Hey people,
I just want to say something that is bugging me about android updates. It is depended on what manufacturer you have for getting system updates(eclair, froyo...) and most of them don't release updates for some reason about google or their own policies(for selling new devices, maybe incompatible(!) or else). But we see some groups release custom roms for popular models. that means they are compatible and it can be done. and some devices don't get any or get not fully functional roms because of their developers are not so talented, they have small developer group or other reasons. So this device owners never gets new apps or functionalities they may have. So my question is will we have to toss that devices to trash or is it possible to make system updates device independent?
Thanks.
It is not possible to make a universal update, because all devices have their own specific hardware builds that need to be compensated with specific drivers to make use of what that Device can do. Even custom roms only work with one device or another similar product. Also every company wants to make their software unique to the rest of the crowd such as motorolas motoblur and samsungs touchwiz. So no, there never will be one update that works for all because of hardware.
Related
Basically, what i want to know is, what is so fundamentally different between phones and PCs that makes it that much harder to flash a different OS on a phone than it is to to install a new OS on a PC. Even switching from Windows to Ubuntu is pretty idiot proof. Aren't there fewer varieties of processors out there for phones than there are for PCs?
Does it have to do with producer/manufacturer modifications of the OS(but that wouldn't affect the hardware, right?)? Is it because phone OS's have to omit drivers(or something else i do not know is required for an OS to function) for multiple device components to save space?
Thank you for your time.
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To give you some background about my level of understanding in computer science. The only exposure i have are an Introduction to Programming(Java) class that i took in college and OpenCourseWare videos of a few introductory programming lectures. And the articles etc from various tech websites like Ars Technica, AnandTech, etc.
As for my goals from asking these questions, i would like to be able to create my own custom ROMs, or apps at the very least. And yes, i know i have a LOOONG way to go.
Thank you again for reading this far into my thread.
In short, Google do make updates available to all phones. It's the manufacturers who stand in the way. They decide which of their devices get updates and when.
The whole thing is also complicated by the awful customizations that each manufacturer makes to Android OS so that every official update needs modifying to work with those customizations.
Good luck with your future endeavors
DirkGently1 said:
In short, Google do make updates available to all phones. It's the manufacturers who stand in the way. They decide which of their devices get updates and when.
The whole thing is also complicated by the awful customizations that each manufacturer makes to Android OS so that every official update needs modifying to work with those customizations.
Good luck with your future endeavors
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then what is stopping us rooted fellas from just flashing stock Android onto our phones the same way we swap Windows for Ubuntu on our PCs?
ArdorNg said:
But then what is stopping us rooted fellas from just flashing stock Android onto our phones the same way we swap Windows for Ubuntu on our PCs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely nothing
This is why we have XDA!
DirkGently1 said:
Absolutely nothing
This is why we have XDA!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So why are all the ROMs out there phone specific? Is it possible to create a ROM that can be flashed on all phones?(is it already available? And if so, where?)
ArdorNg said:
So why are all the ROMs out there phone specific? Is it possible to create a ROM that can be flashed on all phones?(is it already available? And if so, where?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No generic ROM no. The most widespread custom ROM is Cyanogenmod but because of hardware differences between devices each build has to have the appropriate drivers to tailor it to a specific device.
Security measures are another factor too as different manufacturers use different methods to lock down the phones. This means that the process of flashing ROMs can vary as well.
When Google releases a new version of Android it is available to everyone to use but you can't just slap it onto any old device as it is and expect it to work. The chefs need to work their magic to make it compatable with the individual devices.
DirkGently1 said:
No generic ROM no ... because of hardware differences between devices each build has to have the appropriate drivers to tailor it to a specific device.
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Click to collapse
My question was why can't they build the Android like other PC OSes, with drivers for all available hardware? There are definitely fewer varieties of hardware for smartphones than there are for PCs, no? Is it because of space constraints or are there other issues at play?
It's up to the manufacturers to make their devices compatible with Android rather than Googles responsibility to make Android compatable with a thousand varying hardware components, and the millions of hardware combinations that could potentially make a handset!
I'm sure they could create Generic drivers that work so-so, but i'd rather have devices that actually work well and not have to download ROMs which are the size of your average XP install.
DirkGently1 said:
It's up to the manufacturers to make their devices compatible with Android rather than Googles responsibility to make Android compatable with a thousand varying hardware components, and the millions of hardware combinations that could potentially make a handset!
I'm sure they could create Generic drivers that work so-so, but i'd rather have devices that actually work well and not have to download ROMs which are the size of your average XP install.
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Hmmmmmm. So drivers are the only constraint?
Then i guess i have a more specific goal then! If no one has done it already... I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind the large size. Though actually writing it would probably take so long that we can only release a 2.3 generic ROM when 2.7 comes out... which kind of defeats the purpose... except maybe for the folks still stuck on pre-Froyo devices... That and how to keep the extra drivers from being bloat...
Why is it not possible to "just" install latest Android on entry-level phones
I'm just curious, given that android has a linux kernel ( although modified ).
Why is it not possible to just download the latest android os and install
it on any 600+ Mhz 256+ Mb ram entry level phone.
I understand that it takes forever for phone companies ( samsung, htc, etc )
to issue updates because they have to tailor a lot of custom signature
bloatware for their updates, which in some instances makes it not possible
to provide updates on older phones.
But for a pure vanilla install, I just don't see why Google or the Android
division can't release the base OS that people may install on the fly, never
mind if it wipes everything out. I know for a fact that the latest ubuntu / linuxmint
can be installed on hardware from over 5 years ago, with less than 10%
of the current high end specs; this ( for me ) makes android landscape
rather confusing... and quite deceptive.
It as alot to do with the different drivers each device.uses for the radio, screen, touch button and so on.
You have to take into account device-specific drivers, hardware, and a lot more. Imagine if every time a new version of Android was released, devs would have to prepare for every possible legacy chip, and new ones. Android would be a huge, bloated mess. It just isn't feasible.
Plus, from a carrier/phone manufacturer point of view, if you could just get the latest features by installing a simple update, than what would be the incentive for you to buy a new phone?
Hopefully this is a semi-helpful explanation (I'm sure I've left out some stuff that some others will add).
@closeone, I don't see why this can't be feasible. this is exactly what linux distributions already do, release new versions and still provide support for old devices.
I can understand the carrier/phone manufacturer perspective, it is what it is.
But what i don't get is why android development can't provide complete support, for at least the devices released from a year ago. At some point, these devices still
have to comply to certain standards;
Ultimately, I'm getting the impression that Google is starting to expect the users to throw away their smartphones year in and year out.
prokofiev said:
@closeone, I don't see why this can't be feasible. this is exactly what linux distributions already do, release new versions and still provide support for old devices.
I can understand the carrier/phone manufacturer perspective, it is what it is.
But what i don't get is why android development can't provide complete support, for at least the devices released from a year ago. At some point, these devices still
have to comply to certain standards;
Ultimately, I'm getting the impression that Google is starting to expect the users to throw away their smartphones year in and year out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you can but like Linux it takes some work to get proper drivers and hardware features. The Android OS is a developer based platform. So it can be done. Look at CM they do it just fine. It is alot of work though
ok, I'll concede that it takes time and effort to achieve this goal. Still,
I'm inclined to think that a huge company like Google behind this platform,
they can do for android what Ubuntu, Debian, etc. do for Linux.
prokofiev said:
@closeone, I don't see why this can't be feasible. this is exactly what linux distributions already do, release new versions and still provide support for old devices.
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Click to collapse
You would have to get all the different device manufacturers in the world to not only release their proprietary driver code but, for a standard one for all rom, include all possible drivers in it.
Linux comes on discs and can afford to use lots of space for drivers that a basic phone could not.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Can anyone answer me these 2 questions? They're just eating away at me right now and its making me so confus.
1) Why does each Android device need to be individually updated to the latest OS? I mean they say its because the hardware is different on each device but look @ desktops and laptops, there are so many variable hardware parts yet every time Windows updates the old hardware is compatible with the new OS and updating is a breeze. Why is this so different for Android?
2) Why do manufacturers feel the need to lock phones down so much? For example, the only thing holding us back from having a functioning ICS ROM is the RIL, which Sammy refuses to release. Carriers and manufacturers alike get so much hate for always lagging on updating our phones to the latest OS, but if our phones werent so locked down they would never have to worry about updating a phone again because the dev community would take care of all of that for us. And if they decide that one of the 3rd party dev releases should be released OTA instead of forcing us to go online and do it ourselves then they could contact the developer and compensate them for their work so they could get permission to release it. They save time and the devs get money for something they normally do for free. Win win from my perspective.
It comes down to drivers. Computers are a mix of parts that weren't necessary built to work together in the exact combination, so all of the manufacturers provide drivers to make their parts talk to the OS in a common language. Android phones have this too, but the drivers aren't generally available to us a users; they're only provided to the manufacturers, or written specifically by the OEM, and may be under various types of NDAs or close sources licenses. Android as an OS isn't written for a specific phone or device combination (save for the Nexus releases) and does not include the drivers, so it's up to the OEM to compile it with all the drivers needed to run on a particular piece of hardware. Without those drivers, the OS won't work with a particular device.
As for the RIL, it's my assumption that it's under a closed source license provided to the OEM. Samsung has been pretty open about things, so it's more likely it's Qualcomm/VIA that has the controls in place and completely out of Samsung's hands.
Shrike is dead-on with drivers. Lockdown is also a support issue. Support a couple hundred desktops where every tom **** and harry can do whatever they want? Service packs, patch Tuesdays. fun fun fun. lock it down and only deal with apk's that don't work or don't play well together. manageable chaos is the goal.
Hi guys,
I have bought the phonebaby6s from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Sudroid-SOYES-Smartphone-Android-Mtk6572/dp/B01M8LM868/
This phone is terrific. It fits easily in the palm of your hand, runs android 5.1 and does most of what I want from a mobile phone. I'm having some problems with the phone and would like to ask questions about it here. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a forum for this phone on XDA developers. The phone seems to be sold by several vendors ( sudroid, Soyes, hippipoo and possibly others. ). I am not able to find a support site. None of the vendors have web sites and there is no information available from google. There are at least two versions of the phone . Mine is LTE but some are 3G only.
On kickstarter right now is a project for the Jelly phone. The Jelly is both larger and has a smaller battery than the phonebaby6s. The PhoneBaby is a terrific device and needs it's own forum.
I want to find info on rooting the phone. The phone is hanging on updates at the moment. I also have not been able to use USB transfer due to unknown device error.
yahoodimenuin said:
Hi guys,
I have bought the phonebaby6s from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Sudroid-SOYES-Smartphone-Android-Mtk6572/dp/B01M8LM868/
This phone is terrific. It fits easily in the palm of your hand, runs android 5.1 and does most of what I want from a mobile phone. I'm having some problems with the phone and would like to ask questions about it here. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a forum for this phone on XDA developers. The phone seems to be sold by several vendors ( sudroid, Soyes, hippipoo and possibly others. ). I am not able to find a support site. None of the vendors have web sites and there is no information available from google. There are at least two versions of the phone . Mine is LTE but some are 3G only.
On kickstarter right now is a project for the Jelly phone. The Jelly is both larger and has a smaller battery than the phonebaby6s. The PhoneBaby is a terrific device and needs it's own forum.
I want to find info on rooting the phone. The phone is hanging on updates at the moment. I also have not been able to use USB transfer due to unknown device error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone is not an actual supported device made by a real company/manufacturer. Your device is one of the devices known as a "clone". There are a lot of so-called "companies" that use various pieces of cheap Chinese hardware components that were originally designed for other devices, they put all these components together even though they weren't designed to work with each other(similar to building a car from parts of other cars) then they "hack" together an operating system for the device, usually the OS on a clone is unstable.
They do not have an actual company to support the device, they have no stock source code to release and no stock firmware to make available to the public. This is because the devices they make are not all made of the same combination of components and this makes it impossible for them to have a stock source code or stock firmware because each of the devices would not be able to use it even though the devices all "look" the same and have the same "name".
You probably won't find any kind of information about the device and I can almost guarantee that the device will not be supported at XDA unless you do it yourself. There are no developers that would ever own or work on that device because it's not something that any of them would be interested in, they all have much better devices than that and they only work on the devices they personally own. If you want root and custom recoveries or ROMs then you'll have to figure all that out and put it all together for yourself. And even if you do all of that and build your own recovery and your own ROMs and post them on XDA, it still won't get its own forum because I can guarantee that there are not enough people that own that device, XDA only creates forums for devices that have a large community of users that own the device.
Your device is just too "unknown"
Get a better device and stop buying generic Chinese devices.
Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
Hi All,
While I was searching for a new device to purchase, this question popped into my head: how do ROM developers decide which devices to support? Admittedly, this question arose because I wanted to find a phone that would be compatible with the most ROMs and is currently still under active development. But I also am genuinely curious as well.
I'm new to the custom ROM scene and just started researching but from what I can understand, most, if not all, developers are doing this on their own free time without any sort of payment. In that case, I would assume, they would only support devices that they have access to, in other words, devices that are currently using and have used. Additionally, developers are probably tech-savvy so I am also assuming that most developers will choose a phone that they think is best. Although what is best is subjective, I believe that there are a common set of desired features which will lead to a couple of devices being more popular than others. As a result, some phones will see support from a wide variety of ROMs while others will see a few or none at all.
I went through a couple of the ROMs I was interested in from this list (https://www.xda-developers.com/the-most-popular-custom-roms-on-xda/), and found that Nexus 5x was common between them all. I can't recall what phone was popular during 2015 but was this phone really so popular/desired that all ROM developers seems to have one lying around in 2019/2020? Its been past 4 years since its launch and I assume that its specs are very outdated compared to what we have now but it is still being supported by many ROMs. What lead to this phone to become such a commonly supported phone by ROM developers?
The Nexus line was at a good price point, good hardware for the time and fully supported factory images from Google with regular updates, next to impossible to hard brick, worked across multiple carriers worldwide, easy to unlock bootloader, custom recoveries available, and popular following. I'm sure I've missed something [emoji846]
Device's that are only available in a limited market, or are unable to be bootloader unlocked, don't have factory images are difficult to support and have a limited following reduces the likelihood that a person interested in developing will buy that phone.
ktmom said:
The Nexus line was at a good price point, good hardware for the time and fully supported factory images from Google with regular updates, next to impossible to hard brick, worked across multiple carriers worldwide, easy to unlock bootloader, custom recoveries available, and popular following. I'm sure I've missed something [emoji846]
Device's that are only available in a limited market, or are unable to be bootloader unlocked, don't have factory images are difficult to support and have a limited following reduces the likelihood that a person interested in developing will buy that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't mind, could I have your opinion on Moto G5 Plus in regards to ROM support? It appears to be supported by Pixel Experience, AOSP Extended, and ResurrectionRemix so it looks like it has a fair amount of support. However, when I view the top devices page on XDA (https://forum.xda-developers.com/top) I don't see the Moto G5 Plus. Would there be any relationship between the top devices on XDA and devices supported by the most ROMs?
No, there really is not a correlation between the top devices on XDA and ROM support.
The top devices reflects basically the activity within the forum. So new device releases will trigger people's curiosity so even though there may be zero ROM support, the device has activity.
A device like the Moto G5 plus that has been out for awhile, just doesn't have loads of activity in the forums. There is still activity on ROM threads, but it's more sporadic.
Got it, thanks for your help. Looks like I'll just have to keep digging through the forums and rom websites and try to make an educated guess about what device has and will continue having the most rom support.
The lineageOS support for the Nexus 6 is ongoing and that phone was released in 2014. There was a lot of passion surrounding that device, but as developers had their device fail (battery died, screen broken, ect), they moved onto other devices.
My point is, the best you can do is find a popular phone in your price range and hope. The OnePlus series may be worth looking at.