Database Info

[Q] HTC Support History - Ditch HTC??

HTC seem to be developing a history of dropping development and support on their models after 6 months, which is extremely annoying unless you like to upgrade every 6 months. Is this false? Or should we all migrate away from HTC to other phones for this reason? My particular interest is in Android.
I was going to get my wife a HTC Desire Z but now I'm wondering if she's better off with an Android phone from a brand with a support history longer than 6 months.

Which Android vendor provides you with long support?
For me, I have just bought a HTC Dream more than 2 years after its release because there are tons of custom roms on xda. The Dream lives on because of the large community.
Make sure what you buy is a popular phone, so when official support stops you would stil get new roms from the community.

Inclined to agree, I have the original Desire so I am reading up on rooting and custom ROMs. Any suggestions or warnings?

DroidBois said:
Inclined to agree, I have the original Desire so I am reading up on rooting and custom ROMs. Any suggestions or warnings?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take your time and read those stickies on the Desire forums. You'll be glad you did.
To OP, I think most are about the same. Though, I am still a little annoyed at the whole TyTN II debacle a few years ago, lol. For me, it really comes down to build quality and not much competes with HTC. Especially when they try. Like the HD2.

I sure am taking my time. I am the kind of person who drives everyone nuts with questions on every detail.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

This site is a benefit to anyone who uses it. It will extend the life of your phone. Many of the manufacturers will drop support after a few months. Most don't provide upgrades to software. Being able to use this site provides you with both: technical support for problems and upgraded software as newer versions becomes available.
My advice to you; buy a phone supported by XDA. If its not on here, don't buy it...
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Wise words. I am so thankful I got the STOCK factory standard unlocked / unbranded AMOLED UK HTC Desire now, that's about as 'vanilla' as you can get by the sounds of it and I should be ok for ROM support then. Now to work out the right rooting / ROM procedure and which ROM to use!!

First Impressions

I currently own the Sony Ericson Xperia x10a and tbh with the work of a few devs here at XDA have turned that phone into something extrodinary even though they still havnt managed to crack the bootloader. Mine runs on Android 2.3 and is blazing fast and beats even the Nexus 2.2 on Quadrant Scores.. I run a Linpak of 41 MFLOPS.
My question to the HTC guys is this. Apparently RoM development and debranding / rooting of HTC phones seem to be more indepth then what i am used to. SE has a flash tool that will Root / Flash any custom rom with the easiest of ease lol. Along with xrecovery its extremely simple.
Overall I guess I am wondering if this phone is worth it. How hard will it be to cook up roms and tweek boot.log files to speed this phone up. Is the processor over clockable or is it not completely rooted yet. Do you think HTC and ATT will actualy continue to update the software on this phone or will it fall to the wayside like soo many other ATT phones have.
It is gonna take some reading and browsing to understand how HTC phones work compared to SE but I think I can do it, just curiouse to know if its gonna be worth the trouble.

If ATT decides not to update this phone beyond Froyo then you will still have CyanogenMod7 with Gingerbread.

This phone has been out for less than a week. Source hasn't dropped yet.
HTC phones are quite popular with developers and HTC doesn't discourage development like Sony and Motorola seem to.
I moved to the Inspire from the Captivate for this very reason.
Since this phone is identical in almost every way to the European Desire HD, once we get Kernel Source, porting stuff from that phone to this one will be trivial.
One Click Root hasn't been found yet, but I'm not sure it exists on any 2.2.1 Android device.(I could be wrong about that I haven't investigated it).
To sum up, this is a great phone to get if you are into tweaking and custom roms.

Hey gunny. Super one click works on some 2.2.1 phones with the psneuter exploit.
And to the op the Inspire is an amazing phone. There's no one click root but its not terribly difficult to root and in the coming weeks I'm sure well see some amazing stuff come down the pipeline.
Sent from a patiently waiting Inspire 4g using XDA app

[Q] Predictions on the bootloader

Since I have very little technical knowledge, I want to ask the people who do: Do you think the signed HTC bootloaders can be cracked?
Are they bulletproof? Is it just a matter of time? No idea?

Lord Panzer said:
Since I have very little technical knowledge, I want to ask the people who do: Do you think the signed HTC bootloaders can be cracked?
Are they bulletproof? Is it just a matter of time? No idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My knowledge on the topic is probably as limited as yours, but consider this: if someone figured out how to crack an iPhone, someone will undoubtedly figure out how to crack a signed bootloader.

The SE X10 bootloader was locked too and xda devs have unlocked it...though it took them a year to do it
Now knowing that hTC devices are way more popular here in xda, the unlocking process will take much less time, the incredible S are already temp rooted and it wouldn't take much time to be permanently rooted.
Now if you want to play on the safe side and love HTC then buy the DHD, it's still a stong device,rooted and plenty of roms

I like to believe my knowledge is limited as well.
From what I understand, a signed bootloader will require a leak of an internal engineering build to unlock. This was done on the HTC Thunderbolt for example.
An encrypted bootloader is tougher to unlock. This is why most of us won't buy a Motorola device.

By the way we still don't have any confirmation if it will be locked or not.
Htc said that their approach to security is "unchanged." If their approach is unchanged from devices like the Incredible S, which has an encrypted bootloader, the Sensation is unlikely to see custom firmware. If, however, their approach is unchanged from the Thunderbolt, then we are in luck: that phone has already been unlocked and rooted.

kgbkny said:
My knowledge on the topic is probably as limited as yours, but consider this: if someone figured out how to crack an iPhone, someone will undoubtedly figure out how to crack a signed bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that Apple products seem to be very crackable, sometimes even before the launch date.

Once again they are not signed they are locked meaning there is a possible way to crack them. Motorola signed theirs. HTC just locked them in a different way. Making harder for us to crack. Bootloader locked and bootloader are signed two different things.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Perhaps but when you see the poor Incredible S users who tried everything possible to root it and couldn't...

vegetaleb said:
Perhaps but when you see the poor Incredible S users who tried everything possible to root it and couldn't...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ps3 couldn't be hack someone did it its mostly about popularity. They said the same thing about the g2 and the thunder bolt it got hacked. Its not impossible.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Not if, but when?
For me personally, the issue is not if the Sensation will be rooted, but WHEN. I'm personally thinking I might not want any new Android device before its rooted. I mean, although the Sensation has a lot to offer, unrooted it's going to be a resource hog that I won't be able to manage as I'd desire. I won't even be able to use Titanium Backup and some of my other apps till its rooted.
So I'm debating with myself about holding off on getting the Sensation till after it's rooted and an "unroot" path is also developed.
The only form of Android I've ever known is ROOTED, so going to a locked down version is not a pleasing option to me.

See this is what I love about Android and Opensource in general, and XDA in particular. You can go directly to the best and brightest and get answers! Thanks, everyone!

It shouldn't be a problem stock as bad as other phones gingerbread fixes alot of problems. The real fix is from ext4 but. It shouldn't be as bad as before though I hate sense the only thing I like is the camera apps ui and the fact that it doesn't lose data speeds.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

The main thing I like in Sensation is the Sense 3.0, but the low benchmark score is a clear indication that it needs root to speed up some things like kernel OC.
Rooting a phone is not sufficiant, you need a bunch of happy devs to build roms and kernels, look at the beautiful xperia Arc for exemple, it has same power as DHD and its rooted for 2 weeks, but due to lack of devs we still don't have recovery nor roms,it's like if you bought a ferrari but can't drive it because of lack of petrol
HTC devices are the most loved ones at XDA for the time being and they get tons of roms BUT things can change if HtC wanna lock all their new devices like the Incredible S, even Paul from Modaco is not willing to buy the Sensation if it will be locked like IS, the SGS2 will win the hearts of the devs here...

vegetaleb said:
The main thing I like in Sensation is the Sense 3.0, but the low benchmark score is a clear indication that it needs root to speed up some things like kernel OC.
Rooting a phone is not sufficiant, you need a bunch of happy devs to build roms and kernels, look at the beautiful xperia Arc for exemple, it has same power as DHD and its rooted for 2 weeks, but due to lack of devs we still don't have recovery nor roms,it's like if you bought a ferrari but can't drive it because of lack of petrol
HTC devices are the most loved ones at XDA for the time being and they get tons of roms BUT things can change if HtC wanna lock all their new devices like the Incredible S, even Paul from Modaco is not willing to buy the Sensation if it will be locked like IS, the SGS2 will win the hearts of the devs here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before there was ever Android, there was Windows Mobile and locked ROMs. And this very same site, XDA Developers was the place to come to unlock and get new ROMs.
So HTC locking down Android devices is old hat, as is unlocking them .
This site's history is rooted in HTC devices and so long as HTC makes something even marginally competitive I don't see it changing. The developers here have been hacking HTC devices before Android came to town. In fact, Android is the new kid on this block . Here, a lock is simply an exciting challenge to overcome, and a source for some developer to earn our $upport .
Don't count on a lock in the Sensation causing any wave of developers here to go running to Samsung.

Can you say the same to Incredible S users?

vegetaleb said:
Can you say the same to Incredible S users?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Inc S is Verizon right? We all know in the US VZW is the largest CDMA Carrier cell co. They usually get what they want. To me VZW is like Steve Jobs bunch of corporate jerks
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I recall the old Touch Pro 2 also took a little time to crack, but it was also unlocked. Even the old Treo Pro was eventually cracked, both the GSM and CDMA versions. They all get unlocked, some take a little more time than others.
Which is why my only question is when? The Sensation being a device that will be with GSM carriers, having a good degree of pre-sale marketing and being made by HTC. It's going to have development somewhere to the level we see with the HD2. Most of us HD2 owners that frequent this site moved to Android and the Sensation is the next suitable upgrade.

epsix said:
Inc S is Verizon right? We all know in the US VZW is the largest CDMA Carrier cell co. They usually get what they want. To me VZW is like Steve Jobs bunch of corporate jerks
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incredible S is a GSM phone that is attracting attention since it has T-Mobile's AWS band support. Verizon is coming out with a dual-mode GSM/CDMA sister of the Inc S.

[Q] Opinion needed, thinking of buying Sensation

Hello guys,
I am thinking of buyin' an HTC Sensation to replace my old Desire (AMOLED), since I found a very attractive offer at a store near home, which is somehow cheaper than any of my usual online store and I can buy it with 1 year installment.The offer is unfortunately valid only for this device and not for SGSII, so not much of an option.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...
So...is there any big difference, if I upgrade to Sensation?
Edit: it is O2 branded device without contract, just the phone.

Or should I wait for EVO 3D for the bigger battery capacity?
Hmmmm.............

advice
aaa said:
Hello guys,
I am thinking of buyin' an HTC Sensation to replace my old Desire (AMOLED), since I found a very attractive offer at a store near home, which is somehow cheaper than any of my usual online store and I can buy it with 1 year installment.The offer is unfortunately valid only for this device and not for SGSII, so not much of an option.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...
So...is there any big difference, if I upgrade to Sensation?
Edit: it is O2 branded device without contract, just the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community

RADLOUNI said:
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another reason I went back to my g2x.. I need development and this hardly has any at the moment..

RADLOUNI said:
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand where you are coming from Roudlouni but the point of the matter is he is getting a sensation at a very good price close to him, it isnt valid for another handset and he has found it attractive, the sgs2 is an ugly piece of ****.
at the end of the day ITS COMING. whether htc are unlocking the bootloader or alpha rev x is as he has already posted proof of s off.
the point is. ITS coming
Its not as if he sensation will never ever be unlocked. There is already youtube proof its S-off'd by Alpha Rev, we are just waiting for him to give us the S-off
so you might as well get it before its gone if you like it
its way better than the desire WAY BETTER.
Gingerbread already supports apps2sd. so thats not an issue at the moment.
but the dev section is about to kick off as soon as we have s off. my guesses are within the next week or two alpharev will release his exploit to S-OFF.
Your main reason of upgrading was the pathetic internal memory and yes the sensation has more than the desire. and once u get a custom rom on it you will be able to do much more.
head over to the SGS2 threads, the phone was s-off on stock and its been out for a few months, how many roms are there, the dev support is minor and small, hardly worth bothering, but guaranteed if its anything like the DHD threads.
The sensation thread will be crammed to suit your flashaholic needs
believe me i own a sensation it is a good device, just patiently waiting for S-off.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...

ikhzter said:
the point is. ITS coming
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have learned that there is no guarantee that these things will come. Either root is available now or it is not available now. I do not recommend buying a device now and expecting it to be upgraded in the future.
Many times a hardware vendor has promised an update that either never came or turned out to be a piece of crap. Many times people with great intentions have tried to put a 3rd party hack together and it just didn't work out the way they hoped.
I HOPE options for the Sensation open up in the future. Some may EXPECT it. But time will tell.

Coming from a real world user of the phone..its the best phone I have used on T-mobile system. Are there issues? Yes battery life is not the best but expected from this type of phone, I have a abnormal reboot issue that happens at time. The sense 3.0 seems laggy at times and the dumb T-mobile apps that are on the phone are annoying. But when the root comes, this phone should be one hell of a phone,

May I put some conclution from your comments?
For me, unlocked bootloader is very important, as important as permanent root, installing custom ROMs, etc.
I believe I should wait till htc has unlocked the bootloader, the price will also eventually go down in time....but by then, EVO 3D will be more tempting..

Let's tell HTC we want a REAL unlock!

Please read the following blog entry and consider what this could mean for you as an HTC user!
Join with toastcfh, cyaniarb and the many other HTC devs who have brought you all the customization's you know and love. Ask HTC to provide a solution for the current situation!
Please comment and share, spread the word so HTC will hear us and not force us to find another manufacturer we could possibly stand that offers a true unlock!
http://goo.gl/3T4NK

Essentially why my next phone will be a Samsung. Samsung is way more dev friendly. HTC absolutely f***ed the development on the vivid, even though its a top notch phone. They used to be king of the hill for devs, not anymore.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.

Felimenta97 said:
Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After their multiple fiascos over the years with other products I won't trust them for a second... think "other OS" on the playstation. a feature they advertised and sold customers based on and then revoked in a later software update.

ve6rah said:
After their multiple fiascos over the years with other products I won't trust them for a second... think "other OS" on the playstation. a feature they advertised and sold customers based on and then revoked in a later software update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What fiascos? Their phones with single core while the rest was with dual core last year? Or their updates? The learned from 2010. They release ICS for ALL their devices, with a awesome software tweaks that made their devices could follow other dual core competitors. And the UI is not heavy like TouchWiz and Sense neither ugly.
For prices, they're not cheap, just like all of their devices, but they make it premium. And stop a little and take a look at the rumours for their next big phones, Hayabusa and Mint. They will blow away One X and SIII.
Sent from my X10 Mini Pro using Tapatalk

I listed one of the fiascos in the reply I made, I could add their rootkit fiasco on CDs a while back... or others.
They haven't screwed over android users yet, but their company has a long history of screwing people over on every other product they've made, I don't want to be involved when they decide to do it on a phone.

Felimenta97 said:
Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus sueing the guys who created the PS3 jailbreak (Geohot, failoverflow), going after another guy who contributed to running Other OS on updated PS3 devices (graf_chokolo).Oh and removing otheros in the first place.
Yeah, Sony sure are dev friendly.
Back on topic, i'm totally with this, S-OFF is a crappy solution.

cl8 said:
Plus sueing the guys who created the PS3 jailbreak (Geohot, failoverflow), going after another guy who contributed to running Other OS on updated PS3 devices (graf_chokolo).Oh and removing otheros in the first place.
Yeah, Sony sure are dev friendly.
Back on topic, i'm totally with this, S-OFF is a crappy solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?

Felimenta97 said:
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't know, i own a HTC phone, hence why i posted in this thread.

slapshot30 said:
Essentially why my next phone will be a Samsung. Samsung is way more dev friendly. HTC absolutely f***ed the development on the vivid, even though its a top notch phone. They used to be king of the hill for devs, not anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Only with Evo 3D. I'm done with HTC.

Back to topic, yes the whole idea of s-off seems like a common place term, however, this is only because the manufacturer is creating road blocks and locks that keep us from doing what we want. Security and locks make sense, but for the user who understands the risks but simply wants to create custom distributions or simply upgrade firmware on their own schedule there should be a solution with understanding.

Felimenta97 said:
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is still false. Sony killed off their own dev community. I don't recall exactly what device(s) it was, but I remember a HUGE fiasco involving them which resulted in tons and tons of devs deserting Sony.
imheroldman said:
Back to topic, yes the whole idea of s-off seems like a common place term, however, this is only because the manufacturer is creating road blocks and locks that keep us from doing what we want. Security and locks make sense, but for the user who understands the risks but simply wants to create custom distributions or simply upgrade firmware on their own schedule there should be a solution with understanding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, security and locks like that do NOT make sense. Samsung SHIPS with unlocked bootloaders, and they don't seem to be having too many problems with it because they keep doing it. HTC makes you jump through hoops just to flash a recovery or kernel every time you want a new ROM.

slapshot30 said:
No, security and locks like that do NOT make sense. Samsung SHIPS with unlocked bootloaders, and they don't seem to be having too many problems with it because they keep doing it. HTC makes you jump through hoops just to flash a recovery or kernel every time you want a new ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not exactly familiar with other samsung devices but I know that the Galaxy Nexus you have to physically connect the phone in fastboot and enter an unlock command...

You think HTC phones are harder to unlock? Motorola's phones are the hardest sobs to be unlocked. If you go back a few years, you'll see that almost every motorola phone required a hardware box or a very specific and hard to find software to be unlocked.
Sent from my GT-S5360B using XDA

i have a s2 and everything is so easy to do. i still dont know what s-off is

acizcool said:
i have a s2 and everything is so easy to do. i still dont know what s-off is
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-off is security off. Samsung doesn't have any security on their device. This is why samsung phones are so easy to unlock.
HTC unlock is really horrible way of doing things. Because of the boot img which is basically the kernel is blocked as well. If you ever looked in the kernel and at source a lot of stuff that is actually useful to the power user is turned off in the stock kernel. Especially latest Linux kernel patches.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

s-off on a HTC device is very difficult? have not s-off my sensation XE yet. how difficult is it comparing to samsung device?