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Captivate and 4G

Was reading in another thread (which was closed while I was writing a reply) that some people here might be confused around what 4G is and whether or not their Cappy can be upgraded to it.
First, the simple answer:
Your Cappy cannot be upgraded to 4G. Now or ever. It is possible that it could be upgraded to HSPA+ with the right software. But that is not 4G. 4G is a different radio access protocol running at different frequencies.
The longer answer:
The source of all this confusion is T-Mobile's marketing department who claim their HSPA+ network is 4G. 4G is not HSPA+ or anything like it. It is 3.5G. Much like GPRS and EDGE were 2.5G. LTE (the real 4G) is far superior to HSPA+ for several reasons regardless of the bandwidth claims. Mainly 4G will not suffer nearly as much from congestion like 3G HSPA / HSPA+. It is that same 3G congestion that motivated AT&T to turn off HSUPA on our phones. It's because AT&T's 3G network (UMTS, HSPA, and HSPA+) is already heavily congested in many markets.
Only posting this so people don't think they can get true 4G on their Cappy. It won't happen.

AT&T is also marketing their 4G service as HSPA+, with LTE technology entering their network late 2011.

bptba93 said:
AT&T is also marketing their 4G service as HSPA+, with LTE technology entering their network late 2011.
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Yes, they've started down that path as well. Just don't expect 4G speeds on any of these "4G" devices unless you're the only smartphone user for miles. I truly wonder what AT&T and eventually T-Mobile will call their LTE networks. 4G 2.0?

From AT&T:
Not all 4G networks are created equal. AT&T is the only carrier that will offer two layers of network technology delivering 4G speeds – HSPA+ and LTE.*
Why does that matter?
When combined with enhanced backhaul, our HSPA+ software upgrade is expected to deliver speeds up to 4x faster than ordinary mobile broadband. And we'll be evolving to even higher speeds with the planned initial launch of our LTE network in mid-2011. When you're traveling on our networks, you'll enjoy faster speeds and a smoother, more consistent mobile broadband experience overall.
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So is HSPA+ just a software upgrade with no hardware enhancements in the cellphones or towers?
I do understand the reasoning behind AT&T doing HSPA+ before LTE as it offers reasonably fast speeds in areas where LTE has not matured. If it is indeed only software based, I wouldn't mind seeing an increase from HSPA 7.2Mbps to pseudo "4G" HSPA+ 21Mbps (although these speeds are "up to") on the captivate. Will HSPA+ be up to 21Mbps right out of the gate?
My brother uses epic 4G on Sprint, and in areas of no 4G wimax, his 3G speeds are abysmal... Has sprint stopped upgrading their 3G and is only concentrating on the expansion of 4G?
According to that, AT&T's HSPA+ will end up faster than Sprint's 4G (3-6Mbps on average and up to 10Mbps) unless they pick up the pace.
For LTE (5-12Mbps) according to Verizon.
So is 4G labeling the technology once fully matured (Up to 100Mbps for both LTE and Wimax) or current speed being delivered? Because Sprint and Verizon do advertise their current technologies as being "4G speeds" which AT&T can defeat if their HSPA+ (56Mbps matured) is 21Mbps out of the gate.
The way I see it is that 4G speeds have never existed and should never have been advertised (started by Sprint), but the technology to get there is currently in the building phase.
First post, so I can't back up the speed claims with links directly to Sprint and Verizon 4G speed pages lol
And please correct me if I'm wrong on anything... I'm here to learn.

4G isn't that far away I think AT&T is playing it safe with the 4G in the future thing. I have a couple friends that install att towers and phone lines they have been crazy busy establishing the 4G network in the major cities in know for a fact that most of Dallas and Ft. Worth will be 4G ready this spring as for outlying areas that will take some time. But if you live in a big city area expect your LTE right off the bat
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

LTE is not 4G it still falls under the 3G umbrella along with WIMAX. 4G technologies can do 100M down.

Hydro360 said:
4G isn't that far away I think AT&T is playing it safe with the 4G in the future thing. I have a couple friends that install att towers and phone lines they have been crazy busy establishing the 4G network in the major cities in know for a fact that most of Dallas and Ft. Worth will be 4G ready this spring as for outlying areas that will take some time. But if you live in a big city area expect your LTE right off the bat
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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It better be here, it's their home

Does anybody else remember this?
http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com...works-provides-teliasonera-with-advanced-radi
Just thought this could help a bit.

I just need to clarify one more point in addition to OP's post:
Even though HSPA+ is merely a software upgrade in the carrier side (towers), so far it is not the case with phones. So far there is no phone out there that can be software upgraded to take advantage of HSPA+'s higher speed. T-Mo has to release Galaxy S 4G phone to get 4G support. HSPA+ towers offer backward compatibility with current 3G phones but it doesn't mean you will get higher speed by default (much like 11n routers supports 11G and 11B clients but only 11n client can reach the max bandwidth).
And no, HSDPA + HSUPA does not equal to HSPA+.

groves226 said:
LTE is not 4G it still falls under the 3G umbrella along with WIMAX. 4G technologies can do 100M down.
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Only according to a few people within the ITU. 4G is LTE (and for a few sorry sorry suckers, it is WiMAX). Or at least that is how everyone in the industry sees it (outside of T-Mobile USA and now AT&T and a bunch of confused customers).
As far as speeds are concerned, we should treat Mbps throughput ratings with a grain of salt. Those are ideal world, no contention data rates which when taken out of the lab are purely theoretical. HSPA+ is an upgrade. LTE is a whole new set of radio access, backhaul and core technologies.

My friend has a "4G" LTE phone from Verizon and he got 4 or 5 mbps while I got over 5 on HSPA.

[Q] ATT long term network question

Hey folks. I'm currently a Sprint customer thinking of switching to ATT after my upcoming deployment. I've browsed through 7 pages of this forum and seen some threads that dance around the questions I have, but none that conclusively answer them. I know right now ATT has HSPA+ as their "4g" tech, but from the looks of it they will be rolling out LTE in q4 of this year. I've seen conflicting posts throughout various threads about whether or not the Inspire has the hardware necessary to connect to LTE when it comes online. Can anyone give me a definitive yes/no? Also, does anyone know if ATT will be making their entire network HSPA+ compliant (regardless of LTE rollout)? Does anyone have a hard date on the LTE rollout (and phone options for it)?

No the Inspire does not have an LTE radio. As far as which phones will, they have not been announced yet.
jdelforge5684 said:
Hey folks. I'm currently a Sprint customer thinking of switching to ATT after my upcoming deployment. I've browsed through 7 pages of this forum and seen some threads that dance around the questions I have, but none that conclusively answer them. I know right now ATT has HSPA+ as their "4g" tech, but from the looks of it they will be rolling out LTE in q4 of this year. I've seen conflicting posts throughout various threads about whether or not the Inspire has the hardware necessary to connect to LTE when it comes online. Can anyone give me a definitive yes/no? Also, does anyone know if ATT will be making their entire network HSPA+ compliant (regardless of LTE rollout)? Does anyone have a hard date on the LTE rollout (and phone options for it)?
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Sent from Inspire 4G using Morse code.

No the inspire does not support LTE, no current Att phone does.
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App

As others have said, there are no LTE capable phones on AT&T's network at the moment. The first we'll probably see is the iPhone 5 (with future update), or iPhone 6, which is rumored to be available in the 2nd quarter of 2012.
At the moment, AT&T is banking real hard on the T-Mo deal going through so they have access to T-Mo's LTE spectrum, and that deal won't go through until early next year... If the FCC doesn't shut it down, that is.
No need to put out expensive LTE capable phones when you won't have a network to have them operate on till LATE this year, early next.

droe411 said:
No the Inspire does not have an LTE radio. As far as which phones will, they have not been announced yet.
Sent from Inspire 4G using Morse code.
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Would I be correct to assume that a simple Radio update could enable this and many other phones to be capable of LTE?

tribalartgod said:
Would I be correct to assume that a simple Radio update could enable this and many other phones to be capable of LTE?
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LTE will operate on a different frequency so it will not work afaik.

newter55 said:
LTE will operate on a different frequency so it will not work afaik.
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This.
LTE devices will work with a completely different technology, so for the same reason you can't just flash a Verizon (CDMA) phone to work on ATT (HSPA+), you can't flash an HSPA+ phone to work with LTE.

3G 4G Versions?

Could someone please tell me if there are two different versions of HTC Sensation. Are there 3G and a 4G versions available? The one I have ordered does not even mention anything about 4G. Thanks

krico said:
Could someone please tell me if there are two different versions of HTC Sensation. Are there 3G and a 4G versions available? The one I have ordered does not even mention anything about 4G. Thanks
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they're all the same phone. It's not really 4G, just the US mobile providers using the term to try to 1-up their competition. Therefore only the tmous version will be Sensation 4G.
All the phones should be capable of 14Mbps HSPA+ tho.

Xnifex is right, 4G is the rage here in the states so everyone is trying to talk it up to entice buyers. HSPA+ is all we have on T-Mobile and the other 4G networks are small so eh.
I believe that I read somewhere that the Euro version IS capable of the same theoretical network speeds, it is just not advertised as 4G.

10332007 said:
I believe that I read somewhere that the Euro version IS capable of the same theoretical network speeds, it is just not advertised as 4G.
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I just studied the specifications and, yes: Both versions are capable of the same speeds. 4G is just a marketing term T-Mobile (and other carriers) like to use.
In Europe (at least where I live), carriers don't usually advertise as being "4G" capable, even if they have started running LTE networks. I've seen advertisements for "HSPA+ speeds", LTE directly as well as "Air to Fiber" to highlight the carriers backend.
I don't think there are GSM/UMTS/LTE smartphones on the market right now, it is still a "future technology" for some time to come.

10332007 said:
Xnifex is right, 4G is the rage here in the states so everyone is trying to talk it up to entice buyers. HSPA+ is all we have on T-Mobile and the other 4G networks are small so eh.
I believe that I read somewhere that the Euro version IS capable of the same theoretical network speeds, it is just not advertised as 4G.
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Correct yet again
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA Premium App

its all 3.5g
get a n8 and you'll see it pull down the same speeds as any of tmobs "4g" phone

This is also the reason I want to change my notification icons from having the 4G to saying H+

[Q] AT&T Turns off 3G Stunt

So there is millions of AT&T crap network without 3G service across the US. Does anyone feel like I do in the sense that AT&T is doing this as a stunt to the government to show how crappy their network is and why they need to dismantle the beautiful creation TMO created with HSPA+. Its sad the AT&T has to stoop so low to get what they want.

No because each run off of different 3g technologies ...plus at&t is going lte for their 4g
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

laker666 said:
No because each run off of different 3g technologies ...plus at&t is going lte for their 4g
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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i disagree both AT&T are both GSM the only difference is the frequency they operate on. AT&T will dismantle TMO HSPA+ for their "LTE" rollout. of course raise prices.

AT&T didn't storm Deutsche Telekom's offices with guns to get them to agree to sell T-Mobile U.S. Deutsche Telekom is in a world of financial hurt and needs the $39B to reinvest in what's left once T-Mobile's gone. In fact, they're giving back 1/3 of the $39B to shareholders after closing to compensate for their ****ty financial performance.
T-Mobile U.S. has the lowest yield per pre-paid customer of all four carriers, the highest attrition rate, the highest bad debt write-off, and the lowest margins. That all adds up to less money to invest in new products and services in a highly competitive environment. None of this is sustainable for a public company that answers to shareholders. So if it wasn't AT&T, it would be Sprint or private equity (which means slash and burn). Fat, dumb, and happy wasn't ever really an option.

Let your voice be heard. Go to the FCC website, and post your comment about the merger. fjallfoss dot fcc dot gov/ecfs/hotdocket/list proceeding number 11-65.

@flack0, they have different radios, hence the reason a T-Mobile phone will not run at&TS 3g and an at&t phone won't run tmobiles 3g
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

I don't know where you get your facts, but DT is NOT in a world of financial hurt.
They are, however, looking to offload debt that they can't justify.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Unless you have a G2x with unlocked AT&T frequencies or the other high end phones that Tmobile is coming out with that supports both Tmobile and AT&T 3G frequencies.
Tmobile is pretty confident that the merger is going to go through and is releasing some of their high end phones with dual support

Those rumors about the g2x having both at&t and T-Mobile 3g/4g bands have been long proven to be false...same with the sensation ....to my knowledge there isn't a phone out as of yet that supports both. Please correct me if I'm wrong ...and if you unlock this phone to at&t it will work, but only on edge and wifi
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

laker666 said:
Those rumors about the g2x having both at&t and T-Mobile 3g/4g bands have been long proven to be false...same with the sensation ....to my knowledge there isn't a phone out as of yet that supports both. Please correct me if I'm wrong ...and if you unlock this phone to at&t it will work, but only on edge and wifi
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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It has the hardware but not the software, YET.
FYI, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1139849

flak0 said:
So there is millions of AT&T crap network without 3G service across the US. Does anyone feel like I do in the sense that AT&T is doing this as a stunt to the government to show how crappy their network is and why they need to dismantle the beautiful creation TMO created with HSPA+. Its sad the AT&T has to stoop so low to get what they want.
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ATT gave half a billion dollars to democrat lawmakers to ensure the deal will go through. It's a done deal. Tmobile is history. All hail new higher prices and crappy service.
I plan on re-signing a new two year agreement at my grandfathered pricing as late as possible to push back the inevitable price hikes.
Edit. The dems recived $500,000 in contributions from ATT. Sorry for the typo.

sstang2006 said:
It has the hardware but not the software, YET.
FYI, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1139849
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??? Not that I doubt you, but do you have any solid proof that it will work on ATT 3g? Conformation from ATT, Tmo or LG? Have any of the companies involved guaranteed it will work? All that thread says it should support it. I find the claims that it is locked down and hidden but will magically work later dubious at best.

jcbofkc said:
ATT gave half a billion dollars to democrat lawmakers to ensure the deal will go through. It's a done deal. Tmobile is history. All hail new higher prices and crappy service.
I plan on re-signing a new two year agreement at my grandfathered pricing as late as possible to push back the inevitable price hikes.
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I would not say the price hacks are innevitable. When verizon bought out alltell they didnt jack up the price on their current plans. In fact they pretty much stayed the same, just owned by verizon.

@sstang2006, yeah that's not proof that's just the same guy posting the same thing in a different thread...it isn't possible for this phone to run on at&t's 3g/4g networks
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

laker666 said:
Those rumors about the g2x having both at&t and T-Mobile 3g/4g bands have been long proven to be false...same with the sensation ....to my knowledge there isn't a phone out as of yet that supports both. Please correct me if I'm wrong ...and if you unlock this phone to at&t it will work, but only on edge and wifi
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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There are several phones out right now that support 3g on att and tmobile nokia makes atleast 6 phones that are pentaband wcdma 5 bands and the tmobile vibrant will do 3g on att Band I (UMTS 2100, Europe's main 3G band)
Band II (UMTS 1900, US band)
Band IV (UMTS 1700/2100, US band)
Band V (UMTS 850, US band)
Band VIII (UMTS 900, Europe and used e.g. in France and Finland in rural areas)

Well you saying it ISN'T possible isn't warranted either.
The hardware specs specifically say it supports those bands. Tmobile also said it supported those bands. LG said it supported those bands. It passed the FCC with those bands.
Tmobile stated that several of their high end phones will support the AT&T 3G bands and will be unlocked to do so once the merger goes through.
The G2x was the first to support them. The Sensation doesn't. I think the Hercules will as well (although be still be locked until the merger).
Now really, no one REALLY knows one way or another... but looking at the evidence (which are referenced all over the place) it would be best to say that one day we COULD have support for AT&T 3G (unlike the Sensation which doesn't have the hardware).
We do have the hardware but it is locked down. Being it is such a new phone and we don't have any other baselands available, we can't simply flash and be successful. Perhaps the Canadian version will have them all unlocked and we can use theirs.
But to say it isn't possible is not proven just as much as saying it is possible. I would say it IS possible but not right now (AKA it doesn't work out of the box).

i hope you're right sir....that is if the merger happens

player911 said:
Well you saying it ISN'T possible isn't warranted either.
The hardware specs specifically say it supports those bands. Tmobile also said it supported those bands. LG said it supported those bands. It passed the FCC with those bands.
Tmobile stated that several of their high end phones will support the AT&T 3G bands and will be unlocked to do so once the merger goes through.
The G2x was the first to support them. The Sensation doesn't. I think the Hercules will as well (although be still be locked until the merger).
Now really, no one REALLY knows one way or another... but looking at the evidence (which are referenced all over the place) it would be best to say that one day we COULD have support for AT&T 3G (unlike the Sensation which doesn't have the hardware).
We do have the hardware but it is locked down. Being it is such a new phone and we don't have any other baselands available, we can't simply flash and be successful. Perhaps the Canadian version will have them all unlocked and we can use theirs.
But to say it isn't possible is not proven just as much as saying it is possible. I would say it IS possible but not right now (AKA it doesn't work out of the box).
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I would love for this to be a possibility but where do you find that the phone has the hardware? Everything I can find via Google searches says it does not.

phburks said:
I would love for this to be a possibility but where do you find that the phone has the hardware? Everything I can find via Google searches says it does not.
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The hardware specs are all over the place. It was only AFTER the phone was released that Tmobile said the phone didn't support it and it was restricted by "hardware".
pfft.
The G2x is based off the O2x. Sure slightly different but I would almost bet they used the same "quadband EDGE, and quadband HSPA+ (with future-proof support for 2100, 1900, 1700 / AWS, and 850MHz)" chip.
I bet the G2x and the O2x use the same chip. Tmobile probably just ordered it to be locked down (lack of drivers or something).
It would require a tear down of both the G2x and O2x to be certain.

player911 said:
The hardware specs are all over the place. It was only AFTER the phone was released that Tmobile said the phone didn't support it and it was restricted by "hardware".
pfft.
The G2x is based off the O2x. Sure slightly different but I would almost bet they used the same "quadband EDGE, and quadband HSPA+ (with future-proof support for 2100, 1900, 1700 / AWS, and 850MHz)" chip.
I bet the G2x and the O2x use the same chip. Tmobile probably just ordered it to be locked down (lack of drivers or something).
It would require a tear down of both the G2x and O2x to be certain.
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"all over the place" ... "I bet" ... and "probably" don't really prove anything. You're just speculating, and so far it's based only on your opinion because you haven't provided any sort of links or references to prove your point. The only things I can find regarding the G2X having quad band HSPA+ are when T-Mobile admitted that they were wrong in saying it supported those bands in the first place. On LG's own website they list the G2X as supporting only 2 HSPA+ frequencies (1700/2100). Also on LG's website, they list the O2x as supporting 3 HSPA+ frequencies (900/1900/2100).
It would be awesome if T-Mobile had been correct, but there is nothing I can find that suggests they were. I'm just asking that you pull one or two links from your "all over the place" evidence so that I can have the same faith that you do. I'm not finding it, so I'm asking you to show me. That's all.
Here are the links to LG's product listings for the O2x and the G2X, and the specifications can be viewed by clicking on the specifications tab for each product:
G2X here: http://www.lg.com/us/mobile-phones/LG-P999.jsp
O2x here: http://www.lg.com/uk/mobile-phones/all-lg-phones/LG-android-mobile-phone-P990.jsp
**EDIT** -- Let me just add that I sincerely hope you prove me wrong, because that would be some awesome news about this phone.

Confused??!?!

Hi im waiting for my sensation toarrive....My confusion comes from References to Sensation 4g...In the uk we dont get 4g so mine will not be the 4g,But tools like Temp root all refer to the 4g and dont mention the 3g?
I dont want to brick my shiny phone when it arrives so is anyone able to ellaborate any diffs between the 4g and the uk version? Is the 4g GSM or CDMA? Is the 4g on tmobile??
Sorry if this has been asked i dont want to seem like an arse

The guides work for both, just that most users on here seem to be American. The European model isn't 4G

It is basically just a naming difference, american carriers like to advertise as being "4G" even when they are only operating 3G networks, and the phone is only 3G capable (like T-Mobile US - they call HSPA+ "4G", which is a technology most modern networks have implemented at this time and is most definitively "3G").
I don't think there is any GSM/UMTS/LTE-capable phone from a major manufacturer available in the market (or even announced) at this point. There are, however, some USB datasticks that are LTE ("4G") capable.
And while the UK may lag a bit behind in LTE coverage compared to some countries of continental europe (although it really doesn't matter all that much at this point), LTE trials are being conducted in the UK at this time.
The Sensation and Sensation 4G are both capable of exactly the same speeds & standards.
Don't be fooled by all the "4G"-marketing, it is exceptionally meaningless.

There are a couple here in the US. Verizon and MetroPCS both have LTE.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

Both are CDMA/LTE-carriers, not really comparable.
AT&T has started building a LTE-network as well, but their phones advertised as "4G" are still regular GSM/UMTS-phones (typically HSPA+ capable).
Which further reinforces my point, "4G" has become a meaningless marketing-term slapped on anything to suggest extraordinary speed to the uninformed.

Thanks guys,Great help as usual! Confusing though when US call it 4G and UK call is HSDPA or 3G+

bonesy said:
Thanks guys,Great help as usual! Confusing though when US call it 4G and UK call is HSDPA or 3G+
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Just wondering.. Since UK considers the 10mbs+ some people get as 3g still, what speeds are considered 4G there? Not trying to flame, just curious.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

It's not about speed, but technology - only LTE is considered "true" 4G over here, while HSPA is still very clearly a 3G technology.
Where I live, providers advertise with HSPA+ and LTE directly, A1 marketed "air to fiber" to highlight their supposedly fast backend.

PartyMango said:
It's not about speed, but technology - only LTE is considered "true" 4G over here, while HSPA is still very clearly a 3G technology.
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And you folks are much more accurate in your description. Have to love marketing BS here in the States.

PartyMango said:
It's not about speed, but technology - only LTE is considered "true" 4G over here, while HSPA is still very clearly a 3G technology.
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I see... So maybe carriers are are advertising 4G speeds and not technology. Makes sense to me. Are speeds there about the same on "3g+ "?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

momentarylapseofreason said:
And you folks are much more accurate in your description. Have to love marketing BS here in the States.
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Lol yea.. I I just signed a contract with America's largest 4G network and constantly get 200–500kbs on speedtest.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

Well when i had my Hero, Editing the build.prop line which said *something*gprs.class=10 to 12 i got 6-7mb download,which was enough to tether to my pc and HOST Modern warfare 2 with no problems