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UPDATES: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN HERE!!!
This enitre section has been dedicated to you, and getting you the help and information you need! For that reason, it is only right that you all have a say in what you would like to see happen here.
From changes in the rules, to specific info, IT IS ALL UP TO YOU!!! Myself, and the other members who dedicate there time here, are constantly trying to come up with new ideas and ways to make this section better for you. So give us a hand, and you will get what you want.
This is not another thread where you ideas and comments will just be looked over. All of you requested the ability to open your own thread, and you got it. Now what else do you want to see happen here? Looking forward to seeing your ideas!!!
**ONCE YOUR POST HAS BEEN READ, IT MAY BE REMOVED. THIS IS NOT BECAUSE YOUR IDEA OR COMMENT IS NOT BEING WORKED ON AND CONSIDERED. THIS IS SIMPLY TO ENSURE THAT ALL IDEAS WILL BE SEEN AND NOT LOST IN PAGE AFTER PAGE OF POSTS!! EACH IDEA OR COMMENT WILL BE COPIED TO ALL MODERATORS AND MEMBERS WHO WORK ON THIS SECTION. WE WILL THEN TRY OUR BEST TO FULFILL YOUR REQUEST!!
As a noob with an interest in this I would like to see an area where some steps are given to get us started. I don't learn too well by reading, and prefer to see some examples.
An example would be a screen shot of some code, along with what it does and why it does it.
Maybe if someone is feeling extra adventurous, some 'hands on' tests could be posted, starting with easy, small basic apps going up to fixing issues on the latest ROM.
I have gone through google and most places seem to assume that there is already some basic knowledge acquired. I have no knowledge but a strong interest.
Right now it seems like a huge undertaking, but with people posting new software, fixes, ROM's etc in a short period of time I am beginning to believe it is more about understanding concepts than learning a complete new way of thinking.
How did you guys start? What were your first steps? What help would you give your best friend if they wanted to start writing apps and cooking ROM's?
I appreciate all you guys do, and the help I have got from this site over the last few months has been immense. I want some advice on how I can give something back.
I've got a server pad off until the end of Feb 2010 and came up with an idea the other day that I wanted to run by the people who spend a lot of time building ROMs and apps for all of us. Let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to take anything away from XDA (I spend a lot of time here), but my idea can really put some money in the pockets of these guys that work so hard for us.
As I said, I have a server I'm not using (along with an installation of VBulletin). My idea is to give the developers a "home", where each has their own forum. Within their own forum they would have their own ads (from Google or whatever they choose), so that they had a real income from their work and not just hope that people donate money occasionally. Within their own section their would be a subforum where only they could post (explanation of releases, instructions, FAQ, etc), so that it wouldnt become a mess. A user feedback section, and a troubleshooting section........with all the user interaction still here at XDA.
I've also set up a download section for ROMs, Themes, Widgets, and Apps, where only developers could upload, but everyone could download....so that everything is in one easy to access spot.
Again, I'm not trying to take anything away from XDA....what I am trying to do is organize something that benefits all of us, by giving the devs a chance to make a little cash, while giving them a place to post their latest releases. I'm not doing this for my own gain (Other than trying to keep my sanity reading through 400 pages of bickering and redundant silly questions)
If any of you Devs are interested (and I've already talked to a few of you), hit me up by PM or email and I'll get you hooked up.
http://androidclubhouse.com
love this idea, this will probably relive the xda servers of some stress, ROM threads have an average of 1000+ replies also might give the mods a little less to worry about, thats right mods i see you trying to keep this forum organized and appreciate your efforts
triple bump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE
can average joes like me sign up or maybe i can be a moderator if you allow
Yeah, as I said my goal with this was two-fold. First I'm doing this as an idea to help these developers make some scratch (I'll give developers special access and have them open a Google Adsense account). That way these guys can get paid for their efforts.
The other goal was to start from scratch with a clean and managed place. There is a lot going on here, a lot of ideas, a lot of dialogue. What I want to do is give each developer a section, one forum where only they can post (info on the releases, FAQ, etc....without any comments from followers), then have a forum where followers can offers ideas and discuss the releases, then a third forum for troubleshooting (I'd like to find some way of marking issues as solved, then closing them, so people with similar issues arent digging through 400 pages looking for answers).
I have a downloads page, which I'd really like to use.....maybe we can just have all the pertinent downloads there linked to wherever they are saved, or I can host them.
So, in closing, I am not trying to replace XDA (I'm working on adding a link to it to the navbar), I'm trying to augment it. I have the server and software paid of til Feb 2010, so I'm hoping this will turn out to be a good solution and we can keep it going. As always, if you guys have ideas or questions, let me know.
pcexpert2 said:
can average joes like me sign up or maybe i can be a moderator if you allow
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Absolutely....I'm just an average Joe. I am a computer hardware guy (used to own HardwareLogic, but sold it to deal with health issues). My wife bought me a G1 a couple of months back and I've not put it down since. I've been around here for quite awhile and recommend XDA to a lot of people (My last phone was a TMO Dash, which died a sad death when I fell and cracked the screen), I just dont post unless I have something to add to the conversation.
I really want to get people involved, I want to have a nice place, but a place with limited BS, and where things are kept on topic.
I'm onboard for any site that will keep the stupid posts/reposts/BUT HOW DO I DO IT? at bay. Not to criticize xda, but it has grown beyond the moderators abilities and it's just a mess.
I'm going to need help, but my thought was to generate a FAQ post for every thread, and then take the time to consolidate frequent issues we see into stickies, and lock them......so people can find the answers without digging through the BS.
I think we can do that by marking solved issues as "Solved" and locking the threads (then making them a sticky or creating a separate forum for them). By staying on top of that, things should work well.
YO hit me back. Just to chat. Your biggest fan, this is Stan.
To throw up very basic idea for recomendation of being in the design [if happens]:
In the comments on the rom section, make it so the comments can be seperated in category [like maybe side by side or something], like the biggest issue with forums is seperation with them is too seperate. People want to ask their problem with the rom where more viewers are. Its nature. Feedback and Troubleshooting. Thats what I would suggest. Then its simple organization method that keeps the roms clean for the developers to get a good idea whats wrong and how to perfect. Random problem posts in 1 page probably has 7 problems, 3 with response to helping, and 2 for feedback. How to see whats going on. Keep it clean so people can see exactly what they are getting and how to do it, thats key. Make no assumptions about people, think no one knows anything, and make it based on that.
Just a suggestion for [anything] in the future.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3807449#post3807449
we need to consolidate, so far (the link above is for themes) i have seen 10 or more websites to try and put all of the downloads. its a wonderful idea. but if it is to be implemented, we will actually need EVERYONE's attention, and get one site with everything.
it sounds like a good idea, it'll be nice if it can be implemented for a quick place to find useful links. I have so many bookmarks because everything is so scattered on different sites and forums it'll be good to have it all together
I will be working on this all night and tomorrow. Those of you that are developers, sign up and let me know who you are by pm or email. Once I hear from you I will set up your section and give you all the acess.....then we can work on the ads for your section and let you focus on your work.
I will need a couple people to help me watch over things, so some of you senior members hit me up as well if interested.
As to breaking down the sections...here is what I did.....only the developers can post in the rin the ROM release forum, but there is an attached forum where peopele can share ideas and make comments, and an attached troubleshooting forum...well go from there.
As to the downloads page I have it sectioned, so everything should be easy to locate...kind of a one stop shop.
Once we get people posting content, maybe we can come together and edit it down to a series of tutorials, FAQ. Guides, or whatever....one thing I would like to see is a list of all the terminal commands...kind of a glossary...as well as a glossary of terms users need to know to get started, both of those would cut down a lot on redundant questions.
I am watching a few movies with a friend, but later I plan on adding a front page, answering emails, and tinkering with the setup.....keep up with the ideas, and if you want to help out, let me know
yeah
I think it sounds like a Great Idea!!! Get signing up Devs!! Make some more money other than your Donations!!!
Thats my whole point, my idea wasnt a forum to compete with XDA and other forums....but a place for the Devs to post/store their work without all the off topic and petty stuff that ends up being posted. There of course is discussion threads, but not mixed in with the ROM Release threads (Which only the Devs can post to).....there are separate discussion threads for bug reporting and ideas/comments.
Its all set up and ready to go, we just need the Devs to jump on. As soon as they get me some adsense code I will integrate it and they can start making some money from their own ads. Devs, help me help you..........
I also dont want to limit this to the ROM writers, if you have a tutorial, hack, app, widget, etc you want to post please let me know.
I am trying to get a glossary of terms built, as well as as many tutorials as possible, which should cut way down on repeat questions.
If there is a Photoshop Expert out thwere, hit me up, I need a nice logo put together for the site.
Looking good!
The site is looking good so far! I'm sure the devs are on their way!
How Many...
How many Developers are planning to give this a go?
I would also think that letting the rom devs have the ability to moderate their own respective threads if they so choose might be a good idea.
Separate out:
Q/A - general
Q/A - bug specific
Thank you
something to that effect.
I would design the website logo for free and moderate.
That's if you let me.
Rom Devs
ggolemg said:
I would also think that letting the rom devs have the ability to moderate their own respective threads if they so choose might be a good idea.
Separate out:
Q/A - general
Q/A - bug specific
Thank you
something to that effect.
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The Rom Devs are given the Ability to Moderate their posts as they wish, and thanks for the Q/A tips. Have you checked the site out yet?
To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.
I don't see the problem it's really the person decision making the rom. I really hate searching through hundreds of posts to find info and would like to be able to have an easier way. I wish my rom did have it's own forum. Its not like they cant ask here or the rom cant be posted here. I am sure the cooker will support both since he will receive donations from both sources.
Use search link in my sign, its a lot easier and faster to search this forum. I agree there is tons of information in here. And most of all, anything that you can think of has been asked before, all you have to know is how to search, and you will find the information you want. So starting a new thread unless you are contributing is just waste of server space!
I'll take this spot to reinforce what Travito says in the next post. Phoenix is a community driven rom and the Phoenix forum helps us prioritize what we include in a build, the fixes we do and allows us to have a very collaborative process. We do post general fixes on xda.
The OP also doesn't realize the collaboration that goes on behind the scenes between the chefs, moderators and other developers that drive the general improvements in all of the roms that are being produced. This is especially true in the Kaiser community. It is this sharing that drives innovation and improvements. This process isn't necessarily one that I would want out in the open since it is iterative and tedious at times. It takes a long time to fix bugs but we all share our experiences.
One last thing, we on the Phoenix team do NOT accept donations, solicit donations or put advertising on our forum...You see we do this because we believe in helping the community. I am not disrespecting those chefs that accept donations because circumstances vary and needs vary. I am just stating that a private forum is NOT about making money.
Parley
okay, now that my little gaffe is out of the way from being in Parley's account when i posted that, though I'm sure his opinions are similar...
We on the Phoenix team have a seperate forum because it allows for easier bug tracking. XDA threads consist mainly of "Thank yous" so it seems, and you need to realize that we all have normal jobs and social lives. When we do get time to dedicate to XDA, it becomes very tedious and time consuming trying to sort through all the thank yous and trying to figure out which issues have already been addressed by fellow Phoenix users and which are still open.
PDC lets us bug track much more similarly to a piece of Helpdesk or Knowledgebase software, except the Forum basis allows for collaboration on solutions.
Most problems that get posted at PDC are ROM-specific, and not present on every ROM. If we find a fix that others could use back at XDA, we let the other chefs that we work with know and share the knowledge.
If that bothers you then I suppose your problem is actually with the advancement of ROM support and task management.
I'm behind whatever the Chef's feel they need to do and Travito is spot on with the ammount of work just to bypass thankyou or the monotomous problem that has been answered a million times......
Without the chefs here i would have a very dull phone, infact no i would have an n73
So to chefs do as you wish just produce the awesome ROMs you do!! And i wont make a new thread!! JK
Yeah um who cares? Private forums are good for cooking teams and anyone who wants to follow the ROM dev closer.
soulbandaid said:
To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.
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you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum
msd24200 said:
you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum
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why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
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I agree. Frankly, I used to follow XDA and loved it. But there are so many egotistical, immature, thread Nazis and other not so nice users, lot's of time is wasted reading their nonsense. Anyway, yesterday was the 1st day back after months and I was skeptical about the Phoenix team, but after reading this thread, I'm going to check them out for sure.
--G
F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
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DOES NOT AID IN "KAISER ROM DEVELOPMENT" enough said
While I haven't been on XDA as long as some other members, I have gone through the mammoth threads that are Dude's and Cyanogen's and its just flooded with spam or often un-useful information most of the time.
This is a development thread after all and for those running either experimental or unstable builds are beta-testing for everyone else. Now there's no harm in having a bit of chit-chat here and there to lighten things up but some issues seem to get lost amongst the ten's of posts just saying "Flashing now/issues after flashing a theme/etc".
They are experimental/unstable for a reason!
I was wondering though, if it would be beneficial to devs to have some sort of standardised form for bugs and issues. Yes I know we could probably use a wiki or support tickets offered on other sites, but generally many things get posted here on XDA first.
I was thinking of a simple list that users could copy and paste to make things easier to see at a glance and to improve on search hits. Something like this:
ROM Build:
Theme:
ROM Issue:
Issue Keywords:
Reproducible:
Wiped before install:
Re-installed/reflashed:
Logcat:
Searched for answer:
An example of a report as below...
ROM Build: Cyanogen 3.9.6
Theme: Stock
ROM Issue: Cannot run MyTracks (be specific as possible)
Issue Keywords: MyTracks ForceClose
Reproducible: Yes (put in steps)
Wiped before install: No
Re-installed/reflashed: Yes, re-installed MyTracks
Logcat: Attached/No
Searched for answer: Yes
It can be added to though so I'll leave it to you guys to offer up suggestions.
The "Issue Keywords" part should flag up easier during searches, so if you run a search for "Issue Keywords Mytracks Forceclose", technically speaking it should link to this thread.
What do you guys think? Its a longshot I know for most members to copy and paste before they reply but if it becomes a habit, maybe it will become easier for devs to track issues for themselves to prioritise or offer solutions.
FLASHING NOW
Kidding, I think a standardized form would be useful and I think any issue somone reports must have a logcat or it should be thrown out with the exception of phones that won't boot at all and a logcat can't be created. I think posts like "this don't work' are largely useless to developers.
lol I was reading through the Hero dev threads before and all I saw was one liners with FLASHING NOW/CAN'T WAIT/ROSIEEEE etc. While enthusiam is a fantastic thing, sadly more information is often needed to fix any issues that might pop up.
I don't expect, and neither should anyone else, a dev to read though 200+ pages of posts to only find that there are only a handful of issues that are actually ROM related and not solvable by other members with a little effort.
A general thread for a rom that's a little more open and a straight bug report thread would probably help all invovled maybe u can pm a few developers about this idea to see if there is any support for it.
Aso a moderator that can provide tight strict support of the bug thread to keep it on the striaght and narrow
I have suggested to the mods before about having a totally seperate section just for ROMs and that but it looks like it was debunked, along with having any new moderators for this place.
Which is a shame because a lot of threads and points do get lost amongst the often pointless posts that are made, which makes searching and reading them a chore.
I'm not sure what the moderator support is like for the Dream section, I've only seen Mikey being active in trying to establish any ground rules. Have offered my services though if required but will try to help out whenever I can.
I'll ask around though to see if devs would be interested in trying to standardise reports here on XDA and hopefully other members might follow suit before posting.
I really like this idea. It would be nice to have everyone on the same page. I would also like to see a feature where you HAVE to put your info in a sig. The hardest thing about helping people is lack of info. With this in place, everyone will be a lot happier to help then if you just said, "I have a problem" and expecting everyone to read your mind.
Good idea NeoBlade!
I second this idea.
Thanks! After all it just makes it easier for the people here, be it devs or helpful members, to diagnose and to figure out solutions when troubleshooting. Its the same process that I use when helping people with technical issues on computers - The more relevant info available, the easier it becomes to track.
Cuts out a lot of guesswork I find.
Enforcing it into your signature would be nice but from the looks of it, most people have put in the effort to display the latest info at least, not all though which can't be helped since its understandable.
At the end of the day, most of us are willing to help out others, as long as they put in a little effort too.
What about a bug tracker? Maybe not even something as formal as a bug tracker but something along those lines. We could set it up to force certain information before submitting a bug such as their current rom, a2sd setup, phone model, motherboard, etc. I am a web developer so if I get some extra time I could write something up pretty quick. Just a thought.
chuckhriczko said:
What about a bug tracker? Maybe not even something as formal as a bug tracker but something along those lines. We could set it up to force certain information before submitting a bug such as their current rom, a2sd setup, phone model, motherboard, etc. I am a web developer so if I get some extra time I could write something up pretty quick. Just a thought.
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most of the devs are using googlecode which has a bugtracker with it
There's a link to this in Cyanogen's Experimental thread
I think this is a great idea, so don't get me wrong, I just think it's more complicated than bug hunting.
A lot of what gets discussed sometimes isn't directly related to the ROM, but things like best swap methods and battery ussage do end up incorporated into the ROMs. Most people who post on these things do know what they're talking about and do make a contribution to the ROM, and other ROMs, too, and it necessarily stems from the discussion about the ROM, in my experience, most of the time.
In general, if I post, I try to address some sort of work around or solution to a problem that not everyone is having with the ROM. The fora aren't just for the ROM Devs, the rest of us read them, too, and get a lot out of them, despite the occaisional inanity.
If you go through the HTC Wizard ROM Forum, you'll see the same thing, and a ton more heated arguments. What happens as the ROMs progress, is that fewer bugs come up, and the fora get cleaned up right along with them.
What I might suggest is that people title their posts (perhaps be required to do so) with [Bug Report], [Request], [Solution], [Work around], [Comment], [Question], [Discussion], maybe [Misc.] to help sort through the parts of a forum. All of these parts are important enough, and mostly do contribute somehow to the results, which is a great ROM, but the process is people being in the discussion, and that's what's really going on. Wiktionary: forum I imagine if people did this, at least they would have to identify what it is that they're posting, which is where I see the problem. If people were required to think before they post by taking some sort of labelling action, they might second-guess themselves and save the keyboard for something more useful to others. At the least it would let anyone, devs included, filter.
It also might be handy if I could delete my own threads & posts that were errantly posted. We all have them somewhere. And people who post thier feelings rather than their cohesive, relevant thoughts will only be eradicated by educating the masses, so, pay your property taxes and find out what's going on with your local schools (we may be stuck for now, but there's always hope.).
Yeah there is an active bug tracker at googlecode already, but I can't really see many people actively taking the time to actually post there and fill in the relevant information.
I have no issue though with discussions in a thread as it adds character and can provide a friendly environment for people to help each other. More often than not, when people see others helping out, they would chime in too with a contribution.
I think Cyanogen though has killed off any compcache/linux swap discussions earlier on as he mentioned in his post that he didn't want to hear anymore of it And it has actually remained as so - There are plenty of such threads that exist already.
I agree though Janis with a structured standard title in their posts. It only takes a couple of seconds but can help people skim through what is banter and what issues might need looking at. I'll do so from here on it too (if only fast reply supports post titles!).
Would be nice if there was a notes/announcements section put up on certain sub-forums too outlining some form of post structure like what was mentioned. I'm more familiar with IPB/phpBB personally but I'm sure vBulletin supports it too.
Hi folks,
I've spent a few days looking over the forum and have to say. good work
There don’t seem to be many issues, everyone seems to be getting on in the spirit of XDA.
I'm a firm fan of ‘if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it’ so I'm not going to be flying in making huge changes or swapping things around. this is your forum I'm just here to help keep things nice. if anyone has any ideas of how to improve things in this area - (not XDA as a whole) please drop me a PM, and we’ll put it to a vote. if it’s a good idea I'll change it if i can or I'll push for the changes with the senior team.
While this may be a legacy forum it’s clear there is still a lot of interest and a lot of life in this device still keep up the work and we’ll keep the phone alive I want to start on the right foot so a FEW IMPORTANT REMINDERS
please take the time to read - and for regular users - re-read the forum rules. it’s a good thing to remind yourselves of how we work http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=341
All the rules are important but to focus on a few.
we are here to help and learn. people do make mistakes. I don’t like users being flamed for asking a question. I'd rather we educated and pointed people in the right way to help them for the future. it’s OK to say use search - it’s not OK to abuse people
I also don’t like people putting a lot of work into something and getting flamed either - a lot of the work posted is a work in progress - people share this out of the goodness of their heart and also so they can get positive comments on how to improve. Again it’s not OK to abuse people cos they shared a work in progress.
sharing work - many developers are happy to share their work with others and in some cases one persons work is used as a base by others. - If you want to change someones work and then release it as your own - ASK FOR PERMISSION FIRST AND THEN LINK TO THE ORIGINAL DEV IN YOU RELEASE!!!
don’t post or link to warez - they will be removed.
Please report any issues or concerns to me as soon as you can using the report button or by PM- I'll deal with them.
Thanks
Chris