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I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
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.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
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Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
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This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
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They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
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F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
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Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
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Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
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while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
I think everyone that replies should encourage people to search for themselves and put things in the proper forums.
I know it falls on deaf ears as most people want to be spoon fed - it is just to much work to read 30 pages of a thread to understand how something works - they just want the short answer. Then they complain when they miss a step and break something.
I agree. It seems like they just started recently. Ive had my phone since launch and it hasnt been like this. It does get annoying to see dumb questions but most on here its our first android phone ( backflip and aria didnt really cut it).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
gunnyman said:
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
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If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ashoooo said:
If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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LOL 10chars
gunnyman said:
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
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I do notice the large amount of people that seem to ask questions that have already been covered or start cloned threads that do not need repeated. You could view it as overly eager people who want to jump into the community before getting to know it or as people to lazy to do a search and/or read some existing threads.
Either way, I always felt ignoring the post seems to be a better option than making a negative comment. I think you are correct in saying this does not "foster a growing community."
Do keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to search for the correct answer or how to word a question when you are new to a subject. Back in my first few weeks of XDA on my old tilt, I felt a bit bombarded by new terminology and confusing tutorials. More experienced members should be able to determine if an OP is partialy ignorant or just plain lazy. I say when in doubt, ignore it.
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I think another factor is that just now many people are just being introduced to smart phones. And that in turn probably is causing many new forum users to come on board. I mean new to forums, period. So they may not know the methods, and protocols expected.
It's interesting that I see in many forums that some people will expend more effort griping or castigating someone than it would take to just answer the question, or ignore the post/thread if it is one that doesn't interest them.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
ewingr said:
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
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In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
Shovelhead84 said:
In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
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I put them on ignore so I don't say something banworthy to them. It's the best form of self moderation for me.
I understand your point, but having the developement section tampered with unnecessary threads hampers its readability. And to many it is fundamental to keep up with multiple threads in there.
I'm not the kind of person that goes around bashing new users, but I did notice an increase in such threads lately, and although "thread nazis" can be just as annoying, don't forget there's no personal gain for them in it: they're just trying to keep the forum as clean and readable as possible.
I mean, there is a reason to have a Q&A section: using it would actually make it resourceful for newcomers while keeping developement clean.
I actually would say there haven't been many "thread nazis" in the Captivate forums. I read development for the most part and there are MANY questions (hell half of them start with [Q] that have NOTHING to do with development, people just want a question answered for them) that just belong in Q&A.
Most of the people (most, not all) tell people that they are in the wrong section but usually still provide the answer in hopes of letting the thread die. asking how a command works in adb does not count as captivate-specific android development.
it's important to remind people that the development section should be left for DEVELOPING android on the phone or TESTING new developments on the phone (or thinktanks and the occasional request for apps that would have to be dev'd to get functional)
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
In my begginings in this forum I'm ashamed to admit that I acted like one too. But now what I do is when I see an out of place thread I reply very succinctly almost bordering on a terse response and then I suggest the Q&A section.
I then proceed to answer as many questions as I can for 5 min in an effort to make the Q&A section the best it can be and not clutter the rest of the sections.
boborone said:
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
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I find the search function works very well.
As for not liking references to google - I don't see the problem - OK, maybe you were looking for more specific information, but like all things, likes of forums is suggestive. So why not use google, search for Android forums, then pick the ones you like.
So many questions are answered by using google but no one tries that, so unless someone says "I have tried google, and only find X - but I want Y" then a response that says "try Google" is not out of line.
My $0.02 has always been this ...
We were all noobs once. When I was a noob I had enough sense to spend time and effort rooting around XDA to learn about my new (at the time) device before I started to ask questions.
Whether it's here, or on any other message board in cyberspace, that is the standard level of expectation that the senior members of the forum have. Experienced members want to help people and often spend a lot of time adding their experience to the forum, but they also want the new members to try to help themselves first. When they see someone ask a question that's answered in a 'sticky' at the top of the page or one or two posts below on the first page, it can be amazingly frustrating, and as others have said, it unnecessarily clutters up the forum.
So yes, sometimes people are harsh. Personally, if it at least looks like someone has tried to find and answer but can't figure something out, I'm always happy to help. Those who make their very first XDA post a question that has been asked and answered many times will get a 'search is a beautiful thing' response from me with a link to the post where the answer is. It's a subtle jab, yes, but at the same time the poster gets an answer. It's not meant to be a 'Thread Nazi'.
Hopefully that nudges them down the path of looking first and not expecting to be spoon fed everything, and to the realization that the forum doesn't exist simply to be a place to pop in and ask a question and go. Every time I pick up a new device and move to a new forum I see a ton of this ... one hit wonders that you never see again.
I I don't have a problem with that at all.
But what value does "hey you should have posted that somewhere else dumbass" provide. especially in "Dev"
I mean General is the catch all
Q&A is kind of basic
Themes and Apps are self explanatory.
I see dev section as the "hey I wanna break stuff" department. If the answer to a question could break stuff I say it's a dev question.
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
smokestack76 said:
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
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Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
zelendel said:
Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
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Yes this rocks!!! I guess my talks with a few people worked Glad to see ya here
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
It seems lately there has been alot of negativity towards people asking questions. There have been far too many replies to questions with people complaining about the question, and the complaint takes longer to post than the answer. If you don't want to answer someones question, don't open the thread!! This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful community. There will always be different levels of experience. There is not 1 person on this forum that has never experienced the panic factor when they thought they messed up their phone. Let's keep that in mind when someone asks a question without doing an extensive search first.
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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+10,000
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Well yes that's true and all but the OP has a point when he said everyone has that panic attack and doesnt bother looking before posting I mean seriously when you think your really screwed over and may have just wasted $400 I know now I'd probably look first but when I first started out with my good ol G1 I flipped **** man! Its still bricked, sitting in a shelf somewhere. But I became more experienced as I moved from MT3G to MT4G so yea noobs to forums will always be an issue here I mean really in what forum aren't they? But its better to be supportive than criticize the new Guy with a broken phone by saying 'go look in this thread or this or this or this' I mean it just makes em feel bad. This is hypocritical since I know I have a few posts criticizing noons on here for posting but whatever it happens.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
I agree with people generally needing to read up on as much as they can, especially when they're starting with android and/or rooting, but I will say there's something nice about having a chat about your particular situation. Reading an old thread often has useful information, but I could definitely see how a poster might need/want more specific, personalized advice that meets whatever issue they're having head-on. And often, I know I've been researching a particular issue, will find old threads on it, but still need additional clarification.
Obviously, people should be able to help themselves as much as possible - but in the end, that's why this is a forum, and not a tech blog, so that people CAN have discourse about common areas of interest and, hopefully, help one another out.
lowandbehold said:
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
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Okay i wasn't going to say a damn thing till i saw this line.
You are 100% correct we are not officially the Android Police or Phone Police. However neither are you. WE are not telling people what to do with their devices. We are simply throwing up road blocks. As if to say....
do not proceed the bridge is out
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and you you keep on going and ignore the blatant warnings and crash and burn you shouldn't come here crying that you jacked something. On the same note we did not force you to do anything to your phone. No one from XDA held a Glock 19 and uttered the words " ROOT YOUR MUTHA EFFING PHONE OR WE KILL YOU".... you chose to do it willingly. And you should be man enough to say well i screwed my phone and i need to fix it.
9/10 people here will answer the question at hand. regardless of its "how do i root my phone", "how do i flash an image" or what ever else have you. but it someone has a low post count we will absolutely throw warnings out there. Android devices are mini Linux Computers. Now i do not claim to be a *UNIX guru, nor do i claim to be an Android guru, but i've seen enough people to brick their phones do routine things to know better......
I joined XDA because i was tired of the drama on Android Central and Cracberry's Android section. I wanted to find a good group of guys with similar interest, with similar phones and the exact same motto.
Someone once helped me with Android, and i feel i need to do the same.
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and i found XDA, i lurked for a while and thought this a good place to be....
just because you see "negative comments" doesn't mean we don't have the best intent in our hearts. We just understand what can come with things are done incorrectly.
And to finish up to answer your question "where is the love", sometimes the best love one can show is tough love, it might not appear to be there now, but down the road.... well hind sight is always 20/20.
I've struggled conceptually countless times on these forums and people have been gracious enough to help me out, but the couple of times I thought I might have actually messed up my phone the first thought that entered my head wasn't "OH SH!T, let me write an incoherent post in the first forum i see and wait for my savior," it was "you idiot, you read about this possibility and now you have a worthless piece of electronics, maybe next time you won't be so stupid." I then researched my issue and, luckily, found a solution. You can learn how to do ANYTHING on the internet these days, that's the beauty of global communication. I just think most people get frustrated when someone asks another to take time out of their day to assist them when it is clear by their post that they didn't even take the time to help themselves, you know?
No one here has a problem with helping someone out; that is clear by sheer number of question posts that get answered daily- especially when people follow the forum guidelines and at least attempt to present their issue with as much detail as possible. It's the "SOMEONE HELP ME CLOCKWORK BROKE MY PHONE" posted in the development section that cause more trouble than anything.
Just like there were many threads complaining about people not answering questions or being hostile to newbs.
Here's the very basic explanation on how to not make an ass out of yourself and save us all from answering the same thing over and over again:
1. Read BEFORE you do something
2. Read and UNDERSTAND what you're about to do, again, BEFORE you do it.
3. If anything goes wrong - take a step back to think what you did, have a smoke/drink/whatever you do and relax. Search for an answer on similar situation, bet you money it has been answered before. If all fails, write up well-organized, informative post with all info (what you had, what you did and what happened) and be patient. 5 threads within 2 hrs will not get you any farther.
Good luck to all.
People dont mind helping or answering questions its just that no one honestly reads before posting. 9 out of 10 questions have answers within the forum.
Sent From My Evil Glacier Using Xda Premium App.
Charle is 100% percent correct in his statement. In all honesty all the information for rooting, flashing recovery, custom roms are in the development section under the rom bible in the development section. The hard part has already been done for us.
I 100% agree that you should read ALOT before deciding to root. I read everything and watched videos for over a week before deciding to root.
The main point I was trying to make is that if you are sick of answering the same question, don't answer it. Just don't type anything. Hit the back button. There is no need for the rude remarks.
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
lowandbehold said:
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
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I apologize, i'm at work and and got heated about something here and really shouldn't of posted that....and when i saw "where is the love", knowing how much i try to help people out around here... it just really bothered me....
you line made it sound like, if we have some one that pops and their very first post is "how do i root my phone" we should bow down and help them. With out throwing any warnings out. just here is how to do it and explain step by step how to.
First of all i will throw out warnings, i will never ward anyone away from doing what they want to do with their device. After all it's their money they are gambling with.
secondly when i bought my first android (mytouch3G) phone i bought with a stock recovery image and a working bootloader and i had to figure everything else from there. I had to learn quickly, if i wanted my phone up and running. So thanks for the props on being knowledgeable, but it was something i pretty much had to do. And people read on BGR, Android Central, or what ever popular bog site about XDA members did this and XDA members did that they jump on here and expect us to hold their hand. People have very well laid out threads on how do do certain things. The reason i treat others the way i do when it comes to problem solving is pretty simple. I had someone do the same for me. A higher up for T-Mobile that took the time and showed me how to do what i needed done. And that kinda what my idea of the Android community is. People helping people, for the fun and enjoyment of it.
with that being said....
With True_blue, Option94, faux123 not to mention another 1/2 dozen good developers and highly knowledgeable people that put things out in black and white, easy to understand English their should be no reason why so many of the same exact threads show up. You can type in just about any Android problem or request in Google and it'll lead you to XDA, and the thread in question. Just like the thread with the guy that just posted " how do i get 2.3, the nexus s variant on my phone"... step one should of been research in stead of starting a new thread....It's the laziness that bothers me. Like with programs like Super Manager and Root Explorer, people are to lazy to learn the ADB commands.... Clockwork ROM manager, people are to lazy to flash a recovery image. Or flashing a ROM go south... did you check the MD5sum? "nope, whats that"... it's just pure laziness that bothers me...
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
lowandbehold said:
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
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I was one of them idiots that had that cnt mount cache or data issue with my phone,worst thing ever lol...Anyway instead of askin questions on 1 or 2 threads,it went to a bunch of different threads & it did get a lil annoyin cause we all tryin to find a fix but cnt really lock on one cause its soo many diff threads,its just all over the place,if people would just calm dwn & wait for the thread to get answered all would be good but people are impatient & start new threads of the same BS.....
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
UntamedDeviance said:
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good example but pretty useless lol.. honestly I enjoy helping out people that's why I'm around here. Helping people makes me feel accomplished no matter what the scenario but fixing the same thing over and over gets to the point where its redundant and you want to get the point across to hit the search button. Hell most of the time ill even link to the thread but when I'm on my phone like I am currently I can't. I enjoy helping but I enjoy even more helping people who can help themselves.
Sent from my HTC Glaciee using XDA Premium App
i totally agree with neidlinger on his points. I started with a G1, Mytouch 3g, mytouch slide, and now MT4G. I read everything i could get my hands on how to root and reread it again. If i still didn't understand something, then i would ask a question or search for it. Most of the posts i read nowadays, people want to be spoon-fed out of sheer laziness.
If the questions posed in these forums were even half as thought out as the comments in this thread, 95% of the snappy remarks would disappear. People want to know they are assisting someone who values that assistance. One or two sentences rarely creates that picture.
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
Ryanmo5 said:
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
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I commend you. I could imagine your task at hand is like trying to clean up the streets of St Louis by yourself. It has become anarchy here, just people running their mouth with no consequence. You deleted one of my posts because it became off topic, I was actually happy, because it was deserved.
My only suggestion is consequence. I know it's hard to really "punish" someone over the internet, but any kind of action should be taken to breaking the rules.
Thanks for taking your time just to read post over post, just to see if people are following rules.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
Ryanmo5 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
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You're welcome. See you around
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
Old MuckenMire said:
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
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VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
ScoobarSTI said:
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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Sadly that's the way it has always been, there are always those users who are on here to simply tear people down and complain. Maybe its boredom but its something that has always bothered me as well. Not sure there's much anyone can do about it however, unless they are flaming and posting rude comments that's when the mods can do their thing. If enough complaints are reported about certain users then action is also justified so don't be afraid to let us know.
I'm gonna improve the sticky I put up in the dev section to include more info for noobs and see if that helps.
Ryanmo5 said:
VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to rat people out either. I just wanted to show an example of what has been going on. A lot of members here(even me included at times I'm sure) have been acting like this is our forum instead of us all acting like guests here and treating others as guests as well.
It's so hard to clean things up and police them, what one person feels should be asked in a thread for a specific ROM another person feels should be in the "general" or Q&A section.
If I'm having a "general" (ie battery, GPS, etc.) issue after I flash a ROM I'm going to look to that ROM's thread for answers - I find that if I post something in the 'general' forum about a specific ROM I get all kinds of answers from folks running different ROMs or that are not rooted and, while I appreciate the help, I don't think that somebody is as able to help unless they are on that particular s/ware. Isn't battery life and/or GPS a development issue if a lot of people are having that problem? Spin off to a new thread, reduce clutter, and post a link to the thread in the OP. (then you can at least chastise somebody if the info is in the first post which should ALWAYS be read in its entirety).
I think it would be nice if a developer would put in the OP a couple links to specific threads that have been started that are talking about specific issues w/a specific ROM. Right now the CM7 development thread has spawned a couple different troubleshooting threads, but there is no link in the OP to those.
On one of my previous ROMs the OP had all kinds of links to help threads and FAQ, etc.
I also think that the old "if you can't say something nice...." saying should be rule #1 - it would save a LOT of issues when somebody chimes in and says "how do I.....?" and somebody else responds with "why don't you try reading/searching, etc." - why can't they just take the same amount of energy they used typing that snide comment and instead point in a helpful direction?
I understand the frustration, I too get tired of the same Q's being asked over and over again but I've also failed at the "search" on the site and had to have people guide me, especially when it's something I'm new to, like Netflix, etc.
Now I'm just rambling......
ScoobarSTI said:
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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I really doubt it will.
I can see what everyone is saying. I've been involved with Android phones since day one and have been active on several boards for many years now.
I was with T-Mobile for over 15 years and am a Pillar on their boards, so I've spent alot of time there.
I've used XDA for some time now with the G1, G2, Cliq, MyTouch, etc.
When I got the Thunderbolt, I came to this forum and I noticed a very different "air" about this forum as others had pointed out. I found it kinda odd since the phone was so new.
One thing that I did notice was that "moderation" (and I know everyone is busy around here) is not as, for lack of a better word..."swift" around here. On most other boards I am on (and also ran), rules violations were not tolerated and handled very quickly with "Time outs" being given out to minor offenders and outright bans given to major offenders.
That being said, as other have said, unless there is a consequence for an action, the behavior will continue.
Not sure what can be done to help monitor this board better, since I do not know how all of it is handled internally, but I think if there was more of a moderator presence (as in jumping into a thread and posting about staying on topic or watching language, etc). Maybe the "bad boys" will just get tired of not being able to "terroize" anyone anymore and just leave.
Just my two cents.
2 issue's that see on this board (and others) -
1. Anyone that ask a question already posted is immediately called a N00b and slammed on.
2. Just cause someone has low post count they are called N00b (yep happens to me on this one)
It seems that there is no patience by many user's on answering questions (if you don't have kids wait till you do, you will be answering them many times over) why get so flustered cause people ask questions, whether or not they have been answered. Not everyone is a N00b because of low post count (I know I'm not and can hold my own anytime) I also don't act like I know everything either. Some people can't let things go either.. if you don't like it why respond? just ignore it. A little common courtesy goes a long way folks. Also folks asking for things to be fixed ASAP on newly released Roms and refuse to use them until they are or they ***** and complain over and over about the issue. Just a question, do you act like this at home or deal with things like this at home with programs you use? All software has issue's if you think they don't or your the perfect programmer, you don't belong doing this. Even major software and telecom companies have bugs that happen that are not always caught on release. Its normal and if you can do better and want everything perfect, then start programming!
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
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Feel free to add to it!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
i commend you for this ryan but it's gonna take more than just you to make xda a better place to be. the issue is instead of people just answering questions, they always say "search" .....what a waste.
the other issue is this site seems to be run by the members and not the devs, nobodies hardly on here anymore it seems. it also takes forever for a mod to show up when you report something. now don't get me wrong i love xda for the freedom i have to an extent, i also do not want a police state like android central is. there has got to be a medium somehow.
i wish we could of talked about this earlier, i hate the fact soo many devs have left the tbolt section.
I'm glad to see an effort is being made, it's going to take work from everyone.
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
For example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169292
As a rooted user, this post would just be a waste of space and pretty offtopic. For an unrooted user, you're going to get the obligatory "ORLY???" type posts from rooted users because to those that rooted, this is old news (either because they already got the update ages ago or they changed their boot animation to something custom).
yareally said:
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
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i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
fixxxer2008 said:
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
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I'd say probably 20% that come here don't root. I have no idea why either when they could go to more general forums for android out there that aren't so development/rooting focused. I really don't have much empathy for them when they complain about things being broke/not having fancy new features, but eh, each to their own. They would be better off complaining to the source (verizon) than complaining on here cluttering up the forum, since most of their issues cannot be fixed without doing what the refuse to do.
With that being said, a seperate forum would let them figure stuff out without getting in the way of those that did root.
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?