Related
Hello Google Android world, please welcome this shameful WinMo apostate into your ranks right away because I'm honestly a good guy who wants to start helping you all buy more batteries smartly as, when it comes to capacity claims of everyone other than HTC that I know of so far, you are in a sea of lies and gross exaggerations. I know this from publicly testing ten batteries for the HTC Touch Pro2/Rhodium/Tilt 2, batteries from the same factories that stamped out many of the third party batteries being sold for the N1, including batteries made by Mugen and Seidio.
As of now for the N1 I have tested the OEM which is rated at 1400mAh, two Seidios and an oversized Cameron Sino. At a 250mA current over a discharge from the phone's charging cutoff down to the phone shutdown cutoff (~4.14V and 3.5V respectively), the OEM clocked in at 1357mAh, or 97% of its claimed capacity. That is the best claimed versus actual figure I've seen so far (update: except for a new TP2 2150mAh), though on par with the Touch Pro2's OEMs which I tested, also in the mid 90s. So I say hello a little short on information, inviting any of you who want to help find the truth to let me borrow your batteries to test after which, as I've been doing with the TP2 crowd, I would fedex them right back. Also the information I can bring to the table you can use to get an idea of what to expect from their N1 counterparts.
How this works:
I am using the Computerized Battery Analyzer III. The software which is somewhat sophisticated plots out milliamp hours (mAh) burnt over the descent of voltage from 4.14V to 3.5V, the level of voltage in the batteries at which point the HTC/Google Nexus One and the Touch Pro2s decide to stop charging itself and decide it's time to turn themselves off because they're too low on juice. The CBA software plots out data in graphs, PDFs, CSVs, the whole deal. I hook the batteries up to the CBA which is plugged into my computer. With the software that came with the CBA I have the CBA test the batteries at 250mA, a current in the neighborhood of what the average user would average were he to do his thing (including having push-mail fired up with the screen on bright, downloading and browsing rss feeds, the occasional call, the occasional call being recorded etc) without interruption. Looks a little like this:
I'm not Colombo out to get the third party guys that exaggerate their numbers a little bit nor am I here to rewrite Wikipedia's take on capacity calculation industry standards. You know what? Scratch that, I'm starting to hate these guys, lying and overcharging way too much. If you're a manufacturer or a battery company sympathizer and want to break my balls about voltage cutoffs, read this simple explanation which I feel sums up our position well.
Tl;dr? This is to supply you with information that will help you choose which battery to buy. And to hurt the crooks.
Doug Simmons
Test results and other info.
This table is a hotlinked image to data on the mother site of this, batteryboss.org on which the actual links work. Hit refresh if you've been here before in case your browser cached the image.
Updates:
August 7th: After doing a dry run I ran the AMZER 1800mAh for the EVO. So far it's in first place for being the biggest ripoff on the gallon. First place.
August 5th: Received Carl's AMZER 1800mAh for EVO, doing a dry run discharge now, hopefully get some data for you tomorrow morning.
July 28th: Finished Carl's Seidio 3500mAh for EVO 4G.
July 6th: Completed round one of EVO stock (John Doward). Got the coveted Amzer 1800 and a Seidio 3500, both EVO, en route thanks to Carl Willi.
June 12th: Completed first run of a Mugen 3200mAh for the Hero. Both disappointing and unsurprising. Most cost ineffective battery I've tested.
June 11th: Jasper and Dan's batteries on the way back to them. Thanks again. Hey, Mugen 3200 for Hero and EVO 4G stock on their way! Hey, just got the Mugen. Charging.
June 10th: Completed testing for a no name Hero battery and the stock Incredible battery with the EVO 4G stock on its way. Nice. Returning those batteries to my man Dan and my other man Jasper. Hey, anyone wanna send me that Amzer 1800 for the EVO? Please?
June 7th: Just ran test number one of a no name oversized Hero battery. Underwhelming. Almost done with second test.
April 26th: Ran the Seidio 1600 again after deep cycling a bit (got worse). Got some press!
April 16th: Mailed back Wade his oem 2150 yesterday, today will mail Sean's bad Mugen back to Mugen so he can finally get a damn refund, also mailing back Roto his Cameron Sino 2400 as the testing's done. Currently experimenting with a high then low (repeat 3x) current thing with Roto's Seidio 1600 to see if it produces a more flattering result (his idea). Much obliged fellas.
April 15th: Latest test of a Touch Pro2 HTC/OEM 2150mAh scored 2150mAh on the frickin' dot! Not an N1 battery but just goes to show that if you don't like being lied to, go OEM. Finish oversized Cameron Sino.
April 14th: Was going to have another run of the 1600 ready for you but the god damned windows update forced a reboot last night. Argh. Anyway, just got a Touch Pro2 2150 HTC/OEM battery. Though it's not for our phone, it's worth knowing whether or not HTC can maintain its batting average for its oversized batteries so this will yield important information for you folks. Friggin' windows updates. What the hell is that, Microsoft, forcing reboots? Oh, easily disabled if you hit start > run > blahblah.msc > whatever > whatever? FU MS. /rant
April 13th: Finished first run of the Cameron Sino 2400mAh, weighing in at 2025mAh. Nothing to write home about in terms of a company not exaggerating about their capacity but hey, that's a pretty good price. Unlike the oversized Seidio 3200 this one does come with a back door whereas Seidio is too cool to hook you up with that.
April 12th: Rotohammer's Seidio 1600mAh has arrived, charging. First run of Seidio 1600 an unsurprising disappointment. A Cameron Sino 2400mAh also arrived (thanks Roto) and is just about fully charged for its first run.
April 9th: In a continued effort to outdo himself Rotohammer just ordered a 2400mAh-rated Cameron Sino, on its way to me. Lucky I got his attention. Extremely helpful. Thanks.
April 8th: N1 Seidio 1600mAh should show up today, thanks to Rotohammer.
April 3rd: Finished Seidio 3200mAh, five runs. Learned that it's rated slightly more honestly than Mugen but is the most expensive battery per tested amp hour. Still, highest capacity. I got a new and fast and really badass server and now have a our own forum which you can fire up at forum.batteryboss.org. Finished the new Andida for the TP2, pretty weak, but for some of you the price may be right.
March 30th: Completed dry run of a Seidio 3200mAh. Need to test it at least two more times for conditioning and accuracy but Seidio is now in the lead against Mugen in terms of not lying so much about their claimed capacity. Good job, Seidio.
March 29th: Mugen engineers respond (see table). Rotohammer's Seidio arrived, charging now baby, yeah! Should be very interesting.
March 27th: Rotohammer's sponsoring a test of a Seidio 3200mAh, battery en route. Thanks.
March 20th: Just ran the first test of the Nexus One's OEM, not bad.
March 18th: Just ordered a Google Nexus One. I got an extra battery so the first thing I'm using this for is to prepare a battery for testing. Need to figure out if it has different voltage cutoffs, need to figure out how to present the data and what to do with my site, .. hmmm.
Copypasta from TP2 thread:
March 16th: Mugen wants me to send me another battery to test, I agreed and mailed them back Jeremy's battery. Also mailed Sean/Telek his OEM 1500mAh. Thank you both fellas. Also DeathmonkeyGTX offered to sponsor a test of the HTC 2150mAh -- thank you!
March 13th: Finished no name #2 3600mAh (2466mAh ). In search of voltage cutoffs for Touch Pro/Fuze, please help.
March 12th: Mugen has expressed interest in sending me another battery to test, I expressed willingness. And to you I express curiosity into which device to expand the testing.
March 8th:Finished round two of no name #2 and fake OEM #2. Waiting on another ebay OEM to verify authenticity and a fresh Andida courtesy of my main man Shawn Martell.
March 7th:Added intriguing head to head chart matches.
March 6th:Completed a few more including fresh standard legit OEM, also discovered two counterfeits.
March 2nd: Completed no name #1, cheapest per mAh so far. Dropped Jason's battery off in the mail as promised.
Feb 28th: Completed tests of the Seidio, mailing it to jasonweaver.
Feb 27th: Just received Seidio 1750mAh from jasonweaver in addition to 1500mAh no name ebay cheapo. Nice.
Feb 27th: Mugen 1800mAh testing completed, table updated. Thank you very much jcr916 who bought the battery and had it shipped to me, now I'm going to mail it to him.
Feb 22nd: Thank you jasonweaver and jcr916 who are hooking me up with a barely-used Seidio and a brand new Mugen 1800mAh respectively. Those test results should be interesting as from what I've gathered those two brands have the best reputation and are priced accordingly so let's see if they deserve it.
Telek and I just laid down some dough for five more batteries this weekend. So I'll have a lot of testing to do shortly. Stay tuned for the results!
Testing hardware:
I am using the West Mountain Radio CBA III (Computerized Battery Analyzer) which you can buy along with some toys from these guys for $149. I bought something else from them, didn't like it and they offered to shave the cost of the thing I didn't want off the price of the CBA III without even asking me to return it. Good people. The CBA III is the most accurate and reliable device we could find for these testing purposes and we spent many hours arriving at the final testing procedure. No corners cut. There is no indication whatsoever that the results it's produced are inaccurate, certainly not relative to each other given its consistency. All testing procedures were identical including the current of 250mA, starting voltage and bottom cutoff (4.14V and 3.5V respectively, the top and bottom cutoffs of the Touch Pro2, which I use to charge the batteries with original HTC wall charger). The 250mA current may be a little high and won't produce as flattering a result versus a 100mA current, but it's both a normal current we burn when we're doing stuff on the phone, it keeps each of the three tests inside six hours usually and most importantly we use that current on every single test of every single battery so this is a standardized test. Finally the OEMs get 95% of their claimed rating on this current so we believe that that current is the sweet spot to supply you with information to use to buy your next battery.
Doug Simmons
Want to help?
First I'd like to thank Sean Graham, Jeremey Riley, Jason Weaver, Shawn Martell and Wade Woosley who've decided to do the following for me with TP2 batteries:
The next time you decide to buy a battery, hit me with a PM first so that I can give you my address. Have the battery shipped to me, I'll test the sucker then I'll hit up FedEx and get it to you asap. I have to test the battery at least three times for posterity so give me three or so days to shoot it over to you. I'll write a bit about how grateful I am you decided to help this project, yada yada, and we'll all be happier as a result. This is very valuable information and I know the batteries are also valuable to you so just borrowing your brand new battery for a little while, I realize, is a tall order. But that's a great way to help everyone out without spending a dime. I'll cover the postage to get it to you, I'm not asking for donations, I just want to run the damn tests.
Already have a third party battery but want me to test it anyway? Yes please, I am still interested in used batteries, including used OEMs to get an idea of longevity.
So once I survey the scene for shopping links I'll use this third post to list the batteries on my Christmas list.
Interesting post. Keep it up, love the idea behind this. Is it possible for you to determine how long before the n1 battery goes below 60% of its capacity by chance? and is there anyway to best optimize them for longer life?
This is a great reference. thanks
Do you think you can use your machinery to test the difference between two OEM batteries, running different kernels? For example this Undervolted kernel by Kmobs, a lot of people would be interested in seeing hard stats in the difference in battery useage over the stock kernel.
tips
ram130 said:
Interesting post. Keep it up, love the idea behind this. Is it possible for you to determine how long before the n1 battery goes below 60% of its capacity by chance? and is there anyway to best optimize them for longer life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! As I said I am brand new to Android so I can't tell you what software to use on the phone, including roms and screen brightness managers, to make a single charge go another few miles. I can however, and this may have been what you were asking, tell you that the more you use the battery at lower charges, like below 30%, the faster you'll eventually wear it out. So the more you charge the better. Another thing I can tell you is that the hotter the battery runs the sooner you'll kill its longevity. So heavy things like tethering and youtube for extended periods will lead you to having to buy another battery significantly quicker than if you ran up your miles (milliamp hours) on lower currents. For individual discharges, one thing you may not know is that when the phone is on 3G and you're getting a weak signal or the phone, in GSM world, is on 3G but can only find itself an edge tower, the phone beefs up its transmitting power a lot. If you don't need 3G, especially if you're in a rural area where your signal isn't always strong or you're not getting any 3G (or in an unlucky corner of your office), maybe flip off 3G. I don't know if there's a setting for this on Android like there is on WinBlow but keep your wifi power setting on the lowest unless you know its affecting your wifi negatively too much.
Whenever you've got a data connection open, you're losing a lot more juice. So if you care more about your charge lasting than you do about constant immediate emailing, really frequent RSS updates and so on, go easy on the frequency so that you're using data only when necessary. If you go that route, remember to change all your synced stuff accordingly otherwise it won't help much if you switch your Gmail cycling down to a half hour but forget to turn your Facebook syncing off immediate.
There may be something like this for Android and if there is someone please mention it, but for WinMo, WMLongLife by Chainfire, author of WMWifiRouter, is a radio management program that very smartly decides when to ramp up and down to and from 3G and when to kill the data connection. If something like that does not exist and you're a programmer, check the thread for inspiration. Great if you want to save juice without devoting your life to toggling 3G all the time yourself.
Back to heavy use, if you do have a spare battery, I would advise designating one of them with a sharpie to be the battery you use during periods of your life, like watching videos on a long flight or running GPS software (especially Navigation since it uses not only a lot of processor and does the GPS math but it also uses data) when on road trips, even and especially if you've plugged it in to your cigarette lighter, go with the designated batter for those purposes, that way you can preserve one good battery to make it through a long day of work with no problem without much degradation. Your other battery will wear out faster of course, so for that consider a cheapo no name which, once I get my hands on some cheapo no names, you can buy wisely from information I give you. Don't trust their information, their ratings have no bearing on reality whatsoever. I'll give you actionable data as soon as I can test them.
Third party standalone chargers = BAD idea. Odds are, and certainly if the charger has two pins instead of four, that it gives a constant current charge unlike the OEM which goes hard when it's safe (when the battery's got empty room and is not hot) and then scales back when it senses that it needs to. That means the OEM charger that came with your phone or your phone itself when you plug in another source whether it's the wall charger or USB, or a standalone if you find one that's definitely HTC. The constant current chargers give a weaker charge than it could during most of the charge and then too strong a charge during the final clip. So that way, even though it may fill the tank up all the way, it takes longer to charge and it will hurt your battery's longevity. By how much? Can't tell you, but because of the threat of one of these dinko chargers not even having something to detect the cutoff voltage, ... bad idea, don't trust them unless you're using it on a $6 cheapo.
liam.lah said:
This is a great reference. thanks
Do you think you can use your machinery to test the difference between two OEM batteries, running different kernels? For example this Undervolted kernel by Kmobs, a lot of people would be interested in seeing hard stats in the difference in battery useage over the stock kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thank you.
When I test batteries with this thing, I charge the battery and hook it up to the tester, not the tester into the phone to see what's doing with the battery as its being used by the phone. So I'm not testing to see how much different software, whether it's a strobe light program, HTC Sense, a custom rom or an underclocking mod, let you get the same happy phone experience while putting a lighter load on the battery. Rather I hook the thing up and tell the tester what load to put onto the battery (I use 250mA) and collect the data in the exact same way as I do for every battery I test. I'm brand new to Android and, though I'm loving it, I haven't even tried to root it yet, let alone experiment with different kernels.
From my experience with WinMo custom roms, I have never found a custom rom that had more battery drain than it would to its stock counterpart -- if that counterpart was running similar things like Sense instead of the old TouchFlo. I imagine your chefs or whatever you call them are pretty competent when it comes to making battery tweaks and trade-off decisions, however some roms will likely burn more rubber in order to deliver you more eye candy. In my old world there are barebones roms that have everything stripped down just to the point where the thing can boot, thereby delivering the best speed, most free ram, program stability and battery performance. Were I to flash one of your custom roms, once I got over my eye-candy phase at least and prioritized battery performance, I'd go for the new kernels with the least frills and install the frills myself as needed.
So I got my N1 last Friday and was immediately addicted, wailing on the thing, wishing I had immediately gone Android the moment it was first released instead of trying to run messy ported on my WinMo phone which is now collecting dust. That phone, parenthetically, takes a 1500mAh battery whereas the N1 takes 1400mAh. In spite of that, and in spite of the N1 having a larger screen, crazy fast processor and just being much more badass in general, lasts significantly longer than the WinMo phone on a single charge. Both are HTC phones so, unless the screen technology is really a whole lot different, to account for that I can only account for it with superior software. It's been so good to the point that I have been unsure that this project would get much attention from you folks than it's been getting from the WinMo crowd as they may be much more starved for battery information than you.
I love this thing.
If any of you have more advice than that please dump it here.
Doug
Mugen
I'm not surprised by the issue with The Mugen Power battery. I've had problems with them in the past.
See:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2097942&postcount=47
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2104774&postcount=50
I prefer to see a test done on a customers battery, not hand selected units from the manufacturer.
d0ugie said:
So I got my N1 last Friday and was immediately addicted, wailing on the thing, wishing I had immediately gone Android the moment it was first released instead of trying to run messy ported on my WinMo phone which is now collecting dust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I felt the same way! And since I've been a Linux user for 15 years, It feels sooo good to be fully Microsoft free!
Damnit damnit, Mugen asked me to test another in case the one they sent was defective, asking that I mail it to them first, and I went ahead and mailed it to them, figuring I had enough data, and this not occurring to me. I didn't send back the counterfeits because I wanted to hang onto evidence for who knows what but it never occurred to me that whoever cooked up their batteries might have actually labeled them with different ratings. That is absolutely stunning. At least we've got the picture you took. Ouch man, that would really have pissed me off if I had bought a battery from a company I thought was reputable and saw that -- on top of the suspiciously underwhelming performance that led me to dissect it.
Still haven't received anything from Mugen, going to follow up with them. Also just let the guy know who bought that battery for me to test to get in on your discovery to find out how he wants to handle this, assuming they send me another. Other than saying they would I don't know why they'd bother.
Thanks for that, huge help, though also a huge disappointment.
dude! I love this thread I've always been careful when it comes to batteries, bought the nexus seidio 2800 mah battery and I can say there is no way I'm getting double life that they claim.
That should be the next battery to test out even though they only have the 3200 mah one now.
-Charlie
Let Mugen do the right thing and replace an under performing unit. If they want to play games, I'll have 10 people each buy a Mugen battery, I'll send them to you for testing, then open each of them up on video. If they try to deceive me, I'll setup a website dedicated to exposing any fraud.
Rule: Never piss off a geek with resources to prove a point.
d0ugie said:
Thanks! As I said I am brand new to Android so I can't tell you what software to use on the phone, including roms and screen brightness managers, to make a single charge go another few miles. I can however, and this may have been what you were asking, tell you that the more you use the battery at lower charges, like below 30%, the faster you'll eventually wear it out. So the more you charge the better. Another thing I can tell you is that the hotter the battery runs the sooner you'll kill its longevity. So heavy things like tethering and youtube for extended periods will lead you to having to buy another battery significantly quicker than if you ran up your miles (milliamp hours) on lower currents. For individual discharges, one thing you may not know is that when the phone is on 3G and you're getting a weak signal or the phone, in GSM world, is on 3G but can only find itself an edge tower, the phone beefs up its transmitting power a lot. If you don't need 3G, especially if you're in a rural area where your signal isn't always strong or you're not getting any 3G (or in an unlucky corner of your office), maybe flip off 3G. I don't know if there's a setting for this on Android like there is on WinBlow but keep your wifi power setting on the lowest unless you know its affecting your wifi negatively too much.
Whenever you've got a data connection open, you're losing a lot more juice. So if you care more about your charge lasting than you do about constant immediate emailing, really frequent RSS updates and so on, go easy on the frequency so that you're using data only when necessary. If you go that route, remember to change all your synced stuff accordingly otherwise it won't help much if you switch your Gmail cycling down to a half hour but forget to turn your Facebook syncing off immediate.
There may be something like this for Android and if there is someone please mention it, but for WinMo, WMLongLife by Chainfire, author of WMWifiRouter, is a radio management program that very smartly decides when to ramp up and down to and from 3G and when to kill the data connection. If something like that does not exist and you're a programmer, check the thread for inspiration. Great if you want to save juice without devoting your life to toggling 3G all the time yourself.
----------------
Doug
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for your post. I am truely learning alot from you and thank you for the advice. I will be sure to follow them trust me. I got two questions though, do you think its best to charge your phone off or on? Also my battery was at 15% while on a call then I plugged in. After about 10min I hang up and now its charging while on, its been 12min and so for its at a whopping 106* F, really hot..is that normal? I know heat is bad, but I can't do anything to fix it.
d0ugie said:
Third party standalone chargers = BAD idea. Odds are, and certainly if the charger has two pins instead of four, that it gives a constant current charge unlike the OEM which goes hard when it's safe (when the battery's got empty room and is not hot) and then scales back when it senses that it needs to. That means the OEM charger that came with your phone or your phone itself when you plug in another source whether it's the wall charger or USB, or a standalone if you find one that's definitely HTC. The constant current chargers give a weaker charge than it could during most of the charge and then too strong a charge during the final clip. So that way, even though it may fill the tank up all the way, it takes longer to charge and it will hurt your battery's longevity. By how much? Can't tell you, but because of the threat of one of these dinko chargers not even having something to detect the cutoff voltage, ... bad idea, don't trust them unless you're using it on a $6 cheapo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean standalone? i bought a motorola phone charger because the US pins don't fit here, i did notice the output is lower, so i expect long charge time. Is that still going to have the same problem not throttling it down at the end.
I suppose my best bet is a pair of pliers to bend the htc charger pins to fit in our wall sockets.
Also, in regards to heavy, for example navigation+ music in a car. Does having it plugged in to power help with that? what happens when it is simultaneously charging and discharging? I also suppse a good tip is to place the mount in front of an air-conditioning vent too, if it is a warm day, the phone will get super hot in minutes, but if you are air con-ing, it will stay cool.
ram130 said:
Thank you so much for your post. I am truely learning alot from you and thank you for the advice. I will be sure to follow them trust me. I got two questions though, do you think its best to charge your phone off or on? Also my battery was at 15% while on a call then I plugged in. After about 10min I hang up and now its charging while on, its been 12min and so for its at a whopping 106* F, really hot..is that normal? I know heat is bad, but I can't do anything to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Charging the battery and using the battery both create heat. That said, the total heat you'd get from charging during casual use of the battery should not be great enough to warrant the nuisance of not being able to keep your phone on until you finish charging it each time. But 106F (41 Celsius) is indeed whopping hot and, according to not necessarily precise software tests I did on other HTC devices, that is the neighborhood of heat at which the phone eases back the charging current to the point where the phone may either charge at a current about even with what your phone is burning, leaving it without any net gain while running at too hot a temperature for the health of your battery or it will begin to drop the charging current toward zero so that your phone is discharging, waiting until the temperature simmers down until it turns the juice back up.
But what the hell is causing this if you didn't have things like wifi and GPS and streaming video going while talking to someone on your earpiece at the same time? Could be a runaway process, something whacky with something software related, something wrong with the battery, something wrong with the phone or something messed up with the charger. Since you plugged the phone in and didn't use a separate third party charger into which you plop the battery to charge, since the phone was involved, it's probably not the charger. My first guess would be something sketchy software-wise. The first thing I'd do is go into Settings > About phone > Battery use and seeing if anything looks crazy when it lists what software or functions are accounting for how much of the drain relative to each other. If something is burning juice harder than the screen, the good news is is that it might not be a hardware issue, might be something that could be solved with a soft reset. Could just have been a fluke. Can you recreate the problem? If you shut the phone completely off and it appears to charge without overheating, my guess is that the hardware is okay and there is no defect. And in that case, task management and auto-killing programs may be of interest.
liam.lah said:
What do you mean standalone? i bought a motorola phone charger because the US pins don't fit here, i did notice the output is lower, so i expect long charge time. Is that still going to have the same problem not throttling it down at the end.
I suppose my best bet is a pair of pliers to bend the htc charger pins to fit in our wall sockets.
Also, in regards to heavy, for example navigation+ music in a car. Does having it plugged in to power help with that? what happens when it is simultaneously charging and discharging? I also suppse a good tip is to place the mount in front of an air-conditioning vent too, if it is a warm day, the phone will get super hot in minutes, but if you are air con-ing, it will stay cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By standalone and third party I meant one of those little cheapo things you plug into the wall, generally without any wiring, and you put the battery into it instead of charging the battery while it's in your phone. Unless it's the OEM, there is some small danger to using these things but the convenience and cheapness, if you use multiple batteries, may make it worth using anyway, though I'd keep your OEM battery away from it and only use cheap third parties in it.
I'm 80% sure that as long as your phone's involved, meaning the battery's in the phone and something is plugged into the phone to charge it, if you use a weaker charger .... no I'm not 80% sure, let me ask Telek first. But if you've got an outlet that packs a voltage that the charger is indicated to be able to handle, typically 110-220 volts or in that neighborhood, then it's just a matter of getting the thing plugged in (safely) whether you buy a cheap adapter or go nuts with paperclips.
When it's charging and discharging, that's two things heating it up, but I'd be surprised if a serious AC made enough of a difference to make it worth moving the phone to where you otherwise wouldn't mount it. In spite of the extra heat from also charging the phone, running it on a low charge is also not great for longevity purposes but I think, I'm speculating, outweighed by the heat. If your battery's running in excess of 40c, that's not an ideal situation, but hey, you gotta drive sometimes and not devote your life to air conditioning alignment and plugging and unplugging your car charger constantly. I've done enough speculating -- Telek's the expert on this, let him weigh in.
d0ugie said:
Charging the battery and using the battery both create heat. That said, the total heat you'd get from charging during casual use of the battery should not be great enough to warrant the nuisance of not being able to keep your phone on until you finish charging it each time. But 106F (41 Celsius) is indeed whopping hot and, according to not necessarily precise software tests I did on other HTC devices, that is the neighborhood of heat at which the phone eases back the charging current to the point where the phone may either charge at a current about even with what your phone is burning, leaving it without any net gain while running at too hot a temperature for the health of your battery or it will begin to drop the charging current toward zero so that your phone is discharging, waiting until the temperature simmers down until it turns the juice back up.
But what the hell is causing this if you didn't have things like wifi and GPS and streaming video going while talking to someone on your earpiece at the same time? Could be a runaway process, something whacky with something software related, something wrong with the battery, something wrong with the phone or something messed up with the charger. Since you plugged the phone in and didn't use a separate third party charger into which you plop the battery to charge, since the phone was involved, it's probably not the charger. My first guess would be something sketchy software-wise. The first thing I'd do is go into Settings > About phone > Battery use and seeing if anything looks crazy when it lists what software or functions are accounting for how much of the drain relative to each other. If something is burning juice harder than the screen, the good news is is that it might not be a hardware issue, might be something that could be solved with a soft reset. Could just have been a fluke. Can you recreate the problem? If you shut the phone completely off and it appears to charge without overheating, my guess is that the hardware is okay and there is no defect. And in that case, task management and auto-killing programs may be of interest.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my point. What the hell could be causing it. Today I did a master reset once more, mainly angry with how things where running. Its fast again and so far I have not tried reproducing the situation as yet. I only use GPS for 5min total, mainly for directions. But I'm curious though, I had requested another battery from HTC because the one that came with the phone was losing charge too quickly(10% in hour). So far the new battery was working alot better, but now its the same. I keep hearing people say they get day and half of battery life with regular use and have 3G on. Yet my battery won't pass a day(by night its dead). I only have certain things like news and weather running and refreshing every 3hours to 6hours. I don't have twitter, facebook running or nothing like that. The screen is on auto and it happens wether 3G or EDGE is on. Only 2 hours more with EDGE. Am I doing something wrong? I feel like a complete ediat with two batteries.
I followed all advise, even turn it off during charging. Letting it die completely, tried 4 times this week. Its a regular thing letting it die completely since by the time I'm home I don't charge right way. Mainly because I would be expecting calls. My only option seems to be root unless you can shed some light. I can get a day or more if I leave the brightness on low, no internet or EDGE or no browsing and email syncing, don't fool around with my phone, with only a total of 20min calls during the day. Seems ridiculous to do that since others do ALOT than me and get better battey life. I feel like buy 2 more batteries now..its driving me crazy.
ram130 said:
Exactly my point. What the hell could be causing it. Today I did a master reset once more, mainly angry with how things where running. Its fast again and so far I have not tried reproducing the situation as yet. I only use GPS for 5min total, mainly for directions. But I'm curious though, I had requested another battery from HTC because the one that came with the phone was losing charge too quickly(10% in hour). So far the new battery was working alot better, but now its the same. I keep hearing people say they get day and half of battery life with regular use and have 3G on. Yet my battery won't pass a day(by night its dead). I only have certain things like news and weather running and refreshing every 3hours to 6hours. I don't have twitter, facebook running or nothing like that. The screen is on auto and it happens wether 3G or EDGE is on. Only 2 hours more with EDGE. Am I doing something wrong? I feel like a complete ediat with two batteries.
I followed all advise, even turn it off during charging. Letting it die completely, tried 4 times this week. Its a regular thing letting it die completely since by the time I'm home I don't charge right way. Mainly because I would be expecting calls. My only option seems to be root unless you can shed some light. I can get a day or more if I leave the brightness on low, no internet or EDGE or no browsing and email syncing, don't fool around with my phone, with only a total of 20min calls during the day. Seems ridiculous to do that since others do ALOT than me and get better battey life. I feel like buy 2 more batteries now..its driving me crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well sucks. Sorry man.
So you did a hard reset, restoring everything to how it was out of the box, and it still sucks. This might be a longshot but do you happen to be in an area where you typically don't get a full signal? ... and could you see what happens if you go to Settings > About phone > Battery use? It might reveal clues though if you did a hard reset and it didn't help, that suggests some kind of hardware problem I hate to say. Download a battery monitor app and see what kind of temperature you get when using the phone normally. If it's not that high but the thing drains fast, then maybe it's the battery, secondary to what could initially have been a software problem that worked the battery so exhaustingly that it's now behaving like this without the software problem.
That's right though, what people are saying, at least for most of us; I am getting so much better life than I used to on my WinMo phone, free at last. I used to have a second charger, one at my desk, the other by my bed. Not necessary anymore. I bought a spare battery but I haven't had to use it yet. Only used it to run tests for this project.
Any chance you're still under warranty? Don't lose hope just yet man, we might be able to get out of this. Check that battery use thing.
d0ugie said:
Well sucks. Sorry man.
So you did a hard reset, restoring everything to how it was out of the box, and it still sucks. This might be a longshot but do you happen to be in an area where you typically don't get a full signal? ... and could you see what happens if you go to Settings > About phone > Battery use? It might reveal clues though if you did a hard reset and it didn't help, that suggests some kind of hardware problem I hate to say. Download a battery monitor app and see what kind of temperature you get when using the phone normally. If it's not that high but the thing drains fast, then maybe it's the battery, secondary to what could initially have been a software problem that worked the battery so exhaustingly that it's now behaving like this without the software problem.
That's right though, what people are saying, at least for most of us; I am getting so much better life than I used to on my WinMo phone, free at last. I used to have a second charger, one at my desk, the other by my bed. Not necessary anymore. I bought a spare battery but I haven't had to use it yet. Only used it to run tests for this project.
Any chance you're still under warranty? Don't lose hope just yet man, we might be able to get out of this. Check that battery use thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
Lets have some fun!
I found a brand new Seidio 3200mAh battery from when I had a Motorola Q, and since I have no use for the Q or Verizon, the battery is just screaming "Open Me Up!"
View attachment 299144
Heres whats inside: 3 unmarked cells that are 32x48mm.
View attachment 299145
Compare that with the aprox 52x42mm N1 battery, we can do some math:
Code:
32x48 x
------ = ----- x=940mAh/cell * 3cells = 2820mAh total
52x44 1400
Of course this is just an approximation. The cells should be 1066mAh each, and they very well could be. I'm happy to see 3 cells in there
The new Seidio N1 battery is 52x44mm 9.5mm thick vs 4.75mm thick for the stock battery.
Simple math here, I bet theres two 1400mAh cells in it Although, they do sell a 1600mAh battery, so If thats true, then this battery could have two 1600mAh cells in it.
I weighed each cell in grams:
Code:
N1 1400mAh 30g
MQ 3200mAh 56g
N1 3200mAh 58g
N1 2400mAh 51g
Edit: Added Cameron Sino 2400.
Accounting for packaging, It sure looks like the two 3200mAh batteries are really 2800mAh.
Lets assume thought that Seidio has higher capacity/gram batteries. This will be proven when it gets tested by d0ugie.
ram130 said:
Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd contact tech support because Doug is probably right. You have to have either a hardware or software problem that is causing your phone to drain your battery (like GPS is always on, even though it shows it is off).
ram130 said:
Well so far its been 1hr 32min since I turned it on. I made 5min call and sen a few texts. I'm 94% now and this is what battery use is showing:
Voice calls 39%
Display 29%
Cell standby 7%
Android system 6%
Phone idle 6%
wifi 4%
Gallery 3% (WEIRD, have not went in there)
Android OS 3%
Google 2%
Current temp: 86.9*
Voltage: 4.0.84v
I took some pictures of it. Please note, to take pics I had to plug in via usb, using the SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is Gallery is activated every time you look up contacts and used for the background?
I think you have your phone searching for signal all time. Go into the wireless settings and click the Only use 2g networks. Only turn it on manually when you want to use 3g.
Tell us how your battery is after that. I suspect you spend some time in areas where the phone is boosting power to get a good signal and its causing battery loss. (BTW, you only get a few hours with the screen on)
Maybe you could try using the phone during a typical day, then posting your battery results after 8+ hours of use... that should give us a better idea of where your drain is coming from, but if it is still inconclusive I would still say you should contact tech support.
I spent less than $30 over at Amazon and got two 1900mAh batteries and a charger for them. The batteries say that they are for the Sensation but work perfectly for the MT4GS. I take lots of photos with my phone(30-40 daily),, send a 150 or more messages a day, surf, compose emails and have about an hour of total talk time per day. 2 Anker batteries takes me through the day without needing an outlet.
I can fully recommend these for our phone. I am in no way affiliated with Anker and did not know the name before I purchased the product.
UPDATE: These batteries are NOT A WIN! After a month and a half of intense usage, I am finding (with two separate batteries) that these may not get enough power to our phones and results in an error for the camera flash when no real error exists (except with the manufacture of this battery perhaps).
I am checking out new batteries. Will report back asap. I am recommending folks avoid Anker for now though. I'm still investigating this situation.
FYI: The exact error is "unable to use flash due to cold weather".
UPDATE: After a few days of trying to reproduce the flash error, I've had zero problems and lots of fun with my phone so I think we can chalk it up at most to a defective battery and not a systemic issue. I've been using the battery since with no problems. Enjoy your phones!
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA Premium App
http://www.amazon.com/Anker-1900mAh..._23?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1313683743&sr=1-23
That's the link to the one I just ordered, it shipped yesterday, should be here in another two days. I'll definitely review after I get it.
Anker batteries in the 1900 capacity have been recommended by several here so far, and I haven't heard anything negative about them except for:
One user reports that the fit is almost too snug in the battery case. Any words on this?
Other then that - they sound like a solid win, enough so that I bought one too.
I actually purchased the set that comes with two batteries as I bought my MT4GS on Craigslist and couldn't verify the integrity of the battery it came with. The batteries for the Sensation DO fit snug but it doesn't cause any problems. I spent 30 minutes looking at that aspect. Putting them in, taking them out.... The batteries last a good while (1900mAh) and the charger seems to work well after the initial charges which are a bit longer than normal (but not much longer).
One thing to look out for is that the charging prongs on the charger have a design I have not seen before. Since it is a universal charger from Anker they slide along a rail as so that they can be used to charge various HTC batteries which may have the charging port at various different points along the top of the battery. So like the G2 or the HD2 battery could be charged in the charger as well (I've done it) because you can move the charging prongs from left to right along this rail that they slide on. So you have to make sure that you have them lined up for the + and - port on the MT4GS battery so that you're getting a proper charge and not just sitting there wasting your time.
It's a small thing and not a problem. In fact, it might be a bonus for those who have other HTC devices that it can also charge.
Congrats on your purchase. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Chinese 3 battery combo with charger
I have been buying the spare batteries from Hong Kong/China with the slow ass battery charger for my past few devices. They are 10.95 delivered. The MT4GS and the Sensation are IDENTICAL. I spent 1 dollar more for the MT4GS and everything was exactly the same and there was no reference to MT4GS on either of the packages that arrived at the same time.
I can't complain. I always have my laptop bag with all of my techno gear spare 2A DC and AC chargers.
I can't not be connected?
Blue6IX said:
Anker batteries in the 1900 capacity have been recommended by several here so far, and I haven't heard anything negative about them except for:
One user reports that the fit is almost too snug in the battery case. Any words on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's definitely a tight fit, but it's not too bad -- it's not hard to pull out when you want to change the SIM or microSD card, for instance. It is tight enough that it doesn't fall out by itself very readily, though -- a couple days ago when I was experimenting with the carrier unlock and swapping SIM cards, I forgot to put the back of the phone* back on when I was done, and I carried the phone around for several hours without having the battery fall out or come loose. I even dropped the phone about 2.5 feet from my desk surface onto the non-carpeted floor and the battery didn't pop out.
So the fit is definitely snug -- much snugger than I'm used to in a phone battery, in fact -- and you have to press down to get the top to slide into place properly, but in my opinion it's a good thing, not a bad thing.
*That is, the "battery" cover, although it covers a lot more than just the battery, unlock my G2's battery cover, which I wish they had made the mT4GS's battery cover more like, but now I'm a bit off topic...
Good to know.
Mine came in today, and i'm watching the charge light turn purplish now as it goes from red to blue, so it should be real soon that it's done charging for the first time.
I think i'm going to restore my first solid CWM backup after rooting on my old battery, then wipe the battery stats file, power down, swap batteries, and power up to run it down. Hopefully this will get me a good calibration right off the bat.
I can't wait to start using it - this holding off until it's charged all the way the first time is killing me lol.
I'll report back in a few days how it works after the first 4-5 discharge cycles the package says it'll take to get my full capacity out of it.
Do you have to use the charger that comes with the battery to charge the battery or can you charge it as normal inside the phone? I would like to get a longer lasting battery but I certainly do not want to have to remove it from my phone every time I want to charge it.
No, it charges just fine inside the phone. The external charger is just in case you need to charge it outside the phone for some reason, like if you have two batteries and you want to charge both up for a long trip or something.
Awesome! Just picked up two MT4G Slides the other day and already I can see the battery life is going to be a potential issue. Coming from a Bold 9700 I knew I was going to run through the battery much faster, but I wasn't quite expecting this fast.
Okay, after my second day with the Anker 1900 battery, I am extremely impressed.
It's like a night and day difference. Honestly, my biggest concern was the heat issue. I noticed that my stock battery got pretty warm, and while not enough to burn me, was enough to impact the lifespan of the device and battery.
I had a theory that spreading the same amount of load over a greater range of discharge would produce less heat, and that has proven out to be true. Maybe the Anker battery is just made better, but more likely my theory was correct.
The Anker battery doesn't get anywhere near as warm with general use of the device as the stock battery did. Solid win there.
The amount of time I get with the battery before having to charge is already significantly increased, and I haven't fully broken it in yet. I'm no longer having to plan out where my next charge location is going to be and trying to ration my device usage to make sure I get to it. Now I can just go about my business without worrying about running out of juice.
Bonus points because now my stock battery is available as a backup, just in case - making the win that much sweeter.
Thanks to everyone who suggested this battery, it was definitely a great buy, and the price is unbeatable.
u think I can buy sume of those battery from amazon.com? I'm Italian, but I can't find shipping restriction section...
Good find. I might pick up one of these. Would really have liked the charger to be USB powered, though (or at least have a long cord) so I could set this on my desk next to my phone.
Evo 3d Battery
Has anyone tried the Evo 3d battery? It's rated at 1730mah and reportedly works just fine in the sensation.
ylam310 said:
Has anyone tried the Evo 3d battery? It's rated at 1730mah and reportedly works just fine in the sensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if you'll find much traction for this - the anker battery has a higher capacity rating and lots of endorsement from people (myself included) who think it is a superior replacement for the stock battery.
I'd be curious, just to know, but I would recommend the anker 1900 battery for the sensation above anything else.
I wonder why you would want to know this?
Contacted Laptopmate (US Distributor of Anker) via Amazon's customer service. Turns out they have an Ebay store and an Amazon store.
Ebay store is MUCH cheaper. Found batteries and a charger for $15 less.
One thing this company does on both sites is "overlist" they will have the same product for $8.99, and $9.99 for example. I found the first eBay mt4gs battery was 11% off and listed at $14.99 with charger, I kept exploring and found it later for $11.99 - same item.
You also need to watch they have some other non-Anker batteries with varying capacity sizes that might be a bit less. YMMV.
Now just sitting back and waiting for them to arrive.
Will be picking this up for me and my friend (who has the sensation). Good find!
Just ordered two today! Can't wait...as I take lots of pictures and videos so it'll be refreshing to have fully charged batteries ready to go, on the gooooooo.....
Just so people know, it is a little bit bigger. I have a problem squeezing my body glove case on (but it does go on, barely). I'm just waiting for another case with more clearance so it fits.
Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide
That bad? Jeez...
I need a case, otherwise this phone will be abused too much. It is an expensive piece of equipment.
On a side note, I've been trying my damned hardest to drain this thing for 6 hours, and I'm only at 50%. Highest brightness game playing and browsing, and 4G has been on the whole time. Plus, I took enough pictures of my gf to get her irritated.
Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide
ok guys i really need your help/opinions. my mytouch4gslide has recently been overheating while just casualy using it (facebook,twiitter,minor games,etc). and 2 days ago it started having horrible battery life it goes down 1 or 2 percent every minute or two. and also ive been trying alot of diffrent roms and im still trying each one out again but the problem is still there.before i was with tmobile i had an optimus v for virginmobile and the battery lasted much longer and it wouldnt overheat like this. im really tempted to send this to htc and get it fixed?replaced but i really cant wait two weeks without a phone. so guys tell me if this has ever happened to you or what i should do, i wish i still have the tmobile asurion insurence but i thought it was useless and canceled it last month, what shoudl i do?
o and i bought this piece of crap from tmobile for 500 dollers no sh!t and im still paying for it so i would really like it for it to get fixed
Yea, that's how much I paid for my first one too - well, still paying for...
Did you get insurance with your plan? Not sure if it covers the battery - but it did come with it, so I don't see why not.
Maybe take it in-store and see if you can get a manager or someone who could swap your battery out? Not sure if it works like that.
I'd be leaning towards the battery being shot, or on it's way there.
If it's overheating a lot, then it's just damaging the battery further - but it's also a sign of damage to the battery itself. Some of the cells are burnt out or malfunctioning and preventing/blocking/impeding or somehow just jamming up the electricity transfer in and out of the battery.
If you do an insurance claim, (if you got it with your plan) they ship you a new phone and when it comes in, you send your old one back. Think you have like 7 days to decide if you want the new one or keep the old one.
That would at least give you two batteries to test back and forth and see if it really is a battery problem (but that's the most likely answer)
You might consider getting an aftermarket battery?
On my second phone I swap out between the two HTC batteries I have, and in my plan phone I have the Anker battery I got. The Anker never gets as hot as the stock battery (either one) for the same workload, and I can push the device with the Anker to do much, much more then the one with the stock battery.
----
I did do an HTC warranty repair on my second device, and I had to ship it back, they fixed, and sent it back to me. Didn't take that long, less then 13 days (probably by a few days) I could look up my records and find out exactly how many days I didn't have it including my shipping to them - but once they had it, it was speedy service.
The HTC people were an absolute pleasure to deal with on the phone, extremely helpful and taking the time to patiently answer all of my questions or look up accurate answers if need be (and they had to a few times, but you could imagine the grilling of questions I gave an HTC rep since I was on the line with them already)
Definitely seperated themselves from the vast majority of companies i've dealt with for customer service issues (beyond phones into other stuff too)
So past making some awesome tech the people behind it have been fantastic in my experience.
(even if they do make a ****ty battery they should be ashamed of - phone company, not a battery company, but the quality of the battery is way out of spec for the device it's in )
----
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I have a feeling that people are going to start following you who have been using the stock battery for as long as you have.
It generates too much heat, is too inefficient, and that makes it break down faster and die quicker. The more it dies, the less efficient it gets, and the quicker it reaches the end of it's service life.
If I were in your shoes, i'd call the battery shot and start worrying about what that amount of heat is doing to the device itself, specifically its Snapdragon processor. Heat is enemy numbers 1, 2 and 3 for the processor, especially one pushing the limits of it's design like the Snapdragon does.
If you are running an OC kernel, i'd stop that immediately. Hopefully you aren't or haven't been.
----
I'd say go to a T-Mo store and start there, do an HTC direct warranty replace as a last resort and consider an aftermarket battery.
The Mugen batteries are unquestionably higher quality then the Anker batteries, but much pricier too.
The Anker battery is far and away better then the garbage stock battery - so even that would be a step up and it's what I run and like using.
(when I can afford to i'm gonna step up to the Mugen battery and gift the Anker to my second phone)
If I were you i'd overnight an Anker battery and stop in a T-Mo store tomorrow to see what your options were and how they were going to make it right for you.
Worst case is an HTC warranty, it's still in the warranty period, the phone hasn't been out for a year yet. I know that's the least desirable option, but if you do have to go that route make sure to mention how the heat has probably damaged the phone itself and they should have a tech or two go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb. That heat against the processor has really shortened the lifespan of your device.
I say this because sometimes I put down my second phone and turn it off to save it from the heat of a functioning stock battery - a broken one would be a lot more of a concern.
Wish I could say something more positive, but while you are in warranty and have options is not the time to ignore issues that could bite you later.
Edit:
Especially since this is clearly not your fault - you are using the battery provided to you with the device itself, and that is now malfunctioning. You didn't do anything to cause this, it's either dumb luck with an even worse battery then normal that HTC themselves provided you, or you are the first of more who are hitting the end of service life on the battery the device came with.
It sucks that the worse it gets, the more quickly the problem gets worse. It's a vicious cycle that there is no way out of, because just using the battery breaks it more.
Even if you have to be without a phone for a week because you have to ship it back to HTC (worst case scenario from your point of view, since you have no device in the meantime) they'll make it right for you. This device is too awesome, and costs too much money, to settle for something that's defective - especially since it's not something you did, just the way it came.
Let's just hope for everyone's sake you got a particularly bad battery and this doesn't turn into an epidemic. Because the overheating of the battery basically breaks it more and more quickly, this is about the right amount of time for them to start crapping out if you got it within the first month of launch.
(based on the ludicrous - yet identical - amount of heat i've been experiencing from two stock batteries is where i'm framing this fear from)
Edit again:
Sorry, noticed you said you cancelled insurance, i'm pretty tired, but i'll leave what I said in case it helps someone - I wouldn't hesitate to call up HTC and file a manufacturers warranty claim, it should be covered since it's their branded battery that failed. I definitely give them a very high rating for customer service from my experience - I have nothing but good things to say about them to anyone who will listen.
The anker battery definitely will cool down your device. It seems like our stock battery takes a sh*t after about 3 months... Once I got the anker battery I loved the phone so much more, I recommended it to all my friends with sensations/mt4gs phones.
My one friend ended up getting himself 3 ankers, so he always keeps one on the wall charger, one in the phone, and one fully charged in his pocket. He doesn't even plug the phone into the wall anymore. If you do something like him, your phone will also avoid the heat involved with charging via usb
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
leoilios said:
...
My one friend ended up getting himself 3 ankers, so he always keeps one on the wall charger, one in the phone, and one fully charged in his pocket. He doesn't even plug the phone into the wall anymore. If you do something like him, your phone will also avoid the heat involved with charging via usb
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you trade wear and tear of one part for wear and tear on another. The wear and tear on the USB jack is much, much worse then the wear and tear on the battery contacts.
The USB jack will wear out long before the battery contacts wear down.
The other part of it is every time you open the back of the device you expose the internals to dust and environmental contaminants.
I'd say as long as it's clean, not dusty or anything when you make the switch, that's the better way to go - as long as they are the same battery (which is what you said your friend had ... all good there)
The big thing would be to not make the switch outside. Try to do it indoors, in still air.
The most dust-free room of any house is most likely the bathroom. Limited to no carpeting and usually much less air space for things to be floating around in, close the window and give it ten minutes to settle first and that's probably the best location to do it. Especially if it's real tile, that's the absolute least opportunity for all the dust and fine particulates on the floor in the rest of the house to be present.
So your friends mode of operation (if when changing the battery conscious of dust and fine particle contamination) is probably the best method to stay charged and put the least wear on the device - except maybe an induction charging backplate.
The only problem with the induction charger is finding a case you can work on it with. I don't have one, but if it's the same size as the standard phone dimensions, then you could use the trident case and not scratch the device up taking it off an on (the trident case is mostly soft plastic and rubber, not hard and sharp plastic)
The downfall to the induction charger is you need a charge plate every where you go, so once you factor that liability in, what your friend is doing with 3 Ankers is probably the best method to keep the phone charged while doing as little damage to it through normal wear and tear possible.
Score a point for creativity and efficiency. I might change my mind about the Mugen and just get a few more Ankers to duplicate the method, after thinking about it. If there's a better way, why do anything else? That seems like it'd be worth buying the extra batteries for, i'll just pay attention and snipe some on sale.
Thanks for sharing, that's a happy tidbit of info and i'm definitely going to work towards implementing it. I want this device to last me as long as I can make it, and any way of taking better care of it or doing something like the battery swap method that just makes way more sense is always welcome to hear about.
----
I should've gone to sleep already since I have to get moving in just a few short hours - but after typing out my previous reply I figured i'd swap my stock battery since you shouldn't let them sit without being used for a long period of time.
(I wish I could charge the stock batteries out of the device, I could copy a shorter version of that method with my two stock batteries - oh well.)
Anyways, when I did, I noticed something. Each came with one of my devices, and they are both the same battery, but they are backwards. It looks like it was deliberate, too, because all the markings are correct for + / - and whatnot.
Don't know what to make of it, so I figured i'd share just to get the info out there in case it's of use to anyone - (for what, I have no idea) - but they both suck equally, so there's no benefit of less heat for one or the other, and they both last about the same amount of time near as I can tell without actually measuring.
Doesn't seem like one lasts longer then the other, and i'm pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff. If people are curious i'll measure them a couple of times each and see for sure, if not I won't waste my time when there's other work to do.
Anyways, I snapped some pictures of it to illustrate what I mean, since describing it would end up being confusing for some and i'm half delerious as it is.
They are both the same:
- brand = (HTC)
- model = (BG58100)
- Rating = (3.7VDC)
- Capacity = (1520 mAh)
- Watt Hours = (5.62Whr)
Different serial numbers, and Different part numbers.
The one that shows the writing/bar code side up when installed in the device is:
- part number 35H00150-00m
The one that shows the blank side up when installed in the device is:
- part number 35H00153-00m
Does anyone out there have any other part numbers for the stock batteries? I wonder how many versions there are and if there are any differences between them.
Two of my friends got this device after seeing all the cool stuff I could do with it and being less then impressed with the devices the rest of our/their friends had - they needed a hardware keyboard too so obviously this was the answer.
I will check their stock batteries and see what they are, if it's anything different i'll post that too - might take a few days or so to get ahold of them and find out.
I should have noticed this a long time ago. Anyways, here's the pics to illustrate the outward differences:
no worrys i just charged my phone all night and its workin good again, and i do have anker. im on your bulletproof rom and ive been off the charger for an hour and ive been texting and playing games and its still at 100 percent
Blue if ur gonna copy my friend, keep the spare in a ziplock bag, moisture is one of the reasons people say u shouldn't leave them out and unused for long periods of time
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
wiswis said:
no worrys i just charged my phone all night and its workin good again, and i do have anker. im on your bulletproof rom and ive been off the charger for an hour and ive been texting and playing games and its still at 100 percent
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome to hear you're in good shape again.
Was the problem you were having with the stock battery or the anker?
leoilios said:
Blue if ur gonna copy my friend, keep the spare in a ziplock bag, moisture is one of the reasons people say u shouldn't leave them out and unused for long periods of time
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have some nylon camera cases i've been using to carry around the doubleshots, and they have pockets that I slip things like memory cards, cables and the stock batteries in (whichever one isn't being used).
Appreciate the heads up, but I got the cases to keep the doubleshot behind a zipper to keep dust out, and when the accessories are in the zipper pockets they are protected enough. There isn't a lot of fog where I live, only rarely and otherwise the ambient moisture is not very high so it's not a big deal.
If I didn't have the cases, though, i'd definitely be using something like that. There were a couple of times I carried the doubleshot itself around in a ziplock bag back in august, if it was raining or going to rain that's how it left my house in my pocket. That's what prompted me to get the nylon cases - and though they aren't waterproof or anything, it's enough to not have to worry about it.
If i'm going to be in the rain then that's what I do - i'll have to come up with something better before it hits the rainy season around here - this time of year it doesn't rain often.
I'm having a similar problem, though not as extreme.
My phone's battery doesn't actually heat up but the area around the simcard. I'm running Pyroice with the extreme UV kernel and underclocked the CPU to 810mhz Max with setcpu 2.1.1a but it still warms up around the simcard area. I also never get anything better than 12hrs battery life.
Should I be worried?
sent via my messenger dog
cybot_x1024 said:
I'm having a similar problem, though not as extreme.
My phone's battery doesn't actually heat up but the area around the simcard. I'm running Pyroice with the extreme UV kernel and underclocked the CPU to 810mhz Max with setcpu 2.1.1a but it still warms up around the simcard area. I also never get anything better than 12hrs battery life.
Should I be worried?
sent via my messenger dog
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have had this same problem from day one. Even with the anker battery, and on every rom I have tried. I sometimes use flat icepacks to cool it down when it gets too hot. I haven't found anything fix.
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using XDA App
I use my Mugen as my regular battery and my two Ankers as spares. I only have the OEM battery in case I need to send it to T-Mobile.
So I got the model numbers from both stock batteries that my friends have for their phones. Both are the same.
- part number 35H00153-00m
...and that matches one of the ones I have from above.
Anyone else have any other model numbers on their stock batteries that are different?
It would be nice to know what's out there and if a particular model seems to do better then another.
----
I run both stock batteries in one phone, and the anker in the other. Very rarely does the anker device get hot enough that I take notice and pay attention to it, but it does happen.
The one swapping out stock batteries back and forth can trigger a battery switch if it has been two days and I haven't swapped, or it gets too hot.
If it gets too hot I turn it off, let it cool down and then turn it on with the other battery. I try to keep the one not in use as full as viable, but never less then about halfway for more then a short while.
Enough people have shown a serious reduction in heat of the device by using an aftermarket battery that we've concluded pretty solidly that the stock battery is responsible for a large portion of the excessive heat.
Heat is the number one enemy of these kinds of batteries and microprocessors. If it starts to get hot enough to be uncomfortable in your hands, then you should start thinking about letting it cool down before running it so hard.
It happens more frequently then i'd like with the device running stock batteries, but I always make the decision that whatever i'm doing isn't worth aging the device and reducing it's service life just because I couldn't stop using it for a few minutes to let it cool off. The money I spent on it means more the longer it's in service, abusing it unnecessarily is wasteful to me.
I'm pretty particular about things like that, just my way. Your mileage may vary.
Blue: my stock battery has the same product number
i can't really say i've noticed it getting hot enough to take notice of it, but then again, i mainly use the Anker, since i only need to charge it once a day.
i was wondering if there's a chance that the heat issue is something HTC addressed in the last OTA update? definitely hard to say, but possible i suppose. perhaps i can try using the stock battery on the newest stock ROM and see if it heats up.
I doubt it's a matter of software or we wouldn't see much if any change when swapping to a different battery like the mugen or anker.
Any theory is valid until disproven though, and you never know unless you try so let us know how it turns out.
Short but powerful,
Without all the blablabla straight to the point. I got ?fooled? by a phone company 's expert(?) who told me this was not going to do any damage to my phone, and refused me to give me my money back after i found out that the battery was not good(the same as OEM z710e voltage ratings) when i came home.
I have a z710e, it came out of the factory in 2011. Original battery specifications:
m/n BG58100 p/n 35H00150-02M (3.7VDC 5.62Whr 1520mah)
The battery triple checked by "Expert" and sold by him is a:
m/n BI39100 p/n 35H00170-01M (3.8VDC 6.08Whr 1600mah)
My phone model: z710e (PG58130) original battery p/n: 35H00150-02M from 2011.
Next time I'll check this stuff myself and don't let those people do it for me. They either don't have any good batteries for this model and just sell the one that actually over volts your phone. Or other batteries and so had in his mind to sell me this and don't care about it, like "oh well who the heck cares, this person will never find out and will return to me when his phones is death". Well I'm pretty sure that this will not make my phone last any longer than a year / half a year or less! And i still need it for a year or longer if possible.
Feel free to reply, but only if you know that what you are telling is 100% correct. Please avoid non-valid information or answers, thanks :good:
I am not a pro either but this just doesn't seem to be correct. Feel free to correct me, if i made any mistakes.
https://www.google.co.uk/?#q=35H00170-01M+compatibility
If you don't understand my actual question, then I'm deeply sorry. Often my stories are not so easy to understand duo to my bad English.
The question in a nutshell is simply : Will this higher end battery do damage to the phone and is my story right, i mean is this battery not compatible with my model because it can do damage duo to over volting the ma inboard/soc (because of higher battery output ratings?)
NiTrOwow said:
Short but powerful,
Without all the blablabla straight to the point. I got ?scammed? by a phone company 's expert(?) who told me this was not going to do any damage to my phone, and refused me to give me my money back after i found out that the battery was not good(the same as OEM z710e voltage ratings) when i came home.
I have a z710e, it came out of the factory in 2011. Original battery specifications:
m/n BG58100 p/n 35H00150-02M (3.7VDC 5.62Whr 1520mah)
The battery triple checked by "Expert" and sold by him is a:
m/n BI39100 p/n 35H00170-01M (3.8VDC 6.08Whr 1600mah)
My phone model: z710e (PG58130) original battery p/n: 35H00150-02M from 2011.
Next time I'll check this **** myself and don't let those people do it for me. They either don't have any good batteries for this model and just sell the one that actually over volts your phone. Or other batteries and so had in his mind to sell me this and don't care about it, like "oh well who the **** cares, this person will never find out and will return to me when his phones is death". Well I'm pretty sure that this will not make my phone last any longer than a year / half a year or less! And i still need it for a year or longer if possible.
Feel free to reply, but only if you know that what you are telling is 100% correct. Please avoid non-valid information or answers, thanks :good:
I am not a pro either but this just doesn't seem to be correct. Feel free to correct me, if i made any mistakes.
https://www.google.co.uk/?#q=35H00170-01M+compatibility
If you don't understand my actual question, then I'm deeply sorry. Often my stories are not so easy to understand duo to my bad English.
The question in a nutshell is simply : Will this higher end battery do damage to the phone and is my story right, i mean is this battery not compatible with my model because it can do damage duo to over volting the ma inboard/soc (because of higher battery output ratings?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all you should search a little bit more to see that the same battery (35H00170-01M) is offered by numerous companies as a replacement battery for various phone models (Titan, Vivid, z710e...) just like the battery from your phone (35H00150-02M) is offered for the same models.
Then, you can find the same battery (35H00170-01M) offered with different voltages, both 3.7V and 3.8V, and the difference of 0.1V will not harm your phone, cause, you can see it yourself, voltage rating for the original phone charger is 5V and it doesn't harm your phone.
And the last, the other data you got for the battery (Whr and mah) mean only that you have battery that should last longer than the original one you have.
I hope I helped...
nlooooo said:
First of all you should search a little bit more to see that the same battery (35H00170-01M) is offered by numerous companies as a replacement battery for various phone models (Titan, Vivid, z710e...) just like the battery from your phone (35H00150-02M) is offered for the same models.
Then, you can find the same battery (35H00170-01M) offered with different voltages, both 3.7V and 3.8V, and the difference of 0.1V will not harm your phone, cause, you can see it yourself, voltage rating for the original phone charger is 5V and it doesn't harm your phone.
And the last, the other data you got for the battery (Whr and mah) mean only that you have battery that should last longer than the original one you have.
I hope I helped...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It indeed is, but i have really bad experience with replacement batteries. And those small 'voltage increases'. They end up to die quicker a lot quicker in my personal experience. And i think it is also the reason why, many sellers don't include my model in the compatibility list.The 3.8VDC 6.08whr version is meant for the XL and titan version witch is actually indeed the same but +300mhz overclocked.
NiTrOwow said:
It indeed is, but i have really bad experience with replacement batteries. And those small 'voltage increases'. They end up to die quicker a lot quicker in my personal experience. And i think it is also the reason why, many sellers don't include my model in the compatibility list.The 3.8VDC 6.08whr version is meant for the XL and titan version witch is actually indeed the same but +300mhz overclocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest I have some cheap s**t called Hinorx Extended Battery that's 1200mah (don't know what's extended there but that's what I got when I ordered regular replacement battery for Sensation) and it works really well, can go up to 25-30h with 2h of screen, lots of wifi (ARHD 7.3 with 1,5MHz o/c).
Don't worry about 0.1V, it means nothing. And for life of battery I hope you got warranty...
nlooooo said:
To be honest I have some cheap s**t called Hinorx Extended Battery that's 1200mah (don't know what's extended there but that's what I got when I ordered regular replacement battery for Sensation) and it works really well, can go up to 25-30h with 2h of screen, lots of wifi (ARHD 7.3 with 1,5MHz o/c).
Don't worry about 0.1V, it means nothing. And for life of battery I hope you got warranty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It don't has warranty. But it's oke. It is a OEM battery they said. Btw it works fine, only had to use another charger with a output of 1.5a. It would not charge otherwise. But well, lets see how long it keeps working.
Haha it seems to not work charging for 5 hours now and still 0% cannot go in cwm recovery and when it starts it will reboot and orange/green led will blink again. I tried to reboot it several times, tried to clean/bend the pins and all the other tips from XDA forum seasrch results and nothing seems to work.. Great =(
NiTrOwow said:
Haha it seems to not work charging for 5 hours now and still 0% cannot go in cwm recovery and when it starts it will reboot and orange/green led will blink again. I tried to reboot it several times, tried to clean/bend the pins and all the other tips from XDA forum seasrch results and nothing seems to work.. Great =(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try defferent chargers, stock one should (1A) be fine.
nlooooo said:
Did you try defferent chargers, stock one should (1A) be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i did but it got extremly hot so i switched back to the stock charger. And it actually should be fine? +0.1 volt doesn't matter?
The battery does not hold charge at all. It turns on battery level is 0% and will reboot and do orange/green led indication for as long as you keep it in the charger. When you get it out of the charger and turn it on it will go off as soon as android is loaded up intro the pincode screen. Guy at the store told me the led indication meant that the bettery is at an extremly low level of power and that it just needs to charge some more.
Well i have been charging it for like +5 hours now for sure. Using the OEM charger rated at 5VDC 1A. It is not the cable or faulty charger. If i test the output or on my tablet it works just fine. And with the old battery i'm able to charge it, but the old battery is dead, it does not hold load properly anymore. It drops a lot of times from 80% to 1% in like maybe 30 minutes of usage.
Also when using the GI39100 i cannot get intro adb or recovery..
NiTrOwow said:
Yes i did but it got extremly hot so i switched back to the stock charger. And it actually should be fine? +0.1 volt doesn't matter?
The battery does not hold charge at all. It turns on battery level is 0% and will reboot and do orange/green led indication for as long as you keep it in the charger. When you get it out of the charger and turn it on it will go off as soon as android is loaded up intro the pincode screen. Guy at the store told me the led indication meant that the bettery is at an extremly low level of power and that it just needs to charge some more.
Well i have been charging it for like +5 hours now for sure. Using the OEM charger rated at 5VDC 1A. It is not the cable or faulty charger. If i test the output or on my tablet it works just fine. And with the old battery i'm able to charge it, but the old battery is dead, it does not hold load properly anymore. It drops a lot of times from 80% to 1% in like maybe 30 minutes of usage.
Also when using the GI39100 i cannot get intro adb or recovery..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Faulty battery. It's not about volts, it's about bad battery.
You should require replacement or reimbursement.
nlooooo said:
Faulty battery. It's not about volts, it's about bad battery.
You should require replacement or reimbursement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the second brand new battery the guy in the store put intro it.
Both did the same, it just doens't work.
1. Does not turn on (sometimes when lucky)
2. Holds no charge
I did
1. Wipe battery stats (in the end, like 5 minutes ago from writting. It took me half an hour to get the phone booting while charging)
2. The phone started only twice, now it does nothing anymore (with this new bat).
Also the battery info was all wrong.
When i checked the 1st time when i got it on i went to settings > about the phone > status > batterystatus it did show me(i left it nearly 3 hours like this and still 0%):
- Batterystatus: Unknown <----------------- Before battery stat wipe, after wipe still the same, no power on.
- Battery level: 0% <----------------- Before battery stat wipe, after wipe still the same, no power on.
While it should look like this!
- Battery is being discharged (when not charging)
- Battery level: 93% (old poor battery meanwhile after so much testing already full again)
When i put the old battery in place it works without problems. When i put the new one in it doesn't + battery stats are not even readed by android itself and recovery menu stated a warning. "Warning phone is under-volted" or some message like that. And the LED indicator flash in an unusual way (orange/green) this probably is an error code. Well, complete nonsense because i use the same charger. And the XL version has the same 1A charger, so this makes no sense. The battery is just not compatible.
The battery has been charging for almost 13 hours now. And still 0% + orange/green led flashes.
I have no tools here i had to imprevise with crap, gluetape and a doorbell to get a cracky 5 dollar multimeter working, LoL.
here is the bat output;
a 0.08 v 20 3.52v hv 750 0.07 hv 200 06.8 with other words it should be fine to run and maybe get 50% battery level. But it is still z3r0~ when i put it in my phone.
Topic prefix can be set to [ANSWERED]. The m/n BI39100 p/n 35H00170-01M battery works just fine in the z710e. Confirmed to work, even with 0.1v increase (does not produce more heat or instability, like some cheap fake batteries do without protection IC xD)
I went back to the store they gave me another battery and it instantly worked. So i had two faulty batteries. Lucky me again haha....
Probably or the store where i got it from does not test bats and throws them intro one big box or just very very unlucky.
The battery stats now work, no warning in recovery menu and no orange/green flashing in the led indication.
So if somebody has the same issue as me, your battery is 100% sure faulty. And you should toss it back to the re-seller for warranty or if you purchased the parts loose RMA it.
Get or an good alternative non-oem brand like anker. That is sure to be safe and good of quality. And never use fake chargers from like cheap Chinese tabs or phones. Often they have terrible output and this can badly damage your battery/phone because the output might not be stable enough and drops and increases a lot of times, either using a 2A charger does not make any sense at all. It will go just as fast as a 1A charger because the limit is 1A through(in most phones some can have other ratings). Only thing that can damage your phone/battery is if you go over the 5VDC. More volts = more heat = less lifespan. Amps are taken by the device and volts are given.
Confused
The new battery i have now is a BI39100 35H00186-00M. The 35H00170-01M does not seem to work in a PG58130 z710e or i had two faulty batteries... ?
I'm not sure what the general opinion here is on thread necromancy vs posting something there are already threads on, I'm looking for a good power bank that won't break my wallet- or my devices! Also, thanks for that checkbox warning, I almost posted this in general > accessories! (Where all the other threads I found with this kind of subject were, but... oh well. )
I'm looking at the Lumsing 5X right now... (Google it, I can't post links yet. 11000mAh, $26, 5 USB ports at the different ratings) it's the cheapest one I've found that's actually in a "top _" list when googling for power banks... but still, I'm worried about getting ripped off on recycled batteries ( or a charger filled with bags of sand!), and I'm trying to look into AA chargers, but... well, they're really hard to search for and don't seem to provide any specifications!
Plus a AA charger would be great since I could get an 8-pack of Imedions and use the extra batteries for my other stuff, or a quick battery swap, and easier replacement... Batteries do wear out over time, after all.
But my god is it a pain in the ass trying to find them, let alone ones that have a 1-2 amp charging capacity. or even seeing which ones bothered to include a power regulating board at all! I already got a Rayovac one from walmart when I got overexcited seeing it and made an impulse buy... only rated for 500 mAh, according to the casing upon opening the box. I'll be returning that...
It almost feels like my best bet, if I really want a AA based power brick that bad ( I don't) is to order the regulating circuit and put it together myself.
So, does anyone happen to already have a good AA bank and could tell me what they use? After all, the power brick I linked is the same price as the Imedon batteries alone... I would prefer to avoid paying more than 30 or so for the brick, 40 for the AA one + batteries.
Perhaps the one mentioned, but not by name, in this post?:
Mister B said:
I'm using a 4cell AA powerpack, I use Uniross Hybrio 2,200mAh cells.
Modified it to support fast charge & it work very well & cost me $15 all in, plus recharge cells can be easily & cheaply replaced making it a long term cheap servicable solution and also standard AA cells can be loaded if no main power available ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the Lumising. Thanks for all the help, everyone that replied; I REALLY appreciate it.
I'll report back when it gets here and say if it's poop-tier or not.
Finally drained the lumising.
It powered:
3 recharges of my Samsung Google Nexus (1750 battery) from 15%, being accidentially left on overnight once
1 recharge from red of my 3DS XL (1750) while playing Pokemon X, on the most power intensive settings.
1 recharge of my Nook 1st Edition (1250) from 15%, while reading
I did have some problems with the pack turning itself off while charging my Nook, and the Nook not registering that it's being charged, but that device does have a badly damaged USB port, so I'll let that slide even though I don't have problems with the AC plug as long as I'm careful about the device end of the USB cable.
All in all, I got approxomately 7000 mAh of charge, plus powering the devices' battery usage during the time spent charging. Not bad, when you consider that a good portion of the energy also disappears into the conversion process from the 3.1v lithium battery to the 5v standard USB ports, and then back from the USB standard to the 3.1v lithium batteries inside the devices.
The pack itself takes bloody ages to charge though, and didn't come with it's own charger. But that's to be expected, I suppose. It can only draw 1-1.5a of current while charging, according to the ratings on the brick, so no taking advantage of the full speed of a 2.1a USB wall adapter, if you have one. The short owner's manual that came with it is engrish-y, but understandable, and there are some minor discrepancies in the information stated on the Amazon page, the package, the manual, and the device itself.
For example, it seems to just turn itself off when it has a single flashing light and won't output any charge, but the manual explicitly states that a single flashing light means 10% charge, and that the remaining battery can still be used at that point. Besides that, though, the display from 4 lights to 1 seemed to accurately represent how much power it still had available in comparison to how much I had already used from it. As accurately as it can with only 4 lights, anyway.
An undocumented feature is that the lights will also start staying solid at the same 25% thresholds during charging.
Cosmetically, whatever material the case is made out of attracts fingerprints and skin oils like a high-strength neodymium magnet, and some of the protective plastics are so closely attached they look like they're just part of the case at first, but they mention that in the follow-up email after ordering. All of the edges, including around the on/off button, are a little rough, and the recessed design of said button makes it a bit difficult to press; I have to jab at it with the corner of a fingernail to push it easily; otherwise I'm just kinda pushing on the face of the device while my skin squishes into the shallow hole that the already concave button is in. The pouch is very nice, but it feels like overkill when the device itself is so impossible to keep clean and fancy-looking. Good place to keep all adapters from USB to various other plugs, though.
I suppose that's not bad for just under $27 spent.
Again, thank you all so very much for your assistance in my decision.