Related
I'm looking for beta testers for a new App2SD implementation that does not require your MicroSD card to be partitioned which is potentially unsafe and can result in a loss of your data. If you'd like to test this new implementation before it's release here on XDA shoot me an email at [email protected] with what firmware and version you're using.
More information will be released after I get a few positive beta tests out of the way.
loopback device, eh?
I tried that a while back but never could get the loopback driver to load early enough in the boot process reliably.
Hope you have better luck than I did.
As [email protected] pointed out to me a while ago, this is not a good idea for security reasons. If your loopback file sits on the FAT partition, it is accessible by all of the apps, it can be read, overwritten and deleted by a rogue app bypassing the entire android security model. If this is what you intend to do, it's probably not "safer".
Hey, shot you an email. Ready to try it out. But only for beta.
Hit me up, I have no apps to lose.
But security? Idk just let me know whats up.
what happens when you mount the SD card to your computer?
I'd like to try it, but i don't yet have a class6 sd card. Is that necessary?
i'd be willing to give this a shot. I have no data to lose as well.
southsko said:
what happens when you mount the SD card to your computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true. Won't all your apps disappear when you mount the SD?
This smells fishy not many app developers with 1 post can this be someone testing their new exploit/virus?No offense to original poster im just sayin....???
Edit:Sorry to OP clearly not a virus,and good luck on getting it stable I will gladly donate to your cause partitioning is a pain!
don't be a jackass, many people have had great ideas and decided to come to XDA to share them. just because you are a complete idiot who can't program does not mean that the OP is too.
@@OP
you are playing with fire my dear friend. i don't think that mounting your apps on the FAT32 partition is a good idea at all. not only because it would allow any program to access and write without asking android permission first, but because it would allow people to mount the SDcard and steal paid apps even easier. i beg of you please rethink your idea
I imagine the phone would be crashing when the phone is mounted to the computer. lol. just kidding. =]
tubaking182 said:
don't be a jackass, many people have had great ideas and decided to come to XDA to share them. just because you are a complete idiot who can't program does not mean that the OP is too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF?Just came back to edit my post and put that its for real cause like I should have done first I found this http://noderat.com/loop2sd/.But as for your insults who the hell are you?How the f**k do you know what I can or can not do?I was posting in the first place to start trying be more active in the forums no reason for you to be a **** anyways,I was tryin to help people not get what I thought may have been a virus was that really that bad?
i'm not sure that is 100% true. when i mount my phone(apps2sd) my phone decides to mount the ext2 partion and the FAT32 partition, i am using ubuntu so my computer is able to read the partition, but my phone doesn't crash(i've yet to try running an app while mounted though)
Android can acces the sdcard while mounted.
Try terminal emulator.
crotalusfreak said:
This smells fishy not many app developers with 1 post can this be someone testing their new exploit/virus?No offense to original poster im just sayin....???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, take it from someone who has many posts and 15 years of unix experience, it is a bad idea.
Most of the devs here had this same idea, but as I mention in my previous post, this is opening yourself up to many bad security issues. To all those who answer, "I have no data to lose", that's fine as a beta tester. But what's the point in beta testing something that cannot be safely used by anyone who does have data (or apps) to lose?
I should point out to those who perhaps do not realize some the consequences of my original post, that it is not just a potential data loss problem, but a potential arbitrary code execution vulnerability. If an application manages to replace the loopback file with a new loopback file, it could inject altered common applications. If this succeeds, it means that previously trusted applications which have been granted privileges (or root using the various su apps) at install time, could be replaced with trojan versions which can have complete control over your system... steal your passwords... reflash your bootloader and literally install a permanent trojan... brick your phone... <insert other scary things besides data loss here>.
It's your phone, do what you want. I just figured that I would re-post that this not a new idea, but one that has been rejected by those of us with unix experience who realize the consequences. If you are just messing around, go ahead, it's not likely to hurt your phone. But, as a general method to build upon and be depended on, this should not have a future. If this becomes common practice, it is highly likely that exploits will be written to take advantage of this vulnerability.
So, if you are asking yourself if something is fishy, yes something is: it's a logical idea which seems great on the surface, but it has an unfortunate flaw.
Note: I am not suggesting malicious intent on the OP's part, just that they may not have thought of the consequences of suggesting this as a common method to do apps2sd. And if the OP (or someone else) is able to point out a method to avoid the things I warn against I will happily retract my statements (if I agree that this method would indeed work) since this method has some obvious benefits. However sadly, I think that is highly unlikely.
maxisma said:
Android can acces the sdcard while mounted.
Try terminal emulator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it can't. It can only access the empty mountpoint.
If you want to do this, there IS a way to make it work SAFELY....
Find the functions that control sdcard mounting and unmounting and FIX it so that it will mount an ext2 first partition. Then forget about the whole loopback thing as thats not going to do anyone any good... If you do it like this, then unionfs it, then unmounting the sdcard should safely vanish the apps that are stored on the card (leaving the internally stored apps), might crash the launcher, but that'll restart immediately and won't even error out.
A second step in the right direction would be to find the place where programs are detected from, which currently looks in /data/app, /data/app-private, /system/app, so it can clearly handle loading software from multiple locations -- add in a new path. Or maybe link app-private to /sdcard... A little more challenging would be to allow it look in multiple locations for thing that are ALL currently in /data/data and /data/dalvik-cache.
And then when its done, submit a patch for the source.
Wow what a response. Here's a few key bulletpoints:
I'm not a forum poster, not the kinda person for it but I have been on XDA Dream since I got my pre-launch G1 as a CSR.
There are potential security flaws with the current ext2 method of a2sd, and bypassing root to mount the ext2 partition is possible.
a2sd is not stable in any format, so it's a use at your own risk until android improves kinda deal.
I'm not cool enough to write a virus, but thank you for the ego boost
Anybody using a third-party firmware is not safe nor secure. If you're reading this forum you're not safe nor secure. The idea of homebrew roms is to add extra features that are not in Android to begin with and with that comes security risks. No ROM is ever perfect but I'd trust a Google or T-Mobile rom with my security before any homebrew-anything.So yes it's use at your own risk
This has the same results for mounting on a PC as MarcusMaximus's a2sd.sh
This doesn't really make it any easier to steal paid apps, it's always been easy and always will be but this doesn't change it.
If you guys have other questions shoot me an email, like I said I don't really do much forum-posting (never had much of anything to say, maybe this'll change all that)
[email protected]
JakeEv said:
I'd like to try it, but i don't yet have a class6 sd card. Is that necessary?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The faster the better but I've done it with the stock card that came in the G1 as well as a Class 6.
id try it since i can not get apps2sd to work.
[email protected]
using JF 1.51
I was thinking that dual booting on a single device would be a really great thing. A huge step.
Why we cannot do it?
Cannot we "emulate" partitions of the internal memory on the sdcard and then create a modified spl to boot from sdcard?
I was thinking that it is possible to make the sdcard working like internal memory..
Is it so difficult?
blackgin said:
I was thinking that dual booting on a single device would be a really great thing. A huge step.
Why we cannot do it?
Cannot we "emulate" partitions of the internal memory on the sdcard and then create a modified spl to boot from sdcard?
I was thinking that it is possible to make the sdcard working like internal memory..
Is it so difficult?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this would be a good idea too. have a stable boot partition, then on the second boot have our "testing" partition.
Is this even possible?
Whether or not this is possible, I don't know.
But kinda related, I would like to see a bootloader that made an "image" of the entire phone to sdcard AND would also restore the entire "image" of the phone.
Why?
It would give us an easy way to test out different roms!
You could have your stable build for regular day-to-day use, you could also "image" any other rom you install, then you could switch back and forth without the need for a computer to restore using Fastboot. Using this method, you could "image" any number of builds you wouldn't to try.
There may be a way this could be done right now, I don't know. I haven't found out how. If it's already an option, someone please point me in the right direction!
It would be very difficult cause you would have to find another OS that isn't linux based. Even with a bootloader all the files will be knocked off from the previous flash because everything in these builds are pretty much in the root folder. The OS runs on these references and if you change them the OS will not run. You would have to rework the whole OS to get this to work
Someone delete me
argh xda is so slow
It would be very difficult cause you would have to find another OS that isn't linux based. Even with a bootloader all the files will be knocked off from the previous flash because everything in these builds are pretty much in the root folder. The OS runs on these references and if you change them the OS will not run. You would have to rework the whole OS to get this to work
Booting off the sdcard could be possible but would be pointless to do.
Everytime you mount the sdcard to the computer it would crash the phone. Also, There's not really enough internal space to dual boot. 1 decent ROM barely fits on as it is.
blueheeler said:
Whether or not this is possible, I don't know.
But kinda related, I would like to see a bootloader that made an "image" of the entire phone to sdcard AND would also restore the entire "image" of the phone.
Why?
It would give us an easy way to test out different roms!
You could have your stable build for regular day-to-day use, you could also "image" any other rom you install, then you could switch back and forth without the need for a computer to restore using Fastboot. Using this method, you could "image" any number of builds you wouldn't to try.
There may be a way this could be done right now, I don't know. I haven't found out how. If it's already an option, someone please point me in the right direction!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cyanogen mentioned he was looking into this to try implement it into his recovery image. I don't think anyone's been able to restore a complete nandroid backup outside of fastboot...yet. However people are working on it. I think it's doable.
Meltus said:
Booting off the sdcard could be possible but would be pointless to do.
Everytime you mount the sdcard to the computer it would crash the phone. Also, There's not really enough internal space to dual boot. 1 decent ROM barely fits on as it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe, maybe not. A second or third EXT partition on the sd card could possibly be used for a dual/tri boot enviornment. Only the FAT32 portion gets mounted when you mount through your phone. And there would be virtually no difference when mounting through ADB. Now would be a good time for those interested in persuing this notion to have a look at the data2sd thread. Sounds very possible to me.
overground said:
Maybe, maybe not. A second or third EXT partition on the sd card could possibly be used for a dual/tri boot enviornment. Only the FAT32 portion gets mounted when you mount through your phone. And there would be virtually no difference when mounting through ADB. Now would be a good time for those interested in persuing this notion to have a look at the data2sd thread. Sounds very possible to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, i'm pretty sure all partitions get mounted, they just don't show up on windows.
on linux they all appear for me when i mount the phone.
also, sorry about the triple post, dunno wtf happened there.
Debain As Primarly OS
What Ive Been wishing for is someone to make the Dream Boot straight to Debian, No android running in the background.
Then we could boot into a debian with g1 drivers (if open source) and have gpu accl. x11.
Then maybe dual-booting android.
Im willing to try to get a debian img to boot on my g1 if someone wants to tell me where I would start to even try to attempt it.
lolz
Booting straight to Debian would be cool, except there is really no use for it on our G1's. We are best off running after loading Android, although I'm sure one day we could just boot Debian. What would the point of Debian be on our G1's? I'm running Deb5 on my Dell Mini that has a 9" inch screen and can barely see text.... how in the world would this become useful on a 3" screen???
just my £0.02
there is an old saying in my country. "if you don't believe it can work, then it won't for you". that holds so true for development. yes you will make mistakes on the way. heck i'm on my fourth G1 so far (and i suspect there will be more to come!) I love this phone, and i love the fact that we as a community can build such amazing things as the hero rom for the device.
what would we have done if the first person had said the wheel was impossible? or if the first person had said that fire was impossible. or (shock horror) electricity? or television? or telephone? or GPS? or the internet?
all of those were impossible until someone worked out how to do it.
dual boot would be pheasably posible, as the device is primeraly a computer first, and then a phone second. it boots a linux kernel from the bootloader (if i am correct in my understanding) so all we would need to do is create a bootloader with a choice in it, and then direct the phone to boot a second partition from the SD card.
the phone does mount all partitions - but only if the OS understands all partitions (test it for yourself - if you have windows and apps2sd mount the partitions and then run an app from the card it still works. but it does not under linux).
to answer the what would be the point questions, what would be the point in not doing it? surely development for a device like this is all about trying stuff, and then if it doesn't work not doing the same thing again.
i believe that a second OS would boot quite comfortably on a decent SD card. not that i have this working or anything. to make the screen readable, you just use a lower resolution (320x480). i would probably not want a full-blown GUI linux anyway, what i would want from a dual-boot OS would be a working command-line debian with FULL hardware access - allowing me to really use the phone as a fully-functioning remote terminal for my server.
i recon, though, that one thing that would be absolutely amazing is being able to have a fully-portable totally reliable XDA-Developers OS on my phone.
so, why do we not just try as much as we can to get this working? how do we start?
milestone.it said:
just my £0.02
.....
so, why do we not just try as much as we can to get this working? how do we start?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just hack the spl and flash it, but be cautionous as hell
Okay, I dont claim to know alot but I'll share my thoughts anyway
When you mount the SD all partitions get mounted, if you go into disk management in windows you can see the 'Unknown' partition if you have an ext2 partition.
Secondly, we don't really 'boot' debian, it just mounts an image file on your SD card that contains the debian binaries. As I understand it there is no reason these binaries couldn't be included in android (like busybox).
Thirdly, do we really want debian? What we need is a very light OS, android is the perfect base, take away all the gloss and its linux underneath. I love the idea of having repositories and being able to apt-get and even develop on the device.
Lastly, we're forgettign why android is such a good platform, the reason android is useful is because of the Dalvik VM, it's what allows us to make portable apps that will work on any android phone. I seriously doubt everyday users will be interested enough to learn to compile source on their phone. I've worked programming games for mobiles in J2ME and it was horrible, there was barely any portability between manufacturers, i believe android will be alot better adn from what i've seen (with people porting from other droid devices) this seems to hold true. It will be interesting to see if Android gets bloated with manufacturer specific API's like J2ME.
Also I'll just throw this out there... I'm not a fan of being tied to google, yes google helped along the way, but its not 'google android', its android. Wasn't it strange hoe Gmail worked fine, but the email app didnt? (K9 is perfect though!)
hi guys, i'm not at all a developer of any kind, i suck even at web design, but here's my thoughts expanding on the whole "what if the wheel didn't work" scenario
inventions are created by the need to do something, we need to get from A to B faster, lets make a car. we want to entertain our families in the evening, Hey look, TV. i need to tel my wife to get some milk while she's at the shop, Voila, Mobile Phone.
Basicaly the point i'm trying to make is, if somebody finds a NEED for dual boot on android, then so be it, it shall be done, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but if something is needed, then something shall come from it. we develop technology when we need to do something faster, easier, or just plain do it.
if somebody decides they NEED dual boot, i'm pretty sure they will figure out how to do it, either that or ask haykuro for some tips and alot of help, but i think he's still too busy with regular life at the minute, i'm not so sure, all i know is he's definately a legend, and maybe will want a piece of dual-boot pie
So who is the great man who want to try to do this? ;D
I offer my help, if it could be useful..
re: dual booting
would it be blasphemous to want to try out winmo 6.5 or 7 on these?
personally, i'd love to see WM on here. mainly, just so we know it's possible.
People are always slating Windows but, personally, i don't see whats wrong with it (Linux is my primary OS and always will be ). It would be nice to have say WM for work and Android for play
any news on this? I would really like to run a hero rom one day and then cupcake the next while not losing my settings...
At the android-platform group, we've been hashing out a scheme for adding in official apps-to-sd support to AOSP. We have a couple of google engineers following along/helping out and are now at a state where the initial testing implementation (we're using an incremental development approach) steps are defined in a fairly simple manner and we are ready to start at it from an actual implementation details/start coding perspective.
The actual thread is located here: http://groups.google.com/group/android-platform/browse_thread/thread/bf0709c157451cd9
Basically, if implemented, it will do the following;
1) totally obsolete current hacker apps2sd approaches by allowing actual sdcard removal from device.
2) ultimately ship with devices stock (when in a state where it is easy to use, stable, and at least as secure for non-root users as internal storage currently is).
3) keep application data on the same device as the actual application with no side-effects (like internal apps being broken while waiting for second partition to mount).
4) allow MULTIPLE sdcards containing apps to be swapped on the same device.
5) allow sdcard containing apps to be swapped between DIFFERENT devices.
Note: 4 and 5 are not in the initial implementation, first proof of concept and working system, then enhancement with additional features. 4 and 5 are not requirements for inclusion in AOSP, but they are cool features that ultimately should be implemented.
What we need:
Several good developers, web storage w/source/patch management, etc.
Anyone interested, please read the thread to get an idea of the current state of thought, and please don't pollute that thread with nonsense. There is a current state of organization, and though not set in stone, it should be considered as NOT open for major architectural changes (i.e., the google engineers don't have any major problems with the proposal that we can't work through). Minor glitches and implementation details will be handled along the way. If you must pollute a thread with nonsense, use this one.
Really? Nobody AT ALL is interested?
This is the *ONE* major feature missing from AOSP!
Id PM twistedumbrella and cyanogen and shafty
JAC would prolly be interested but hes been busy with personal stuff i guess?
Just keep bumping this thread to keep it at the top. this needs to be done, and is long overdue on android...
It's a must
I'm sorry that I'm not a developer. Good speed!
I really don't think a2sd is a good solution at all (I've been following the discussion at android groups), rather, I believe the lack of an a2sd solution will eventually lead to device manufacturers to increase the amount of internal storage available on the device for applications (this is what this project is all about, isn't it, not enough storage for apps?) like Samsung did with it's Galaxy.
We shouldn't assume that a device is going to be used a particular way because then we'll run into problems. We shouldn't assume that an user will want to have their device used that particular way, be it partitioned or with a custom, secure filesystem stored in the SD. How do we explain that they'll lose some of their sdcard to app storage? If we make it automatic, how do we allow the user to disable it if they do not want it? How do we make it if an user wants to have one SD card with apps on it and another one without them?
Again I believe we should let the demand for more storage drive the evolution for the next android devices instead of just making it work and have manufacturers ignore the real need for increased internal storage.
I disagree with it not being a good solution. Technology is always advancing, but people can't always follow suit with what is the latest. Be it financials or whatever, Having this as an option will allow older hardware to run more efficiently, Bring costs down for manufacturers and give everyone more options.
@Jubeh, All the questions you raised I believe could be addressed, Have a new settings menu and let them choose. If they select it, it will give it pop up saying "x amount of space will be reserved on your SD card for app storage".
And with AOSP, Android is not just a mobile phone os anymore, It is a mobile platform. Imagine if you buy and download apps on your phone, You save them to your SD card because of this suggested add-in. Now you also own a media tablet that runs android, For example something with a bigger screen usually used for movies and gaming, Now if we had this you could put your sd card in that device and have all your apps like that. I think that would be an amazing feature for android.
I can think of big issues being encryption, piracy seems like it would be easy to accomplish with something like this, but again this should still be addressed and at least attempted to make available. It would be a huge step for the android platform. My 2 and a 1/2 cents worth
I dont think its a bad idea at all...
Jubeh while i agree with your ideas, we definitely need to get more on board memory. But things like apps, and even most cache's shouldnt hinder or take up precious phone storage. I mean seriously, are we hoping for gigs in the near future? Probably not, lol. But the apps2sd is something we can and should change now, to help bring on future ideas.
And what about those already locked into their devices, or where purchasing a newer improved version isnt feasable? Its hard to rationalize a new smart phone every year, even though we all do it, lol. But some bought the g1 hoping to not have to purchase a new device for multiple years, dont they deserve some kind of back compatablity as well?
Whether it should or should not be implemented is not open to debate. The objective is to actually IMPLEMENT it -- in a manner that meets the stability and security requirements of AOSP. One way or another, community needs WILL implement this system, problem is that the current implementations are just crazy HACKS --- unstable, unreliable, etc. As someone who WILL be installing applications to sdcard, *I* want the system to actually WORK PROPERLY, and I'm sure that not only most everyone else (with VERY VERY few exceptions...) does.
Also, the fact that anyone (jubeh) would bring up those completely retarded points about "assumptions regarding use cases" proves in no uncertain terms that they didn't read the thread linked to (even if they did make themselves look completely retarded by replying in it).
In other words jubeh: If you don't read before you reply, you will make yourself look like an a$$. Now run along.
Oh, and what did I say about keeping the NONSENSE out of that thread? Really... you need to learn to READ.
lbcoder, I have to hand it to you. You killed your project quicker than anybody else possibly could have. While many users wouldn't necessarily agree with what jubeh said, he was raising what he considered were valid points in a fairly reasonable manner. Instead of pointing out that you had already worked on those points and that you didn't want to rehash them, you trashed him (three times) and made it pretty clear that you would be an a$$ to work with. I wish you luck in finding devs who want to put up with that.
I think either member have the right to say what they please.
While lbcoder was a bit harsh, I can understand his frustration.
They're both senior members however, and have both have contributed MASS amounts to the comunity. If they want to hash out a problem so be it.
All its doing is keeping this thread at the top
sykokenndogg said:
I think either member have the right to say what they please.
While lbcoder was a bit harsh, I can understand his frustration.
They're both senior members however, and have both have contributed MASS amounts to the comunity. If they want to hash out a problem so be it.
All its doing is keeping this thread at the top
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree. this should DEFINITELY stay at the top non-rooted g1 users at the very least should have these a2sd AOSP updates... and everyone else can just get the regular updates because they have enough internal memory
lbcoder said:
the current implementations are just crazy HACKS --- unstable, unreliable, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to fill this thread with more nonsense but I have to disagree with you on saying the current apps2sds are just crazy hacks. Hacks? yes. Crazy, unstable, and unreliable? No. The new roms that are out currently automatically move your apps to your ext partition on startup if the ext partition is there. If not then the apps will not move there. The fact that you can dual mount your sd now also illiminates any FCs while you have the phone mounted to a pc. I am not saying that the method can not improve but anyone that is currently running an Enom or Cyan rom can tell you if you didnt personally create the partition then you would have no idea that the apps were on the sd.
Agreed, A2SD is stable
If you follow the directions, Apps2SD is more stable than most of the apps on it, imho.
I think the problem that people are having with stability involve the several ways to get there, the fact that each is a multi-step process, and Android users seem to run the gamut from someone who could hack into Sun Microsystem's payroll to someone who just got their first ,uh, smartphone. Most of us tend toward the latter. If you wrest the control from the user and automate it, then I think we'd see the last of A2SD instability.
Internal memory isn't just for apps, and I think it'll grow regardless. People like high numbers on boxes. WM (WP?) has had this since pre-turn of the century, and the demand for more phone memory hasn't decreased. As a matter of fact, the ROMs just grew, and grew, and grew.
Hey, it's cheaper, it's pretty much just as fast, and if it's easy, people will be able to figure out what the different partitions are once they get them and have to manage them, so it'll teach the masses. I'm all for it. Can't code for diddly, but I like the idea.
Yeah. Bump.
Edit: Yes, you will catch more flies with honey. In the friendliest way I can say it, lose the 'tude, or you'll lose out on a lot, lot, lot of other stuff, and you likely won't be able to figure out why things aren't working out for you. You can't really look back and say what might've been, either. You can, and please do, still say what you need to say, maybe even more, but *how* you say it really matters.
a2sd is FAR from being a stable, reliable, sane solution to the device's storage problem, I've said it time and time again.
Being "Senior Member" is in no way a measure of reliability, experience, or knowledge. I could fill 10,000 posts with 4/5ths of them being "Reported 10 chars" and be a senior member. Also, although I've tried to help where I can, I don't think I've yet contributed anything significant, mainly to avoid the barrage of posts afterwards asking how to make it work... and that brings me back to topic; the storage of apps on SD-card would be hell for carrier's support lines. The implementation is mostly non-existent in MASS MARKET headsets, and although you're right to point out that Android is making strides beyond the phone market, I believe the implementation would be shunned by google for several reasons; the formerly mentioned carrier support hell, both carriers and manufacturer's desire for handsets to become obsolete, google's desire to keep android appealing to both carriers and manufacturers, and possible competition in the thin-portable client and netbook spaces against it's own upcoming Chrome OS.
At this point already, the hope that the feature will "2) ultimately ship with devices stock" is pretty, pretty slim.
As opposed to what most members here might think, we're in the minority (rooted Dream users), and although a2sd does cater to some rooted users, we're still talking about the minority of Dream devices out there (since really, it seems the only reason behind implementing a2sd is the Dream's stock 70 MB app storage space, most other devices at least double that amount). Normal people (read: not us geeks) change devices often almost as a fashion statement, so any solution, if it did make it as an update, would be to support the desire of a small fraction of an almost obsolete device.
Besides, even starting with the way apps are currently handled by the device, it would require a major re-working of the platform to get this monstrosity working. Currently, apps are handled in two spaces, system apps, which can't be un-installed, and user apps, which can be un-installed, updated, etc, but not by the user, but by the package-manager. A better solution would be a third app space for sd-card installed apps. The system/package manager would not install these apks downloaded directly to the sd-card's fat32, rather, they would just show up on the app launcher (we could have scans for new apps every time an sd-card was inserted/removed). With donut's on-demand dexopting, we could create another directory in /data, say, /sd-dalvik-cache, or even leave the .dex in the sdcard while the app was in use and remove it when the app stops (and clear any .dex on sd-card mount), and create a third category of apps that could be installed to sd (in lieu of it, apps would get thrown into /data/app and moved back to sd as soon as one was available, of course, after prompting the user). This way, developers would be able to choose for their apps to be installed to SD and they could take the appropriate security measures to ensure the safety of their code, if that's what they want.
A2SD should have been an option for android in first place. Windows mobile has it, why not android? Is it stable and usable the way it is - sure. But what happens if I want to take out my sdcard and put it in a card reader?
It's one of the major failures of android along with it not supporting adhoc
networks, bluetooth obex as default and some other significant issues.
Don't get me wrong here - there are many things I love abut the platform but
flaws are there too. I've had winmo standart, winmo pro and now an android phone and in terms of "getting the job done" all three have their + and -.
The *current* mechanism to install applications on SD is an EXTREMELY hacky piece of junk.
Though it will work, it will only do so under the following conditions;
1) the user is fully aware of the limitations of the system and doesn't do anything that will stress it out,
2) the sdcard is *always* in the device, never removed.
3) it is impossible to use multiple sdcards in the same device.
Let me pose this question to everyone;
WHAT HAPPENS if you are using hack-apps2sd and you remove the sdcard? You know, just PULL IT OUT... This is something that "regular" users do *all the time*.
This is only one of many conditions that need to be managed by an apps2sd system before it can be considered for inclusion in a consumer device.
Needs to be done;
1) The user needs to be able to chose whether or not to enable apps-to-sd and must set itself up on the phone itself by just the click of a button.
2) The user must be able to SWAP SDCARDS at will. This includes the case where they just rip the card out without unmounting it.
3) When an sdcard is inserted containing apps, the system must automatically set it up and add those applications to the package manager.
4) UID collisions must NEVER happen.
5) External apps must be able to be sanely removed from the package manager upon unmount (planned or unplanned).
6) Processes with open file handles must be politely shut down upon a planned unmount.
7) Processes with open file handled must be CLEANLY killed off upon an UNPLANNED unmount.
8) PROTECTED-APPS must be copy protected when stored on the sdcard to at least equal security to that used internally, i.e. they should be encrypted using a randomly generated key stored in a root-only location within /data.
9) The user must be able to chose where to install a new application.
10) Application home directory and dalvik-cache must be stored on the same media as the application is installed to, i.e. internally installed apps should have their home directory and dalvik-cache stored internally, externally installed apps should have their home directory and dalvik-cache stored externally.
11) Optional: Ability to grow/shrink the amount of storage on the sdcard devoted to applications.
In other words, the user experience should be like this;
1) With a regular sdcard inserted (or no sdcard inserted), the user experience must not be any different than it is currently.
2) User can go to Settings-->SD card & phone storage-->(SD card) Enable application install to SD card. This prompts the user for how much space to devote to applications (default, say equal to internal), and then sets it up.
2B) optional -- user can go to Settings-->SD card & phone storage-->(SD card) "Change SD card space reserved for applications". Prompts for new size (min size = current space used, max size = current available + total sdcard available).
3) User goes to install a new app, if the card has application storage enabled, the installer asks where to install the application to (internal or sdcard).
4) User safely unmounts sdcard -- if applications are running, prompt "There are applications running on the sdcard (list them), these will be terminated. Continue?", terminates applications, removes them from package manager, unmounts.
5) User unsafely pulls sdcard -- if applications were running, message "These applications were running on the sdcard. They have been terminated and any unsaved data has been lost."
6) User inserts or mounts sdcard, system scans if application install is enabled on the card, if it is, the applications are added to package manager.
discussion management
lbcoder,
The thread at groups.google is definitely the technical thread, so I am using this one to comment on your reply dated Oct 30 2:39 pm.
Hands down I believe that for the sake of keeping the discussion open (one of the pillars of the scientific method) is to allow comments that may or may not agree with your or anyone else's point of view.
I agree on that Armando's idea is wrong, just like you do. Although he does have some valid points, which anyone who reads carefully can see. He is probably out of line writing what he did on the technical thread instead of here; and should be scolded for that. But not for sharing his thoughts. I won't elaborate on my own ideas on the matter this because it is not my purpose with this post.
My purpose is to ask everyone working on both this and the technical thread to tone it down, please. XDA sometimes becomes a battleground, sometimes funny and sometimes wasteful and even annoying and both this and the technical thread at groups.google could be very valuable for the platform.
BTW: I'm a well seasoned developer, with well over 15 yrs of experience and who leads reasonably big projects.
Thanks for the thread. It is well worth it, whatever the outcome is.
fosormic said:
lbcoder,
The thread at groups.google is definitely the technical thread, so I am using this one to comment on your reply dated Oct 30 2:39 pm.
Hands down I believe that for the sake of keeping the discussion open (one of the pillars of the scientific method) is to allow comments that may or may not agree with your or anyone else's point of view.
I agree on that Armando's idea is wrong, just like you do. Although he does have some valid points, which anyone who reads carefully can see. He is probably out of line writing what he did on the technical thread instead of here; and should be scolded for that. But not for sharing his thoughts. I won't elaborate on my own ideas on the matter this because it is not my purpose with this post.
My purpose is to ask everyone working on both this and the technical thread to tone it down, please. XDA sometimes becomes a battleground, sometimes funny and sometimes wasteful and even annoying and both this and the technical thread at groups.google could be very valuable for the platform.
BTW: I'm a well seasoned developer, with well over 15 yrs of experience and who leads reasonably big projects.
Thanks for the thread. It is well worth it, whatever the outcome is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no place in this discussion for opinions. Its not about battling, its not about opinions, its not about any of that BS. What I am asking is for anyone INTERESTED in CONTRIBUTING (either in code, or in rational discussion regarding implementation details) to come forward and do so. Everything else is irrelevant and out of place.
As for his having valid points... not relevant since ALL of his valid points have been addressed. His purpose (if he has any at all) is therefore simply to disrupt progress.
And since he has effectively destroyed this thread with his nonsense, I may cease monitoring this thread. Anyone interested in contributing, please contact me by PM. Anyone interested in being disruptive, don't waste your time -- really, just go away.
lbcoder said:
The *current* mechanism to install applications on SD is an EXTREMELY hacky piece of junk.
Though it will work, it will only do so under the following conditions;
1) the user is fully aware of the limitations of the system and doesn't do anything that will stress it out,
2) the sdcard is *always* in the device, never removed.
3) it is impossible to use multiple sdcards in the same device.
Let me pose this question to everyone;
WHAT HAPPENS if you are using hack-apps2sd and you remove the sdcard? You know, just PULL IT OUT... This is something that "regular" users do *all the time*.
This is only one of many conditions that need to be managed by an apps2sd system before it can be considered for inclusion in a consumer device.
Needs to be done;
1) The user needs to be able to chose whether or not to enable apps-to-sd and must set itself up on the phone itself by just the click of a button.
2) The user must be able to SWAP SDCARDS at will. This includes the case where they just rip the card out without unmounting it.
3) When an sdcard is inserted containing apps, the system must automatically set it up and add those applications to the package manager.
4) UID collisions must NEVER happen.
5) External apps must be able to be sanely removed from the package manager upon unmount (planned or unplanned).
6) Processes with open file handles must be politely shut down upon a planned unmount.
7) Processes with open file handled must be CLEANLY killed off upon an UNPLANNED unmount.
8) PROTECTED-APPS must be copy protected when stored on the sdcard to at least equal security to that used internally, i.e. they should be encrypted using a randomly generated key stored in a root-only location within /data.
9) The user must be able to chose where to install a new application.
10) Application home directory and dalvik-cache must be stored on the same media as the application is installed to, i.e. internally installed apps should have their home directory and dalvik-cache stored internally, externally installed apps should have their home directory and dalvik-cache stored externally.
11) Optional: Ability to grow/shrink the amount of storage on the sdcard devoted to applications.
In other words, the user experience should be like this;
1) With a regular sdcard inserted (or no sdcard inserted), the user experience must not be any different than it is currently.
2) User can go to Settings-->SD card & phone storage-->(SD card) Enable application install to SD card. This prompts the user for how much space to devote to applications (default, say equal to internal), and then sets it up.
2B) optional -- user can go to Settings-->SD card & phone storage-->(SD card) "Change SD card space reserved for applications". Prompts for new size (min size = current space used, max size = current available + total sdcard available).
3) User goes to install a new app, if the card has application storage enabled, the installer asks where to install the application to (internal or sdcard).
4) User safely unmounts sdcard -- if applications are running, prompt "There are applications running on the sdcard (list them), these will be terminated. Continue?", terminates applications, removes them from package manager, unmounts.
5) User unsafely pulls sdcard -- if applications were running, message "These applications were running on the sdcard. They have been terminated and any unsaved data has been lost."
6) User inserts or mounts sdcard, system scans if application install is enabled on the card, if it is, the applications are added to package manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well the extremely hacky piece of junk took a lot of hard work from the developers here......show some respect
I cracked the img format for Garminfones... started out by looking at the format of the file and it turns out the only difference is the loader addresses.
Took the stock recovery and disabled security, which worked. Then modified the boot.img to disable security and had the filesystems mount rw by default and flashed it to the recovery partition. Booted into recovery mode and viola... security disabled. Now it is time to flash it to the boot partition and cross fingers.
Now I just need to figure out how to compile a working recovery mode... preferrably one that can be activated by keypress. Not sure how to do that part. I can only get to recovery and bootloader mode after booting into the os.
I should have a working mkbooting soon so I don't have to hex edit the generated img files.
Well done!
I look forward to any progress reports that you make.
Are you using the official or leaked version of the 2.1 Eclair?
The official and leaked versions are equal.
And I did find out that we do have fastboot It's the blue screen that you get when you hold UP+POWER, or do adb reboot bootloader... two different messages on the screen. I can get fastboot to accept a reboot-bootloader command, but I'm having some issues actually getting any information out of it or flashing something like a boot image.
To get it to respond, you do:
fastboot -i 0x091E <command>
the -i makes it specify the Vendor ID, since fastboot only accepts a few vendors by default.
I also found out that I don't have to rebuild the mkbootimg program... if you add --base 0x1AC00000, then the load addresses match up in the resulting img file.
If someone is willing to host it, I can share the modified boot.img that sets ro.secure=0 and mounts the filesystems RW by default.
Hey, just joined to reply to this thread. Is it possible for you to upload to a file-sharing site such as megaupload, fileserve, etc.
I'm just getting into this whole rooting/modifying stuff. I used z4root to root my A50 and have installed superuser. I have deleted some of the carrier .apks but am thinking I should have made a back-up before doing so. I also bought setcpu from the market before finding out the Qualcomm chip does not allow overclocking.
Can I ask what the point of modifying the boot image is? Is this the first step in being able to install custom roms to the phone?
Anyway, appreciate the effort you guys have put in to modifying the phone.
You get a higher level of access, along with things like being able to customize parts of the phone, in my case enabling read/write by default. I also am planning on playing a bit, like remapping partitions... the instructions are in the init.rc file.
Always take a dump_image (or remount all mtd partitions as read only and just use cat to dump the mtd partitions). Also tar up each of the root folders (and files) in case you need quick access to any files you may have deleted. If you need a system app back and you don't have a backup, you have to reflash 2.1 again. Very important... if you care about the Garmin map software, make sure to get the /storage folder, including the one in it named .System... you can recover the maps, vehicles, etc by using two different Garmin web update windows programs-- one for the system stuff and one for the maps. Better safe than sorry.
any news on this
What would we need to be able to overclock?
I spent a good portion of the day yesterday rooting and installing CyanogenMod on my fiance's MyTouch Slide, and I have to say, it was amazing. It's a lot more than just a throwing around some custom default apps, cleaning up bloatware, even adding some kernel modules... I can do all of that on my rooted Garminfone just fine. It also had the Android 2.3 base, and it has polish and refinements that just can't be done without a custom built ROM.
I bought my Garminfone on purpose, even knowing that it shipped with Android 1.6, even knowing that the interface was awful, even knowing that the device wasn't going to sell as well as I wished it would. I bought it for it's offline maps, and for it's fantastic GPS. Things have improved since I bought my device... Android 2.1 was released, an improved user interface arrived, I gained root access and was able to clean up some stuff, etc. etc. But none of that prevented me from being jealous yesterday after seeing CyanogenMod. Further, Cyanogen has experience with preserving apps through the process of installing his mod for the first time; He did it when Google first sent him the Cease and Desist letter barring him from packaging CyanogenMod with Google Apps. I'm not sure HOW he did it, and I don't care, but I do think that it's very possible for him to do just that again with our Garmin Maps and the associated apps.
For these reasons, I suggest that we could have our cake, and we could eat it too: Have a modern OS (Based on Android 2.3), have a clean, unified interface, with no bloatware AND our maps... Cyanogen is not known for making his mod for phones he doesnt own. Further, as we all know, ours was possibly the worst selling and least popular android device ever released to market. While I consider myself versed in the ways of Linux, I am not a developer. I run Gentoo, and have the associated skills, and I will contribute in any way I know how, but hacking is not my forte. I can't expect brilliant minds to work for any project for nothing. Therefore, I am putting my money where my mouth is... I'm going to take all the money from my weekly paycheck that I can afford, and I'm going to donate it to that project. It won't be much... I am a starving college kid, after all... but it will be generous within my means. I am also going to post a reference to this thread everywhere I know how... My contribution might be small, but the community might be able to get something together that is mighty.
Visit topic 5864-garminfone on their forums to add your support.
(Edit: They moved my post, I have corrected this with the correct forum topic)
Hello, I ask for help and assistance, please.
Sony M2 - D2305
The whole tutorial was read carefully and followed as is, it was achieved, used and tried to meet the objectives happily, it is not my first flash, nor the first device to die (another lg L80 d375ar) I have vague concepts thanks to the forum and booble, I understand something. I am not a developer but I would like to go deeper, without more, I will give a description with my best effort and in the end I will go to the problem in question. (which arose from layer 8 human error in an oversight)
-the bootloader was successfully unlocked;
-I don't remember which flashtool version to use, I have 0.9.18-6 as recommended; following 0.9.22-3 (I think I used this); 0.9.25-0; 0.9.33-0; 0.9.34-0;
-all those files in theory means that then, they work, it was used very well (congratulations to dev's, great job);
-woow!! What's that? Did you launch a new updated version of the lineage, good! I want to try that now! (telling me);
TROUBLE:
Between so many times that I have done it, after doing the format, and the corresponding wipes ... I realize that I never inserted the sd card.
I slide on off.
There is no system, it does not light its LED light under any combination, its battery was at 100%, there is no dfu, there is no recovery, there is no download, no adb, no fastboot, the battery was removed, I charged it with a source of experiments and its voltage is correct, it was allowed to drain and retry after several months assuming the kernel is the one who tried to charge the battery by auto-restarting, and correcting itself, it was tested with every program found in Windows and Linux, and not gave signs of nothing.
win32
semc_device
win64
somc_device
linux
qhsusb_bulk
DEAD!! x_X
*this reminded me of the other device mentioned, qhdloader9008 or something like that, in addition to the qhsusb_bulk, it died with its stock-rom forcing shutdown with buttons because it frozen, among the few possible solutions found and tried, it is mentioned about another possible ported solution, It consists of something like making a copypaste of a complete image of all internal sectors and taking it to the sd-card, and I remember that it almost revived although something was missing and I no longer remember, I could try again but it did not work.
**I have hopes that someone with a lot of knowledge appears, a better solution or someone's help, using their image or helping me create one in some way or another, I do not know what else to do, maybe someone with it same model to try to boot from sdcard.
(I have never done it, if someone wanted to confirm, detail, or know how to provide the complete process, it would also be of great help. But according to what I "don't understand" is that the most reliable thing is to do it from a Linux environment and it would be something like for example )
dd if = /dirInput | vp | dd of = /dirOutput
and share it compressed?)
(If there is any private data, it reserves its right)
***From ignorance, I want to ask according to how little I have learned until today...
what happened here?
Was the recovery installed by mounting in cache? and was the data saved as temporary in a sector that is volatile not persistent? Wrong indexes were formatted and inserted into wrong sectors, losing access to gpt / mbr of all complete? or what happened here?)
****Something extreme and crazy out of context that I wonder, is the result of mixing mcu microcontroller, needles, wires, spi, i2c, bidirectional ttl converter, vcc, gnd, dat + dat- but I still don't understand much, to Unless they make it very easy for me to understand with kiss principles, boxes, apples and kittens.