I've heard so many different answers over the years about charging, draining, cycling etc.
For the most part I guess it comes down to ni vs li.
For this discussion i'd like to keep it purely in regards to lithium batteries.
- Do batteries have a limited life cycle?
e.g. X number of charges.
- Is it ok to do half charges if we don't have time to fully charge to 100%?
- Is it ok to keep your battery plugged in at all times as you are using it?
e.g. When i'm at work all day I leave my phone out on the desk and use it as a clock/notification screen. When I'm at home I do the same. The only time I take it off the charger is if I am not at work or at home. So the battery could be connected for a good 20 hours at a time while constantly being used.
- Is it best to use the phone until the battery is completely depleted and shuts off automatically?
- What types of patterns degrade the life of the battery quicker?
- How can we prolong the life out of our batteries in terms of charging?
e.g. use ac over usb.
- Is it ok to use chargers that have a lower voltage rating than the native charger?
- What risks do you run from using cheap no name chargers?
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http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges.
Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.
Aging of lithium-ion is an issue that is often ignored. A lithium-ion battery in use typically lasts between 2-3 years. The capacity loss manifests itself in increased internal resistance caused by oxidation. Eventually, the cell resistance reaches a point where the pack can no longer deliver the stored energy although the battery may still have ample charge.
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The question is often asked, should the laptop be disconnected from the main when not in use? Under normal circumstances, it should not matter with lithium-ion. Once the battery is fully charged, no further charge is applied. However, there is always the concern is malfunction of the AC adapter, the laptop or the battery.
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Generally speaking, batteries live longer if treated in a gentle manner. High charge voltages, excessive charge rate and extreme load conditions will have a negative effect and shorten the battery life.
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So, in response to your questions:
Yes, they have a limited life span - they will degrade after a certain number of charge/discharge cycles, and they also degrade over time even if not used.
As there is no memory effect, I don't anticipate there being a problem from half charges.
Barring the unlikely possibility of the AC adapter malfunctioning, there is no harm in leaving the phone plugged in.
It is best to top up the charge whenever possible. It has a negative effect on battery life to run down lithium ion batteries to run them down to flat, although it's worth doing occasionally to calibrate digital battery gauges.
Frequent full discharge cycles, excessive heat and high battery load reduce battery life.
I'm not certain if USB is better or worse than the AC adapter, but as USB only puts out 500mA and AC adapters may be capable of more, USB may be slightly gentler on the battery but take longer to charge?
I wouldn't recommend using different voltage chargers, but I don't know about this specifically. USB and most AC adapters for phones provide 5V. Certainly don't use one that puts out a higher voltage. A lower voltage may not be able to charge the battery properly.
I don't know about cheap adapters. If they provide reliable output that matches what your device requires then there should be no problem; if they don't, then that could cause issues.
Is it possible to control by what percent the dock will charge the tablet, I know the dock will start charging the moment the tablet reaches 69% and it will charge it to 90%, but is there any way to control it, say make it charge by a less amount or at a different percent?
I use both the dock and tablet but im not always connected to the dock and I might reach 40% by the time I connect it to the dock, and I would continue to use the tablet which will really decrease the dock battery really quickly.
No way to do this I'm afraid. At least not with the standard firmware. I don't know if there's a custom firmware which can do this.
By the way, I'm not sure I understand the problem you describe. As far as I can see, you *want* the dock battery to discharge at this point, to ensure you get as much life as possible out of the tablet.
Do you understand that the keyboard, USB port and SD card reader in the dock are powered from the tablet battery, not the dock battery? It's no problem to let the dock battery discharge completely and keep using it.
thread. just wondering, can I still use it if the dock battery is empty (when it's attached to the tablet)?
eriol33 said:
thread. just wondering, can I still use it if the dock battery is empty (when it's attached to the tablet)?
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Yes, you can.
Yes but bear in mind, if the battery drops to 0%, you might struggle to get it to charge again
noted. thanks for the hints. I always bring charger with me. I wish I could control the charge when using the dock. for example, let the dock charges when the tablet's battery is near 10% or some sort. oh well.
Yea the tablet always takes priority when charging via the dock, the way it is designed is to make sure the tablet always has the most charge under all circumstances - so when using it docked and on battery, the dock will drain first - when docked and charging from the wall, the tablet charges first / fastest
The way I use mine is I charge them both up full and use it docked until the dock battery is low - then I undock and charge the dock on its own while I use the tablet battery - the dock generally always reaches full charge before the tablet battery runs out, then I can dock again and keep using them both on battery again - that way I get the longest possible use from the tablet before having to charge them both back up from the wall
it's also worth mentioning keeping the tablet docked will run both devices down. It's hardware-related, so best to leave them undocked until you run the tablet to 10% or so. Best results I've discovered.
Hey guys,
I was looking for some clarification on this topic.
So I heard on a youtube video (can't remember which, for the life of me, I just know it was an S8 video) that Wireless Charging has a better impact on battery in the long run.
They had stated that the battery would continue to hold a better charge over time, where as, if you used wired charging, the amount of charge the battery can hold over time would be much less to when you first got it.
Now I do know that battery gets worse over time, however, I have never heard anything about how wireless charging can increase the longitivtiy of the battery.
Maybe someone on here might have more information on this?
I will try to find that youtube video but if this is the case, then I will definitely need to get a wireless charger.
Regards
Unless this youtuber tested 2 phones for a year, charging one with a cable and another with wireless charging i wouldn't listen to what they're saying.
peachpuff said:
Unless this youtuber tested 2 phones for a year, charging one with a cable and another with wireless charging i wouldn't listen to what they're saying.
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Yeah I agree. A believe a charge cycle is the same regardless of how it is being charged.
Would never think wired charging puts more stress on battery life.
I think though that with wireless charging once the phone is fully charged the pad cuts out so it won't over charge
With a wired connection when the phone is charged its still consistently trying to charge which can end up damage battering the long term
craigels said:
I think though that with wireless charging once the phone is fully charged the pad cuts out so it won't over charge
With a wired connection when the phone is charged its still consistently trying to charge which can end up damage battering the long term
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This is also what I have been wondering. If this is true then I may get a nice wireless pad for charging overnight (maybe the new official samsung "convertible" one but its damn expensive). I would have thought that the phone itself knows when a battery is charged and stops drawing the current from the cable though, so it would make no difference either way if that is true (but perhaps its not?).
But I did hear the exact opposite to op, that wireless charging was worse for the batteries, possibly due to the heat generated. But I don't know how true that is.
True
It's better for the battery because it charges it more slowly than a direct wired connection. There is no more heat buildup than using a wired charger, in fact likely less since the charging rate is lower.
As for the other comment that a wired charger doesn't shut off but keeps charging once the battery is full is patently false. The charging circuits whether wired or wireless are quite intelligent and gradually ramp down the charging current as the battery approaches capacity, ultimately delivering just enough current to keep the phone running. In a closed system the energy has to go somewhere and if the charger didn't do this you'd have 18W of power being dissipated as heat and a serious problem on your hands.
craigdamey said:
It's better for the battery because it charges it more slowly than a direct wired connection. There is no more heat buildup than using a wired charger, in fact likely less since the charging rate is lower.
As for the other comment that a wired charger doesn't shut off but keeps charging once the battery is full is patently false. The charging circuits whether wired or wireless are quite intelligent and gradually ramp down the charging current as the battery approaches capacity, ultimately delivering just enough current to keep the phone running. In a closed system the energy has to go somewhere and if the charger didn't do this you'd have 18W of power being dissipated as heat and a serious problem on your hands.
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For wireless I believe the heat generated is more, it is about the method of delivering the power, not the speed. The induction used to transfer power wirelessly is obviously going to be far less efficient and will generate more heat to get even a slower transfer rate then getting the power straight down a cable (but if someone knows otherwise then feel free to correct me). But then I guess the slower charging rate might also put less stress on the battery which is probably good.
For the wired, what you are basically saying is that leaving a phone plugged in to a wired charger will not harm it since the current will have been reduced in the same way a car battery charger might reduce it to a "maintenance" mode once it is fully charged. So people are believing the old myths that you can overcharge a phone, which would seem to be impossible (although I do wonder why they keep slapping up notifications saying things like "FULLY CHARGED! UNPLUG CABLE!" as if leaving it plugged in would in some way damage it!).
Just saw this which explains the overcharging possibility (or lack of)
http://www.androidauthority.com/leave-phone-plugged-overnight-703078/
ewokuk said:
For wireless I believe the heat generated is more, it is about the method of delivering the power, not the speed. [/url]
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The coils themselves don't generate a significant amount of heat, it's the battery itself that causes the phone to get hot. Slower charging means less heat, which is better for your battery so wireless charging will increase your battery life. As the article notes it is also best to keep your phone above 40% charge, partly because fast chargers slow down significantly after 50% to save the battery. That initial burst from 0-50% is done to save you from a dying battery but it takes its toll.
Also note that the S8/S8+ have new battery technology that provides much improved battery life. They're saying 5% loss of capacity after two years compared to 20% for previous generations.
As a bonus not continuously plugging/unplugging a cable from your USB port will make that last longer too. I hardly ever plug my S7 Edge into a physical cable, and I know quite a few people who have killed their USB ports and can no longer charge and or transfer data from them.
craigdamey said:
The coils themselves don't generate a significant amount of heat, it's the battery itself that causes the phone to get hot. Slower charging means less heat, which is better for your battery so wireless charging will increase your battery life. As the article notes it is also best to keep your phone above 40% charge, partly because fast chargers slow down significantly after 50% to save the battery. That initial burst from 0-50% is done to save you from a dying battery but it takes its toll.
Also note that the S8/S8+ have new battery technology that provides much improved battery life. They're saying 5% loss of capacity after two years compared to 20% for previous generations.
As a bonus not continuously plugging/unplugging a cable from your USB port will make that last longer too. I hardly ever plug my S7 Edge into a physical cable, and I know quite a few people who have killed their USB ports and can no longer charge and or transfer data from them.
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Yeah I am torn at the moment between using cable and getting a wireless charger. I like my stuff charged asap but that's partly because i never leave it plugged in overnight and want it charged before bed (which I now know is not a problem anyway) and partly because i want to be able to unplug it to use it if i get a message or email, which isn't an issue with wireless as I can just pick it up and put it back on there after. I assume taking it off the charging pad and putting it back on will not have any detrimental effects to the battery. I am just trying to weigh up the pros and cons of each. All things considered I am leaning towards wireless, particularly if it isn't worse for the battery (although lets face it the difference in degradation between wireless and wired, is going to be so small it's probably not even noticeable after a couple of years by which time I would have a new phone anyway). I wonder if there is a better wireless charger which will be more future proof than the new convertible samsung one (in case I ditch samsung in future) and still give max speed, I would like one that is tilted so I can see the screen though.
My s5 is 3 years old and has only ever been charged by the massive double width "micro USB" cable which takes some force to get in and out of the socket. Still works perfectly though. Never had any usb port of any kind on any device fail, no idea what these other people are doing to kill them!
ewokuk said:
Yeah I am torn at the moment between using cable and getting a wireless charger.
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Having the dock by my bed is very convenient. Just place it on at night and pick it up during the morning. If I need to grab it for anything I can without getting tangled up in wires and it even sits at the right angle so that the always on display becomes my nightstand clock/alarm clock. Once you've gone wireless you won't go back.
craigdamey said:
Having the dock by my bed is very convenient. Just place it on at night and pick it up during the morning. If I need to grab it for anything I can without getting tangled up in wires and it even sits at the right angle so that the always on display becomes my nightstand clock/alarm clock. Once you've gone wireless you won't go back.
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I always turn my phone off at night anyway so I don't get disturbed by some spam message or something (I know I can probably set it up to be silent at certain times, but then why leave it on at all, using the battery for nothing). £70 for that Samsung charger though!! I know there are much cheaper ones but I am not sure they will charge at the same rate, the new samsung one charges faster than any previous wireless charger AFAIK and I would want one where the phone can sit up, and most are just flat. Hmmmm although the do have it for £50 on amazon sold by "fonejoy", still steep though.
This one looks good https://www.amazon.co.uk/CHOETECH-W...=UTF8&qid=1492192247&sr=1-9&keywords=choetech but not sure if itll charge at the same speed as the new samsung one and doesnt use a USB-C connector which probably rules it out. May as well just get the samsung one.
I use the US version of this and it works fine. https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Mobile-P...d=1492192742&sr=1-5&keywords=rav+power+qc+2.0. The Fast Charging Dock comes with a cable so that should be all you need.
And yes, I have my Do Not Disturb settings to suppress notifications 10:30PM to 6:30AM. Wife complained she couldn't sleep with all that noise going on
craigdamey said:
I use the US version of this and it works fine. https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Mobile-P...d=1492192742&sr=1-5&keywords=rav+power+qc+2.0. The Fast Charging Dock comes with a cable so that should be all you need.
And yes, I have my Do Not Disturb settings to suppress notifications 10:30PM to 6:30AM. Wife complained she couldn't sleep with all that noise going on
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Thats a wall charger? I'm talking about the charging pad itself. I believe the new Samsung one outputs 15w so is faster than any previous ones which are all 10w I think.
ewokuk said:
Thats a wall charger? I'm talking about the charging pad itself. I believe the new Samsung one outputs 15w so is faster than any previous ones which are all 10w I think.
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There are only two types of charging dock, standard and fast-charge. None of them output 15W to the phone. The expensive Samsung is just a fancy fast-charge dock so it will charge at the same rate as the Seneo and others that support fast-charge. The Samsung fast-charge adapter only provides a maximum output power of 15W (9V @ 1.67A) so it would require 100% transfer efficiency to charge the phone at that power, and in reality it's only about 65% so at most you'll see 10W versus standard Qi charging at around 7W.
All of the Seneo chargers I have coupled with RavPower or Samsung Fast-Charge adapters charge at the same rate (10W to begin with tapering off to 7W above 50% charge).
craigdamey said:
There are only two types of charging dock, standard and fast-charge. None of them output 15W to the phone. The expensive Samsung is just a fancy fast-charge dock so it will charge at the same rate as the Seneo and others that support fast-charge. The Samsung fast-charge adapter only provides a maximum output power of 15W (9V @ 1.67A) so it would require 100% transfer efficiency to charge the phone at that power, and in reality it's only about 65% so at most you'll see 10W versus standard Qi charging at around 7W.
All of the Seneo chargers I have coupled with RavPower or Samsung Fast-Charge adapters charge at the same rate (10W to begin with tapering off to 7W above 50% charge).
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Ahh ok, I will have to check out a few seneo pads.
If your using fast charging AKA Adaptive charging it shouldn't matter either way. The Fast charging port on the phone, and the wireless charging should go through the phone and the phone should automatically stop all charging going to the battery. This is the reason why if you were to leave your fast charger on all night whether it be Wireless or wired, you can pick your phone up at 99% or 98% instead of 100%. The phone stopped charging, then when it drops to a certain % it starts to charge up again.
As far as which is actually best for strain, it shouldnt matter because afaik to the battery its the all the same. Wireless charging just has some coils almost that send the charge wirelessly, but it still goes to the same place.
This is what I have read from google, so I am no expert on the subject, but it seemed pretty legit, and makes sense to me, a person with a Tech background. If anyone knows better please be my guest.
I'm going with wireless charging pads at home but a magnetic cable for in the car.
Not found a good car holder that has the wireless pad built in so I will stick with my ibolt for a bit longer
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
There is no correct answer to this question. Battery life is function of many things -
1. Every battery has specified charge cycle. One full charge from min to max is 1 cycle. Two full charge from mid to max is also 1 cycle. So the more you use your device, charge cycles will come to an end more quickly. For example if you use two similar spec phones; first one you use heavily requiring full cycle charge everyday vs second which you use less and requires full charge every alternate day (or to phrase in other way, first is almost completely discharged by evening, second is half discharged). So the theory goes that second phone battery will last double the time than first.
2. Every battery articles you read, you will find recommendation to charge battery in specified current or usually slow charging. Today's battery technology should be immune to this but I still turn fast charging off. It is likely that not all the batteries are immune.
3. Heat is bad for battery. Some wireless chargers heat up. The TYLT VU that I use get uncomfortably warm when I place phone vertically (possibly coils do not align and multiple of them gets activated). Heat build up is there during fast charging too. If you play CPU intensive games and charge at the same time, phone gets warm. All this heat is working negative to the life span of battery.
4. Lithium ion batteries have less chemical stress when they are not fully charged or fully discharged. If you research you will find articles telling one to keep battery between 40% to 90%. Hence I usually do not charge to 100% and if I do, I watch or play games to bring battery level down. Search for best charge level to store lithium ion batteries, I think it is from 45% to 50%. This I guess keeps batteries at the least chemical stress state. So do your maths if you are type who likes to keep battery at 100% charge at all the times.
As you can see there is no straight answer to this question. Battery life is function of all these factors.
Added: I didn't read full article but you can check this link which speaks about impact of heat and leaving battery to full charge state.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Thanks for everyones input on this!
By the way, not sure if it has been mentioned, but this is a pretty cool read:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/0...ill-degrade-less-quickly-than-the-galaxy-s7s/
So looks like the S8 won't deteriorate as much over time!
I got the OEM samsung convertible fast charging pad but it doesn't come with a wall plug as I read somewhere (I guess thats just us in the UK getting screwed over yet again). The manual says "Use only Samsung-approved chargers that support fast charging (9v/1.67A, 9v/2A, 12v/2.1A).". So I need a wall plug that will be able to provide the fastest charging speeds from it (which I am guessing is one that does 12v/2.1A??). I dont think all the standard plugs with 2.4a sockets are going to do it right? The "30w" RAVpower one that craigdamey linked says it can do 12v/2A but only for QC3.0 (which I obviously wont get since its just being plugged straight into the charging pad), otherwise its 5v/2.4a. Not sure what one to get now. Theres an Anker 24w one but that says 2.4a per port (I know little about electrics and how these things work!).
So I got an adapter to use a wired headset with my phone, it's one of those that allows for both headphone use and charging, though you need to plug in both, but I notice after I tested them out, my estimated battery drain declined all the way down to 9 hours remaining from a charge of 89 percent.
It used to be anywhere from 23 hours to a whole day, did I just break my battery? I'm not in a position where i can replace it if it goes wrong, especially since I just got this a month ago.
Checked it and it doesn't show any apps sucking power, I also disabled various bloatwares to make sure it would run smoothly.
I only had this phone since December and I made sure to charge it when needed, keeping it at around 40-80% charge as much as I could.
Phone is a OnePlus 8 5G, battery drain before was about a whole day before I needed to charge unless I were watching videos, and even with that it still lasted a good while.
It's not a good idea to use and charge the phone as it disrupts the charging curve*. If the screen is off and the device power usage is minimal like listening to music on bt does not interfere with normal charging, at least on my 10+.
Give the phone it's quiet time to charge.
Limit charges to 80% preferable 70% and discharges to 30% preferably 40% to maximize battery life.
Avoid going under 20% or full charges to 100% as it needlessly stresses the battery.
Li's love short, frequent midrange usage like from 40-65%
Li's hate high heat (>100°F) and high cell voltages ie >90% charge.
Avoid charging below 72°F as it can cause Li plating which will permanently degrade it.
Never attempt to charge if below 32°F.
*if you're drawing power whilst charging the device you can not gauge its actual battery capacity. It will charge much slower or maybe not at all.
Stop that you!
Take a 10 or 15 minute break and let get it take a charge.
blackhawk said:
It's not a good idea to use and charge the phone as it disrupts the charging curve. If the screen is off and the device power usage is minimal like listening to music on bt does not interfere with normal charging, at least on my 10+.
Give the phone it's quiet time to charge.
Limit charges to 80% preferable 70% and discharges to 30% preferably 40% to maximize battery life.
Avoid going under 20% or full charges to 100% as it needlessly stresses the battery.
Li's love short, frequent midrange usage like from 40-65%
Li's hate high heat (>100°F) and high cell voltages ie >90% charge.
Avoid charging below 72°F as it can cause Li plating which will permanently degrade it.
Never attempt to charge if below 32°F.
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I don't use it when it's charging, it's a OnePlus with warp charging so I let it sit until it's either full or usually at around the 80 range.
It seemed fine until I tried using this headset adapter, I don't know if these can break the battery in any way so i don't know if just using this messed something up.
MarkiMarko2221 said:
I don't use it when it's charging, it's a OnePlus with warp charging so I let it sit until it's either full or usually at around the 80 range.
It seemed fine until I tried using this headset adapter, I don't know if these can break the battery in any way so i don't know if just using this messed something up.
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If you have fast charging just use the standard fast charging cable to charge it not the daul use one.
The latter may not be recognized by the phone for fast charging, if so it will default to slow charging.
blackhawk said:
If you have fast charging just use the standard fast charging cable to charge it not the daul use one.
The latter may not be recognized by the phone for fast charging, if so it will default to slow charging.
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Warp Charging works yeah, I'm returning the headset cable and replacing it, since i don't know if it messed my system up, and aside from that it's clunky to use.
Amazon.com: VOLT PLUS TECH USB C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Audio Aux & C-Type Fast Charging Adapter Compatible with Your OnePlus 8and Many More Devices with C-Port : Electronics
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It was this thing.
do you think my battery is just messed up at this point or is it fine? Battery estimates used to show 23 hours to a whole day, but now it's down to 9 hours so I don't know if that messed up my battery somehow.
I doubt it messed up the battery especially if it's been only a week or whatever.
More than likely it's a misbehaving apk(s) causing the drain.
If your battery's rated capacity is 1000 mAh and you're only getting 400 mAh out of it, then you have a battery issue. How long it can run doesn't reflect battery condition unless the load is the same as before. So you need to scrutinize it further before making the assumption the battery has deteriorated.
I use two overlay apks (Accubattery is one) that let me see total current draw in near real time. I'm running Pie and doubt these will run in Q.
At idle my draw is an average of 150 ma or so with lows going down to 79 ma. If I see it averaging 300 ma with spikes going to 800 ma at idle I go looking for the cause.