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Why are MOST windows apps so unaesthetically pleasing. (ugly)

Hello
This is not trying to insult anybody on this forum, but i would like to know,
Why it is that on Devices such as Iphone/Android, the apps look good, and are smooth, whereas on windowsmobile they often end up being ugly .
Obviously some are great on windows mobile, and run flawlessly,
however the majority of apps on the internet are unpleasing.
Take for example, towers of hanoi.
I know most will hate the game but oh well.
On the iphone, there are a few apps for towers of hanoi, this being an example
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Now here is the best one available for windows, NOTING IT IS A PAID APP COSTING £6.84
millions of apps are like this, where there is not a satisfactory wm6 equivilant. this is only 1 app i came across in day to day life .
Saying that, most inventive games on iphone dont even have a wm6 equivilant, satisfactory or not.
Please note, i do realize millions of useful apps not available on other platforms are available on wm6, TF3D etc.
However to me ,I am getting annoyed with the lack of nice games for wm6.
Will this change when the windows marketplace is opened properly?

Maybe because WM is designed mainly to be practical? If anyone wants to see gorgeous landscapes simply copy photos of 'em to your phone and view them, on, for example a VGA screen which is incomparable to ****ty HVGA overiszed iPhones screen.
Want more games? Get yourself an emulator, for example SmartGear. It is paid, but (nearly) everything in iphone's app store is paid. After you get the emulator to work you get hundreds of games with excellent playability. But if you want inventions like:
a) pressing onscreen buttons and blowing into the mic to make sound
b) unlocking the screen by removing the simulated fog by your finger
c) game which is clever because its objective is to... press a button! yeah! The longer the better!
sorry, better get yourself an iPhone. If you managed to get this far and you don't want to kill me... wait for MS to designe the UI in a extra shiny finger friendly manner. Most likely developers will follow it.

I actually think a lot of the apps look nice; they could've been nicer, however, i'd prefer function over "form." Also, one of the reasons they don't look very aesthetically pleasing is becasue a lot are .NET applications so they're just there to deliver what the programs offers.

Because it's more difficult...

Because most apps are written by hobbyist programmers and we're forced to use standard .NET controls.
Programming fancy graphics is incredibly difficult and time consuming.

not that i know anything about applications,,
but having to use .net controls sounds pretty ****.
Its just annoying that android and iphone have applications so far ahead of wm.
I think wm6 needs a complete redesign.
Even wm7 shots look dissapointing.

One problem/strength of WM is that it is available running on a diverse range of hardware which is completely opposite to the i-will-ride-on-my-own-bicycle-only-:babycry: philosophy of iPhone. WM apps are designed keeping all these phones in mind, so to let the app get monetized to the max. iPhone apps have the same hardware, as there is only one iPhone, no choice. They have 3D acceleration, Fast processor etc etc on it, so they design graphics heavy apps that will surely run on their one and only target platform. If you have the money, have an iPhone, and play with the apps, if you dont, just f**k off, thats what apple's philosophy is. If you disagree, tell me an apple phone that comes for the price of HTC GENE.
Apps that are targeted for certain WM phones do run with all the iCandy as possible on that phone. I dont have any exact example right now, but i am sure somebody here will provide if needed.
For example, if an app is designed to run on a HTC Touch Pro 2 exclusively, i m sure you'll see much better interface than the one which is designed to run on as many devices as possible, from the low end HTC Gene to ultra high end TouchPro 2.
I hope this will clear things out a bit for everyone.

Just a few corrections of opinion
First off, whoever thinks that attaching some pretty graphics to the screen in .Net/C# is challenging, you seriously need to take more than an introductory class at a community college. It's not hard, you just have to be willing to find the graphics to use. Animation in WM is certainly more daunting and would be far easier to do if MS would have added WPF to the CF 3.5...
...the abundance of abbreviations in that last line just goes to show that programming is getting too annoying
Anyway, to answer one particular point which everybody else glossed over, is that Android ALSO has a lot of pretty apps like the iPhone (even though people ignore it). What people don't talk about is that android actually has it's own interface mechanism a lot like WPF/XAML which is supposed to be very friendly (I haven't really checked yet, but it seems to be popular).
A lot of people blame it on different devices having such different specs. While that SEEMS like a good argument, everybody who says it is blindly babbling without realizing that in 4-5 years the iPhone and Android phones will ALL BE VGA!!!!! If they aren't VGA, then NOBODY WILL BUY THEM!!!!! Hint hint, that means that both of those platforms will suffer the same problem that WM is "credited" with now.
The different resolution quality (VGA vs QVGA) is little more than a matter of releasing the original graphics in multiple sets. The issue of different resolution dimensions (WVGA vs VGA vs other-weird-boxy-GAs) could actually be handled (in most cases) with a simple bit of programming logic in the OnPaint handler.
Now, my answer to the question.....
Fact is, look at the programming communities of Android and iPhone, they both have a massive amount of open source/dev kit type samples, especially focusing heavily on graphics (especially with the iPhone, which focuses almost exclusively on graphics). WM samples tend to focus heavily on systems programming.
One other issue that exists is that interface programming is historically complicated with low-level programming languages. Apple gets by it using a highly customized and extended form of Objective-C. Android solves it with their xaml-like language which makes building the GUI a lot like writing a web page (loose comparison for the less technically inclined, don't flame me over the inaccuracies). Windows Mobile has the .Net framework, which can be made pretty without too much effort, but it suffers from not being fully integrated with the OS, therefore a lot of apps can be sluggish when written in .Net. The other option is to write in C++, which leads us back to the much more complicated UI programming.
There's your REAL reasons. Most programmers either don't have access to (or awareness of) good samples for a lot of the better graphics tricks, and the rest of them don't want to build something that runs too slow that it's going to get tons of complaints. I think there's one other contributing issue, there's not enough people who are willing to get together and partition out the work. It would only take 5-10 decently skilled graphics programmers to work with the high number of skilled systems programmers on this forum and we could see a nearly limitless number of high quality apps that would blow away anything on any of the competing phones.
As a side note, another thought strikes me....I think a LOT of people are waiting on the Tegra chips to start circulating before they start writing a lot. I know that's had me reluctant to put too much work into a few projects.

Because Apple has a bigger line of programmers.

Two aspects I can think of:
Apple has Steve Jobs, who happens to be educated BIG TIME in User Interface. iPhone is specifically designed (H/W and S/W locking together), so achieving it is easier.
WM (we're talking about WM, right?) is still based on PC / Desktop version, and the GUI (up to XP) doesn't change much. I believe 6.5 brings innovation (as I tested some cooked ROM) in smoothing the GUI. However, as an ex UIQ3 user, I believe, even if WM is intended for many devices (more standardized), MS can learn (and seems to be learning) from UIQ. All theme of UIQ changes a lot (scroll bar, text color, background). While for WM, the standard WM 6.1 theme won't even change the white background when we go to 'Setting' for example ..
Just my 2 cents coming from different world

After reading all this i still do not understand why WM apps, not games, are so ugly looking. People can skin various keyboards, Music Players, creat iPhone looking today screens, skin dial pads, calculators etc. Why not simple make the original app good looking? I'm not talking about animations either. Look how much better looking the dialers people are making compared to the standard dialer that some of our phones have like my Touch pro.
I saw someone on this site made a mobile version of Google Translator tool. Its perfect function wise but it could definitely look better. Someone on Ppcgeeks made a movie searching app called Cinemo. It's not ugly but its not as good looking as the Pre's Fandango app. I'm not talking about the Fandango apps function, just the form.
Look how well Weather Panel themes look & how good iContacts look. Why cant WM users have form & functionality?

charm1718 said:
After reading all this i still do not understand why WM apps, not games, are so ugly looking. People can skin various keyboards, Music Players, creat iPhone looking today screens, skin dial pads, calculators etc. Why not simple make the original app good looking? I'm not talking about animations either. Look how much better looking the dialers people are making compared to the standard dialer that some of our phones have like my Touch pro.
I saw someone on this site made a mobile version of Google Translator tool. Its perfect function wise but it could definitely look better. Someone on Ppcgeeks made a movie searching app called Cinemo. It's not ugly but its not as good looking as the Pre's Fandango app. I'm not talking about the Fandango apps function, just the form.
Look how well Weather Panel themes look & how good iContacts look. Why cant WM users have form & functionality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Standardisation. There are no default "fancy" controls for either MFC or .NET for Windows Mobile like there are for iPhone (and I assume Android).
To make aesthetically pleasing applications for WM requires the programmer to design their own, making each and every application completely different in appearance. These small changes confuse & irrate most users as they can't find what they're looking for, therefore we just use the default controls instead of wasting time on making it pretty.
Secondly, putting graphics onto the screen is all well and good, but you want your app to run on as many resolutions as possible. That means resizing images (ugh) or having a separate image for each resolution making your application larger (ugh).

Blade0rz said:
Standardisation. There are no default "fancy" controls for either MFC or .NET for Windows Mobile like there are for iPhone (and I assume Android).
To make aesthetically pleasing applications for WM requires the programmer to design their own, making each and every application completely different in appearance. These small changes confuse & irrate most users as they can't find what they're looking for, therefore we just use the default controls instead of wasting time on making it pretty.
Secondly, putting graphics onto the screen is all well and good, but you want your app to run on as many resolutions as possible. That means resizing images (ugh) or having a separate image for each resolution making your application larger (ugh).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are all programs skinnable?
I understand that making a program for various resolutions would be tedious but what I dont understand is why do people only make things look good after its seen elsewhwere? Nobody decided to make better looking media player skins until the iPhone came out. This also the same with contacts, dialers & keyboards. If this could have been done before, why wait until someone else does it then copy it?
When I look in Development & Hacking I see apps for specific resolutions. People post asking for different resolutions and someone else might make the changes if they have a device with that resolution. Is there something the developer has to do on his end to make an app skinnable or can they all be skinned?

charm1718 said:
Are all programs skinnable?
I understand that making a program for various resolutions would be tedious but what I dont understand is why do people only make things look good after its seen elsewhwere? Nobody decided to make better looking media player skins until the iPhone came out. This also the same with contacts, dialers & keyboards. If this could have been done before, why wait until someone else does it then copy it?
When I look in Development & Hacking I see apps for specific resolutions. People post asking for different resolutions and someone else might make the changes if they have a device with that resolution. Is there something the developer has to do on his end to make an app skinnable or can they all be skinned?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Skins have to be implemented by the developer. Although, all images that are used within a program have to be stored somewhere (either within the program itself or on your device) so those images can be found & replaced as many people on this board do. This does take some knowledge though.
And the reason people only came out with nice-looking interfaces after the iPhone is because it was innovative. It's a lot easier to copy an interface than it is to pick a design out of your brain & implement it from scratch

There's several reasons why WM has a lot of ugliness in its apps.
One is due to the UI itself. Non-fullscreen apps have both a top and bottom bar cluttering the screen and apps are rarely built to "match" the existing bars. The iPhone has less screen real estate taken up by the UI, so developers can control the look a bit more. Also, as I understand it, WM offers uglier barebones formatting. The iPhone gives devs access to prettier standard controls, menus, and fonts, whereas WM devs start with ugly and aliased controls and the like.
One reason is due to age -- WM has been around a (relatively) long time and many of the apps you're seeing were designed for devices with weaker visual capabilities and were also designed when the mobile app market was smaller and less competitive, so there was less incentive to make things pretty.
Another reason is due to the fact that a lot of WM apps are made by very amateur developers who simply don't have the training and know-how to pretty things up. WM, as a platform, seems most popular amongst IT workers, geeks, and tweakers. This is why there's tons of powerful, functional apps out there -- but a lot of us geeks don't know much about design. I, unfortunately, know about design but not programming.

I really didn't know who and what to quote, too many thoughts, so I'm just kinda re-reading the page and commenting back as I go. Sorry it's super long
charm1718 said:
Someone on Ppcgeeks made a movie searching app called Cinemo. It's not ugly but its not as good looking as the Pre's Fandango app. I'm not talking about the Fandango apps function, just the form.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You compare the Cinemo app made by a single unpaid developer against a corporately paid group of developers with pre-defined branding, graphics, and an advertising department (read: designers) under Fandango. That's a bit unfair
Ignoring function, most people on here could steal the graphics and duplicate the app's look.
Blade0rz said:
To make aesthetically pleasing applications for WM requires the programmer to design their own, making each and every application completely different in appearance. These small changes confuse & irrate most users as they can't find what they're looking for, therefore we just use the default controls instead of wasting time on making it pretty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is untrue. This is a now ancient viewpoint that's still held from the days of windows 3.x when everybody was tired and confused by the wildly bad interfaces that existed for business apps which took weeks and months to learn basic function. Sure, people want to have SOME consistency with their apps like how to close it or how to find menus, but an easy interface doesn't need to use only basic controls. If this were true, then each of the new mobile os's that come out would have failed since none of their interfaces match the other phones before them. The best designs offer more graphics than text, a more interactive and direct way of achieving tasks, and having as many options without cluttering the screen or adding more taps.
charm1718 said:
...what I dont understand is why do people only make things look good after its seen elsewhwere? Nobody decided to make better looking media player skins until the iPhone came out. This also the same with contacts, dialers & keyboards. If this could have been done before, why wait until someone else does it then copy it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also untrue. Sure, the amount of skinning went way up after the iPhone, there's been skinning on the media player for years. There's also been 3rd party apps that are far more attractive and functional for contacts and keyboards. The reason most people didn't see this is that these were usually paid apps or poorly advertised amidst hundreds of garbage apps on various repositories of shareware trash that people posted for WinMo.
typo said:
One is due to the UI itself. Non-fullscreen apps have both a top and bottom bar cluttering the screen and apps are rarely built to "match" the existing bars. The iPhone has less screen real estate taken up by the UI, so developers can control the look a bit more. Also, as I understand it, WM offers uglier barebones formatting. The iPhone gives devs access to prettier standard controls, menus, and fonts, whereas WM devs start with ugly and aliased controls and the like
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WinMo developers can hide the top and bottom bars fairly easily (especially in .Net), so screen real estate is still available. I think many times we don't because we don't want to take away the legitimate use of those bars. As to the rest of what you said, spot on...the controls are ugly as opposed to the prettier ones built into other OS's. But remember what it was like to move from windows 98 (or 2000) to XP, the same thing will happen as winmo updates it's own UI libraries.
typo said:
Another reason is due to the fact that a lot of WM apps are made by very amateur developers who simply don't have the training and know-how to pretty things up. WM, as a platform, seems most popular amongst IT workers, geeks, and tweakers. This is why there's tons of powerful, functional apps out there -- but a lot of us geeks don't know much about design. I, unfortunately, know about design but not programming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true, since the educated among us were never given serious classes on UI Design or Graphics Programming. The amateurs are stumbling through even a lot of the functional stuff. The hackers are usually good at changing something, but they can't create something new.
You also say something that brings up a subject I've complained about before (and is part of an argument I've made MANY times that we need a full-scale section just for development/programming instead of the single D&H sub-section we have now). There's a lot of people on here that are good at the functional programming. There's also a few (far less) who are good at the graphics programming. There's also a ton of people who are very good at graphic design and photoshop. A LOT of the apps that are released on here have terrible UI's because the people with functional knowledge don't take/have the time to make it pretty while at the same time those with graphic programming skill are wasting weeks trying to make their program functional while it's got a great UI already done. The two types need to work together and we could easily dominate anything ever done for any mobile OS out there.
btw, I want to add my own personal complaint. One of the most performant and potentially best looking API's belongs to OpenGL ES, which is a 3d rendering functionality all of our phones have built into the recent MSM chipsets. The problem is, only some phones have working drivers, and even less have efficient drivers. I would love to use OpenGL ES to write half of the stuff I want to, but I can't do that with any expectation of it being able to run decently on any phone older than the Diamond...and that's just among HTC phones...There's no certainty of any other handset having proper function or speed. This, to me, is one of the biggest setbacks and prevents a lot of devs from aiming high.

Thank you for clearing some things up. It would be great if the programmers and graphic designers could work together on more projects.

charm1718 said:
Thank you for clearing some things up. It would be great if the programmers and graphic designers could work together on more projects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to get all three working together on projects. There's a few people who really know how to build the UI code, and there's a few wildly talented people who can put together graphics.
The thing I'd really like to do is get an organized team of people set up to work on projects, similar to how it would be done in any professional shop. A few guys who know systems/db/back-end coding, a few UI experts, and a few graphic designers. Baring that, at least get a list of people who would offer to join in on projects as they were put together.

speed_pour said:
I'd like to get all three working together on projects. There's a few people who really know how to build the UI code, and there's a few wildly talented people who can put together graphics.
The thing I'd really like to do is get an organized team of people set up to work on projects, similar to how it would be done in any professional shop. A few guys who know systems/db/back-end coding, a few UI experts, and a few graphic designers. Baring that, at least get a list of people who would offer to join in on projects as they were put together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you reached out to anyone & tried putting something like this together?

charm1718 said:
Have you reached out to anyone & tried putting something like this together?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've suggested it once before. For reasons that are too varied to get into right now, I expect that it would run into some complications on this forum.
With my current constraints (lack of gainful employment), I'm reluctant to get too deeply involved in organizing such a project unless it had the potential of turning profits. I do see a lot of potential in forming a group that produced both freeware/open source apps along with some commercial apps...I would be happy to be involved in that venture. If any serious developers are interested in a project like this, I would certainly find the time to organize and also be a developer.

Support "CLEAN ANDROID"

Hello all,
I'm sure that all of Android users has noticed, how the changes made by producers (e.g. HTC, Samsung) can significantly SLOW down or even make Android UNSTABLE. Please support my suggestion to leave these changes OPTIONAL (e.g. after the first start and after hard-reset - installation package could be on the phone so there wouldn't be need to connect to internet and download it) NOT FORCED:
http://goo.gl/mod/ulXo
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bkf1 said:
Hello all,
I'm sure that all of Android users has noticed, how the changes made by producers (e.g. HTC, Samsung) can significantly SLOW down or even make Android UNSTABLE. Please support my suggestion to DISALLOW these changes and leave it OPTIONAL NOT FORCED by producers:
http://productideas.appspot.com/#11...1NTYxOTg2NTI3YjYzN2E0ODU3MzY5ZTBkNDJkMzMxY2MM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thumbing it down because if you want to seriously put forth an idea that big you should do it in a professional manner. Not 3 exclamation points here and yelling in all caps there and a number of blatantly misspelled words.

You do have a choice.
If you don't like the interface, don't buy the device.

Totally agree that these bloatware skins should be an optional componant! Microsoft have done the right thing for now in making manufacturers release their WP7 devices without these annoying extras.
I want the stock Android experience and nothing more, which is why i own a Nexus.

You can't disallow it, Android is open source right? They can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Sent from my Legend using XDA App

MaBlo said:
You can't disallow it, Android is open source right? They can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Sent from my Legend using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pretty much rules out every single Android device on the market and as such is NOT a solution
A skin can be added far more easily than it can be subtracted!

MaBlo said:
You can't disallow it, Android is open source right? They can do whatever they want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That IS NOT TRUE!!! Google NEVER allow producers to do whatever they want even it is open-source (except china producers ). Producers MUST fulfil Google basic "rules". It has been also said in MWC Barcelona by Eric Schmidt.
MaBlo said:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clever solution :-/

bkf1 said:
That IS NOT TRUE!!! Google NEVER allow producers to do whatever they want even it is open-source (except china producers ). Producers MUST fulfil Google basic "rules". It has been also said in MWC Barcelona by Eric Schmidt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure they have some rules and conditions, I think these regard the Google apps. However I'm not really into this licenseing stuff. All I know is that Android is under the Apache and GPL licenses, and those are open source. Maybe someone with more knowledge can fill us in. I'm not liking this either, but I don't think there is much to be done about it.
Sent from my Legend using XDA App

As far as I know I have read maybe a year ago something about Google considering how/when/if allow producers to make changes to Android. The best way in my opinion would be choose after unboxing or hard-reset.
BTW I don't expect Google to change policy tomorrow... I'm just curious about reactions of YOU - Android users ;o)

It's a nice idea and I'm pretty sure that in a perfect war and disease-free world it may actually be possible, but alas we don't live in one. Right now you would need a revolution, comparable to a huge coup d'etat, in order to actually do something about this. And the "If you don't like it, don't buy it." argument is actually applicable here, because THERE ARE devices without a limiting, resource-leech interface (the Nexuses are a perfect example).

htrx said:
Right now you would need a revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not interested in revolutions or something like that (it smels like Apple ). I'm just interested about discussions & reactions about it ;-)
htrx said:
the "If you don't like it, don't buy it." argument is actually applicable here, because THERE ARE devices without a limiting, resource-leech interface (the Nexuses are a perfect example).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only two devices in the whole world? That is the solution? That is the choice? That is the freedom of buying anythig you have money for?

Yeah that's what we have to choose from, besides custom roms. But keep in mind that we here at xda aren't normal users. Normal users(and by that I mean the majority) are perfectly happy with HTC Sense or even Motoblur. Hell these customizations might even sell phones, I'm pretty sure Sense does at least.
Sent from my Legend using XDA App

But these normal users are curious about e.g "why is USB-Connected icon still on my display even I have disconnected the device" and experienced user will tell this normal user "yeah that is because of producer customizations" and normal user say "I don't like these customizations, I just want my phone working"... this problem is just an example and there are MANY other bigger issues e.g. PERFORMANCE issues and believe me even normal user will eventually meet someone, who will explain that producers customizations are evil or he/she would read an article on the web about performance problem caused by producers customizations... Many times normal users can find it out by themselves => don't underestimate "normal" users!

bkf1 said:
I'm not interested in revolutions or something like that (it smels like Apple ). I'm just interested about discussions & reactions about it ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I'm saying just how utterly hard to achieve is your dream.
bkf1 said:
But these normal users are curious about e.g "why is USB-Connected icon still on my display even I have disconnected the device" and experienced user will tell this normal user "yeah that is because of producer customizations" and normal user say "I don't like these customizations, I just want my phone working"... this problem is just an example and there are MANY other bigger issues e.g. PERFORMANCE issues and believe me even normal user will eventually meet someone, who will explain that producers customizations are evil or he/she would read an article on the web about performance problem caused by producers customizations... Many times normal users can find it out by themselves => don't underestimate "normal" users!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When these "normal"/"casual" users stumble on an error, caused by a crappy producer's customization, they either try to fix it, or send it to someone, who actually knows what he is doing. If the error turns out to be "genetically unfixable", they search for another, more stable device. At least 80% percent of the time, this substitution turns out to be the iPhone. This is one of the main reasons the iPhone is still prefered by "casual" users over Android and Windows Mobile.
Android, being open-source is bound to have producers, trying to make it better and more user-friendly. You can't change that.

htrx said:
It's a nice idea and I'm pretty sure that in a perfect war and disease-free world it may actually be possible, but alas we don't live in one. Right now you would need a revolution, comparable to a huge coup d'etat, in order to actually do something about this. And the "If you don't like it, don't buy it." argument is actually applicable here, because THERE ARE devices without a limiting, resource-leech interface (the Nexuses are a perfect example).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexii are the ONLY example.

I hate when this kind of things happen.

htrx said:
Android, being open-source is bound to have producers, trying to make it better and more user-friendly. You can't change that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the question IF (or how long) Google let the producers put a dirt on the Android. Like MS with Windows Mobile.

The saddest thing is that we get crippled phones just because operators don't want us to get features. The DMCA takedown on Xoom dumps is just pathetic.
Also I love the HTC Sense. But if I want it gone, I will just install a Nexus ROM.
And Moto phones... They actually blocked non-market apps. Moto is replacing Microsoft in my 1984 companies list (Ironically)

BTW there is no need to DISALLOW producers their customizations. Google can only make policy to leave option to the user on the first start So any user can choose to install all producers customizations OR leave Android clean and if user desides to try the customizations so there can be option to install it additionally. It is only on Google and I'm sure, that if Google wants Android to have a good name they will make policy to leave options on users or even forbid all customizations (but this would be bad to forbid it completelly). My guess is that Google will restrict customizations only on some not-system-necessary parts like wallpapers, skins etc. We will see but I think that Google knows that producers customizations were between other things fundamentally responsible for doom of Windows Mobile.

bkf1 said:
Hello all,
I'm sure that all of Android users has noticed, how the changes made by producers (e.g. HTC, Samsung) can significantly SLOW down or even make Android UNSTABLE. Please support my suggestion to DISALLOW these changes and leave it OPTIONAL NOT FORCED by producers:
http://productideas.appspot.com/#11...1NTYxOTg2NTI3YjYzN2E0ODU3MzY5ZTBkNDJkMzMxY2MM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Methinks you fail to discern what Open Source means

Will it ever be possible for Android to be as smooth IOS?

Given the way android is built is it technically possible to make android buttery smooth like ios? I read that article about that google engineer saying that it will never be, but several people disputed his points.

Fasty12 said:
Given the way android is built is it technically possible to make android buttery smooth like ios? I read that article about that google engineer saying that it will never be, but several people disputed his points.
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From my experience, my gs2 is extremely smooth. If you want close to ios, you should try miui. They are the best roms for extreme smoothness.
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Sure
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium

Thing is, iOS is a Operating system created for only 2 devices. The developers working on it have one focus only, making the iPhone and iPad work great.
Android instead has the power but to run on thousands of devices from any brand, any size, any CPU and other specifications.
Now knowing this, ask the question again:
Quote: is it technically possible to make android buttery smooth like ios?
No, but god bless you it's fast for it's great power. iOS might be 0.5ms faster or w/e people have tested, but you won't have such amazing results close to the Android, ever!
People say iOS is better and faster, I say that there phone looks just like 5 million other people's phone. Mine doesn't!
'nuff said

So the answer is no? Lolz
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Actually one if the main things for apple is that the user interface is a real time priority where android is not. Android is a much better os.
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I'm using an LG Optimus One. I'll take a little delay here and there in the GUI over buying an otherwise expensive and over-rated iPhone.

bambu85 said:
I'm using an LG Optimus One. I'll take a little delay here and there in the GUI over buying an otherwise expensive and over-rated iPhone.
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Well its better. By not assigning a real time priority to the GUI it can load more efficiently
Sent from my HD2 using xda premium

I find MIUI as smooth as IOS. It most likely will depend on your device though.

You have to give a little to get a little. To allow true multi-tasking (not available on the Iphone) you need to distribute the RAM differently. I for one would like to be able to multi task than to see a minimal difference in my FPS...

Waddle said:
From my experience, my gs2 is extremely smooth. If you want close to ios, you should try miui. They are the best roms for extreme smoothness.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
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I'd agree with that. MIUI is unbelievable!

lowandbehold said:
You have to give a little to get a little. To allow true multi-tasking (not available on the Iphone) you need to distribute the RAM differently. I for one would like to be able to multi task than to see a minimal difference in my FPS...
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Click to collapse
What's the difference between Android's multitasking and IOS's multitasking?

springsten said:
What's the difference between Android's multitasking and IOS's multitasking?
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I'm led to believe and have been told iOS' multitasking isn't true multitasking, and more power is put into the interface.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW

My Android (Xperia Arc S) is already as smooth as iOS.
I use Go Launcher Ex, and it's not only as smooth as iOS, it looks WAY better, added to the fact that Android supports true multi-tasking in ALL applications, it's win/win for Android owners.

springsten said:
What's the difference between Android's multitasking and IOS's multitasking?
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Click to collapse
For example on an apple device if you type in a web address in the browser and you switch to another app while it is loading, when you come back to the browser it is where you left it. With android the web address you entered would have loaded. The process is not truely running in the background. So where as in android you can have multiple functions running at once with apple it is more like a placeholder.
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium

No, if you want smooth stick with iOS or WP7. Android has terrible performance, because it's Java based and speed has never been Java's strong suite.

PVTD said:
Thing is, iOS is a Operating system created for only 2 devices. The developers working on it have one focus only, making the iPhone and iPad work great.
Android instead has the power but to run on thousands of devices from any brand, any size, any CPU and other specifications.
Now knowing this, ask the question again:
Quote: is it technically possible to make android buttery smooth like ios?
No, but god bless you it's fast for it's great power. iOS might be 0.5ms faster or w/e people have tested, but you won't have such amazing results close to the Android, ever!
People say iOS is better and faster, I say that there phone looks just like 5 million other people's phone. Mine doesn't!
'nuff said
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And your phone also randomly freezes,reboots and has more malware than those other 5 million.

alex2792 said:
And your phone also randomly freezes,reboots and has more malware than those other 5 million.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Such a small portion of android devices behave this way I am not sure why you keep repeating it. I am on my flyer 3+ hours a day, never freezes, never reboots, and no issues with mallware.
This with a CPU clocked at 1600 (stock is 1500). Now my iPhone on the other hand has constant browser freezes, facebook crashes, and apps force closing. It struggles at times to get out of its own way, and it has like 15 apps installed. And battery since ios 5 is great as long as you do not use it at all. If I make 3 phone calls and send a couple emails it drops over 60% in an 8 hour work day
Sent from my HTC Flyer P510e using xda premium

I find it quite funny that not a single person here can tell why Android's multitasking is "better" than iOS' multitasking, and how it's true multitasking and iOS' is not (Spoiler: It's not).
iOS​
iOS apps can exist in any of five states of execution. These are:
Not Running: The app has been terminated or has not been launched.
Inactive: The app is in the foreground but not receiving events (for example, the user has locked the device with the app active).
Active: The normal state of “in use” for an app.
Background: The app is no longer on-screen but is still executing code.
Suspended: The app is still resident in memory but is not executing code.
When you press the home button, the app moves from Active to Background. Most apps usually then go from Background to Suspended in a matter of seconds. (Suspended apps remain in the device’s memory. This is so they can resume more quickly when you go back to them. They’re not using processor time and they’re not sucking battery power.)
You may think that if an app is resident in memory, you might have to remove it manually in order to conserve memory. But you don’t: iOS does it for you. If you launch a memory-intensive app such as a game, iOS will start to purge Suspended apps from memory and move them to the Not Running state. That is, they will be completely removed from memory and will launch afresh the next time you tap their icon.
Here’s the confusing part: None of these states are reflected in the multitasking bar. That bar always shows a list of recently used apps, regardless of whether they’re in the Background, Suspended, or Not Running states. (You may also have noticed that the app that is currently Active does not appear in the multitasking bar.)
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Android​
A common misunderstanding about Android multitasking is the difference between a process and an application. In Android these are not tightly coupled entities: applications may seem present to the user without an actual process currently running the app; multiple applications may share processes, or one application may make use of multiple processes depending on its needs; the process(es) of an application may be kept around by Android even when that application is not actively doing something.
The fact that you can see an application's process "running" does not mean the application is running or doing anything. It may simply be there because Android needed it at some point, and has decided that it would be best to keep it around in case it needs it again. Likewise, you may leave an application for a little bit and return to it from where you left off, and during that time Android may have needed to get rid of the process for other things.
A key to how Android handles applications in this way is that processes don't shut down cleanly. When the user leaves an application, its process is kept around in the background, allowing it to continue working (for example downloading web pages) if needed, and come immediately to the foreground if the user returns to it. If a device never runs out of memory, then Android will keep all of these processes around, truly leaving all applications "running" all of the time.
Of course, there is a limited amount of memory, and to accommodate this Android must decide when to get rid of processes that are not needed. This leads to Android's process lifecycle, the rules it uses to decide how important each process is and thus the next one that should be dropped. These rules are based on both how important a process is for the user's current experience, as well as how long it has been since the process was last needed by the user.
Once Android determines that it needs to remove a process, it does this brutally, simply force-killing it. The kernel can then immediately reclaim all resources needed by the process, without relying on that application being well written and responsive to a polite request to exit. Allowing the kernel to immediately reclaim application resources makes it a lot easier to avoid serious out of memory situations.
If a user later returns to an application that's been killed, Android needs a way to re-launch it in the same state as it was last seen, to preserve the "all applications are running all of the time" experience. This is done by keeping track of the parts of the application the user is aware of (the Activities), and re-starting them with information about the last state they were seen in. This last state is generated each time the user leaves that part of the application, not when it is killed, so that the kernel can later freely kill it without depending on the application to respond correctly at that point.
In some ways, Android's process management can be seen as a form of swap space: application processes represent a certain amount of in-use memory; when memory is low, some processes can be killed (swapped out); when those processes are needed again, they can be re-started from their last saved state (swapped in).
It is useful to think of an application in Android having three "lifetimes" associated with the preceding diagram and table
The Entire Lifetime: the period between the first call to onCreate() to a single final call to onDestroy(). We may think of this as the time between setting up the initial global state for the app in onCreate() and the release of all resources associated with the app in onDestroy().
The Visible Lifetime: The period between a call to onStart() until a corresponding call to onStop(). Although this is termed the "visible lifetime", the app may not be directly visible and interacting with the user at any one time if it is not in the foreground. The feature that distinguishes this lifetime is that, even if not in the foreground, the app maintains resources such that it can instantaneously return to the foreground.
The Foreground Lifetime: The period between a call to onResume() until a corresponding call to onPause(). During foreground lifetime the activity is in front of all other activities and interacting with the user.
This multitasking capability is part of what makes Android devices quite nimble, with apps often appearing to load and initialize much faster than for the iPhone. However, as with all good things there is a price: the developer must remember that just because you execute a finish() command in your app does not mean that it is no longer running. It is very likely still in the background in a paused or stopped state if the device is not overtaxed for resources. This means that as a programmer you have to be careful that an app not in the foreground is not consuming valuable system resources to no useful end. For example, various features of the device like the GPS or cameras can consume power rapidly, so a poorly written app can lead to very short battery life for the device, and an unhappy user.
Sources:
- Android
- iOS
And while we're at it, here's why Android's UI will never be as smooth as iOS.
"We’ll start off with Google engineer Dianne Hackborn’s post. She states that hardware acceleration – i.e. using the GPU, instead of CPU alone, to render the user-interface – has existed on Android since version 1.0 for things such as sliding the notification bar, pop-up dialogues etc. Full hardware acceleration only came with Android 3.0 Honeycomb and, unsurprisingly, Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich actually has the same kind of hardware acceleration and this won’t necessarily sweeten things up.
Hackborn states that hardware acceleration “is not all full of win” since it takes away a lot of RAM when used for devices like Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus with OpenGL. Each process takes about 8MB of RAM and “isn’t worth it” considering the minimal effect it has on how “smooth” the UI looks after implementing it. So yes, hardware acceleration certainly helps, but it takes far too much processing power for it to be implemented to all parts of the UI.
She ends her post on how full, complete, A-to-Z hardware acceleration that results in 60 frames-per-second graphics is simply not possible, even with powerful chips like the Tegra 2.
Now, the question arises: why is it that even seemingly outdated phones like the iPhone 3GS offer a smoother UI than the latest Android smartphones? iOS uses hardware acceleration and that too on weaker hardware. How does Apple’s engineers manage to pull it off, then? Why can’t Google do the same?
That has been answered by Andrew Munn – software engineering student, ex-intern at Google and future intern with Windows Phone 7 team at Microsoft – who states that UI rendering processes in iOS occur with dedicated threads with real-time priority whereas on Android, UI rendering processes occur along with the main thread with normal priority. Whenever an iOS devices detects touch, it stops other processes and focuses all attention to rendering the UI. Android devices don’t do this, instead general processing and UI rendering occurs concurrently which results in choppy UI."
Source: RedmondPie

LordManhattan said:
I find it quite funny that not a single person here can tell why Android's multitasking is "better" than iOS' multitasking, and how it's true multitasking and iOS' is not (Spoiler: It's not).
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People like to regurgitate FUD and misinformation! Good post LM, a very informative read!

[Android 4.3] [Features] [Discussion] All New stuff are here

Guys,
As Google has released the latest version of Android i.e. JB 4.3. Still we haven't fully aware what does it have.?
So i have collected few information about the same & sharing with you guys. Please help me to share more about the Android 4.3.:highfive:
This thread can be used as General Discussion Thread of Android 4.3.
- Android 4.3 restricted profiles explained
- What is virtual surround sound in Android 4.3?
- Improved photo-spheres will make their way to Android 4.3
- will add as and when receive any new about Android 4.3

Android 4.3 restricted profiles explained
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Android 4.3 might not be the most monumental update to Google’s operating system, but one of the more notable improvements heading our way in Android 4.3 is the upgraded features available in the user profiles section, which was first introduced for tablets in Android 4.2.
Essentially, restricted profiles will allow the device administrator to control exactly what each profile has access to. Google states that restricted profiles are ideal for “friends and family, guest users, kiosks, point-of-sale devices, and more”, so don’t expect to have unfettered access to store demo devices any more.
But the main benefit is definitely going to be seen by families, especially for those who are concerned that their kids could run up an expensive Play Store bill. Restricted profiles will allow concerned parents to turn off access to the Google Play Store or in-app purchases on their child’s profile, whilst keeping full access available for themselves.
The setup process seems simple enough, and is done in much the same way as setting multiple accounts in the older Android 4.2. Heading on over to Settings, then Users, will take you to the screen where you can add new users and edit the permission of existing ones.
From there, various results can be achieved by toggling the on/off options, such as restricted access to certain applications, and some apps have a wider variety of control available via a familiar settings button. This fine tuning allows you to adjust what Settings options can be seen and which apps can be accessed, which is helping if you want to keep the little tykes from messing around with some of Android’s more advanced features.
But the profiles aren’t just about controlling applications, each profile is granted an isolated space with its own local storage, uniquely customized home screen, widgets, and will store various other settings unique to each user, just like with the old user profiles.
What is virtual surround sound in Android 4.3?
Fraunhofer isn’t exactly a household name, but it should be, as the company is responsible for the invention of the ever-so popular MP3 format. But perhaps the company can earn some much deserved recognition with its latest venture, bringing theater quality surround sound to the palm of your hand.
The new Nexus 7 will be the first device to make use of Fraunhofer’s new technology, which will give users a cinema-esque surround sound experience through their headphones, internal stereo speakers, or with an HDMI output to their home theater surround systems. But why is this such a big deal?
You’ve probably noticed, when listening to stuff through your headphones, that although you easily have a sense of left and right panning, it’s very difficult to determine the depth of a sound. In other words, it’s sometimes hard to tell how far in front or behind you that sound originated from, which can ruin the experience when watching a high-quality movie on your tablet.
How it works
The best way to explain the theory and implementation behind this is to imagine a scene in real life. Each source of sound, such as a passing car or your TV, travels a different distance, reflects off different surfaces, and reaches your outer ear at a different angle to every other source nearby. These minor delays, reflections, and frequency differences, created by the shape of our heads and ears, allows our brains to pick out the location of the sound, giving it “depth”.
Cingo essentially creates a “digital space” for multiple sound channels (sources), by applying various digital filters, and other algorithms, to each sound, in order to replicate the experience that our environment creates in the real world. This process is called “binaural audio processing”, which is then combined with more traditional loudness optimization and equalization techniques, such as enhanced bass for headphones, to provide a more optimal listening experience.
Bringing it to Android
From the looks of things, Cingo will be heading to Android in the new 4.3 update, coming pre-installed with the new Nexus 7, and then heading to the Nexus 10, and hopefully other Android devices, once the new update starts rolling out.
Fortunately, Cingo should work will all Android devices which use the High Efficiency AAC (HE-AAC) audio codec, as this is what allows for the management of multiple audio sources on our handheld devices.
However, surround sound will only work with source files that contain multiple audio channels. In other words, we need 5.1 surround sound movies on our devices, it just won’t work with any old video or audio file. Fortunately, Google will be offering feature films through the Google Play Movies & TV service that support HE-ACC Multichannel in the near future.
If you want to know just how awesome surround sound and binaural audio can be, I’ll just leave this video link here for your listening pleasure.
Improved photospheres will make their way to Android 4.3
If photospheres are one of your favorite things about Android Jelly Bean, I’m right there with you. Taking a 360-degree shot is one of the coolest things about Android, and really sets it apart from other cameras on other platforms.
If photospheres are also one of your biggest annoyances with Android Jelly Bean, I’m right there with you. The photos don’t stitch together properly, and they often seem like you took them too fast or slow. It’s great when you get it right, but when you don’t, it’s an embarrassing headache.
Evan Rapoport, a project manager for Google Maps, announced today via a Google+ post that photospheres are greatly improved in Android 4.3. Stitching would be cleaner, and overall clarity will improve.
From the post:
First, alignment and stitching are much better, giving you more level horizons and fewer errors throughout the image. While environments with lots of moving things are always challenging, scenes like the one attached here with a long flat horizon are now much better. Second, we've improved exposure compensation for each individual frame, producing a beautifully exposed photo sphere. You can compare this to the previous versions that produced gray areas and inconsistent coloring in areas of high contrast (near the sun, horizons, buildings against blue sky, etc.).​
Credit:
XDA users
Android Authority
Gsmarena
Phonearena

There are new stuffs not mentioned on the recent press event:
"Faster, Smoother, More Responsive
Android 4.3 builds on the performance improvements already included in Jelly Bean — vsync timing, triple buffering, reduced touch latency, CPU input boost, and hardware-accelerated 2D rendering — and adds new optimizations that make Android even faster.
For a graphics performance boost, the hardware-accelerated 2D renderer now optimizes the stream of drawing commands, transforming it into a more efficient GPU format by rearranging and merging draw operations. For multithreaded processing, the renderer can also now use multithreading across multiple CPU cores to perform certain tasks."
Source:http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html
Do take note that it's the developer page and most changes listed are under the hood stuffs for developers. But yeah we're on xda so..
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Hidden Android 4.3 Jelly Bean codes reveal possible permissions manager and 4K video support in the future​
Earlier this week, Google announced Android 4.3 Jelly Bean and as developers have spent time with it, they have come across hidden features that might be a sign of what could arrive in future iterations of the OS. The folks at AndroidPolice report about two such features, one which lets users control app permissions and the other is 4K video support.
The first feature is called ‘App Ops’, which essentially will allow users to control what settings or information a particular app will have access to. It sounds similar to the granular app controls available on iOS for some time, but the report says that Google’s version of permissions manager is far better.
Additionally, the report also talks about a couple of lines of codes that indicate possible support for XXXHDPI (640ppi) settings and assets in the near future. Now it is unlikely that tablets or smartphones which look good enough on 480ppi displays will get require XXXHDPI support. But it is good to see Google readying itself for next-generation HD displays.
Thanks to AP

[HOWTO]
Android 4.3 permission manager; what it is and how it works.
ndroid 4.3 is out! Even though it’s an incremental update at best, it still brought with it a number of enhancements and features, including support for 4k displays. However, that’s not all Android 4.3 was packing. Underneath the improvements we could see in Android 4.3 was a secret feature that is, for the time being, hidden. Much like the multi-user feature in earlier versions of Android, this hidden feature can only be accessed if you know where to look for it. So what is it exactly? It’s a Permissions Manager.
Okay, here’s some Android 101. When you download an app, the app usually requires permissions. GPS apps need to access your GPS so it can find your location. Most of the time, they make sense. Sometimes, they do not make sense. For instance, Facebook wants to read your call logs. We have no idea why Facebook would want to read your call log, but it does. The idea behind this Permission Manager hidden in Android 4.3 is to give you control over what permissions apps are allowed to have. So if you don’t want Facebook to see your call logs, you can tell it to stop.
As Android Police reports, this hidden feature is actually accessible to anyone who is running Android 4.3. So if you have that lovely update, this is available to you right now. Don’t know how to use it? That’s okay, we’ll tell you. If you have Android 4.3 and you want to try out this permission manager, here’s our how-to.
Step 1 – Have Android 4.3.
Step 2 – Download this application. This app will give you access to what is called “App ops”, which is the Permission Manager.
Step 3 – …
Step 4 – Profit!
I’m in the Android 4.3 Permission Manager. Now what?
That was easier than expected, right? So once you’re in the Permission Manager, you’ll need to know how to use it. The first thing you’ll see is a list of apps and 4 tabs. The tabs are Location, Personal, Messaging, and Device. These organize your apps based on what permissions they use. If you download Google Hangouts, it’s probably in the messaging list. Things like your camera app will likely be in device. You get the idea.
From there, you can select any app on the list. You’ll then be presented by every permission that app uses with a handy on-off switch. From here, you can turn various permissions on and off. Don’t want Facebook to read your call logs? Turn it off! Don’t want it to know where you are? Turn off the location permission. Keep in mind that the app will still work, it just won’t be able to do those things. So if you, for instance, check into places over Facebook, turning off the location permissions will likely make that feature much more difficult to use.
The last thing we’ll talk about is what the Permission Manager can see. As Ron Amadeo reports, some permissions don’t even show up until you use them in the app. In his example, the “Camera” and “read call log” permissions didn’t even show up until he imported his contacts into Facebook and then posted something with his camera. So keep in mind if you try it out, you may have to fiddle with the app a little bit to get all the permissions to show up.
Lastly, as you can probably imagine, this isn’t a fully working feature yet. While something simple like disabling “read call log” won’t do much of anything, other permissions in other apps can. If you disable the Camera permission in your camera app, your camera app will cease to function properly. If you disable Location in Google Maps, it won’t be able to find you in order to give you directions. There is a reason this is a hidden feature and that is because it is not ready yet. So if you do use the Permission Manager, you do so at your own risk.
Standard boilerplate aside, is there anyone who will be checking this functionality out? Or would you rather wait until it’s a live feature? If you want to discuss it, feel free to do so in our comment section.

So what other security enhancements does Google have in store for Android 4.3?
So what other security enhancements does Google have in store for Android 4.3?
We are glad you asked. According to JR Raphael, Google has been working on these security features for years. We’ll do a quick breakdown.
Starting with Android 4.2, there was a feature called Verify Apps that was added. This scans phones both downloaded and side-loaded to make sure they didn’t contain malware or pose a threat.
Verify Apps was eventually made available to all devices from 2.3 onward. According to JR Raphael, that’s 95% of Android devices running currently.
This now works in tandem with another older feature, the app scanner in the Google Play Store that scans apps as they’re submitted to Google Play to make sure they aren’t malicious. This is why you can always download from Google Play without worries.
All of these features are currently on Android devices right now.
But wait, there’s more. In Android 4.3 specifically, they have added yet another security feature called SELinux. This stands for Security-Enhanced Linux and it essentially keeps the important parts of your phone safe. Most notably the operating system. So there is protection everywhere.
Thanks to AP

https://plus.google.com/114519877662741226877/posts/Eay4Y5ikYcc
This is not written anywhere but JBQ was the one mentioned it.
Sent using GT-i9505~

override182 said:
https://plus.google.com/114519877662741226877/posts/Eay4Y5ikYcc
This is not written anywhere but JBQ was the one mentioned it.
Sent using GT-i9505~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the significant performance boost in 4.3 is probably bec. of this:
The new Nexus 7 (2013) with Android 4.3 includes support for fstrim, essentially idle garbage collection, which TRIMs the eMMC when a few conditions are met – the device is idle, screen off, and battery above roughly 70-percent. I’m told that TRIM support has been part of the eMMC standard since around version 4.2, it was just a matter of enabling it in software. The result is that the new Nexus 7 shouldn’t have these aging affects at all. Better yet, fstrim support has also been added to the old Nexus 7 with as of the Android 4.3 update, so if you’ve got a Nexus 7 that feels slow, I/O performance should get better after fstrim runs in the background. I'm checking on whether the other Nexus devices have also had TRIM support added. I would consider the slow storage aging problem fixed as of now, and Google took the eMMC and storage I/O performance issues with the previous Nexus 7 to heart for this version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7176/nexus-7-2013-mini-review/4
Review was about the 2013 Nexus 7 but the TRIM support is not just for that device but probably 4.3 itself. I have a Galaxy Nexus as well but haven't had the time to update it(wife has it), based on user feedbacks that I've been reading from the Gnex forums, 4.3 made it like it's JB 4.1.2 again and if you have a galaxy nexus you'll know that 4.2 made the device lag at some point. Having tested 4.3 leaks for about a day on the S4 I'm starting to think that the update really made significant boost in performance and definitely not placebo :good:

Thanks for all of the information
One thing is bugging me though.. I created a user profile and switched to it. Later I am not able to go back to the primary profile.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

debnath said:
Thanks for all of the information
One thing is bugging me though.. I created a user profile and switched to it. Later I am not able to go back to the primary profile.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is App OPS only available in Google Play edition on the HTC One?
Because I have 4.3 Dev edition and cant seem to find activities in the settings menu.

Would Unity be the best for myself? Or another route?

Hello,
I've been doing some research on the many, many different routes I can go with Android development, and I'm hoping someone might be able to help narrow down my choice. My experience is currently web related, PHP/HTML/CSS, with knowledge of intermediate Javascript, etc.
I'd like to create a very similar game to Football Manager, but less ambitious. For those that aren't aware, it's a simulation game where you're the manager of a soccer team.
My ambition is to keep it very simple, dumbed down. No need to watch the games, pretty much all text with simple graphics for some things.
My issue is, trying to find a place to start. There's literally a lot of different routes, and I'm overwhelmed. Do I use HTML5? Java? One of the programs like Unity, Construct? PhoneGap?
For my specific game, and idea, what would be your best suggestion on what to use?
Thanks in advance.

you can try CocoonJS. it's easy.
It's html5 fraemwork.
CocoonJS is a technology that helps HTML5 developers publish their web-based games and apps in the most important mobile and web stores with no code changes and with all the advantages of native development.
Using CocoonJS, a single code base is enough to publish a game or app natively on more than 10 stores. Best of all, with no installations thanks to our cloud-based platform.
HTML5 is finally ready for cross-platform app and game development!
Learn more: http://ludei.com
But now it's in open beta.
All free, but all Extension only for premium users.
Premium account granted for free, if you have nice idia/project.

The answer is "it depends"
A couple of questions...
1. Will it only be for Android? or are you also planning to push it to iPhone?
2. Will the interface be more like a app (eg. gmail, calendar, utility apps) or more like a game (immersive, completely different interface) ?
3. Will there be a lot of interaction? or mainly consuming information?

pyko said:
The answer is "it depends"
A couple of questions...
1. Will it only be for Android? or are you also planning to push it to iPhone?
2. Will the interface be more like a app (eg. gmail, calendar, utility apps) or more like a game (immersive, completely different interface) ?
3. Will there be a lot of interaction? or mainly consuming information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Android to start, possibility of iPhone in the future.
2. Straight forward, more like an app, nothing too pretty, more statistical.
3. Mainly consuming information, lots of behind the scenes work.

In that case, I would say go for a mobile friendly web-based app, as opposed to a native app. So this would mean HTML/CSS/JavaScript.
Reasons are:
You want to eventually be on both Android and iPhone. Since you're app is more "app like" if you go native, you'll essentially have to write 2 separate apps to have good user experience (Android and iPhone have vastly different experience guidelines). WIth a mobile-friendly website, you'll satisfy both with one code base
You've already got experience in HTML/CSS/Javascript - definitely a big win!
Since your app will mainly be information consumption, it sounds suitable for a website.
When done correctly, a mobile-friendly website can still be a great experience to use
A couple of things to be aware of...
Don't try and imitate the native UI on the mobile-friendly website. It is a website, not a native app! Users are fine if it doesn't behave like a native app (afterall, they would've just reached your site via the browser). In fact, if you make the website behave sorta like a native app, it might confuse users more. Best direction is to have a good, solid ,easy to use and understand UI. (Be wary of the Uncanny Valley)
Unlike laptops/desktops, mobiles generally are less powerful, so you'll need/want to optimise performance. Make sure the website runs fast & smoothly (ie. optimise resource downloading, minimise/optimise javascript animations etc). Be aware that most phones have a 'click delay' (to detect swipes/drags etc) so you'll want to use something like fastclick to eliminate this.
Remember that on a mobile device your user will be using their fingers (and not a mouse) to click/interact with your website. So make sure tap targets are nice and large.
Finally .... test on a real device! Chrome dev tools etc to simulate phone screens is great for dev, but actually using your website on a mobile will reveal many design decisions that might need to change.
This might sound like a lot to think about, but I think given what you've said about your idea, in the long run, it will be more time efficient. (there is probably a equally long list of things to think about when developing a native app!)
Good luck with your idea

pyko said:
In that case, I would say go for a mobile friendly web-based app, as opposed to a native app. So this would mean HTML/CSS/JavaScript.
Reasons are:
You want to eventually be on both Android and iPhone. Since you're app is more "app like" if you go native, you'll essentially have to write 2 separate apps to have good user experience (Android and iPhone have vastly different experience guidelines). WIth a mobile-friendly website, you'll satisfy both with one code base
You've already got experience in HTML/CSS/Javascript - definitely a big win!
Since your app will mainly be information consumption, it sounds suitable for a website.
When done correctly, a mobile-friendly website can still be a great experience to use
A couple of things to be aware of...
Don't try and imitate the native UI on the mobile-friendly website. It is a website, not a native app! Users are fine if it doesn't behave like a native app (afterall, they would've just reached your site via the browser). In fact, if you make the website behave sorta like a native app, it might confuse users more. Best direction is to have a good, solid ,easy to use and understand UI. (Be wary of the Uncanny Valley)
Unlike laptops/desktops, mobiles generally are less powerful, so you'll need/want to optimise performance. Make sure the website runs fast & smoothly (ie. optimise resource downloading, minimise/optimise javascript animations etc). Be aware that most phones have a 'click delay' (to detect swipes/drags etc) so you'll want to use something like fastclick to eliminate this.
Remember that on a mobile device your user will be using their fingers (and not a mouse) to click/interact with your website. So make sure tap targets are nice and large.
Finally .... test on a real device! Chrome dev tools etc to simulate phone screens is great for dev, but actually using your website on a mobile will reveal many design decisions that might need to change.
This might sound like a lot to think about, but I think given what you've said about your idea, in the long run, it will be more time efficient. (there is probably a equally long list of things to think about when developing a native app!)
Good luck with your idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for your help, I appreciate all the information. One last question on my end.
I'm assuming the development tools would be the same as a usual website (ie. In my case, Dreamweaver?). If you're familiar with Game Dev Tycoon, would a layout /similar style of interaction game b, e capable using only Dreamweaver, or is something else needed?

No worries, more than happy to help
I would actually suggest not using Dreamweaver as for the mobile website, you'll really want to be as lean and minimal as possible. From what I recall, Dreamweaver can add quite a bit of 'cruft' to your code.
I would suggest a standard text editor (recommend: http://www.sublimetext.com/) as that would allow you to have complete control over your code, what you include/exclude, what goes where etc. The mobile site will require that extra attention as you really want to make sure it runs smoothly on the mobile.
In terms of quick dev iteration (making sure the site looks correct) you can use the chrome developer tools (https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/) which allows you to fake the user agent/screen size etc on your browser. Though nothing beats occasional testing on a real device - just to make sure you're on the right track.
Had a look at Game Dev Tycoon and I would say for something as involved as that (lots of interaction, animations etc) it's better to go down the native route.

pyko said:
No worries, more than happy to help
I would actually suggest not using Dreamweaver as for the mobile website, you'll really want to be as lean and minimal as possible. From what I recall, Dreamweaver can add quite a bit of 'cruft' to your code.
I would suggest a standard text editor (recommend: http://www.sublimetext.com/) as that would allow you to have complete control over your code, what you include/exclude, what goes where etc. The mobile site will require that extra attention as you really want to make sure it runs smoothly on the mobile.
In terms of quick dev iteration (making sure the site looks correct) you can use the chrome developer tools (https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/) which allows you to fake the user agent/screen size etc on your browser. Though nothing beats occasional testing on a real device - just to make sure you're on the right track.
Had a look at Game Dev Tycoon and I would say for something as involved as that (lots of interaction, animations etc) it's better to go down the native route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you again. I appreciate all your help.