I have read a lot about the Infuse's GPS issues. One thing is for certain, there is no definitive answer. Some people have issues and some do not. One "fix" works and another "fix" does not. So many variables affect GPS performance such as software, hardware, terrain (indoors/outdoors/general sky visibility), RF interference and the user.
While trying to determine if I should return my Infuse to Amazon for a replacement I stumbled across a "fix" that, for me has worked better than any other "fix". The "fix" may be goofy (yes, I said goofy) but I am asking anyone whose is suffering to try it and report back. I am guessing that most sufferers will see a profound improvement.
The fix: Go get a metal pizza pan and place your phone in the middle of it. This does not require rooting or changing your SUPL server. Just go get a pan and try it.
This is not a joke. Just try it once and tell me I wrong. Matter of fact I hope I am wrong! Take your pan navigating and see if it makes a difference.
What's the point? The point is, if this "fix" solves enough peoples problem, this may (I did not say "will") point to an inherent Samsung defect or this may help others determine if their unit is "defective".
Unlike the other "fixes" I have tried, I can explain exactly what my "fix" does. My fix changes the GPS antenna's ground plane.
If my "fix" really works, I'll trademark the name "GPS Enhancing Pan Thingy"
The two pictures I have attached show the difference for my phone. The phone remained in the same spot. The only change is that I removed the pan after the first picture. The numbers are a little difficult to see so here they are.
Panned Infuse - Accuracy 15.1ft, sats in use and SNR 07:38 08:41 11:34 17:34 19:14 20:00 24:41 26:31 28;00
No Pan - Accuracy 120.3ft, sats in use and SNR 07:24 08:30 11:13 17:30 19:11 20:00 24:30 26:00 28:00
Another interesting point I noticed while typing this. The pan seems to cause a slight increase in my Wi-Fi signal strength. Without software to monitor signal strength, this is just speculation.
That is pretty funny but seems to point to a definite antenna issue with the phone. I am going to play around with my phone when I get home and see if the GPS fix does indeed improve with improved reception.
Does the pan have to be a round pizza pan, or can it be a round pie pan with higher sides? Or what if we using a rectangular pan with low sides compared to a square cake pan with high sides on it?
Hmmm, food for thought.
Just busting on you. I've thought about the antenna issue myself. How many of us have our Infuse 4G in a case? I know that I do.
Truckerglenn said:
Does the pan have to be a round pizza pan, or can it be a round pie pan with higher sides? Or what if we using a rectangular pan with low sides compared to a square cake pan with high sides on it?
Hmmm, food for thought.
Just busting on you. I've thought about the antenna issue myself. How many of us have our Infuse 4G in a case? I know that I do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bust Away, I was LMAO
But, I am glad you asked the question because the answer is yes, it does make a difference. Antenna design and RF transmission/receiption are very exacting sciences. It is best to have the lowest sides possible, higher sides on the pan may block incoming RF and may change the ground plane profile.
6
Hey guys news flash Samsung phones GPS blows. Look at what happened with the captivate. It should not suprise you
sixn3is7 said:
Antenna design and RF transmission/receiption are very exacting sciences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As demonstrated by your highly engineered, precisely manufactured pizza pan signal enhancer.
I'm going to try this when I get home. I have a shallow, square (I believe) aluminum toaster oven tray which may also improve my Infuse's GPS accuracy...
scyld said:
I have a shallow, square (I believe) aluminum toaster oven tray
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started with the same toaster oven pan and then graduated to the non-stick pizza pan. Non-stick helps the waves propagate
zelendel said:
Hey guys news flash Samsung phones GPS blows. Look at what happened with the captivate. It should not suprise you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not the point. The point is to provide proof of defect.
All the other "fixes" rely on a data connection to access an assistance server(SUPL server) for aGPS information to expedite lock time. Plus, depending on the assistance server and the GPS device (I assume Infuse can do this) the assistance server can compare fragmentary signals relayed to it and assist with accuracy.
Check out the wiki article about aGPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
The more I read the more I learn. If I understand the wiki article correctly, SUPL settings don't matter if you have AngryGPS set for STANDALONE.
This also explains the inconsistent results that people get from these "fixes". I will make an assumption that not ever SUPL server corrects fragmentary signals. Secondly, it would seem to me that you would want a server close to you to expedite delivery of the corrected position data (if you are in France you don't want a server located in America). Thirdly (this is an assumption) for the assistance server to provide corrected data I would expect you would need at least 3 GPS enable towers to triangulate your position. With that, the assistance server can take the triangulation data along with your fragmentary GPS data and extrapolate your position.
All of my testing has been in STANDALONE. Each test I would clear AGPS data in the GPSTEST app and delete GPS data in AngryGPS.
I think the real point here is that some phones suffer a hardware deficiency and others suffer sporadic AGPS availability. As goofy as it may seem, my pizza pan, in STANDALONE, may help differentiate if you need to send your phone back or you need to play with you AngryGPS settings.
Edit: Continuing to read, I just realized that if you run a firewall on your phone (I run Droidwall), this may affect your abilty to connect to the SUPL server.
sixn3is7 said:
I started with the same toaster oven pan and then graduated to the non-stick pizza pan. Non-stick helps the waves propagate
That is not the point. The point is to provide proof of defect.
All the other "fixes" rely on a data connection to access an assistance server(SUPL server) for aGPS information to expedite lock time. Plus, depending on the assistance server and the GPS device (I assume Infuse can do this) the assistance server can compare fragmentary signals relayed to it and assist with accuracy.
Check out the wiki article about aGPS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
The more I read the more I learn. If I understand the wiki article correctly, SUPL settings don't matter if you have AngryGPS set for STANDALONE.
This also explains the inconsistent results that people get from these "fixes". I will make an assumption that not ever SUPL server corrects fragmentary signals. Secondly, it would seem to me that you would want a server close to you to expedite delivery of the corrected position data (if you are in France you don't want a server located in America). Thirdly (this is an assumption) for the assistance server to provide corrected data I would expect you would need at least 3 GPS enable towers to triangulate your position. With that, the assistance server can take the triangulation data along with your fragmentary GPS data and extrapolate your position.
All of my testing has been in STANDALONE. Each test I would clear AGPS data in the GPSTEST app and delete GPS data in AngryGPS.
I think the real point here is that some phones suffer a hardware deficiency and others suffer sporadic AGPS availability. As goofy as it may seem, my pizza pan, in STANDALONE, may help differentiate if you need to send your phone back or you need to play with you AngryGPS settings.
Edit: Continuing to read, I just realized that if you run a firewall on your phone (I run Droidwall), this may affect your abilty to connect to the SUPL server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the problem and you,stated it well. It is hit or miss. We went through the same thing with the captivate and in the end nothing happened other then a Samsung fix that did nothing other then turn on agps. Point is if you would like to try and fix it on your device, cool I wish you all the best luck but in the end it will still be one fix works for some while not for others. In the end GPS built into a phone still has to many issues and problems to rely on if your stuck in the middle of nowhere without cell signal.
I contacted Samsung today, discussed all of my troubleshooting and they issued an RMA. They told me I will have a repair/replacement within 7 days.
I did not tell them I had flashed other roms. I returned the phone to stock before sending.
Question, if they send back a different IMIE will my nadroid backup work?
Also, I will report status once I get a phone back.
6
crazy... you are right on.
if you own a sedan, go out to your car, place the phone on top of your trunk (larger pizza pan!), launch GPS test, and let it lock. then, take the phone off of the trunk, and watch your accuracy get exponentially worse.
on top of my smushed-rear lexus is250 trunk (must be one of the smallest rears on any car out there), i was accurate to 10 feet, and 4 meters in google maps. once i lifted the phone off of the trunk, it jumped to 80 feet and 20 meters.
this is for real, although i never had an "issue" with my GPS.
zelendel said:
That's the problem and you,stated it well. It is hit or miss. We went through the same thing with the captivate and in the end nothing happened other then a Samsung fix that did nothing other then turn on agps. Point is if you would like to try and fix it on your device, cool I wish you all the best luck but in the end it will still be one fix works for some while not for others. In the end GPS built into a phone still has to many issues and problems to rely on if your stuck in the middle of nowhere without cell signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but the captivate sucks using agps. unless they improved the software. my captivate could put many devices to shame using navigation (not in reported accuracy but in tracking) the only way I xould get the thing to navigate well was using some of the later modem.bin files and using standalone mode with net loc turned off. with that combo the gps was stable and reliable.
interestingly I couldn't overclock it much so in an experiment to see if heat was the issue I put aluminum tape over the cpu and the metal Sheild in the phone. the idea was to give another place for the heat to disapate to spread throuout the phone faster. none of this worked for the cpu but I wonder if it had an effect on gps. the better modems weren't available till after I tried this so it would be hard to tell but I could always trust my captivated to get me anywhere without failure.
I contacted Samsung and discussed my GPS issues. I was issued an RMA on 15 Sep. I just received the phone back today and there is a huge improvement. Right out of the box (I flashed back to stock before sending of course) locked in less then 30 seconds. Much more accurate then previously. Repair ticket indicates they "replaced component".
I feel that this points to two separate issues. One being whether the phone can acquire accurate AGPS data in a timely fashion and, secondly, an actual hardware issue.
This may point to a hardware test to determine if someone should return their phone to Samsung for repair.
Try the pizza pan. If it works, contact Samsung. I told them what I did (pizza pan) on how I determined the phone had hardware issues. The tech support person did not question me and issued the RMA immediately.
Phone was repaired under warranty and at no cost. They even covered shipping both ways.
Update 29 Sep 11: Used the phone today to navigate to a couple different places. Still takes a minute or 2 to get good accuracy but once it is accurate it stayed that way for the whole trip. Much better then before when I could not navigate unless it was on a pizza pan.
Related
http://free-pc-guides.com/news/first-att-samsung-captivate-owners-report-problems-with-gps-02887
This is such a sensationalist article. There aren't any problems with the GPS. You're supposed to use a GPS outside, and even inside, mine got a signal fine.
This article also says that T-mobile is expected to get the Captivate, which is false. It already has the Vibrant.
What GPS Problem??
No problems for me, thus far...
Mine has locked once. After that it refuses and just triangulates using cell towers and accurate within 2600 meters.
I'm not sure I would call it a "problem", but the GPS chip in these things is definitely not as good as the GPS chips in most other newly released phones. It could be a software issue, but I doubt it. The Aria would consistently lock onto twice as many satellites as this thing. When driving near large buildings and under bridges I sometimes lose a lock and Google Nav jumps around, which never happens in those same places with the Aria.
It seems to be working fine for me, but then I saw that someone had posted a fix for it when you dialed into the GPS settings, so I did that, and now.... it's still working fine!
gtg465x said:
I'm not sure I would call it a "problem", but the GPS chip in these things is definitely not as good as the GPS chips in most other newly released phones. It could be a software issue, but I doubt it. The Aria would consistently lock onto twice as many satellites as this thing. When driving near large buildings and under bridges I sometimes lose a lock and Google Nav jumps around, which never happens in those same places with the Aria.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've recently used both an Evo and an ATT-band Nexus One. I do have to say that the GPS on both of those seemed to acquire signals from satellites much faster than the Captivate, and give a more accurate location. Even standing outside, in the open, this one never appears to lock in on my precise location as well. I realize that's only anecdotal, but I no longer have access to either of the other devices.
Maybe its just mine, but I traveled over 300 miles today using Google Navigation, the phone up in the dash, with a clear view of the sky keep on having issue finding me.
I have an N1 and Aria, neither of these have these issues.
Do the specs indicate which GPS chip is being used? Some are better than others. Is it SirFStar III, IV, or MTK or what? This can certainly make a difference but costs about the same, so why get a cheapo chip? Hope Samsung did not do that.
GPS is definitely poor. From watching GPS Test I'd wager it's a firmware issue. No reason to have satellites popping in and out of view in the middle of a field on a clear day...
I've had many GPS units (>10) and the GPS in the phone is the second worst I've ever had. Very flaky. It looks like they also tried to mask the problem by averaging a bunch of the last fixes. I say this because the speed indication trails reality by quite a bit!
And I did try the proposed settings elsewhere but it didn't seem to improve much.
Hopefully they'll get this fixed. It's not the way GPS should be working on a top tier phone.
AJerman said:
It seems to be working fine for me, but then I saw that someone had posted a fix for it when you dialed into the GPS settings, so I did that, and now.... it's still working fine!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, so to change my stance a little, the GPS has been a little off tonight. Locking has been slower than I like, but it has been locking, and I saw it lock to at least 7 satellites earlier so I know it has no issue with handling that many at once.
The bigger annoyance that I'm having now is that my AGPS is off by quite a bit, telling me I'm in the next town over until it gets a full GPS signal. Not only is this annoying, but it also throws off every app that uses the cell data for coarse location, and I wouldn't be surprised if it has an effect on how fast it locks to the actual GPS satellites since it has the wrong location info to start which is the whole point of AGPS.
I actually did the GPS tweaks found in another thread, and I was navigating around my city. Maps was spot on for 98% of the time. Once or twice it put me about 30 meters away, but that was when i was surrounded by trees or concrete. Overall, I was very VERY impressed with the voice navigation, and the re-routing it did when i drove past a turn!
hmose said:
Do the specs indicate which GPS chip is being used? Some are better than others. Is it SirFStar III, IV, or MTK or what? This can certainly make a difference but costs about the same, so why get a cheapo chip? Hope Samsung did not do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm starting to think that the processor and screen on this phone cost so much that Samsung had to cut corners in other areas to keep prices competitive. So far we've seen widespread evidence of crappy chargers (take forever to charge), GPS chips (slow and not very accurate), compasses (all over the place), internal memory (slow memory is causing the stalling issue / lag), and lack of camera flash. Hopefully not all of those are hardware issues and some can be fixed with software, but I'm just saying, they might have cut some corners to keep this thing reasonably priced. Personally, I would have rather paid $100 more to have the best phone ever made hands down. Oh Samsung.
I got it to lock like one time outside. Then I found this http://androidforums.com/samsung-captivate/128026-everyone-who-having-gps-problems.html and now it locks on inside my house. And this is actually GPS I'm talking about not wifi/cell tower triangulation. Hope it helps some of you.
I picked mine up the 19th in the burbs of Chicago. Drove up to Milwaukee with it the same day and did a side by side comparison with my Garmin GPS after my friend sent me the article.
Besides 2 minor hiccups, they worked very similar.
*the first hiccup shouldn't even be credited as a hiccup because it was an alternate route, I knew from experience it was slower but my Garmin and my Magellan of past never recognized it as the faster route.
*the second hiccup was when I was driving down 294 to merge into 94. Both had about the same instruction but out of nowhere my captivate's nav system said to take a left into a random road. It "recalculated" after a quick flicker and went back on course with my Garmin.
Recently I noticed there was an update for the Maps application which gave me "Navigation" and after installing it, I prefer my phone to my Garmin because:
1. It now gives you a picture of the destination in "street view" which you can touch and scroll around when you've arrived or pretty much arrived.
2. It shows traffic (green is good, red is bad)
3. I'm not sure if this was before the update but you can scroll through the map using the touch screen rather than just zooming in and out.
I'll do a few more runs driving between Milwaukee and the Chicago burbs before I completely set aside one or the other, but my experience has definitely met my expectations of a GPS
Why not download GPS NMEA MONITOR App and watch the data sentences. If they keep coming then it is a software problem, not the GPS Chipset. If those data sentences are stopped, then you got a hardware chipset reception problem. Try getting a clear view of the sky.
Zero GPS issues here, faster then backflip, tilt, & tilt2 for me. Grabs and maintains connection just fine.
Complain if you are outside with a clear sky and you can't get a lock, not if you are in your parents basement, in the cab of your car (not on the dash in a car mount), inside your office cubicle, they need a clear view of the sky to work properly.
Sorry, read too many idiots saying the GPS doesn't work IN their house... Duh!!!
THanks but I will complain if I want to considering every Blackberry I owned prior to the Captivate got a GPS lock within a few seconds in pretty much every location "clear weather" or not. Expecting GPS to work in a basement is one thing but expecting it to work in your car...anywhere in your car, or even a normal house (unless you live in your parent's basement) is completely reasonable IMHO. My Boss' HTC Incredible's GPS locks in our office which is on the 1st floor of a 4 story office building as long as he is near an exterior wall. When I run the app GPS Status from that same office space I can see the GPS sats but they won't lock. Sorry if you are tired of hearing "idiots" complain about Samsung's suck ass GPS but you should pretty much just deal with it. It isn't too much to expect a brand new state of the art smartphone to have at least as good GPS performance as a freaking 3 year old Blackberry.
I am also am unhappy consumer related the poor GPS quality - I expected a high end phone to have an accurate GPS. With that said, I think everyone can agree that it could be better, however, the phone in my opinion is very great and boasts many other positive features.
I do believe the GPS will be fixed. Why may it be taking so long? - I think they are planning to roll out a large fix including a proper GPS update as well as Android 2.2. We may even have to wait as long as November for the release of Android 3.0 (Gingerbread) as I don't believe it would make sense for them to continue extensive work on Android 2.2 and update everyone to that and then weeks later force the switch to Android 3.0
For Captivate users, this wait may end up being for the better - Imagine being one of the first devices on Android 3.0; a completely redesigned and much better Android version.
More information gathered during research of Android 3.0:
This update would be limited to only the high end devices with recommended 1GHz processor, 512mb RAM and at least a 3.5" screen. Great news! We fit all of that criteria.
It has been rumored of a release date of Mid-October of 2010 - I would say at least November for us; with some luck maybe even October 15th!
The Android 3.0 system will incorporate a complete design overhaul and include a larger Android Marketplace - Basically no more TouchWiz, Motoblur etc.
Sources:
[http://phonereport.info/google-android-3.0-gingerbread-releases-in-october/]
[http://b4tea.com/information/review...3-0-gingerbread-features-release-date-review]
[http://thegadgets.net/technology-ne...gingerbread-details-and-release-date-leaked/]
Disclaimer - Obviously I am no expert, nor am i affiliated with Google or Samsung so I can not make any guarantee to the information provided in this less than extensive research. It is solely just for a moral boost!
My Nexus had no problem getting a GPS lock, even on the first floor of my house. Even if I stand by the window on the 2nd floor, the Captivate will not get a lock. So yes, the GPS is severely crippled
CougarBroker said:
Complain if you are outside with a clear sky and you can't get a lock, not if you are in your parents basement, in the cab of your car (not on the dash in a car mount), inside your office cubicle, they need a clear view of the sky to work properly.
Sorry, read too many idiots saying the GPS doesn't work IN their house... Duh!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to burst your bubble but GPS signals do penetrate light structures. Yes, you can get a GPS fix inside in many conditions.
The Galaxy S GPS is just terrible - why? We still don't know. But I can place it right next to any number of other GPS receivers and watch them work properly inside and out while the Galaxy S sits there wasting battery and my time.
CougarBroker said:
Sorry, read too many idiots saying the GPS doesn't work IN their house... Duh!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My crap Navigon unit gets a signal inside the house....Duh!!!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm with the original poster on this one. I have a variety of GPS devices, including a SPOT GPS messenger and a Garmin eTrek HC. While they can work in adverse conditions, the only way to truly compare one to another is under a clear sky, not even glass in between. There are SO many variables inside a building, in an alley or inside a car that anecdotal comparisons in varied conditions are useless.
Saying your GPS doesn't work indoors is like saying your shoes are uncomfortable when you're in bed. And saying you got a lock indoors is similarly unimportant. To test GPS properly, you should turn off all other triangulation services including Skyhook and AGPS and then get into a vehicle and drive.
A - B comparisons between different types of devices would be useful but really only with raw data taken under controlled conditions. Things like SNR for each bird, time to acquire lock, ephemeris and almanac data.
I don't think I am asking too much when I want the GPS to acquire a lock wherever my old iPhone and my old Nexus One can. I also don't think I am asking too much that the signal holds steady and doesn't throw me around on the map when I do have a lock.
I really don't understand why they don't just issue an actual fix. Samsung must have a skilled software team to deal with things like this. Or maybe not.
If you can get a lock indoors on other devices, the Captivate should have NO problem whatsoever
The BCM4751 is considered(by broadcom themselves...go figure) to be the "industry standard" in mobile GPS chipsets, it was designed to be able to find even the weakest signals whilst still being a power miser. That being said, its a little strange that ANY of my older GPS equipped devices have no (0, NONE) problem getting a lock indoors (waaaay indoors at that).
Im thoroughly convinced this is not a hardware issue, I should be getting more than one satellite indoors (the same one satellite I get outside on a clear cloudless day)
It's gonna be another "wait and see" game. Hopefully sooner than later
ianwood said:
Saying your GPS doesn't work indoors is like saying your shoes are uncomfortable when you're in bed. And saying you got a lock indoors is similarly unimportant. To test GPS properly, you should turn off all other triangulation services including Skyhook and AGPS and then get into a vehicle and drive.
A - B comparisons between different types of devices would be useful but really only with raw data taken under controlled conditions. Things like SNR for each bird, time to acquire lock, ephemeris and almanac data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh. I'm not even going to respond to this anymore. While I appreciate your desire to add more rigor to the process you don't seem to have much experience with GPS.
My sampling is 3 Garmin GPS units, Holux, iPhone 3G and Captivate. With the exception of the iPhone none of them have any sort of AGPS. The Captivate should handily come out on top thanks to AGPS, improved circuits/amplifiers, firmware and filtering. Especially when considering some of those GPS units are nearing 10 years of age.
There is no need for "raw data" and "controlled conditions". Side by side is enough here because the performance difference is glaring. We are not talking about marginal differences in performance. We're talking about working vs. not working.
Fact is, every single GPS I have bests the Captivate under *all* conditions. The Captivate is the second GPS I've ever had that I was disappointed with the performance. (I've owned many others in addition to the ones I listed.)
Yes, GPS works indoors. It even works if your shoes are uncomfortable while taking a shower in your bed.
yeah, gps doesnt suppose to work indoor. but when compare to other phones, samsung gps is garbage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTOi82o56Tc
Sorry but your post sucks and so does the GPS on captivate. I used to have a Backflip before my Captivate and i could be in a bomb shelter and still get a GPS lock.
After applying cognition 2.1.5 & tweaking LbsTestMode, I could get a 8/8 satellites to lock indoors ~ its amazing! I'm so happy ^_^
honestly nokia phones are the best gps phones I've used. Downloadable maps, text to speech, voice navigation, personalize your own voice, accuracy is amazing! But on my captivate I can get a lock inside my home with 10m accuracy.
haydonxda said:
Sigh. I'm not even going to respond to this anymore. While I appreciate your desire to add more rigor to the process you don't seem to have much experience with GPS.
My sampling is 3 Garmin GPS units, Holux, iPhone 3G and Captivate. With the exception of the iPhone none of them have any sort of AGPS. The Captivate should handily come out on top thanks to AGPS, improved circuits/amplifiers, firmware and filtering. Especially when considering some of those GPS units are nearing 10 years of age.
There is no need for "raw data" and "controlled conditions". Side by side is enough here because the performance difference is glaring. We are not talking about marginal differences in performance. We're talking about working vs. not working.
Fact is, every single GPS I have bests the Captivate under *all* conditions. The Captivate is the second GPS I've ever had that I was disappointed with the performance. (I've owned many others in addition to the ones I listed.)
Yes, GPS works indoors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said it didn't. I did say claiming your GPS doesn't work because you can't get a lock indoors is not meaningful i.e. it's not constructive. And most aren't doing the A-B comparisons you are. There are too many factors influencing getting an indoor lock for the forum to determine anything useful from it. It might be easier and more meaningful if we tested our devices outdoors with clear line of site to the sky so at least we eliminate the variables influencing getting a lock indoors.
BTW, I agree that the Captivate's GPS is utter rubbish. I've tested it on a number of trips in my car and it has never given consistent results. What the controlled testing and raw data might reveal is why it is rubbish. Is the ephermeris or almanac data corrupted? Is the antenna poorly positioned and therefore less sensitive than it should be? Is there noise/crosstalk?
A dedicated GPS device is always going to be better then a phone GPS. They have better antennas and usually more sensitive receivers. GPS signals are not as strong as other radio signals and are not designed to pass through buildings. If you get a lock indoors, you are lucky - or just have a house without a lot of interference.
When testing, everyone needs to make sure that they are not using AGPS or Skyhook type services (Google location services is another). AGPS uses cell towers, and Skyhook/Google location uses Wifi - even if Wifi is off. Skyhook and Google mapped all the Wireless access points they could find and use them for GPS location.
If you want to compare 2 devices side by side, you probably should put them in airplane mode and make sure Google/Skyhook location services are off. Also, be outside with clear view of the sky - no tall buildings or heavy trees.
Okay. I barely get a lock and can't hold a lock and if I had to navigate somewhere using it in a life or death situation people would be dead, outside.
I wouldn't rely on any GPS in a life or death situation - I can't even imagine a scenario.
I agree GPS is broken, but I would pull out my phone and use it to make a call to 911 - that is its primary function after all.
alphadog00 said:
I wouldn't rely on any GPS in a life or death situation - I can't even imagine a scenario.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, of course I am using hyperbole
Im seeing GPS complaints starting to crop up. My two day old Infuse does not get a GPS lock at all. Figured maybe we can start a poll and see what kind of leaning we get towards GPS performance on this device and show it to Samsung should it look like its a major problem.
i've had no issues at all with my GPS...
This is my third infuse. My first one had battery issues. Second woulndnt find a GPS in the vast sky. But this one is near perfection.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Infuse GPS - Location Difs?
I'm having a lot of trouble getting the Infuse to find the GPS. I keep getting messages that it's searching for the GPS. However, when it does find it, it works wonderfully. I live in Southern CA and having a difficult time here. It's not locating me correctly and is unable to provide navigation more than half the time. However, in Northern CA last week, it was working well. Do you think that the location makes a difference - or is it something with the individual phone?
Can't be I'm in sandy eggo. My second infuse didnt find any signal while my friend two feet away with an infuse had it working in two seconds.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
dont try these side by side comparisons unless you clear nmea data on both devices before hand. it can be difficult for the gps chip to download the data from the satalites directly. another device may have downloded data that is still current at any time. side by side in only side by side if both devices have a cold start and are working in the same mode.
if you have trouble with initial locks go to the phone dialer and type *#*#3214789650#*#* it should take you to lbs test mode. it can also be launched with launcher pro activities. in lbs test mode delete gps data then go to supl/cp settings. write down the supl server and port. try a different supl server like supl.google.com with secure socket set to off and the port set to 7275. or you can set it to auto config. if none of that helps try setting the gps to msbased in application settings. msbased will use cell towers to download nmea data and give the gps chip a head start.
some phones (like my captivate) dont like ms based mode for tracking but my infuse works great with msbased and supl server set to auto config. if none of that helps trade in the phone, you have a defective unit.
there were situations where a factory reset helped on the captivate but mine suffered from a specific bug where the glgps daemon would crash with certain settings, wiping gps data did not solve the problem but a factory reset did. i dont think the infuse suffers from this bug but it couldnt hurt to try a factory reset.
Another GPS post. Fine, 7-8 gps locks no problem between 3 states. I guess if you can't beat them join them.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Second infuse, first had GPS issues
Even if it only works sometimes, it blows the doors off the Captivate.
MikeyMike01 said:
Even if it only works sometimes, it blows the doors off the Captivate.
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I hope these are isolated incidents. I can't believe that Samsung would release another device with GPS issues.
After reading the OP's thread title, I was really hoping for something more exciting, haha
keitht said:
I hope these are isolated incidents. I can't believe that Samsung would release another device with GPS issues.
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I think that it's likely there's some user issues. As in, "it doesn't lock on in the 3rd basement of my concrete and lead bunker, therefore it sucks".
MikeyMike01 said:
I think that it's likely there's some user issues. As in, "it doesn't lock on in the 3rd basement of my concrete and lead bunker, therefore it sucks".
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Click to collapse
Agree. And most people don't understand that the first seek time can take longer. So until the device learns your area it'll take longer to lock the first time in a certain area. I travel all over the world, and everywhere I go that I haven't been before a phone takes a bit longer to lock.
I think people forget about the days of the original GPS units that would take 5-7 minutes to lock on first use in a locale. Now if it takes 30 seconds they scream bloody murder.
EDIT: Why is it whenever there are polls like this people who click a negative, like something doesn't work or doesn't always work they almost never elaborate in comments? If I found this thread and had GPS issues, I'd vote, then elaborate on the problem to see if someone can help. My guess is you're spot on with user error.
My GPS was mediocre from day one. Today, did a factory reset, used tibu to restore all apps except maps, fresh install of maps from market. Had a lock in seconds. Will see what happens in the next week or two.
im not gonna say there arent bad units. and the settings could certainly be better, but i see these threads in every forum about every phone, and my friends complain about there phones. all i can say is that it get blown out of proportion.
i had a captivate and despite limited accuracy and agps that would hinder tracking it never steered me wrong after a few slight tweaks. every time i tried to follow someone elses mods it got worse. da_g's fix fixed the glgps deamon crashing while i was driving, though it only crashed if i used agps settings in the first place, so just changing the supl server and using the most recent modem.bin and setting secgps.conf to standalone to match lbs test mode was all it took to get a great tracking gps even on google maps.and it locked pretty good under cover.
the infuse is way more accurate getting <10meter locks quickly and showing the accuracy to the .01th of a meter rather than using multiples of 5 meters like the sgs. i can typically get 6 meter locks on the infuse sometimes less, with consistant altitude and 11 sats visable. if it gives you trouble i would blame google maps, it is clearly not a hardware issue. changing the lbs settings or secgps.conf may make it better but it is better to have a gps program that doesnt use data so before you complain replace maps with an application that has it's maps stored internally.
10 days in... Not one GPS issue. I just returned home from a 4 day business trip to Washington DC. During that trip, I used the Infuse often and enjoyed comparing it to the Garmin that came with the vehicle. The Infuse won hands down. The one huge triumph was the Google Navigation's ability to properly recognize traffic delays and re-route. I used it and it actually worked like a charm! The Garmin traffic portion didn't work at all. It basically didn't see the traffic that the Google Nav picked right up.
Dani897 said:
im not gonna say there arent bad units. and the settings could certainly be better, but i see these threads in every forum about every phone, and my friends complain about there phones. all i can say is that it get blown out of proportion.
i had a captivate and despite limited accuracy and agps that would hinder tracking it never steered me wrong after a few slight tweaks. every time i tried to follow someone elses mods it got worse. da_g's fix fixed the glgps deamon crashing while i was driving, though it only crashed if i used agps settings in the first place, so just changing the supl server and using the most recent modem.bin and setting secgps.conf to standalone to match lbs test mode was all it took to get a great tracking gps even on google maps.and it locked pretty good under cover.
the infuse is way more accurate getting <10meter locks quickly and showing the accuracy to the .01th of a meter rather than using multiples of 5 meters like the sgs. i can typically get 6 meter locks on the infuse sometimes less, with consistant altitude and 11 sats visable. if it gives you trouble i would blame google maps, it is clearly not a hardware issue. changing the lbs settings or secgps.conf may make it better but it is better to have a gps program that doesnt use data so before you complain replace maps with an application that has it's maps stored internally.
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Click to collapse
Could you post a link of changing the settings to lock in north America only please.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Working fine here, just hoping I'm not jinxing myself by saying so
I was using Google navigation yesterday on the Infuse while in Kissimmee and it moved a long with the car 95% of the time, it was great! Took me exactly where I needed to go without an issue. The Captivate couldn't do this at all!!
My GPS still doesn't work, indoors, outdoors, in my car etc. Guess ill need a replacement. Thanks for the input people. Thats what these forums are for. To either uncover or put to rest potential issues, amongst many other uses.. Sorry if i "offended" any internet elitists.. Again i appreciate the useful input though.
I remember having this issue with my old 5230 and it seems the Nexus S has the same problem: GPS fix doesn't happen if there is no data connection. From what I've read on the net it's a "feature" of most modern aGPS phones although I can't find any explanation as to why that's happening.
Any input?
well that would be pretty cool, it's sad that we don't get that kind of feature baked in
Stand-alone GPS receivers require massive data transfer and substantial processing power to locate usable satellites, pinpoint them, and calculate the user's position based on that information. This process can take many minutes to achieve a good fix. The principle of aGPS is to use the network to take most of this workload off the GPS receiver by providing a ballpark position value for the user and the positions of the satellites the receiver can lock on to, a precise time, as well as perform the more processor-intensive calculations required to compare signal data. In combination, these network resources allow your phone to get a lock in the space of seconds rather than minutes.
To my understanding, most phones aren't equipped to take on this entire task themselves in anything approaching a reasonable time frame, so they don't even try to provide a lock if the network is unavailable. After all, for the average smartphone user, waiting 5-15 minutes for a GPS lock is not something they would ever wish to do. aGPS also has the benefit of providing much more accurate locks in urban settings, where a stand-alone GPS receiver would be confused by the signal bouncing off tall buildings. aGPS is how GPS is made to work in a way that's efficient for on-the-go use. Without the "a" in aGPS, most of us would never make use of the feature because it would be far too slow and consume far too much battery and processor power. Since smartphones aren't really intended for use as navigation devices on long treks through the untamed wilderness, operating as standalone receivers is simply not something they're typically designed to do.
I'm not sure you guys have ever used conventional GPS but let me tell you, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. I used to have a PDA, a Fujitsu-Siemens N560 and it wasn't exactly a powerhouse but it ran GPS just fine. Sure, it took a bit to lock on sometimes (but not always, if you wouldn't move much from your last position you would be up in about 1 minute) but it was dependable. Being on top of a mountain with no directions is much scarier than having to wait 10minutes for an accurate lock...
So I'm sorry Zorak but your assumption is wrong, it's not about the processing power and the battery drain is pretty much identical (N560 used to run about 4 hours on GPS which is on par with the Nexus' aGPS).
eydryan said:
I'm not sure you guys have ever used conventional GPS but let me tell you, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. I used to have a PDA, a Fujitsu-Siemens N560 and it wasn't exactly a powerhouse but it ran GPS just fine. Sure, it took a bit to lock on sometimes (but not always, if you wouldn't move much from your last position you would be up in about 1 minute) but it was dependable. Being on top of a mountain with no directions is much scarier than having to wait 10minutes for an accurate lock...
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Which is why when you're going to a mountaintop you should have an actual stand-alone GPS receiver rather than a fragile little smartphone with a battery that died three hours ago.
look I don't mean to be mean but your reply is pointless and off-topic.
I'd like to know if the Nexus S GPS can work without an internet connection and your comments are not helping at all.
If all I need in a forest is a tiny phone for which I have an extra battery for that very purpose then let me have what I need. I find it pointless and idiotic to carry another device for the sole purpose of getting something that your phone already has! Not to mention that devices prior to it by a decade had the functionality baked in with no issues...
So, anyone up with a proper answer please? Thanks in advance!
eydryan said:
look I don't mean to be mean but your reply is pointless and off-topic.
I'd like to know if the Nexus S GPS can work without an internet connection and your comments are not helping at all.
If all I need in a forest is a tiny phone for which I have an extra battery for that very purpose then let me have what I need. I find it pointless and idiotic to carry another device for the sole purpose of getting something that your phone already has! Not to mention that devices prior to it by a decade had the functionality baked in with no issues...
So, anyone up with a proper answer please? Thanks in advance!
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It works fine for me in areas where I literally have NO service. Copilot + GPS works fine. Usually locks in less than 30 s.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App
ah, thanks, I'll try copilot
I've also learned that iGo works without a data connection and GPS also works.
I took a trip with the tf101 this weekend. Tethered to my phone got consistent wifi for email, but the only problem we noticed was that GPS was very difficult to get correct. I was in southern Illinois and it thought I was in map maps. So I rebooted and then I said I was in England. It seems to take a long time to sync to a GPS location regardless if it is correct or not. I downloaded an app called GPS status. On my atrix phone it syncs almost immediately. On the tf101, it will not sync even if I an outside with a clear sky. It takes a couple minutes if it does sync.odds this normal? My guess is that it has a marginal GPS antenna our mine is defective. Thoughts?
Keith
I've had exceptional reception on the GPS. Frankly, it the best GPS I've ever used. You may have a lemon or something screwed up.
Get "GPS Status" from the market. In addition to having a really cool display, it has the ablity to reset your AGPS data.
keithspg said:
I took a trip with the tf101 this weekend. Tethered to my phone got consistent wifi for email, but the only problem we noticed was that GPS was very difficult to get correct. I was in southern Illinois and it thought I was in map maps. So I rebooted and then I said I was in England. It seems to take a long time to sync to a GPS location regardless if it is correct or not. I downloaded an app called GPS status. On my atrix phone it syncs almost immediately. On the tf101, it will not sync even if I an outside with a clear sky. It takes a couple minutes if it does sync.odds this normal? My guess is that it has a marginal GPS antenna our mine is defective. Thoughts?
Keith
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Click to collapse
Your phone can use the cellular network to help fix it position. 3g tablets can do the same.
Your Wifi TF has no such aid and needs several minutes of clear sky to get the ephemeris. Once it has the ephemeris it will be quicker to get lock provide it is outside and it has not been more than a few days since the GPS last saw the sky and you have not moved too far since the GPS was last active.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
Go into settings then Location and security then under My Locations, uncheck Use wireless networks. If you have that checked, it will use the known location of the router ( in this case your phone) that is stored in an online database. In a fixed location ( ie home or office) this is usually correct. In a mobile location, this is almost always wrong as it is not a regularly updated parameter. With this unchecked, the location of the TF is determined by the TF GPS and not the stored location of the router( tethered phone) . For more information, see http://www.skyhookwireless.com/
dburckh said:
Get "GPS Status" from the market. In addition to having a really cool display, it has the ablity to reset your AGPS data.
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Click to collapse
This; launch GPS Status, go to settings and tap on Update AGPS. I always do this before I launch any navigation app on TF.
GwynBleidd said:
This; launch GPS Status, go to settings and tap on Update AGPS. I always do this before I launch any navigation app on TF.
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Click to collapse
There doesn't seem to be a "settings>update AGPS" setting.
I couldn't find anything like that.
Thanks for the posts. I will try these this evening. One thing I did note was that my Atrix has higher signal levels when running GPS Status than the TF101 as well as syncing faster. It also syncs much faster. I will attempt another test this evening with wifi turned off on both devices. I will put the phone in Airplane mode or pull the SIM card and reboot it to make it 'even'.
KeithG
keithspg said:
Thanks for the posts. I will try these this evening. One thing I did note was that my Atrix has higher signal levels when running GPS Status than the TF101 as well as syncing faster. It also syncs much faster. I will attempt another test this evening with wifi turned off on both devices. I will put the phone in Airplane mode or pull the SIM card and reboot it to make it 'even'.
KeithG
Click to expand...
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you dont need to turn wifi off just uncheck use router to set location
Well, it looks like it is pretty poor, at least as compared to my atrix. The atrix is sitting right next to me and is showing 7 of 7 sat / fix. It will get a fix in less than 30 seconds. On the tf,it is just spinning. I really don't like this. It should be decent. It was tough to try to use it to navigate because it kept losing sync. I posted a message to Asus as well. It may be sent back for repair. I have a B60 version, a I hope I don't lose the ability to root it.
Keith
Another response... If I load GPS Test, it shows the satellite number and each S/N ratio. On the Atrix sitting right next to it, there is a 20-40% increase in S/N on the Atrix compared to the TF. On the TF, they are all 15-25 and on the Atrix the same satellites are 22-40 (data from inside a building). If I were to guess, this appears to be an antenna problem more than anything software related. From the TF teardown pictures, the GPS antenna looks to be a very simple part and I wonder if it is optimized.
Older phones also had problems with GPS antennas (Nokia for example) so much so that there are hacks to increase its sensitivity by soldering a wire to it. I am wondering if we could appropriate an antenna for a phone and solder it in instead of the one already in the TF...
Still waiting for ASUS to respond to my query.
Keith
still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith
keithspg said:
still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith
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Click to collapse
I seem to have the same GPS issues as you do. The GPS reception is so weak that it is pretty much impossible to use Google Maps for navigation. I've tried it with and without the wireless option and it has made no difference. It takes about 15 minutes to get a lock with a view of the open sky, then 2 minutes later it is again searching for GPS. Yet GPS Status sees all the satellites quite quickly. When I did travel with it, it usually showed (on Google Maps) a GPS location hundreds of kilometers from where I was located in an area I had never been to. I had to give up trying to use it and use my phone instead.
I'll add to the list of problems when I once again send my tablet in on RMA (after a month without it, Asus repair broke it much worse than it was before I sent it).
Note that the percision number is a calculation done by an algorithm. Different algorithms result in different results but they are somewhat subjective. I do not believe any commercial gps will yield 0 error so it sounds like your phone is a little optomistic.
keithspg said:
still nothing back from ASUS. This is a pic of the 2 devices side by side. I do not know if I am just noticing it now or not, but it is not very 'solid' of a lock ever with GPS. I recently turned off WiFi location, so it is now completely dependent on GPS and seldom knows where it is. Am I the only one with a weak GPS performance? Notice that my phone shows 0ft and the TF shows 45ft precision on location.
This is with the latest OTA update of 8.6.5.9.
Keith
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try:
* Taking the third-party case off. No idea what the construction is, but it's conceivable it could contain materials that are shielding the tablet
* Performing the test outdoors with a clear view of the sky (as much of it as possible), and the devices a couple of feet apart, not sitting on top of each other
* Giving the tablet several minutes to download ephemeris data from the satellites before performing the test. Phones can pick up info from their cell towers that gives them a huge head start in determining a fix. Your tablet can't.
* Reenable the network detection. That's the next best thing to what your phone has, and it's not likely that you're going to see a single router with the same details (it looks at more than just the network SSID) in multiple locations. Unless you've intentionally set your routers that way, anyway.
AGPS is a red herring. There's no such thing as AGPS in the Transformer, and so there's nothing to "clear". The A stands for Assisted, and that's Assisted by the cell connectivity in a phone or connected tablet. The Transformer -- unless you have the 3G version -- doesn't have cell connectivity, so it doesn't (and can't) have AGPS either.
I get the same results with our without the case. It is leather over cardboard.
outdoors I get better numbers on both devices, but the TF is always lower in value than the atrix.
I have the wifi location turned off on both devices. (trying to make it a fair comparison.) Does the phone still use the cell tower data to get location even if I have "Use wireless data" turned off on the"location" setting on the phone.
As it is, my TF is useless for maps or navigation. I am curious as to what Asus will say. I have a feeling that the antenna is just not very good. I don't know if it is just mine our if it is on all of them.
Keith
keithspg said:
Does the phone still use the cell tower data to get location even if I have "Use wireless data" turned off on the"location" setting on the phone?
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Click to collapse
I would imagine so, yes. Wireless data isn't the same thing as AGPS data.
As it is, my TF is useless for maps or navigation. I am curious as to what Asus will say. I have a feeling that the antenna is just not very good. I don't know if it is just mine our if it is on all of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is accurate enough to correctly show which corner of my two-bedroom house I'm standing in.
Just to give a reference, I'm 12 feet from the nearest windows and my Transformer locked on to 6/8 satelites in about 2 seconds. My Vibrant takes about 2-10 minutes to do the same with a clear line of sight. B50.
dburckh said:
Just to give a reference, I'm 12 feet from the nearest windows and my Transformer locked on to 6/8 satelites in about 2 seconds. My Vibrant takes about 2-10 minutes to do the same with a clear line of sight. B50.
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Click to collapse
If yours is more typical, it may be that I have a defective one. From the replies, it also seems that I an not alone. Mine is a B60 serial number if that is relevant.
What serial number is yours?
I really do like this tablet, but would like a functional GPS.
Keith
I took the plunge and popped it open. The WiFi and GPS share the same ultra simple antenna. I did a bit of google-ing on GPS antennas and it may be a decent idea to buy a GPS antenna, but I will try making a more appropriate antenna with a piece of wire, first.
Keith