the fsTRIM is on or off but I did see the small performance loss with a bench test.. In short, I know both _that and hund's kernel support the fsTRIM but it is disable as a default. You can try to enable it to see if it is solving your degraded problem....Good luck...:fingers-crossed:
Another method is to use the lagfix manually once a week or more frequently...

Usually I reboot to recovery, wipe cache (don't need to do dalvik), reboot back to ROM and everything is quick again.
I don't know why this works though.

sbdags said:
Usually I reboot to recovery, wipe cache (don't need to do dalvik), reboot back to ROM and everything is quick again.
I don't know why this works though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks sbdags for the information...

LetMeKnow said:
This is what I know but I may be totally off and wrong, haha..
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Click to collapse
Mostly correct.
LetMeKnow said:
When a new data is writing to the available and dirty blocks, first the kernel has to erase the block before writing to it.
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Click to collapse
It's the controller in the eMMC that does that. The peculiarities of flash memory - no way to directly overwrite data, need to erase in large blocks before writing, can't write to the same location too often or it wears out - are all hidden by a small (and not very smart, in our case) controller. The kernel sees a block device that it can use like a mechanical hard drive.
LetMeKnow said:
Another method is to use the lagfix manually once a week or more frequently...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This depends how much data is written and how much space is free. If you have 10 GB free and you run lagfix once, you won't benefit from running it again until after 10 GB have been written to flash. Random writes cost more than their real size (see above, overwrites must be simulated by rewriting larger blocks), sequential writes translate to about their actual size written to flash.

_that said:
Mostly correct.
It's the controller in the eMMC that does that. The peculiarities of flash memory - no way to directly overwrite data, need to erase in large blocks before writing, can't write to the same location too often or it wears out - are all hidden by a small (and not very smart, in our case) controller. The kernel sees a block device that it can use like a mechanical hard drive.
This depends how much data is written and how much space is free. If you have 10 GB free and you run lagfix once, you won't benefit from running it again until after 10 GB have been written to flash. Random writes cost more than their real size (see above, overwrites must be simulated by rewriting larger blocks), sequential writes translate to about their actual size written to flash.
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Click to collapse
Thanks _that for sharing the information and time...:good:
I take the mostly correct and hate the least incorrect....:crying: Every time I talk to you. It seems like there is a language barrier. Oh yeah, it is called an Android language, hehe... I will loose a few days researching and trying to understand what you are saying...:silly: However, I feel like that I understand android a bit more in the end and thanks for that....
Now it is time for me to bang my head on the keyboard for the next few days...:crying:

Thanks for the insightful information guys, you are frickin awesome! . I thought the lagfix app was removed from CROMI, since the trim function was no longer needed after 4.2. I might be wrong about this, but in any case I have LagFix premium which can trim partitions on a schedule, and I take it that it doesn't do any harm at least?

vonVaffel said:
Thanks for the insightful information guys, you are frickin awesome! . I thought the lagfix app was removed from CROMI, since the trim function was no longer needed after 4.2. I might be wrong about this, but in any case I have LagFix premium which can trim partitions on a schedule, and I take it that it doesn't do any harm at least?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally like the "discard" mounting option on Cromi x.. It is just my personal preference...:laugh: I don't recall that the lagfix was a problem for me but I heard some issued stories about it but could not remember now, sorry...

vonVaffel said:
Thanks for the insightful information guys, you are frickin awesome! . I thought the lagfix app was removed from CROMI, since the trim function was no longer needed after 4.2. I might be wrong about this, but in any case I have LagFix premium which can trim partitions on a schedule, and I take it that it doesn't do any harm at least?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CROMI is based off ASUS' stock firmware, hence it is still Android 4.2.1 (and will likely stay that way forever since ASUS does not update the tf700 anymore). As TRIM is only available in Android 4.3 onward, Lagfix is still a relevant. As far as I know, some people reported data corruption from using Lagfix, but I personally haven't had any issue. Your mileage may vary though.
As for performance degradation, I am also quite interested in knowing why. One of the key strength of Linux over Windows is that Linux does not have this performance degradation over time and most Linux users will happily attest to this statement. Apparently, Google has somehow removed that strength when they made Android. Many people who choose iOS over Android will also cite this performance degradation as a factor since iOS does not suffer from this problem as well, if at all. At this point, I am just going to blame Dalvik VM for all this inefficiency. If you look at Windows Phone 8 (made by the same company that brought you Windows) and iOS, both run native machine code instead of a virtual machine and they don't have any drop in performance over time. Practically, a HTC HD7 with WP7 can still compete with current Android handsets in terms of UI smoothness and exhibit no stuttering nonewhatsoever, except when you started using intensive apps, but that is definitely a hardware limitation.

huy_lonewolf said:
As TRIM is only available in Android 4.3 onward, Lagfix is still a relevant.
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Click to collapse
"Trim" is a kernel feature and is activated by using the ext4 mount option "discard", which has been in the kernel since 2010.

Expanding a bit on the issue at hand, I'm curious about two types of apps:
First one is twilight. It's much like the f.lux or redshift program for PCs making the screen red at nighttime, so that falling asleep is supposedly easier. Now I enjoy using this on any type of screen I'm in front of after dark, but the downside to this is that it makes both my tablet and phone really laggy. My phone (i9300) isn't as affected by the performance as the tf700 is, but I wonder why this sort of app slows the device down?
Second app is SwiftKey. I love this keyboard app for its functionality and its predictions. However not being a native English speaker, I also write a lot of Norwegian so I have two word lists installed. My issue is that the keyboard seems slow and sluggish in its response, and sometimes it takes forever to actually write something down. Is this related to using two dictionares instead of one? I really love this app and would like to keep on using it, as no other keyboard seems as good to me.

vonVaffel said:
Expanding a bit on the issue at hand, I'm curious about two types of apps:
First one is twilight. It's much like the f.lux or redshift program for PCs making the screen red at nighttime, so that falling asleep is supposedly easier. Now I enjoy using this on any type of screen I'm in front of after dark, but the downside to this is that it makes both my tablet and phone really laggy. My phone (i9300) isn't as affected by the performance as the tf700 is, but I wonder why this sort of app slows the device down?
Second app is SwiftKey. I love this keyboard app for its functionality and its predictions. However not being a native English speaker, I also write a lot of Norwegian so I have two word lists installed. My issue is that the keyboard seems slow and sluggish in its response, and sometimes it takes forever to actually write something down. Is this related to using two dictionares instead of one? I really love this app and would like to keep on using it, as no other keyboard seems as good to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also use f.lux on all our laptops. Never heard of twillight. I highly recommend and have used Lux Dash (location based sunset setting etc) for what seems like forever on Kindle Fire, Note, Note 2 and TF700 and it can even dim down to pretty much all black if you want it to. I never experienced any slow-down because of it on the Infinity.
Just last week I read about two apps that slow down the posters Infinity and one of them was Swiftkey and there was no mention of your dual language setting and I suspect it's not a dual language issue. I've used Danish & English (and briefly Spanish for Duolingo app so 3 at the same time) and also noticed it being very unresponsive, but haven't noticed any diffence with 1, 2, or 3 languages. Now it solely resides on my Note 2. Should be easy to test though, just by disabling one language and see if it makes a difference.
I can't remember what the other app was though. It was some post or article about lowering RAM usage by, among other things, using Titanium to change certain downloadable system apps (Gmail, Dropbox etc) into user apps and then using Greenify. Hopefully Greenify will work on this new Cromi-KK ROM I just installed, but that's on tomorrow's To Do List. Note: Greenify can only do system apps (paid version) with Xposed installer and Xposed doesn't work with KitKat.
Hope that was somewhat useful and not a complete waste of your time :silly:

Not sure if I need to create a new thread, or post here, but I'm at a loss. I feel like I've wasted a ton of money on this thing. I bought the TF700 over the Galaxy 10.1 thinking it had better specs and was going to be a great product from ASUS. First problem I had was "phantom touches" and had to send it in for repair. Now it's utterly useless. It SUPER slow, so slow that I'd rather throw it in the trash than deal with it. I've tried Clean Master, but it never seemed to help performance. I installed CROMBI-kk and it's still has poor performance. I've set the wallpaper to black (none), removed all widgets, and installed maybe 2 apps so far. I also tried LagFix but it says it doesn't have permission to modify the directories (or something like that). I've ensured that Root is enabled under Developer Options.
My old Incredible (v1) runs better than this. I really don't know what to do. It's very frustrating. I even wasted the money on the keyboard attachment but in combination with the lag, I can't even bear to use it. I downloaded 2048 and swipes are slow, and once the tiles move, sometimes it takes a couple of seconds for the numbers to merge.
Is there ANYTHING I can do? I've looked through the suggestions. Am I missing something? Does EVERYONE have this problem with their TF700? I wrote ASUS about it and basically said "since you unlocked the device, we would have to replace the mainboard for $300 (parts + labor) in order to undergo any out-of-warranty diagnostics." The only reason I unlocked it was because I've heard that the performance problems were due to the ASUS software, so I thought installing a custom ROM would be the answer to my problem.
Any idea if this is a hardware issue, or something that can be fixed in the software?

briandichiara said:
Not sure if I need to create a new thread, or post here, but I'm at a loss. I feel like I've wasted a ton of money on this thing. I bought the TF700 over the Galaxy 10.1 thinking it had better specs and was going to be a great product from ASUS. First problem I had was "phantom touches" and had to send it in for repair. Now it's utterly useless. It SUPER slow, so slow that I'd rather throw it in the trash than deal with it. I've tried Clean Master, but it never seemed to help performance. I installed CROMBI-kk and it's still has poor performance. I've set the wallpaper to black (none), removed all widgets, and installed maybe 2 apps so far. I also tried LagFix but it says it doesn't have permission to modify the directories (or something like that). I've ensured that Root is enabled under Developer Options.
My old Incredible (v1) runs better than this. I really don't know what to do. It's very frustrating. I even wasted the money on the keyboard attachment but in combination with the lag, I can't even bear to use it. I downloaded 2048 and swipes are slow, and once the tiles move, sometimes it takes a couple of seconds for the numbers to merge.
Is there ANYTHING I can do? I've looked through the suggestions. Am I missing something? Does EVERYONE have this problem with their TF700? I wrote ASUS about it and basically said "since you unlocked the device, we would have to replace the mainboard for $300 (parts + labor) in order to undergo any out-of-warranty diagnostics." The only reason I unlocked it was because I've heard that the performance problems were due to the ASUS software, so I thought installing a custom ROM would be the answer to my problem.
Any idea if this is a hardware issue, or something that can be fixed in the software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something is not right mate.
Confirm what boot loader you are on please, which recovery and how you updated the ROM then we can get you setup so experience your tab like never before

sbdags said:
Something is not right mate.
Confirm what boot loader you are on please, which recovery and how you updated the ROM then we can get you setup so experience your tab like never before
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I followed the instructions in the thread, using twrp-2.6.3-that3_Signed.zip and cm-11.0-20140322-CROMBikk4.4.2-tf700t_Signed.zip. I had already unlocked it a while back with the intention of installing a ROM but never did until yesterday, But I had TWRP 2.3.3.3 installed.
I booted up the tablet, plugged it into the computer, copied over TWRP 2.6.3 (zip) and CROMBI-kk (zip) onto internal storage. Powered down and powered back in into RCK (recovery). First thing I did was an advanced wipe, wiping everything except for the SD card and internal storage. Then installed TWRP from the zip on the storage. Rebooted Recovery. Did the same advanced wipe (x2), then installed the CROMBI zip from within recovery, pretty much leaving all the defaults for the install except for I chose Google Experience Launcher (not sure why, never tried it I guess). That's pretty much it. It installed fine, didn't seem to have any errors or anything odd. Booted up fine, went through the setup process on first boot. Setup 1 Google Account, and installed a few apps (mainly just Chrome and 2048). Other apps installed by ROM were: AdAway, Google+ (for auto-backup), Maps, Hangouts, and I installed SwiftKey. Most everything else seems to be stock.
As far as bootloader, not really sure. When I do the volume-down+power boot, I see Key driver not found.. Android cardhu-user bootloader (1.00 e) released by "US_epad-10.6.1.14.8-20130514" A03. I can get into Terminal Command from TWRP so if I need to run any commands to find out any information, let me know.
Thanks for your response and willingness to help!

briandichiara said:
I followed the instructions in the thread, using twrp-2.6.3-that3_Signed.zip and cm-11.0-20140322-CROMBikk4.4.2-tf700t_Signed.zip. I had already unlocked it a while back with the intention of installing a ROM but never did until yesterday, But I had TWRP 2.3.3.3 installed.
I booted up the tablet, plugged it into the computer, copied over TWRP 2.6.3 (zip) and CROMBI-kk (zip) onto internal storage. Powered down and powered back in into RCK (recovery). First thing I did was an advanced wipe, wiping everything except for the SD card and internal storage. Then installed TWRP from the zip on the storage. Rebooted Recovery. Did the same advanced wipe (x2), then installed the CROMBI zip from within recovery, pretty much leaving all the defaults for the install except for I chose Google Experience Launcher (not sure why, never tried it I guess). That's pretty much it. It installed fine, didn't seem to have any errors or anything odd. Booted up fine, went through the setup process on first boot. Setup 1 Google Account, and installed a few apps (mainly just Chrome and 2048). Other apps installed by ROM were: AdAway, Google+ (for auto-backup), Maps, Hangouts, and I installed SwiftKey. Most everything else seems to be stock.
As far as bootloader, not really sure. When I do the volume-down+power boot, I see Key driver not found.. Android cardhu-user bootloader (1.00 e) released by "US_epad-10.6.1.14.8-20130514" A03. I can get into Terminal Command from TWRP so if I need to run any commands to find out any information, let me know.
Thanks for your response and willingness to help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK I don't quite understand your advanced wipe decisions. Also what is 2048?
You need to make sure you are at least wiping /data. It may be worth loading CROMBi-kk to microsd and doing a full format on internal which will do data and the whole internal sd - it'll take about 90 mins+ so nmake sure you have enough juice.
The will eliminate any remnants and left overs.
Your bootloader *should* be fine although it is slightly old as the latest one is 10.6.1.14.10 but I don't think that causes any issues. Also make sure you choose _that's kernel in the installer and it doesn't hurt to disable journaling, disable fsync and enable the 2 GPU options.
Finally after it boots go to settings, about tablet and click the build number 7 times to enable developer settings. Then go into developer settings, enable power menu, root and set your 3 animation settings to 0.5x or zero. Last but not least change the runtime from dalvik to art and then let it reboot.
Let it settle. How does it feel now?

sbdags said:
OK I don't quite understand your advanced wipe decisions. Also what is 2048?
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Click to collapse
In the past, I've read to do multiple wipes, but the items I'm wiping should be all except the SD_CARD and Internal Storage. 2048 is a little number game: http://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/ (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digiplex.game)
sbdags said:
You need to make sure you are at least wiping /data. It may be worth loading CROMBi-kk to microsd and doing a full format on internal which will do data and the whole internal sd - it'll take about 90 mins+ so nmake sure you have enough juice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I get some free time, I'll come back and give this a shot. Thanks for all your help.
sbdags said:
Your bootloader *should* be fine although it is slightly old as the latest one is 10.6.1.14.10 but I don't think that causes any issues. Also make sure you choose _that's kernel in the installer and it doesn't hurt to disable journaling, disable fsync and enable the 2 GPU options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll make a note of this as well when I go back through this. I'm not sure where I had the choice of kernel in the installer, but I'll make sure I choose _that's. I don't know what those other options are, but again, will keep an eye out for them.
sbdags said:
Finally after it boots go to settings, about tablet and click the build number 7 times to enable developer settings. Then go into developer settings, enable power menu, root and set your 3 animation settings to 0.5x or zero. Last but not least change the runtime from dalvik to art and then let it reboot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for all this information. When I get some time, I'll give these steps a shot and hopefully be much happier with my tablet. Thanks again!