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Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so , has anyone found a way / .cab to allow the camera to store the picture in RAW format which enables postprocessing with sw like photoshop? Otherwise any tweaks / .cabs to patch the default JPEG & better noise reduction?
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
Hi
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
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That got me thinking, my full-sized camera is only 5 megs (a Nikon and had it a while) but takes absolutely stunning pictures.
It isn't the number of pixels reducing the quality, it is the quality of the optics. You can't expect much out of a lens the size of the one included in Topaz.
I don't think having a RAW output would help matters any.
Regards
Phil
Actually, sensor quality is the biggest issue here. Phone camera sensors are tiny and thus don't have the same image fidelity of sensors in dedicated cams. Sure, they're pulling 5MPs out like a point and shoot, but there's a lot less light sensitivity in them. Take the same shot with a cell phone and with a DSLR into an app like Adobe Lightroom and increse the brightness (not exposure). On the DSLR shot, you'd instantly see the extra detail come out of the shadows. On the cell phone shot, you'd see mostly noise and detail masked with noise.
On sensors this size, i doubt the lens would make much difference. The difference between plastic and glass (i believe) is mostly academic. About the best you could hope for is reduced chromatic abherration and flaring, but no manufacturer is going to waste the kind of money necessary to put pro-level or even prosumer glass on a phone, particularly one with a standard-sized sensor.
Also, try the demo version of Neat Image:
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html
It'll batch process up to two images. It's not a deep as the pro version, but it gets the job done.
I seem to be alone in liking the photo quality on the TD2! You need good lighting, and if you stick to ISO100 (200 at a pinch) and reduce "brightness" by "1", the results are better than a lot of compact cameras I've used. The colours in particular are excellent, and bar the occasional strange HTC processing artifact, the detail level is very good, both in the centre and into the corners. For it's minute size, the lens actually impresses me. Where the lens falls down is shooting into the sun, a stiff test for most compacts, but you could still shade it with your hand.
I think HTC's software image processing (noise reduction etc) is actually good, they don't mess with the image as much as some mainstream camera manufacturers. You get more noise, but you get more detail left too, which I prefer. I've printed some of the pics from the TD2 onto A4, and they look superb, you couldn't tell them apart from a normal compact camera.
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
I suppose there might be a lot of sample variance in such a "cheap" camera though, so just because I was lucky with mine doesn't mean everyone will have got a good one.
Pete_S said:
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
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Indeed these horizontal interference lines is what ticks me.
I'll try your settings and see if the image quality improves.
... and unfortunately I don't think you can get rid of the interference, RAW or not. It's probably getting in via the power supply to the camera, or maybe being picked up directly, from the main processor or one of the radios. Turning the phone radio off whilst taking high ISO pics might help, I haven't tried it yet. It's the price for so much digital in such a small space. At least low ISO pics aren't affected.
I'm also really interested in raw capturing. Think on some pics we will be able to have higher quality...
Guys still can't leave this idea! I really impressed by diamond2 camera. And i think that even if we would be able to capture uncompressed data from camera, png formant for example, it would be super and would give us some space for enhancements...
for WM there are so much software, and now alternative camera soft?
Or maybe video for 30fps?
Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so
Well i know that some phones have its camera function as "main argument" but other functions usually suffer there. Here we have complex device, and its camera from my point of view make decent picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5020311/1/soso?h=7b9477
Just made +1 on contrast to have wider dynamic range, and +1 on sharpness cause internal sharp algorithm is crap, if i need i'll boost contrast and sharp in lightroom. And i have very good pictures, this phone easily replace my compact camera.
I'm considering the XZ, however there are very conflicting reviews of the camera. Some show really nasty photos, some show good photos. I'm assuming some of this has to do with SW versions and I know the XZ recently updated to 7.0.
I can't tell anything from a tethered store display unit.
Anyone have any comments regarding photo quality?
Manual mode is fine for me to shoot in. I almost always use manual mode on my cell phones and also my digital cameras.
Thanks in advance.
I find it pretty good, the manual shutter speed goes right down to 1/4000, manual focus ISO etc.
In MM I did realise the camera quality was worse than in 7.0 - so they did improve it.
Photos I have taken have great colours, and can usually be edited quite well in lightroom.
Big downside is the no RAW support (Yet, hopefully they release it)
nzzane said:
I find it pretty good, the manual shutter speed goes right down to 1/4000, manual focus ISO etc.
In MM I did realise the camera quality was worse than in 7.0 - so they did improve it.
Photos I have taken have great colours, and can usually be edited quite well in lightroom.
Big downside is the no RAW support (Yet, hopefully they release it)
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Thanks.
Colors have pretty much always been good in reports. The main thing that some of the "bad" reviews have mentioned is the artifacts especially in lower light. The better reviews and pictures that I've seen online don't really show a huge artifact problem and some of the youtube videos show what appears to be very good lowlight performance using manual mode.
I knew about the lack of raw support and I've used LR for a long time.
Fred98TJ said:
Thanks.
Colors have pretty much always been good in reports. The main thing that some of the "bad" reviews have mentioned is the artifacts especially in lower light. The better reviews and pictures that I've seen online don't really show a huge artifact problem and some of the youtube videos show what appears to be very good lowlight performance using manual mode.
I knew about the lack of raw support and I've used LR for a long time.
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Sony has always been a bit dodgy with low light, but I have found the XZ really improves on that (Compared to ther Z3, and Z5) Manual mode really helps with some of that though (same as a DSLR though)
Another thing to note, the device unlocks super quickly, and same with the camera, good for those un prepared shots
nzzane said:
Sony has always been a bit dodgy with low light, but I have found the XZ really improves on that (Compared to ther Z3, and Z5) Manual mode really helps with some of that though (same as a DSLR though)
Another thing to note, the device unlocks super quickly, and same with the camera, good for those un prepared shots
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Thanks again for the response.
I suppose that there isn't really any infor on their nrw 19mp camera used in thr XZs, nor have I found any pricing on it. At any rate it seems only a small upgrade from the XZ, with mostly the new camera and another 1 of ram
Pictures are generally very noisy and blurry when its not in extremely good light (inside with the sun shining through the windows with the lights on as well) Video however is very very good. I dont use manual mode since I don't know what to do, but as a point and shoot I can think of several phones that do better and probably cost less. If you want to buy it for the camera, just dont.
omarfarrah said:
Pictures are generally very noisy and blurry when its not in extremely good light (inside with the sun shining through the windows with the lights on as well) Video however is very very good. I dont use manual mode since I don't know what to do, but as a point and shoot I can think of several phones that do better and probably cost less. If you want to buy it for the camera, just dont.
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Noisy and blurry? Do you have a xz? In my xz i don't have those problems...
djgigi94 said:
Noisy and blurry? Do you have a xz? In my xz i don't have those problems...
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Thats strange, I hope I dont have a faulty hardware , however did you try to take indoor pictures and zoom in, you'll really notice the noise atleast, and if I'm not still as a building then it will also blur.
Sometimes the SW can overboard with the sharpening, I wish there was an option to disable it. Most phones probably have this issue too though.
I dont know if this can be counted as an issue but the lens on XZ has kind of a fish eye effect, So If you are taking a picture of an object and put it i the corners, it stretches and looks a bit... uh, unnatural? Because of this I try to make sure to center people as much as I can.
Some also say that taking pics in 8 mp mode introduces some artifacts because of the conversion algorithm (23mp to 8mp downsizing). So I use 23MP to avoid any unwanted processing.
I find the colors of the photos, taken with the XZ, to be very dull and way too cold to my liking, and XZ's Camera UI and Camera API have very limited manual controls set, unlike the rest of the flagships out there. I made a few photos with my old Xperia Pro and my new Xperia XZ for comparison, you can check them here - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0u28226fxm9z27d/AADrU08TmvfIUtSbprgharT-a?dl=0 . I was very unhappy with the XZ's camera so I sold it one week after I bought it.
EDIT: you check this thread for more information about the limitations, related to the manual controls of XZ's camera - https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz/help/enable-manual-controls-camera-t3580654
My experience, XZ pictures have a lot of noise (you can see that when you zoom in) when the light is not enough (and the phone is the one that decides what it means by enough )
I am coming from Galaxy s6 edge + to XZ Dual, and the S6 is the winner in my comparison.
If you want it for the camera, I wouldnt recommend you to go for the XZ.
---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------
check this for your reference
https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz/help/xperia-xz-dual-sim-camera-noise-t3582899
Fred98TJ said:
Thanks again for the response.
I suppose that there isn't really any infor on their nrw 19mp camera used in thr XZs, nor have I found any pricing on it. At any rate it seems only a small upgrade from the XZ, with mostly the new camera and another 1 of ram
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This review has sample photos in full res from XZS if you wanna know about picture quality. I own the XZ and i do see a difference in quality to the better in XZs compared to XZ..
https://www.lowyat.net/2017/128842/sony-xperia-xzs-review-one-trick-pony/
After I started using 4:3 full resolution instead od cropped 16:9 and disabled object tracking I very rarely see edge bluring and the photos in general are a lot better.
The "noise" people talk about in most cases is not really noise, it's a result of the image processing algorithm being too aggressive trying to eliminate noise even when there isn't any. First it sharpens the hell out of the photo to bring out as much detail as possible and then it tries to remove the resulting noise by applying heavy noise reduction. It's basically shooting itself in the foot. But, it really isn't as dramatic as some would say, you can't really see that effect until you zoom in really close. If Sony could find a middle ground, balance it out a bit, it would be perfect.
Sony's image processing has always been an issue for some unexplainable reason, they mastered sensors and image processing in photography a long time ago, but when it comes to phones it fails in software department, the sensor are the best on the market still.
It really is mind boggling, and they are aware of that, it's basically a software issue, it just needs some adjusting, why apply a noise reduction filter when there isn't any noise? HDR usually sucks as well. Then again, their DIS is top notch, the autofocus since the XZ is superb, the colors to me look great all around, low light photos are very good, specially in manual mode with adjustable shutter speed...there are great things about Sony's cameras, but usually things average user doesn't really see or cares about.
To be fair, the only time I see those artefacts is when I zoom in, not even when watching fullscreen on a PC, so I'm really pleased with the camera on Xperia since the Z3, but all things considered, Sony should have the best smartphone cameras in the world or at least be the top 3.
All that being said, shooting in manual mode is a different story, once you get a hang of it and learn how to use it, it can stand besides the best of them, easy. But that's not really a fair measurement, only auto modes, because that's what most people will use, and that's where Sony usually doesn't do that great.
The phone takes great photos, and I have yet to see a review that says it's a bad camera. It really isn't, it just isn't at the top few as it could be.
As for the XZs, currently it often produces lower quality photos than the XZ, depending on the scenario, it isn't a better camera, it's just different and has different strenghts in different scenarios. Plus, the slowmo gadget, if you care about that stuff. Other than that, there is no reason why it should be a better camera in average scenarios, maybe in low light because the pixels are bigger, but that's pretty much it.
If the quality of photos is your only concern about buying an XZ (or XZs, for that matter), you shouldn't be worried.
Hello,
So I received my all new HTC U11 3 days back ( in India) officially. HTC u11 has world's best rated camera but I am not quite satisfied with the results.
1.) Rear camera is really struggling to capture the photos in low light. I can clearly see the noise.
2.) Front facing camera has no OIS so pictures are blurry and most of the times I noisy photos.
Find the attachments below :
1.) Front facing camera
2 ) rear facing camera
See the noise and level of quality.
hm.. photo #1 has the plant completely out of focus. photo #2 has the pot in focus. you may wanna make sure that the subject is in focus before snapping.
did you change the camera settings to "Touch autoexposure"? The default mode of the camera is "Center-weighted"
Conan1986 said:
hm.. photo #1 has the plant completely out of focus. photo #2 has the pot in focus. you may wanna make sure that the subject is in focus before snapping.
did you change the camera settings to "Touch autoexposure"? The default mode of the camera is "Center-weighted"
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Thank you for replying. Let me make the things clear.
The first photo was taken from the selfie camera where I tried to focus on the plant/pot everywhere but it was not focusing anyhow. No matter what it wasn't focusing.
In low light, I can clearly see the noise in the all corners.
The selfie camera doesn't have auto focus everything is in focus ( as long as it is at least 18 inches away). Play around with the settings for the rear camera. HDR auto, HDR, so far all my photos are excellent focal point and background.
Conan1986 said:
hm.. photo #1 has the plant completely out of focus. photo #2 has the pot in focus. you may wanna make sure that the subject is in focus before snapping.
did you change the camera settings to "Touch autoexposure"? The default mode of the camera is "Center-weighted"
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schmeggy929 said:
The selfie camera doesn't have auto focus everything is in focus ( as long as it is at least 18 inches away). Play around with the settings for the rear camera. HDR auto, HDR, so far all my photos are excellent focal point and background.
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Well I have attached a sample selfie shot. Please check and tell me.
[email protected] said:
Well I have attached a sample selfie shot. Please check and tell me.
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Like I said you are too close using the selfie cam, it is meant too be an arm's long away to have everything in focus.
schmeggy929 said:
Like I said you are too close using the selfie cam, it is meant too be an arm's long away to have everything in focus.
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Sir I am not complaining about the focus and all... See the noise... Can't you see the noise in the picture?
Even zoom your spiderman... You will notice the same noise.
[email protected] said:
Sir I am not complaining about the focus and all... See the noise... Can't you see the noise in the picture?
Even zoom your spiderman... You will notice the same noise.[/Q
Adjust the iso manually
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Conan1986 said:
did you change the camera settings to "Touch autoexposure"? The default mode of the camera is "Center-weighted"
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Hi. Can you say more here or is there a link to how we can best make this adjustment? I'm not terribly savvy and appreciate the tips. Thx.
skypilotofhope said:
Hi. Can you say more here or is there a link to how we can best make this adjustment? I'm not terribly savvy and appreciate the tips. Thx.
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Well, in the camera app, pull down the slider with the = icon, swipe to the right to reveal "Settings" which is on the left, tap on that and "Touch autoexposure" should be the first option.
This option is important if you tend to compose your shots with the subject not in the middle (rule of thirds) so tapping on your subject will adjust the exposure and focus according to your subject.
My low light shots are all at over 3000 ISO which leaves quite a bit of visible noise in the picture.
Not liking the camera in poor lighting just yet. Hopefully they will introduce an ISO limiter, or simply fix this in an upcoming update.
I also have a lot of noise in low light photos (rear camera). Automode just isn´t usable if you want to have nice low light photos. The pictures look like that of phones some years ago. Light sources are also always blown out a lot. I also think that the OIS of the U11 isn´t the best out there. So far I don´t really think that this is the best smartphone camera and I was hoping for a better camera performance. HTC told a german magazine in May that they want to deliver an update for the camera. But I don´t know if they really deliver or if this update was the small update of June (?) of the camera app itself. I did this update and nothing changed.
Camera is phenomenal with stunning low light performance.
Check one of mine in auto
IMAG0247 by xristos zerzis, on Flickr
Guys, I've been into photography for over 40yrs. - shooting at ISO 3000 will give you noise onless you're using one of the latest Pro or Prosumer cameras w/advanced sensors- the Nikon D5 / D500 are full frame cropped frame verions ef virtually the same camera in terms of auto focus, pic rendition, & yes, superlative results w/astronomical ISO's - which both support. This is a phone, not a prosumer or petter camera. 3000 ISO is gonna give noise. There are a number of companies that make post processing software specifically to help w/Noise. That nite shot the other fellow took is good work.
The phone is great. The camera is quite good. Deal w/the technical realities & don't expect the cellphone camera to deal w/noise like a Pro DSLR.
foxy4270 said:
Camera is phenomenal with stunning low light performance.
Check one of mine in auto
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That's great, but the ISO fired at only 1262.
Whenever I take a shot in similar lighting, auto mode uses ISO 3152, which means there will be a lot of noise.
Perhaps there are different software versions going around, because my phone has very poor low light performance in auto mode due to it using a far higher ISO than it should.
oldwolf613 said:
The phone is great. The camera is quite good. Deal w/the technical realities & don't expect the cellphone camera to deal w/noise like a Pro DSLR.
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I'm not expecting such a small sensor to handle ISO well - I'm expecting that the camera won't default to a ridiculously high ISO like 3152 where my previous Samsung S6 was happily snapping along at ~1000 with stellar results.
Yes, everyone knows that this isn't a DSLR. But when they claim to have the best smartphone camera around I expect better results. I also don't know why they use a smaller sensor than before... This phone goes for 749 Euro and the low light results often look like from an old S5 or iPhone 4. The Automode just isn't usable in this scenarios. If they deliver an update they could solve the issues, I guess.
Turn on pro mode and drop ISO..
rom116 said:
Turn on pro mode and drop ISO..
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And here in the first sample you can see what I mean with this weak OIS...
Zico, as someone else said go Pro mode & get lower ISO, & even if this phone's camera sensor is smaller than prev ones, - compared to a Pro(sumer) DSLR, this fone's cam compared to prev one vs.
DSLR is like the choosing pinch hitters who bat .249 & .253- the smaller fone sensor is just a bit less than the prev *slightly* bigger one- then there is the density of pixels & dynamic range that make for a good camera - Y am I still talking abt this?
Pro mode and manually selecting ISO is not a solution to a poorly tuned auto mode - it is a workaround that is barely tolerable.
Hi guys I've just come back to the xzp from my note 8 (hate all the bezeless trend) and the pictures on the xzp are quite noisy especially in low light
I've heard that manual mode is the best but I'm a noob when it comes to manual setting in the camera app
What's a good starting point for the settings in manual mode to get me started with better pics in low light
I don't me night time pics just room lighting types lol
Thanks
Anyone have any recommendations :laugh:
It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8
admad said:
It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8
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Wow there some nice shots taken there :good:
I'm struggling to get decent pics just in my living room under normal lighting
admad said:
It's easy, lower ISO better quality (but less light). You can compensate the low light by decreasing shutter speed, but then, you have to have a really steady hands, or tripod.
So, in short, to get the best quality, use ISO50 and shutter speed 1s. However, without a tripod, it's really hard to get sharp photo. Sometimes when handheld, you can try shutter speed 1/8s with higher ISO (200 or 400) you will see what is necessary by the brightness in viewfinder.
You can see some of my low light pics here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72886521&postcount=8
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The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean
brockyneo said:
The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean
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I think that's just a consequence of Sony's extreme post-processing, along with the the lack of OIS and the longer shutter speeds. When zooming in you'd notice that most detail is wiped out by the post processing even in good lighting conditions. As far as I know this can't be fixed since Sony doesn't give raw files and third party cameras are worse.
If you're using 1s shutter time then it's easy to get a bit of blur from the phone moving if you're holding it by hand but it should definitely has less noise than auto.. Resting it against a surface also helps. I found it better to use the on screen shutter button rather than the physical shutter button to reduce shaking, especially if you're using a case.
But in regards to high noise in room lighting, I find that a bit odd as the pictures I took were pretty clean, at least compared to similar cameras like the OnePlus 3. Maybe you're just noticing it because you came from the Note8, which possibly has the best camera?
brockyneo said:
The biggest problem I have is all my pics seem blurred like my lens is smudged even though its clean
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It's because of hand shake when taking picture. Bidiminished said one more important thing I forgot, set a self-timer for 3 sec, because it's very easy to introduce slight movement with button press or even on screen touch.
Also, having a mobile tripod is a huge help if you can use it at the moment of taking picture.
Some example, cheap tripod with lenses(lenses are not that useful, but the tripod in this set is good ) for 3,5$ with free shipping.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5in...a9dfc3f&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0
Hi guys thanks I'll take another look today apart from the camera I'm loving the phone over the note 8 I'd of thought with Sony been the main provider of lenses and Sony are using there latest just thought it would be better lol
Thanks
So as seen on dxomark , the Huawei P20 pro is now the king of phone cameras, and one key thing is that it has a second monochrome camera just like the essential. Perhaps they figured out how better to "utilize" the monochrome camera much better than the devs at Essential?
i love my essential and i think is hope that it can be even better!
geminihc said:
So as seen on dxomark , the Huawei P20 pro is now the king of phone cameras, and one key thing is that it has a second monochrome camera just like the essential. Perhaps they figured out how better to "utilize" the monochrome camera much better than the devs at Essential?
i love my essential and i think is hope that it can be even better!
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There are a lot of ways to use the monochrome camera.
You can possibly use the image for increased dynamic range or contrast.
I use the Google Camera port for most shots, and use the OEM camera for B/W shots, which it does very well.
Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
How do they do it? Better hardware that's how
I don't think the way Huawei incorporates both cameras is better hardware, it's much better software. Huawei uses what they have better.
Murbert said:
I don't think the way Huawei incorporates both cameras is better hardware, it's much better software. Huawei uses what they have better.
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The hardware itself, i.e. the cameras, are better quality. We can argue this all day, but you can only polish a turd so much (fix poor quality hardware with software)
The P20 Pro takes amazing pictures because Huawei put an amazing primary sensor (and lenses) in the phone along with good image processing.
GCam demonstrates the limit of image processing (taking low-light images being more detailed than the monochrome camera on the stock app) but without better camera hardware that's as far as this phone can go.
What better hardware? The P20 can get about 50% more light per pixel which is half a stop which amounts to nothing in the photography world. DSLR sensors gather 10 times or more light than phone cams and yet DSRLs are dying.
In the smartphone camera world, software is everything. Remember that the LG G6 has the same sensors as the PH-1 and yet its DXO scores for texture and noise are way higher than both the P20 and the Pixel 2. And that's the scores for just a single sensor. The Xiaomi 5s also has the same sensor pair in the same arrangement as the PH-1 and the combined output trounces any single sensor in the smartphone world.
Essential is really behind in their software department, notwithstanding their commitment in software support. Despite of the fact the camera designer was the one behind the iPhone's portrait mode, their software still can't live up to hardware potential. The current stock cam app, even with combined sensor output, can't come close to some GCam mods which use just a single sensor.
---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------
The P20 Pro, on the other hand, got the good low light quality only in 10MP mode which pixel-bins the 40MP down to 10MP. Its texture and noise scores are still no better the than the G6. At 40MP its low light quality is worse than crap.
Yeah no.
You can't go using "it's nothing compared to DSLR's" when the difference is 50% more light per pixel. DSLR's are not dying because of quality but because it's convenient to have a good enough camera in your phone.
Obviously software is the key for modern cellphone imagery, that isn't even the point here. We already know what better processing does for the Essential sensor in the GCam mod. Which also works on the G6 incidentally and yields generally better results than LG's own app. But on the whole it's not nearly as good as the Pixel 2 for instance. Don't give me "but DXO said" because even G6 users don't believe they do better.
ChronoReverse said:
Yeah no.
You can't go using "it's nothing compared to DSLR's" when the difference is 50% more light per pixel. DSLR's are not dying because of quality but because it's convenient to have a good enough camera in your phone.
Obviously software is the key for modern cellphone imagery, that isn't even the point here. We already know what better processing does for the Essential sensor in the GCam mod. Which also works on the G6 incidentally and yields generally better results than LG's own app. But on the whole it's not nearly as good as the Pixel 2 for instance. Don't give me "but DXO said" because even G6 users don't believe they do better.
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I didn't say "it's nothing compared to DSLR's" . If you don't understand, I'll say it again: 50% more light is half a stop which is nothing in the photography world. Do you even know what 50% more light means?
DSLRs have better hardware, but are dying not because of lack of convenience, but because quality from smartphone are good enough these days. Convenience was always there from the beginning of the smartphone age, but quality has only gotten good enough a few years recently. DSLRs always have the hardware advantage, but smartphone have the software and that's what make the difference.
And G6 users can't do better than Pixel 2 like DXO because they don't know what to do to get as good as DXO, at least in terms of texture and noise. "On the whole" is another matter since it's the whole package, which means Google software is much better than LG software. Well, it's the software that makes the difference. That's the point I'm making. It's not the camera hardware, it's the software. Differences in smartphone camera hardware are peanuts.
He also neglects to mention OIS on the g6.
Also, the Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus has the exact same design, with the same two Sony IMX258 sensors, one RGB and one Monochrome, no OIS, and it has the exact same problems with low light, even in daylight, and shutter lag. That phone was released a year ago. So Xiaomi proved this idea is a failure.
crixley said:
He also neglects to mention OIS on the g6.
Also, the Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus has the exact same design, with the same two Sony IMX258 sensors, one RGB and one Monochrome, no OIS, and it has the exact same problems with low light, even in daylight, and shutter lag. That phone was released a year ago. So Xiaomi proved this idea is a failure.
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Since you mentioned OIS, what does OIS do to make the sensor output better, specifically texture and noise quality? If you don't know, it does exactly jack squat nothing to the sensor. It helps with the whole package, but that doesn't make people like it more than the Pixel 2.
And the Xiaomi 5s is not a failure, at least in terms of camera quality. The least you could do when trying to argue against it is to look up review results for yourself. Look at the comparison tool at GSMarena for the 5s in stereo mode compared to any other phone cam, instead of talking about something you know nothing about. People make the results and tools available and you don't even bother to look at. Sad!
Why people make unsubstantiated claims about something they don't understand or even try to learn about? Opinions can always be different, but at least have some informed opinion.
tnthd2 said:
Since you mentioned OIS, what does OIS do to make the sensor output better, specifically texture and noise quality? If you don't know, it does exactly jack squat nothing to the sensor. It helps with the whole package, but that doesn't make people like it more than the Pixel 2.
And the Xiaomi 5s is not a failure, at least in terms of camera quality. The least you could do when trying to argue against it is to look up review results for yourself. Look at the comparison tool at GSMarena for the 5s in stereo mode compared to any other phone cam, instead of talking about something you know nothing about. People make the results and tools available and you don't even bother to look at. Sad!
Why people make unsubstantiated claims about something they don't understand or even try to learn about? Opinions can always be different, but at least have some informed opinion.
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Lol you're one to talk. You don't think OIS effects low light photos? Interesting. You should do some reading. Noise levels in low light are highly related to OIS.
It is ranked about the same as essential phone by most reviewers.
If you're going to call me out, at least be right
crixley said:
Lol you're one to talk. You don't think OIS effects low light photos? Interesting. You should do some reading. Noise levels in low light are highly related to OIS.
It is ranked about the same as essential phone by most reviewers.
If you're going to call me out, at least be right
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Absolutely not. OIS reduces vibration from your hands to help getting sharper images. Same exposure parameters with or without OIS give exactly the same noise level. It does nothing to help noise from sensor. If you think it does, explain or cite how it does.
The effectiveness of OIS on smartphones is dubious at best due to the very short focal length on most phones. If it's really effective, those gimbals wouldn't be in high demand or that expensive. But this is another matter unrelated to the photo quality of sensor output.
tnthd2 said:
Absolutely not. OIS reduces vibration from your hands to help getting sharper images. Same exposure parameters with or without OIS give exactly the same noise level. It does nothing to help noise from sensor. If you think it does, explain or cite how it does.
The effectiveness of OIS on smartphones is dubious at best due to the very short focal length on most phones. If it's really effective, those gimbals wouldn't be in high demand or that expensive. But this is another matter unrelated to the photo quality of sensor output.
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"If your camera meters the need for a slow shutter speed which will cause camera shake, there are two ways to switch to a faster shutter speed:
1. Open up the aperture. Opening up the aperture (makes the hole bigger and therefore) allows more light to come in and so reduces the time the shutter needs to stay open. ["Shutter speed" is simply the time the camera keeps the shutter open.]
2. Often, especially in low-light situations, this will not even give you a fast enough shutter speed to hand hold the camera, so the second way is to use a higher ISO."
"At this slow shutter speed and without using a tripod, we will obtain a blurred image if we hand hold the camera. But, with Image Stabilization, we are now able to hand hold the camera without worrying about camera shake (1/15 sec. is 2 stops slower than 1/60 sec.).
If the light level falls further and the camera now needs an even slower shutter speed, say of 1/4 sec. (that's 4 stops slower than 1/60 sec.: 1/60 sec., 1/30 sec., 1/15 sec., 1/8 sec., 1/4 sec.), Image Stabilization will not help us eliminate camera shake in this case. It will, however, reduce its effect.
Note that IS works irrespective of the ISO used. Whereas High ISO forces you to use a high ISO (with resulting high noise and image degradation issues *1), IS allows you to keep at a low ISO while still reducing camera shake (thus keeping maximum image quality). That is, it does not mess with your selected exposure settings (you keep the shutter speed, aperture and ISO you want to use)"
crixley said:
"If your camera meters the need for a slow shutter speed which will cause camera shake, there are two ways to switch to a faster shutter speed:
1. Open up the aperture. Opening up the aperture (makes the hole bigger and therefore) allows more light to come in and so reduces the time the shutter needs to stay open. ["Shutter speed" is simply the time the camera keeps the shutter open.]
2. Often, especially in low-light situations, this will not even give you a fast enough shutter speed to hand hold the camera, so the second way is to use a higher ISO."
"At this slow shutter speed and without using a tripod, we will obtain a blurred image if we hand hold the camera. But, with Image Stabilization, we are now able to hand hold the camera without worrying about camera shake (1/15 sec. is 2 stops slower than 1/60 sec.).
If the light level falls further and the camera now needs an even slower shutter speed, say of 1/4 sec. (that's 4 stops slower than 1/60 sec.: 1/60 sec., 1/30 sec., 1/15 sec., 1/8 sec., 1/4 sec.), Image Stabilization will not help us eliminate camera shake in this case. It will, however, reduce its effect.
Note that IS works irrespective of the ISO used. Whereas High ISO forces you to use a high ISO (with resulting high noise and image degradation issues *1), IS allows you to keep at a low ISO while still reducing camera shake (thus keeping maximum image quality). That is, it does not mess with your selected exposure settings (you keep the shutter speed, aperture and ISO you want to use)"
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Hmm, that's a lot of quote, but not sure how much you understand or believe in all that. How do you adjust any of those settings with any (except one) cam app?
Whatever exposure setting you take a picture at with OIS on, I can take another picture at the same setting with OIS off. The noise level will be exactly the same. There might be a difference in sharpness, but how much difference will depend on how firm I can hold the camera or if I use an external stabilization device or not.
Like I've said, it helps with the whole package, but it doesn't explain how the G6 get higher noise score than the Pixel 2 which also has OIS. It's all in the software.
tnthd2 said:
Hmm, that's a lot of quote, but not sure how much you understand or believe in all that. How do you adjust any of those settings with any (except one) cam app?
Whatever exposure setting you take a picture at with OIS on, I can take another picture at the same setting with OIS off. The noise level will be exactly the same. There might be a difference in sharpness, but how much difference will depend on how firm I can hold the camera or if I use an external stabilization device or not.
Like I've said, it helps with the whole package, but it doesn't explain how the G6 get higher noise score than the Pixel 2 which also has OIS. It's all in the software.
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What that user was trying to convey is OIS let's you use a slower shutter with less motion blur due to camera shake. Slower shutter equals lower ISO, which likely results in less noise. This doesn't help for moving subjects though.
gk1984 said:
What that user was trying to convey is OIS let's you use a slower shutter with less motion blur due to camera shake. Slower shutter equals lower ISO, which likely results in less noise. This doesn't help for moving subjects though.
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That's the theory. Slower shutter speed *requires* lower ISO for the same lighting level, since the aperture is fixed. But in practice, I wouldn't give it up like that, but rather try to brace myself to reduce vibration or just use a stabilization device/tripod so I can shoot at the same exposure setting and get the same acceptable noise level.
tnthd2 said:
That's the theory. Slower shutter speed *requires* lower ISO for the same lighting level, since the aperture is fixed. But in practice, I wouldn't give it up like that, but rather try to brace myself to reduce vibration or just use a stabilization device/tripod so I can shoot at the same exposure setting and get the same acceptable noise level.
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I think you have it backwards.
A slow shutter allows you to use a low ISO.
A fast shutter requires a high ISO.
This assumes shutter an not aperture priority.
Also 1/focal length is the minimum shutter speed to not have noticeable shake at correct lighting.
I feel like this has gone a tad off topic. Not to say its completely irrelevant but I feel the starting point is, us comparing both the Ph1's and the P20 implementation to know whats different.