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i know the standard difference between read only memory and random access memory. but how come there isnt a way to use ROM as RAM? i mean think about it. we use our sdcards as virtual ram (SWAP) which is basically dependent on the class of the card. by accessing the ROM and using it as RAM dont we get the fastest "class" possible? I mean i barely use my ROM for anything except the OS installation since i use APP2SD. is the reason we use APP2SD is because running apps from the ROM would be slower than running it from the SD? also, i have a MT3G and we all know those only come with 192 mb RAM and 512 mb ROM. i am running cyanogen ROM which is quick as hell, but im still really curious on why taskiller shows only 30 mb free. how the hell is that possible? your saying that my OS is using 84% of my RAM. HOW THE HELL IS THIS CONSIDERED EFFICIENT?! I am just having a hard time believing that a OS can use THAT much RAM when its not doing anything except..well..running the OS! do i have a point or what? i could ask my friend whos a programmer but i donno if hes more into the hardware or software aspect. I kinda wanna install donut alone and see what it runs with nothing installed except taskiller. and oh ya, my phone isnt running more than like 3 apps, i mean at MAX, i get like 40mb RAM free. anyways people. hit me up. i WANNA LEARN!
pre wm5 devices only had ram and the user could device what was used as storage and what was normal ram
this was a problem because loss of power meant loss of storage
then they moved away from using ram as storage as flash became cheap
problem with using flash as ram is that flash is much much much slower then normal ram
more so for writing but also reading
another problem is that flash have a limited number of writes you can do before the flash storage cell die kinda like a cd-rw/dvd-rw normal ram is written too a lot and the limited number of writes would be a problem there unlike with storage
awesome! thanks for the clarification. i understand now. i knew there was a good reason. can anyone explain where my RAM is going tho? 192mb down to 30mb. seems like something is wrong.
well the os use some
the rest would be eaten by 3th party programs like today item stuff
if you use the htc today thing rather then plane wm today
and programs started by /windows/startup
or started by entries in the registry
When my phone just started it is about 180, then it dropped to 90 after extensive use (20ish minutes).
That is even after using advanced task killer...
Anyone else experiencing this?
That's still plenty o' memory.
Keep in mind that there's a lot of folks getting good performance out of Droids, Milestones, etc, that have half the RAM (256) to start with, and hover around 20-30mb free in normal operation.
I was curious about this myself and was going to make a thread about it soon. Regardless of if it's enough free memory, I'm still a little confused as to where all my memory is going. When I close everything with TasKiller, I can get to about 175 MB of RAM free. I have a friend with an EVO that always gets well over 200 MB free, and I imagine that the HTC Sense UI would use a lot more memory than Launcher Pro (which is what I'm using)... but I could be wrong.
I can hit about 230 free after killing all tasks. I uninstalled all the ATT apps not sure if that had anything to do with it. I also use Touchwiz with only 2 Widgets accross 2 home screens.
maybe its android 2.1 that has a cap on the memory
Guys, a little piece of advice if you're new to Android. Don't sweat memory usage, if it's above 40mb free you're generally doing just fine.
And those apps that are using memory aren't using much if any CPU cycles or power, most are just cached in case you need them, and are wiped out of the cache if something else needs the memory.
On the other hand, if you're killing a lot of background tasks by reflex, those tasks are taking MORE time and power to reload again if they're no longer cached, plus there's the overhead of the Task Killer. It's especially bad if you have a Task Killer set to auto-kill apps, even more overhead as the task killer has to remain active to sniff for things to auto-kill.
Task Killers are the devil, and they're like crack. Just walk away.
labbu63 said:
maybe its android 2.1 that has a cap on the memory
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Click to collapse
Thats what some people are saying. They said we should see more avail RAM when the 2.2 update comes out. Or if someone can do some kernel wizardry.
The specs on the box do not mention any amount of RAM. I would be unhappy if ATT only put in 256! I didn't look through the manual maybe it says in there.
Bjd223 said:
Thats what some people are saying. They said we should see more avail RAM when the 2.2 update comes out. Or if someone can do some kernel wizardry.
The specs on the box do not mention any amount of RAM. I would be unhappy if ATT only put in 256! I didn't look through the manual maybe it says in there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im going to look into this more cause thats strange but i dont think you should worry much about the ram cause like it was said before if u have 40mb free ur still good
labbu63 said:
maybe its android 2.1 that has a cap on the memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed that seems to be the case, many threads about the issue can be found elsewhere on xda or google. Also this technical article from google: developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.htm (I can't post links yet)
yep ur right says more mem support at near bottom http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.2-highlights.html
2.6.32 kernel upgrade
HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB
so it seems cause of the kernel
Well that's interesting. So you're saying that no matter what, right now we're only accessing 256 MB of RAM? I hadn't heard that before about 2.1, but that would be cool if our RAM essentially doubled in 2.2 (along with the massive CPU speed gains seen).
Again, it's not so much being worried that I'm going to run out of memory. It's simply a discussion on what people think we should be seeing. I'm certain that I don't have enough running to use 300 MB of RAM, which is why the question was raised. So I think we have our answer now and can rest easy waiting for 2.2.
As for the task killers... I honestly am more worried about CPU cycles for things I've left in the background than RAM. I've noticed my phone basically hang for a few seconds every so often, and I can only assume that something in the background is causing it. I'm going to turn off auto kill and not kill tasks manually for a while and see if there is any difference during use.
labbu63 said:
im going to look into this more cause thats strange but i dont think you should worry much about the ram cause like it was said before if u have 40mb free ur still good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
40? No. 40mb of free RAM is unacceptable with todays smartphones on the market. I own a Captivate as well as a Nexus One and my Nexus consistently has 200-250 avail RAM. However when they first released the phone they only released it with 256 avail making my phone normally read about 120- 130 avail RAM. Now its been opened up to the 512(unless it had already been rooted) and it is much quicker than before. I'm wondering if something similar has been done with this phone.
well if it does have more than 256 mb it will be able to recognize rest in 2.2 as you said about ur nexus one maybe its just that the software on the captivate thats showing less you never know just gotta wait till some dev figures it out hopefully not to long
My phone is reporting 325mb of RAM, so I'm not sure if this is the same kernel limitation. I would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me as to whether or not the full 512 I was under the impression this phone possessed will be available under 2.2.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ttalaoc said:
My phone is reporting 325mb of RAM, so I'm not sure if this is the same kernel limitation. I would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me as to whether or not the full 512 I was under the impression this phone possessed will be available under 2.2.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly the limitation being talked about. Yes, 512 will be available after 2.2.
Until then, don't worry about it. Don't install a task killer, they just waste your time worrying about it. The OS has built in levels of memory where it starts to kill off different types of apps from background idle, all the way up to foreground active if entirely necessary. It WILL kill the extra apps if you need the memory.
I have been running ATK constantly since I got my Captivate a couple days ago. Not really concerned with memory usage as much as battery life. So far I get one full day of use before recharge, but I expect that to go up once I stop turning on the screen every few minutes to play with it. Can auto task killing negatively affect battery life?
I'm usually sitting on somewhere between 60-100MB of free RAM. Now keep in mind, I have LOTS of widgets running, a gorgeous theme, spb 3d launcher, etc...and I prefer to keep those things going, because that's how I get my value from my phone. I don't think the phone is slow by any means...but because I'm used to using Windows, I'm paranoid about low ram. Should I be worried, or is it fine as long as I'm not experiencing bad performance?
Moving some apps to my internal sd card wouldn't do anything about RAM, correct?
mmapcpro said:
I'm usually sitting on somewhere between 60-100MB of free RAM. Now keep in mind, I have LOTS of widgets running, a gorgeous theme, spb 3d launcher, etc...and I prefer to keep those things going, because that's how I get my value from my phone. I don't think the phone is slow by any means...but because I'm used to using Windows, I'm paranoid about low ram. Should I be worried, or is it fine as long as I'm not experiencing bad performance?
Moving some apps to my internal sd card wouldn't do anything about RAM, correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert at all, but rather someone with the same question. As explained to me, the newer versions of android are most excellent in memory management. The need to manage memory, like in windows, is not there in newer versions.
With that said, being from windows, seeing low memory counts freak me out. I've been convinced by the people on this forum, to give it a try and not freak out. Avoid using task killers and such. Only thing I do is remove apps and Widgets I do not use. I've not regretted that advice.
It really all depends on what you are doing on the phone. If you only have 10 MB left, but are only checking emails, you are fine. But if you were to start playing a game from the terga zone, then you will have problems.
Sent from my G2x using Tapatalk
aowendoff said:
It really all depends on what you are doing on the phone. If you only have 10 MB left, but are only checking emails, you are fine. But if you were to start playing a game from the terga zone, then you will have problems.
Sent from my G2x using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but, my understanding is, android will shutdown unused tasks to accommodate the need.
I learned with windows phone 7, there is a balance between live tiles, battery life, and performance. I assume that android has a similar premise. Do I need 40 Widgets on my desktop. What is the trade off if I do.
Again, I'm # noob to android...but this is how I'm proceeding.
Android keeps things in ram, which I would think is so apps can start up faster. If you are using something and it needs more ram than is free, android will remove something that isn't running to free memory. as far as too little, ram not being used is wasted. So just because you have a low amount free means nothing. The only thing that would be bad is if running services and apps needed more ram than the phone physically has. so just because there is little free means nothing really.
Read the article linked to in the first post of this thread here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=678205
Pay special attention to the Addendum at the end where it talks specifically about the way Android/Linux handles memory.
Are there any other existing kernels for sgs4g besides the ones on the first page?
Reason I ask is because I'm trying to use a swap partition, but it seems these kernels are not swap enabled.
Why has nobody bothered to compile any custom kernels for the sgs4g? I am trying myself, but no luck so far.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
S
sconsylman said:
Are there any other existing kernels for sgs4g besides the ones on the first page?
Reason I ask is because I'm trying to use a swap partition, but it seems these kernels are not swap enabled.
Why has nobody bothered to compile any custom kernels for the sgs4g? I am trying myself, but no luck so far.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure I can answer the whole question as to why we don't use swap, but I can say that we just got the GB kernel source, and people are still working on it and haven't posted anything.... yet. Patients...
But, I noticed that the Bali 3.3 kernel (KD1) also did not have swap. Maybe drhonk and Krylon360 tried it and swap didn't help or improve performance.
The rest of the kernels you'll find are either stock leaks, or modified stock leaks. Samsung doesn't like swap I guess. Or swapping on SD/MMC sucks hard.
I know in newer kernels (3.0 and greater), there is a new driver for mtd-swap, but it is still very new and I doubt anyone will use it in production for quite some time.
Using swap on Android is not such a great idea, it goes a little bit against native Android memory management. Then benefit can be that more programs will stay in memory and won't need to reload, but the phone will become a lot slower, even with small partitions like 32MB. With 128MB or higher it will become almost unusable. Ask me how I know
I think the need for swap was gone once phones started coming with 512mb+ ram. I used swap all the time (also required for GB) on my MT3G, since it only had like 192mb ram. It never made the phone work faster at all, in fact it usually slowed down over time running, it really just made it so stuff didn't force close due to running out of memory. This shouldn't be needed on this or any new phone.
So Bali 3.3 is a GingerBread build? Didn't know that. Kinda figures I guess. Thought I had already tried it though and couldn't bootload. I'll give it another whack. His stuff is awesome of course. I'm not demanding it, mind you, just trying to see why it would not be included. Kind of like not having a /proc/config.gz file in some Android builds, don't really know the reason why they're not included (results in not able to mount ubuntu builds, anybody have these let me know .
This appears to be the only source of kernels for our phones, no swap support enabled though. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1194032
(Thanks dr.honk!)
As for the swap partition not making sense, I have a hard time understanding why it wouldn't just provide a static and beneficial extended memory source. I am familiar with the memory management features of Android, and actually don't use any additional task killers as I've found them to be conflicting often.
But Android is built off the Linux system/kernel, so why does dedicated swap work with a large OS but not the smaller but similar Android OS/kernel?
Thanks!
sconsylman said:
As for the swap partition not making sense, I have a hard time understanding why it wouldn't just provide a static and beneficial extended memory source. I am familiar with the memory management features of Android, and actually don't use any additional task killers as I've found them to be conflicting often.
But Android is built off the Linux system/kernel, so why does dedicated swap work with a large OS but not the smaller but similar Android OS/kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In short, the phone will become annoyingly slow.
Swap works on kernel level. Android will see this as additional virtual memory, so it will keep more programs alive and won't unload them. For example a browser will hog a lot of memory causing other programs' memory pages to be swapped. Kernel doesn't differentiate between programs, so, for example, the launcher memory pages will be swapped. Or even the active program you are currently working with can have part of its memory in the swap. Next time you try to do something (like scrolling), the memory pages will have to be brought back. Flash memory is not particularly fast (in fact for swap it is very slow), so you can we waiting for some noticeable time for many actions to complete. You'll have a lot of jerky movements, delays, temporary freezes, forget any smoothness. It is just annoying, trust me, I've tried
Ah, ok so the swapping is noticeably slower than the ram on the phone (512mb). I would not figure that it would be too much of a factor, especially on class 6+ sd cards. So there is absolutely no way of coding the system apps to be ram based, and everything else to be swappable? I'm surprised that this has not been done, but I assume that the reason is the expanding active ram capacities on new phones.
So were you experimenting on the sgs4g, or was it another model? And if so, what were you using? Froyo swap enabled kernel?
The HTC Thunderbolt has some similar specs.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1106420
More ram 768mb vs 512mb, more internal storage 4g vs 1000mb, but uses a 1g single core scorpion processor instead of our 1g single core hummingbird. Some are having good luck with this device and swapping (taking all "facts" with a grain of salt). There is more like this too, with a number of market apps to support swapping: Swapper2, Swap for Root, Diaper swappers forum (oops, that one doesn't work for some reason).
sconsylman said:
So Bali 3.3 is a GingerBread build? Didn't know that. Kinda figures I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Bali 3.3 is Froyo.
I did try it on this phone few months ago when I was still on Froyo with Bali kernel. Don't try to load in on GB, wait until DrHonk makes a new one, he actually may soon.
I personally can't imagine how anybody could use swap on Android and like it, but everybody's mileage varies. The benefit of using swap wouldn't be speed but rather less program reloads. For example you browse the web when a call comes. You answer the call, maybe go to address book, or take some notes, or send some pictures, etc. Everything will be a little slow and jerky, but with swap enabled you have better chance that when returning to the browser it will still be on the same page without reloading from the server.
Just checking again to see if anyone knows of any KJ6 kernels with swap enabled, as I'm currently getting memory warnings from running Backtrack 5 non-gnome. It works pretty well otherwise (besides the lack of space, thanks obsolete fat32).
??
sconsylman said:
Just checking again to see if anyone knows of any KJ6 kernels with swap enabled, as I'm currently getting memory warnings from running Backtrack 5 non-gnome. It works pretty well otherwise (besides the lack of space, thanks obsolete fat32).
??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No swap. what version of the kernel are you running?
bhundven said:
No swap. what version of the kernel are you running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
2.6.35.7 KJ6-CL694138
It has [email protected]#9 signature on it. I know we had spoken briefly about swap. What linux are you running?
I know that the Debdroid program is successfully running swap with good results, but it won't mount right with the specific scripts (our phones working mount scripts are different, I linked them in my linux post). I can take some coding from that programs scripts but of course it won't work without the kernel having swap built in.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
is there a way to increase the infuse ram?
well no and yes. you can't physically add ram very easily and i doubt the board has space for it even if you did have the specialized soldering equipment.
but there is a big ram mod on the galaxy s that was attempted on the infuse but was buggy that makes use of ram that was allocated for something else. if someone wants to do the kernel work i think something like 20-30 mb more could be available. i'm not really sure of the details but a stock galaxy s has like 300-315 mb available and most custom kernels make 335-345 available out of 384 physical (128 is video ram and i'm not counting that). the infuse physically has 512 mb so maybe we could use up to 470 if some work was done in that area. not really a big deal though, i dont have any lag associated with programs being dumped from ram and restarting. the 440 mbs that i have available now is plenty for a nice clean aosp rom.
if you really need more ram maybe swap space (the linux equivalent of a page file/virtual memory) could be setup on the sdcard. but that wont make the phone any faster, it would just give the cpu more work to do. it would strictly help with a situation where things were getting wiped from ram too often when ram was low.
Jack it up and park a SGS3 under it. :silly:
Dani897 said:
well no and yes. you can't physically add ram very easily and i doubt the board has space for it even if you did have the specialized soldering equipment.
but there is a big ram mod on the galaxy s that was attempted on the infuse but was buggy that makes use of ram that was allocated for something else. if someone wants to do the kernel work i think something like 20-30 mb more could be available. i'm not really sure of the details but a stock galaxy s has like 300-315 mb available and most custom kernels make 335-345 available out of 384 physical (128 is video ram and i'm not counting that). the infuse physically has 512 mb so maybe we could use up to 470 if some work was done in that area. not really a big deal though, i dont have any lag associated with programs being dumped from ram and restarting. the 440 mbs that i have available now is plenty for a nice clean aosp rom.
if you really need more ram maybe swap space (the linux equivalent of a page file/virtual memory) could be setup on the sdcard. but that wont make the phone any faster, it would just give the cpu more work to do. it would strictly help with a situation where things were getting wiped from ram too often when ram was low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what rom and what launcher are you using becuase im experiencing abit of lag and i want it gone!!
Yoshiikim said:
what rom and what launcher are you using becuase im experiencing abit of lag and i want it gone!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
run this kernel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1134995
with this rom:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1100625
^^^ lol. that kernel might have access to more ram but it's froyo. i doubt the lag the op is experienceing is ram related. but he can try it with it's misreported clock speeds and all.
my best experience with touchwiz roms is a stock debloated rom, odex, not deodex. and there is an overclock kernel around somewhere. the tw4 launcher works best for me, but of course that needs framework mods to run, the tw4.5 launcher in the market will work but some features don't work too well on the infuse. turn off auto rotate. the sony arc launcher and the latest tw3 launcher with looped scrolling are also nice. but i like tw4 for it's improved widget picker. the stock android widget picker is so slow.
best rom now is aosp. i'm running entropy's ics build but also enjoyed rem-ics. either the trebuchet launcher or the sgs3 launcher should be fine. i like folders in the app drawer on sgs3. but i keep my phone pretty clean, if you do a clean install with either a stock unmodified rom and custom kernel or a clean aosp rom and you still feel lag then you might want to invest in an sgs3.
If you got the knowledge you can rewright the code to use ram differently as noted earlier...but no amount of software hacking will actually get you more ram...I know linux has a thing called swap which is similar to ram but is its own partion of the HDD...if someone had the knowledge they could possibly create a partion of it and add some kernel hacks to utilize it...
But as far as actually adding more ram-impossible as far as I know...there is no chip on the mother board to add ram.like in a desktop or laptop...I believe its built into the motherboard so your stuck with what's on it
Sent from my HTC Holiday using Tapatalk 2