When I bought the Infuse Wednesday, I was excited to discover that the charging port is the same as my Bluetooth headset (Plantronics Voyager Pro) but while using the phone at work with the charger plugged in for the last 4 hours, I noticed my battery is around 20%. So my question is, do chargers and data cables made for other products not work with the Infuse? And if so, WHY!?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
i can't tell you offhand exactly why but its definitely true. My wifes samsung focus (wp7) charger actually doesnt charge my phone faster than it dies unless I am doing absolutely nothing on it. My phone actually died watching a movie through the hdmi out using her charger. And of course it died with 6 minutes to go. If I find any more info as to the "why" part I will be sure to post. But I wanted to let you know the charger definitely makes a difference
ok so I found a better answer: even though they all use the same voltage. Those 5v chargers have 1 main difference. Different Amperage. Some chargers output only .5A, while others put out 1A. These differences will in turn make the difference between how fast or well it charges your device. This is info I gathered so take it with a grain of salt. If anyone has a better answer or can elaborate feel free to do so!!
Ok, this does make sense. The charger I've been using all night is 5V 180mA... Not all that powerful. Just didn't think it would leave me at 5% 8 hours into my night shift...
Thanks.
Pat713 said:
When I bought the Infuse Wednesday, I was excited to discover that the charging port is the same as my Bluetooth headset (Plantronics Voyager Pro) but while using the phone at work with the charger plugged in for the last 4 hours, I noticed my battery is around 20%. So my question is, do chargers and data cables made for other products not work with the Infuse? And if so, WHY!?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plantronics headset chargers are rated, at MOST, 300 mA. (That's what the one that came with my 975 is rated.)
Our phones need at LEAST 500 mA. The wall charger is rated 700 mA, if you want to run navigation in a car dock it looks like you need at least 1000 mA.
Also, our chargers signal that a "dumb charger" is present by shorting D+ and D- together. I'm not sure what our phones will do with chargers that don't do this (at the moment I'm assuming the phone goes into USB charging mode instead of AC.) In the case of the car dock, what the charger does is irrelevant, as the dock signals its presence in another way and does not pass through D- and D+ from the charger. (D+ and D- go to the audio line out of the dock.)
Also, our phone (and likely many others) assume that they can get whatever current is needed from the charger, so if the charger "droops", it doesn't seem to do anything other than act weird (in most cases, drain the battery).
And another problem I found.. When I first got my Infuse, I was thrilled to see that it used the same type of cable that several other devices I have used. MicroUSB...
So I tried charging with the cable & charger from my Kindle. No go.
It will charge with the Kindle charger, just not the Kindle USB cable. Which makes the 4 extra kindle cables I have useless..
If I had time and inclination, I'd set about to figure out what the difference is between the two cables.
One of the reasons I returned my Atrix and bought an Infuse was because None of my MICRO-USB chargers worked with the Atrix. So far they have all worked with my Infuse.
indymx said:
And another problem I found.. When I first got my Infuse, I was thrilled to see that it used the same type of cable that several other devices I have used. MicroUSB...
So I tried charging with the cable & charger from my Kindle. No go.
It will charge with the Kindle charger, just not the Kindle USB cable. Which makes the 4 extra kindle cables I have useless..
If I had time and inclination, I'd set about to figure out what the difference is between the two cables.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's odd, I was able to use the usb cable that came with my kindle 3.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
One thing I learned working at multiple cell phone places: Motorola phones are PICKY when it comes to chargers. Sprint basically has an ongoing memo to every tech, moto phones are ONLY to be used with moto chargers. It makes no real sense, but it's true.
I've also noticed that my iGo charger takes a good bit less time for a full charge than what came with the phone. Also, not using the adapter and plugging the phone directly into a computer via USB, also makes charging faster. I this k the problem is the USB adapter that Samsung tossed in. Just my .02!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Former phone: iPhone 3GS (P.O.S.)
Current phone: %s (Loving it!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent using XDA app on a phone/OS lightyears ahead of anything Apple has ever secreted from their excrement filled cavities!
One thing - phones vary widely in how they determine that a "dumb charger" is connected.
Samsungs look for D- and D+ shorted to each other. A lot of generic chargers (like the $1.25 Monoprice car chargers) do this.
Apple devices look for weird resistor combinations from D- and D+ to +5 and ground. See http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html
Mini-USB motos used weird combos of resistors to D- and D+ along with resistors between a normally unconnected pin and GND. MicroUSB defines this extra pin as "ID". Our phone uses resistors between ID and GND to determine if "other" devices are connected, such as the Jig, Car Dock, Home Dock, etc. See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=820275 for more details.
The MicroUSB cable that came from our phones is pretty thin-gauge wire. I have a cable from Monoprice that should work MUCH better at high currents, and HAS worked better at high currents with the car dock and an iPad charger. (Without the car dock, it gets seen as a USB charger due to the funky iCharging resistors mentioned above. The car dock works because it doesn't pass USB D+ and D- from the charger to the phone.)
WARNING: I reference the Monoprice cheapo chargers above. They claim they are a 1A charger but they are NOT. They have a resistor that sets peak switch current of the regulator to 600 mA, and output current is going to be less than this.
Related
I am really frustrated with charging my phone.
From the wall, using the stock 700mA Samsung charger, I get 5% every 10 min.
From a USB cigarette lighter charger modified to source 750mA, I get 3% every 10 min.
From a USB cigarette lighter charger that can source 3A, I get hardly anything.
I assume from these findings that one or more of the following is true:
1. The phone knows when it is plugged into a stock charger.
2. The phone has a current limiter that prevents overcharging.
Does anyone have a charger, other than stock, that they recommend?
I'm half tempted to hook my stock charger up to a cigarette lighter inverter and power it that way.
(I'm also half-tempted to grab a current probe tomorrow and measure what the device is pulling.)
i havent really used my oem samsung wall charger much, but i know when i try to charge from my computers usb it takes 4EVER, thats why i jumped on this ebay deal
IBNobody said:
(I'm also half-tempted to grab a current probe tomorrow and measure what the device is pulling.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd probe the chargers and see how accurate their ratings are as well....
does anyone know if using a 1mA charger would be okay? i have one left over from my evo.
The phone won't draw more than 500mA from a charger unless the USB data pins are connected.
Be careful, though... 99.9% of the chargers from China that claim to be 700mA (the nominal value of Samsung's) or 1A will overheat and die (or worse) if you try to actually draw that much current for any sustained length of time. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's SO EASY for a manufacturer to support high-power mode, I'd be automatically suspicious of any allegedly high power charger that doesn't ship with the pins shorted together.
Manufacturers know that most consumers don't know the difference (hell, most users HERE don't know the difference, and XDA is the upper crust elite of the Android phone universe), so they omit the shorting bridge and ship a charger with quoted power capacity that it MIGHT be able to sustain for a couple of minutes if you operated it in a walk-in freezer, knowing that most phones will never draw more than 500mA and it'll work fine for them. It lets them sell the charger for 99 cents AND pretend to be better than the others on the rack because it has a bigger "max power" value.
It's "RMS-vs-Peak" all over again.
Yeah I'm one of those that don't know much about the charging. I did figure there was a different charge rate when plugged into the wall and when plugged into usb or a usb converter like powerjolt.
I also found that one of the usb to micro's that I bought for using with my car powerjolt coverter won't let me connect via debugging/adb shell. was a little surprised at this... is it just a bad cord?
bitbang3r said:
The phone won't draw more than 500mA from a charger unless the USB data pins are connected.
Be careful, though... 99.9% of the chargers from China that claim to be 700mA (the nominal value of Samsung's) or 1A will overheat and die (or worse) if you try to actually draw that much current for any sustained length of time. I'd almost go so far as to say that it's SO EASY for a manufacturer to support high-power mode, I'd be automatically suspicious of any allegedly high power charger that doesn't ship with the pins shorted together.
Manufacturers know that most consumers don't know the difference (hell, most users HERE don't know the difference, and XDA is the upper crust elite of the Android phone universe), so they omit the shorting bridge and ship a charger with quoted power capacity that it MIGHT be able to sustain for a couple of minutes if you operated it in a walk-in freezer, knowing that most phones will never draw more than 500mA and it'll work fine for them. It lets them sell the charger for 99 cents AND pretend to be better than the others on the rack because it has a bigger "max power" value.
It's "RMS-vs-Peak" all over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
D+ to D- must be shorted to get the high power mode? Maybe that was why my 3A supply was not handling it.
The Epic pulls 380mA when charging from a USB port from a Dell T3400 workstation. The result was steady at 40% and 80%.
I'll try out my other charging methods later and find out everything.
Stay tuned!
EDIT 1:
380mA is the magic number. It draws 380mA from all USB sources, including my two car chargers.
It draws 600mA from the wall adapter.
The wall adapter does indeed have D+ and D- shorted. My other chargers did not.
Here is the pinout for a USB port: http://pinouts.ru/Slots/USB_pinout.shtml
Here is the "beefy" USB charger I've been using:
http://www.wagan.com/index.php?page...ategory_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=98
This charger is rather nice because the step-down supply (AX3002) has a large heatsink soldered to the ground tab.
It currently pulls up/down the D+/- lines via resistors. Each port is pulled down separately.
What I plan on doing next is to remove the pull resistors from one of the ports and short D+/- together.
Well, this explains a lot. This was really getting frustrating. I bought a "high-curent" charger for my car and the phone blows through the battery when I'm driving around with Maps running.
Im always on the road and for me an inverter in cigarette lighter with stock wall charger works best.the slowest charge is using stock usb cable since theres a slot for it on the inverter.2nd was radio shack car lighter in inverter.the inverter was from radio shack as well
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
IBNobody said:
Here is the pinout for a USB port: http://pinouts.ru/Slots/USB_pinout.shtml.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is the official spec but there are actually not just four but six connectors on usb micro, which is how samsung can create a whole mess of pinut jumps for various amperage draws as well as data, entrainment dock and car dock.
I lost my wall charger that came with my HP touchpad. The round plug thingie is what I'm looking for. Searching on Amazon brings up a number of items, for example:
http://www.amazon.com/HP-North-American-Charger-TouchPad/dp/B0055QYJJM/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_3
However, is there an alternative that works? I was able to use the Evo cable rather than the original HP sync/charge cable that came with the wall charger, but is there an alternative wall plug that works as well? Paying almost $28 for a charging cable seems a bit ridiculous.
Any help and advice would be most appreciated.
[[FOUND MY ANSWER]]
I found that Walmart was having a sale on the North American charger with the barrel wall connector for $11.99 and Meritline was having a sale for 6' long USB to micro-usb cables (pair for $4.99 no tax/shipping).
The listing on the Meritline page says that the cables are compatible with the Evo.
Given that the cable that comes with the HP barrel charger is pretty much monkey spit and fails within a month, I found a solution that works for less than $20.
Links are below:
Walmart HP Touchpad charger
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-TouchPad-Accessory-Travel-AC-Wall-Adapter-Charger/16641536
Meritline Cables (use this code MLCK222YNL1 for discount (cannot guarantee how long this code is good for, drops the price for a twin pack of the 6' cables from $10.99 to $4.99)
http://www.meritline.com/showproduc...e=6-feet-high-speed-micro-hdmi-cable-ethernet
Pretty much any USB charger will work, but most give a notification on the Touchpad screen indicating that they may not be charging. This is because the official charger is at the high end of both voltage and current capability. I charge from laptop, desktop and a variety of Blackberry chargers with no issue, but the available current will determine how long it takes to charge and whether it charges much while the screen is on. Go for a USB charger that gives you 2 Amps and you should be fine.
dmarchant said:
Pretty much any USB charger will work, but most give a notification on the Touchpad screen indicating that they may not be charging. This is because the official charger is at the high end of both voltage and current capability. I charge from laptop, desktop and a variety of Blackberry chargers with no issue, but the available current will determine how long it takes to charge and whether it charges much while the screen is on. Go for a USB charger that gives you 2 Amps and you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the advice. To be more specific, can you recommend any alternative charging cables/wall charger units specifically?
Any brand name USB charger that gives off 2 amps should be fine. I tend to stay away from really cheap generic chargers. Any microUSB cable should be fine even a generic one if it has decent reviews. I worry about generic chargers since a poorly regulated one could send a voltage too high, but generic cables should be fine.
The chargers I am currently using, as well as the one that came with the TP, are the one that came with a Blackberry Playbook and the one from my HTC Desire HD.
The Blackberry charger gives an error on the screen that it may not charge the TP, but as it gives 2 amps, charges in pretty much the same time as the official unit.
The HTC again gives the warning and takes about twice as long to charge.
what about the nook color charger i know it higher amps might work as well
cesar2010 said:
what about the nook color charger i know it higher amps might work as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just tested the TP with a charger for the NC, and unfortunately, it still gives the same "may not charge" warning...
There is NO after market charger that will charge at full rate like the HP barrel charger!
At best they will trickle charge at a much lower rate and take considerably longer to charge.
The TP relies on precise signaling which it will only get from the OEM item or specially modded after market units or cables.
Do a google for further info ie webosnation.com forums.
I think your looking for a 5.1v charger, aka rapid charger. This is used by the iPad, and some android phones like the Motorola droid 3, razr and htc rezound.
I could be wrong though,I haven't gotten my touchpad yet.but I do own all said device above (except the razr) and they all use the faster charging technology.
Sent from my rezound.
Izeltokatl said:
I think your looking for a 5.1v charger, aka rapid charger. This is used by the iPad, and some android phones like the Motorola droid 3, razr and htc rezound.
I could be wrong though,I haven't gotten my touchpad yet.but I do own all said device above (except the razr) and they all use the faster charging technology.
Sent from my rezound.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will not work at full rate!
No one else uses 5.2 volts
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2
Don't believe all the hype about using ONLY the HP charger, there are many that do the job perfectly well. Too many people make these authoritarian statements and all they do is cause FUD.
At my office, I use the AC charger from my last Samsung phone (mythic) and it works IDENTICALLY to the OEM one. I have also used a Moto and and LG with NO PROBLEMS. I have no issues getting to fully charged in little time.
At home, my OEM cable is plugged into a high-power USB port (2.1A, I believe) and it has no problem charging from near zero to full as well. Front or top-mounted USB ports tend to be 500mA or less, but the rear ones (coming directly off the motherboard) tend to have a higher supply. I also use a non-HP USB cable occasionally and it works fine.
(I got my TP during the original fire-sale and have been charging it these ways ever since with ZERO ISSUES.)
R1ptide said:
No one else uses 5.2 volts
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The small voltage difference is marginal and isn't going to matter, the internal hardware should be able to tolerate a few tenths of a volt difference. In fact, I tested my Motorola charger rated at 5.1v and the Touchpad charger rated at 5.2v on a multimeter. The Motorola charger was outputting 5.20v and the Touchpad charger 5.16v. Granted this is at no load, but switching transformers are regulated so they should supply rated voltage at any current draw equal to or less than rated. Also depending on how well the voltage is regulated there may still be a slight AC ripple that the device has to deal with.
Does anyone know the time difference between using the TP charger and a standard droid/blackberry charger? Also curious if the charges last the same. I know theoretically they should since the battery is full either way, but electricals can be tricksiy..
sirclesam said:
Does anyone know the time difference between using the TP charger and a standard droid/blackberry charger? Also curious if the charges last the same. I know theoretically they should since the battery is full either way, but electricals can be tricksiy..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its all down to the charge rate that the TP is able to draw.
2A which is theoretically possible from TP AC barrel charger would charge the 6A+ battery of the TP from flat to full in approximately 6.5 hours.
If the BB charger were able to have 500mA drawn by the TP then it would fully charge in approximately 26 hours.
The charges would be no different.
To convert any regular USB charger into a TouchPad charger you need to add 2 resistors as per the diagram attached.
The presence of the resistors will trigger the TouchPad to draw the full 2A from the charger rather than the trickle charge it does when they are not there.
Please do not modify a cheap charger that is only rated for 500mA as you will most likely overheat it and it could present a fire risk.
stuart_f said:
To convert any regular USB charger into a TouchPad charger you need to add 2 resistors as per the diagram attached.
The presence of the resistors will trigger the TouchPad to draw the full 2A from the charger rather than the trickle charge it does when they are not there.
Please do not modify a cheap charger that is only rated for 500mA as you will most likely overheat it and it could present a fire risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just pointing out that you need to start with a charger that is rated at least 2Ah to start with.
You can't turn a low rated one into a high rated one.
pa49 said:
Just pointing out that you need to start with a charger that is rated at least 2Ah to start with.
You can't turn a low rated one into a high rated one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh, for the love of gods. REALLY? I was just asking for a replacement cable. I don't want to reinvent the charging paradigm. I just need a simple recommendation for a cable. If a thread could be highjacked any further I don't know how it could be.
I appreciate all your "advice" but seriously, this is NOT what I was asking.
Anyone know if I can get a similar cable in the UK? Kind of lost my TP cable, and I miss the flexibility the long cable gave me, it was so much easier to use on charge!
well i know that my tbolt cable works. i have to use the tp adapter though. my tbolt adapter makes the touchpad say that the charger is incompatible.
Hi.
I'm looking for an advise about car charger that can charge my TF700.
does anyone confirmed that there any car charger that works?
I mean, I saw some posts that says that ASUS' charger is 15v instead of the more common 5v?
but then I saw the charger, it says " Output : 5v === 2A or 15v === 1.2A"
So I assume I can use other car charger that works with other tablets?
can someone confirm this for me?
THANKS
The tablet will only start to detect a charge at 12V.
Charging at anything lower than that will charge about 1-3% every hour.
ShadowLea said:
The tablet will only start to detect a charge at 12V.
Charging at anything lower than that will charge about 1-3% every hour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh. okay. any recommendation on what charger should i get?
preferably one with dual USB.
USB is not going to work, in any form or capacity. a USB port can only put out 5V at max.
I use a power inverter that puts out 230V (bought it for my laptop a couple of years ago) through a normal outlet. Plugged the charger into that and it charges normally. You could try looking into that.
ShadowLea said:
USB is not going to work, in any form or capacity. a USB port can only put out 5V at max.
I use a power inverter that puts out 230V (bought it for my laptop a couple of years ago) through a normal outlet. Plugged the charger into that and it charges normally. You could try looking into that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well. if that's the case. I might buy another wall charger...
william tanaya said:
Hi.
I'm looking for an advise about car charger that can charge my TF700.
does anyone confirmed that there any car charger that works?
I mean, I saw some posts that says that ASUS' charger is 15v instead of the more common 5v?
but then I saw the charger, it says " Output : 5v === 2A or 15v === 1.2A"
So I assume I can use other car charger that works with other tablets?
can someone confirm this for me?
THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YES the ASUS Transformer will only charge from between 12 & 15V. They DO NOT charge from 5V USB.
I have found that the car chargers which have the ASUS 40 pin plug attached to the cable work fine. They have a regulator circuit which outputs 12V at 1.5A minimum.
The ones available on eBay work well and aren't too expensive. They are a little bulky because of the high current circuitry so look at the pictures and make sure that it looks bigger than the average ones and you will do fine.
unfortunately there's no car charger available as of yet.
Sent from my VS920 4G using xda app-developers app
An Carcharger is avilable, i have one and it is working. 15v 1,2A Carcharger with normal Asus connetor. I'm usin it since 2 Month, never had problems. Carcharger is even cooler as the 230V USB charger while charging. Asus Tabel also switch immediately in charging mode. 14€ at Amazon.de.
By the way, why is everyone saying 5V won't work? On my 230V USB charger there's following note "15V 1,2A or 5V 2A"
Well won't need it, just buy this one ( which i have):
www.Amazon.de/gp/product/B007PQ8AN6/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01
Just ignore that tf700t isn't written there and that the charger would have 1,5A. Thats wrong, Carcharger has 15V 1,2A.
If you won't believe me, i can make an picture ( that it will have 15V 1,2A and works) otherwise have fun with it
Speedmastersaxai said:
By the way, why is everyone saying 5V won't work? On my 230V USB charger there's following note "15V 1,2A or 5V 2A"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why aren't you reading everything? I said 5V charges too slowly for the tablet to detect, but it does charge. About 1-3% an hour, which is useless when you're using it. It clearly says, in the manual, that it will only charge over USB (5V) when turned OFF and not connected to the dock. RTFM.
SUH said:
unfortunately there's no car charger available as of yet.
Sent from my VS920 4G using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how many different threads I have to post this in...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0081BFYY2/ref=wms_ohs_product
Includes a home charger, car charger, and an extra USB cable, that ALL work. I have been using these with my Transformer Prime, and now my Infinity without an issue at all, and they provide the ASUS required specs for charging and work just like the factory provided chargers.
I ran into this issue with my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Nexus. When attached to a charger, if I went into Settings...Battery... it would show the status of the charging process: it would say "USB" when connected to a computer, and charged at a much slower rate, or "AC" when plugged into the supplied charger in a regular outlet, and charged much more quickly.
With most car chargers, it would only show "USB" but there are some car chargers that have the correct wiring so that it was recognized as "AC" and charged as quickly as when plugged into a regular outlet.
I have two of these in my vehicles, and I just checked one of them, the one listed below first, and with the Tablet plugged into it, it shows as charging, as an "AC" source, just as with my Galaxy Nexus.
Here is the one I specifically tested and verified that it works:
Dual USB Car Charger
I do note the 2 negative reviews there, but all I can say is that I've had this one for almost a year, and it has worked perfectly for me with my phone. A brief test with the Asus Tablet confirmed it was seen as an "AC" charger.
This is the other one I have and which works fine with my phone, although I have not specifically tested it with the Tablet (I have no reason to expect it would behave any differently):
HTC T-Mobile myTouch 3G Car Charger
Obviously, I can't be held responsible if somebody else has a different experience with these, or has problems because of it. Just trying to be helpful and report what has worked for me.
You might consider the i-Blason 12V 2A MINI BULLET STYLE CAR CHARGER FOR ASUS Eee TRANSFORMER from Amazon (Sorry, but noobs can post links)
It's compact, uses your existing cable and delivers 12 VDC @ 2 A. Under $10 US.
Aviator47 said:
You might consider the i-Blason 12V 2A MINI BULLET STYLE CAR CHARGER FOR ASUS Eee TRANSFORMER from Amazon (Sorry, but noobs can post links)
It's compact, uses your existing cable and delivers 12 VDC @ 2 A. Under $10 US.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may work, or it may not. Drawing on my experience with the Galaxy Nexus, there were quite a few car chargers that had specs like this but which in fact were seen as "USB" chargers when used with the Nexus, and I suspect would behave the same way with the TF700T.
I am not an eletrical engineer, but it has something to do with how certain pins are shorted or not, and not all chargers that say they deliver the higher amperage will in fact do so with all devices.
It'll just take somebody to buy and try, and report what does or doesn't work. Per my post above, the chargers that work with my Nexus also work with my Tablet, in being seen as "AC" charging.
DLCPhoto said:
It may work, or it may not. Drawing on my experience with the Galaxy Nexus, there were quite a few car chargers that had specs like this but which in fact were seen as "USB" chargers when used with the Nexus, and I suspect would behave the same way with the TF700T.
I am not an eletrical engineer, but it has something to do with how certain pins are shorted or not, and not all chargers that say they deliver the higher amperage will in fact do so with all devices.
It'll just take somebody to buy and try, and report what does or doesn't work. Per my post above, the chargers that work with my Nexus also work with my Tablet, in being seen as "AC" charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don
I have one on order and will pick it up at my daughter's when we go to the US next month. Will post what I learn.
HOWEVER - a true "USB Charger" provides a 5VDC output, not 12- 15 VDC, as does the i-Blason unit I mentioned. Note that i-Blason states very clearly, "Warning: Pls do not use with other MP3 or smartphone... High Voltage could cause burn out."
The difference many smartphones (and other USB ported devices) detect in "USB Chargers" versus "AC Chargers" is max current available (<0.5 A vs >1.0 A) For example, I have a USB battery and a video cam that will both fail to illuminate the charging light if connected to a charging source below about 0.75 A, but still charge, albeit slowly. Both came with 1.5 A USB (5 VDC) wall chargers.
Since the i-Blason is a 12 VDC, not a 5 VDC output, the odds are high it will charge the Transformers at a rate very similar to the wall charger. At least based on electrical "theory". If I had to blind pick a third party car charger, the specs for the i-Blason, to include using the stock cable, were what influenced my choice.
Aviator47 said:
Don
I have one on order and will pick it up at my daughter's when we go to the US next month. Will post what I learn.
HOWEVER - a true "USB Charger" provides a 5VDC output, not 12- 15 VDC, as does the i-Blason unit I mentioned. Note that i-Blason states very clearly, "Warning: Pls do not use with other MP3 or smartphone... High Voltage could cause burn out."
The difference many smartphones (and other USB ported devices) detect in "USB Chargers" versus "AC Chargers" is max current available (<0.5 A vs >1.0 A) For example, I have a USB battery and a video cam that will both fail to illuminate the charging light if connected to a charging source below about 0.75 A, but still charge, albeit slowly. Both came with 1.5 A USB (5 VDC) wall chargers.
Since the i-Blason is a 12 VDC, not a 5 VDC output, the odds are high it will charge the Transformers at a rate very similar to the wall charger. At least based on electrical "theory". If I had to blind pick a third party car charger, the specs for the i-Blason, to include using the stock cable, were what influenced my choice.
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Click to collapse
Appreciate the additional info - will be interested to see if it performs as hoped. I suspect it will, especially based on that warning.
With the advent of the S4, and its higher capacity battery, one could understand a higher charging current. However, I seem to have uncovered some findings that the charging system on the S4 is a bit more complex than first thought!
This is a bit techy, and assumes you have a basic amount of electrical knowledge, ie voltages, currents, resistance etc., but I'll try and keep it as simple as possible for anyone who may not!
To explain: The mains charger supplied with the S4 is a model number ETA-U90UWE, rated 5V @ 2A. However, the phone will ONLY charge at full current (which as I have measured so far, depending on what the phone regulates it to, typically sits in the region of 1.2 - 1.5A), when using the supplied charger (or possibly one of equal or higher current rating, depending on how it's configured internally), AND the supplied usb cable, OR any other usb cable, provided its shielding (the metal outer surface of the connectors) is connected at BOTH ends of the cable. Use a cable that doesn't have this shielding, and the charge current drops, regardless of whether there is plenty of current available or not. Use a different charger with an unshielded cable and the current drops even more, again regardless of whether it can supply plenty more current.
My assumption on this, is possibly an effort by Samsung to avoid the scenario of sticking 1.5 amps down a flimsy cheapo cable, the wires of which will likely be too thin to carry it.
After doing some probing around with a meter, I have managed to find a slight difference with the charger itself, compared to a generic one. In a generic one, the two data pins are usually just shorted together, which tells most phones that it's a mains charger rather than a USB port. On the Samsung one on the other hand, the pins appear to be shorted together, and also connected via resistors across the supply line (known as a potential divider), which holds these shorted data pins at a certain voltage. This is what tells the phone what sort of charger it's connected to.
Attached are a couple of diagrams to show the difference between the two chargers. There are in fact various setups of resistors that different manufacturers use to set the charging current, so it's quite easy to run into compatibility issues!
To make this a little less confusing I have done some preliminary experimenting, and I set out my results here.
For the test, I used combinations of 4 different usb style mains chargers: an apple iPhone one rated at 1A, an iPad one rated 2.4A, an HTC 1A one, and the genuine S4 one. With these I used two cables - the supplied Samsung S4 one (which is shielded), and a cheap generic one (which isn't). I started by measured the charging current directly with a meter, by using a very short usb breakout lead I've made, enabling me to interrupt the 5V line. However, I soon noticed that the use of any extension cables, even shielded, can lessen the chance of maintaining a good shielding connection, so I continued the exercise relying on the "galaxy charging current" app to get a reading.
Charger.................... Cable................ Current (A)
=====================================
HTC 1A.................Generic..................... 0.5
HTC 1A.................Samsung S4..............1.0
Apple 1A...............Generic......................0.5
Apple 1A...............Samsung S4..............1.0
Apple 2.4A............Generic......................0.6
Apple 2.4A............Samsung S4..............1.3
Samsung S4.........Generic...................... 0.8
Samsung S4.........Samsung S4...............1.3
So as you can see from these results, the original charger makes a difference, and the supplied cable (or a good quality shielded one) makes a further difference. If you have any further findings please feel free to add them here.
I can see that this is going to confuse some people, as it has me, as I'm sure some will inevitably try charging up their phone on generic chargers/leads at some point, with potentially long charging times resulting!
.
Very nice findings! Thanks for sharing them.
Not only what you say about longer charging time, but also discharging may occur (it has with me) while connected to the USB. I left my phone with USB tethering and it shut itself down after a couple of hours (it was low on battery already). I wanted to keep all the accessories in "new condition" in case I sell the phone in a few months, but I guess this justifies using the official charger and usb lead.
I hope someone can shed some light on the detection mechanism or the particular characteristics of the official cable so it can be replicated in generic ones.
From your findings, also Appe 2,4A charger has some control on the cable used, thanks.
Yes, but you won't be able to get more than about 0.75A out of it even with the samsung s4 cable.
You could try to add an extension cable to check if the charging system needs exclusively an original samsung cable from the charger to the phone.
Original samsung charger => extension cable male/female => original samsung cable => phone
PS: is there an app to check the charging current?
My experiments used an extension cable, that's the one I made into a breakout cable. So no it doesn't change by adding a cable.
There is an app, called galaxy charging current, which I tried also. In the 0.75A results above it showed a max permissible current of 1000mA, with the fully samsung setup it showed 1900mA. In the lower scenarios is showed up as 460mA. Other than that it doesn't tell you anything, it literally just shows you a max possible current, not the actual current it's drawing.
I've found out what the issue was, my generic cable was obviously a cheap one and wasn't shielded! I have edited my original post to re-explain.
Also I did a further test on a PC usb port - the Samsung cable allowed for 500mA, but the unshielded cheap one only allowed about 350mA, so (as pintycar found out), the phone actually carries on discharging in this case!
Interesting post.
I've been trying to mod a car charger so that the s4 draws more than 300mA so far unsucessful. I'm going to add in the 82K resistance and see what happens.
demusss said:
Interesting post.
I've been trying to mod a car charger so that the s4 draws more than 300mA so far unsucessful. I'm going to add in the 82K resistance and see what happens.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
Before: 450ma, after 1.73a
Then using a clamp meter I tested it with a 2amp Asus tablet charger - it varied between 1.48 and 1.61 amp.
I have since built a few more cables - one to use in my car (again 2 amp charger).
All in all, it works very effectively. Thanks for the initial research (saved me having to open my charger.)
BTW I suspect it is the charger where the resistors are, not the cable, otherwise the phone would try to pull 1.5a + from a laptop if you connected it.
Left my samsung cable at work so will test it tomorrow (if I remember)!
W.
Interesting. So basically for us laymen, you are telling us to use the original charger and cables to the extent possible ... right?
Can you clarify to me what an unshielded cable is? Maybe with a picture? I've got a blackberry's cable at work connected to my PC.
At home, I also have a cable and charger that I got with my Nexus S (I think this says Output 5.0V ~ 0.7A).
Would this be a problem or can I get by with these?
Thanks
I've been using the Samsung cable+charger+USB extension cable and charging the S4 usually takes about 4 hours, I'm going to try with just the Samsung cable next time and see if it makes any difference since people are saying that theirs can be fully charged within less than 3 hours.
Paparasee said:
Interesting. So basically for us laymen, you are telling us to use the original charger and cables to the extent possible ... right?
Can you clarify to me what an unshielded cable is? Maybe with a picture? I've got a blackberry's cable at work connected to my PC.
At home, I also have a cable and charger that I got with my Nexus S (I think this says Output 5.0V ~ 0.7A).
Would this be a problem or can I get by with these?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I believe (guess work here ) that only the original charger "needs" a shielded cable - could be checked by shorting the ground and shield on one side and see if it works at the higher current - if I am bored I may do it - it probably checks the shield and limits the current if it is not there (note I have not tested this so only going by the first posters findings).
BTW a shielded cable has a wire mesh around the 4 internal cables - this mesh avoids external interference messing with the signals. Can't see it affecting the charging though BUT shielded cables tend to have thicker internal cables so could be related to this.
I have it charging at 1.7a on an unshielded cable (thought he power strands are thicker than average) Shielding should only affect the data transfer speed, not the charging current.
If the Nexus S has only a 700mah charger then this will not be able to provide enough current for high speed charging and could easily burn out - nice smell, dead charger, not much else. therefore only use a normal unmodified usb cable (and it will charge at about 450mah).
W.
all this would eexplian why the charger that camewith my S2 dosen't appear to charge my phone fully over night...
For what it's worth I'm charging with a Note 1 charger...a thick shielded cable via the S3 docking station....and getting 900mah...
will get my original cable tonight and have a go tomorrow...
interesting read, my s4 lead and charger are still in the box and I'm using my nexus 10 ones phone charged from about 30% to full in just over 2. may have to change the old HTC £2 lead I've got connected to my works pc then, maybe why it's struggling to charge when playing music. guess this is one way to get people to buy more expensive cables
Very interesting read, thanks TS.
My original charger and cable set is still in the box; I've been using my Mom's old Galaxy Note charger.
I'll try the original cable + wall mount and see how fast it is compared to my current charger.
wmccann2 said:
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
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Click to collapse
Can you show me your final cable with a pic? Thanks
After this thread I have stopped using my blackberry bold cable to charge s4 and of course the cheap one too.. thanks op!
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app
I'm not sure if shielded vs. unshielded is the difference - probably wire gauge is the difference.
For example, if you shop at Monoprice, you have two options for USB cables: 28 gauge cables, and 24/28 gauge cables.
For wire gauge, lower is larger - the 24/28 gauge cables have thicker wires for the + and GND lines. A pure 28 gauge cable is likely to drop voltage a bit at high currents, and my observations have been that most newer devices, ESPECIALLY Qualcomm-based ones, are VERY finicky when it comes to input voltage drops.
As to the charger itself:
Apple chargers are almost guaranteed not to charge at full current, as they don't conform at all to the USB battery charging standard. Some newer Android devices do have at least partial detection of Apple chargers, so they may charge at 1A if an Apple charger is detected (any Apple charge, even 2.1A ones).
It sounds like the included official charger is a tablet-compatible one. Samsung tablets expect D+ and D- to be held by the charger at 1.2 or 1.8 volts (I forget which). As a result, Samsung tablets will not charge from standard chargers (like an N7 charger), but standard devices (like an N7) will charge from Samsung tablet chargers.
Now, the question is: Does the GS4 *require* a Samsung tablet-style charger, or did Samsung just include a tablet-style charger because it's backwards-compatible with standard devices? (less part numbers to track in inventory).
A useful pair of points would be: Using the same cable, does the Samsung charger behave significantly different from a Nexus 7 charger?
wmccann2 said:
Hi,
Using a 5a digital bench power supply, I took a normal micro USB cable, cut it in two, added in the 82k resistors and tested.
Before: 450ma, after 1.73a
Then using a clamp meter I tested it with a 2amp Asus tablet charger - it varied between 1.48 and 1.61 amp.
I have since built a few more cables - one to use in my car (again 2 amp charger).
All in all, it works very effectively. Thanks for the initial research (saved me having to open my charger.)
BTW I suspect it is the charger where the resistors are, not the cable, otherwise the phone would try to pull 1.5a + from a laptop if you connected it.
Left my samsung cable at work so will test it tomorrow (if I remember)!
W.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I missed this post on my first read-through: What happens if you just short D+ and D- when using the bench supply?
Anyone attempt to use an iPad charger with the Tab S? I always travel with it and just pack a micro USB cable since it has high output. Just attempted to plug in my 10.5 to it and nothing. Luckily I was able to track down a different charger, and it worked fine with the same cable. This is the first device I've had that refused to charge using my iPad charger. What gives?
Mine won't charge that method either. (ipad air plug)
I think the Tab S is very picky, with some other chargers, i get the lightning indicator in the battery with a red cross on top, is this the same with you.
Yeah, mine's a little picky too. It won't charge off the Motorola micro usb chargers we have all over the place at work, but it will charge off just about any USB plug and cable I throw at it. Also charges off the USB ports in the plug strip in the living room.
litesout said:
Yeah, mine's a little picky too. It won't charge off the Motorola micro usb chargers we have all over the place at work, but it will charge off just about any USB plug and cable I throw at it. Also charges off the USB ports in the plug strip in the living room.
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Click to collapse
Do you get the red cross on top of that battery indicator.
There is a standard for high current usb chargers (rather than pc usb ports) that is indicated by having the data lines shorted together, as far as I understand it the iPad charger uses a different system to indicate high charge ability. (I'm assuming) the Samsung charger has these pins shorted internally and uses a plain cable (which can also be used for pc data connection).
You can get the high charge rate from a standard charger by using a cable with the data lines sorted, either make your own or buy a ready made one (e.g. Portapow or their plug-in inline adapter). I'd guess that the same cable would also get full charge via the iPad charger, these cables though cannot be used to connect to pc for data.
Samsung dedicated chargers
Apple and Samsung both use their own unique standards for USB charging so their devices know when they are connected to a charger capable of supplying the higher current they prefer. They do this by using a resistor voltage devider inside the charger to apply a very specific voltage to the data leads of the USB cable.
A little Googling will find examples and descriptions of the Samsung design.
There is a little plug-in, intelligent, USB adapter available that will interface Apple and Samsung devices to any charger. It senses what device you have and supplies the correct voltages on the data leads so your device thinks it's plugged into its official cherger. I think I saw it on ebay.
Edit- here is the adapter to allow using any charger with Samsung or Apple devices.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charging-Port-Controller-Fast-charging-adapter-identificatio-For-Phone-PAD-/141342316282?pt=US_Other_Cell_Phone_Accessories&hash=item20e8a896fa
Just keep in mind that this adapter will make your tablet believe it's connected to a charger that can supply high current. If the charger cannot supply high current, it will be overloaded and it's output voltage will sag.
I don't think this will damage the Samsung tablet, but it will slow down charging and may overheat the charger.
cheetokhan said:
Apple and Samsung both use their own unique standards for USB charging so their devices know when they are connected to a charger capable of supplying the higher current they prefer. They do this by using a resistor voltage devider inside the charger to apply a very specific voltage to the data leads of the USB cable.
A little Googling will find examples and descriptions of the Samsung design.
There is a little plug-in, intelligent, USB adapter available that will interface Apple and Samsung devices to any charger. It senses what device you have and supplies the correct voltages on the data leads so your device thinks it's plugged into its official cherger. I think I saw it on ebay.
Edit- here is the adapter to allow using any charger with Samsung or Apple devices.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Charging-Port-Controller-Fast-charging-adapter-identificatio-For-Phone-PAD-/141342316282?pt=US_Other_Cell_Phone_Accessories&hash=item20e8a896fa
Just keep in mind that this adapter will make your tablet believe it's connected to a charger that can supply high current. If the charger cannot supply high current, it will be overloaded and it's output voltage will sag.
I don't think this will damage the Samsung tablet, but it will slow down charging and may overheat the charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but I was also unable to charge the tablet with my wife's macbook using the same cable that works fine with other wall chargers. I am pretty sure it worked fine when it was booted into bootcamp as well...
She's in Europe for a few months so I won't be able to confirm for a while.
mears said:
Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but I was also unable to charge the tablet with my wife's macbook using the same cable that works fine with other wall chargers. I am pretty sure it worked fine when it was booted into bootcamp as well...
She's in Europe for a few months so I won't be able to confirm for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only charger I've used with my Tab S 10.5 is this one- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVH62J2/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I haven't even tried the factory charger yet. I'll have to test it and see if the Tab S uses the same voltage sensing on the data leads as the previous Samsung tablets.
I've been using an Ipad 10w charger,fat,square,.twice the weight of the OEM Samsung charger ,removable prongs.
It WORKS WELL. Where my Samsung OEM charger has trouble charging
when the tablet is in use, the fat Apple charger kept charging at a good speed.
A bit warm as compared to OEM Samsung charger but not "Hot".
Probably 20% + faster charging as its very noticeable (except 99 to 100 % takes a while, charging rate software?)
I'm using an original Apple charger at work to charge my 8.4. I don't know if the charger is for an iPhone or iPad. Someone left it at work. I gave away the lightning cable that came with it since I don't own an Apple product. The cable I'm using is part of an LG qi charger (doesn't come with a wall adapter/charger).