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So with the recent passage of the new Net Neutrality rulings by the FCC some things are going to change about the way ISPs are allowed to do business.
I was reading the document over and I noticed this little tidbit.
65. We also note that the rule entitles end users to both connect and use any lawful
device of their choice, provided such device does not harm the network.
[202]
A broadband provider
may require that devices conform to widely accepted and publicly-available standards applicable
to its services.
[203]
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Found on page 39 of http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-10-201A1.pdf
If I am allowed to use any device on the network, wouldn't that then protect my ability to tether my computer to my phone? I know they wouldn't be required to make it accessible for you, but this seems like it would not allow them to prevent you from doing it should you chose to.
Thoughts?
I tether all of the time
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Well yes and no. If the carrier decides, "Hey, you are harming my network with the bandwidth consumption", then by law they can prevent it. That is if they can show proof that you are hurting the network.
Sent from my shoe, I mean....Epic shoe... I mean Samsung Epic! http://mobilehighway.blogspot.com/
I tether all the time since we haven't been able to get landline internet due to some financial hardships. I have T-Mobile (the most lenient of all carriers on tethering) and have never had any issues with them. They throttled my buddy and girlfriend for going over 5GB, but that was it. I don't download anything bigger than the occasional ROM and use my connection for simple web page browsing and the occasional Youtube video. This is really what I would expect of most people, but I imagine there are assholes out there hogging bandwidth which is why these rules exist. It's always one guy that ruins it for the rest of us. If no one had ever abused the system, I doubt the carriers would have ever cared.
As far as the FCC ruling goes, doubtful. The first ruling basically can give the carrier ground to stop tethering by showing the one or two people hogging bandwidth are harming the network. The second ruling seems more to the point that if they offer tethering as a service then the phones that can support it, should BUT NOT must support it. I see nothing in those two rulings that would give anyone leeway to tether, for free at least.
We tether all the time. I can see no issue with normal user tethering on this ruling.
Here is the official legal stance.
Over broadband connection this would be right. Your ISP will have no right to prevent you from tethering, but that is just the problem. That rule only applies over broadband connections. Anything wireless is subjected to different laws. The only parts of the Net Neutrality law that affects wireless are the no-blocking and transparency rules. In other words carriers can still discriminate and charge more for tethering.
I totally agree with the sayings above. Good talk!
I agree with the above opinions. Nice talking!
Yes this info is from a brick and mortar company store, but I absolutely love my company store here. It's what I guess they consider a "Premier" store and it featured in their many in-store live feeds around the country... they always seem to have some higher level people working the floor.
So I'm there picking up a new device to replace my wife's total'd Aria (Inspire 4G) and was chatting with one of these "higher-ups". He saw my Cappy and asked to see it (presumably to see if I had updated to KB1 thinking if I didn't he'd do me a favor and upgrade to the newest Android )
The look on his face was priceless.
Higher-up: "This is a Captivate?"
Me: "Yup"
Higher-up: "But your running an I9000 ROM and modem?"
Me: "Yup, with a custom Kernel as well"
Higher-up: "Looks like your on HSPA. How"
Me: "Yup, and it was a ton faster about a month ago as well what you guys do throttle it back or something? It was almost like you threw a switch or something."
Higher-up: "They did. It should open back up this summer when all the system upgrades are done."
So... those lower speed net numbers.... their real.
I knew it. I just came from Huntsville, AL and the hotel I always stay in overlooks the apple store. My speed used to be higher (July/August) and the past two weeks they seem much slower. I mean I had never seen speeds like I saw this past summer.
modmyphone said:
Yes this info is from a brick and mortar company store, but I absolutely love my company store here. It's what I guess they consider a "Premier" store and it featured in their many in-store live feeds around the country... they always seem to have some higher level people working the floor.
So I'm there picking up a new device to replace my wife's total'd Aria (Inspire 4G) and was chatting with one of these "higher-ups". He saw my Cappy and asked to see it (presumably to see if I had updated to KB1 thinking if I didn't he'd do me a favor and upgrade to the newest Android )
The look on his face was priceless.
Higher-up: "This is a Captivate?"
Me: "Yup"
Higher-up: "But your running an I9000 ROM and modem?"
Me: "Yup, with a custom Kernel as well"
Higher-up: "Looks like your on HSPA. How"
Me: "Yup, and it was a ton faster about a month ago as well what you guys do throttle it back or something? It was almost like you threw a switch or something."
Higher-up: "They did. It should open back up this summer when all the system upgrades are done."
So... those lower speed net numbers.... their real.
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You sir, are my hero. Thank you for a good laugh to start my day. Now... off to study for my test tonight...
sent from my porcelain throne.
Interesting... I have also seen slower speeds for the past month...as well as a huge increase in dropped connections (both voice and data). I have been a happy Cingular/AT&T customer for 6 years, but I have recently been considering switching because it has been so bad...hopefully there are improvements soon.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
yeap I was wondering. Noticed this as well over the past few weeks...
I also live in Alabama and live 2 blocks from the Apple store and AT&T store, used to have fantastic speeds but now I don't
This guy has been a great source of reliable information when it comes to the network, so I have no reason to doubt him (he sucks when it comes to device support as most in-store folks do). He couldn't go into any details about what the upgrades included since his superior was there next to us assisting someone else. I'll go back in a couple of days and see what I can find out.
For quite some time AT&T has been throttling HSPA access (up and down) in markets where their backhaul is saturated. BTW, it is also possible but less likely that AT&T has set a policy in their PCRF function to throttle back HSPA for certain device types (e.g. Captivate TACs).
BTW, it isn't standard ops for retail employees to be informed about HSPA throttling or just about any other network function so whatever your retail guy hears is through a long and unofficial grapevine and most likely rumor. Network changes at the core are kept quiet for several reasons.
maybe they throttled it down to work on upgrading their system to HSPA+ to support the new 4g devices. if the source is reliable, it could make sense since when the floor manager said the speeds would return mid summer, that is right before AT&t is allegedly supposed to have their LTE network ready (think they said Q3 or Q4... could be wrong)
So basicly you guys are saying its at&t's network that there slowing down causing slow I net speeds and a spike from almost no dropped calls to weekly dropped calls and that its not the ROMs?
We need to investigate with the google.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Yeah, I agree, I doubt this guy knows anything. Higher up in retail customer service still knows very little about how AT&T actually runs their network. Plus, it makes no sense that they would throttle the speeds for the upgrade. Nothing about the upgrade needs speeds throttled. All they have to do is update the software at the towers to support HSPA+, then ADD bandwidth. I think he's talking out of his ass personally.
AJerman said:
Yeah, I agree, I doubt this guy knows anything. Higher up in retail customer service still knows very little about how AT&T actually runs their network. Plus, it makes no sense that they would throttle the speeds for the upgrade. Nothing about the upgrade needs speeds throttled. All they have to do is update the software at the towers to support HSPA+, then ADD bandwidth. I think he's talking out of his ass personally.
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No, you get it backwards . Add bandwidth to a tower means lay out new fiber cables which means $$$.
So, in order to support the added speed of HSPA+ devices, while not adding any new bandwidth to the backhaul, they have to throttle down everyone that's not on HSPA+ (that's us) so that there is enough bandwidth left for HSPA+ phones.
For business point of view throwing money into HSPA+ network right now is not a good investment. AT&T will rather save that money towards LTE deployement (which will be new infrastructure).
Just to clarify, his first job is not customer service. I'm lucky enough to have what AT&T considers a "Premier" store. So on staff at all times are your normal sales people plus a supervisor, a Network technician and/or supervisor , dedicated U-verse techs and supervisor and usually someone higher than that in store. Walking into the store is kinda like walking into a corporate meeting.
Like I said earlier, he has never wronged me yet with the information that he has given out. Lots of things he'll skirt because he has to, but if you hit him with some leading questions, he'll usually divulge... to a point. Kinda like a smirking nod while telling you he doesn't have that information.
foxbat121 said:
No, you get it backwards . Add bandwidth to a tower means lay out new fiber cables which means $$$.
So, in order to support the added speed of HSPA+ devices, while not adding any new bandwidth to the backhaul, they have to throttle down everyone that's not on HSPA+ (that's us) so that there is enough bandwidth left for HSPA+ phones.
For business point of view throwing money into HSPA+ network right now is not a good investment. AT&T will rather save that money towards LTE deployement (which will be new infrastructure).
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I think you're a little over the edge on how evil AT&T is. Besides, they need the bandwidth for LTE as well, just like they need it for HSPA+. HSPA+ is just a software upgrade on the towers, plus more bandwidth, so investing in building HSPA+ is logical while building LTE, which is why they are doing both.
foxbat121 said:
No, you get it backwards . Add bandwidth to a tower means lay out new fiber cables which means $$$.
So, in order to support the added speed of HSPA+ devices, while not adding any new bandwidth to the backhaul, they have to throttle down everyone that's not on HSPA+ (that's us) so that there is enough bandwidth left for HSPA+ phones.
For business point of view throwing money into HSPA+ network right now is not a good investment. AT&T will rather save that money towards LTE deployement (which will be new infrastructure).
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Couldn't have put it better myself.
AJerman said:
I think you're a little over the edge on how evil AT&T is. Besides, they need the bandwidth for LTE as well, just like they need it for HSPA+. HSPA+ is just a software upgrade on the towers, plus more bandwidth, so investing in building HSPA+ is logical while building LTE, which is why they are doing both.
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Not evil, just bad network planning. They famously got up at a conference in NYC over a year ago and said "stop using so much bandwidth!" (http://www.businessinsider.com/att-ceo-iphone-data-hogs-were-coming-after-you-2009-12). They thought they could get to LTE without having to put more into HSPA. Well, their CTO should have been fired in my opinion.
Bottom line is don't underestimate the cost of backhaul. And software upgrades to HSPA+ radios are still not cheap. It is pretty well known in the industry that AT&T is turning off and/or throttling specific HSPA services market by market depending on backhaul constraints and other congestion issues. And Foxbat is 100% correct in saying they would rather hold off on further HSPA investments and focus on LTE which is more efficient at both radio access and wired transport.
I have a friend that manages a corporate store. I asked him when I got the Attix, why the speeds were about the same as the Captivate. He said basically the same thing. Until the backhaul is completed we are stuck with the current speeds.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
AJerman said:
I think you're a little over the edge on how evil AT&T is.
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Then, tell me why AT&T goes out of its way to disable HSUPA on our phones via firmware (all except iPhones).
Besides, they need the bandwidth for LTE as well, just like they need it for HSPA+. HSPA+ is just a software upgrade on the towers, plus more bandwidth, so investing in building HSPA+ is logical while building LTE, which is why they are doing both.
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As I said, LTE is a different deployment project and different network. They will have to keep both LTE and HSPA/HSPA+ running in parallel. And for all we know, LTE deployment probably hasn't started yet.
First off, I have yet to experience any of the issues mentioned in this post. I live in Michigan and I have excellent HSDPA and 3G speeds on my Captivate. They have not changed since before I even had an Android device... (I'm thinkin back to my iPhone3GS...)
Not to mention the fact that, if they were to reduce anyones bandwidth access below the rate that you pay for, you'd be entitled to free service or some other compensation. You pay for a service. That service is required to be consistent or you do not have to pay. (with regard to downed lines and other technical malfunctions)
They cannot just randomly go into their servers and start limiting bandwidth access below what people are paying for simply because they think they will require more bandwidth for some update of some sort. That is a crime. I doubt AT&T wants to flirt with that...
Not to mention, the latest firmware update that went out for Captivate devices was not OverTheAir. Thus that does not apply in this situation.
Also, they do not require increased bandwidth for OTA updates for that matter. Any time an OTA update is scheduled they account for the updates requirements prior to making it live. On scheduled OTA updates they configure the update itself so you can easily obtain the update on your normal 3G connection.
IF there ever was a situation where more bandwidth was required for an update of any kind AT&T would recommend and/or require WiFi access before they would mess around with bandwidth access to their customers!
And if you didn't have access to a WiFi AP then they would recommend taking a trip up to the AT&T store, nearest you.
So all this hoopla about them slowing down bandwidth access and yadda yadda is exactly that, a bunch of hoopla...
It's more than likely either technical maintenance in your area or you're device is not operating properly.
foxbat121 said:
Then, tell me why AT&T goes out of its way to disable HSUPA on our phones via firmware (all except iPhones).
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HSUPA is High Speed UPLOAD Packet Access. It's very rare that your device would require these speeds for uploading data. HSUPA is also not part of your contract agreement. Only the download speeds are. Look into it.
foxbat121 said:
As I said, LTE is a different deployment project and different network. They will have to keep both LTE and HSPA/HSPA+ running in parallel. And for all we know, LTE deployment probably hasn't started yet.
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Thus how would this type of update affect any of our bandwidth access? Simply put, it wouldn't. Service interruptions are something I'm more than positive AT&T would much rather avoid.
RaptorOne3 said:
First off, I have yet to experience any of the issues mentioned in this post. I live in Michigan and I have excellent HSDPA and 3G speeds on my Captivate. They have not changed since before I even had an Android device... (I'm thinkin back to my iPhone3GS...)
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The congestion of the AT&T network varies city by city. If you have excellent connection, good for you because you happen to live in a area that does not have a lot of smartphone traffics. Not so in big cities.
Not to mention the fact that, if they were to reduce anyones bandwidth access below the rate that you pay for, you'd be entitled to free service or some other compensation. You pay for a service. That service is required to be consistent or you do not have to pay. (with regard to downed lines and other technical malfunctions)
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You're living in fantasy land, my friend. No ISP in US ever guarantees connection speed for consumer grade services. On the contrary, all ISPs oversells its bandwidth (the only way to make money).
They only guarantee bandwidth for commerical grade services. Hence why business pay thousands per month for essential the same bandwidth while individuals pay less than 1/10 of that. So, if a company pays for 10mbps connection, the ISP must ensure the QoS and preserve enough bandwidth for that customer. However, if a consumer pays for 10mbps connection, ISP put 10 or 20 or even more accounts on the same 10mbps pipe to share the bandwidth. So, if you're the only one on line that time, you get all 10mbps. But if 20 ppl is online at the same time, your effective bandwidth is about 500kbps.
RaptorOne3 said:
First off, I have yet to experience any of the issues mentioned in this post. I live in Michigan and I have excellent HSDPA and 3G speeds on my Captivate.
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Like I said, it's only in specific markets where the backhaul is reaching congestion thresholds on a regular basis. I would venture a guess that smartphone density in Detroit is lower than some other parts of the country.
RaptorOne3 said:
Not to mention the fact that, if they were to reduce anyones bandwidth access below the rate that you pay for, you'd be entitled to free service or some other compensation. You pay for a service. That service is required to be consistent or you do not have to pay. (with regard to downed lines and other technical malfunctions)
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Really? What data rate did you pay for? Is it in your contract? I think you'll find that you have no guaranteed data rate unless you are signed up to some sort of QoS plan that I've never heard of. You are on what everyone else is on and it's called "best effort data" meaning it could be 7.2Mbps or it could be 1kbps. Check the agreed service levels in your contract before making such a claim.
RaptorOne3 said:
They cannot just randomly go into their servers and start limiting bandwidth access below what people are paying for simply because they think they will require more bandwidth for some update of some sort. That is a crime. I doubt AT&T wants to flirt with that...
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Uhhh, they do. They have whole systems dedicated to doing exactly that.
Hi,
I've been looking through GS4G threads and haven't seen any posts on the GS4G threads about this. I'm pretty disappointed with this phone, but I have a lot of confidence that with the mods that can come out it'll be a good investment. I originally was informed that the phone can be rooted and rommed to make it its own wifi without needing to pay for internet access through the carriers and that's why I bought it. (I think it was by using Busybox? I don't remember) - but has anyone done this and is it really possible to do this? So many sales points made by the TM guys have proven to be wrong, I am now questioning this point also.
My phone was unlocked by a local service for $30 after 3 minutes work. I now have Simple Mobile and I'm happier than I was with TM. It does still seem that everything has to be routed through Goog, nearly every function must pass through the cloud and that's why so much data use is sucked up so quickly and my experience so far is that the Android platform is either surprisingly unstable or so far advanced that a simple mind such my own cannot quite grasp it's nuances...yet.
But I digress - can this phone be made into it's own internet AP without having to pay TM, ATT, etc?
All helpful comments welcomed and acknowleged.
Cheers,
Moved to proper forum
I search a wiget hotspot on market n work very good for wifi tether
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
built in wifi
The Mobile AP works without being charged.
Hmm...
So are you saying that you want to be able to use data service on your phone without paying for the data service...or are you saying that you have data service and want to tether or use your phone as a hotspot to use your data plan on another device without paying the AP fee?
If it's the former...I really don't think that that is possible...because everyone would be doing it. The data part of my family plan is something like 60 bucks...I'd love to be saving that every month. The fact is, none of the carriers would allow that. The data is tracked and I can't imagine it would be possible to sneak it under their radars without getting a nasty letter.
If it's the latter, yes. Root your phone (In most cases) and download a free tethering or wifi app (I use EasyTether, but there are several out there). Follow instructions. Easy Peasy. Tethering and/or Mobile AP without paying the $15 or whatever fee. But (And someone correct me if I'm wrong here) I do not think that you can use tethering or mobile AP without having a paid for data service from a carrier. Sorry.
There are also people saying that if you use the built in tethering/mobile AP ability on your device without having paid for the service through T-mo, that as long as use it lightly, T-mo will ignore it. I have heard accounts of people using it too much and getting an email from T-mo basically saying "Hey quit that...pay for it, you greedy bastard" (Paraphrased).
Also...What exactly is your disappointment with this device? If you let us know exactly what your issues with it are...there is a chance that we can give you advice or a workaround to get the most of your device...that's what we're for. At very least we can point you to a thread that already exists to help you out.
Pretty simple... the mobile ap included within the phone works fine.... use it as an AP as much as you like.. tmobile's fine with it cuz they know as soon as you hit the 5gb thresh your gonna be throttled down. Doesn't matter if you root and download 3rd party AP software cuz as soon as you hit the 5gb your all done.
In my opinion I think this is totally fine for TMOBile to do.. although I wish they were clear about the 5gb cap when you sign the 2year agreement. I had Sprint 4g before this and Att before that and this is the first internet connection I would drop my home internet for.... of course if it had true unlimited bandwidth. At work and at home I get a steady 7+mbps down and 1.5mpbs up with a 65 to 100 ping... when I'm using it at home it hardly seems noticeably slower or less snappy than my 20mbps comcast connection.
I think ultimately if they are going to throttle they should raise the limitation to about 15gb or so and be very upfront to the customer when they sign... That would take away about 99 percent of the complaints they get and give us some headroom.. also would still guarantee no one's gonna be running their website or downloading 100's of gigs of torrents over a cell tower..
All carriers throttle...no carriers have "true" unlimited data. T-Mo is pretty upfront about the throttling. I mean...it's there...in black in white. I knew about it when I signed up for my service. There's no reason that anyone doing any form of research before just jumping into a two-year contract would not be able to find that information as well.
Also...the reason they throttle is to keep users from using it as their home internet. That's not what it is intended for and if everyone was doing that...it would prolly have cataclysmic effects on the network (Again...correct me if I'm wrong here).
I have a hard time believing that your mobile connection is faster than your home cable internet...But I can't prove my suspicion...so that aside, the 5gb limit is way more than enough if you are using your mobile internet for just browsing and downloading apps or streaming media. I would consider myself I pretty hard-core mobile internet user and I have never hit 5gb in a month...that being said...I'm also not trying to use it as my home internet. I don't use it to download torrents or stream entire movies or play online games. Besides...T-mo only throttles your bandwidth after hitting 5gb...at least they don't shut you down like other carriers.
The fact is...there is no Unlimited mobile data...but as far as it goes...T-Mo has the best plan out there. Great coverage, 4g, 5gb limit and only then they throttle you back a bit.
Sigh...I should be working in the mobile technology business...instead I'm working a mind-numbing production job for **** pay. Not applicable to the thread...but I really felt like pining.
wmikemoon said:
All carriers throttle...no carriers have "true" unlimited data. T-Mo is pretty upfront about the throttling. I mean...it's there...in black in white. I knew about it when I signed up for my service. There's no reason that anyone doing any form of research before just jumping into a two-year contract would not be able to find that information as well.
Also...the reason they throttle is to keep users from using it as their home internet. That's not what it is intended for and if everyone was doing that...it would prolly have cataclysmic effects on the network (Again...correct me if I'm wrong here).
I have a hard time believing that your mobile connection is faster than your home cable internet...But I can't prove my suspicion...so that aside, the 5gb limit is way more than enough if you are using your mobile internet for just browsing and downloading apps or streaming media. I would consider myself I pretty hard-core mobile internet user and I have never hit 5gb in a month...that being said...I'm also not trying to use it as my home internet. I don't use it to download torrents or stream entire movies or play online games. Besides...T-mo only throttles your bandwidth after hitting 5gb...at least they don't shut you down like other carriers.
The fact is...there is no Unlimited mobile data...but as far as it goes...T-Mo has the best plan out there. Great coverage, 4g, 5gb limit and only then they throttle you back a bit.
Sigh...I should be working in the mobile technology business...instead I'm working a mind-numbing production job for **** pay. Not applicable to the thread...but I really felt like pining.
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A lot of what you say is true but, I was not told about the throttling when I got my UNLIMITED DATA plan. I came from a company that had truly UNLIMITED DATA. I was with them since 2006 and never once had a letter about my data use nor was I EVER throttled. I had excellent Download speeds and could easily use streaming media. That company was Alltel. It is the BEST cell phone service I have ever had. Unfortunately, they sold out in my area first to Verizon in Maricopa county then AT&T in Pinal county Arizona. This is a great loss. With TMO I get 2G Edge speed at best unless I drive 40 miles into town. On my laptop it takes 3 to 5 minutes to load my gmail account. Where I am at I can get satellite or cell service only for internet. I am a truck driver so it doesn’t pay to get satellite because I am not home enough to use it. At best I get 16 t0 20KB/SEC down. I reached my 5GB limit this weekend and am being throttled for the next week or so. I talked to customer service and explained my situation to a supervisor and her comment was “It looks like we are throttling all the time and now throttling you even more. When I talk to the rep at the TMO store a week or so ago about the throttling he failed to tell me about he admitted that TMO would slow my service from 4G down to 2G. What TMO has done to me was slow me down to 1G. Right now it takes 3 to 4 minutes’ to download 1MB. I had faster download speeds with NETZERO dialup for $8.00 a month back in the 90’s. I was miss-lead by TMO both in their advertising and thru representation. I can’t say I blame my rep so much because I’m sure they are trained to only give you enough information to make the sale, which means they are trained to withhold the TRUTH or at least not disclose the meaning on “UNLIMITED” unless you pry it out of them. Truthfully, I like the people at my TMO store. They are very helpful. It’s just they are bound by the corporate Greed that makes their paycheck. I will likely not be with TMO much longer. I like my phone but the service sucks.
It works just fine.
Don't abuse it, use it only when needed and you will be fine. Otherwise, they will "recommend" you to add the whatever-is-called-tethering add on.
In fact, everyone: Don't abuse it and they will probably leave it as it is... Until the att takeover takes place (ouch)
fosormic said:
It works just fine.
Don't abuse it, use it only when needed and you will be fine. Otherwise, they will "recommend" you to add the whatever-is-called-tethering add on.
In fact, everyone: Don't abuse it and they will probably leave it as it is... Until the att takeover takes place (ouch)
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With that attitude you will conform to whatever these corporations want to shove down our throats. Every day corporations are charging us more and more and giving us less and less. Then they buy up the few companies left that are giving us value for our money. Soon we will back to one choice like back in the Ma Bell days and you will be standing right up front saluting the Beast.
Like I said...All carriers throttle. I'm glad that a company that is not around anymore didn't throttle...but that was also before mobile data really took off. I'm pretty sure what happened is people started using mobile data for their home internet and started clogging the tubes (or you know...airwaves or whatever) and the major carriers did what they had to do...which means throttling. If they didn't throttle...people would be using mobile data for their home use and making it so people, like myself who pay for cable internet but like to browse or whatever on the go, would suffer...which isn't fair considering me and people like me are using (and paying for) the mobile data for what it is intended for.
In your last post you berated a fellow poster for saying to use the tethering but not to abuse it. You basically said that his attitude was that of a conformer to major corporations...This boggles my mind. Really and truly...T-mo wants you to pay for the tethering and if you use it without paying for it...you are rebelling to corporate standards...so your comment makes no sense.
The fact that T-mo takes the stance that they do on the tethering without paying for tethering thing earns my respect. They're basically saying "You know what...we ****ed up and made it so you can use the tethering option without paying for it...just don't be a **** and we'll look the other way."
Also, If you root and or mod your phone in any way...and something happens and you have to send your phone in to T-mo...they tend to look the other way. Can Verizon or Att say that? Hell no...Att is trying to make it so their phones CAN'T be rooted or modded in anyway. Ask an Atrix user.
Sounds like to me you are just whining because T-mo didn't tell you about the throttling. Again, I stand by my earlier statement...Do your research before jumping into a Two-Year contract. It's there...everything is...you just have to READ it. That goes for ANYTHING that you sign a contract for. When you buy a new car...do you just skip everything the contract says and sign it? Of course not. You read that **** because you don't wanna be screwed. Companies exist to make money off of you...plain and simple...so if they make you sign a contract...you best do your research to know exactly what they are offering...and if you don't....I have absolutely no sympathy for you what-so-ever. It's you with the egg on your face...just because you didn't take the time to read.
I agree with tmobile on Throttling to a degree.. and I understand the reasoning BUT.. I still believe their advertising and plans are a bit misleading... For example I went to a tmobile store here in Eugene.. talked about plans and speeds with a tmo rep and was told nothing about the limits. Also I bought my galaxy 4g at Radio Shack and also was told nothing about it.. I looked on TMO's website and found in their agreement this>>>>>>> "Your data session, plan, or service may be slowed, suspended, terminated, or restricted if you use your service in a way that interferes with or impacts our network or ability to provide quality service to other users"
That is pretty vague when in reality there is a solid 5gb max.. whether it's on your 1st day of service or 2nd to last day...
I knew about the limits before only because of these message forums... but even after reading the fine print i wouldn't have known for sure
Protective Measures: To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth. If your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change without notice; please check T-Mobile’s T&Cs on www.T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. If you use your Data Plan in a manner that could interfere with other customers’ service, affect our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or degrade service quality for other customers, we may suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, or switch you to a more appropriate Data Plan.
Copied from the Terms and Conditions which has a link on literally every single page on T-Mo's website and is clearly marked in the section titled "Data Plans and Other Features".
Alternatively, on Verizon's site...You can only get to the details about their data package after adding a voice plan and phone to your cart...at which point it gives a vague description of their throttling rules that do not mention exact amounts. It just says that it can throttle your speed whenever it feels like.
So again...not seeing a problem here...
Using GS4G as hot spot
Thanks for all your replies. It took me a while to find where the thread went.
Yes, I did mean turning the phone into it's own router/internet AP without tethering. My BB used Tether and it was great and that of course used my data plan from SPrint. No problem with that - I'm a very light user. But Android is different - just about every app uses the web so it's a data hog, even though I'm a light user.
I know that TM and others permit tethering as a built in or as a work around with a third party app. But I was told - apparently incorrectly - that the GS4G could do the same thing as a router without any cap set by the carrier. Hmm. Maybe there's a way to develop and independent app to do just that... but that's way beyond my pay grade.
Misc - 1). I guess I filed this thread under the wrong heading. Sorry, Mr. C and thanks for the course correction; 2). What issues do I have with the phone? Well, the biggest one is that suddenly - after I changed to Simple Mobile from TM, I can no longer access the login page to my third party office scheduler. Previously, I could at least access the login page, login and view the appointments, but it crashed every time I tried to make an app using the phone (but not using a laptop). Support told me that a mobile Android app has to be customized in order to work because of the page loading limitations of the Android system - whatever that means - and that maybe in a few months they'll have an app. In the meantime, they recommend using a sync with GooCal. But GC seems to flub the time zone differences between when you post an appointment online and when it is synced to the phone. I thought that Goo had fixed that, but I still see West Coast time on the GooCal website and the correct East Coast time on the phone. I'm so confused! Does anyone know if GooCal is HIPAA compliant for a medical practice? If not; anyone use another service that IS compliant on their Annie device? Another problem I had - now resolved by my ISP provider - was that Android didn't support the wav file for my voice mails. Now it does. If not, that would've been a deal breaker. Also, I was told - apparently ALSO incorrectly by TM - that visual voice mail was a speech to text app. Nope. It just plays an audio and you can see the date and time and phone number and pause it. Big whoop. I'm told that Google Voice IS a real, but perhaps flawed, speech to text voice mail conversion, but I don't think it will work for business purposes. I thought about Line two, but was told their visual voice mail is only like TM's visual voice, not speech to text. Lastly, TM said you could dictate reports with a pre-loaded, stock dictation/speech to text app. Nope again. Um, I think that covers it. Any experience with any of these glitches?
I think that his site rocks and everyone thinking of buying any cell or service should come here first and just not even bother with any of the carriers' sales personnel. But the carriers aren't interested in selling to folks like us, are they? They want the masses who just plug and play. OK. No quarrel with that. I'm just glad we're not ALL forced to PnP and this site, we don't have to. I do think that adding Mods and rooting are the way to go, but I'm a Mac guy and everything here seems PCentric. so I may have to wait till I get my hands on a Win 7 machine for half an hour. (No, I don't run Parallels - had a bad experience with a couple of early versions).
I'm still a GS4G booster to date and I'm going to try new things with it. But so far it makes me wish it was more intuitive.
Cheers,
wmikemoon said:
Protective Measures: To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth. If your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change without notice; please check T-Mobile’s T&Cs on www.T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. If you use your Data Plan in a manner that could interfere with other customers’ service, affect our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or degrade service quality for other customers, we may suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, or switch you to a more appropriate Data Plan.
Copied from the Terms and Conditions which has a link on literally every single page on T-Mo's website and is clearly marked in the section titled "Data Plans and Other Features".
Alternatively, on Verizon's site...You can only get to the details about their data package after adding a voice plan and phone to your cart...at which point it gives a vague description of their throttling rules that do not mention exact amounts. It just says that it can throttle your speed whenever it feels like.
So again...not seeing a problem here...
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When I asked the TMO rep “This data plan has UNLIMITED DATA”? He said YES. He made no mention of the 5GB “LIMIT”. Therefore he misrepresented the product. These companies falsely advertise their products with misleading information to make it look bigger than life in an attempt to lock us in to a two year contract. You are saying that because they hide the gory details somewhere in their web pages that makes it OK. You speculate that the reason Alltel went out of business is because of over usage by their customers clogging their lines. I don’t know where you did your research but I never had any issues with service failure due to over usage or any other issues for that matter. You said “All carriers throttle”. I was never throttled ONCE by Alltel. I guess that may be true now, since the only decent service provider has been acquired by their Big Brother Corporations. If they were still in business I would still be there. Would it not be a novel Idea to invest in their network so they can handle the added throughput, and provide a robust network that gives us the service they promised us in their advertising? I don’t have any problem with paying for a product or service I want. I do have a problem with companies that lie or mislead about their product. TMO puts it out there in LARGE WORDS “UNLIMITED DATA” then hides the gory details in other places. Your attitude is that’s just fine with you. If more people would not take the BULL-onie that these Corporations are shoving down our throats and demand HONISTY in advertising we would be getting a better value for our money. You are dam right when you say I am rebelling to corporate standards. Corporations do not have our best interests in mind. They are only concerned about profit. If they can do away with competition, there is more profit for the higher-ups. Then you lose your job and the public looses their choice and gets less value. You choose to justify what these corporations are doing to our nation and put on blindfolds to the truth.
I gladly respect and give fosormic his right to his opinion. I just think that attitude promotes the passive nature that has allowed this country to go down the tubes and be taken over by greedy corporate money barons. People in this country have to have the Balls to stand up and be heard if this nation is to survive.
If you want to get worked up about something look into "'net neutrality" -- that's a cause worth fighting.
Yes, it is "easy" to hit a 5 GB cap. Yes, it is very clearly called out in the T&C of the phone -- You had 14 days in most states (30 days in California) to read that and get a full refund if you didn't agree.
The T-Mobile data service is arguably "unlimited" -- once you hit the cap, you are free to continue.
As speeds increase and more people have a phone capable of sustained and reliable rates over 1 Mbps, then you will see consumer pressure for higher caps. Until then, welcome to the bleeding edge...
Dude...you are getting way too bent over this.
You keep making T-mo out to be a terrible carrier...I'm just trying to convince you that they are the lesser of the evils.
nwpro3 said:
When I asked the TMO rep “This data plan has UNLIMITED DATA”? He said YES. He made no mention of the 5GB “LIMIT”. Therefore he misrepresented the product.
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No...he told the truth. It is unlimited data. The alternative to unlimited data is what Att does which is set a limit and then charge you when you go over that limit. It is (or should be at this point) common knowledge that if you have a mobile data plan that is unlimited...your carrier will throttle you if you use too much.
nwpro3 said:
You are saying that because they hide the gory details somewhere in their web pages that makes it OK. You speculate that the reason Alltel went out of business is because of over usage by their customers clogging their lines.
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Um...no and no. I'm saying that it's there for you to read in the place that you should read before committing to a two-year contract. We're not talking about fine print locked away in a website that can only be found by searching one specific term...It's the TERMS & CONDITIONS and there is LITERALLY A LINK ON EVERY SINGLE PAGE ON THEIR WEBSITE. They are not hiding it...I really don't see why you think they are. Also...I never speculated why Alltel went out of business...I don't know why and I don't really care. They are not around anymore and have not been for a while so there really is no point in talking about it.
nwpro3 said:
Would it not be a novel Idea to invest in their network so they can handle the added throughput, and provide a robust network that gives us the service they promised us in their advertising? I don’t have any problem with paying for a product or service I want. I do have a problem with companies that lie or mislead about their product. TMO puts it out there in LARGE WORDS “UNLIMITED DATA” then hides the gory details in other places.
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It's for MOBILE DATA. That's what the network is intended for...NOT HOME INTERNET. The service you want is HOME BROADBAND. If that's what you want...get that. They offer unlimited downloads and never throttle your speed because their service is intended to be used on a massive scale. What you are doing is like...Going to McDonalds and wondering why they aren't serving high class food. It's a restaurant...They serve food...gotta be the same as a 5-star restaurant...WHY AREN'T THEY SERVING 5-STAR FOOD!? Because you're looking in the wrong place, dude. If you want home internet...get home internet...stop expecting all of the carriers to conform to what you want when they are clearly just not set up for it.
Stop dissing T-mo...T-mo is the best carrier out there for what people on this site want from a carrier. Basically...they love nerds and are very very fair. Yes...the T-mo Customer Service people in store aren't the brightest people in the world...But it's because they are hired based on customer service experience not technology knowledge (Techknowledgy!? COINED IT!)...if they were A) I wouldn't be working on a Production Line making 8 an hour and B) Mobile phone customer service reps would know what the **** they were talking about.
Word?
@Whiskey Tango - Go to Menu>settings>Wireless Network>Mobile AP> Activate Mobile AP. This is what works for me, idk if maybe simple mobile is any different then tmobile or not.
So if you already have a data plan, you should be able to make your phone a "router". I have let many friends (w/iphones & att) use my mobile AP and it was 10 x's faster than there data connection.
I also tether my pc to my phone and have been able to load any page I went to.
Maybe I'm totally missing the question. Wouldn't be the first time.
wmikemoon said:
Dude...you are getting way too bent over this.
You keep making T-mo out to be a terrible carrier...I'm just trying to convince you that they are the lesser of the evils.
No...he told the truth. It is unlimited data. The alternative to unlimited data is what Att does which is set a limit and then charge you when you go over that limit. It is (or should be at this point) common knowledge that if you have a mobile data plan that is unlimited...your carrier will throttle you if you use too much.
Um...no and no. I'm saying that it's there for you to read in the place that you should read before committing to a two-year contract. We're not talking about fine print locked away in a website that can only be found by searching one specific term...It's the TERMS & CONDITIONS and there is LITERALLY A LINK ON EVERY SINGLE PAGE ON THEIR WEBSITE. They are not hiding it...I really don't see why you think they are. Also...I never speculated why Alltel went out of business...I don't know why and I don't really care. They are not around anymore and have not been for a while so there really is no point in talking about it.
It's for MOBILE DATA. That's what the network is intended for...NOT HOME INTERNET. The service you want is HOME BROADBAND. If that's what you want...get that. They offer unlimited downloads and never throttle your speed because their service is intended to be used on a massive scale. What you are doing is like...Going to McDonalds and wondering why they aren't serving high class food. It's a restaurant...They serve food...gotta be the same as a 5-star restaurant...WHY AREN'T THEY SERVING 5-STAR FOOD!? Because you're looking in the wrong place, dude. If you want home internet...get home internet...stop expecting all of the carriers to conform to what you want when they are clearly just not set up for it.
Stop dissing T-mo...T-mo is the best carrier out there for what people on this site want from a carrier. Basically...they love nerds and are very very fair. Yes...the T-mo Customer Service people in store aren't the brightest people in the world...But it's because they are hired based on customer service experience not technology knowledge (Techknowledgy!? COINED IT!)...if they were A) I wouldn't be working on a Production Line making 8 an hour and B) Mobile phone customer service reps would know what the **** they were talking about.
Word?
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I agree with the statement TMO is the lesser of two evils. I have had cell service with all the majors: Verizon, Sprint, Cingular/ATT, Alltel and now TMO. Unfortunately the only one that gave me decent service is no longer around. I went to TMO because they advertise unlimited data and when I talked to the rep he said they also have an unlimited voice plan. I am looking for the best value I can get. I’ve been around a long time and have watched this corporate mentality lower the standards of living for most Americans. Part of why this is happening is the passive nature of people in America. We have become complacent. We are not demanding enough on these companies that deceive us with their advertising and then don’t give us what they promise.
I am using this as my primary internet as I said because I drive truck and not home enough to warrant getting satellite service, which is my only other option where I live. Realistically when I am on the road I probably will not hit the 5GB limit very often. What sucks is while I am at home I get this lousy EDGE speed. After further checking, Sprint, ATT and Verizon all have 3G from the same tower that TMO gives me 2G and then TMO throttles that to 1G or less. So yes, I’m pissed off. But then I have taken action and voiced my concern to TMO. The result is I’ve been released from my contract. I have the option of going to another provider. The problem is I’m already with the lesser of the evils and next year there will be even less choice. I haven’t been out on the road yet to see what TMO will provide for service then. I will probably keep the service for a while until I see what kind of service I get on the road, and then decide my next move.
Hey guys, anybody else having problem once they activate the AP settings on there phone? I can get my computer to connect to the phone, and yet i can't get access to the internet on my laptop (vista).
Pretty Self explanatory. And if Verizon can tell i am using free tethering, can they do anything about it?
Short answer: With their hotspot app? Yes. With Wireless Tether for Root Users? No.
End. of. story.
Myth busted.
Just don't expect to replace your home ISP with a damn phone and cry when you get smacked with an "unfair usage" fine because you chewed through 26 GB of data.
I'm sure if they cared enough about what you were doing that they could probably deduce you were using it based on packet analysis.
They could make some assumptions based on usage.
I'd say be smart with your usage and don't push it. If you go overboard, it's liable to throw up a red flag and you really won't have any ground to stand on as it's a violation of your TOS. That said, what Verizon don't know won't hurt 'em.
+1. If you are Torrenting, Usenet-ripping, etc.. I'm sure they'll catch on. If you're casually browsing the web, etc. then I bet it would cost them more money to cause a stink than it would to just let it go.
Yes, they can see where your packets are originating from. VZW just hasn't looked yet. There is no program that is a work around, rooted or not. They will probably let it slide till tiered data starts.
Sent from my TBolt using XDA App
uniqueflips said:
Yes, they can see where your packets are originating from. VZW just hasn't looked yet. There is no program that is a work around, rooted or not. They will probably let it slide till tiered data starts.
Sent from my TBolt using XDA App
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True, but you can obscure the source and encrypt the contents of said packets via tunneling through secure proxy or vpn.
yareally said:
True, but you can obscure the source and encrypt the contents of said packets via tunneling through secure proxy or vpn.
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VPN is my plan when they revoke the mobile hotspot. I'll send all my traffic, phone, tablet and laptop through VPN so they can't tell the difference between anything.
All they can see is the top level headers of the packets which will simply show that they are coming to and from a phone. Anything beyond that involves actually inspecting the packet contents which is a horrendous violation of privacy and something they would be successfully sued for doing to customers without their consent.
scook9 said:
All they can see is the top level headers of the packets which will simply show that they are coming to and from a phone. Anything beyond that involves actually inspecting the packet contents which is a horrendous violation of privacy and something they would be successfully sued for doing to customers without their consent.
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More importantly, the PR backlash of doing something like that would be terrible for them - especially since the rules governing Net Neutrality for wireless ISPs are still in flux. They won't risk throwing public opinion even further in favor of increased FCC regulation right now.
It is not an issue of capacity either - a single LTE eNodeB can handle roughly twice the aggregate downstream throughput as a DOCSIS 2.0 node per channel, and there will eventually be more eNodeB's in the country than DOCSIS nodes. Take a moment to think about that - Verizon's LTE will likely more than double the total "network capacity" of the United States once complete. This terrifies Verizon. They want to keep people thinking that cellular networks are fragile little things that can't take the pounding that wireline ISP's can, so people will be OK with being nickeled and dimed for their data. They don't WANT to compete with cable internet providers (even though they would win) because it means they will become a dumb data pipe. Tethering is the last hurdle keeping them from becoming just that, so I wouldn't exactly expect them to play nice.
I know that if the Thunderbolt I am getting gets good signal at my house I would consider dropping my FiOS line haha since they are about the same speed.
Ping would go from like 20ms to 120ms....big whoop still better than most of the country lol
They will see your amount of usage and send you a letter to stop. Just be smart and don't try and download 1GB movies through your phone.
If I decide to stream through my phone they can't do anything about it. Netflix is supported on an Incredible hehe, how can they prove that I do not just like watching TV on my phone alot? Add HBOGo to that and you have ALOT of traffic on the phone that is perfectly justifiable
scook9 said:
If I decide to stream through my phone they can't do anything about it. Netflix is supported on an Incredible hehe, how can they prove that I do not just like watching TV on my phone alot? Add HBOGo to that and you have ALOT of traffic on the phone that is perfectly justifiable
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You'll likely just get throttled as their top 5% throttle policy is impartial to how you used the data. What they classify as top 5% and the throttle speed is still unknown.
I find it hard to believe that they can enforce such a policy without providing some information on how they classify that data usage, otherwise they could throttle everyone and say we were in the top 5% data usage then never have to worry about network congestion
I believe as it keeps getting easier and easier to root phones we'll have more and more people tethering their phones without paying.
That's not too big of a deal, until you get the people who go home and cancel their cable or dsl, and start using their phone as their primary internet source. Not that it would hurt verizon if people did that. But get a few people streaming netflix through their dvd players on LTE and see what that does to verizon's network. It wouldn't take many people doing that before verizon start's paying attention.
The ISP I work for did a test a few weeks back to see exactly how much bandwidth is being used by netflix. We had a little over 30 customers eating up 75% of our bandwidth. that 30 customers was about 10% of our customer base.
Netflix is the largest source of downstream traffic after all haha. My point was, that downstream can come to a phone legitimately without tethering so how will they be able to discriminate on tethering people vs. just netflix users
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Netflix-Sandyvine-BitTorrent-Downstream-Upstream,news-11226.html
IMO, why can cellular providers dictate what we can/can't do with the data we purchase? If home/business ISP's pulled that, there'd be hell to pay and a huge outcry. Data is data. It is that simple but cellular providers are working on a dictation level at every step from hardware and software right down to the kilobytes we use.
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i heard they were going to monitor your usage and start tagging you if they caught you, i use the wireless tether app all the time never heard a word yet
DON'T LET VERISON KILL FREE WIFI
THEY JUST NEVER STOP TRYING!!! STAND UP!!!! SIGN PETITION!!!!!
We have the details on how various Internet Service Providers plan to implement their anti-infringement "six strikes" plans -- and it's not good.
AT&T's plan is to block access to frequently visited sites. Time Warner will constantly redirect you to a landing page. Verizon will plans to reduce connection speeds to the snail pace of 256kbps.
What do all of them have in common? None of them actually let you get up to six strikes -- and all of them have the potential, even as they claim they're not "cutting people off" from the Internet, to make free WiFi almost nonexistent.
Verizon has confirmed that its "six strikes" plan will apply to businesses, not just personal accounts. That means the cafe down the street may end up with essentially unusable WiFi if even one customer abuses the system -- and even terminate their accounts entirely.
We can't let that happen. A free and open Internet is one of the most important tools a democracy can have -- and as long as ISPs like Verizon plan to battle copyright infringement by slowing down or eliminating business's Internet access, that tool will be in jeopardy. Will you join us in urging Verizon not to bow to copyright holders at the expense of their customers?
PETITION TO VERIZON: We call on ISPs like Verizon not to pursue punitive action against businesses that provide free WiFi by slowing down or eliminating their Internet access. Help keep the Internet as free and as open as possible -- revise your "six strikes" plan now!
uh
Verifying something.
Moved to General since its not related, directly, with Tmo Galaxy S III.
Cheers
The government is trying to regulate just about everything these days. If they can't regulate it themselves, they get big companies to regulate it for them. I can't believe how much this country has changed the past 4 years. Regulation and taxes are a growing cancer in this living body we call the U.S.A.
What are you talking about? Are you talking about the anti-piracy measures?
If so, the solution is simple - don't be a **** and download illegal **** (and get caught) while using wifi someone provided for free. That's just rude and in all likelihood a violation of the terms you agreed to when connecting to the free wifi. Not many legitimate businesses are going to be all, "yeah, please come here and torrent ****". Even if it WAS a legal file you'd still be being a pain in their ass by hogging bandwidth.
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