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Hey there,
I'm a Winmo user/fan and have been for a few generations of phones now. My first Winmo device was the HTC/UTStarcom Apache for Verizon (aka the XV-6700). My next upgrade was to the XV6800, which I loved. It served me very well, even when friends around me went on and on about their iPhones, I couldn't help but say how much I loved my phone.
Now, I have the Verizon Touch Pro2 (Rhodium). It really was a natural upgrade for someone who loved full qwerty keyboards, and this phone really didn't disappoint. I pretty much stuck with stock ROMs for a while, from the original Winmo 6.1, to the MR1 update to 6.5, and finally when MR2 landed, I loaded up Mr X's custom ROM, which was the MR2 with some annoyances fixed (he did a great job with it, I picked it up at ppcgeeks.com). With Sense 2.5, I finally got to mod my home screen with Cookie's Home Tab, and it simply rocks. CHT is a very awesome mod.
So, suffice to say, it wasn't all that long ago, I got my phone to the point where I really really liked it. I'm extremely happy with my current phone; I have over a year left on my contract. Which gives me plenty of time to think about what's next. Where do I go from here?
So, what is next??
Hardware is just going to keep getting better and better. I'm not really worried about that so much as I am what OS I use.
I love Winmo simply because it is so customizable. It isn't all that hard to get it to do what you want it to do. Most times, all you have to do is look around, and someone already solved the problem you're working on.
Windows Phone 7 doesn't really appeal to me. I can certainly see why it would appeal to other people, but it doesn't look like its going to really be my type of phone OS. Honestly, if I wanted the type of OS Microsoft iss building, I would much rather go with an iPhone. And, for that matter, if a CDMA version of iPhone hits the big VZW I might really think about it.
And then there is the new kid on the block (sort of). Android.
Android intrigues me. So much so, that I tried installing the Project Android Port on my TP2. Gotta love Haret. I started with the basic ROM that looks a lot like the UI for the Motorola Droid. It wasn't too bad, but the ROM ran rather poorly on my device. Then, later on, I installed the Klinux version, that has the Sense UI on top of Android. I think I really like that interface. It rocks. The port is still a little slow, but its also running off of a SD card, and its not really a 100% working port yet.
Now, I think I like the Sense UI implementation in Winmo more than I do the implementation in Android. However, HTC has done a fine job with it on Android, and it's got a lot of potential.
So, I'm really starting to think now, "Could my next phone be an Android device?" And to be honest, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's an open platform, it's very customizable (why I liked Winmo so much), and it seems to be picking up steam in the Apps category (sometimes I'm jealous that I can get an app for something on my Android port and not on Winmo).
But, what would be nice to have, in my mind, is a little more help from the big G itself. Google already has a feature with its Gmail application that allows you to basically tell Gmail to log into your other email address (that you are presumably trying to switch from) and it will pretty much import all of your old messages and contacts, etc.
I think it would be really spectacular if they could do the same thing for Winmo users. Basically, have a new site --> phone.google.com (or something similar), and have it be your cloud based backup location for everything that doesn't get synced now from Google. Sync up all of your SMS Text Messages, your documents stored on your phone, music, videos, and photos. Also, it can be a portal linking you to other Google apps like your calendar and contacts. And then, give this new site the ability to log into myphone.microsoft.com and pull all of the old stored data from there.
It would be perfect for someone like me who has all of his content there. Bam, all of your saved SMS messages... pulled over from MS to Google, and you don't miss a beat with them. Seriously, SMS is becoming as important as email for a lot of people. I hate having to lose texts, so when MS offered MyPhone and the ability to back them up, I was all over that.
Heck, Google could even improve upon what MS started. Have customizable settings, where if any SMS is older than a certain date, it gets archived in the cloud (so its still stored and searchable), but your device doesn't have to get bogged down with actual files, and older messages that have been archived get automatically removed from your device. If your device gets wiped, and you reinstall everything, when it syncs up, you pull back all of the messages that are newer that "X" date, while everything else older than "X" stays in the cloud in your archives. They could make the data exportable... its just data in a database, you could export to a spreadsheet like Excel, or Google Docs equivalent. Give people options, they'll love you for it.
I'm sure that there is only a small fraction of their userbase that is coming from Winmo over to Android, so I really don't expect them to do this... but wouldn't it be nice. They'd surely win me over with it. I know, somewhere out there, there is an SMS backup application for Android, but it sends your SMS messages to an email account to be backed up there. I think a dedicated system in place for backing up, restoring, and archiving SMS would be better. To me, its one of the missing pieces to Android's way of doing things.
If any of you out there have any thoughts on this, why not comment. I'd love to hear other ideas that people have regarding this.
(Also, I couldn't really figure out a good place to post this, so "General" seemed as good a place as any. If any mods see fit to move this to somewhere better, go for it.)
I agree with this completely. I'm a big Winmo advocate, and I love the customiseablity that it gives. I've pretty much got my device to the point of perfection, and I'm practically in love at this point. Anyway so I decided to give android a go on my device, and at first I was pissed that they tried to force me to register a google account, which I was unwilling to do. I somehow got it to work and I quite liked it in all honesty. I bought my topaz outright, so I don't plan on getting a new phone anytime soon, but Android intrigues me and if there isn't any new WinMo or something in the future, that will be what I will switch to.
Switching for me wouldn't be a problem, I don't really have anything that I can't backup to an sd card so thats not a problem for me.
Android is 3 thime more customizeable than winmo, I switch from winmo to android and LOVED WINMO but now I can't stand it GET ANDROID
Sent from my myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
The wonders of the cloud... seriously. MS had a good thing going with the KIN and KIN Studio, where it would upload every single thing to a server in the cloud- pictures, videos, favorites, status updates, etc. And everything you put on the cloud from your PC would beam back down to your phone (contacts!).
Google could probably easily push this very easily- their cloud services are extremely powerful already, so I don't see why they couldn't and shouldn't.
I have a loyalty towards WinMo from having used the Touch Dual, Touch Diamond, and Touch Pro2.
But it's getting very difficult to defend WinMo. It basically comes down to WinMo gives users the option to tweak everything about the OS. You can make the OS look like whatever you want it to. You can tweak it for performance. But let's stop and think about this for a moment.
1. Why do we tweak the aesthetics of the OS?
We do it because the the OS looks ugly and outdated. The main look of the OS hasn't changed in over 10 years! We do it because it's not fingerfriendly since the OS was designed to be used with a stylus.
2. Why do we tweak the OS for performance?
We do it because despite the OS being known for multi-tasking, it just doesn't now how to handle RAM very effectively.
So far with Android, I've been able to do everything I could on WinMo. Plus, the OS looks modern and performance is excellent. Aesthetically and in terms of performance, Android is significantly much much better. So what's the reason for staying with WinMo? I can't think of a legitimate reason anymore...
Thanks for the input folks! ohyeahar, you make some very good points, and its some of the things that I have been mulling over myself.
I think my biggest point, is that Google has a chance to really improve its cloud based services with their phones, and I hope they do.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/28/new-licensing-service-replacing-existing-copy-protection-metho/
Looks like pretty soon the days of people copy and pasting apk's all over the place are coming to an end.
I hope this doesn't make theming harder.. We'll see.
From reading that article,
Seems like airplane mode or a firewall would crush all the hopes and dreams of google and app devs.
It seems that every time we open an app it needs to verify that it's been paid for by contacting a "licensing" server and retrieving a response.
I feel like that could slow down launch times, and being unable to use an app when offline would be like UBISOFT hell all over again.
I really hope google puts a lot of thought into this..
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
what if you are in an area with no signal or on a plane or something? you cant open any apps???
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
simplyphp said:
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
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I've heard of couples sharing the same email as apps get replicated on the two phone
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
cahiatt said:
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Now that's a problem I understand about paying for apps but not working when I'm in a place with no signal. I see a law suit brewing up. I paid for the app I should be able to use the app whenever I want to. Class action law suit coming real soon.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Crap....
"A limitation of copy protection is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, a copy-protected application cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access"
...Seriously???
EDIT - the above quote was misrepresented in the place I copied from...research shows it to be misleading. the actual bit of Google's text is posted over on page to of this thread. disregard my indignation in this post...
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
willwgp said:
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
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You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
well how many ppl do actually piracy apps??? oh my bad forgot that this is Android, for a second i though it was apple!!
Just to clarify a couple of things:
There are 2 ways to use the Licensing - one is Strict - you CAN NOT USE THE APP WITHOUT ACCESS TO MARKETPLACE. Personally, screw that.
Option 2, however, is a non-strict policy. Server managed, where the license is 'cached' to storage. You also can programmatically set how long your app can be used without any license check.
That'd be the way i go
josue85 said:
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
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That'll be up to the developer. I like this approach, as I'd be happy to do say... a 5-7 day turn around on the license check. After 7 days with no data signal, seriously, where the hell are you? LOL
Besides, if you've used a paid app for 7 days, and by that time can't decide if you need it or not - wow.
And of course, as soon as you got signal again, the license check would go through and you can use the app again, no problem.
I'm sure there will be UbiSoft and EA style implementations though - way too damn draconian for my tastes. I don't care to know every single second that someone's using my app. I would just like to know that they haven't 'copied that floppy' as it were LOL
I have no doubts this will be defeated in time, though. All it would really take is mimicking the server license response, which can be extracted from the locally cached license of an actual paid product.
People that pirate software are going to do it, regardless. Don't make the honest people pay the price of draconian DRM.
The best approach I can make as a developer, is give my customers the features they want, in a stable, good performing package, and discourage 'casual' piracy. Beyond that, it's out of the developer's control, and honestly, any more than that usually just pisses off the customer and annoys the pirates for about a day and a half.
Ok...had to read the SDK paperwork as I really wanted to know this...my previous post was incorrect and here is the update...
From Google:
Android Market Licensing is a flexible, secure mechanism for controlling access to your applications. It effectively replaces the copy-protection mechanism offered on Android Market and gives you wider distribution potential for your applications.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
With Android Market licensing, you can move to a license-based model in which access is not bound to the characteristics of the host device, but to your publisher account on Android Market and the licensing policy that you define. Your application can be installed and controlled on any compatible device on any storage, including SD card.
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Click to collapse
Also...there are options for the Devs to allow for apps to be used a chosen number of times before they need to check in for licenses. Strict has to check in every time....other option allows dev to choose based on times used or time since last check in.
SO...all in all I am much less worried about this now.
topdnbass said:
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
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With licensing the dev can choose whether an app can be accessed from different phones. It is an option...
(greeked...multiple times)
Question: Does that mean we won't be able to open, modify, and resign apks? Like...to change the appearance (make a widget clear, etc).
More like bad news for paying consumers. That's who always pays for everything. Those of us who actually buy the products.
I plan on speaking with my wallet. I wont buy any app that requires I have an internet connection.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
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Click to collapse
Wait so according to google us rooted folk couldn't download copy-protected apps before now?
Urrr, i think im missing something
This is actually a nice implementation for both the software developer and the user. Most will implement this where it only has to check-in every week or two. So the odds of getting caught in a spot where there is no connection is low.
At the end of the day, it is a pretty straightforward way to handle copy protection that really shouldn't inconvenience anyone.
Also it will bring more developers to the platform if they know they don't have to worry as much about piracy.
Piracy will still run rampant. People will find ways to circumvent this, that's just how it is. At least it will curb some piracy since copying and pasting an apk file wasn't much of a deterrent.
There are thousands of complaints made of the past couple years about old devices/apps showing in Market/Play with nothing more than "we're looking into it" response. Being one of those people I contacted Goggle about this and continued to do so until I received something other than the typical run around. After multiple emails back and forth between myself and Google about old devices (or in my case, the same device multiple times) and unwanted/removed/no longer available apps listed in Market/Play accounts, I have finally received a solution but it's not what you think. Google's solution;
"If you create a new GMail account, you will have a clean record of
apps. You could also switch to another phone (outside of the Android
ecosystem)."
So create a new account and repurchase your apps or leave Android. Umm...thanks?
Emails and support forum posts accomplish nothing to resolve this, submitting this to portal may make some progress towards a solution.
I'll choose the latter option. Maybe if enough people do, Google will make at least some attempt at fixing their product.
Sent from my SGH-I777
If this does make portal and spreads to the other sites with no resolution from Google then that may be the only option left.
The excuse that there's no way to purge/clean the DB is laughable at best. If there was no way to do so then purchased apps released by dev's who's accounts have been closed would not have auth fail issues. This happens because the app/dev DB has been removed/purged from the system. This means the functions to maintain the DB are already in place.
I'm guessing that nobody other I cares about this so kill it with fire.
I care a little bit, I think it is ridiculous that there is no option to do this, but I am not about to give up android at this point in time.
Same here, I think Google's reply was the dumbest thing I have ever heard a company say, but I don't think this is a big enough issue to leave android.
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i do find it annoying that old devices of mine still show up in the market...
SGS2 (T989) on CM7_373R6
I can see one reason they don't want to enable this feature. But it's not like they are admitting this is a reason.
If you can delete devices and someone compromises your gmail account they can delete your device.
I'd say a viable solution would be to be able to delete a device if it's been inactive for >6 months
And at least one of my first phones has fallen off the list, but that was a long time ago.
A few months ago, someone hacked my gmail and associated their phone with my account. I have no way of kicking them off my account because Google has a "I can't see it so it's not a problem" attitude.
TimberWolf5871 said:
A few months ago, someone hacked my gmail and associated their phone with my account. I have no way of kicking them off my account because Google has a "I can't see it so it's not a problem" attitude.
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Click to collapse
If you change your password they won't be able to connect to your account anymore, but the device will still show under your account.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4
Long story short -
I own the SM-G925P and I'm very displeased with it after receiving yet another update today that included more bloat ware to the device. I was upset with the last major update as well because it included applications like 'App Spotlight'
App Spotlight allows Sprint to collect money and to push notifications to your device to highlight recommended applications. I don't agree with this practice at all. I found it very annoying back in the Android 2.0 days and was happy when Android effectively killed that in Android 4. I myself as others didn't pay a high premium for a device to be and ad space for Sprint.
The device has native voice mail notification turn off (WMI Support) which forces you to have to use their voice mail application on the device that looks like a 10 year designed it, let alone again, there is premium features and ad space in the application. These are set to on by default and you can turn this off by visiting the application and turning off the Premium feature or by paying something like $2 a month. If you disable the application you lose voice mail notifications all together.
Yes i'm very aware that you can disable some of the applications, I'm also very aware of using Knox IT policy to disable any application I want with out root, but it comes down to I shouldn't have to do this for a device you pay top dollar for.
Right now I'm using Package Disable Pro, I have 202 Packages disabled on my device currently. Not all of it is Sprint no alot of it is Samsung truthfully. Tonight after the update I still have 202 packages disabled and now I have to add an additional 10 or so, or see if they can be uninstalled or deleted from the application manager first.
Do i have a few issues with the device with 202 applications disabled eh yes really only two issues that concern me. One my dialer codes don't work. To lazy to locate the package that has them working, two my google wallet if I use NFC closes. Other than that no I don't and my phone is running better then ever with 0 to very little lag something that Samsung promised and advertised with these devices., but not to our surprise failed to deliverer the first set of issue was the major memory leak form lollipop, honestly this phone sucked the first time out of the box after the first day of use.
Any way long story short I filed a BBB report against them, they are not accredited so I doubt they will care, but I'm looking to have my plans canceled return the devices for a refund reminding on them.
Hows every one else's day going haha?
If you didn't want all that bloatware on your device (which has been the case since...like forever with Touchwiz), why didn't you just get a Nexus?
I doubt anything will happen with the BBB because there really is no false advertising or any misleading issues with your purchase. Now if you had gotten a few lemons and kept getting them replaced to fix an issue...maybe there would be something.
I'm not specifically talking about touchwiz bloat ware. I accepted the fact that touch wiz has its own and Samsung includes its own app store's etc.
What I'm talking about is Sprint's bloat ware, how the device brands it self after activation based on (Virgin mobile/Sprint/Boost etc) when you first power on the device you don't have a ton of applications pre-installed. After activation the device brands it self to either of these carriers based on who you activated it with. Like two voice mail icons / apps (com.sprint.voicemail: yellow icon takes you to voice mail, com.coremobility.app.vnotes: blue icon used for actual notifications and visual voice mail filled with ads unlike other carriers)
Spotlight - again used to push highlighted apps to my device; added during an update was not originally on the device when purchased.
I should have made notes of each additional bloat that was added to the device with each upgrade but I failed to do that, but noted the most annoying one sense I randomly was getting notifications in my notification center. (Mind you I don't have any third party applications installed on my device it is 100% out of box with what ever applications disabled or can be uninstalled).
The point of what I was making on this, is you spend 5-700$ dollars on a device for them to make it an ad supported. I would have been more understanding of ads or pushing bloat to the device with each upgrade if the device was free. They are getting paid to push notifications to your device for featured games/applications etc. I do not agree with this business tactic at all and no where does it state they may do this.
The device was advertised and pushed by sales teams as the fastest device on the market at the time with a lag free experience. I specifically remember the commercial about this. The problem with that is you released a device with a bugged OS knowingly from the beginning ( Android 5.0 memory leak ) many devices that received 5.0 had major issues and lots of people were wanting to downgrade back to 4.X because of it. It wasn't until the 3rd update that it was improved but not resolved. I don't know its current status as I stopped following the issues. The device is no where as fast / lag free as they claim if anything I have had more lag issues with this device then a device on kitkat.
Now what you don't know is that I work with cell phones on a day to day basis, I have my hands on many different devices at a time. Comparing this device to many other devices against other carriers and Sprints specifically is one of the worst between its stupid IOTA services and other things. Comparing this device to the Verizon edge with older software and the Verizon firmware feels more improved then Sprints.
I will have to write more latter, if you were local to me it would be easier for me to point out the issues in person, and if you have similar OCD like mine it will eat at you like it has me.
File a complaint to the BBB and that will get you nothing and nowhere. You can actually disable most of the apps, google play news/games/books/ect.
You put your finger on and app, hold your finger on it and drag it up to the disable option or uninstall on apps you don't want.
amoamare said:
I'm not specifically talking about touchwiz bloat ware. I accepted the fact that touch wiz has its own and Samsung includes its own app store's etc.
What I'm talking about is Sprint's bloat ware, how the device brands it self after activation based on (Virgin mobile/Sprint/Boost etc) when you first power on the device you don't have a ton of applications pre-installed. After activation the device brands it self to either of these carriers based on who you activated it with. Like two voice mail icons / apps (com.sprint.voicemail: yellow icon takes you to voice mail, com.coremobility.app.vnotes: blue icon used for actual notifications and visual voice mail filled with ads unlike other carriers)
Spotlight - again used to push highlighted apps to my device; added during an update was not originally on the device when purchased.
I should have made notes of each additional bloat that was added to the device with each upgrade but I failed to do that, but noted the most annoying one sense I randomly was getting notifications in my notification center. (Mind you I don't have any third party applications installed on my device it is 100% out of box with what ever applications disabled or can be uninstalled).
The point of what I was making on this, is you spend 5-700$ dollars on a device for them to make it an ad supported. I would have been more understanding of ads or pushing bloat to the device with each upgrade if the device was free. They are getting paid to push notifications to your device for featured games/applications etc. I do not agree with this business tactic at all and no where does it state they may do this.
The device was advertised and pushed by sales teams as the fastest device on the market at the time with a lag free experience. I specifically remember the commercial about this. The problem with that is you released a device with a bugged OS knowingly from the beginning ( Android 5.0 memory leak ) many devices that received 5.0 had major issues and lots of people were wanting to downgrade back to 4.X because of it. It wasn't until the 3rd update that it was improved but not resolved. I don't know its current status as I stopped following the issues. The device is no where as fast / lag free as they claim if anything I have had more lag issues with this device then a device on kitkat.
Now what you don't know is that I work with cell phones on a day to day basis, I have my hands on many different devices at a time. Comparing this device to many other devices against other carriers and Sprints specifically is one of the worst between its stupid IOTA services and other things. Comparing this device to the Verizon edge with older software and the Verizon firmware feels more improved then Sprints.
I will have to write more latter, if you were local to me it would be easier for me to point out the issues in person, and if you have similar OCD like mine it will eat at you like it has me.
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Click to collapse
This is nothing new for Sprint either...nor Verizon for that matter. When you activate either of those (and my guess is the other 2 major carriers as well) it connects to the network, downloads necessary as well as licensed apps and drivers. There are a lot more Sprint specific apps that they don't install. Go to Apps and Sprint in Play and see what they could have put on. As mentioned, most of the apps are able to be disabled. With root they can be removed. This has been the case for several iterations of Samsung US phones. My GF's Note 4 did this, I think the S5 and Note 3 did as well. I fail to see how Sprint putting extra programs on your phone is a case for the BBB. But good luck with your case. Again sounds like you should stick to Nexus devices going forward.
This same phone is used on the CDMA network in India so it is more convenient to install carrier specific files upon activation.
I could care less about what comes on a phone being that it's 100% customizable. Hell, be happy it's not as much of a headache as iPhone. If it's not for you then don't buy it. That's what the demos are for in the store. I usually buy a phone, play around with the stock for a few hours, root and customize to my standard. After these last 2 updates, I'm very pleased with the phone
Try this
We all dislike some bloatware, but all carriers include it.
A better option that people can follow along with, is change.org where anyone can start actual community petitions against companies.
I would sign your petition. I'm sure many people will.
BBB is simply not the place for this type of opinion, as Sprint would probably call it just that.
If you disabled over 200 apps, i can bet a large amount of those are system apps that are needed by one thing or another. If you're going to disable things that you aren't sure of, dont complain about nfc not working. The system comes with about 290 total apps, and over 150 of those are required for everything on the device to function properly. And sprint isn't making much money off you paying for the phone. They have to buy them from Samsung, for more than what you even lease the phone for. But its the only way they can cover their asses money wise if they aren't locking people into contracts and giving away a 600 dollar phone for 200 bucks. Do your research before you start ranting and complaining to BBB that literally got off the phone with you and tossed out your complaint
I have googled and searched my fingertips to the bone. Whenever i ask a technical question, i get answers from the clueless and the blind. I am beginning to hate this game.
So here we go. Stock android 4.4.2 ....rooted. How do you control which apps autostart and load in the background? Right now I have been trying to kill the Music app. Nothing works. It always restarts. So that means there is a sticky setting in some file somewhere in the system that needs to be edited that more than likely can not properrly be controlled from the childish controls android offers. In windows this is controlled in the registry and the startup process. Where is this in android? Why does no one share this information?
Yes i know it's dangerous. Yes i know not to putts around in the operating system. But if youre rooted, give us the data to control things.
So i await a learned response that probaly only one of the "developers" can answer. Because it sure as s€£%t ain't out there to be found.
Signed, royally frustrated
I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
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muzzy996 said:
I'm reminded of that saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." Not sure why your posts are so charged but many seasoned developers and posters aren't going to engage in conversation with someone who uses condesending and self righteous tones.
I've never seen detailed posting of how it works, nor do I care to know, but by installing Greenify you can effectively control what you wish to control. Greenify allows you to hibernate applications keeping them asleep until manually called.
Some applications have associated services that are used by other parts of the system or other applications and therefore stay loaded to provide that service. If you also install Xposed Framework it will allow Greenify to inject itself further to keep applications that you choose to hibernate from being called upon by other applications (facebook for example has services that often get called upon by other applications for various reasons and so it can be hard to keep hibernated).
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry. I did not intentionally want to come off as charged or spraying vinegar. Quite the opposite. But I have found, after reading tons of post, that we are living in the land of the blind and hardly anyone with sight is actually participating or for that matter even providing a modicum of usefull data. Beginning to think that I don't blame them.
It seems, after deep searching and research that children are actually in charge. What other explanation can you give for an operating system that is struggling with "basic" features found in DOS or windows 3.1 from 20 years ago. Similar to the slow evolution of linux, itself which only now, barely, is win xp like in its features after decades as a skeletal nightmare to load and setup.
You may not have caught the news a few months ago, but Samsung was floating the idea of abandoning android for a flavored and skinned version of linux for future devices, both phones and tablets.p, starting with the China market.
Tell me that Microsoft did not head that off by providing reciprocal licensing to Samsung for windows 10 to abandoning linux. Would not be suprised if we start seeing win10 handsets in the near future here.
Once android looses support from major manufacturers, then it is DEAD.
Read every other post and you will see the lament about the quality of google store apps.
So when I ask a specific, technical question requiring a precise answer.....which requires actual proframming skill.....which has yet to appear...you can see how the lack of response to that colors the situation.
If I offended anyone, I apologize. I get excited sometimes. Repeatedly slamming ones head against the wall, figuratively tends to make you anxious.
At this rate, my raw participation on these boards may be curtailed if I continue with this sense of useless effort.
Sorry to make anyone upset. You can let the kids back in the room. I think there is ice cream.
Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?
ShadowLea said:
Have you considered freezing the processes you want to prevent from running with Titanium Backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.
mjkurke said:
Titanium backup would work. The other option since you are rooted is to just remove the offending music app. I don't mind the samsung music app, but I don't find it absolutely necessary either. You could also uninstall the updates and force stop the app. That should also keep it from starting.
Another option that I haven't looked at completely but might work is the app "tasker" that lets you assign certain apps to start only when you want them too. So you could have the music app start only when you tap on media files. But I haven't tried this myself.
The problem currently with asking technical questions about the note pro is that it's a low selling device from 2014 so it just doesn't get much action on the forums anymore. It's a bummer for such a great device but that's how it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Options like freezing in Titanium or using Greenify have already been addressed. Tasker is good for starting things but not so good at keeping things killed, not the proper tool to use for the job of keeping apps from loading.
My strategy:
1) Freeze anything that's safe to freeze that I know I'll never use in Titanium first. That way they never pre-cache into memory.
2) Greenify applications that I rarely use so that they don't pre-cache, taking care not to greenify applications that need to stay loaded to operate properly (like email clients, weather apps or messaging apps).
In the end on a clean boot my application/precache list is full of my commonly used apps. I worry not about how much free RAM I have, as long as the list of apps in RAM/cache is populated with the stuff that I commonly use.
NOW, all of that said if you're looking for something that works like windows startup manager then installing Xposed Framework and then BootManager is the way to go. I've done this in the past but find that employing freezing and greenify is good enough for my own needs so I've stopped.
globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to suspect you have greatly misunderstood the meaning of root access. From what it sounds like, you seem to think it miraculously gives you access to settings and functions that non-rooted users can't see. Which is why you can't seem to get the answers you seek.
There is no such thing as a root-menu. Android does not have that functionality build into its GUI.
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.
ShadowLea said:
Root access simply means administrator access to the system's root directories. Hence the word Root.
You will always need additional apps and software to root access to change functionality. Titanium Backup, Xposed, SuperUser/SuperSU, etcetera.
If you want those options in the system, you'll need a customROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right and even with a custom ROM you can't run away from using 3rd party utilities to make the tweaks. Custom is usually a good start though as they are typically debloated. Civato's is good for lightly modified stock with xposed baked in.
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Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.
globalsearch said:
Now we are getting somewhere. So what you have all told me is that stock android, even when rooted, is still a sandbox with all kinds of limitations to customization. Even with apps to tweak some of it.
This is the nail in the coffin for me and android then. Im not in the least interested in all those custom roms where there is always some shortcoming or lack of support for a feature that does not work properly.
Thanks all. I am done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.
firefly6240 said:
for what its worth I do have your answer, better late than never right?
anyways android is built on a linux kernal and normally access to the linux command line does not come pre-installed to keep normal people from messing up their system.
so you will need to download a terminal emulator app if you don't already have one if you plan to do this from android. (Alternatively you can do it from the android debug bridge while connected to a computer if preferred)
First you will want to get the package name for the app you want to disable.
you can do this with a root file browser app by going to system / Data / App and then finding the package you want to disable.
however since it sounds like you want to do this manually we will go over the terminal process:
open a terminal window.
type: su
Hit: enter
the terminal will ask you for root access, go ahead and grant it.
to list the android packages type: pm list packages
hit: enter
This will show a list of the installed packages (Apps)
find the ones you want to disable.
now type: pm disable insertpackagename
hit: enter
for example to disable youtube type: pm disable com.google.android.youtube
Hit: Enter
that's it.
you will likely want to restart your launcher or even just restart the tablet afterwards as most launchers don't constantly poll for disabled apps so it will need a refresh.
also you probably already realise this so I apologise if its redundant but make sure you know what you are disabling
as with any linux environment disabling system packages and packages that another application is dependant on can cause trouble.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
globalsearch said:
Low selling are not the words. More like abandoned. Samsung has moved away. My questions where android specific. "Freezing" apps, using a convoluted set of more apps to control unwanted apps, ridiculous. It is all ridiculous. Either root gives control or it does not.
I want full control, what runs, what doesn't, what runs in the background. Is that not why we root? So a comprehensive list of whats what WOULD RREEEAAAALLLLYYY HELP.
I am alone in the wilderness screaming at the trees demanding to know why it rains.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I would clarify a bit here, I know how confusing it can be coming from windows, I made the switch myself not so many years ago and had a lot of the same questions.
to explain root, the closest comparison I have imperfect as it may be is that root access is similar to windows admin access.
the noticeable difference in a lot of cases is what comes pre-installed.
for example in windows if you have an admin account it automatically unlocks access to the command prompt which was already pre-installed.
in android root access gives you the option to use a terminal but often one is not pre-installed, in fact even a file manager is often not included.
this is actually not a limitation of android so much as a limitation put in place by the specific device manufacturer as to what comes pre-installed.
for example a lot of cheap android tablets running google AOSP (Android open source Project) code actually do come with terminal apps and in some cases even come pre-loaded with root access.
in comparison a lot of more well known devices do not come with this pre-loaded to prevent people from breaking things. (For a windows comparison, its hard to delete the system32 folder without admin access, a file browser and command prompt right?)
As far as samsung abandonment, its a bit trickier there.
Basically what you would normally be used to is the Microsoft scenario.
1. Microsoft - Microsoft makes the OS but it runs on hardware made by others.
a. hardware issues go to the hardware manufacturer for as long as they support it.
b. OS updates are handled by Microsoft, they have more or less full control of the OS as it is closed source.
2. the Samsung Scenario - The hardware is made by the manufacturer, the bootloaders are locked, the OS is made by Google and then tweaked by the manufacturer.
a. all official updates come through the manufacturer (In this case Samsung) after google releases the open source code, samsung then alters it as they like and then they release an update.
b. Samsung is the sole support for the hardware and software as google no longer supports the software for the most part after its been altered.
c. it takes a lot of time and work for samsung to develop an update and push it out and then deal with all of the issues that come with updating the OS.
d. its often easier to leave a device that comparatively very few people bought on an OS that they knew was usable rather than spend all the time and money updating it and dealing with all of the related issues.
With that in mind this tablet has been out for about 2 years now which is a huge amount of time for this type of hardware.
All that being said Samsung very recently released the update to android 5.1.1 for this tablet
so it is definitely not abandoned yet, in fact its had more attention than even other devices by the same manufacturer but I suspect 5.1.1 will be the last official update we see.
if you have one of the note variants with an unlockable bootloader as well as a bit of time on your hands I would very much recommend trying a custom rom if you are worried about samsung abandonment.
you may have to try several different ones though, as you'll find a mix of roms that may seem almost half baked, more alpha release style but are cutting edge (I like those ones myself) to roms that are even more stable than the original.
My apologies if some of this is redundant information, I just thought I would throw in my two cents in case it helps
Two points . . for what its worth . . 1) the use of package manager's disable command effectively does the same thing that freezing in Titanium does, the main difference being that you're using a GUI to do it (there can be differences in how the apps are flagged though and using the pm command means not having to rely on yet another app); 2) disabling/freezing means you'll be unable to ever launch said application unless you enable the app again manually (using the package manager PM commands or Titanium).
Main reason in my initial response I didn't go straight to freezing/disabling apps is because that approach isn't exactly the same thing as managing startup in the context of the example given about managing what apps start up on boot in Windows (i.e. msconfig command and unchecking startup options). When someone takes an app out of startup in Windows the software isn't permanently disabled (unavailable) it is merely prevented from preloading when the system is started. So . . in reference to the music app referred to in the original post, if the goal is to be able to use the stock music app but just not have it load itself into memory on its own then the solution isnt disabling it or freezing it, its to hibernate it with something like Greenify or prevent it from starting using something like Boot Manager and Xposed Framework.
Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420
globalsearch said:
Firefly6240 got exactly what I was asking for. Freezing and hybernating, et al, is not total control. When i kill an app and i want it gone. I want it gone. Example, the google music, google books and google films. I gave stopped, killed even "uninstalled" in Purify and in Kingroot. On random reboot, the buggers are back. Fireflys solution is ceasars thumbs down. Wonderful. He understood the TOTAL control I was looking for.
Also, i loaded android terminal to run the commands.
By the way, Knox and EML are next on my list.
Thanks again firefly6420
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK good, then I misunderstood the question. Hibernation has its place, it's just not what you wanted, you wanted complete uninstallation basically.
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like it or not, OEMs, even Google cannot just give the public ready-made controls to such things because the way a lot of (non-essential but) pre-installed apps are designed they depends on other apps being present and/or running.
AppOps was a classic example cuz once ppl found it and made public how to take advantage, a lot of dependant apps and services were affected and people called in to their OEMs complaining of broken phones when it was simply tinkered permissions.
there is no mobile OS more robust than android. all have their forms of depth, appeal, features and restrictions but none embrace admin access & leaving open the ability to do it more than android (just need the carrier and sometimes OEM to leave the bootloader the hell alone lol)
if you want a smartphone with admin privileges out-of-the-box and full control of all system services etc, I would recommend an Ubuntu phone. they're about a year into commercial availability which is still kinda fringe but stable and will lack certain major perks of owning either iOS (yuck!) or Android. there is a couple Ubuntu/android dual boot phones out there too, and that comes with the issue of storage space after holding 2 OS's
in another year or 2 Ubuntu phones should be more plentiful and bring over some popular apps and active development but I don't anticipate seeing it take off quite like other mobile OS's cuz when it comes to feeding the masses, more options and less restrictions can have the same effect as asking an 80 year old to put in an address on your navigation in the car while you're on the highway. it's a learning curve simple to some that seems too simple not to understand but can be bad for business.
I think android and iOS beat this problem initially because when they started, there weren't any other well-established alternatives. BlackBerry and some fringe PDAs were about it...
Note pro 12.2
I was/am dealing with the Note Pro 12.2 specifically. Not other handsets. This device is coming up on two years and support has been waning. When I bought it all was well. Less than a few months later the damned KitKat update came and suddenly I found myself without proper access to the external sd card, that had worked perfectly when i purchased the unit. I was furious. Especially when we where being told that it was for our own good and google was pushing internal memory over external. Damn them. I bought samsung BECAUSE it had the sd slot. And when Samsung did not provide the fix to the platform.xml file I was livid. 5.01 came out and Samsung destoyed support for most external blue tooth keyboards. And so it goes, one stupid blunder after another. Their updates destroyed my workflow.
So yes, damned right I want full control of my device, because they have shown they have NO regard for our needs and DO NOT ADDRESS our concerns. Just buy our stuff and shut up. Well in this case, i was sold a product that they later incapacitated.
I can not abide with that. I tried so hard not to root, for a year and a half. I shut off automatic updates on EVERYTHING because even updates from google play would sometimes destroy a goid priducy. I started saving apks from versions of apps that worked. I stayed stock 4.4.2 because everything worked but the sd write. How many threads do we have here where people upgraded to marshmellow and then begged to get back to kitkat? Last week after reading thread after thread of problems and convoluted fixes and a gazillion rom versions each of which has its own imperfections and then reading that the new samsung tablet was released windows 10. I knew it was over.
At that moment the decision was inevitable. I rooted and IMMEDIATELY fixed the sd write issue. And i unrooted. Two days of random reboots and i roited again, this time to take the bull by the hirns and control this thing. I became increasingly frustrated with the lack of displayed technical knowledge here at xda and the tons pf advice from also clueless posters. I tried everything. Even got scolded by an admin who has been here less time than me. (Follow the rules, follow the rules...don't you dare to ask the important questions)
Not till the reply from firefly6240. Now he knows something. And he shared a little with me. Which i greatly appreciated. I have a direction now. And the tweaks I have done have increased my battery tije, the screen reojse time and overall improvement of the environment. All on 4.4.2.
I still have some minor issues, but google and android code monkeys WILL NO LONGER CONTROL MY DEVICE, MY PROPERTY.
It is time people take control of the ELECTRONIC items which we purchase with OUR hard earned money and stop letting manufacturers turn those devices into nothing more than sales portals to make more money and deny us control or the ability to JUST SAY NO.