Database Info

Possible PSP-esque war between Google/Tmobile and hackers?

What does everyone think will happen with future revisions of Android in regards to the fork between the stock G1s with OTA updates and the hacked G1s with manual updates with the test keys?
Hopefully this doesn't turn into Sony's militant locking down of the PSP via every firmware upgrade. Even though I never owned a PSP, I thought it was absolutely insane that Sony would try so hard to keep people from using their purchased equipment in any way they wanted to.
I totally understand that Google had to release RC30 to shut down a GIGANTIC security exploit that could have (but not likely) been used compromise phones. I'm sure it's in their interest to keep a homogeneous G1 userbase but would they actively try to relock rooted phones?
I'm hoping they just leave the rooted G1s alone. Mostly because we bought the phones and they are OURS. We are obligated to stay with Tmobile until the contract is up because the price is subsidized but we are not obligated (in my opinion) to retain the software they were shipped with. Obviously if my phone has a software problem I won't be calling Tmobile. On the other hand, if there is a hardware defect I'm certainly reflashing RC30 and sending it back under warranty.
I would like to hear everyone's opinion. I think it was great that Tmobile UK was good enough to open a dialog about possibly allowing root access but I don't think they really understand what "root access" is or care as long as they sell phones under contract. I don't think Google really cares either since they have open sourced all of the OS that we are modifying which is in the spirit of Open Source Software anyway. I think as long as they get their marketshare, they will be happy.

I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers...next i dont thnk that google would do this but t-moble might.But in my opinion i think they will as soon as they start hacking the pay apps. that will start later this year.

HOGWILD said:
I dont think so first off the psp hackers down load games so the dont have to pay for them they lose millions each year on the hackers
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Hogwild hit the nail right on the head. I don't think T-Mo/HTC will engage in a drawn out battle to "steal" back root simply because there is no real financial motivation to do so. I'm of the mind that it's best not to begin speculating unless one of the aforementioned company takes a step in that direction. There's no point whipping up another possible flame-war over something that might never happen.

Ya I agree they are our phones 1 thing you left out not everybody is under contract some ppl paid full price on a prepaid 90 service plan then they get their unlock code. Some people didn't qualify for the upgrade price of 179$ and some people are under contract eiither of all three it is owned by the user the day they signed or paid. Tmobile won't take back a used g1 for failure to honor the 2 year agreement they will bill the customer.
So the whole open source push... and market. There and hundreds of. Thousands of programmers who make programs for the love of advancing "things" look how popular sourceforge is. So you get people who will create a program and demand a nominal fee say 14.95 the dev only gets 70% of the price and the wireless carrier get 30% for nothing. I . Defently there being an underground "market place" that bypasses that standard one to allow people to download free apps. The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
My 2 cents

diabolical28 said:
The most exciting thing that everyone is about the market being a paid app is stopping all the comments of the retarded people in the market place
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There are a lot of idiots in the world with money to waste. Rest assured, the paid apps will have retarded comments as well.

qft
rabble:rabble

Wow I hate people that don't know what they talking bout. I wanna clear up a few thing. Being a psp dev I can tell you it wasn't bout the hacking and homebrew. the psp updates were to stop piracy. Btw most exploit on psp were by sony. If you own a psp atlease you would know a little about the scene. Secondly, the root bug is dangerous to us. Google own dev are helping us htc people are leaking tools and t-mobile always let us screw them over. So no it not gonna be no war going on it all for our safety untill the software is right. As you can see we're like test bunnys and when a bug you should be greatful that they release update. So while I love having root access it not that serious right now it just would be right to compare this to the iphone jailbreak scene. Once paid app are here I wouldn't be shock if update start coming to block test key and resigning to respect developer work. Read before posting and short answer no unless as needed

There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.

danguyf said:
There's not going to be a homogenous Android ecosystem to begin with because each carrier will tailor it to their own needs, and possibly to each handset.
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Correct. And you can bet that there will be handsets running builds of Android not maintained by Google which will not run Android Market. Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves. I'm concerned that that fracturing of the ecosystem will impede overall market acceptance. And i'm not even talking about the inevitable outcome of Android "strains" that slowly become sdk incompatible with each other.
Here's a posting I made on android-platform and Dianne Hackborn's response:
Right, I'm thinking along the device manufacturer side of things. As
an imperfect analogy, is the Android team okay with manufacturers
producing their own Android builds which may be slightly incompatible
with each other (a la Symbian's various flavors), or will all
manufacturers be encouraged/required to adhere to some technical
requirements checklists in order to brand their phone as Android-
powered? (more like say Windows Mobile).
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We won't, this is something we will be actively discouraging (or from a
positive perspective, doing whatever we can to encourage android devices
to be compatible).
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Of course with an open source project "actively discouraging" can only go so far...

jashsu said:
Whatever carrier releases it will want to funnel that 30% revenue to themselves.
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The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."

From what I've heard from Google folks, they aren't that interested in the root thing, that is more a carrier issue. However, the way people originally got root was a serious issue. Not directly because you could get root, but because it was an outright silly bug than could potentially raise havoc on your device if you happened to type the wrong thing on your keyboard.

JesusFreke said:
The carriers already get that 30%.
From the android dev blog
"Starting in early Q1, developers will also be able to distribute paid apps in addition to free apps. Developers will get 70% of the revenue from each purchase; the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees—Google does not take a percentage. We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers."
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I imagine the billing settlement fees could be rather sizeable. I don't run a credit card processing company, but i've seen $.20 - $.30 per transaction thrown around. That's in line with Paypal's fees.
We'll see if other manufacturer/carrier matchups continue to use Android Market. I wouldn't be surprised to see them create their own markets though, simply because if it's possible and there's the slightest financial incentive to do so, eventually someone will do it.

I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
Sony did not want homebrew for multiple reasons. The obvious one is ISO playback. No matter what they did, warez was possible. Even back before we had perfected the actual emulation, we could simply patch calls to disc0:/ to ms0:/ and load the EBOOT. If we hadn't figured out how (the first one to truly do it was UMD Emulator, which would patch many of the PSP calls to make it MUCH smoother/more compatible), we could simply expand on this.
The second reason is that we were stepping on their toes, so to speak. They wanted to have many more downloadable minigames that could be booted off of the memstick, something we did years before them. I doubt they liked that we were doing what they planned, and doing it much better/faster.
Thirdly, they were responsible for all bricked devices. Although their unbricking process has always been easy, it costs them time/shipping. It's still a pain and costly for them to do it massively.
This is why they combated it on the PSP so much. On the standard Playstations, they've never had to worry about it this much. They didn't have memory cards that you could easily throw ISOs on, they didn't have any easily loaded software that would allow you to boot them, etc. You had to buy hardware devices (hdloader, the swap program (ffs can't remember the name), or modchips). Pirating the PSP was SO much easier.
Now, onto the G1... a Google employee has already (off the record, speaking for himself, not Google) that they should have just given us root access, especially if HTC was going to be so careless with their NBH images.
If every one was given root access, cracking paid applications would be much easier. Well, that is the belief. In reality, cracking them will be a sinch. With easily done byte code modification, and resigning the APK, I doubt there's an application that CAN'T be cracked. As long as you could install apps from browser/SD card, you can crack them. Even if they locked it down to market only, we could spoof DNS servers and run "unofficial" markets with cracked applications. This wouldn't require root access at all.
(excuse any typos, it's 10F outside atm and I'm trying to smoke.)

Gary13579 said:
I was in the PSP scene for a long time, admin at one of the largest PSP sites, net admin on the largest PSP IRC server, and had several contacts within Sony's Playstation department. So I know how the scene went pretty well.
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I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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The last time I used my PSP was a year ago, as a flash drive so I could reformat my computer. I haven't actually *used* it in years, so anything you saw on QJ wasn't about the real Gary .
But yes that's me, and I was an admin at Dash Hacks.

aron4588 said:
I know you, your from www.psp-hacks.com huh Dash Hacks Network is my only source lol hey didn't you recently do some homebrew app i remember seeing something bout you on qj. lol your coding for g1 now? maybe a nice irc for g1?
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Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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Lol what? fIRC lets you connect to any server and any channel.

diabolical28 said:
Yes please a "full irc client would be nice." there is a "irc client" if you can call it that in the market called Firc it is a neat program then you come to figure out the dev is running the only channel it can join as ops and Perm bans any user not on a G1. Also at his discretion. Seems to much like a plug to me soon enough he will add an ADbot you watch and people with accidently click the hell out of the ad links .
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http://code.google.com/p/androidirc/

[Q] Twin Blades - No Longer in Market Place

Any idea as to what happened to Twin Blades?how come its no longer in market place. thanks

http://www.wpcentral.com/twin-blades-pulled-marketplace

Going the way of Apple, eh? but luckily Apple changed, hence the advent of great games like Resident Evil and Dead Space

its a disappointment indeed. im also wondering as to why they need to take out twin blades from market place because of the mature rating? not all kids can buy a device that is costly as windows phone, and to think most windows phone owners are matured enough to handle such content.
if this is the case, good and exciting games are being removed from circulation, i think i might as well stick with my wii. too bad wii doesnt have phone integration lol.
thanks for the info

slighmd said:
Going the way of Apple, eh? but luckily Apple changed, hence the advent of great games like Resident Evil and Dead Space
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Yeah they changed alright, hence the requirement for all apps that use external subscription (Kindle, B&N, Rhapsody..you name it) to instead go through in-app purchases, giving Apple a nice 30% cut. That's right. They want 30% of Kindle's sales that go through iPhone.

I'd argue that a "Mature" rating from the ESRB is not the same as what Microsoft meant originally when referring to "Mature Content" in their Marketplace rules. There has to be some common sense about this stuff. Blood and gore is not the same as porn.

Damn
I bought the app months ago, but installed a new sd card. Does anyone know who I can contact about getting the game again or refund my money. Rather have the game, it was great to waste five or ten minutes.

Please keep things other than app releases OUT of WP7 Apps and Games, and please read the stickied rules at the top of each forum you are in.
~~Tito~~

It sucks, bit keep in mind kids can sometimes purchase this stuff without parental consent. Theonly way to prevent this from happening is to just not let it get on the marketplace. Google hs a no porn policy for Android market, ad well. I can name examples of apps that were pulled from well known entities, but I don't want to go there...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

I'm guessing it might have been less the blood and gore, and more the lesbian undertones of the cut scenes.

is there anyway of getting this back or a refund?

x0xwolverinex0x said:
is there anyway of getting this back or a refund?
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As for as know there are no refunds. I was able to find a copy on a site that goes against xda's policy.

One article was stating the dev my be out of business not a marketplace issue.
Never played it anyone got the xap?

you can still download it in private market place if you have a full unlock rom

[Q] why develop paid games and apps for android?

ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.

z33dev33l said:
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
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lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay

jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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You are absolutely right my friend.even though I know where I can find those pirated stuff I bought talking tom, fruit ninja, file downloader plus from the market.respect you in this aspect that people pay

jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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well I'm on wp7 I i understand paying for apps. I've bought 13 Xbox live titles. Robo defense though has been around since my g1 was still a big device, pirating android apps didn't really start til after the Verizon droid came out and android went mainstream, sure it was there but it wasn't so easy. My stepmom could not navigate Facebook on her computer but she knows how to pirate apps, its made too easy. When I paid 9.99 for zenonia the day it came out and my friend pirated it for free 3 days I i was pretty peeved. These things are just far too easy on android and right now I'm considering if it's worth porting my new RPG over to android or not...

Are you trying to say that you cant pirate wp7 apps? Or that wp7 users have better morals than us droids?

Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.

When I was a young poor student I was going to the torrent sites for all the software i use. Today i use linux at home( i'd buy a legal os otherwise) and buy all my apps from the market.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App

aFo3262 said:
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
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Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.

I guess because the majority of users will stay pay for a game or app that they want.
It's the same with PC software and games...many people crack and download them for free, but the majority will still pay for them.

You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.

rogier666 said:
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
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And yet people are still making computer programs.
To some developers the trade off is worth it even when you factor in piracy. Look at how many indie games don't have drm making an app is pretty much the same. There are enough people who will buy the app to make a living off of
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

ok, that is very interesting

dardragon said:
And yet people are still making computer programs.
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Of course.
Piracy is just a bit of background noise. Most pirates wouldn't have bought the app anyway.

What I get from the people around me, is that if the app is good enough or do fit their needs, they're willing to pay for it.
I like to see it this way:
When I get hungry I go to a vending machine a buy let say a Mars or something for 1 euro.
When I'm bored and I have to wait for a few minutes, I look on the android market and buy a funny game for about that same amount of money.
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.

An app is not a Mars bar.
Candy bars are not free. If you want a Nuts or a Bounty instead of a Mars you'll still have to pay.
For every paid app there's a free alternative. Usually there are many free alternatives, and the market has a built-in feature to find the free beer.
The Android Market has a "related apps" link. What other markets force their merchants to provide free advertising for their competitors in their very own market stall?

Tricky-Design said:
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
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Spot on.
Ive paid for damn near every app on my phone. I appreciate the work and am more than willing to contribute. And still, all in all, ive spent maybe 15bucks total in the past 4months. Seriously, apps are one of the more affordable ( and not to mention hella convenient) luxuries in this day and age(and in this economy).
Try and go see a movie these days? How much?
Go buy a board game at wal- mart? How much?
Go to the arcade? (if you can find one anymore) how much?
Go buy a book at books a million? How much?

xaccers said:
Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
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Click to collapse
you should really look at the general profit margins from OS to OS, even your average developer makes more on wp7 than android because as someone already stated, there's a free version of pretty much everything on android and what's not can be pirated. Then there's the fragmentation for every app that was made for 2.1 plus. Sure, you CAN pirate on wp7, its a long, complex process that doesn't work fully on Xbl games and actually requires some knowledge, its not androids out-of-box pirating or iOSes one click jailbreak with everything done for you. Its the only OS that adds some level of complexity to doing such things and that little bit is more than enough for your average user.

Next OS ; WHY CANT I MAKE AS MUCH ON WP7 APPS random_os001 makes more WAHHHH
(YEAR OR TWO LATER~!) RANDOM_os002 WAS RELEASED (os001 sorry ur gonna lose money now unless u try to stick with the pack.)

The not so hidden evil of smartphones

This is just a wee rant, but i hope it makes folk think a wee bit
Right now, regardless of your Smartphone faction allegiances, we have a number of great devices, including iPhones, Androids, Windows Phones, and even good old Windows Mobiles, All of them great in their own wee ways
But something curious is happening which may have escaped us in the never ending quest to make us upgrade or buy new devices and that’s the "App store"
Personally, i think this "App" name is kind of annoying but perhaps that’s just my age coming in to it again, it’s also beside the point. Forget the differences in names, we all know what it is and by App store I’m talking about all of them
Anyhow, these app stores have a lot to answer for, some of us spend a fortune on them, all those "cheap" programs you’ve downloaded over the past years, many of which you may have even forgot you own maybe nibbled away at your pay cheque. So what happens when one day the unthinkable happens, your fan boy world is rocked too its feet when the satanic Enemy you have despised all these years actually takes your fancy, an after a bit of thinking, sleeping with the devil for that thing doesn’t sound too bad a deal at all, after all, this device IS better, its OS is better, it suites your needs more an damn it, it just looks cool too.
But here lies your problem, you have been chained to an app store for a while now, you’ve picked up many apps an maybe even some STDs, its cost you lots of money and you can bet your life that you cant transfer your apps to this "other" OS, So you have a choice, do you stay with the older phone knowing for well that the phone of your dreams is but a stone throw away or do you say, to hell with my old apps, give it to me now!!
Of course everyone is different, but to ignore the fact that nothing lasts forever and assume that your OS will always be the best would be naive, remember, these companies all have a vested interest in keeping you with them, and getting you on the app store of THEIR choice is one very good way of doing it,
Of Course none of this is new, Windows Mobile was similar but we didnt have choice then, now we do, Hopefully it might make you think twice before shelling out for junk you don’t need, your device might be the best now, but it won’t always be.

Ummm, Here's the best part about me...
I've only bought apps when that 10 cents sale was going on, and only spent $1.80 USD.
Being cheap rules...

Is this post about switching OS's or phones? I'm confused.

True, but it dont think thats always the case, my 6 year old kid managed to blow about a tenner within only a few min, buying cheap helps but if we take google as an example, they dont sell android, they make shed loads of money on advertising and you buying stuff, its in all of their interests to keep you buying programs on their app stores, the more you buy the less likely you are to leave them
They are all EVIL i tell you
^that was a joke

lowandbehold said:
Is this post about switching OS's or phones? I'm confused.
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OSs, you wouldnt have a problem with your apps if you stayed on the same OS, at least one would hope not, point taken tho, couple of wee changes added

i have a literal butt-load of apps for my iphone i have no hope of ever being able to use again. i had my phone stolen during that dark time when the iphone was not available to buy on pay as you go (dark dark times...), and so had to switch to a different smartphone os. at the time it was a htc desire, and i just never looked back, really. partly because i look at iphones and just think "hmm... nothing much's changed. same old same old..."
in an ideal world i'd be able to run my android apps on my windows phone, and have the best of both worlds - but that isn't going to happen any time soon. the best compromise i can see is "buy for one platform, buy for all" - why should i have to re-buy my apps for a different platform? why can't i buy one and be able to download the same version available for different platforms? steam does it with some pc games - including a mac version for free with your purchase. hell, there are even ways to run one os on another kind of machine, so you're not truly "tied" into something like with phones.
/end rant

dazza9075 said:
OSs, you wouldnt have a problem with your apps if you stayed on the same OS, at least one would hope not, point taken tho, couple of wee changes added
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Haha, thanks, that was actually my original comment. Then I thought about it and reread the post and assumed you were talking about the OS and not just the phone...hence the reason for the edit!

Welcome to the wonderful world of vendor lock-in.

I still don't understand why so many of you are so desperate for these website bookmarks with GUIs aka most apps out there. Or, there are 20 task managers, they still do they SAME exact thing as the stock one; there's nothing wrong with the stock one; so, why the heck would you even want an alternate one?
What happened to the days where, if you just had mobile internet access, that in itself was an extreme convenience and everyone had the patience to access every other site via browser?
What about battery life? Do you REALLY need to have 20 email and social network apps and widgets update every 10 minutes? Not really. If its something very important, I'm sure the party who needs to reach you can text or call you.
All of that said, I personally prefer the "older" solutions to this smartphone problem such as Nokia and their Symbian os. Bare, simple, but never fails, doesn't eat battery like 5 starving children, and you don't really have to worry about keeping up with these apps or too many updates. Oh, did I mention FREE gps with FREE downloadable maps, that doesn't even require data connection to be used?

dazza9075 said:
This is just a wee rant, but i hope it makes folk think a wee bit
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Ive always been wary of this as well. Its part of the reason I get the phones I do, At least there should be enough concepts, designs and hardware variations using my O/S to keep me happy. Also even though I have many programmes now I try not to get too trigger happy in the market.

Honestly, I pirated like crazy on android, it was too easy. The upgrade to wp7 was painless.

That's why I always think twice about buying an app. So far I've spent only about $15 on android, another $15 on iOS, and $9 on webos. I have friends who have spent hundreds on iOS. It's impossible to honestly recommend anything other than the iPhone to them.
I did pirate two apps though. The MLB app which they tried to sell for $15 on top of the subscription fees. If I'm already paying them $20 a month, it's unreasonable to tack on an extra $15. The other is the logmein app which was originally $30, but they have dropped the price to free. I would have never bought either one if I had to pay full price so it's not like they lost a sale.

I have never spent a dime on an app for any platform. I used an iphone for about 2 years and switched to Android about a year ago. I honestly don't worry about it. I can find free apps that do everything I want to do. I guess that might come from the fact that i am a Linux user as well. I have been trained to find something that works.
---------- Post added at 04:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 AM ----------
bleach168 said:
I did pirate two apps though. The MLB app which they tried to sell for $15 on top of the subscription fees. If I'm already paying them $20 a month, it's unreasonable to tack on an extra $15. The other is the logmein app which was originally $30, but they have dropped the price to free. I would have never bought either one if I had to pay full price so it's not like they lost a sale.
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That's the thing about pirating that I don't think content owners understand. The movie and recording industry claim multi billion dolor losses due to piracy but in reality the people that pirated it had absolutely no intention of buying it in the first place and would not have whether the pirated copy existed or not. So basically they lost no money but have that may more people talking about how good it is. To me that sounds like marketing, not piracy.

"Piracy" isn't in the topic title people...

Wiggy Fuzz said:
in an ideal world i'd be able to run my android apps on my windows phone, and have the best of both worlds - but that isn't going to happen any time soon. the best compromise i can see is "buy for one platform, buy for all" - why should i have to re-buy my apps for a different platform? why can't i buy one and be able to download the same version available for different platforms? steam does it with some pc games - including a mac version for free with your purchase. hell, there are even ways to run one os on another kind of machine, so you're not truly "tied" into something like with phones.
/end rant
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It is unfortunate, but the reality is this will never change. If you tied the big 4 together effectively their revenue would be a lot less, in the case of apple and google anyway, and to be fair, programs from one market wont work on another markets devices, there has to be some work involved todo that so who gets paid for it.
Steam isnt a good compare, as its only 1 vendor, for it to be equal to phones you would need a situation similar to steam selling a game that origin also sells, why should you buy it twice?
In an ideal world you would have a new company that acted like a app store, hosting multiple platforms, of course the big 4 wouldnt like that as it wouldnt tie you to them and they would lose revenue
as far as i can tell, unless you dont mind wasting money, the best solution is to simply not buy anything.
Skv012a said:
What happened to the days where, if you just had mobile internet access, that in itself was an extreme convenience and everyone had the patience to access every other site via browser?
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Completely agree, im not going to get in to a which OS is best debate but thats the sole reason for the OS i use, without downloading any extra it does everything i want out of the box, its a phone with extras, ie, a smartphone
LogisticsXLS said:
"Piracy" isn't in the topic title people...
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it may not be on topic but it is an intersting side effect of the problem
If we role back the clock a few years well before the smartphone era, we have Windows Mobile, i bought a lot of programs for that OS an i still love it
But when i did eventually change i didnt mind buying new programs, after all, the developers had long since stopped developing, newer versions where only available on newer OSs, if they were available at all!
But here lies one part of the problem, now your not tied to older versions of your programs if you stay on any given market, all markets have the same program all be it coded differently so can you really steal something that you have already bought, or is it more likle that you are not buy buying anything,
what exactly are you "buying" when you hit the app stores? The program? the right to "use" a program, the right to use a program on one OS?

kind of a double post

I have over $200 worth of iOS apps that I have no device for. I'm actually considering getting an iPod Touch for a PMP and because I have so many iOS Apps. I'm pretty much waiting for the iPod Touch that has the iPhone 4/4s design but that's another story.

8mileroad said:
I have over $200 worth of iOS apps that I have no device for. I'm actually considering getting an iPod Touch for a PMP and because I have so many iOS Apps. I'm pretty much waiting for the iPod Touch that has the iPhone 4/4s design but that's another story.
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81 bucks in apps on windows phone 7. It doesn't matter, the second someone releases an OS that can compare, I'll jump ship.

vdub12 said:
That's the thing about pirating that I don't think content owners understand. The movie and recording industry claim multi billion dolor losses due to piracy but in reality the people that pirated it had absolutely no intention of buying it in the first place and would not have whether the pirated copy existed or not. So basically they lost no money but have that may more people talking about how good it is. To me that sounds like marketing, not piracy.
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indeed their stuck in the past, the whole system is broken, if people were being rational, they would allow a universal app store, prices would increase and fees would be paid to the various OS makes for using their systems, the customer would end up paying a small amount more per app to fund the additional third party but everything else remains the same only you would have access to all markets that the software makers designed for
z33dev33l said:
81 bucks in apps on windows phone 7. It doesn't matter, the second someone releases an OS that can compare, I'll jump ship.
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then its nice to have disposible income but when that day comes an it might be awhile away, if youve spent a lot more i wonder if you'll think the same then, if it were me, and someone told me id have to take a £100 note out of my pocket and burn it to move devices, at the very least, id be a bit cheesed off!

dazza9075 said:
indeed their stuck in the past, the whole system is broken, if people were being rational, they would allow a universal app store, prices would increase and fees would be paid to the various OS makes for using their systems, the customer would end up paying a small amount more per app to fund the additional third party but everything else remains the same only you would have access to all markets that the software makers designed for
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Which completely eliminates brand loyalty, I hear often that people only stick to android/iOS when they try my lumia because they'd have to buy all their apps again.

Android Piracy is causing Developers to 2nd guess the platform

We all know how easy it is to cheat developers and find apk's on the internet. Well it seems developers are complaining and if nothing is done then they will focus on the iphone appstore matketplace. More details in this articule http://androidprirates.blogspot.com/

Ever heard of installous on iOS? Piracy will find a way. If most resort to only iOS, chances are piracy on the Apple platform will also skyrocket.
The thing is, trying to fight piracy head on is an uphill battle, and after so many legislations, millions spent on safeguards and lawyers, and bashed sites (megaupload, piratebay?) pirated stuff is as easy to access as before (and for a lot of stuff, its even easier today).
I believe that if piracy is costing so much money, then there's a problem with the business model. Labels and record companies had to accept this when they adapted the napster model to online stores like iTunes and Netflix, and stopped charging ridiculous amounts of money for CD and DVD without added value (remember the last time you paid 30 or 40 bucks for a 10 song CD back in the 90s? Now its usually a buck per song).
Bringing down sites that offer pirated apps will cost more money than what it's worth, it's just information that can and will be put up again in a docen other microsites.
Troughout history it's the black illegal market that has innovated and pushed the legal market fordward to meet people's demands. In this case, i believe a lot of piracy on android is the result of not having alternative payment methods (how i long for iTunes-like prepaid cards on the playstore). Also, such an open source platform could make better use of the add-serving model the internet is based on, after all, that's how Google makes money anyway.

Well it's impossible to stop piracy. They should just make app's cheaper and more people will simply buy it. Profit for everyone.

Don't assume that 100% of pirated app downloads were going to be bought. But the issues facing Android with piracy are no different than Windows for example. Nowadays most expensive Windows programs contain a way of activating online when first installed and some even check the software key when downloading updates. Even with this, there are still pirates that get around activation. But there are still plenty of programs and games being made for Windows even though its had these problems with piracy for decades, despite what "Don't Copy That Floppy" warned. I don't see Android being any different, developers and Google Play will just adapt better app activation.

spunker88 said:
I don't see Android being any different, developers and Google Play will just adapt better app activation.
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Absolutely agree with you on that. The only way to fight piracy is better protection and online activation can improve this situation (like in case with the activation via Steam account for PC games).

Even though there is piracy in appstore , I still think android is much easier to pirate. There is no jailbreaking needed , just one click and install.

There's no point removing sites like this.Pirates are gonna find a way around it. just make apps cheaper and people will buy them

Yeah your right plus the googleplay store isnt good when it comes to refund. You can buy the game save the apk , then get a refund. Its like there is no way developers can win.

I got a question for android developer here on xda-developers , how has piracy effected your games or what do you do to make some money on andriod market.

What are the ways you made money ADs, IAP, etc. Share your tactics to go around piracy!!

A person from india recently commented on my blog that the reason for android piracy in india is there are no ways to pay , so the only choice you have is to pirate games and apps.

Piracy is ultimately inevitable. Trying to stop it is just pointless
Sent from my SCH-I535

True you can't stop piracy but there are signs that piracy on the mobile platforms are slowing down. This was the reason that Installous shutdown because they weren't having as much traffic as they used to.

zarpy said:
We all know how easy it is to cheat developers and find apk's on the internet. Well it seems developers are complaining and if nothing is done then they will focus on the iphone appstore matketplace.
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nobody really cares, Android is primary OS for developing countries, like Brasil, India, China, Africa, east europe & cis, and if google would DRM its Play well ppl in that part of world will turn to some opensource alternatives like Firefox OS, Meego, Tizen etc etc. And Google will find itself with declining android phones sells and even less revenue. It's like with Windows, till Vista it was easy to pirate and B.Gates intentionally did that to grab market share from Apple. And only then, in 8th version they made some good antipiracy lock with addition to cheap affordable price. Now it's easier to pay $70 for upgrade from W7 to W8 than look for loaders and sorts

To combat piracy, provide value added services to legit owners like perhaps a unified scoreboard, gaming social features, and more. Similar to steam.
Also, malware should be encouraged to propagate outside the play store lol
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

Markuzy said:
To combat piracy, provide value added services to legit owners like perhaps a unified scoreboard, gaming social features, and more. Similar to steam.
Also, malware should be encouraged to propagate outside the play store lol
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
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Dam malware hahaha no that would be going too far but I remember reading a case were a developer uploaded a non-working game to a torrent site to boost downloads.