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They always seem to have the best lineup (Nexus One, Nexus S, G2, MyTouch 4G, etc) but the absolute worst coverage and expensive plans! I know they're huge in Europe, but why are they so loaded in the US? Is there something I'm missing here? Sprint, who easily has the best prices and very good service, only has two "top-tier" phones in the EVO and Epic with nothing new on the horizon. Someone, please enlighten me!
expensive plans really? They are the cheapest compare to the other three.
samven582 said:
expensive plans really? They are the cheapest compare to the other three.
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Thank You. My wife and I had reps from Sprint, Verizon and, AT&T tell us that they cant touch Tmobiles prices. I know people with Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T and they all talk about how high their bills are and how they get charged for everything.
samven582 said:
expensive plans really? They are the cheapest compare to the other three.
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Sprint's "Everything Data - with Any Mobile, Anytime" gives you unlimited mobile-to-mobile (any carrier), unlimited nights and weekends, 450 "anytime" minutes, and unlimited everything else. Given the fact that pretty much everyone has a cell phone now this is essentially unlimited talk time. Price: $69/month + $10/month luxury tax = $79/month.
T-Mobiles's "Even More™ 500 Talk + Unlimited Text + Unlimited Web" is essentially the same as Sprint's aforementioned plan, but you can only call other T-Mobile customers with unlimited minutes, which is the smallest percentage of cell phone owners. Price: $79/month.
As you can see, you get the same price, but with Sprint you have a MAJOR advantage in the unlimited mobile-to-mobile calling. A similar plan on T-Mobile is $99/month (same as Sprint's "Simply Everything," though unless you make it a habit to call landlines in the middle of the day the "Everything Data" is already fairly unlimited). This was my major problem with T-Mobile's pricing, so unless there's a secret plan that I don't know about Sprint is still cheaper.
there is....T-Mo has holiday plans 79.99 for 1500 mins...
basically the same plan you mentioned with a free 1k mins...
family plan avail aswell $150 for 3k...
i work at radioshack, we sell sprint, t-mo, and att
there is a BIG gotcha in those any mobile any time plans BTW.....
sprint has a huge list of rules for calls that qualify for anymobile any time...
such as you cannot be roaming, you must have data service not just voice service for said call to qualify (as in if you are not currently recieving a data signal your calls go against your minutes)
any call...
oh yeah and sprint's CDMA, thats the biggest reason they will never get my business, keep your grubby little hands outta my phone damnit!
ESKIMOn00b said:
there is....T-Mo has holiday plans 79.99 for 1500 mins...
basically the same plan you mentioned with a free 1k mins...
family plan avail aswell $150 for 3k...
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Is that "holiday plan" eligible for further discounts (i.e. student) though? I'm assuming that you can only get it in-store since it isn't on the website.
dunno... i can get em over the phone but i am an inderect dealer... so try and find out, if not go hit up yout local RadioShack and ask for it
dunno about discounts...
you should also read my edit above
ESKIMOn00b said:
dunno... i can get em over the phone but i am an inderect dealer... so try and find out, if not go hit up yout local RadioShack and ask for it
dunno about discounts...
you should also read my edit above
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I saw that, but I've never used more than like 15 "anytime" minutes a month, and those were when I was calling my house. I can't really think of any times that I'm roaming, so that's a non-issue.
my MAJOR gripe is i cannot change phones at will, i have a MT4G G2 N1 G1 MT3G MT3G 1.2....
i like to bounce between the G2 MT4G and N1...
I would think that tmo (and other non-CDMA) carriers get the phones because they are GSM, which is closer to, if not the very same standard for those areas outside of North America.
Best regards,
-boggsie
ESKIMOn00b said:
my MAJOR gripe is i cannot change phones at will, i have a MT4G G2 N1 G1 MT3G MT3G 1.2....
i like to bounce between the G2 MT4G and N1...
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Why is it that you can't change phones at will?
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic.
With CDMA you are stuck with your carrier's discretion when you want to switch phones(IE, you have to call them up go through an annoying process when you want to switch). With GSM it is your discretion, since its swaping over the SIM to the other phone you want to use.
First off, GSM ftw. CDMA need to just, die. WTF did they decide to invent it anyways. Dumb assest move.
Either way. T-Mobile is THE BEST. AT EVERYTHING. *if* you get good coverage where you live.
My plan with T-Mobile is 59.99 for 500 minutes (which I only use 200~ of), unlimited texting, and unlimited data (at 7.2mbps on my vibrant!), free WiFi tethering, and WiFi calling. Even More Plus ftw. No contract. Eff contracts. Did I mention the reps are nicer than any reps of *any* company? And actually speak English?
Also AT&T are overpriced pricks, Verizon same, but also CDMA, Cricket, too small, Sprint, their 4g is slower than T-Mobile's 3g, and they're CDMA...
The only issue with T-Mobile is the AWS bands being incompatible with euro 3g / at&t 3g. These phones need to come with radios to support both in all honesty :/. If I move to somewhere T-Mobile sucks, I'll cry a river. Can't go AT&T... Freaking thieves. We need more GSM providers.
~~Tito~~ said:
With CDMA you are stuck with your carrier's discretion when you want to switch phones(IE, you have to call them up go through an annoying process when you want to switch). With GSM it is your discretion, since its swaping over the SIM to the other phone you want to use.
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Oh, I thought you were griping about T-Mobile, so that's why I thought it made no sense.
Anderdroid said:
First off, GSM ftw. CDMA need to just, die. WTF did they decide to invent it anyways. Dumb assest move.
Either way. T-Mobile is THE BEST. AT EVERYTHING. *if* you get good coverage where you live.
My plan with T-Mobile is 59.99 for 500 minutes (which I only use 200~ of), unlimited texting, and unlimited data (at 7.2mbps on my vibrant!), free WiFi tethering, and WiFi calling. Even More Plus ftw. No contract. Eff contracts. Did I mention the reps are nicer than any reps of *any* company? And actually speak English?
Also AT&T are overpriced pricks, Verizon same, but also CDMA, Cricket, too small, Sprint, their 4g is slower than T-Mobile's 3g, and they're CDMA...
The only issue with T-Mobile is the AWS bands being incompatible with euro 3g / at&t 3g. These phones need to come with radios to support both in all honesty :/. If I move to somewhere T-Mobile sucks, I'll cry a river. Can't go AT&T... Freaking thieves. We need more GSM providers.
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What plan is that? Were you grandfathered in from a previous agreement, or is that an actual plan that I could sign up for?
That 500 min plan is a plan you can sign up for right now. You have to get it in store though.
~~Tito~~ said:
That 500 min plan is a plan you can sign up for right now. You have to get it in store though.
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?! No I got it online. Pay full price for the phone then get the discounted even more plus plan with no contract. And no. I switched over from Verizon. Well. Had Cricket for a year (was under 18 lmao) then tried Verizon out, which wasn't much better than Cricket, so I got T-Mobile. And even more plus. And I've been flying on the real, true nation's fastest mobile data network since. Except that I tried AT&T for 20 days and ended up losing 400$ out of that as well as 80% of my calls being dropped. Terrible month.
Anderdroid said:
?! No I got it online. Pay full price for the phone then get the discounted even more plus plan with no contract. And no. I switched over from Verizon. Well. Had Cricket for a year (was under 18 lmao) then tried Verizon out, which wasn't much better than Cricket, so I got T-Mobile. And even more plus. And I've been flying on the real, true nation's fastest mobile data network since. Except that I tried AT&T for 20 days and ended up losing 400$ out of that as well as 80% of my calls being dropped. Terrible month.
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Why is the plan with no contract cheaper than one with a contract? It seems like it would go the other way.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic.
on the contract plan they are subsidizing the phone....
no contract = outright purchase of handset.
Tmo is way cheaper than I can get anywhere else, my wife and I have 5 lines on our plan with 3000 minutes, unlimited texting on all lines, and unlimited data on hers and mine. For about 200 a month.
My parents have two iphones on ATT with data and unlimited text and I think only around 500 minutes for like 120.
ESKIMOn00b said:
on the contract plan they are subsidizing the phone....
no contract = outright purchase of handset.
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Ah, that makes sense.
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Sent from my HTC Supersonic.
As some guys pointed out that web2go and t-zone are still working on G2x. I am having a 5.99 t-zone data plan as well and I am out of contract already.
I am hesitating if I should
1) buy a G2x from costco with full price and keep my t-zone;
or
2) sign a new contract to take advantage of the discounted unit price.
If I go with option #1, I will probably end up paying $500+ at front. But the benefit is I gotta keep my lower rate data plan (although I understand T-mobile may or may not force upgrading the data plan to $30/mo)
If I opt for option #2, the until will only costs about $180 after tax. But the lowest 4g unlimited data plan will cost about $20 each month.
I highly doubt if I could keep the t-zone plan and buy a G2x from costco store with contract price...
A simple math may suggest option #2 money wise ( (530-180)/(20-6)=25mon > 2yrs). But I would like to hear others' opinion.
some considerations:
1) If the t-zone can only give a 2.5g internet and performs much slower than the current HSPA+ you can get from the 4g data plan, that could be a deal breaker.
2) Once t-zone is cancelled, probably we will never get it back (well, who know how long t-mobile will stand before merged by ATT?)
3) anything else worth to think about??
I was in your shoes as well... I needed a new sim card when I got my phone to be compatible with the 4G network...
I opted to get the cheaper phone price because there is no way that ATT will let us keep our tzones... if and when the merger happens, ATT will honor CONTRACTS that are currently in place and they will not accommodate our old grandfathered plans... remember how ATT phased out their unlimited data plans?
That's just me putting two and two together...
I am mainly curious what's the speed you can get from t-zone on your G2x. Could it be 3g?
tangyoulei said:
I am mainly curious what's the speed you can get from t-zone on your G2x. Could it be 3g?
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speed wise, there is no difference from the $30 data plan
You won't get to keep the T-Zones plan. You'll soon start getting the "upgrade" message when connecting to the web.
However, if you buy the phone outright, the data plan is $25/month and not $30.
I bought the G2X on Tuesday, and starting getting the upgrade message today. So, I went to the tmo store and got my wife a G2X. And I upgraded us to the family 750/unlimited text&web for $110/month. Not a bad deal.
The speed was about the same as 4G web on the main line but the latency was horrible.
Now you can forget it because the phone is flagged.
I currently have Tmobiles $60 monthly 4G prepaid plan. I have been using an HTC G2 I bought off of craigslist. I just sold a Galaxy S and my G2 on ebay and have enough money to get an HTC Sensation 4G.
Will it be better to open a contract with Tmobile and get the phone for $100, or buy the phone off of ebay or the BST here for around $300. I do not know if there are any hidden fees or anything, and don't want to stray to far from $60 a month. What would you guys do? Im leaning towards buying the Sensation 4G off of ebay.
Extra: What phones are like the Sensation 4G and work with Tmobile 4G?
Screw the contracts. I'm on Simple and pay on $40 a month.
Pay cash for all of my phones.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Stay
Stay where you're at if you're happy with it - I pay about $180/month on contract with Verizon for just 2 phones....
I would stay on prepaid. My spouse was with US Cellular and the plan was supposed to be $79.99 a month for unlimited everything. It always came out to be about $140 with all the extra charges. Fees for this, fees for that. We're both on Simple Mobile now and pay $40 each... can't beat that!
if your on Prepaid Stay with it, one of the best things about T-mobile was the use of any phone on prepaid. Still kicking myself over going to a contract
Saito2185 said:
Still kicking myself over going to a contract
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Haha! Same...
pputhoo quoted
I vote for prepaid! No more unwanted bills, just pay and play each month
Especially if you get free extra bonus for extending your account balance with prepaid
Contract ends up cheaper in the long run.
I pay 29EUR a month. For me cheaper as prepaid... With prepaid i was at 60EUR or more a month... And i got a HTC Sensation XE but SGS 2 is better
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I vote prepaid. I was on their monthly plan and it felt good being able to go to Verizon without paying them anything.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium HD app
Depends on where you use it for. Contracts in my country are obvious cheaper when you call alot, but if you only use mobile internet like me and almost never use up my montly call & sms limit then you might as well stay with prepaid, unless you can score a new phone without having pay high contract costs.
WiFi and voip are the combo I use, I just pay € 10 exclusive tax and then I call for 120 days free with a fup ofcourse and after those 120 days I just start using my credit and pay € 0,02 per min.
But my contract was with a free new phone on that moment worth about € 500 so that;s reason I have a contract with mobile internet, because it just cost me about € 4 each month, so I don't mind that I don't call so much.
But next time I will just stick with WiFi and use no sim card or prepaid as I think in my country the contracts are not cheap any more.
Yeah
I definitely think you should stay with what you have if your happy with it. I'm paying about $155/month on Sprint for 2 phones.
Verizon does offer prepaid for smartphones too, you just need to bring your own device. But, it's gonna run you $80.
Now, you can stay on Tmobile prepaid and use any GSM phone that's locked to Tmobile, or unlocked for any GSM provider(Granted that the phone has the right bands to support Tmobiles HSPA+ connection for full data speeds), but like any prepaid service you're gonna get the bottom of the barrel service. You do pay more with contracts 9/10, but you get so much better service and support. Sprint is going to be the cheapest and most flexible contract service at about $75-$85 after taxes with the starting 450 data plan(unlimited mobile talk, text, and data, 450 land line minutes nights and weekends start at 7), and phone selection isn't too bad either. Now you will be limited on 4g, since Sprint's Wimax service is next to nothing. If you don't have credit, you're looking at $50-$100 for a deposit.
AT&T is known to be the more expensive one out of the 3 carriers, but AT&T is actually just as much as Verizon would be. If you have no credit, you're looking at maybe $200-$400 for a deposit. For $90 a month, you get 450 land line minutes plus any minutes you don't use roll over to the next month, 5000 night and weekend minutes with rollover, unlimited texting, and 3gb of data. For service, it's hit or miss. AT&T will claim they have service in one area, but how AT&T does it is if they can even pull a single bar of service and connect to their towers, it counts as having service. Their LTE network isn't so big right now, but it's growing. Device selection is actually pretty decent right now, about the same as Sprint with the SII, the GS, a dual core Motorola device, a single core HTC phone, a dual core HTC phone, and the Iphones.
Verizon hands down has had the best service, and if you don't have credit maybe $125-$200 for a deposit. Verizon does have the biggest LTE network, and has a deal right now where you can get 4gb for the price of 2gb until the 31st of March on any LTE phone(but it has to be an LTE phone). Their plans are kind of limited though, $90 for 450 minutes, unlimited texts, and assuming you're going for an LTE phone 4gb of data. You only get unlimited to verizon phones, and nights and weekends start off at 9pm instead of 7 like Sprint. You can go up to 900 minutes for $20 more and get 10 numbers to get free minutes to however. Device selection is pretty decent for Verizon, but expensive. The cheapest LTE device Verizon pretty much has that's worth anything is the Stratosphere, but there's hardly any development for it. I love the service I get with Verizon, they're the only company in the Toledo area that has any type of 4g service, but the only reason I have Verizon now is because of the dealer plan Verizon offers to Radioshack employees.
If you're looking for your first contract phone, I wouldn't recommend Tmobile right now, but after they get the spectrum they got from AT&T setup then I would probably consider them, but easily for first contract go Sprint. Flexible, requires almost nothing to be approved, and decent service for Sprint. EVO 3d right now through Radioshack is $50 as well as the Photon, which would be the 2 most cost effective phones on Sprint right now.
vbetts said:
You do pay more with contracts 9/10, but you get so much better service and support.
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If by "service" you mean connection, are there any stats for this? I'm about to switch to their $30 prepaid, and would love to know if there's a catch.
i pay about $100.00 a month with AT&T and i don't have unlimited data. i'm about thinking about switching to prepaid as well when my contract ends.
thebobp said:
If by "service" you mean connection, are there any stats for this? I'm about to switch to their $30 prepaid, and would love to know if there's a catch.
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Most prepaid services are only going to have access to certain towers, meaning you couldn't use a Boost mobile phone that uses Sprint towers and roam off of Verizon or Clearwire, or any CDMA towers.
vbetts said:
Most prepaid services are only going to have access to certain towers, meaning you couldn't use a Boost mobile phone that uses Sprint towers and roam off of Verizon or Clearwire, or any CDMA towers.
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Is this a limitation for GSM-only phones (like mine)?
Edit: or is there any other limitation that you know of?
^ no he's referring to CDMA. Death to contracts.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Yeah... I regret going into a contract.. Paying around $100 a month just for 1 line and its not even unlimited data.
Luckily its up in July and I can hopefully go prepaid
So I call AT&T before ordering on amazon, and the rep tells me that I'll be able to call back and switch my data plan to the "5GB Unlimited." I inquire as to how the plan works, she says that if I go over 5GB, I get charged, because it is not unlimited. But then she confirmed that I'll be keeping the grandfathered data plan.
Is this consistent with what other people are getting? Just want to make sure I'm not screwing myself over. Thanks!
It is not called 5GB unlimited. It is LTE unlimited and you will never be charged for overage. What happens is you will be throttled (300k to 500k speed) when you use over 5GB.
You will have to call AT&T to switch back to your unlimited plan after you received your phone from Amazon.
You will probably want to follow up with AT&T after you get your phone to make sure you are actually keeping your grandfathered unlimited plan and that you have not actually been switched over to the 5GB plan.
I had to convince the at&t rep when ordering over the phone that I should have unlimited grandfathered plan.
It is always worth checking to make sure they didn't take it away from you.
While on the phone and on web chat, I asked this specifically with radioshack rep several times that i want to keep my grandfathered unlimited data and they say yes it will be possible. I told them why on my receipt it shows mt dataplan got switched to the 5gb+tether for $50, they said this is only for initial processing, but after approval, everything will go back to the way it was. I made sure to get them to confirm this before I purchased and after i purchased haha.
We will see if this is still the case when I finally get my phone. If not, sucks I might have to cancel and return the phone. unlimited data is pretty valuable especially when you get to go all the way up to 5GB before being throttled in LTE.
When I placed my pre-order through AT&T, I specifically had the option to add the "LTE Unlimited Personal" data package. I was pretty tempted by RadioShack offering it at $50. But given all I read about them farqing things up for pretty much everybody they sell things to, I paid the whole $200 through AT&T. I am willing to pay extra to make sure nobody screws up my unlimited data plan. But that's just me.
I kept my smartphone unlimited plan. AT&T had no problem letting me keep my plan
Keeping my unlimited data plan is the sole reason I always upgrade through ATT. Sure the Radio Shack and Amazon prices are always lower but I never fully trust that ATT will put unlimited data back after I get the phone...
snvyas said:
Keeping my unlimited data plan is the sole reason I always upgrade through ATT. Sure the Radio Shack and Amazon prices are always lower but I never fully trust that ATT will put unlimited data back after I get the phone...
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Agreed. Spending more in the store is worth it to me rather than running the chance of losing the unlimited data plan.
SR4 said:
Agreed. Spending more in the store is worth it to me rather than running the chance of losing the unlimited data plan.
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Even if somehow they screw your data plan up. You can always get your unlimited data plan back. As long as you can:
-Prove that you've had it
-Say that it was changed without your knowledge / consent.
I cannot add them back in the store. You will have to call 611 to get it added back to your account if it was messed up by some other retailer. It's always worth checking your account online to make sure. Or dial *3282#. That will tell you what data plan you currently have.
The type of data connection doesn't matter either. If you are just now moving to your first LTE device, the amount of data you are allowed to transfer before the throttle increases to 5gb from 3gb. The cost is the same and it is still unlimited. Meaning no overage costs.
If you have any specific questions or if customer service gives you any trouble. Please message me and I can help resolve it.
My contract just ended and I have the $30 unlimited data grandfathered. I've always been able to keep it when upgrading by speaking to customer service. But this time I don't want to upgrade for another 2yr contract. I've been a customer forever and would like to have the freedom of no contract for a little bit. I'm currently using a 3g samsung captivate but want to get the s3. I found a really good deal on craigslist. Will at&t let me keep unlimited data without upgrading? I'm just worried that they tell me yes when I call, then after I buy the phone they say no you gotta upgrade. That would suck..
Just swap the sim card into the new phone.
Sent from my One X using xda premium
hugebulge said:
Just swap the sim card into the new phone.
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I believe the GS3 is a MicroSIM, and the Captivate is a "regular" SIM. So the person can get a MicroSIM from AT&T. If you call for one, I think they charge you $15. But in store, they will often give it to you for free to AT&T account holders.
You can also cut the SIM to make it work, using guides online. But its probably easier to just get a free new one from the store.
jsmizzle said:
My contract just ended and I have the $30 unlimited data grandfathered. I've always been able to keep it when upgrading by speaking to customer service. But this time I don't want to upgrade for another 2yr contract. I've been a customer forever and would like to have the freedom of no contract for a little bit. I'm currently using a 3g samsung captivate but want to get the s3. I found a really good deal on craigslist. Will at&t let me keep unlimited data without upgrading? I'm just worried that they tell me yes when I call, then after I buy the phone they say no you gotta upgrade. That would suck..
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Dont' worry, they can't make you upgrade, you can use whatever hardware you want (as long as its compatible with their network).
If you don't presently have LTE on your account, and the phone you are buying is compatible with AT&T's LTE bands, you can get it added to your account w/o an upgrade and w/o a new contract. But you have to go through AT&T to do it (either by phone or in an AT&T store). Simply tell them you want to keep unlimited data, and add LTE. They technically have to change you to a "new" data plan that is unlimited data with LTE, but its really just the same - unlimited data, but with LTE capability added and no extra fee (its just what they do to make it work in their system). Just make sure they do it right before you leave the store or hangup the phone. Its not completely straightforward, it took them about 15 minutes to get it right for me at my AT&T store, and the rep had to bring the manager into it, and they were really trying. But its worth the hassle, since if they screw it up and take unlimited data off your account, its a real pain to add it back.
And this is the only way to add LTE to your account, if the S3 you are buying has LTE.
Thanks guys for the replies. Apparently, the LTE microSIM is different from the 3g microSIM. Even though they're the same size the coding is different. So i'm gonna need to visit the store to get the LTE card. AT&T customer service did tell me that my unlimited data won't change and I won't need to upgrade. So that's cool.. Now it's about choosing which phone to get. I'm still thinking the S3 but I just looked at the demo models at best buy. Damn this is hard. The one x is a beauty and even the atrix hd looks great too. I might just wait until the iphone 5 release on the 12th so all the other phone prices will drop. But that's a whole different thread..
Hi,
I am exploring my options with Sprint to end my contract because their data service in my area and in most of the places that I travel just sucks. I am trying to figure out whether it's reasonable for them to ask for the phones if they waive the ETF.
Assuming that their data service isn't what they advertised (3G between 600K and 1.3M), I feel like I shouldn't have to return the phones even if they waive the ETF because I paid $300 (iPhone) and $199 (Galaxy S2) when I upgraded, and it is really their service that's lacking. Whichever service provider I go to next I will incur the same cost once again, which wouldn't have been the case if their service was up to par. If I keep the phones then I can sell them on craigslist/ebay and recover most of what I would have to pay to the next provider.
So, if they waive the ETF, what's reasonable for me to ask/expect as far as the phones are concerned?
I asked the same question on the Epic 4G Touch forum. Take a look if you are interested
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1812650
600k - 1.3mb on 3g is average to good, full blown 3g maxed out is 3.1mb tops, Verizon won't be any better than 2mb. And with speeds in that range sprints not gonna let you out etf free regardless if you give them the phones or not cuz you really don't have an issue other than fast isn't fast enough for you. You gotta remember its a cell phone not computer with broadband internet. If you really want out flash a Verizon PrL and stream a lot of video and eat up all the data u can, they will kick your ass to the curb etf free and you can keep your phones,.just make sure you force roaming and stay roaming on the vzw PrL, then you can wait for the letter saying GTFO or you can call after a month and tell them you're always roaming and they will prob release your contract
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device
My goal with the last post was not to move the flame war from the other thread to this one It was just so everyone knew where/how this thread ended.
FYI, I have been patiently and reasonably working with Sprint to troubleshoot my issue and they have finally decided to waive the ETF and let me go. I do like their customer service, but, unfortunately, their speeds aren't up to par (generally <200k), especially when considering that Verizon has 4G in my area.
Vzw customer service sucks ass, and the prices might as well come with a gun to the head. So be prepared for that, your single line plan is gonna be around 150 + tax if you want 10gb of data and that's the biggest data block you can buy. Its $100 for 10gb data and unlimited SMS and voice plus a $40 per line access charge
We are legion, for we are many.
Sent from the DarkSide of the GalaXy with a MEK device
Most carriers will force an etf if they don't get the equipment back.