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Will Android Die tommarrow once the Iphone is announced for Verizon? I think so. As a former 5 time Android phone user I cant wait. I gave the robot every chance. But without the support of Devs making applications an OS is useless.
Enjoy!
honeycomb is gunna rock peoples socks!
Do they use cdma in other parts of the world?
??????
... must ... not ... correct bad spelling ...
Yeah -- have fun with your iPhone then.
HA It wont be dieing for me. I would never pick a iPhone over an android. Android so much more flexible and inventive in my humble opinion.
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
Tomorrow does not have an 'a' in it.
And no, the iPhone will not kill the Android no matter what carrier signs it. iPhones share the same traits as Macs -- pretty, easy to use, and nearly idiot-proof -- but the more advanced and adept users will always gravitate towards Android (linux) and Corporate users towards Windows.
Besides, iPhones to date have been overpriced and, like Macs, the only way you can run their OS is on their hardware. Android runs on everything from tablets to mp3 players to cell phones across a variety of manufacturers.
I mean, you're essentially asking if Betty Crocker Instant Mashed Potatoes are going to hurt the sale of spuds. The only real answer is a smack in the mouth.
delugeofspam said:
I mean, you're essentially asking if Betty Crocker Instant Mashed Potatoes are going to hurt the sale of spuds. The only real answer is a smack in the mouth.
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Backhand hand smack in the mouth?
delugeofspam said:
iPhones share the same traits as Macs -- pretty, easy to use, and nearly idiot-proof
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Click to collapse
awesome dude... share it on twitter xD
BigBonkers said:
Will Android Die tommarrow once the Iphone is announced for Verizon? I think so. As a former 5 time Android phone user I cant wait. I gave the robot every chance. But without the support of Devs making applications an OS is useless.
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Click to collapse
Seriously?? No dev support? Have you taken the phone out of the box and used it?
You do realize that your posting about no dev support on one of the larger dev communities right?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
only used HTC handsets now for maybe 6 years or so, now purely android and a tablet as well.
wife has an iphone 3gs running the new OS on it, had her use my android handset for a week as a test ...
she admitted if it weren't for the games and stupid little bits and bobs she was used to having she'd sell the iphone and switch in a heartbeat but alas not to be
BigBonkers said:
Will Android Die tommarrow once the Iphone is announced for Verizon? I think so. As a former 5 time Android phone user I cant wait. I gave the robot every chance. But without the support of Devs making applications an OS is useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HA! no support from the devs? Try owning a palm pre. I just ditched one for the new evo shift, and so far I am LOVING the amount of support for android
Please don't feed the troll!
you see now I never asked which was a better os......i stated that without support from TRUE developers making apps a OS is no Good. Android has a horrible market which rarely works. The apps are 2 year old ports from the iphone. As far as the pre i think it has the best os just horrible hardware.
Look at what Nividia showed running on the Tegra chips at CES.....1 year old PORTS of games that run on the Iphone perfectly.
Hardware is fine and dandy but NO SUPPORT guys. Its sad.
I honestly beleive once the iphone comes to verizon noone on BigRed will ever buy an android again. Atleast the common user. Well see soon. This is gonna be fun!!!!!!
BigBonkers said:
you see now I never asked which was a better os......i stated that without support from TRUE developers making apps a OS is no Good. Android has a horrible market which rarely works. The apps are 2 year old ports from the iphone.
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This is just blatantly wrong, so go troll somewhere else -- there's lots of big-name developers on Android, including some from the iPhone world.
And yes, there's lots of garbage on the android market, but it does work. Don't forget that Amazon will be launching their cleaned-up android market this year too.
@burtcom actually your proving my point. please show me ONE app that they focused on the TEGRA chips that isnt on the Iphone??? Please name one? Also Amazon market??? Ummm where is it? Ohhhh its not here yet....oh ok Let me know when it is!
Please name me the developers on Android...... Netflix (not yet)...Gameloft (ummm old ports from iphone) EA.....ummm wheres madden? Oh still in beta?
Dont talk when you have no clue!
Oh and if there are games on Gamelofts site (the Ports) there made for the droid phones and the resolution is way off wack!!! But enjoy
The US is the last place that the iPhone hasn't been available on multiple carriers. The rest of the world has carriers with both the iPhone and Android phones competing directly, and Android is still doing great there. A Verizon iPhone will probably put a dent in their Android handset sales, no doubt, but there's always going to be a segment of the market that want something cheaper, or more powerful.
So no, Android will be just fine after tomorrow.
And apps are not the be all end all. They only matter so much to iPhone because it's basically just a glorified app launcher with a few apps bundled in. You can't even see the current weather without launching an app.
OP, you do realize that the iPhone is available on many major carriers in the the rest of world, right? Do you seriously think the US has the biggest cellphone market? (The answer is no. I'm telling you this since you probably don't know the answer.) Android is still growing at a rapid rate and taking up market share in the rest of the world. We shall see how the iPhone 4 does IN THE US when it comes to Verizon. If iPhone 4 Verizon does destroy the Android, then Android will die ONLY in the US, not the rest of the world.
So what if many apps are ported from the iPhone? Why don't you ask why those developers are porting their apps over to Android if they don't see the potential of Android?
Technically, Android has the best developer that no iPhone developers can compare - Google itself. Where did iPhone's Maps and Youtube apps come from? Which OS has the better Google apps?
you see now I never asked which was a better os......i stated that without support from TRUE developers making apps a OS is no Good.
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You didn't ask, you simply implied that iOS is better. People here are just disagreeing with you. And most of your arguments are surrounding the game department of the iOS. What else do you have? Even if you bring some more things on the table, you still can't argue what I wrote in my first few paragraphs. Enjoy the iPhone. I honestly think it is a great phone, but I hope you didn't type your posts using the iPhone. If so, learn how to fully use your iPhone please, otherwise it would just be a waste, no offense.
When people keep talking about apps apps apps for iPhone, they are just talking about games. Really, ask any iPhone users what awesome apps they are talking about that aren't games, and they will not have an answer for you. Or name apps that also exist on Android. Netflix? Yeah, its pretty cool. But its not like its been out all that long for iPhone, and the video selection is pretty limited, AND it will be out for Android anytime now, since it was already leaked at CES.
Seriously, how many games do you need? I love playing games as much (probably more) than the next guy. And there is plenty on Android, and developer support is growing. If you need more games than available on Android, its pretty likely that you need to spend more time on other activities besides playing little casual games on your phone.
Besides, not all developers are in love with Apple. Look at Adobe and PrimeSense (the original developer of the XBox 360 Kinect controller). These are important players, that were completely turned off by Apple's need to domineer and control, and eventually gave up on Apple.
The OP implies that the only reason that not everyone owns an iPhone, is because they are tied to Verizon. There are plenty of people like me that have been on AT&T forever, but have no interest in the iPhone. AT&T customer for over a decade, and I've never owned an iPhone, and never will. If Apple had their way, there would be no variety in hardware, or how we use our phones. There will always be people that find these types of limitations suffocating and unacceptable. Some of us like to have the choice of more than one form factor (say a larger screen, or a smaller one, or a hardware keyboard), or to have a homescreen that isn't just a near-useless grid of shortcuts. It would be a sad place where only one device could exist. Luckily, things don't work that way, and there is always room for competition in just about any business. So with any luck, Android won't be going anywhere soon.
Sure the iPhone is popular. But saying an OS is doomed just because its not the most popular platform, and doesn't have the most games, then that's the same as saying Mac computer shouldn't exist either.
Android won't die tomorrow
But troll should die today
I don't know about others but to me a cell its more like a helping hand or what ever you like to call it. Atleast for the tech lovers like me. But we all have different ways of doing our day to day stuffs. Android appreciates and compliments that. That's why I will go for Android. For the level of freedom it gives you, not how many new cookies it have in the box.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App
Android is for guys..... iOS is for girls. Really!
http://m.pcgh.de/(S(4c2p4i55naliy455fdiacc45))/News/Articleviewer.aspx?id=802741
Sorry link is in german but the pictures are multi-language
Sent from my DHD using the force...
Found this interesting Article on Fudzilla regarding how Android could be killed off by the suppliers of the phones. Figured I would share
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/item/21611-android-could-be-killed-off-by-suppliers
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I pretty much summed up the article that if, Google doesn't take tighter control of how the suppliers are updating the phones, and if Google themselves do not ease up on releasing updates, then it might drive people away from Android phones due to the lack of support.
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
Well said and very true
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
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Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
A majority of customers don't care about updating the firmware of the phone. If it works, they won't complain. If it doesn't work, they'll bring it back for a warranty repair or simply get a new phone.
johncmolyneux said:
Twoddle.
At last report (that I know of), 300,000 people a day were activating new Android phones. I'm gonna guess here, but I reckon about 90% of those people don't give a monkeys about updated ROMs and new features. They don't understand enough about their phones to care. (Not an insult - just a statement.)
They'll keep their phone for the next 12/18/24 months and then get a nice new shiny one with the same OS cos it'll remember their contacts and they can download the same apps again.
Anyone that's in the other 10% know exactly how to modify the phone to suit their needs, and will only buy another phone because of the hardware. They know full well they can put whatever OS and apps on there they want.
For every bunch of people that leave Android to go iPhone, there'll be an equally sized bunch of people that leave iPhone to go Android. Change the OS names in that last sentence for other OSs to complete the story.
Analysts don't know squat. They're paid to make predictions that are less founded in reality than astrology. Besides, you can't be an analyst without anal.
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Click to collapse
Absolutely right.
On the other hand, i'm right outside that 10% bunch, but i'm just 17 and if i **** up my phone it won't be so good for me. I rooted, but i guess i am dumb enough not to know terminals and flashing and pushing stuff here and there
Anyhow- Android won't be killed. That's like when they said Linux was to be killed off in the early 2000's because Windows machines were supplied with an X amount of memory (about a 100mb extra than those running a distro)
Won't happen I mean come on what you think is the alternative? They want to pay the license? What happens if upgrade comes? who you think will pick up RIM? lol they are dead who else iOS? Sorry thats for iPanzy and who use that come on now, only other alternative is WM.
Also who wants to fight big Google? You think they will let it go easy? They can buy the ****ing company out and change the decision if they cared to just to send single message. Also then you have the user who can and is doing what they want hence you are on XDA? F the carrier support thats like saying you are bound to software hence your PC?
But the biggest problem with mobile world is the hardware which is not actually openly shared as opposed to computing world, where one can actually code the driver for support. BTW voddles your last sentence didn't make sense what so ever take it from someone who been using Slackware since it was created.
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
Search function is limited too (In Market and others) It's impossible to editing an old search, you have to enter everything again.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
Wanna have a new non Win, IOS, Bada, Android or Nokia stuff. Phone OS. Now.
Will not follow your guys inte 2.2 or 2.3
Journalism just seems to go down the toilet in the highly competitive virtual world of the internet.
"While HTC appears to be ahead of the game at getting new updates to uses, some outfits, particularly Motorola are developing a jolly bad name for themselves. You could upgrade yourself but he problem is getting your paws on unlocked boot loaders. Motorola's upcoming phones have locked bootloaders."
Locked bootloaders have nothing to do with official updates.
"However it looks to us like Google is going to need to put its foot down fast before the suppliers start killing off its operating system. The last thing people want is to get an Android phone and find it can't do something that has been advertised because some phone maker could not be bothered upgrading."
Put its foot down on a free OS? Ads go out advertising that all Android phones support roms? That all Android phone are upgradeable to the latest, greatest Android OS?
The whole article looks to be written by someone attempting to be sensational but really has no clue.
I remember when Android was new and you had all these manufacturers "skinning" Android. I was worried that a user may confuse a skin with the primary OS and incorrectly give credit or blame to that skin. People seem to love Sense UI and hate Motoblur. You impression of Android could vary depending on if you used an HTC vs a Motorola. That clearly did not happen.
Blåburk said:
I for myself isn't that impressed of Android anymore.
Having used an X10 Mini since May 2010 (now 2.1 and some extra updates)
Wanted the Mini for the Android Hype, Spotify music streaming and smallness.
Love the phone still but getting more and more angered of lack of decent software/apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
Hate all the Android keyboards(not because of it's tiny on a 2.6" screen) but the lack of arrow keys and stupidity behavior (like unable to mark text and enter new).
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If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
Also getting more and more irritated on the Google in general.
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'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
Never gonna happen.
ksizzle9 said:
Nice read but those publishers are idiots. The only way android will be killed of is if apple takes over the world and burns down google
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Everything said here is somewhat true and somewhat false. We all have our opinions, we all have different expectations from our phones...
What i don't understand is, and i say this from a developer perspective, why would any mobile device manufacturer, like Sony, lock out their devices? Same goes for Apple etc etc
I mean, i think far more ppl would actually buy their products if they know that they have a open device and that it can run on all carriers. I mean, i actually bought my 1st iPhone just because of the fact that someone made an unlock tool so u could use it outside of AT&T networks...
As for the OS side, Android wont die ofc, and i believe its a good thing that Google publishes updates to it so fast. This means they are really dedicated to the project and that they really care for developers so they can make much better apps, with more features and capabilities.
voddles said:
'Lack of decent apps'?
Know why there seems to be a lack here?
You live in Sweden.
Last.fm doesn't work, Goggles doesn't work, Quickoffice doesn't work, trillian is probably locked out too...
Why didn't you get a netbook anyway?
Mine cost the same as the x10 mini did in May 2010.
If that's what you wanted when you got the phone, why didn't you turn it in right away?
Yeah, they have arrow keys - on the ones with a sliding keyboard. Idiot.
'The Google'? What does Google have to do with your Sony Ericsson phone?
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Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Just one remark a phone made by SE but using the Google Android do have a somethings with the Google to do, doesn't it.
The rest of what you wrote is not worth comments.
Sorry for upsetting you
When do you think an android OS for desktops will be created?
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
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LOL now thats comedy.
I have to somewhat agree with you about the virtual keyboard. Now coming from HD2 which has the best stock keyboard I have ever seen. The arrow key and able to select via drag is best when you typing but on AOSP the whole idea is retarded. I can still type every fast but not fast as I once was on HD2 then again where is that whole 4.3" out there.
Nice read but those publishers are idiots.
I personally am always going to be sticking with HTC. They usually update most of there phones and even if they dont someone will have rooted it and just made a <insert android version here> rom. Plus even if no one can root it i still love Htc Sense and it looks 100x better than Motoblur or whatever Sony uses.
Blåburk said:
Thanks for sharing your IQ level with the world, hopes you will be able to eat with a spoon sometimes in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now now children... please lighten up, much more important things in this world to be getting upset or to "fight" over... honestly...
a subs0nic G2 bass cann0n blast0id via andr0id
so true.....only 10% of peopel like us know what we really want to do with our phones....
http://mashable.com/2011/03/24/honeycomb-delay/
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
just saw this. Not happy about it. The source may lead to buggy phone versions, but its also very important to everyone who will get left behind trying to get 3.0 upgrades from their manufacturer.
Now that's not good ...
Sniff.. sniff.. HONEYCREAMS! Why devs no give me honeycreams for my gtab?
I'm guessing this is not good for my drooling alter ego.
It is not release to the general public, but manufactures still got access to it, so maybe VS will have it updated
It is possible that Google's attempt to not shoot itself in the right foot will result in it shooting itself in the left foot.
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp...
Beside as much as I like to play with a new release I am not into such an hurry since Honeycomb is kindalike a new os not 100 % compatible with the current apps it seems
wow really.....tsk.....tsk by that definition it mean the xoom wasnt ready and there it is in the stores for purchase......thats just shameful ow well i sold my gtab days ago and my ipad 2 will be in my hand april 15, between this and the security problems that was in the market (i actually got an email from google and i dont know which app it was if anyone knows the names of the apps tell me) im off android for a while
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
P00r said:
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... nokia and other apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
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Click to collapse
what false information.....i just said i got and email from google telling me some apps was taking information from my tab and ask someone to tell me their names
Yes... The only way i see for now is to ask viewsonic for the update.
Do you know any way to make viewsonic make it faster???
P00r said:
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp... ...
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x2
They wanna be the new Microsoft, tried to mess with Fiber and probably got spanked on the bottom by the big boys....maybe Microsoft will be the new Google, and apple.... well apple makes a solid product, i dig my macbook, but Steve Jobs can suck it.
AT&T buys T-Mobile and THIS in the same week?! FML.
If they release honeycomb open source then no one will buy motorola xoom. Its not even about modifiying it on phone OS. Who will waste so much time on that. They not going to give the os out for a while. Better hope VS will make one for us
Have we so quickly forgotten reports that the version of Honeycomb on the Xoom leaves something to be desired?
And witness the results of a phone version of Android with an aftermarket U.I. overlay on our g tablets.
If Google is going to compete with Apple for the mainstream market, they need a good solid operating system with several successful tablet releases to improve customer perceptions.
Much as I love my g tablet, I have no qualms admitting that the iPad is miles better out of the box and that is what the general public wants.
Well finished products and a slick marketing machine are Apple's strengths, underestimate them at your peril.
I don't think Viewsonic are part of the open handset alliance. If they aren't part of the OHA I doubt they're getting access to Honeycomb either.
So now all we have to do is assemble team of highly skilled agents, break into Google's Mountain View complex, and steal the Honeycomb source code... I've seen Mission Impossible and Office Space. It can be done.
Who's with me?
From my CM powered Evo
It's kind of disappointing but it won't keep me from enjoying my G-Tablet.
honey....not right now
i have just taken a bite of gingerbread. i still need sometime to enjoy, do not want to spoil it with honey yet.
The problem isn't that they are not releasing Honeycomb this minute, or this month is they are saying they won't be releasing it anytime soon. Also there is rumors saying they are telling the vendors with HC they will get to keep it to themselves until IC, which is complete BS.
If Google wants to pull that then I will just not spend any money on apps, upgraded phones/tablets until they decide open source is open sourse. I will use they money to donate to dev's instead.
It's just really annoying that we could have people working on HC right now (or maybe a month or 2 from now), but it appears Google thinks HC shouldn't be released and instead kept to itself until the merge in IC. Well if it's not good enough to be open source they shouldn't have released the Xoom and any other HC tablet!
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
I was thinking with my buttons if Nexus 4 worth all that praise that people generally have been made. Does it deserve, repay it all?
Since Nexus 4's specs release, there was a lot of questioning, complaining and criticism over it characteristics.
Some persons that consider it-selves rather fair, affirms Nexus 4 is not rather than a upgrade from Galaxy Nexus.
Android Central defends LG Nexus as not just a upgrade from earlier release http://www.androidcentral.com/forums-nexus-4-merely-s-upgrade. Android Central's forums members says oppose.
I found a XDA Senior member kenjiwing http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=3041197&styleid=19 whose posted on this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=33814156#post33814156:
Android people are starting to sound like iphone sheep. Theres all kinds of prerelease problems with this phone but they still cant wait to get it the first day because its pretty.
(...)
Awful battery life
Real time delay during games and simple tasks like DIALING PHONE NUMBERS
Awful thermal performance
Awful benchmark #'s
No LTE
No removable battery
The list goes on and on..
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He almost got killed by other else members.
Then, we need to stop and reflect: Is N4 any kind of mock-up of Galaxy Nexus, plus more ram, better processor and display? Are we becoming Sheeps as Apple Sheeps? Are we being far, and Nexus 4 is really the best word to mean "innovation" and "Powerful", spoke this year?. Better than that, is that enough to state it as UNIQUE or DIFFERENTIATED (as we ever expect an Nexus device should be) ??
Or should we just to not expect this, as Eric, from Android Police said not a long ago http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/05/26/editorial-its-time-to-stop-complaining-because-your-smartphone-isnt-revolutionary/
So what is the true? Who is right? Lets comment, discuss and lets see if we find a deal!
You're right, it is happening. If you've been on The Verge when the Lumia 920 got announced, the amount of Nokia sheeps that came out was ridiculous, thinking that the camera is the best thing in the world, without even trying it for themselves. Then the review comes out, and the camera is good in low light, but in normal day to day pictures, its on par with the rest of the flagship phones.
Were getting the same thing with Android and the Nexus 4. It is still a great piece of hardware, but i hate it when people over-hype things without even holding the thing in their hands.
People need to know what the Nexus program is...
Those people know what the Nexus program is
Listen .... Myriam Joire http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/07/e...57-11-07-2012/
Read ... JR Raphael http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...id_at_its_best
Listen... Brian Klug http://www.anandtech.com/show/6438/t...cast-episode-9
kindiboy said:
People need to know what the Nexus program is...
Those people know what the Nexus program is
Listen .... Myriam Joire http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/07/e...57-11-07-2012/
Read ... JR Raphael http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...id_at_its_best
Listen... Brian Klug http://www.anandtech.com/show/6438/t...cast-episode-9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe this is the point... but inverted!
Customers doesnt give a f* for Nexus Agreement over manufacturer or anything else. Android users makes the ball to roll, if you got what I meant, and what Android users expect from an once-a-year Nexus device is that that phone becomes not only the best release of the year, but that it brings some unique feature. Something that will makes it differentiated from all the rest. And for Google and Partners, if they wont attend the customers demand, Nexus program may goes to fail.
cpaixao said:
Maybe this is the point... but inverted!
Customers doesnt give a f* for Nexus Agreement over manufacturer or anything else. Android users makes the ball to roll, if you got what I meant, and what Android users expect from an once-a-year Nexus device is that that phone becomes not only the best release of the year, but that it brings some unique feature. Something that will makes it differentiated from all the rest. And for Google and Partners, if they wont attend the customers demand, Nexus program may goes to fail.
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Nexus program will never fail, simply because the business model is different.
you are applying Apple's or Samsung's etc to Nexus just doesn't work.
What differentiated the nexus program since the beginning is having pure android, direct support from Google (software hardware insync)
one anomaly was the LTE GN which was a fake nexus phone, which failed miserably (to sales and to achieve the nexus goals)
Am giving up LTE because simply I don't want to be on a contract, I don't want to be under the mercy of manufacturers and carriers to get updates etc... That's what a Nexus promise. If getting LTE means the opposite am gonna drop the whole Android OS. because simply I want freedom and openness.