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Anyone used this case? I REALLY don't want to put a case on my Nexus One, but it's also so slim and thin that I am going to drop it eventually.
Silly as it is, I don't want the whole phone covered up, so while the Innocase Surface II looks decent it also covers up the phone.. The Boxwave Pure Crystal Slip doesn't, but I can't find any reviews on it.
Anyone used one of these things? I don't use the dock, although I do use a horizontal belt case so I might have to get one that's slightly bigger as the N1 barely fits in the existing one, but I can deal with that.. That would happen for any case honestly, except for a skin.. I do like Best Skin Ever, but the last two I've bought seem to not be quite as "tacky" as the first few I had, therefore the grip wasn't quite as good. Maybe my imagination..
I bought the Boxwave case off amazon a month ago probably. its a nice case but save your money and buy a resin case from dcmugen on ebay, exact same thing with a different logo. its a nice case though, not too thick and easy to take on and off (I use both docks) so it fits my needs quite well.
Boxwave here. Nice thin and classy. Has rubber feel but not too soft either. It's a pretty good case makes phone look ten times better in my opinion. Is easily recommend it, but I don't use docks, so can't help there. Never the less, happy casing.
DC Mugen FTW. eBay - Epik Case. I got two cases for $8 including shipping and two screen protectors.
check out the cyclone crystal clip from boxwave - it looks even better (sry cant post link)
stiCk.E said:
check out the cyclone crystal clip from boxwave - it looks even better (sry cant post link)
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Ah, I see.. I still think I prefer the Pure, no patterns on it, but otherwise the same.. Looks like Boxwave has the Cyclone (circle patterns), diamonds, a matte finish, some others..
Still haven't decided on which case.... I've always been disappointed in silicone cases, but I've almost always bought cheap $2 eBay ones..
I went with the Boxwave Pure Crystal Slip, we'll see when it arrives! God knows when, I had two shipping options.. 5-10 days ($2) or 1-3 days ($23!!)
So I'll see in 5-10 days
I got the Clear Pure Crystal Slip yesterday. Here's a quick review:
Overall, I like it and will likely use it when I'm out and about. It gives a much more secure grip on the phone without adding any weight or feeling larger. Although honestly I still think the Nexus One is a little TOO thin and a little slippery. This makes that better.
It feels like a cheap case, it's rubbery and smooth. If your hands are wet or oily it might be MORE slippery, don't know yet. In reality it seems pretty well made, and fits well. The Clear Pure version is crystal clear, no tint, no patterns, and you can clearly see the phone is a Nexus One.
I'm not doing any drop testing, but I think if the phone landed on a corner or an end this case could protect it. It's firm but pliable, not squishy like a silicone case and not a hard case. Primarily I think it'll protect it because it'll be LESS LIKELY to get dropped because the surface is a tackier and more surface area on the sides. I can pick up the phone with two fingers securely now, where before I'd have to tilt the phone up and get fingers under it to pick it up.
If anyone wants pictures I can do that, haven't yet...
Price summary: If it were $15 it'd be a deal. $20 seems too much.
Pros:
You can see see it's a Nexus. Google branding, colors, body build
It's thin, firm, and fits tightly
Covers up the power and volume buttons, but made to fit over them. Maybe a little rain resistance?
Adds better grip, more confidence holding the phone
Does not interfere with any ports (except a little on the power plug, see below)
Does not interfere with any openings (speaker, mics, camera, camera flash)
Does not interfere with the screen, particularly near the edges
Does not obscure the speaker when phone is on its back
Lets you lay the phone down face-down without resting on the trackball
Covers all corners, edges, entire back.
Cons:
It has a molding line all around it.. It's not that visible but you can feel it. Sides aren't smooth
Covers up the power and volume buttons, but made to fit over them. Makes it too easy to hit the buttons, and you can't feel the button very well (to feel it when touching) nor feel the action of the button itself.
Seems to make the stock charger plug (maybe others too) not feel "in", I think there's too much material around the plug
Takes away the nice texture and feel of the Nexus One
Thumb hits the case a little scrolling down on the trackball, but it doesn't make it harder to use
Other notes:
Does not protect the camera lens or the screen at all
Mine was clearly used, fingerprints all over and in the box backwards :/
A slim belt case intended for the N1 is too small to fit with this case
There is a weird cutout to the left of the HTC logo in the case, like maybe a hand strap could go there?
akifbayram said:
That case does look nice but 20 dollars seems a bit excessive. Look at other Amazon items. I found one for 5 dollars shipped that is pretty similar and doesn't have the hole in the back. http://www.amazon.com/Google-Crysta...X1DSC0SAJ94E&s=generic&qid=1275242975&sr=1-27
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I have that case as well as the Crystal Boxwave slip.
The Boxwave one:
- Is clearer obviously (not the "smoked look").
- Fits a good deal tighter.
- Has a full cover for the lip, not the chin strap method of attaching.
- Has Boxwave written across the back.
I actually prefer the patterned one because it's more interesting, both detract from the Nexus, so it might as well add some flavor, right? The Boxwave one is far tighter fitting (and slightly thinner) but neither is going to come off in any kind of normal use. I also own the desktop dock, so I need to take it off on occasion to allow the phone to fit. Both cover all the buttons, so you have to get used to pressing them through the rubber. They also both have that edge around the edge of the case from being molded.
Anywho, just my $0.02
akifbayram said:
Speaking of 2 cents...there are a lot of auctions for the patterned Nexus One cases for 99 cents. http://stores.ebay.com/Cimo-Cases_G...15QQ_sidZ192097565QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322 I wish I knew about this before
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And those are probably worth at least $1.10...... Sometimes you really have to make a minimal investment to get something useful.
I am absolutely loving my Fascinate (rooted, lag fixed, and de-Binged of course). Awesome upgrade from my Droid Eris! However, I have one major gripe with it so far, and that's the battery cover, or back plate, whatever you wanna call it. I am definitely not a fan of the glossy finish on it. If my fingers are the least bit wet or greasy, it makes it very hard to hold onto. The battery cover on my Eris had some kind of slightly rubberized matte finish, and I never, ever had trouble holding onto that phone.
So, I'm looking for a solution. Ideally, it would be in the form of a direct replacement for the OEM battery cover that is made of the grippy material like the Eris had, but I might settle for some kind of stick-on skin, if there's a good one that will eliminate the slipperiness. I've searched a bit, but haven't found any good solutions yet. Anyone suggestions would be appreciated. Oh, but please don't suggest cases of any kind. I have a good leather belt holster already that the phone fits in perfectly, and adding a wraparound case of any kind would be redundant, and also would prevent the phone from fitting in my current case.
Actually, I think I found a solution, thanks to a thread on the Android Central forums. Stealth Guards is apparently giving away all their screen protectors away for free for a limited time. You pay only the cost of shipping, which for me was $2.85, and the protector was originally $14.99. It's actually a full body protection skin, not just a basic screen protector. I'll probably just use the part for the back, and not mess with the front screen protector part at all. Here's the link:
http://www.stealthguards.com/index.php/cellphones/samsung-fascinate-full-body-protection.html
Note that they have free protector kits for most all the popular phones available right now, and if you like their Facebook page, you could win prizes (such as iTunes or Best Buy gift cards) on the way to 1000 likes, and after they top 1000, they'll hold a drawing to give away a new 6th-gen iPod Nano.
ivorycruncher said:
Actually, I think I found a solution, thanks to a thread on the Android Central forums. Stealth Guards is apparently giving away all their screen protectors away for free for a limited time. You pay only the cost of shipping, which for me was $2.85, and the protector was originally $14.99. It's actually a full body protection skin, not just a basic screen protector. I'll probably just use the part for the back, and not mess with the front screen protector part at all. Here's the link:
http://www.stealthguards.com/index.php/cellphones/samsung-fascinate-full-body-protection.html
Note that they have free protector kits for most all the popular phones available right now, and if you like their Facebook page, you could win prizes (such as iTunes or Best Buy gift cards) on the way to 1000 likes, and after they top 1000, they'll hold a drawing to give away a new 6th-gen iPod Nano.
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THANKS!!! Just ordered one for me and one for my girlfriend... I didn't want to add a case, but this will keep our phones looking fancy!
hey this looks really cool. can you let us know how this works out after you get it? i was just at the bar the other day (you know how when ur holdin a cold beer and ur hands get wet) i was like god this phone is slippery
I got full body invisible shield.
I removed the SP and got realook because i didn't like the rubber feel on the screen.
But i left the back piece on it makes the back feel allot better and gives it a kind of rubbery feel and reduces finger prints and also helps protect from scratches
It and makes the over all phone feel solid.
Thanks for the link. Picked up 2 of these for my phone.
Thanks for the link too, got one for me and two coworkers. Hell of a deal even if it's mostly crap. I just want it forthe back cover too. Way too slippery.
I'd like it if Seidio's innocase for this phone just protected the back/sides and left the front alone. I like the soft touch on those...
Even my HTC TP2 had a soft tough battery door stock.
Oh dang, I forgot to reply back to this. I got my Stealth Guard as expected (just an envelope in the mail, almost thought it was junk mail at first). Sadly, there NO instructions (except for a YouTube video on their website, which was a joke), but after digging up some info online, I washed and dried the battery cover, sprayed it with some slightly soapy water, and applied the skin. I rubbed out most of the bubbles fairly easily, and as others have said, after 2-3 days, all remaining bubbles and odd-looking film went away, and if not for the ridge at the edge of the skin, you wouldn't know it was on there. Oh, I did have a bit of trouble getting the corners to stick down to the curved corners of the battery cover, but I kept working on them, and they did eventually stick as the water started to dry up a little. So far there's no evidence of peeling or anything.
I do have to admit that it's not as grippy as I expected, but it is some better than the bare surface, and should prevent the back from getting scratched up, which I was starting to see evidence of, even with careful treatment of the device. I'm undecided if I'll ever apply the front piece or not at this point, but seeing how clearly the back piece applied, I wouldn't expect it to affect visibility at all.
I ordered another one of these for my brother-in-law's Droid Incredible, and would recommend them to anyone else as well, unless you want to try a different brand, in the hopes of getting an even grippier surface for the back side. But I think that for a mere $2.85, you really can't find a better deal anywhere.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Well, I ordered the Verizon / OEM, "kickstand" hard case in hopes of a good solution for the slippery back. Looks like this case only covers the back and sides of the phone and leaves the front untouched which is what I wanted as far as a case, and it looks quite thin too. Plus, it has a kickstand built in which I really wanted since my TP2 had a sliding/tilting screen. The back of this case is grooved with like a patchwork pattern so I'm sure it's a lot grippier.
Verizon wants $20 for them, but I got it for $10 including shipping on eBay! I'll post back how it is when I get it, but I think it's the best solution i've seen.
Have the kickstand case & it's pretty good. It also has 4 raised "feet" at the corners on the back which give it some speaker clearence when flat & act as friction points for your hand or loose pocket. The kickstand is a good alternative for a desk cradle & makes utilizing the alarm clock easier.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Bulky cases like that don't work for me. I use a belt holster case that I picked up from Best Buy, and any other protector case would make it bulky to put into the holster. That's why this stick-on protector was attractive to me, as it adds no unnecessary bulk. But that's just my preference. If you prefer a hard case, you'll get no argument from me.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I just ordered 3 brand new covers directly from VZ...They are only $3 bux each...Ill just replace them when needed.
suzook said:
I just ordered 3 brand new covers directly from VZ...They are only $3 bux each...Ill just replace them when needed.
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I'd do that if they made some with a matte finish.. Where did you order them from? Just curious..
tcub said:
I'd do that if they made some with a matte finish.. Where did you order them from? Just curious..
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Directly from the VZ site....I am gonna experiment with one...Im looking for a sort of rubber spray paint...If i can find one im gonna spray it.
Maybe with the white fascinate coming out at best buy I can buy the white back. Looks nice.
Ok, got the OEM/Verizon Kickstand case in and the $2 Stealth Guards films. The kickstand case is THE solution for the battery door IMHO, but I got both mainly for this reason. Mini review of each:
The Kickstand case, I got from eBay, for $11 shipped w/ tax (just search for "fascinate kickstand"), which is half off the in store price you'll find. It is THE solution to the slippery battery door IMHO, and the best case out there right now. The case has a slight rubberized / soft touch finish, and has a grip pattern in it, which makes it much easier to hold onto. It's quite thin, except for a bump caused by the kickstand, which is leveled so the phone lays flat, by some "feet" on the back. That slight bump I actually like, because I can easily tell which way the phone is oriented in my hand without looking at it. It provides nice protection to the sides and corners and back, so I think it will provide added drop protection. It fits very tight, I wouldn't expect it to come off ever. What I really like, is that it barely protrudes above the front of the phone at all, it adds a very slight lip at the sides, and that's it. This keeps the phone quite flat/thin still and doesn't change how you'd interact with the screen at all. The slight lip should help protect the screen though. All the cutouts are excellent in positioning, and provide nice "cover" for the side buttons against accidental actuation.
Probably the nicest thing of all which I didn't expect, is that the Kickstand works in both Portrait with the phone vertical, and horizontal in landscape, due to the way they positioned the kickstand on the back. It works great - this takes care of one of the things I missed from my Touch Pro2 (the tilting screen). It also has a tensioner, which allows you to tweak the angle in horizontal/landscape a bit because it's "stiff". For the $11 I paid for it, it's worth every penny and seems quite solid/well engineered for the price.
Only downside I see is that it's a bit tougher to take the battery out of course..
The Stealth Guards films are better than nothing, but not much grippier than stock. They come with just two films, front and back. Application and clarity is similar to other "invisible shield" type products. Not a very good screen protector (orange peel, tiny bubbles, not crystal clear), Steinheil is WAY better, but they don't have them yet for our phones so I'll use this in the mean time. Also, they cover the light/prox sensor at the top of the phone, which I found made the automatic backlight adjustment sorta freak out and switch more often than it should (probably because the protector is relatively thick and not crystal clear) - I cut a tiny window out around them with a razor blade and that fixed the issue. They shipped in an envelope, inside another envelope, I ordered 3 sets for myself and friends, and every one came with wrinkling/damage. Fortunately the films are very durable so the films themselves were unharmed - it was the paper backing that was wrinkled. Still, they could of reinforced the envelope with a little cardboard.... Also they come with no instructions or packing at all, just bulk/oem packed. Still, for $2 they were worth it, but not worth much more than that.
suzook said:
I just ordered 3 brand new covers directly from VZ...They are only $3 bux each...Ill just replace them when needed.
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How did you get them for $3? It says they are $5.
I buy this cover its awesome check it out
http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-CASE-SCREEN-SAVER-BELT-CLIP-HOLSTER-LG-G2X-/290590089781?pt=PD
A_Accessories&hash=item43a884e235#ht_4213wt_1037
Sold me...I just ordered one.
This will now make 8 cases I own for the G2x...I think I might have a problem.
This is my 4 and love it
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
Looks good but nothing's going to pull me away from my Trident case
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
Just ordered one myself. Been looking for something like this.
I just received mine in the mail. I don't know how I feel about it yet, so I'll just post observations.
1) The holster appears to be of much cheaper quality than my Seidio holster.
2) The holster is dimensionally similar to the Seidio, and in fact, the same cases that will fit in my Seidio holster also fit perfectly in this holster (seidio surface, nillkin cases, and this new aquaflex case).
3) The pictures showed being able to insert the phone with the case into the holster with the screen showing, as well...However, there is no possible way to do this without damaging it, that I can see. I needed to take the case off in order to insert the phone into the case that way (with the case off, it does fit well with the screen facing you).
4) The belt clip has a neat "kick-stand" feature, by snapping the clip into the plastic tab. You can also adjust the angle that the phone will sit facing you. However, make sure you have battery life, because you are unable to plug in a charger while it's in the holster.
5) The HDMI output is not blocked by the holster (Seidio holster covers the hdmi output). I suppose this could be useful if you intend on hdmi mirroring a presentation or something. Limited, but potentially useful, feature.
6) The flex case goes on easier than any other case I have, by far...and I have 8 of them now...it simply pops right over the phone. However, the removal of the case is among the more difficult of all my cases. It is even more difficult than my Trident Aegis...the only reason I would rate it easier to remove than the Aegis, is that it is 1 piece, rather than 2.
7) I can see that it will take me getting used to the buttons. They are covered by the case, but they do have a molded form to them. So on the case, the power and volume buttons feel as they do on the phone. However, sometimes when you push them in, the case dampens the "click" you normally would feel. So it just feels different. It is just as responsive, and doesn't seem to require any more effort to push than without the case, but it does feel different, and will take me getting used to it.
8) The case has a good feel to it. Does not have that gel quality that snags on your pocket liner.
9) It is dimensionally almost identical to the Seidio Surface case. Slightly bulkier than the Nillkin cases, but definitely provide more protection.
10) The color scheme of this case seems to match the G2x very well.
11) The seam line from the molding process is definitely visible, and someone raised. In two spots on mine, there is excess material. I think I can trim that down pretty easily with a blade.
12) The screen protector feels pretty smooth. It seems a bit thicker than I would like, but the cutouts are perfect. It is, however, of the narrower variety...narrower than the protector that came on my phone from T-mobile. I will not be installing this on my phone.
edit: I just discovered that I can sit my phone (with the case on) in just the bottom lip of the holster, and adjust the "kick-stand" back to the deepest decline and the phone will be facing me at a proper angle for watching video in landscape mode. This is definitely a plus, because I didn't want to have to take the case off during the day (unless I have to battery pull, but that has become basically non-existent since I started using Trigger 2x rom). BTW, this can also be done in portrait mode...but is somewhat less stable (you have to touch the screen softly).
another edit: If I can obtain another camera to take some good pics, I'll take pics of what I'm talking about so it's easier to follow what I'm describing.
I just got this case ordered hopefully I get it this week
So I picked up this case at a Verizon store this afternoon. I paid 39.99 minus 25% as I get that discount through my work. I have to say, this case is VERY nice. Adds very minimal bulk and if it works like advertised, should add decent protection. Here are some of my observations:
-The camera is recessed enough that if you lay the phone down on its back, it will not scratch the lens
-The buttons functions very well. Meaning they have good response and feedback through the case
-All of the ports and holes line up perfectly. The mic hole on the left is slightly bigger (oval shape, sort of) so this fits the Verizon version as well. That is the version I have.
-The hole around the camera/flash/pulse meter is plenty large so it will not interfere with the pulse meter function thing
-Not at all a lint magnet. The opposite as a matter of fact
-Does show fingerprints but not a huge fingerprint magnet
-IMHO, has the perfect amount of grip. Slides in and out my pocket nicely
-Edges are raised (I would say 1mm) so if you lay it down screen side down, the screen will not scratch (not sure how it will work with a screen protector though. I don't have one installed so I don't care.)
This one will definitely be a keeper. I also have the OEM S-View case and like it a lot, too.
Hope this helps if you are thinking of getting one.
.... pics?
h3ck said:
.... pics?
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I'd be happy to add them. How do you add them? I don't see "attach pic" button or anything. Maybe a dumb question. Is it the attach file button?
Depends on app, not dumb at all. Here's how you do via tapatalk.
POSTCEPTION
OK, I think I managed to get pics attached. See my OP. I am definitely not a photographer.
It's a very nice case. They had them in store when I went looking for a case for my phone, but opted to go with the original Samsung case instead.
I have one, very slim, nice feel, not sure about the orange inserts protecting against drops though.
Mine was $34 in store, I couldnt take my spigen tough armor any longer.
The heart rate monitor works (my tough armor didn't work, other had better luck). It fits with tempered glass screen protectors.
Its a tad hard to get off though, to change the battery out
Did they have the clear version?
No love for the Tech 21 case.
I have had a tech21 case for just about every phone both myself and my wife have had. Both of us are kind of clumbsy and we have never had a ding, or crack, or broken phone. Those little orange strips really work! Twice I even accidentally threw my phone and it went skipping on pavement about 15 feet (I was running while holding the phone and it hit my knee and went flying). Not a single scratch to the phone, although there were some good ones on the case. I'm waiting for the case to go to amazon at a much cheaper price since I don't get 25% off
Tech21 Classic Tactical
I have the same case, but in all black, so the orange strips don't show. Really snug fit. Waiting for my tempered glass screen to come. Will report if case interferes with screen protector. Does anyone else have a Tech21 case with wireless charging hooked up? Does it work thru this case?
I'm just wondering if anyone is using the Unicorn beetle and what do you think of it? What is the built in screen protector like? Does it work well with wireless charging and does the screen protector fit tight to the screen?
I have the black and the blue, extraordinary protection, wireless charge compatibility, no expensive. The cons a little bulky, the screen protector is better than previous models but it is made of plastic and I need to clean it constantly, but its clear, without sensitivity issues and it's only protection is versus scratches.
With the black, I replaced the plastic and used a White dome instead but I think that the thicknes of the glass was not compatible with the case and few weeks after the adhesive of the dome rip off.
Is it as good as an Otterbox defender though?
pacherecords said:
With the black, I replaced the plastic and used a White dome instead but I think that the thicknes of the glass was not compatible with the case and few weeks after the adhesive of the dome rip off.
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I have almost the same phone cover (looks the same) as you, mine is SUPCASE CLAYCO XENON and it is magnificent!
DeVilio said:
I have almost the same phone cover (looks the same) as you, mine is SUPCASE CLAYCO XENON and it is magnificent!
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they are all belonged to the same company
I use it and Love it!
Although, I had removed the Plastic Screen Protector.
I never liked that and will Not use a Plastic Screen Protector ever.
They scratch easily.
Did you get the case? I'm looking at beetle pro?
Where do I even begin with this steaming hot pile of garbage?
Ok, how about the basics: The button response is fantastic. Best response I've ever had in a case and a really smart design. One star for that. The fit is also fantastic, one star for that.
Now... If you are thinking about purchasing this item, keep in mind whether you did it through a signature on a contract, or you forked over your hard earned cash you are now the proud owner of a $1500 device which at time of writing is superior to 99% of the others you could have chosen.
With that factoid in mind, you really need to stop for a second before pressing that purchase button and ask yourself why you have given yourself the rolls royce of phone experiences if you are going to put the kingswood of phone cases on it?
From the second you take this thing out of the box, all the illusions of SUPCASE's snazzy manufacturer website, high quality rendered images and romantic illusions of ruggedizing your handset will fall away to dust. This case is plastic-fantastic and it is immediately obvious that you have just made a terrible mistake.
I'm not sure which case my fellow reviewers have received but I will have to assume it was one that SUPCASE paid for themselves.
The 'screen protector' seems to be made out of discarded freezer bag and glued in to the front section by a blind man with a hot glue gun. It feels cheap, it looks cheap...it is cheap. No big deal, you can rip it out in 2 seconds flat and fit a proper 9H glass protector.
Even after that, you are still carrying your $1500 phone around in a flimsy piece of plastic that looks every bit like the $5 price tag it SHOULD carry.
The dirt-quality plastic is thinly veiled in form, but in function it will not be long until the hinges of the kickstand mechanism are loose and weak. The stand itself is manufactured out of such poor, thin, flimsy material that it is nothing more than a momentary novelty, not long of this earth.
Dust protection: Yes. It has flaps over the charge port and headphone jack. The flaps are insanely stiff, which makes me think they put their entire materials budget into the internal rubberised liner which is actually stiff enough to put undue pressure on the charge cable to the point that I will not use them. They also put them right next to 2 gaping holes for the speaker port and S-Pen meaning any perceived dust prevention is pure fantasy. They will keep large debris out of the hole if you spend a lot of time in the bush, which is half the reason I bought this case.
"Oh, nevermind, I only charge wirelessly - I don't care if the port covers are stiff, I hardly ever use them!" I can almost hear the thought running through your head. Well, allow me to break that illusion.
SUPCASE have managed to do what almost no other manufacturer has been able to! Build a case that does not work with wireless charging unless you have the official Samsung horizontal charger and are prepared to spend a bit of time figuring out exactly the right spot to place it every time. So, you're going to need to worry about those port covers after all.
Why would anyone want a wireless charging solution that lays their phone dead flat? Most utilise an upright design which allows you to easily view notifications etc on a desk, or on a night stand. This thing even blocks my 15w upright charger, I'm not even sure how they managed that because I'm pretty sure you could cook eggs on it if they had an induction coil.
Overall, SUPCASE have really let themselves down here. The design is fantastic. It is reminiscent of the Samsung Active lineup in styling. There's a great lip top and bottom to prevent the screen from contacting the ground in a drop, it's well cradled in the rubber section and I do actually have a tiny bit of faith the phone could survive a drop in this case. Why they had to go and build the bulk of it out of the cheapest materials available I will never know. I would have paid double if they'd done the job properly. Now I'm out of pocket and will end up paying twice.