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hey guys.. i guess im kinda new with androids but all i have is a question... now the i learned how to flash a rom.. its very cool but why do we need kernels what does it mean? just flashing a rom thats not all there are kernels and other stuff but i dont know what they are and what for
Kernels are the core system. Sort of like drivers. Custom Kernels affect stuff like Overclocking for speed, Undervolting the processor to save battery, GPS locks, WiFi range, etc.
They can increase stability, speed, and battery.
The big thing, I think, that most people sought after is the Overclocking/Undervolting (OC/UV). This overclocks the processor while lowering the power usage of the chip at the same time. So you get a faster phone while saving battery. Brilliant. It is my understanding that custom kernels come with normal settings by default. They only ALLOW overclocking abilities using programs like SetCPU and the likes. I think the voltage is lowered on all speeds though, so flashing an UV rom will save you battery even if running 1ghz stock speed. I've seen people go up to 1.4ghz.
It is best to test a rom first for a few days. Figure out what bugs you encounter, if any. Get a feel for the rom so when you flash a new kernel you can see if it will work for you. If you do too much at once and you encounter bugs it will be hard to pinpoint.
I've flashed custom kernels but don't do it often. I know CM roms have their own custom kernels that I believe are flashed back when flashing the rom. This is why CM7 differs from stock in a lot of ways. One example is stock G2x won't work with Wii remotes. The bluetooth stack in the kernel is a custom LG one and doesn't work. CM uses a more common bluetooth stack so you not only gain this functionality but also others.
The list goes on and on. I think most of the custom kernels are BASED off CM7 and are only compatible with CM7. I think a custom kernel on top of a stock LG rom will cause bootloops. So the kernel and rom have to work together.
I am not an expert but I think I've touched the bases. Someone correct me if anything is untrue or misinformative. Technicalities aside, this is the gist of it.
player911 said:
Kernels are the core system. Sort of like drivers. Custom Kernels affect stuff like Overclocking for speed, Undervolting the processor to save battery, GPS locks, WiFi range, etc.
...<snip>
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excellent explanation, i've kinda been wondering about all this myself. Thanks!
player911 said:
Kernels are the core system. Sort of like drivers. Custom Kernels affect stuff like Overclocking for speed, Undervolting the processor to save battery, GPS locks, WiFi range, etc.
They can increase stability, speed, and battery.
The big thing, I think, that most people sought after is the Overclocking/Undervolting (OC/UV). This overclocks the processor while lowering the power usage of the chip at the same time. So you get a faster phone while saving battery. Brilliant. It is my understanding that custom kernels come with normal settings by default. They only ALLOW overclocking abilities using programs like SetCPU and the likes. I think the voltage is lowered on all speeds though, so flashing an UV rom will save you battery even if running 1ghz stock speed. I've seen people go up to 1.4ghz.
It is best to test a rom first for a few days. Figure out what bugs you encounter, if any. Get a feel for the rom so when you flash a new kernel you can see if it will work for you. If you do too much at once and you encounter bugs it will be hard to pinpoint.
I've flashed custom kernels but don't do it often. I know CM roms have their own custom kernels that I believe are flashed back when flashing the rom. This is why CM7 differs from stock in a lot of ways. One example is stock G2x won't work with Wii remotes. The bluetooth stack in the kernel is a custom LG one and doesn't work. CM uses a more common bluetooth stack so you not only gain this functionality but also others.
The list goes on and on. I think most of the custom kernels are BASED off CM7 and are only compatible with CM7. I think a custom kernel on top of a stock LG rom will cause bootloops. So the kernel and rom have to work together.
I am not an expert but I think I've touched the bases. Someone correct me if anything is untrue or misinformative. Technicalities aside, this is the gist of it.
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Ya, thanks for putting the time into explaining. I was wondering the same thing..
Wow that was briliant thank you...
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Does anyone know of some good apps (preferably free) that I can use to overclock a rooted droid charge, with the latest altered beast ROM and kernel?
There aren't any overclock kernels at this point. Its being worked on. Just be patient.
Fe_Man said:
Does anyone know of some good apps (preferably free) that I can use to overclock a rooted droid charge, with the latest altered beast ROM and kernel?
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You can try tegrak from the market if you really want oc.
In all honesty, just wait for a kernel to come out that will actually oc. I'd love a kernel that uses voltage control and will wait for that...
Ahh, thanks. This is my first android device so I have no idea what to expect and when
If I can ever get my config straightened out, I was going to look into doing an OC kernel that uses Voltage Control, similar to nemesis2all's kernels for the Fascinate. Still trying to get a working config though.
My opinion though is that OCing the hummingbird processor is useless, and does little for performance on a day-to-day basis and only serves to give you big numbers in benchmarks while reducing battery life.
I mostly used the 1120 step skipping 1000 and scoring serious uv was awesome
Yes, I FINALLY did it!!! I overclocked my G2X. I would appreciate if anyone could share their experiences with o.c. pros and cons... Should I retreat or stay where I am? Please some feed back!
Over 1300 seems to cause trouble on mine.
i dont think oc'ing is really that necessary with a phone this fast but if u must i wouldn't go above 1.3 (just seems unstable above that). I think the "Pros" come from being able to underclock. Setting up profiles for uc'ing when screen is off or as battery level drops etc really prolongs the life of the battery (at least in my case)
On my OG droid that came limited at 550 mhz, ya, oc'ing was def necessary but I cant really think of any "Pros" for oc'ing this phone.
each phone is different though so play around and you'll find a combination that works great for your phone, good luck
Well... you can get some serious bench scores... This thing rocks the Mandelbrot multithread test in smartbench 2011 at 1.5 ghz. Other than that it helps with games.
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wu_wei_lion said:
Well... you can get some serious bench scores... This thing rocks the Mandelbrot multithread test in smartbench 2011 at 1.5 ghz. Other than that it helps with games.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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What about the CPU not having enough cooling and frying the CPU over time. I presume its just like Desktop overclocking but without all the extra cooling you can add to make it safe for the hardware.
tombaker1 said:
What about the CPU not having enough cooling and frying the CPU over time. I presume its just like Desktop overclocking but without all the extra cooling you can add to make it safe for the hardware.
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But what i really want to know is if oc could damage the phone. After all if there is that danger it's noy worth it...
In all honesty I used to be really into benchmark scores and OCing the heck out of my phone and under volting it in the process but that led to many battery pulls ect. What I've noticed is just keep it at stock and mild uving seems to be the best for me its stable decently fast just 2 cents though
Overclocking a cpu is the same as on a pc, only a bit more dangerous on a phone. (This phone already has overheating problems running at stock speeds ) On a computer, people pay a premium for parts that are easily overclocked, and have either very good fans/heatsinks or a liquid cooling rig.
Overclocking is dangerous, especially because not all chips are going to be made equal, even if they come off the same production line. These chips are designed to run at a certain voltage, and certain clock speed. As far as real world use, (NOT benchmarks. Sure, they look pretty and all, but benchmarks are never very accurate.)
Sure, you might get 2-3 more fps on your games, but is that worth the risk of shortening the life of your chip/phone?
(And just so you know, I've been building/overclocking pc's for years, but I also understand what you need to do to keep it stable, and it's *all about cooling*.)
If you're not convinced, try this. Don't overclock your phone, and use it for a few days. Tell me honestly that you really notice a real-usable difference with the chip overclocked or not. (Games set aside, but like I said, getting a couple extra fps on a game to me isn't worth the risk without a proper cooling setup)
For those of you that really don't understand what you're doing to your chips when you overclock, I'd suggest doing some reading about it. A good place to start would be here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclocking
So you think using fauxs kernel is not safe or reduces the life of the chip? I just flashed it and didnt oc or uv further then fauxs default settings...
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I'm not saying it's for sure, I'm saying there's a chance.
Plus keep in mind that these kernels have other really nice additions besides overclocking and undervolting. I'm using faux's stock voltage kernel ext4, and leaving it at stock settings, and it really works great.
I just posted this up because I see a lot of people more interested in quadrant scores (which to me are pretty useless) than stability of their phones. If you do overclock, and it works for you, more power to you. I just want to inform people. I'd HIGHLY suggest if you aren't sure, read that wiki article, it's a great place to start. (not all information is there, but it gives a very good general idea on how and what overclocking is.)
Thanks! i always like reading knowledgeable and informative posts!
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mstrk242 said:
I'm not saying it's for sure, I'm saying there's a chance.
Plus keep in mind that these kernels have other really nice additions besides overclocking and undervolting. I'm using faux's stock voltage kernel ext4, and leaving it at stock settings, and it really works great.
I just posted this up because I see a lot of people more interested in quadrant scores (which to me are pretty useless) than stability of their phones. If you do overclock, and it works for you, more power to you. I just want to inform people. I'd HIGHLY suggest if you aren't sure, read that wiki article, it's a great place to start. (not all information is there, but it gives a very good general idea on how and what overclocking is.)
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OK, you definitely convinced me.... I have also faux (let me tell you exactly - Kernel Version 2.6.32.9 FR Faux 123-v0.03) on EagleBlood 1.05. Could you please tell me what I need to do set up in order to be safe? Thanks!
I'd just go to faux's thread in the development section (his froyo thread, not the cm7 one, since you're using eagleblood), and download his stock voltage kernel. (It's in the first post.) He's on .04 now, by the way.
Then reboot into recovery, and flash the file you downloaded. It'll overwrite your current kernel and modules with the new one, then reboot.
mstrk242 said:
I'd just go to faux's thread in the development section (his froyo thread, not the cm7 one, since you're using eagleblood), and download his stock voltage kernel. (It's in the first post.) He's on .04 now, by the way.
Then reboot into recovery, and flash the file you downloaded. It'll overwrite your current kernel and modules with the new one, then reboot.
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I could not find this thread under G2X Android Development Section... I found threads Kernel Trinity, Kernel CM7, Kernel LGE Stock Froyo, Kernel Morphine... Which one is it...? Please do have some patience, at least I learn fast!
krekabl said:
I could not find this thread under G2X Android Development Section... I found threads Kernel Trinity, Kernel CM7, Kernel LGE Stock Froyo, Kernel Morphine... Which one is it...? Please do have some patience, at least I learn fast!
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You passed right by it. LGE stock froyo. (That doesn't mean it's a stock froyo rom, it means it's *based* on one )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102720
Choose the stock voltage one. (ext3 or 4, depending on your preference.)
mstrk242 said:
You passed right by it. LGE stock froyo. (That doesn't mean it's a stock froyo rom, it means it's *based* on one )
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102720
Choose the stock voltage one. (ext3 or 4, depending on your preference.)
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Thanks you've been very helpful. That's why I made this post I hope this can help other people as well as it's helped me! )
krekabl said:
I could not find this thread under G2X Android Development Section... I found threads Kernel Trinity, Kernel CM7, Kernel LGE Stock Froyo, Kernel Morphine... Which one is it...? Please do have some patience, at least I learn fast!
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And a lot of times the kernel will be credited to the developer. So if you see "faux's kernel" people are referring to kernels by faux123. Trinity kernels were developed by morfic. If you are having a hard time finding a specific one, look at the top left to see who started the thread and sometimes that will help find it. Does that make sense? I had to pull an overnight at work so I am a little loopy....
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Can anyone explain to me what kernels are what is their function? I noticed that the update did not change my kernel. Is that a bad thing that they did not include a new one in the update? Also I am voinv to be installing xboarxers stock. Rom first to root the phone and I want know if I should chance the kernal and what effect it will have. I am taking small steps because want to understand what I am doing. Thank for any help you guys can give me.
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The kernel is the lowest point in the system. It controls how the software communicates with the hardware: how the CPU behaves, how the buttons behave, how the screen functions, etc.
The main use of custom kernels is to Overclock and Undervolt. OC means pushing your CPU to be faster than it was ever intended to be; you get better performance but if overclocked too long, it will be damaged. Worst case scenario, you will literally melt your motherboard. But this is only a danger if you leave it overclocked 24/7 and constantly push the CPU to its limits (playing 3d games for instance)
Faux's kernel can OC to 1.5 GHz and Morfic's can OC to 1.1.
The next common use is Undervolting, which means giving your CPU less electricity than it would like. This again is extremely dangerous if not done properly, but yields noticeably better battery life. Morfic's is the best for UV IMO, though you cannot change the undervolting, he has it locked into what he has found to be the best. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing, as too much UVing will cause potentially serious stability issues with the device. It's not nearly as dangerous as improper OCing (it won't permanently ruin the hardware) but it is a danger. Faux's lets you UV to your heart's content.
Faux's is better if you want performance, because it has higher OC. Morfic's is better if you want battery life, because it has better UV and the CPU clock speeds themselves are better tuned for lower speeds than higher ones.
I absolutely love my faux kernel. its at 1.4 and amazing battery life. The screen sensitivity is awesome. Honestly its all prefrence.... I won't go away from cm7w/ faux
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_%28computing%29
I'd start here. Or just google info on the linux kernel (since that's what android runs on top of.)
Can you flash faux kernel on top of bionix 2
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When you flash a kernel, you just need to know what the base of it is to pick the proper one. There are really only 3 bases at the moment:
1. Stock 2.2 That'd be faux's .5, and I know morfic has some older 2.2 based kernels in his thread.
2. Stock 2.3 (Which faux is working on now, there are a couple floating around)
3. CM7 Faux and morfic both have kernels that work here. (2.3.4 and 2.3.5 based roms use this, miui, and of course cm7 )
Bionix is based on 2.2 (Which I haven't actually checked, but I'm sure it's in the first post.)
For most of them, just read the first post, or even the title. It'll say what it's based on, and then you can flash whatever you want. Just always do a nandroid backup before, you never know if you might for whatever reason have to flash back. If you don't, you need to reinstall your rom (or manually change the kernel and modules, of course) to get back to what the rom came with.
Happy flashing.
If i am running stock rooted GB OTA, can I flash faux's latest Kernel 006 with ext4?? Or do you have to have an ext4 rom to be able to flash ext4 kernels?
Thanks.
Thanks a lot that shed some light on. The subject
So it appears that the dev will tell you which mernels arw compatible with their rom in the thread for that particilar rom. If I want to use eglesblood which is 2.3.4 or.5 xan I use tbe stock kernel? Also what is the difference between the .3 .4 and .5 in the gingerbread make is that carrier specific or moel specific like the blackbwrry 8520 is for tmo and 8530 is for sprint?
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2.3.4 and 2.3.5 are based on cm7 code, so you'd use the cm7 based kernel. (LG hasn't given us 2.3.4 or 2.3.5).
As far as ext4, it's a different file system is all. Faux's kernels mount the data and system partitions as ext4, but don't actually convert them. Morfic's do a full convert. Ext3/4 support is in the kernel, not the rom, so as long as the kernel supports it you can do it. (Which every custom kernel I've seen supports ext4)
If you want more information, google is your friend. Here is a pretty simplistic explanation of the ext2,3,and 4.
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/ext2-ext3-ext4/
As for the differences, 2.3.3 to 2.3.4 had some major framework changes. 2.3.4 to 2.3.5 seems to be only minor bugfixes. If you want full changelogs, I'd google them.
So if I want to use eglesblood then I have to change the kernel too? Do I have to do it separately or is it included in the rom?
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You never *need* to change kernels. Using the kernel that comes with the roms works just fine. Only time you need to change kernels is if you want to overclock, (never really saw the point in it, and quadrant benchmarks are useless.) want tun or cifs support, undervolting, ext4, etc.
If you don't need any of those things, or don't know what they are, just stick with the kernel that comes with the rom.
Okay that's cool so all I have to do is put EB on my SD card and flash away I am thinking about starting simple first with either xboarders stock or tweeked
.
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I'm really very happy with my Nexus S 4G. It's unlocked and rooted, but otherwise pure stock and I really like it that way.
Coming from the Hero it's a pleasure to have a phone that doesn't require heavy modification to make it perform properly. Still, I miss the thrill of flashing ROM's and kernels.
I would like to try a kernel...mainly to simply o/c a bit, but I don't want it to suffer stable and reliable operation. I recall with the Hero, some of the kernels would adversely affect things like the GPS, making it something I couldn't rely on.
So my question: what kernel can I use that is uncapped, but will otherwise be as close to stock as possible?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Kernels are pretty different over here. I don't even know what's closest to stock. They pretty much all have mods in them. Matr1x kernel is pretty popular. You may have to up the voltage for it if you oc to 14xx. 1200 seemed pretty stable to me with default voltages. Currently franco kernel is pretty popular. You can't oc it, but it seems pretty snappy without oc. GLaDOS is also being used a bit but i've read some mixed reviews and for me at least it did seem a little lagging at times for the short period I ran it. I tried Trinity kernel when I first moved over from the hero and it seemed kind of flaky though it's possible that could have been due to the kang I was running. There are a few others out there. Cm7 kernel has a lot of the same mods cooked in though it's likely not the latest updates. You will see a lot of mention of BLN and Voodoo. There are apps on the market for those features and there's an app nstools that has some kernel config settings you can adjust depending on kernel. Mainly just try to read a lot. Most of the roms and kernels haven't given me any major issues beyond the random reboot, which coming from the hero, just means "normal" lol.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G running CM7/franco.Kernel
Once you flash you can't stop O_O that my experience i'll direct you to Peteralfonso's kernel on his website here
Searching the forums would help you more than anything. You will get more info by searching, rather waiting people to reply here. These questions are asked on daily basis. And get the same replies everyday. I don't sound to be mean but seriously there is more info than you can get by starting another thread, only thing is you need to dig the info.
I have tried a few different roms and kernels and for once cm7 runs perfect for me w the supplied kernel. No reboots. Has been stable at 1440 performance for testing but I usually leave it at 1000 on demand.
Yeah they all have this blinking light crap in it now by default which I hate, and the lights turn off and I don't like that either. I want the light on when I'm using the phone and off when I'm not, not the other way around!
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I like the bln mod, but I do not like the one that turns off the backlights when using the phone. It's just easier to use the buttons imo and gives a quicker visual reference for everything. Otherwise I mostly am left wondering what is up with all the black space.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G running CM7/franco.Kernel
suhas_sm said:
Searching the forums would help you more than anything. You will get more info by searching, rather waiting people to reply here. These questions are asked on daily basis. And get the same replies everyday. I don't sound to be mean but seriously there is more info than you can get by starting another thread, only thing is you need to dig the info.
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I hear you on that, and spent a lot of time reading comments and concerns and problems about the various kernels available. They all seem to pretty much be experimental, with various idiosyncratic problems and lots of bells and whistles such as aforementioned BLN, Voodoo, deep idle, etc.
I thought maybe I was missing something in my search for a kernel that would allow o/c, but not have the stability concerns of a the feature-rich, highly customizable kernels.
I think the Matr1x kernel will be your best option, u can OC it till 1400mhz, what I don't recommend to do, but at 1200/1300mhz its pretty stable.
It also got many options like BLN, BLX, Live OC, touch wake, etc.
But if you don't want them, why you just don't use 'em?
Like just flash the kernel and keep it like it is, and maybe do some overclocking.
wanna stable ? stock kernel
basically , there is no kernel more stable then stock ...
qtwrk said:
wanna stable ? stock kernel
basically , there is no kernel more stable then stock ...
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True, but he prefers to OC it a bit.
Sent from my Nexus S
franciscofranco's kernel (link) works best for me. It's fast (no lags even without OC, I'm running at stock 1000 MHz), reliable (I've been using it for at least month and I haven't got any random reboots or application hangs) and battery efficient (thanks to deep idle and other tweaks).
irizwan said:
Once you flash you can't stop O_O that my experience i'll direct you to Peteralfonso's kernel on his website here
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+1
Never found a more stable kernel than Pete's. However, I've been on Glados for the last week or so and am seeing excellent battery life with Deep Idle.
Icecoldmeat said:
True, but he prefers to OC it a bit.
Sent from my Nexus S
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personally i think overclock is totally unnecessary , why ? 1 GHz is sufficient to handle all job you require to the phone...
Best thing to do would be compile your own stock kernel with oc.
qtwrk said:
personally i think overclock is totally unnecessary , why ? 1 GHz is sufficient to handle all job you require to the phone...
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True again. I love 1100mhz because it gives you a bit more speed with no lagg, and you batterylife is still awesome.
Sent from my Nexus S
deville~> said:
franciscofranco's kernel (link) works best for me. It's fast (no lags even without OC, I'm running at stock 1000 MHz), reliable (I've been using it for at least month and I haven't got any random reboots or application hangs) and battery efficient (thanks to deep idle and other tweaks).
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with deep idle OFF, the difference between the two is minimal, idle stats displayed deep idle has been 0
Downloaded and testing peter alfonso's kernel now. Its very minimalistic, no options like deep idle etc, and u can OC it up to 1400mhz. Running 400-1100mhz for a day now and the battery life is just awesome.
U can find it on:
http://www.peteralfonso.com
Sent from my Nexus S
albundy2010 said:
Best thing to do would be compile your own stock kernel with oc.
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Or one with LiveOC which is kinda better cause it also OC the GPU =D
+1
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the akward moment when someone said they +1'd you but actually didn't -_-
there're too many to choose.i don't like the ones that update so often indeed.