no 4g love in virginia - Thunderbolt General

am i the only one who wonders why Verizon has added no lte to Virginia...not VA beach Richmond or north VA...any idea why?

There is 4g in Richmond, and DC I believe. I was at Busch Gardens yesterday and I had 4G. After the tunnel 4G died.

Shoot I'm in northeast Ohio and we have none. My buddy lives in chesapeake Va actually on landing creek and he has natelos wireless if I spelled that right and said his phone speed is soo slow. I told him that Verizon should have LTE there, but I guess I was bullshing LOL. Oh well.
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/me builds you a tower
did you complain to Verizon yet? That would be more effective.

Northern VA & DC have 4G. Richmond has spotty 4G. Richmond is supposed to be complete by October 1st...
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duckwizzle said:
There is 4g in Richmond, and DC I believe. I was at Busch Gardens yesterday and I had 4G. After the tunnel 4G died.
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4g in bg cool I will be there soon I will have to check it out, by the tunnel you referring to the hbbt? I
Wonder why verizon has so much 4g that is not marked on their coverage map?
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really? I was at Busch gardens on Saturday, and not only did I not have 4g, I barely had 3g.

Richmond VA has 4G mainly in Mechanicsville and the VCU area. Spoty in the North Highland Park area and the West End is straight 3G (although the West End got a glimpse of 4G for a day around the end of July)
In Northern VA it stops at around Woodbridge, a little spoty in Dale City however. Not sure how far west but I do believe Leesburg, Ashburn and Sterling all have 4G. If the person above is right who said Richmond would be complete around October, then it shouldn't be long after for Fredericksburg to be upgraded as well as its the mid way point between DC and Richmond on I-95.
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baronmxc said:
Richmond VA has 4G mainly in Mechanicsville and the VCU area. Spoty in the North Highland Park area and the West End is straight 3G (although the West End got a glimpse of 4G for a day around the end of July)
In Northern VA it stops at around Woodbridge, a little spoty in Dale City however. Not sure how far west but I do believe Leesburg, Ashburn and Sterling all have 4G. If the person above is right who said Richmond would be complete around October, then it shouldn't be long after for Fredericksburg to be upgraded as well as its the mid way point between DC and Richmond on I-95.
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All info about 4G being completed by October 1 was from a Verizon employee. He seemed like he knew a thing or two about all this.

I'm from Virginia too about 2hours away from Richmond and there's no 4g so like why even have a 4g phone
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im in between Los Angeles and San Diego and no 4G here on the beach... yet most of Los Angeles and San Diego have 4G.
Verizon is supposed to do another big 4G expansion on the 15th of this month so hopefully we're all included this time.

coolguy540 said:
I'm from Virginia too about 2hours away from Richmond and there's no 4g so like why even have a 4g phone
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I guess the real question is why buy a 4g phone if you don't have 4g coverage in your area???

baronmxc said:
In Northern VA it stops at around Woodbridge, a little spoty in Dale City however. Not sure how far west but I do believe Leesburg, Ashburn and Sterling all have 4G.
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Going west on Rt. 7 or the Dulles Greenway, 4G drops out in the middle of Ashburn, and unfortunately does not reach Leesburg and towns west at this time. And at the point you lose 4G, there is a dead period of about 30 seconds or so with no network connection at all, so something isn't working quite right in the network handoff to 3G. I've also lost voice calls during this tower transfer as well, though it's not as bad as it used to be.
Even in Sterling near Dulles Airport, 4G occasionally drops, but is generally reliable, although resetting the Network Mode on the phone's settings is sometimes necessary to get 4G there when traveling from a 3G area. Probably due to it being a border region.

baronmxc said:
Richmond VA has 4G mainly in Mechanicsville and the VCU area. Spoty in the North Highland Park area and the West End is straight 3G (although the West End got a glimpse of 4G for a day around the end of July)
In Northern VA it stops at around Woodbridge, a little spoty in Dale City however. Not sure how far west but I do believe Leesburg, Ashburn and Sterling all have 4G. If the person above is right who said Richmond would be complete around October, then it shouldn't be long after for Fredericksburg to be upgraded as well as its the mid way point between DC and Richmond on I-95.
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I turned on my 4g around VCU today. I can confirm that it works.

I drove through the western tip of Virginia this weekend (around Rt 23/Interstate 26) and probably obvious to anyone that knows the geography of Virginia, there is no LTE there. I can't even remember if they have 3g there, haha. I don't recall any LTE until you hit either Charlotte, NC or Greenville, SC heading south and nothing until Columbus, OH or Cincinnati, OH heading north.

Blacksburg and Christiansburg have had total 4G coverage for over a month now, since before the semester started.
It seems like places with high profile athletic teams are getting most of this current expansion wave. Blacksburg was probably an ideal market for stress testing because the towns population triples when the students return, and then almost doubles again during football games.

ece4free said:
Blacksburg and Christiansburg have had total 4G coverage for over a month now, since before the semester started.
It seems like places with high profile athletic teams are getting most of this current expansion wave. Blacksburg was probably an ideal market for stress testing because the towns population triples when the students return, and then almost doubles again during football games.
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I guess it is good for us here in Richmond that VCU went to the Final Four.

I believe he is telling the truth. I have seen a lot of Verizon workers at tower sites around Richmond lately.
EDIT: this was a response to ghstrdr1985's last response. The quote didn't go thru I guess.
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nrage23 said:
I guess it is good for us here in Richmond that VCU went to the Final Four.
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If only we had actually won...we might actually have 4G by now.

Richmond 4G Update: I noticed stronger 4G reception in the Highland Park area today. And parts of the West End are getting lit up but once you get to West Broad/ Parham Rd going towards Short Pump, it goes back to 3G.
Anyone from the Richmond area want to help make a 4G map? VZW does not have us on their planned 4G roll out for 2011 and there is no indication of 4G on their map even though VCU has had 4G for about 2 months now. This user created map will help visitors and others know where to expect 4G signals.
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Related

4G in Milwaukee!!

Just got 4g turned up, I'm in Milwaukee WI!!! I'm in West Allis, a suburb of Milwaukee, about 10 minutes west of downtown.
It's faster by speed test than my cablemodem. how f'd is that?!
gsxr1kmatt said:
It's faster by speed test than my cablemodem. how f'd is that?!
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Ha ha yeah. It is. So far the only speeds that match it is Fios (and docsis3.0 speeds). but they don't have that everywhere.
I guess I should clarify.. I dont give a crap about anything faster than 5mb down...it's upload speeds that matter to me.
Cablemodem speeds. Road Runner btw
T-bolt.
This is GREAT NEWS!! I live in Racine ...just south of Milwaukee wonder if this means we will have it soon?! I work in Zion ,Ill and have 4g there. Anyways ...thanks for the heads up!
Ohh wow. That upload is slower than my dsl.
I wish ISPs would start focusing on upload speeds too. With all this talk about cloud computing and certain ISPs providing like 50GB of online backup space, you'd think we can get a decent upload speed.
gsxr1kmatt said:
Just got 4g turned up, I'm in Milwaukee WI!!! I'm in West Allis, a suburb of Milwaukee, about 10 minutes west of downtown.
It's faster by speed test than my cablemodem. how f'd is that?!
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Click to collapse
That's great news! Unfortunately I'm not seeming to pick up a signal and I'm in Brown Deer (northern milwaukee county). I will have to try when I go closer to downtown tonight. Are you getting a consistent signal or was it only for a bit? I don't believe anything has been announced yet.
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Tosa was turned on today! I noticed Cudahy had it when I was there Sunday. That was surprising....
potcryan said:
That's great news! Unfortunately I'm not seeming to pick up a signal and I'm in Brown Deer (northern milwaukee county). I will have to try when I go closer to downtown tonight. Are you getting a consistent signal or was it only for a bit? I don't believe anything has been announced yet.
All of downtown, the third ward, and the airport have had it for at least the few weeks that I've had my TB. I dropped my wife off at the airport a couple weeks ago at around 5am. Pulled 28.8, 25, and 22 DL on separate tries. I picked her up in the afternoon the next day and got 10-15 DL. Very impresssed.
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I'm deeper into the city, not far from miller park and still not getting a signal. Do you guys have your phones set to CDMA/LTE auto or just straight LTE mode? I want my 4glte!
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There has been 4g in Milwaukee since the tb was released. It has been my experience that it goes west about to 35th and south to around College. I do occasionally get 4g going more south and west but it seems to be strongest in dt Milwaukee.
i'm in Waukesha. Considering buying this phone.
P-funk_droid said:
This is GREAT NEWS!! I live in Racine ...just south of Milwaukee wonder if this means we will have it soon?! I work in Zion ,Ill and have 4g there. Anyways ...thanks for the heads up!
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Cool, I live in Racine too!
4G is trash...at least for me...I live in Greenfield and even in strong areas of 4G coverage I cannot complete a single large download...tried different handsets, SIM cards, ROMs and radios...it's the towers.
Not impressed and wish I kept my Droid Incredible
Congrats I noticed 4G working in Green Bay about a month ago, if I member correctly I was drinking a lil so got more excited than I should of
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Speaking of LTE in Milwaukee...
Either a lot more are running on the LTE now in Milwaukee, or the radio's in our LTE phones are being capped. I've been noticing some pretty bad performance some days. Even with full strength, only pulling 2mbps down yet 13mbps up..
I sure hope 4G spreads all the way between Green Bay and Milwaukee someday - I am about halfway between the two cities and really wanting that extra G! Lol
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I'm kinda SOL when it comes to ANY stable data at house.
I live in semi-rural area of Racine, and my house is almost a Verizon dead spot.
I can sit in my house and only get 1-3 bars of 3G, and maybe 1.2mbps down at MAX.
However I can walk to either edge of my 8 acre property and pick up the LTE, and get 1-2 bars and pull 5-10mbps.
Same here but I live in the city of Milwaukee
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4G memphis

Anyone heard when memphis, tn is getting 4G? Its at the airport but nowhere else in town.
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Definately get a pretty decent signal on Airways, Democrat Road, Kimball road and Avenue, Winchester Road, and many more areas Sadly, it is nowhere to be found at Beale Street! D:
Its coming !
I'm bout to go to Memphis for friends for about a week, can you do me a favor, do some speedtests in Walls, Southaven, or Horn Lake... I know for a fact that I'll have to tether, and I just want an idea of the speeds I'll experience.
The only areas I've experienced 4G in are in and around the airport. You can get it on I-240 from I-55 to Lamar Ave. It's lightning fast and faster than my Wi-Fi at home when I'm on it. If I had to guess on a time for LTE in M-Town, I'd say beginning of Q3 2011 but I'm no cell engineer.
You can also pick up a pretty good 4G signal near FedEx World HQ, at and along Hacks/Winchester.
All of you guys are in Memphis too . Nice to know I'm not alone lol.
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[Q] 4G Salt Lake -Where are the boundries

So 4G is starting to come online in Salt Lake ahead of tomorrow's official launch. Seems pretty fast and the tower hand-off has been pretty good from the little I've seen. While I'm not sure about the northern boundries the southern boundries are supposed to be to about 7800 south which leaves a large part of the Valley without 4G (bummer). I live right at about 7800 south and 2700 West and this morning my Thunderbolt would flicker between 4G and 3G depending on which tower I was connected to. I certainly hope it was due to the service just starting to come online and not due to the fact that I'm right on the boundry for the 4G service. I guess we'll see how the coverage looks in the morning when it "officially" launches.
My office which is about 6200 South and 3000 East is getting strong 4G without any flickering or hiccups.
Who else is Salt Lake is getting 4G and where do you think the boundries are?
Creek Road and Highland drive (about 8000 south 2000 east), getting strong signal. Not sure what the closest tower would be...
Stops up around north salt lake,about a mile past where 15 and 215 join,had 4g in layton yesterday for about an hour
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Hum drum...
No luck down here in Draper, but hopefully when Provo/Orem rolls out it reaches from the city to the valley
I commute in from Grantsville everyday, via 80.
I got 4G at about 215 and 80, and it stuck all the way up to the 4500 S exit off of 15, and to where I work on 3900 and State.
Was on it all day, streaming Audiogalaxy, Pandora and Google Music. No hiccups, at all.
I will say, when I walked into work this morning, I had a full 100% charge on my extended 2750 battery, and I just let it run down, which took about 6 and a half hours, Lol! 4G is quite the battery hog.
Running the newest virusrom beta (gb), and imo's newest kernel. Usually get 20+ hours on a mix of wifi and 3g.
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So when I left me house this morning I didn't have 4G (7800 south & 2700 west). Disappointing, but what can I do? At work (where I get great 4G coverage) I checked the Verizon website and their coverage maps it says my home is well within the 4G coverage area (sorry Draper, no luck).
Is there a chance they are still rolling it out and we'll see more of the valley come online throughout the day or do you think this is it and the Verizon map is wrong?
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Just purchased my TB from the VZW store yesterday from the Murray store (State & 63rd), and I was able to get 4G in the store. Drove home to 10th W & 70th S (5 min) and no 4G.
I work at the VA hospital and get a strong signal here but where I live it goes back and fourth but mostly just 3t and it should be in the boundaries. I live about 30th south 30th east. I am going that it will get stronger, but it may just be wishful thinking.
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rmoffitt321 said:
Who else is Salt Lake is getting 4G and where do you think the boundries are?
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Click to collapse
You could guess, or you could look here http://www.cellreception.com/towers/ and here http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController and here http://www.antennasearch.com/
yareally said:
You could guess, or you could look here
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I think Verizon's map is very generous with what areas are 4g. Murray should be completely covered according to their map. Unfortunately Draper falls into a hole while there is some coverage in a neat little circle around it... Here's hoping we get some more love this way, if not I live down off state and center in Orem so when Provo/Orem rolls out I'm good :| I hope.
satseaker said:
Stops up around north salt lake,about a mile past where 15 and 215 join,had 4g in layton yesterday for about an hour
sent from my bamfed out bolt
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Click to collapse
Same as you. I was going north on Beck St. And lost it right around Staker or after.
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Just add to this, took 21st home today, lost 4g at about 7200 W.
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I get it in Holladay. For some reason today the 4g does not want to start on. If I switch to 3g I am good but not 4g. Amy one else having those issues?
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Rio Tinto Stadium.
it seems like the 4G footprint is continuing to expand at least a little. While I still don't have full 4G at my house yet it seems like the signal seems to be getting more widespread than it was last week.
Are you seeing 4G in any places it wasn't in last week at launch?
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Spoke to a Verizon Guy
So I was chatting with a Verizon Guy and he was telling me that they will continue to expand LTE until they hit the point of the mountain and some of Draper. He says they are still working on upgrading towers and every Sunday they flip a few more on. I guess there are quite a few towers that are ready for LTE further south but they don't want to have dead spots in the middle so they are upgrading to towers inbetween and letting it creep further and further south as they go. He told me they had some problems with the Tower at Jordan Landing but that once that one came on they could expand into South Sandy immediately.
I know my on again and off again 4G on 7800 South and 2700 West is now fully ON and I'm finding the signal further and further south.
He also said that they will likely turn on the Provo/Orem towers in late July.
Are you guys seeing 4G continue to expand its footprint?
SWEET!
Getting it here in Draper, right by the point of the mountain. Good thing too, cause it made little sense that there is a Verizon store here by the Harmon's that had to explain to it's customers that 4g was just up the road...
I have full bars at my place off 7800s 1300w. Today I'm not getting anything at all. 3G is extremely slow today as well. There are some gaps out towards the point of the mountain in Magna and Riverton/Herriman as well.
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4G goes Live in Greensboro, NC

GREENSBORO N.C. (WGHP)— Verizon announced on Tuesday it will turn on its 4G LTE network in Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point on July 21.
4G mobile service gives consumers service up to 10 times faster than a 3G network. The company expects average data rates in real-world, loaded network environments to be 5 to 12 megabits per second (Mbps) on the downlink and 2 to 5 Mbps on the uplink.
The 4G technology also will improve coverage strength inside buildings, as it runs on a powerful 700 megahertz wireless frequency.
The deployment provides 4G coverage throughout the surrounding areas of Cooleemee, Mocksville, Lexington, Welcome, Bermuda Run, Clemmons, Lewisville, Bethania, Rural Hall, Tobaccoville, King, Walkertown, Kernersville, Stokesdale, Oak Ridge, Summerfield, McLeansville, Whitsett, Sedalia, Jamestown, Archdale, Thomasville, Trinity, Randleman, Forest Oaks, Pleasant Garden, Liberty, Franklinville, Asheboro and Ramseur.
Greensboro
fwhomeboy said:
GREENSBORO N.C. (WGHP)— Verizon announced on Tuesday it will turn on its 4G LTE network in Greensboro, Winston-Salem and High Point on July 21.
4G mobile service gives consumers service up to 10 times faster than a 3G network. The company expects average data rates in real-world, loaded network environments to be 5 to 12 megabits per second (Mbps) on the downlink and 2 to 5 Mbps on the uplink.
The 4G technology also will improve coverage strength inside buildings, as it runs on a powerful 700 megahertz wireless frequency.
The deployment provides 4G coverage throughout the surrounding areas of Cooleemee, Mocksville, Lexington, Welcome, Bermuda Run, Clemmons, Lewisville, Bethania, Rural Hall, Tobaccoville, King, Walkertown, Kernersville, Stokesdale, Oak Ridge, Summerfield, McLeansville, Whitsett, Sedalia, Jamestown, Archdale, Thomasville, Trinity, Randleman, Forest Oaks, Pleasant Garden, Liberty, Franklinville, Asheboro and Ramseur.
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Click to collapse
Anyone see 4G yet in the Triad ???
I know it's live in Charlotte. Great speed results too when we were down there testing it for work.
Still won't see it in Winston until later this month though.
I think the asheville and hendersonville area will be going live at this time too.
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fwhomeboy said:
The deployment provides 4G coverage throughout the surrounding areas of Cooleemee, Mocksville, Lexington, Welcome, Bermuda Run, Clemmons, Lewisville, Bethania, Rural Hall, Tobaccoville, King, Walkertown, Kernersville, Stokesdale, Oak Ridge, Summerfield, McLeansville, Whitsett, Sedalia, Jamestown, Archdale, Thomasville, Trinity, Randleman, Forest Oaks, Pleasant Garden, Liberty, Franklinville, Asheboro and Ramseur.
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Of course, it doesn't make it up to Rockingham county...perhaps in a few years... At least I can get 4g when I go to Krispy Kreme!
strongergravity said:
Of course, it doesn't make it up to Rockingham county...perhaps in a few years... At least I can get 4g when I go to Krispy Kreme!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did anyone notice the 4G icon here in Greensboro today ?
what about Raleigh, NC?
Should be next for sure. Heard rumor of 07/23
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strongergravity said:
Of course, it doesn't make it up to Rockingham county...perhaps in a few years... At least I can get 4g when I go to Krispy Kreme!
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you'll only have to wait until 2013 at the latest! and if it's near/in your county, even as a poor signal, you'll get it probably early next year if verizon didn't announce your city this year.
somedude1119 said:
what about Raleigh, NC?
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I thought Raleigh would be before Greensboro.
I'd be all for this if I had a TB.
somedude1119 said:
what about Raleigh, NC?
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Click to collapse
Raleigh is on the list to go live on July 21st along with Greensboro/Winston-Salem
PJnc284 said:
Raleigh is on the list to go live on July 21st along with Greensboro/Winston-Salem
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Click to collapse
Have you seen the 4G Icon flash yet???
haven't really paid attention to it since I mainly use wifi because of the crap signal in my office. Know it was on for a couple hours a month or so ago but that's the only time I've noticed.
PJnc284 said:
haven't really paid attention to it since I mainly use wifi because of the crap signal in my office. Know it was on for a couple hours a month or so ago but that's the only time I've noticed.
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Click to collapse
I noticed it then too. But, the other day I saw it flash for a min. then nothing since.
Glad to hear that 4G will be available in Greensboro.. I go to school there and cant wait to tether my TB to my computer instead of using the schools wifi. Also it will be nice to have 4G whenever since I dont where I live. Thank you OP for this update.
Awesome, now i can try out the 4G when I'm around!
fwhomeboy said:
I thought Raleigh would be before Greensboro.
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Click to collapse
you would think, but they did the same thing back in the day for 3g...it was charlotte, then triad, then raleigh then western nc. I am in hickory, an hr north of charlotte and 1.5 hrs west of greensboro...so close, yet so far away
sincerity said:
you would think, but they did the same thing back in the day for 3g...it was charlotte, then triad, then raleigh then western nc. I am in hickory, an hr north of charlotte and 1.5 hrs west of greensboro...so close, yet so far away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 4G Icon was on today at 2:20 !!!! Greensboro is apparently testing today. It's not as fast as Charlotte but maybe that because it's reverting back to 3G sometimes.
fwhomeboy said:
The 4G Icon was on today at 2:20 !!!! Greensboro is apparently testing today. It's not as fast as Charlotte but maybe that because it's reverting back to 3G sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back to 3G now.

Lima, Ohio LTE testing

It appears as if Lima, Ohio will be soon joining the 4G parade.
a test deployment for over an hour and half went out last night. It popped in and out from about 1250 to 230 am.
to be noted, 3g speeds are currently ridiculously fast, reading 1667 dl/831 ul as tested by speedtest.
Your in west ohio right I'm in northeast ohio the youngstown/warren area and we haven't seen a nitch.
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brisdaddy1207 said:
Your in west ohio right I'm in northeast ohio the youngstown/warren area and we haven't seen a nitch.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, NW Ohio, about 70 miles south of Toledo.
I know they are looking to expand Columbus and Cinci on Aug 18, maybe they will launch us then.
/waiting game
Dayton is covered too. And so is Bowling Green. And Fostoria of all places!
loonatik78 said:
Dayton is covered too. And so is Bowling Green. And Fostoria of all places!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, the head of LTE deployment is a Buckeye fan
as for Fo-town, yes...perplexing, but I'm sure all the 4G phones sold there are bulletproof
obededom said:
yes, the head of LTE deployment is a Buckeye fan
as for Fo-town, yes...perplexing, but I'm sure all the 4G phones sold there are bulletproof
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... It does seem Ohio has the best LTE coverage by percent than just about any other state. It's almost hard to avoid it now.
So far nothing for Newark.
Though Lancaster and all these other places have it around. Kinda ticks me off a little.
Ohio was more or less a test ground for 3G. When a lot of the 3G came out it was Nortel equipment as they had exclusive rights for verizon towers early on.
I just wish they would turn up the power in Toledo. I'm in Michigan and the damn signal dies about 200 yards from the house. Even on the Verizon map it shows where it dies and it is about spot on.
I live in NE Ohio in on the outskirts South East of the Cleveland 4G area. According to VZW map, I'm considered "extended 4G". I've owned the phone since launch and have never seen 4G in my home until this morning. It's been twelve hours now and I still have it. They must have cranked up something around Cleveland and Akron.
London ohio has 4g
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Dangit! I have mine on CDMA only and was wondering why I was stuck on 1x last night.
Where in town did you have it?
Dilpickle1 said:
Where in town did you have it?
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I'm north of Lima, Cairo area
last night, I'm hearing reports of 4g being tested 3am - 4am
obededom said:
I'm north of Lima, Cairo area
last night, I'm hearing reports of 4g being tested 3am - 4am
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Click to collapse
I'm south of Lima.. Cridersville Area. Did you have it in cairo? Would love 4g to actually cover the whole town.
Well they must be screwing with something. I have NO data right now lol. I live just 4 miles west of Lima.
obededom said:
I'm north of Lima, Cairo area
last night, I'm hearing reports of 4g being tested 3am - 4am
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you actually have LTE in Cario or did you just hear about it?
My data coverage has been sporadic for the past few days North of you in Ottawa. It would be awesome if Ottawa and Cario was included in the Lima market.
yutzybrian said:
Well they must be screwing with something. I have NO data right now lol. I live just 4 miles west of Lima.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the cridersville area and I currently have two bars of LTE.
to confirm and clarify...yes, I'm just east of Cairo and I had a strong 4G signal...for little awhile
good to see so may dudes in my backyard up in here. Peace out bros
We're not officially on until August 18th but I can tell you that pretty much the entire city of Memphis has been on since August 5th.
We'll all be lit up on August 18th though.
It's about damn time!
CanesDrew said:
We're not officially on until August 18th but I can tell you that pretty much the entire city of Memphis has been on since August 5th.
We'll all be lit up on August 18th though.
It's about damn time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
11:55pm on Wednesday and I have two bars of LTE... again.
This is the 4th night they have been testing that I have seen dating back to July 27th. They have been more frequent in the past week. Lima is in the express lane for lte bc our area is tops in the country when it comes to vzw concenration and sales in data related products.

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