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Android vs iPhone War

April 5th, 2011 by Andrew Greenfield
Today’s myth has brought up quite a stir in the community recently. The Android vs iPhone war is bringing a lot of people back to the Mac vs PC wars of the 90’s. So what’s the myth today? The ol’ “it’s one device vs a million” cover.
“Of course android has a greater market share. If I gave away a bunch of phones for free it’d sell better than the iPhone too even if they were crap. You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair. How many android phones are beating the iPhone. Zero. Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred that are so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work. Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone…” (goes on to make nerd jokes and the whole “all Android users still live with their mothers” thing)
It’s beautiful isn’t it? While yes, both of these parties have these people, the fact that the competition is so good that these people exist is great for business. While it’s easier to see competition helping in Android than iOS (only because Android is updated more frequently), both parties should be thankful for the other. Without this kind of competition our phones wouldn’t be half as good! Enough drooling over the free market…
“You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair.”
I see this comment a lot, and honestly, I’m really confused why the hard core Apple supporters continue to use this. Yes, iOS is only on one mobile device (technically more if you count the fact that the iPhone 3G is still being sold). Yes, it is true that if you include iPods and the iPad iOS probably has a greater user base than Android. But that’s not what this war is about (at least yet…Tablet wars are definitely in the future). This war is about which company can put more phones in people’s hands. We (as in the Android community) are not comparing a phone to an OS, we’re comparing a mobile OS to another mobile OS. It’s Apple’s choice to only sell one device. It’s a great thing for their bottom line and right on par with the company’s brilliant business strategy. However, the fact that Android phones are now selling faster than iOS phones (note, iOS phones, not “the iPhone”) means that the market is shifting to Android and away from iOS….Which brings me to my next point:
“Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred”
This is false, and precisely why market share is important. Think about it this way: You’re selling girl scout cookies. You have the option to sell to one neighborhood that is admittedly, much more prone to buying your cookies. Or you have the option to sell on a county level. Which would you pick? Anyone with an understanding of economics would pick the latter. The larger your market, the more opportunities you have to make money. This is why developers think Android will be the best to develop for. It’s the same thing Apple did to RIM. Why would anyone choose to make an app for Blackberry when they can make it for iOS and have an audience that’s many times larger. If you look at it from a third party point of view, those companies will back the OS that has the most users. It’s exactly what happened during Mac vs PC. Only now (with Apple’s impressive growth in Mac sales) are programs being developed for both (here’s to hoping Engineering software will soon be brought to my Macbook Pro!). It’s a vicious cycle. If you fall behind in market share companies stop developing for you. If they stop developing for you, you lose customers (market share). The cycle continues and continues. It’s what happened to Apple computers in the 90’s, it’s what’s happening to Palm and Blackberry now, and it’s what happened to the PSP in its early scraps against the DS. Do I think this will happen to iOS? Absolutely not. iOS is too good and has too large of a user base to be pushed out of existence. However, it should worry the iPhone crowd that as Android continues to dominate you may have to worry about whether Andoid apps will be ported to iOS instead of the other way around.
“…so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work”
There are two ways to answer this. First, I could make the point that most apps require 2.1 or higher, and 80% of Android users have at least 2.1. Secondly, I could bring up the notion that most of the people who REALLY care about their phone aren’t on the few that are running something under 2.x. The small share of Android users that are obsessed with their OS probably own the latest and greatest Android phone. Does my mom care that she has 2.1 on her phone? No. I don’t even think she knows what that is, let alone when she’ll be upgraded. The fact of the matter is is that the majority of the market won’t care if they have an older OS than the person sitting next to them as long as their phones work. Will older phones be useless eventually? Yeah, I can’t argue that the few people that are still running 1.5 are probably running into a lot of problems. However, the amount of people upset with their 1.5 phone aren’t even CLOSE to the people who have an iPhone 3G and are upset with how iOS 4 crippled their phone. It is important to note that not ALL iPhone 3G’s are slowed to a crawl with iOS 4, but the product was widespread enough that Apple is still offering fixes and updates to help out. 4.3 is MUCH better than 4.0, but a lot of 3G users still say that the problem is getting better, but not fixed (this only caught my attention because one of my good friends has the iPhone 3G problem and sent me this funny video to explain to me why she was praying that the iPhone 5 comes soon). I’m not pointing fingers, I’m pointing out that EVERY technology company has this problem; it’s just pointed out with Android more often because of how quickly it upgrades. Is it a “bigger problem” on Android than on iOS? Yeah. But it’s not half as bad as anti-Android enthusiast claim it to be, and whatever OS camp you reside in has the same problems.
“Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone.”
This statement is true. Apple makes a lot of money on their phone sales, Google makes next to nothing (if not nothing) on the their phone sales. However, unless your bottom line depends on Apple’s, this means nothing in this debate; but that’s for another time. The fact of the matter is is that these are just different approaches at making money. Apple’s business strategy is probably the best of any company out there right now; I can’t think of another company (except maybe Nintentdo) that is having more fun rolling around in their money. They make a lot of it. Google isn’t exactly hurting though. While Apple banks its earnings on the immediate sale, Google looks more long term (and even if you like Apple’s strategy better, you have to admit Google as a company knows what it’s doing…how often do you use Yahoo search?). They know if they put the device in your hands, you’ll buy apps, you’ll search, you’ll hit ads, you’ll use Google appliances, etc. Apple takes the “less devices, more money per” approach and Google takes the “more devices, less money per” approach. Both work in their own right. Apple has been doing it for years and they’ll continue to be immensely successful at it. They’ve never given a crap if Macs beat PCs in sales. They could be selling one Mac for every 400 PCs for all they care, as long as that one Mac is still pulling in as much money (and probably more) than the 400 PCs. Same with iOS. Apple users are so excited to have been the top dog in OS for once. They fail to realize that that’s not Apple’s business strategy. iOS will more than likely not be the most used OS in the mobile world at the end of the day, but who cares? Apple will still make a killing on the large market they still have. If you don’t believe me look at video game companies. Nintendo is the only company that makes money off selling its consoles. They make money on every DS and Wii they sell. They’ve been around for years, clearly their strategy works. Microsoft and Sony (Sony especially) take HUGE hits when they sell a console. Before costs were reduced, Sony took some $100 loss for every PS3 sold. They banked on making money once the device was in the consumers hands. They’d buy games and other services to negate that loss and eventually turn a profit. Both Sony and Microsoft are still around, so clearly their business strategy works. Just because you don’t agree with a business strategy doesn’t mean it isn’t successful. Tell either Apple or Google that they need to rethink their business strategy and they’ll walk away laughing.
Closing Thoughts
Anybody can take facts and spin them towards their preference. The original quote was taken from someone who took facts about Android/Apple and spun them towards Apple. I took the same facts and spun them towards Android. The fact of the matter is is that neither of these companies are in any danger of being phased out. Android has a lot of work to do before it truly passes iOS as the preferred OS, but at the same time iOS has a lot of catching up to do to be able to compete with the innovation of Android. This is how competition works. Now, as a consumer, sit back and reap the benefits; whichever device you prefer.
http://www.talkandroid.com/36011-debunking-the-sheep-part-3/

Awesome article, i have both the iphone and an android phone, xperia x10. im gonna post this article on my facebook page just cause this morning in my status i posted that i would use both and see which is user friendlier. Then came all the hate, but it really just comes down to preference. Ios and android are going to rule the mobile os for now and both will be succesful. The debate mostly comes from new android user and some old iphone users and how the newer version of android are actually as user friendly as an iphone. Iphone was on its own for a while but since the newer version of android, more and more people are as satisfied with the their android devices

AT LAST!Someone who speaks with reason on the matter!I don't care whether you prefer iOS or Android,I just care that you have a balanced opinion on the matter.It all comes down to personal preference.What do I care if the guy/gal next to me prefers a different OS than I do?Yeah,I'm one of the guys who use Ubuntu as their daily OS on my PC,so what?Does that make me better or worse than the guys who use Windows or Mac?No.Same with phones.
More people should read your article.From me you have a well earned thanks.

Nice article

.......or you can just remember the old saying "arguing on the internet is like special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded" , and do something better with your time ....
no offense at op , but the average fanboy is dumber than a rock and even worse with apple

Lawl no one cares for WP7? xD

I really love my Apple products, and that includes all sorts of things (even some screwdrivers, hats, pens, water bottles ...)
But my iPod touch 1g is running Android. Apple has dropped support for me with that product, and I figured I may as well do the same thing to them with it

Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App

Yes... sadly enough WP7 is done for in a few ears...

The argument is APPLES and ORANGE.......... or to put more succinctly a non-sequitor
Apple market approach is and has been always has been to market the image and sell the image " only apple is unique or the best, only the best people, etc."
This is a piggy backed approach from the IPOD basis, which capitalized on online music in a mp3 format. It was and is a successful. But,... they're approach still states that they sell you WHAT THEY think is pertinent and decide on what you need, then charge you retail plus 20% for it. It is and still remains a locked and closed system. Creating a image fervor much like when xbox 1st came out, ...long lines customer fights etc.......... 2-digit mob mentality.......... they are good at this .....and it shows.
Android, on the other hand was not created to be closed system since it was based on Linux, it was open source, and the effort was to see if the public would drive development as well as create the new market that would automatically follow...... in essence a novel experiment.......... The result speaks for itself. An open more stable platform that has been embraced around the world. People need to remember that the market is not USA or Europe, but the Entire World. And that, Android has taken over and will continue until the market share of the Iphone IOS will be that of the Mac to the Windows platform. A solid following but, a minority player.
THE DANGER,---- is if Android then is turned upside down by Google, who then figures we are all addicted so now pay up or no support.......... I personally do not think this will happen, BUT... then I don't trust any corporation at all and so, I never let my guard down.
Like I said different animals vying for the same market................

^_^
thank you for your objective approach.

Some (hopefully) interesting thoughts about Ipad versus Gtab

It seems everywhere I look while doing my g-tab research, this debate rages. And, just like abortion and the relative value of left wing versus right wing, most of the time the debate degenerates into name calling and general idiocy. I actually think it IS an interesting discussion to have.....and one with valuable points to be made on both sides. It is important for people to go into the decision of which product to buy with a full quiver of knowledge rather than buying something which doesn't meet their needs or wants. Whether we are talking about three hundred bucks or six hundred, it is not pocket change.
First and most out of character for me, I want to talk about the strengths of the ipad. It is, in typical Apple fashion, a beautiful, iconic, well designed gadget that makes gadget whores the world over salivate to get their paws on it. Despite the many negatives about a closed technosystem (which I will get into later) Apple's technosystem also provides a simplicity and elegance that is almost unmatched in the operating system universe (with the possible exception of Webos). When I am advising friends on what computer or gadget to buy, if money is not an object, I always say this: if you want to do ten things simply and elegantly, ios is a great choice. But if you want to do an eleventh thing, or any of the first ten thing in a different way, Apple won't let you.
Surprisingly, one of the arenas that Apple is really dominating is portable gaming. After years of being a PC gamer and scoffing at my Mac gamer friend with their pathetic game library, I thought that Android would at least be on par. Much to my shock, even Webos is a vastly superior platform for gaming when compared to Android. It is my opinion that Google and Nvidia need to address the sad dearth of good games ASAP if they have any hope of breaking into a race in which they are already a lap behind.
Finally, I will say that Apple has done a masterful job of building an absolutely rabid fan base. As an overarching company, it's frankly shocking the kind of product dedication they are able to inspire. A few years back when Apple laptop hard drives were failing at an alarming rate, my hard core Apple friends looked for ANY excuse to let the company off the hook. But they have worked VERY hard through marketing and mostly (minus Steve Jobs) fantastic public relationsto build that kind of relationship with the consumer. Android and it's various licensees need to develop an interface that is much more user friendly and accessable to the non technically minded public.
Now to my beloved Gtab. Clearly from a hardware perspective it is on par with, or arguably superior to, the ipad. What seems to be overlooked in these discussions over and over is that to compare the Gtab and the Ipad is essentially the same thing as comparing a Honda and a Lexus. A Honda will most likely last as long or longer than a Lexus, and run as well or better. But people who buy Lexus are willing to pay a tax on luxury and brand name. But the Lexus costs over twice as much, so ultimately comparing the two based on their merits is less valuable than asking what the owner wants from their purchase. Clearly the Gtab, clocking in at around half the price of the Ipad, is a far better bang for the buck. But if what the consumer wants is the brand name, cool factor, and the 'it just works' mentality, and they are willing to pay a premium for the 'privilege' of owning Apple, then an Ipad may very well be the right choice for them. However, I think that with VERY little
technical know how, the Gtab quickly becomes an obvious alternative. It obviously holds the advantage when it comes to the web (complete flash compatibility is a fairly huge advantage right now and could become a bigger one as people develop useful flash apps for business), and the open market is both an advantage and disadvantage. There is no quality control in the Android market, but there is also far more scope for creativity and innovation now, and depending on how Google etc play their cards, and most definitely in the future.
Obviously, cheap memory expandability is a massive advantage to the Gtab. Non- expandable devices, in this era of cheap flash memory, cannot be looked at as anything but simple greed. The same goes for proprietary ports and cables. Gtab has a clear advantage here with usb, micro usb, microsd, and the possibility of easy hdmi out in the future.
Android itself has major advantages and disadvantages. It is not nearly as intuitive or as easily picked up as Ios, but it has far greater room for quantum leaps forward. Ios, to avoid alienating it's core users, is forced to take a far more conservative, evolutionary approach. Android needs to use this to it's advantage by making bold, market changing leaps forward and continuing to undercut Apple on price point, rather than playing catch up and releasing expensive tablets and trying to compete with Apple at what they do best (I believe the Xoom was a fairly major miscalculation, but won't go into that now). Apple is at risk of falling into operating system complacency like Palm did in the early 2000s. Android should leap on innovation, and reward it well....swype is a fantastic example of this. I'm writing this on my Gtab with swype right now, and there is nothing in the virtual keyboard world that even comes close.
In closing, let me say that I choose Honda over Lexus. I choose an open technosphere where I can use technology as I wish. I love my Gtab and plan to use it for the foreseeable future...but I pray that Nvidia and Google get together and realize that an open system doesn't have to mean a system without a game plan. Nvidia needs to get on the stick and release a raft of games that show off the technology Tegra 2 can bring to the table. Android tablets, and specifically sub 300 tablets could be a real draw to young gamers as an alternative to the new DS and the forthcoming PSP IF they had a good library of possibilities. They need to continue to support those of us that have already jumped aboard. Make us be the missionaries of their coolness. Just in the Woot/Tigerdirect liquidation over 10,000 Gtabbers have been added to the ranks. That is NOT an insignificant number. They need to build as many IT/business friendly apps as humanly possible. Apple's insistance on doing things their way has left them extremely vulnerable to any companies that can offer a more business friendly solution. This and this alone is why RIM is still in business. If Viewsonic and all other licensees could get even a portion of the 18-25 portable game market AND get a portion of the 30-50 business market, they would be in an excellent position to take a bite out of the big Apple. Having said all this....I admire Apple. I admire their consistant refinement of already existing technology. They may only make evolutionary leaps, but damn they do it well. But as long as I can buy more product and more freedom for half the price, that's the way I'm walking.

I'll just say that I bought the gtablet for the family so that we could surf the web on a comfy couch. Web content includes flash. The ipad doesn't support flash.
The OS is irrelevant when you're surfing the web, so the choice is obvious.

What was the point of your thesis? Who and why would you go with any general consensus on any man made products these days especially when they are mostly made in China with the exception of the lexus Isn't that one of toyota's non-braking brands? Mostly people are swayed by emotional responses to what they feel they may be getting. It is sad to know so many are building their self esteem, self worth, value from having or owning innate objects including g tab. Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.

edirector said:
Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
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Funny story. So, I was sitting on the train other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
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I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.

goodintentions said:
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't ipad 2 has serious operable issues and economic standing in life has no correlation to tech toys. Who can't afford an iphone they are selling for $49 and you can get ipad at walmart. People utter such nonsense in reference to apple products. I paid $500 for my cell phone cash.
It boils down to a matter of choice. For myself I will own 2 or 3rd of these products none apple. I will pick up playbook next as soon as I see what the development community can do with it. My spouse offered to buy me an ipad not costing me a dime I said don't waste your money.

I agree and have said much the same thing since I bought my first Droid 1. I have since upgraded to a Droid X and the Gtab.
Apple is great, if you like living inside a tight little box. Android is for those who like to express themselves and push the limits.
Then I started some new classes and they give me a Macbook Pro. I must admit, the packaging was very nice, especially compared to my last HP (that is now trash because HP won't support it...) but the first thing I did was pull out my copy of Windows 7 and partition the hard drive. I might have to do some of my design work on the Mac partition, but the rest of my time is spent on a "normal" computer.

I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads. In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition. In fact, with the exception of the display (which I actually don't have issue with since I'm in landscape all the time anyway), I think the hardware is superior in every way to the ipad. The fact that Viewsonic managed to make a product compete on a level playing field with the top tablets in the market today for less than half the price is incredible and goes to show how much the manufacturers (especially Apple) are making off of consumers.
I do recommend ipads for my friends who aren't tech-savvy. As was said before, Apple products just work and you do have to respect that. The completely closed system in which they operate allows for total control and an unparalleled experience for the AVERAGE user. My Evo and my gTab are inoperable for some length of time about once a week because I won't stop messing with them. And Apple products do look sexy, in a man-purse gucci sunglasses kind of way.
Comparing iPads and gTabs as Honda and Lexus isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be a modded out Nissan Skyline GT-R with twin oversize turbos, nitrous, and a shake-your-neighbor-out-of-bed-to-watch-your-burnout tunable exhaust (That's the gTab) versus an out of the box Ferrari. Both are fast. Wicked fast. And both look sexy in different ways. The most important thing is that they both run a 1/4 mile in pretty much the same time. The Ferrari has a v12 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis from the factory, but the Skyline has more cupholders. The guy driving the Ferrari gets out of his ride at the local Starbucks and has every money-grubbing trophy wife drooling on it. The guy with the skyline has to reprogram his standalone ECU to back it out of the garage, but gets his hood shined by models for Turbonetics. The Skyline has a back seat.
The gTab is not a poor mans tablet. The gTab is a tablet for people who want to smoke that d-bag in the ferrari but are smart enough not to drop $120k on it. And comparing the gTab to the iPad isn't even worth doing. The hardware is too close to call, the benchmarks are inconclusive at best. What we should be doing is comparing end users of these products.

I would say both have their places. I love my gtab and believe it suits my needs and temperament to a tee. However, I am by training and inclination a tinkerer and I don't mind the occasional lockup or reboot as the price I pay for the ability to tinker. My wife and mother, on the other hand, would be seriously torqued if it happened to them on anything approaching a regular basis. Consequently, they both have iPads and not gTabs.
I am the antithesis of an apple fanboy (my wife gets pissed because I constantly refer to her iPhone as an iSuck) but not really for any reason other than what I perceive as the inherent arrogance of The Steve and his minions. And I dislike being dictated to. But other than my philosophical issues with apple I really can't say too much negative about the iPad, other than I think it's ridiculous that they have neither SD card support or, and I consider this borderline criminal neglect, USB ports. For people like my technophobic mother though, they are just what the doctor ordered. The iPad is the only device we've ever found that will consistently allow her to access the web and email without turning her off or intimidating her.
On the other hand, I think the android tablet market has a lot of promise but is trying hard to strangle itself at birth with the pricing structures the manufacturers keep adopting. That's all I will say about that for now (though I did rant about it here: http://www.swamphole.org/content/tablet-computing-101). If the vendors can get that under control and Google doesn't piss too many people off with their to-date refusal to release Honeycomb, I think these tablets have a very bright future. Right now I don't think any of them are stable enough for anybody but the people who are tech savvy and/or don't want an iPad for whatever reason. For those folks that are willing to put in the effort I think devices like the gTab can be made into far superior tablets than any iPad.

Thanks, Macros764, for your post. This us (non-Apple users) versus them (Apple users) feeling has existed for ages now and it's good of you to remind us that there are 2 almost entirely different markets (and possibly mentalities) at work here. Another person noticed what you hinted at in your post (the Honda vs Lexus distinction) and commented on it long ago.
I'm talking about Neal Stephenson's interesting essay, "In the Beginning... Was the Command line", which you can search for on Google (as a new poster, I can't add a direct link here).
His essay written in 1999 was about Linux, Windows and Apple users, but you can replace Linux with Android everywhere in that essay and it will still all ring true.
I like Mr. Stephenson's terms for the different kinds of users. Android users are like H. G. Wells's Morlocks--they're the ones who like to tinker with stuff and tend to know how those things work. Apple users have always been the Eloi. They don't care how things work as long as it does (and it looks good).
I tend to be a Morlock (and I suspect a lot of the users on this forum are too, to varying degrees), but some days, I wish I could be an Eloi.
Enjoy reading the essay. Be warned that in true Stephenson style, it is a very long piece.

An enjoyable and thoughtful piece - better than the usual flames and rants that the word Apple usually provokes. Never one to miss an opportunity to add my two cents, here I go. To begin with I have many years experience - I was in IT before the PC was born so I've had a chance to watch the whole thing from start to finish. There was a time when there was just DOS and every computer ran it - branded or clone. There was another alternative CP/M and I used it but it died by natural selection. I think there was even Unix around at that point but it was specialized. Later there were a lot of different things to choose from Windows, Apple, Commodore and lots of other things that have disappeared. Windows evolved into the os for business (after IBM shot itself in the head with OS2) and Mac became the os for graphic arts. It kind of stayed that way for a long time and Apple really was a niche market. Linux appeared but it was brutal in those days. Everything was manual setup, X sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and you had no idea how things would work on your particular box. I have been playing with linux since those early days but ultimately in my business environment windows was the os of choice. Apple remained something that "the print guys" used. In my mind the displacement of the walkman by the ipod marked the shift of Apple's fortunes. Whether it was the cash or the public perception of Apple or both they suddenly became a much bigger player. They clearly "got" the marketing thing and their closed garden approach did make them very palatable for the masses who were willing to pay extra to be safe from the blue screen of death, endless virus attacks and debacles like Vista. Linux has continued trudging but the continued fragmentation still prevents it from really getting into the game. Ubuntu is the best hope for Linux in my opinion. They seem to have figured out that mainstream users don't need 10 different word processors in each distribution - just one good one that works something like Word that people are used to. I think that if Ubuntu continues the way it is going it will see more and more adoption over time especially as Windows becomes more and more clunky in the effort to squeeze cash out of increasingly savy users. The problem for Ubuntu is that it may be too late.
Increasingly, I find that the tablet idea that I once scorned is probably the direction that things will go in for many users. Executives where I work want to know if they can have a tablet - not a laptop to take with them. People at home are happy to curl up on the couch with a tablet to surf the web, read email and interact with friends. Apple knows this because they have had the experience with the ipod, the iphone and now the ipad. Their closed world gives them a huge advantage because they don't have to worry if google is going to release the source code for them or if Invidia will bother to write drivers for them. They control it all.
So, what's a g-tabber to do. Well we can't make Google release Honeycomb, we can't force Invidia to write drivers and it doesn't seem like we can even get Viewsonic to do much of anything. I worry that Android will fragment the way Linux did and all the competing versions will just sap the strength of the whole.
That said - I've got Vegan Ginger on my tablet, I've added Clemsyns kernel with CIFS support so I can access my files on my server. I've picked and chosen apps, 99% of them free so I can do almost everything on my g-tab that I can on my PC. It is fast, cool, and completely under my control. I keep pushing the envelope to see what else I can do with it. If it never evolves beyond where it is right now it will still be the best $300 I've spent on gadgets. The developer support in this forum is enviable and I know that I haven't done or learned everything about the g-tab yet. So my g-tab may not be the expensive fancy sports car ripping down the highway that the ipad is but man, when I go off roading and mud bogging with my g-tab, I have a blast! So choose your vehicle for you activities and don't try and second guess yourself or anyone else. Life is short - be happy!

austontatious said:
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it implies any such thing. It does, however, define your social status. It's like what school you went to for college. For some, the only reason they went to school A, which costs $60,000 a year, is because they're following the family tradition and the father is some lawyer or doctor. For others, a school like Iowa State or U. of I. looks just as good but costs only a fraction of what school A charges.
The ipad and the xoom really were designed for people to show off. Everything about them looks, exterior wise, looks good and classy. The gtab, for lack of a better word, is ugly looking. Here is what Robert has to say about the difference between an android device like the gtab and something more high class like the xoom or the ipad.
Android is like having an old beat-up Chevy - not much to look at at first, but after some tweaking under the hood, a good paint job and redesigning the interior, you have a great car that not only runs and looks good, but is designed for you because you made it that way. iOS is like a really nice looking car that came off the assembly line - looks nice, runs great and all the car shops have accessories for it, but there's nothing unique about it. Looks like everyone else's car. So it depends on what you want.
In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet a lot of people on this forum have specifically expressed that if they had the money they'd buy the ipad or xoom.
In fact, I am convinced that if the ipad, xoom, and gtab all cost the same, nobody would even consider buying the gtab... except for me. I like to hunt down non-mainstream items to own. I don't like my stuff to look like everyone else's.

I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.

Pexcer said:
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both an iPad2 and a Gtablet. The iPad2 is very nice, and does what it does very well. And, it prints to the local laser printer. Streams netflix, etc.
You have to jailbreak it to get access to the stripped down MacOS that is iOS, with shell, etc, which I'm not doing - did that with an iPod Touch a few years ago, and although its fun it really doesn't add much now that the app store has soaked up most developers.
iPad2 = just works. If it does what you want, you're golden. If you're willing to risk a $600 device, you can jailbreak it and gain a level of tinkering that is about 20% of the tinkering you can do in Android on the GTablet.
So, yeah - GTablet is way more fun to tinker with, swapping in new kernels, playing with various roms... Android is still a lot rougher as well, and more open (you can drop in stuff *not* from a walled garden) but for the average person who just wants a pad to couch surf, read the news at breakfast, do their email, read books, or play games... iPad2 is going to do it. It's going to do it as well as a laptop, and a lot more conveniently, without the hassle of virus checking or other crap that most people would just as soon not deal with.
I feel like the "status symbol" argument is a strawman. If you're just a regular person, not into coding, tinkering, etc... not into more than surfing and email and maybe some games, the iPad is going to be as good as a laptop, and about as much if not less in cost. This is why the iPad is eating into laptop sales, and killed the netbook market.
Can Android get there and compete? Unless Honeycomb is way WAY better than Gingerbread, I think they're at least a year if not two away from parity with the current iPad2 just on software. Again, I'm not considering myself (or likely anyone who would even visit xda-developers) as the iPad target market. But there are way more people in the target market than are here

I have both. I bought the G tab back in January knowing full well the issues with it. It was my intention to mod it like most here but for one thing or another haven't done it yet. I do like customizing main screen anyway I like to, with widgets and such, something the IPad can't do. The fact that I can convert movies on my pc and copy by USB drive is great. Photo viewing, music, surfing the net, audio books are great on it.
I decided I really wanted the IPad for my business which has many more and better apps suited for it. I can take pictures of job sites , keep track of estimates and invoicing with some very good apps.*
The whole Mac cult is creepy but I knew about that. The display is very good, no denying. Form factor, great.
I am keeping both of them.

[Amateur Editorial] Next Generation of Phones will be the last for many

It is hard to argue that phones have not plateaued in terms of functionality. The iPhone 4S is simply an incremental upgrade to the iPhone 4. The next generation of Android phones are pushing pocket-able screen sizes to the limit. There is only so much you can do with a certain form factor, and this upcoming generation of phones is it. Applications run entirely smoothly, batteries are lasting entire days of moderate to heavy use, everything from a TV to a Vacuum Cleaner can interact with your phone through it's plethora of radios. And screens are so crisp that the human eye cannot even detect the pixels, perfect for watching full length, high definition movies on-the-go.
Two-year contracts sound like an eternity since the rapidly improving operating systems of Apple, Android, and Windows. However, there is an exponential decline of innovation between iterations of firmware. Donut to Eclair. HUGE. Eclair to Froyo. Big. Froyo to Gingerbread. Bug fixes and optimizations. Gingerbread to ICS. Superficial. What could possibly be next for a phone? Two years will surprisingly be too short for all but the nerdiest and niche interest groups. It's already been more than a year and a half with my Samsung Vibrant and other than tech-lust, there is no genuine reason for me to upgrade.
The next step for phones really isn't about phones at all. The next step is to systematically destroy every other gadget you currently own. The first to go? Laptops. The Atrix began this process, but it was for the most part a broken and overpriced experience. That will change as phones are becoming exponentially more powerful. One could argue that gaming laptops will still exist. Sure, for a couple more years. Kal-El, Wayne, Logan, Stark, Nvidia's superhero line-up of gpu/cpu chips. Stark being 100x more powerful than Tegra 2! One Hundred. These are theoretical, but the potential is staggering. Compounded with cloud-assisted browsing from Amazon Silk or Opera Mobile? Laptops are dead. Long Live Laptop Docks.
Next to go are dedicated tablets. Operating systems such as Android's Ice Cream Sandwich will unify the tablet and phone experience. ASUS wants to capitalize on this with their Padfone. Why buy a full price phone and tablet when you can buy just a phone and the tablet as an accessory for half the price? For myself, I would come home and plop my phone into the tablet. When I go out, I remove it. No more syncing. It's all consolidated. Not to mention when my tablet husk is home, it'll be charging all day. I won't even have to charge my phone or change my battery before I couch surf. Ah, laziness.
Last to go are game consoles. In fact, casual gaming is already on the horizon of being completely overrun by mobile devices. Portable gaming devices such as the Vita and 3DS are probably near the last of their kind. Nvidia's Stark will most certainly be able to support Full Stereoscopic HD output, if a processor before it cannot. This is my most speculative moment, but I can picture a future where your phone gets plugged into an HDMI/HDD Dock connected to your TV and you download most of the data for rented video games and stream the more volatile aspects such as sound effects, textures, and geometry. Discs will still exist due to their practicality, ownership, and offline use. Services like On-live will also become more prevalent as bandwidth costs decline. Okay, maybe consoles will be around for quite some time still, but their days are numbered.
In the meantime, phones will even make the phone part obsolete. Minute plans will be optional since not only is VoIP much cheaper, it's so much more clear and crisp. T-Mobile and Walmart are already headed down this direction. GPSs? Already dead. External webcams? Gone. Digital Cameras? Nope. External Hard drives? Cloud and SDXC will cover the masses.
Unless you are an IT or Content Creation professional, this next generation of phone will literally handle anything that you will ever need or want in a stand-alone phone device. For most of you, this is it. If you want a social networking, casual gaming, high quality photo-taking, VoIP/Webcam chatting, Global positioning, Netflix streaming, Hulu watching, cloud storing/syncing Super-phone, the wait is finally over. This is your year. This is not to say that phones will continue improving in performance and incremental updates, but there is literally NO more room for groundbreaking innovation within this particular form factor, only the hybridization and replacing of every other gadget that you own.
Oh, except for one feature I want. Built in noise-canceling support for headphones, like the Sony X-Series.

While this might be true, never forget that the platforms you use and love evolve. And that might get users to upgrade after all!
Take facebook for example. Right now, video calling is only available via Desktop operating systems. But I'm pretty sure that over the next few years this will come to mobile, meaning that your handset must be strong enough to handle it smoothly.
I don't think that even the average consumers will last with their 2011/12 handsets "forever".

This was a very good editorial.
I must say, that before every generation of new phones, people think "this is it, this will replace my pc/psp/etc...". While I do believe, that huge things are coming, I don't think this is THE generation yet.
We're getting more power, more apps, better screens, but we still lack (in my opinion) a solid OS that could replace Windows in every day use, and - perhaps more importantly - the average consumer lacks the mentality, that everything he wants done, can be done on his smartphone.
Also, to your list of killed devices, I would add "MP3 players"

good post and interesting read.
But isn't the next upgrade in generation of phones always been about replacing some other technology?
cameras, mp3 player, pda, operating system (android, ios) etc..
And all the while replacing these other things, the cell phone gets more efficient at it.

@smirny stuff like facebook specific video calling i would consider as incremental and non-essential. with upcoming generation, google talk is a viable option for video chat, plus there are many services such a Qik and Fring. I doubt (hope) that people aren't holding out on their phone purchase for facebook video. I couldn't imagine video chatting with an acquaintance from high school. All of your closest (video worthy) friends probably have another way of contacting you than facebook. I know that was just an example, but with quad-core devices on the horizon, video chat is covered.
@darktori i think that any OS that could replace Windows entirely would have to be on a different form factor than a phone. there will never be a way for a smartphone to do a better job creating a document than a laptop. that's where the hybridization comes in. my article discusses this is the end of the stand-alone smartphone road in terms of innovation. anything meant to replace windows in everyday use will break the phone form factor, whether it is tablet hybrids or laptop docks. those who want a smartphone, this is the year, because the only reason in the future to upgrade is to get this extra functionality. and yes, i did forget mp3 players
@dpmace yes it is. however, the phone has reached it's limit in its own form factor. everything from here on out will need a different form factor. to replace laptops, they need a dock, to replace game consoles, they need a controller built in (xperia play), to replace tablets, they need to become one. Phones themselves are maxxed out in terms what the can do as stand-alone devices. So this upcoming generation, the generation right before the mass hybridization of devices is the best time to buy a stand-alone smartphone for a long period of time. the upgrades afterwards will be superflous to those who don't need a laptop or tablet. their phones are already fast and capable of handling everything they need them to. they have an 8MP camera, why do they need a 16? they have a good phone GPS, why do they need a phone with a better one? they have a good GPU, why do they need a stronger one if they don't plan on outputting it to a TV? etc

Very nice and well thought out editorial piece. I'd have to disagree though, there's no way this is the best we're getting.
Regarding the iPhone 4S: Apple have always used incremental updates to get the most money possible from their users, and have mostly gotten away with it until now, because the earlier iPhones were missing really basic features. The iPhone 3G was big because it had 3G (what phone didn't even then?). The 3GS mostly upgraded the camera and I think the processor? The 4 was the only one that fundamentally changed anything in my honest opinion.
Software I'll mostly agree on, but I think ICS serves a great purpose of making android look better to the masses, standing out, and doing a much better job with multi-tasking.
Hardware is the big one. They still have a long way to go, in many ways.
Cameras are never likely to replace a dedicated camera, for the simple fact of space. A camera only gets so much space within the phone, and for every advance made in cameras that gets used on a phone, that same advance could be used on dedicated cameras, as well as extra ones that require more space.
Batteries are a big one, it's the reason you'll see so many posts on every phone's section of these forums, asking about battery life, and with kernels and mods aimed at giving extra battery life. It's why "battery extenders"can be downloaded so much in the market. If a phone came out next year, or the year after, where they concentrated their efforts on a great battery, and gave significantly more battery life, I'd definitely buy it.
I'll admit that the phones are reaching limits on what they've been concentrating on for now (screen size and processor/RAM) but they'll just expand in other ways. There's no way the phone manufacturers are just going to pump out similar phones and hope the customer prefers theirs to the one next to it on the shelf because of brand. There's still plenty of new ideas coming out every day, and they can add to the phone's functionality, not just superficially (like 3D). There's NFC, flexible screens (which on its own could bring about a lot of new ideas), added durability, and I'm sure a lot of things we haven't heard of.

Did you ever hear the quote that says "Technology has advanced more in the past thirty years than in the previous two thousand..."? That is 100% true and there is no sign of slowing down. Things that you can't imagine today can be possible within years. So I just can't agree to the fact that you are basically stating that besides a few tweaks and improvements, technology has come to a complete halt.

Excellent editorial. Love all your points except with gaming consoles becoming extinct. I find this to be untrue and impossible in the sense that phones, computers, Hard drives, or whatever, the concept of them storing your games, e.g. PS3 games which are at most 50gb (note gaming data size will grow too since it is proportional to graphics), is impractical. In the sense that you can only "hold so much", and our "so much" capacity isn't nearly close to our desire capacity. So gaming consoles will stay.
Unless you are suggesting we develop a different evolutionary storage medium or sort of micro usb which stores the game and the phone simply reads off the device and plays. Now that is plausible. The only problem there is will the phones withstand the heat exerted? As we all know in proportional to the graphic intensity of the game so will the amount of power demanded by the GPU or porcessor, which in turn will be expended as heat. So considering it will take a lot of power, it will give a "lot" of heat. Story short, our phones will not withstand the heat and melt.

Kailkti said:
Excellent editorial. Love all your points except with gaming consoles becoming extinct. I find this to be untrue and impossible in the sense that phones, computers, Hard drives, or whatever, the concept of them storing your games, e.g. PS3 games which are at most 50gb (note gaming data size will grow too since it is proportional to graphics), is impractical. In the sense that you can only "hold so much", and our "so much" capacity isn't nearly close to our desire capacity. So gaming consoles will stay.
Unless you are suggesting we develop a different evolutionary storage medium or sort of micro usb which stores the game and the phone simply reads off the device and plays. Now that is plausible. The only problem there is will the phones withstand the heat exerted? As we all know in proportional to the graphic intensity of the game so will the amount of power demanded by the GPU or porcessor, which in turn will be expended as heat. So considering it will take a lot of power, it will give a "lot" of heat. Story short, our phones will not withstand the heat and melt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The future of gaming lies with Onlive. Your device will just be a thin client, awaiting video from the Onlive servers that will do the heavy lifting for you. I envision a gaming world where you use a bluetooth controller to play a game that's streamed to your TV in HD resolution via your smartphone.
We have the technology to do this already, it's just not the kind of gaming experience hardcore gamers will accept, but give the technology a couple more years to develop.

Oh right. Forgot about OnLive, prolly cuz i haven't heard about it since the release. But you are right it is a promising feature. the only problem is it requires a steady data connection, which sadly, we know not everyone is blessed with. But soon enough the entire world will modernize to have data being able to flow to every where so that won't be a problem, the problem will be in the case of system failure, both data provider and server, which I am sure happens a lot.

Have you not seen Iron Man 2? I want a phone that is just a sheet of glass and is fully integrate-able with everything around it on the fly. When that comes out, I think the innovation has ceased.
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If any of you guys play Shadowrun 4th edition, you'll know that the ultimate is a display in your glasses, goggles, contact lenses, or even cybernetic implants in your eyes.
Pocketability be gone!

vadyr56 said:
Have you not seen Iron Man 2? I want a phone that is just a sheet of glass and is fully integrate-able with everything around it on the fly. When that comes out, I think the innovation has ceased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or remember when he was designing the suit, everything was virtual and he could touch it.
One day we shall have that!! Then maybe screen sizes will be obsolete.

vadyr56 said:
Have you not seen Iron Man 2? I want a phone that is just a sheet of glass and is fully integrate-able with everything around it on the fly. When that comes out, I think the innovation has ceased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Un What about graphene tech? Samsungs going to be releasing foldable and bendable phones. The first one using this tech is apparently due next year.

hungry81 said:
Un What about graphene tech? Samsungs going to be releasing foldable and bendable phones. The first one using this tech is apparently due next year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be cool too, how about a phone that can be used in a "normal" size mode (say around 4.5") and then can unfold into a 20" tablet!

Good first try. Not everyone willing to put down their thoughts in a form of long article.
However there are some fundamental flaw:
bdroc said:
The next step for phones really isn't about phones at all. The next step is to systematically destroy every other gadget you currently own. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure you understand the word "systematically" and "destroy". I simply don't see phones "destroying" EVERY other gadget, especially the following few you mentioned.
bdroc said:
The first to go? Laptops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, at least for a good decade. People been saying this to desktops when laptops became very popular. Now? Desktops are still being made and sold. Nowhere near "been destroyed".
And this paragraph gets ridiculous when you say cellphone SoC can replace dedicated GPU. You are saying essentially play Crysis (PC Game, 2008) on a cellphone, which is NEVER going to happen.
Once you understand how powerful a dedicated GPU is, you will realize how stupid it is to make such claim.
bdroc said:
Next to go are dedicated tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is purely based on user habits. My cousins have both iphones and ipads. I have a G2x and a laptop. Unless you can make sure a 4 inch phone screen does not exhaust your eyes with extended use, then you can never make such claim.
bdroc said:
Last to go are game consoles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is getting more ridiculous. Also mentioned above the "power of a dedicated GPU", cellphones are NEVER to replace game consoles.
I personally still prefer those gadgets you mentioned as separate gadgets and I am not a minority.
So let's calm down with the Android fanboyish hardware craze, and face the reality.

I don't think it's safe to say that phones have reached feature-completeness, although i agree that developers are going to have to start thinking in dimensions other than "what can we do without having to make any serious changes to the system".
When i look at the Android platform, especially, i see huge amounts of possibility. For example, your phone could basically obsolete a huge amount of what we encounter in our daily lives. Bus/train pass? Nope, NFC with a phone app. (These will still exist, of course, but for those with phones there won't be any interaction with them.) Credit cards, likewise, will be gone. Ultimately we'll be going to all-data, eliminating the phone/text/etc nonsense. Or at least, someone will. Probably not the US. That will become more useful in the long term, though.
But i think there's going to be more than just replacing other things with a more unified device.
For example, in the future your phone could ping your home PC and wake it up even if it was sleeping. Then you would be able to "log in" just like a normal user and get your full PC desktop on your phone. This isn't replacing your PC, it's using your phone as an additional way to access it--much like your mouse/keyboard/monitor! You could, for example, do an "OnLive" sort of thing but with your phone. This is actually already possible, but it's a pain to set up and we don't have phones that are strong enough/batteries that last long enough/data connections big enough to truly make it happen.
Or for another possibility, Google Goggles is something that already exists... but in the future it will operate in real time. Hold your phone up and you'll get all the information from Goggles overlaid on top of the image from the camera. You could take it a step further, too, and have a digital "message board" or comment system, where people can write things and attach them to real world objects which will then be displayed for others. (As someone suggested: really you want this sort of tech in your glasses, or something like that, but it will likely go through phones first.)
Heck, you could set that as your phone's wallpaper and not even have to open an app.
The "Tony Stark phone" could be a reality, although not at those precise dimensions. You could have a phone with no "UI" (although Stark's phone has a pretty interesting-looking UI on it if you examine it) but just have the Goggles-enhanced real world overlay on it. To interact with it you could issue voice commands--or touch it to bring up a UI.
Your phone could control your car in a tremendously "what the 1950s thought the future would look like" sort of way: get into the car, pull the phone out, then say "Car, take me to my house". Then sit back and relax, because the car will drive itself there. (Technically you don't even need the phone for that, but hey...)
This is all sort of crazy dreaming, but it's still not even "lateral thinking"--it's just extending things your phone can already do.

Why does the iPhone still grab so much attention?

I've never seen anyone explain why the iPhone continues to be the hand that rocks the cradle. I've heard reports in the last few months showing that over 80% of new phones shipped were Android devices. Also cited was that Android had 51% of the market, while AOS had 41%. I think those stats were from 2Q 2014.
So why does the world shake when they announce their new OS, the iPhone 6, and the same e-pay system that Google has had in place for a while? Either the stats aren't truly accurate of the entire market or it's just more of the same media hype & fascination with iAnything.
Can anyone confidently say if Android does own the market and why the iPhone phenomenon continues?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app

mjjcb said:
I've never seen anyone explain why the iPhone continues to be the hand that rocks the cradle. I've heard reports in the last few months showing that over 80% of new phones shipped were Android devices. Also cited was that Android had 51% of the market, while AOS had 41%. I think those stats were from 2Q 2014.
So why does the world shake when they announce their new OS, the iPhone 6, and the same e-pay system that Google has had in place for a while? Either the stats aren't truly accurate of the entire market or it's just more of the same media hype & fascination with iAnything.
Can anyone confidently say if Android does own the market and why the iPhone phenomenon continues?
Sent from my SPH-L710 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone, but it was the first one that implemented many things well for the common user.
A lot of the success of the iPhone can be traced to the success and popularity of the iPod before it, which was similarly not the first device of its kind, but a huge improvement over previous devices. People loved their iPods, so they also bought iPhones.
Because so many people adopted the iPhone early, many have stuck with it over the years. Brand loyalty is a very powerful thing, both to the customers and the companies. There's also the issue of familiarity. Although they all use Android, a person going from Motorola to Samsung to HTC could easily be confused by the different layouts, settings, and features used by different manufacturers.
Then you can also add the fact that these people have become "invested" in iOS, buying apps/games/iTunes etc. Of course, even someone who has spent a lot of money, say, $100 over the years on apps/games, could save way more than that by switching to a much less expensive Android phone and re-buying everything, but people don't think like that.
The iPhone is also a bit of a status symbol. Cool/rich/hip people often buy iPhones Personally, I think too much has been made of attributing the "status symbol" effect to iPhone's success, but it's still a factor, and one that can't be ignored (just like having an iPod vs something else).
While people like us might hate iOS and Apple for our various reasons, I still can't deny that an iPhone is a perfectly capable device that'd do pretty much everything I'd need a phone to. Of course, there's a lot of "advanced" things we like to do, but most people don't need to do those things, and the iPhone suffices in that regard, and does it fairly simply. And there's plenty of people that want just that.
I hope I don't sound like an apologist. I hate iOS, and hate Apple even more. But I can understand why some people like iPhones, and why the brand sees so much success.

No doubt, everything you said was true. The point I was making was that from what I've heard, android has greater market share and even more dominance of new device starts. With that, why are businesses jumping to appease iPhone owners? I understand there will be a huge uptake of wireless payment devices to accommodate the iPhone, for example. Likewise, the media behaves like they are introducing a whole new technology.
I always wondered why Apple stuck with smaller devices while Android was gaining market share with bigger screens. It will be interesting to see what the larger iPhone 6 does to the trend lines. It is a beautiful phone, but I wouldn't think for one minute about buying one.
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Is it (money)wise to upgrade to the new Apple iPhone 13(Pro)?

Hi all,
Since the release of the new Apple 13 (Pro) device, the main question is: do the new features of this new Apple iPhone justify to upgrade from an Apple 11 or Apple 12? In a lot of reviews the new Apple 13 is mainly seen as an/compared to the Apple 12S with minor added features. What are the new features of the new iPhone 13 (Pro)?
1. Better camera's compared to it's predecessors
2. More storage
3. A bit faster processor
4. Faster loading and a bit greater battery
But the question still remains, is it worth to upgrade?
IMPO, this is not the case when you own, as I do, the Apple Pro 12 Max. It's only worth to upgrade when you are a die-hard photographer. Then you will enjoy and appreciate the added new features in the Apple iPhone 13, which are somewhat disappointing regarding the costs. Also the update from iOS 14.8 to iOS 15 do not lead to big improvements, which is Apple unworthy unfortunately. Also the use of the lightning cable has become obsolete as of today. Apple has to switch to the, at this very moment, generally accepted USB C cable. A severe omission. What are your experciences and considerations to buy the new Apple iPhone? Am I right or wrong?
kindest regards, kuzibri

Whether the iPhone are pricey or not, totally depends on what weights more on your value scale.
iPhone is simple, easy to use (ridiculously easy), and very powerful in many aspects.
Apple managed to benefit from this combination.
Of course there's a lot of cons and pros, but there's something you need to know, if you were to buy a phone from Apple, Apple has one line of phones, and they are the company's flagship products.
You know how much flagship devices cost, the difference lays in what each OS offers. I personally don't like Apple products. So much underestimates.

I also disliked Apple products due to their stuberness to let us choose our own home display, etc. I acknowledged though that they made beautiful devices (my wife is an Apple addict). But at a certain moment, Apple released the watch 6 of which I was stunned by it's possibilities compared to the Fitbit Versa 2. I relealized that when I wanted to buy this watch, I also needed to buy an iPhone. Not so an interesting idea, UNTILL Apple released iOS 14.5, with which it was possible to achieve what I wanted, e.g. compose my own home display. This was the moment to make the switch for me and after one year now, I totally do not miss Android at all. Using the Apple now, I noticed a few things in comparison with Android: 1. It never crashes, 2. Updates, in contrast to Android, are not only on a very regular basis, but devices are also supported for a long time. Now iOS 15 is released, which still works on an iPhone 6S. This is not the case with the support of any of the Android devices. Besides that, altough the iPhones are not cheap, the Samsung top devices are also vey expensive. My home display is now exactly the same as I had on my Android devices. Regards kuzibri

I picked up my second new Note 10+, 256gb, 12gb ram for $800 a week ago.
Anything without a SD card slot is dead to me.
A dual drive 1.25tb handheld PC... hell yeah.
Apples run very good, are very easy to use, and bore me to tears. I loathe them; they are overpriced and use CCP sweat cities to manufacture them. The bright icons and pastels drive me insane; Debbie would love them.
Samsung's are the most customizable stock phones on the planet. Unfortunately the 10+ and Android 10 were Samsung's and Android's best releases to date respectively. Which is why I went with a 2nd 10+, sad but true.
It's ok because even after 2 years the 10+ is just plain fun to use; fast, stable, excellent build Q with one of the best displays there is even today. No high refresh rates but better color rendering than even some newer flagship phones. The display has perfectly square corners, none of that horrible CRT roundness here. 7mm thick, even in a good case it's thin. Pics don't do it justice. The spen nests until needed as a remote shutter release or for Smart Capture which is great to have.
No way I would upgrade the Apple, but I'm extremely biased and hate pastels

blackhawk said:
I picked up my second new Note 10+, 256gb, 12gb ram for $800 a week ago.
Anything without a SD card slot is dead to me.
A dual drive 1.25tb handheld PC... hell yeah.
Apples run very good, are very easy to use, and bore me to tears. I loathe them; they are overpriced and use CCP sweat cities to manufacture them. The bright icons and pastels drive me insane; Debbie would love them.
Samsung's are the most customizable stock phones on the planet. Unfortunately the 10+ and Android 10 were Samsung's and Android's best releases to date respectively. Which is why I went with a 2nd 10+, sad but true.
It's ok because even after 2 years the 10+ is just plain fun to use; fast, stable, excellent build Q with one of the best displays there is even today. No high refresh rates but better color rendering than even some newer flagship phones. The display has perfectly square corners, none of that horrible CRT roundness here. 7mm thick, even in a good case it's thin. Pics don't do it justice. The spen nests until needed as a remote shutter release or for Smart Capture which is great to have.
No way I would upgrade the Apple, but I'm extremely biased and hate pastels
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Hi, very glad that I finally stirred up the discussion between Android and Apple users. As already mentioned, used to be a very satisfied Android user, but since Apple introduced the iOS 14, there is no difference anymore between an Android and Apple device. You're now able to make your own Home Screen, just like in Android. And let's be honest, which company gives updates so long to old devices as Apple. The most recent Apple iOS is 15 and runs on an Apple 6S. No Android device supports that long their devices. All in all, I do agree with earlier responders that Apple used to be boring, but that is now just ancient history since the release of iOS 14.5 and certainly now iOS15. Best regards, kuzibri

I haven't played with an Apple in 6 years... so there's that. That icon pack burns my eyes and display out though. Apple is going in unsavory directions on multiple fronts now. No SD card support alone though blows them out of the water.
As for updates once I have firmware that's fast, stable and fulfilling it's mission I leave it be. I rarely update and rarely have issues, that's not a coincidence. I may update my older 10+ running on 9 to 10, the same as the new one but that will be the last update.
Security simply isn't an issue. My current way outdated load is 16 months old, still fast and stable. No breaches.
All my critical data is redundantly backed up, a forced reload is the worst that could happen. Down time 2 hours, 6 if I need to repopulate the SD card. Any major firmware upgrade would cause far more downtime and worse could permanently degrade performance or capabilities.
I see no real advantage to updating an old device with a bloated OS it's hardware wasn't designed to handle. OS's tend to get larger, not smaller and are designed/optimized with the current hardware in use. So that 3, 5 whatever years support doesn't impress me in the least.
Tough choices if you are even considering one platform let alone two. I probably would wait to latter in 2022, even 2023. My next new purchase will be probably 2023 or latter. This year is a bust for Samsung and likely 2022. Apple may or may not be faring as badly, but there are supply chain issues worldwide. China is also having power infrastructure issues as well as a growing political storm both of their own making. I expect especially the latter to grow worse not better in the next 3 years.

kuzibri said:
Hi, very glad that I finally stirred up the discussion between Android and Apple users. As already mentioned, used to be a very satisfied Android user, but since Apple introduced the iOS 14, there is no difference anymore between an Android and Apple device. You're now able to make your own Home Screen, just like in Android. And let's be honest, which company gives updates so long to old devices as Apple. The most recent Apple iOS is 15 and runs on an Apple 6S. No Android device supports that long their devices. All in all, I do agree with earlier responders that Apple used to be boring, but that is now just ancient history since the release of iOS 14.5 and certainly now iOS15. Best regards, kuzibri
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I don't mean to be rude, I'm sorry, but .. do you really want to compare the customisation level between Apple & Android?
Apple is never close to a customisable OS, it has always been late to the party. Not just the home screen, there's a lot of features took it years to implement, though they were on Android for a long.
I used iPhone 11 Pro Max for about a week. I don't know, but I never got relieved about it. Leaving all the customisation behind, and step into a kindergarten?
One thing I hated was Apple's underestimation, they act & think on your behalf. If they thought a regular user don't need to manage files, they'll not integrate any support for file manager.
That's exactly how their security system works, if they thought something can risk the device, they don't build a firewall, they just eliminate the target. A very good example is the recent Visa payment hacking issue, where a warning was sent to remove the Visa as a payment method.
I see this very ridiculous, it gets the job done, but in a non-professional way.
In the other hand, Android does not think on your behalf, it gives you what an iPhone lacks, an option. A vast range of options, and if something doesn't suit you, you can change it. Or simply, build it.
I think I may use an iPhone when I'm dying or something. At least I won't have anything else to do but socialising.

Hi, "@Mohamedkam000: do you really want to compare the customisation level between Apple & Android?". No that is not my purpose. My point is that untill recentrly there were two incompatible worlds, e.g. the Android world vs the Apple one. Now, due to the the release of iOs 14.5 Apple offers somewhat more possibilities to customize your device. Untill recently I belonged to the Android world and my motto was always "Apple is for dummies", although I was also always under the impression of the build quality of the devices, which is beyond doubt. Since it's possible to customize your iPhone, it has become easier, certainly if you just like me want the Apple watch but not the iPhone, to make the switch to Apple. There is now more or less an "in-between" world. That's my point, no more or less. Kind regards, kuzibri
BTW: let's be honest, the best OS for mobile devices that even existed was Windows Mobile, which was as versatile as it could be. I owned an HTC HD2 with windows mobile, android and apple on one phone and all working perfect.

kuzibri said:
Hi, "@Mohamedkam000: do you really want to compare the customisation level between Apple & Android?". No that is not my purpose. My point is that untill recentrly there were two incompatible worlds, e.g. the Android world vs the Apple one. Now, due to the the release of iOs 14.5 Apple offers somewhat more possibilities to customize your device. Untill recently I belonged to the Android world and my motto was always "Apple is for dummies", although I was also always under the impression of the build quality of the devices, which is beyond doubt. Since it's possible to customize your iPhone, it has become easier, certainly if you just like me want the Apple watch but not the iPhone, to make the switch to Apple. There is now more or less an "in-between" world. That's my point, no more or less. Kind regards, kuzibri
BTW: let's be honest, the best OS for mobile devices that even existed was Windows Mobile, which was as versatile as it could be. I owned an HTC HD2 with windows mobile, android and apple on one phone and all working perfect.
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I can go ahead and bring the pros and cons of iOS, but that's a long fight. So I'm gonna stick into the reasons you're providing to justify iPhone.
kuzibri said:
due to the the release of iOs 14.5 Apple offers somewhat more possibilities to customize your device
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I don't think you ever tried custom ROMs on Android phones. CyanogenMod? What about MIUI custom ROMs of 2014? How about the famous LineageOS?
Okay let go of the systems, how about Xposed? Ever used it? Ever used Dr. Ketan's ROMs? I'm asking to see if you had any experience in deep customisation.
Okay, do you know that you can change the home screen launcher on Android? You can change icons? You can use themes? Not just a wallpaper, a full theme.
If you know that, I wonder how can you even think about saying the iPhone is comparable to the customisation level on Android.
kuzibri said:
"Apple is for dummies"
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The company does literally acknowledge this phrase. And they are right to assume that. But, they are profiting from their right assumption.
Apple treats people like babies, people don't need the complications of programming and themes and customisation and other stuff. People just need to pay and use the limited things Apple offers.
kuzibri said:
want the Apple watch but not the iPhone
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Safety features like Fall Detection, Emergency SOS, and high and low heart rate notifications make Apple Watch great for older family members, even if they don't own an iPhone.
Calling, texting, and location sharing provide an easy way to stay connected with the family. Where I live, no one cares about smart watches, so I can't speak about it.
One last thing:-
iPhone has been released earlier than Android, it was revolutionary back then, and as you know, first impressions has a very huge impact on the customer's preference.
I have a relative that is using an iPhone for appearances, but his actual primary phone is an Android. It simply helps him a lot in his work, for he don't need a laptop to manage files or something.

@Mohamedkam000 said: I don't think you ever tried custom ROMs on Android phones. CyanogenMod? What about MIUI custom ROMs of 2014? How about the famous LineageOS?" Yes in my Android time I have used a lot of custom ROM's, like f.i. CyanogenMod, Artemis Rom, etc. So I'm familiar to customizations. To state that the iWatch is only for older family members is IMPO at least shortsighted. It's by far the best smartwatch available at this very moment (except for battery life). My sole purpose is to bring the Android and Apple world somewhat closer together instead of the current "War of the worlds". Both make beautiful devices with it'own pros and cons. Kind regards kuzibri

kuzibri said:
@Mohamedkam000 said: I don't think you ever tried custom ROMs on Android phones. CyanogenMod? What about MIUI custom ROMs of 2014? How about the famous LineageOS?" Yes in my Android time I have used a lot of custom ROM's, like f.i. CyanogenMod, Artemis Rom, etc. So I'm familiar to customizations. To state that the iWatch is only for older family members is IMPO at least shortsighted. It's by far the best smartwatch available at this very moment (except for battery life). My sole purpose is to bring the Android and Apple world somewhat closer together instead of the current "War of the worlds". Both make beautiful devices with it'own pros and cons. Kind regards kuzibri
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Unless Apple changes its ecosystem of which it does not allow its devices to work well with other rival products, there's no way the two worlds could join.

Hi @Mohamedkam000 , regarding this "Unless Apple changes its ecosystem of which it does not allow its devices to work well with other rival products, there's no way the two worlds could join." If we're holding on to these points of view, indeed the two worlds will never join. It's a matter of giving and taking. F.i. you ask Apple to change their ecosystem in order to work well with each other. But, what do yo have in return for Apple? That's the main problem for this dead end. As I see it, Apple has a lot of knowledge about securing the privacy of their users, while Android suffers once and a while from mal/ransomware due to the opensource of the OS. See what I mean? Regards, kuzibri
BTW: this does not mean that I'm able on my own to solve that problem not are you, but if we cooperate in this line, we might be able to convince some leading persons of both sides to do something about this.
BTW2: Also see this regarding customizations regarding icons on an iPhone: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/customizations-on-the-apple-iphone.4342639/. It's only an example of many other apps.

kuzibri said:
Hi @Mohamedkam000 , regarding this "Unless Apple changes its ecosystem of which it does not allow its devices to work well with other rival products, there's no way the two worlds could join." If we're holding on to these points of view, indeed the two worlds will never join. It's a matter of giving and taking. F.i. you ask Apple to change their ecosystem in order to work well with each other. But, what do yo have in return for Apple? That's the main problem for this dead end. As I see it, Apple has a lot of knowledge about securing the privacy of their users, while Android suffers once and a while from mal/ransomware due to the opensource of the OS. See what I mean? Regards, kuzibri
BTW: this does not mean that I'm able on my own to solve that problem not are you, but if we cooperate in this line, we might be able to convince some leading persons of both sides to do something about this.
BTW2: Also see this regarding customizations regarding icons on an iPhone: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/customizations-on-the-apple-iphone.4342639/. It's only an example of many other apps.
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iPhone is safer than Android, but not more secure. For a device that receives so many patches for vulnerabilities, it doesn't seem to be better than Android.
I mean .. I've never heard of an essay alerting Android users to remove their Visa from the device. Android does fix the vulnerability. Apple does remove the reason the vulnerability is their in the first place.
Android is used by many, many people around the world, it is a very attractive target for hackers, of course it'll get some attacks. But, most of them does exploit the negligence of the phone owner. Like the latest report of malware-infected apps.
Example: Samsung has allowed iOS devices to connect to her Watch products for a long, maybe sometimes there's some missing features, but that's because it is created for Samsung devices.
On the other hand, Apple smartwatch does not allow any Android device to pair with it, it simply refuses to pair. If it was really a give-and-take, then Apple will take and not give.

Hi @Mohamedkam000 , regarding this: "On the other hand, Apple smartwatch does not allow any Android device to pair with it, it simply refuses to pair. If it was really a give-and-take, then Apple will take and not give.", see this video:
. It's not flawless, but it's possible.
Pairing Android watches to an iPhone is also not very easy and has it's disadvantages: https://www.lifewire.com/pairing-android-wearables-with-the-iphone-3875746. Regards kuzibri

kuzibri said:
Hi @Mohamedkam000 , regarding this: "On the other hand, Apple smartwatch does not allow any Android device to pair with it, it simply refuses to pair. If it was really a give-and-take, then Apple will take and not give.", see this video:
. It's not flawless, but it's possible.
Pairing Android watches to an iPhone is also not very easy and has it's disadvantages: https://www.lifewire.com/pairing-android-wearables-with-the-iphone-3875746. Regards kuzibri
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I thought we were talking about what is official, and what can be done without using back-door. Hacks happen due to an existing restriction, iPhone does not need to hack anything to connect to Samsung Watch, it is allowed to. Sometimes with limited features, and you know why.
I know there is Jailbreak on iPhone, too. But have you thought about the word itself? Jail? Break? iPhone is a Jail? Like .. I've never seen a company that makes choices on behalf of their customers like Apple do. It'll probably take them years to, for example, add another user-prefered customisation features.

Mohamedkam000 said:
I thought we were talking about what is official, and what can be done without using back-door. Hacks happen due to an existing restriction, iPhone does not need to hack anything to connect to Samsung Watch, it is allowed to. Sometimes with limited features, and you know why.
I know there is Jailbreak on iPhone, too. But have you thought about the word itself? Jail? Break? iPhone is a Jail? Like .. I've never seen a company that makes choices on behalf of their customers like Apple do. It'll probably take them years to, for example, add another user-prefered customisation features.
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I just replied to your remark that Apple does not allow to pair with Android Smartwatches at all, no more or less. The only Smartwatch I know that supports both Android and, in a bit minor fashion, Apple's iOS, are the Fitbit devices due to their own Fitbit OS. Maybe in the near future Google Smartwatches are able of paring to Apple due to the fact that Google bought Fitbit.

Depending on what factors more heavily on your value scale, you can decide whether the iPhone is expensive or not. The iPhone is straightforward, really simple to operate, and extremely powerful in many ways. Apple was successful in gaining from this combo.
There are undoubtedly many advantages and disadvantages, but if you were to get an Apple phone, you should be aware that the business only produces one line of phones, which are its flagship models.
The pricing of flagship devices is well known; the differences are in the features that each OS provides. Apple items don't appeal to me personally. Much is understated. But I had spent a lot of money to buy it.