So, after playing around with several different roms I have a better idea of my own likes and dislikes, but I came across an interesting phenomenon. When switching from InsertCoin 3.3.1 to Pyramid 3D 8.0.0, I felt that P3D was faster (or at least as fast) as InsertCoin. When I checked the benchmark scores in CF-bench, P3D scored MUCH lower than InsertCoin.
Does anyone know why a rom might seem faster, but actually perform worse on a benchmark?
the overall UI can be fast with lower benchmark scores.
But try heavy 3D apps, like N64oid or Tegra2 games, most of the time the fastest ROM in benchmarks will be faster for 3D rendering.
Also true for apps that need time to render something, like for example Photaf that needs some time to render a panoramic photo, etc
I mean in a ROM, the UI can be well optimized, fast, but 3D can be slow, or vice versi
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I know a lot of people are using quadrant to get an idea of system performance, and I did some playing the other day so I wanted to discuss what I noticed.
On monday I went into the verizon store to use my upgrade to get a new phone. Coming from the droid incredible, I was going to stay with HTC as I love sense and I love HTC phones.
so i started installing quadrant on all the phones I was interested in, the Dinc2, thunderbolt, and charge. This store also sells att phones as well, so i installed quadrant on the HTC desire and the sansung infuse.
the HTC phones all scored almost 2x as high as the samsung phones. the thunderbolt hit 1980 or some craziness, while the DCharge and the Dinfuse got about 950.
so initially i thought "wow those are slow im getting an HTC"
but then i WATCHED the quadrant run on the phones.
when pressing start at the same time on the HTC thunderbolt and the Charge, the Thunderbolt got into the graphical part of the test about 2 seconds faster. however, when you watch the framerates on the renderings, the charge is easily 2x faster. during the "walk down the hallway" part the thunderbolt was getting 15-17fps while the charge was getting 30-40, during the "dna" rendering, the thunderbolt was again about 12-15 while the samsung was in the 30s.
so.. what did that mean? I wanted to find out. I installed several live wall papers on each phone, and yup... the samsung was able to run the live wallpapers without bogging down the UI, the same live wallpaper on the thunderbolt cause sense to skip a little when switching screens.
however, i noticed that when the samsung is downloading and installing apps, it starts to become pretty laggy until the install is over.
Overall thoughts:
i think quadrant is ONLY measuring the CPU power of the device. The thundebolt seems to have better processing ability when it comes to CPU intensive tasks, like installing programs or unzipping files, but it seems to severely lack behind in GPU rendering. While the Samsung is lagging behind in the CPU department and doing very well on the GPU end.
All in all i would say that the difference between processing power is less drastic between the 2 than the GPU performance between the 2.
I hope this helps some of you out there when trying to interpret Quadrant scores and what they actually mean.
Even with a quadrant score of nearly double the droid charge, it still struggles to run a simple live wallpaper as easily as the charge can.
The Thunderbolt and other HTC phones use the Snapdragon processor, which is a great CPU, but not so great GPU, hence the bad frame rates. The reason that the Samsung phones bog down when installing stuff is more from the fact that Samsung created a proprietary file system based on FAT to use for everything, and the IO performance isn't so great. Voodoo Lagfix can really speed up the IO of the phone, reducing the lag you see and also bringing the Quadrant numbers up closer to that of the Thunderbolt, etc. I'm getting 1700-1800 in Quadrant on my Charge, not that the scores mean anything.
imnuts said:
The Thunderbolt and other HTC phones use the Snapdragon processor, which is a great CPU, but not so great GPU, hence the bad frame rates. The reason that the Samsung phones bog down when installing stuff is more from the fact that Samsung created a proprietary file system based on FAT to use for everything, and the IO performance isn't so great. Voodoo Lagfix can really speed up the IO of the phone, reducing the lag you see and also bringing the Quadrant numbers up closer to that of the Thunderbolt, etc. I'm getting 1700-1800 in Quadrant on my Charge, not that the scores mean anything.
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that's interesting, I had been reading about the voodoolagfix but wasn't entirely sure what was going on with that.
What we need is a phone with HTCs processor and Samsungs GPU lol.
So what causes Iphone to be soo incredible smooth? I hate apple, but i have to admit that their UI is incredible smooth and damn near flawless on screen transitions and GPU rendering. It seems like almost all android phones are more powerful hardware wise, yet even the smoothest UIs out there still stutter compared to Apples UI
msticlaru said:
... What we need is a phone with HTCs processor and Samsungs GPU lol ...
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I think when they release that chipset, they should call it "Tegra2".
msticlaru said:
that's interesting, I had been reading about the voodoolagfix but wasn't entirely sure what was going on with that.
What we need is a phone with HTCs processor and Samsungs GPU lol.
So what causes Iphone to be soo incredible smooth? I hate apple, but i have to admit that their UI is incredible smooth and damn near flawless on screen transitions and GPU rendering. It seems like almost all android phones are more powerful hardware wise, yet even the smoothest UIs out there still stutter compared to Apples UI
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Probably like you noted during the Quadrant tests, Apple's GUI takes full/more advantage of the GPU since they control both the hardware and software. There aren't multiple chipsets out there to cater, so all the programming efforts can be concentrated to just one setup.
IIRC, that's the job of Android GB/ICS. The base OS is there, now little tweaks need to be made to optimize for the various hardware. Well get there soon enough, I hope.
Hi everyone, been having this phone for 2 over weeks now. This phone is definitely fun, but, at the moment, I find it extremely annoying to having such sleek and fast phone, but by any means, it is extremely sluggish to me during all 3d modes. Turning on the 3d camera needs a long wait, switching between 2d and 3d modes in the camera takes some waits. Viewing in between each photos take some waits. Turning on any 3d apps take some waits, we just need to wait here and there during any switching in 3d modes. Playing videos files take some waits. But other than that, at the moment, even with Anrdoid 2.2 the phone feels very responsive enough in 2d mode. I really don't find this enjoyable at the moment in any 3d modes with all the annoying waits. or is it only me????? I really really hope this is entirely rom and software related issue not because of the huge burden processing the 3d data even with the sleek chipsets a phone ever has???
The camera app is sluggish at best, takes for ever to load and an eternity to take a picture etc, in short the camera app sucks in most cases :/
Loading the first 3D pic takes a few seconds but scrolling through the gallery is fast and easy for me and I've even throttled the CPU to 600Mhz instead of 1Ghz.
Movies load pretty fast and I have no problems jumping back and forth in them etc, most slow down on this phone is Software, it's not the worst I've seen but it's far from fast ^^ Hopefully CM will change that, also as Android becomes more dual core optimized with the next version there should be a good boost to the system
Yes, i think the same too. And the 3d gallery, the thumbs preview is at the moment very lousy to, in the way it is sluggish, and look at the thumbs quality, it is way too much as unacceptable. Also, everytime loading the pictures or the recorded videos, how ridiculous to see the rediculous low quality preview (which is sluggish) before the real 3d pop into the eyes. Hope everything will be fixed with future custom roms, and most importantly the original lg roms.
Hey Guy's,
I just purchased the Infuse 4G and retired my Xperia X10. In real world use the Infuse feels much snappier and faster then my Xperia X10, however i noticed that it benches much lower scores in Linpack despite having a faster 1.2ghz processor vs 1Ghz on the X10.. Why is that?
On my Infuse 4G i'm getting about 17mflops, on my experia i would get between 34 and 37.. what gives? Does this have anything to do with the JIT implementation on this phone, or is this benchmark just to artificial to mean anything? Are you guy's seeing higher numbers on custom roms? I'm currently stock besides being rooted with Lagfix enabled on Rogers with GB 2.3.3.
I know that Quadrant scores don't really mean anything, but i thought the Linpack floating point operations were more of a real world brute strength test.. am i wrong?
DaMeatMan said:
Hey Guy's,
I just purchased the Infuse 4G and retired my Xperia X10. In real world use the Infuse feels much snappier and faster then my Xperia X10, however i noticed that it benches much lower scores in Linpack.. Why is that?
On my Infuse 4G i'm getting about 17mflops, on my experia i would get between 34 and 37.. what gives? Does this have anything to do with the JIT implementation on this phone, or is this benchmark just to artificial to mean anything? Are you guy's seeing higher numbers on custom roms? I'm currently stock besides being rooted with Lagfix enabled on Rogers with GB 2.3.3.
I know that Quadrant scores don't really mean anything, but i thought the Linpack floating point operations were more of a real world brute strength test.. am i wrong?
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ehhhh i dont think they play a real role.......i mean i have had Quads in the 1000's and my phone be super snappy.....then i have had quads in the 2500's and my phone actually lag more. and Linpack is just your phone calculating FLoating points which is not a real test to me.......but i get linpacks around 27 with Cm7 and Miui
and Quads of 3500 and up.
but in the end, i dont really care with the results of those test are.
To me the biggest test is actual real world use, and how snappy the phone navigates menus, smooth scrolling, and launching apps. In that regard i'm extremely happy with the Infuse 4G. I was just curious though to see what might be going on behind the scenes in terms of affecting the Linpack scores.
How do you like CM7 and MIUI, and how does it compare in your eyes to the stock ROM in terms of real world use feel, smoothness etc..? I'm keeping mine pretty much stock for now since to my knowledge there are still issues with bluetooth and possibly wifi on the current custom rom's.. or has this changed recently?
If anyone else has theories on why this may be happening please feel free to chime in.
DaMeatMan said:
To me the biggest test is actual real world use, and how snappy the phone navigates menus, smooth scrolling, and launching apps. In that regard i'm extremely happy with the Infuse 4G. I was just curious though to see what might be going on behind the scenes in terms of affecting the Linpack scores.
How do you like CM7 and MIUI, and how does it compare in your eyes to the stock ROM in terms of real world use feel, smoothness etc..? I'm keeping mine pretty much stock for now since to my knowledge there are still issues with bluetooth and possibly wifi on the current custom rom's.. or has this changed recently?
If anyone else has theories on why this may be happening please feel free to chime in.
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Only Non functioning things are Bluetooth and HDMI....i have had NO ISSUES at all with WiFi.
other do though, it may just be that i have a good router. not saying theirs are bad.....but who knows what different brands and set ups may be playing a role in the Wifi issues.
I like them Both.....both are Super fast. both are customizable(MiUi more so)
i can do stock....i have went back to stock for a week or so. and i just kept getting that itch to FLASH....lol
Thanks for the feedback! No Bluetooth is currently a deal breaker for me since i use it often in the car to play my music.
If that issue get's resolved you can be sure i'll be flashing the same day!
Linpack measures floating point, since floating point is processed in a dedicated part of the processor it had no relevance to something more common and CPU intensive like video decoding. Different processors have different strengths and floating point is not one of them on the hummingbird. Yet the hummingbird is very good at decoding video for a single core, as well as being great at open gl for a processor from 18 months ago.
Linpack gives a single point of data but many are needed to truly measure performance. It's nothing to worry about since you probably won't be crunching large data sets on you phone that use floating point.
(bear in mind that I own an iPhone 3GS, iPad 3, Nexus S as my main phone and HD2)
Every time I try Android tablets somewhere, on a roadshow of the manufacturer or at a department store, they lag and stutter heavily at simple tasks or just flicking around the app drawer. No matter what brand they are, be it a Sony, Toshiba, Acer, on Honeycomb or ICS, they just lag. Even the newest Tabs from Samsung suffer from lag too, while the iPad flies.
How can they ever sell if the user experience is so laggy at the first try, in regards to normal users' perspective - they just care whether it's smooth unlike us gizmos - and why are they so laggy despite having dual-core processors and a ton of RAM inside while phones with lower specs run like butter?
I don't know why.. all I know is that I currently use a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 that was laggy on 4.0.3 until I installed Cyanogenmod 10 preview which put it at 4.1.1 ..
Buttery smooothh now :good:
Also I've seen some good reviews on the experience with the upcoming Samsung Note 10.1
bcoz android is eating heavy ram so it lags
Try any of the Asus transformer tablets, they are fast.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda app-developers app
Gam3boy said:
bcoz android is eating heavy ram so it lags
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So tell me why phones run without lag? Android is not the reason why it lags, he was asking specifically about tablets.
I'm not a genius, but it might have to do with the size of the screen coupled with screen resolution. I've tried out some galaxy tab 10.1s and noticed the lag you're talking about
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
Lag compare with what? Phone? Another OS? Widget and multitasking has a lot to take into consideration too. I am sure Android will be a lot faster if it doesn't have true multitasking
demonoflust said:
Lag compare with what? Phone? Another OS? Widget and multitasking has a lot to take into consideration too. I am sure Android will be a lot faster if it doesn't have true multitasking
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I don't think this is the root cause, the root cause is something to do with android's coding as it was never intended to Handel hardware gpu acceleration across the board with gpu and this is where lag occurs.
Gpu and CPU wasn't coded to work together so when google released 4.0, it's way a bit of a jerky mess as the os would lag for a few seconds and continuous lag when doing slow scrolling. It can also be seen with contacts list where a lot of the photos appear. The gpu only seems to render a few layers of the os while CPU struggles to load picture image at once so contact list lag was still present and that same goes with the browser.
Project butter was designed to aggressively ramp up cpu to maximum speed when users touched their finger on it hence smoother pinch to zooms as CPU tries to process information I.e. content while the gpu renders graphical side of it hence less lag compared to ics, it can be seen with pinch to zoom.
Notice how 4.0s zooms are pitch, lag, pinch, lag, pinch lag while 4.1's pinches has a relatively smaller lag between actually pinching and lagging?
It's more to do with reducing legacy between gpu and CPU response time. Which is googles approach to fixing lag while still keeping developers apps unbroken.
Ios and windows 8 for arm renders it differently, it's more to do with framework linking the two integrations together. CPU and gpu works together like bus link I,e. reducing legacy while accessing each others resources hence virtually no lag (not 100%, but maybe 97% of the time).
That is why ios runs fairly smooths even on a 412mhz device while android suffers more hick ups even on a 1.8 ghz quad core device with hideously large amounts of ram.
No I don't think cm 10.1 offers a so called "buttery smooth" performance even on the nexus 7 which has a tiny wee bit of hick ups and scroll lag.
Yes I over clocked my old n7 to 1.8ghz
When I use GPU rendering, 2D is much better, but general performance is 1000 lower! The mostly procesor, but generally everything. Zeus ROM 4.0 without changes, second boot. I get 5500 Without it and 4460 with rendering. Please explain me.
Well first off, benchmarks are not reliable. Does it FEEL slower? 2d rendering is something i would suggest if you have a lower end phone or device with a slow graphics chip. Since we have a high end device i dont think its needed.
Im guessing here, but i'd think that instead of rendering as 3d it would force everything to recalculate as 2d. That would be more processor intensive and taking away some of the work from the graphics processor. Since we have a rather beefy graphics chip i'd suggest letting it do as much work as we can because why not?
Basically, that option is there for compatibility. I wouldn't worry about using it
Hopefully this makes sense.
LEGOracer69 said:
When I use GPU rendering, 2D is much better, but general performance is 1000 lower! The mostly procesor, but generally everything. Zeus ROM 4.0 without changes, second boot. I get 5500 Without it and 4460 with rendering. Please explain me.
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I'm using force 2d gpu rendering and I think it smoother, some may disagree with us. But since most apps are not designed or optimized for 3D and high resolution screen, so that's why it's stuttering randomly. If you throw on top with browser2ram, you pretty much very happy with your tab.