Hi, I am wondering to what extent Google has built into the android OS, ways of collecting data on the user, even when the user does not open a google account and uses only side loaded apps. ? Does anyone know the answer to this?
jaifora said:
Hi, I am wondering to what extent Google has built into the android OS, ways of collecting data on the user, even when the user does not open a google account and uses only side loaded apps. ? Does anyone know the answer to this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read this thread, even if it's about Xiaomi, on the 2nd page you will find your answer!
setmov said:
Read this thread, even if it's about Xiaomi, on the 2nd page you will find your answer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read trough the second page and couldn't find what you're aiming at. So far as I can see it's only about xiaomi ROMs and their proprietary apps, that cause the security holes.
nerotNS said:
I've read trough the second page and couldn't find what you're aiming at. So far as I can see it's only about xiaomi ROMs and their proprietary apps, that cause the security holes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you were asking is actually just the same! Short answer: Google is in your phone at a API level, and there is no way to get rid of it!
setmov said:
What you were asking is actually just the same! Short answer: Google is in your phone at a API level, and there is no way to get rid of it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same as the API itself is not the thing that sends the data. The apps that USE those APIs are the ones that route the data.
The apps on the thread
* AntHalService
* XiaomiServiceFramework
* Cleanmaster
* com.xiaomi.gamecenter.adk.service
* com.duokan.airkan.phone
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Click to collapse
None of them are Google apps. All of them are 3rd party. For example, my nexus 4 with stock Android doesn't have these apps, therefore no data is sent.
nerotNS said:
It's not the same as the API itself is not the thing that sends the data. The apps that USE those APIs are the ones that route the data.
The apps on the thread
None of them are Google apps. All of them are 3rd party.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An app has not to be Google proprietary. Android is!!! Are you aware of what info are sent out of your android phone without you will be able to intercept them? You are right, apps are sending info, as also Google per se are collecting info, all the time. Please, don't believe me, actually I'm suggesting you not to believe me, but sooner or later, you'll see! There is no firewall, root, or any other trick able to stop them or control them! The only way is to strip Android apart, and recreate a new API, but then, bye bye functionality!
setmov said:
An app has not to be Google proprietary. Android is!!! Are you aware of what info are sent out of your android phone without you will be able to intercept them? You are right, apps are sending info, as also Google per se are collecting info, all the time. Please, don't believe me, actually I'm suggesting you not to believe me, but sooner or later, you'll see! There is no firewall, root, or any other trick able to stop them or control them! The only way is to strip Android apart, and recreate a new API, but then, bye bye functionality!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is open source, if there were serious security exploits they would have already been found and patched out. If not by Google itself, then by 3rd party developers. It's true that Google collects data like your location, but ONLY if you allow it. Also, even if you're correct, disabling the internet will help anyone who's paranoid enough. Besides, the xiaomi thread deals in stuff a lot more serious (eg. money) than the misc data such as the % of time you spent playing a game. All in all, while it's possible to exploit Android and steal data from incautious users, Android as a system doesn't sell or give your key info (user, pass, card no etc.) to anyone.
nerotNS said:
Android is open source, if there were serious security exploits they would have already been found and patched out. If not by Google itself, then by 3rd party developers. It's true that Google collects data like your location, but ONLY if you allow it. Also, even if you're correct, disabling the internet will help anyone who's paranoid enough. Besides, the xiaomi thread deals in stuff a lot more serious (eg. money) than the misc data such as the % of time you spent playing a game. All in all, while it's possible to exploit Android and steal data from incautious users, Android as a system doesn't sell or give your key info (user, pass, card no etc.) to anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right, we don't have to be afraid of Google to use our data like Xiaomi, but....here is what I know for sure:
(copied from Xiaomi thread)
The point is that is not important what OS you are using, or what is the phone manufacturer. All of them send your data to their "masters". Said that, let's take a look at google. The first time you boot your precious phone, and you connect to the net, Google will receive your IMEI, your phone number, your location (based on network or gps, depends) an all the data you have on your phone. Ok, I know, I know, they are the owners of the Android OS, and they can do whatever they want, and you will never know what they are doing if you have a stock rom, You will not know what they are doing as a power user with highly customized rom as well. Why? Well, because their API. To be clear, the API, also known as "application programming interface (API) specifies a software component in terms of its operations, their inputs and outputs and underlying types. Its main purpose is to define a set of functionalities that are independent of their respective implementation, allowing both definition and implementation to vary without compromising each other.(as per wikipedia)" in not always an "open source project" and the Android core platform API is not "open source" at all, even in the "AOSP" project. The point is that when you use an android platform, if you want it or not, Google receive your data. Let me go further....a month or so ago, Google has implemented their Gmail policy, and started a new monitoring program against pedophilia, and at my point of view, this is a good thing, but, you have to know what's going on. actually they scan every email in your inbox and to or from their Gmail service searching for clues. If they find something, then you're screwed, because they know who you are. Believe me, they know! But this is not the point, so, where they store all the infos on you, and your Gmail account, when they find nothing? Oh, of course on their servers in the US!!! Based on the Patriot Act, the "Agencies" do not need any kind of "court order" to take a peek inside your life. They can do whatever they want, and actually they are doing it. Google will never say NO, and it's obvious why. Based on what is above mentioned, all the US based companies do the same. Unfortunately, the most of the world use Android, even if the manufacturer is Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever else. If you strip Android apart because all of that and you want your privacy back, you will find an interesting thing, that your Android will no more work correctly, and you will find it unusable. This is exactly because the core functionalities that spy on us. We can discuss this as much as we want, but these are facts. To be completely sure that no one is spying on you, someone would have to rebuild the whole Android system, but without a lot of money and the right "crew" this will never happen. Same thing you can expect from Apple (no need to mention the leakage of their cloud system) or Microsoft. Xiaomi, also use services that need your personal data...cloud, sms, mms, whatever, and by buying their product you agreed with them. They will not stole your credit card, but their "agencies" will know who you are, and what you do. But, to be honest, they will do you nothing if you are a non-Chinese citizen. I have never seen Chinese Agencies doing something to the rest of the world, but I have seen US agencies doing bad things to their citizens and the rest of the world. So, let's be honest and admit it, as much as we talk about laws, no one is protected by them. If you are gonna buy a phone, you have to face the fact that you will be under surveillance and monitored. If you have the luck and you live in Switzerland, then you're ok, if not, well....face it, you are SOL. You have just to understand that no provider, manufacturer or OS developer will never solve this issue, because there is no interest.
About AOSP: (from their site!!!)
- First, the software gets built into a system image for a device, and put through various forms of certification, including government regulatory certification for the regions the phones will be deployed. It also goes through operator testing. -really? YES!
- Once the release is approved by the regulators and operators, the manufacturer begins mass producing devices, and we turn to releasing the source code. hmm....
- In some releases, core platform APIs will be ready far enough in advance that we can push the source code out for an early look in advance of the device's release; however in others, this isn't possible. - hahahaha, ask yourself why!!!
And this is just for start. This is not an app-related issue, we are talking about Android CORE! I love Android, I am using it actively and I am happy with it, it's just that sometimes I feel that this is not fair, but hey, who am I to told them what is or it's not fair? Is not a matter of OS, nor device. All have the same core functionality! NO PRIVACY for them! Accept it or not, these are facts.
I'll start with this:
First, the software gets built into a system image for a device, and put through various forms of certification, including government regulatory certification for the regions the phones will be deployed. It also goes through operator testing. Once the release is approved by the regulators and operators, the manufacturer begins mass producing devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is built in compliance with the laws of a specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).
nerotNS said:
I'll start with this:
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is build and in compliance with the laws of the specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@nerotNS I am not going to make a discussion with you, on some points you are right, on others, you're very wrong! I would love to be like you!
So, between you, you seem to be saying that an android phone can definitely send info to Google via an app, but you disagree on whether there is anything built into the API which sends info to Google independently of any app which can be clearly seen in the OS. I am wondering if there is anyone who actually knows the answer to this, through being involved in the development of the OS, other than a Google employee who may not be free to tell the truth, if the answer would be unpopular. I wonder if a user can be free of their snooping simply by not opening an account or using any of their products, or whether the only solution is to wait for a truly independent developer to produce a stable, quality device?
QUOTE=nerotNS;56965212]I'll start with this:
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is built in compliance with the laws of a specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).[/QUOTE]
So, between you, you seem to be saying that an android phone can definitely send info to Google via an app, but you disagree on whether there is anything built into the API which sends info to Google independently of any app which can be clearly seen in the OS. I am wondering if there is anyone who actually knows the answer to this, through being involved in the development of the OS, other than a Google employee who may not be free to tell the truth, if the answer would be unpopular. I wonder if a user can be free of their snooping simply by not opening an account or using any of their products, or whether the only solution is to wait for a truly independent developer to produce a stable, quality device?
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Well, you can always turn on Androids built in Device Encryption (if you don't mind slower r/w speeds). Combine that with a firewall and what you mentioned above and I think you're good.
unclefab said:
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@unclefab - well said!!!
I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! Yes guys, when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage! You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device! I am no developer, and I am not calling myself as such, but I know what I am talking from a security stand point! I am not a conspiracy theorist, and I will not tell you what I am doing for living, but definitely I know what I am talking about! Some times people are definitely dumb! Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?Are you aware what a little cookie can do? Are you aware why they use fake cell towers? Are you aware why they collect your data? Ads improvement? Service Improvement? Court orders? Really? Google isn't storing your data? Or Facebook even worse? Can't you really see what is going on? You can think I am an idiot, but as @unclefab said, trust no one! I am telling you this as a fairy tale, you can or can't believe me, but check for yourself and you'll see!
nerotNS said:
Well, you can always turn on Androids built in Device Encryption (if you don't mind slower r/w speeds). Combine that with a firewall and what you mentioned above and I think you're good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you're not good to go! Not if you're trying to avoid gov. agencies! And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time (at this time only Lollipop is causing issues to decrypt) !!! But hey, you have any right to believe otherwise!
Just a little off topic example....do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
unclefab said:
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@unclefab finally someone with some common sense!!! BRAVO!!!!
I am really glad you have elaborated my post! Probably the most will not even see what we wrote here, but hey, someone maybe will be able to learn something new!
Again...BRAVO!!!!
unclefab said:
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
setmov said:
@unclefab - well said!!!
I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! Yes guys, when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage! You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device! I am no developer, and I am not calling myself as such, but I know what I am talking from a security stand point! I am not a conspiracy theorist, and I will not tell you what I am doing for living, but definitely I know what I am talking about! Some times people are definitely dumb! Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?Are you aware what a little cookie can do? Are you aware why they use fake cell towers? Are you aware why they collect your data? Ads improvement? Service Improvement? Court orders? Really? Google isn't storing your data? Or Facebook even worse? Can't you really see what is going on? You can think I am an idiot, but as @unclefab said, trust no one! I am telling you this as a fairy tale, you can or can't believe me, but check for yourself and you'll see!
No you're not good to go! Not if you're trying to avoid gov. agencies! And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time (at this time only Lollipop is causing issues to decrypt) !!! But hey, you have any right to believe otherwise!
Just a little off topic example....do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unclefab said:
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys are way too paranoid. First off, if you're all into don't track us down, why are you using the Internet in the first place? Now for the technical part.
The kernel is trying to get the the DNS because guess what? DNS is needed for Internet connectivity. Android is a smartphone and many of its services rely on having an Internet connection. So it's rather normal that a system-level part is trying to establish a network connection. OEM kernels have more of this compared to AOSP because they use their proprietary services.
And sure, you can use 3rd party apps, but they too can contain tracking data, and prior to 4.4/5.0 core system apps were open source, and you still don't have to use gapps.
Next, you can't change hardware embedded data like serial numbers for a number of reasons, security being one of them. If it was that easy you could never track down stolen phones for example. Much like a motor engine serial number in a car. Same goes for IMEI. Then you spoke about the past. Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online.
Further, yes you ARE good to go. Androids built in encryption system is pretty tough. If your bootloader is locked down, you have no custom recovery, it ain't that easy to get to your data (excluding nexus devices, because of their development nature this can be relatively easily bypassed). Plus, they'd have to have physical access to your device.
They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account. I've already explained why, plus it's for their statistics for example the number of active android devices, new Android device activations on a daily basis etc.
You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists.
Calling encryption dangerous is ridiculous to say the least. And yes, even "two story computers" are gonna have a bad time cracking it. Ever heard of a 256-bit AES?
Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too.
Conclusion: Yes, there are ways to compromise security and data. Yes you can block most of those ways. But this level of paranoia is ridiculous to say the least and sounds like something I'd see in a conspiracy TV commercial. Reading trough your posts here I half expected to see "The end is nigh. Hide your children!" kind of sentence. If you believe that we're all monitored, then throw your router trough the window, smash all your tech, and live in a candle lit room. But please don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV.
Now setmov I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance.
nerotNS said:
You guys are way too paranoid. First off, if you're all into don't track us down, why are you using the Internet in the first place? Now for the technical part.
The kernel is trying to get the the DNS because guess what? DNS is needed for Internet connectivity. Android is a smartphone and many of its services rely on having an Internet connection. So it's rather normal that a system-level part is trying to establish a network connection. OEM kernels have more of this compared to AOSP because they use their proprietary services.
And sure, you can use 3rd party apps, but they too can contain tracking data, and prior to 4.4/5.0 core system apps were open source, and you still don't have to use gapps.
Next, you can't change hardware embedded data like serial numbers for a number of reasons, security being one of them. If it was that easy you could never track down stolen phones for example. Much like a motor engine serial number in a car. Same goes for IMEI. Then you spoke about the past. Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online.
Further, yes you ARE good to go. Androids built in encryption system is pretty tough. If your bootloader is locked down, you have no custom recovery, it ain't that easy to get to your data (excluding nexus devices, because of their development nature this can be relatively easily bypassed). Plus, they'd have to have physical access to your device.
They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account. I've already explained why, plus it's for their statistics for example the number of active android devices, new Android device activations on a daily basis etc.
You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists.
Calling encryption dangerous is ridiculous to say the least. And yes, even "two story computers" are gonna have a bad time cracking it. Ever heard of a 256-bit AES?
Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too.
Conclusion: Yes, there are ways to compromise security and data. Yes you can block most of those ways. But this level of paranoia is ridiculous to say the least and sounds like something I'd see in a conspiracy TV commercial. Reading trough your posts here I half expected to see "The end is nigh. Hide your children!" kind of sentence. If you believe that we're all monitored, then throw your router trough the window, smash all your tech, and live in a candle lit room. But please don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV.
Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@nerotNS
- First thing, I've wrote "Some times people are definitely dumb!" not @unclefab! Please prove me that what I wrote is not right!
- Second, everything WE said is right! Why are you trying so hard prove it otherwise?
- Third, you can see what you have the ability to see! Maybe in your country the prosecutors, law enforcement agencies or else, need a court order, in the US they don't! You know why? Because of Patriot Act! Maybe you don't even know what this is, and you haven't seen the effect of it, but this doesn't mean it not exist!
- Fourth, you have your believes, and I have mine, so I will respect that and not try to change yours, and for me this discussion is over!
To the OP @jaifora, men, believe what you want, you have the right to!
Good luck
@neronS
"Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online. "
Saying that shows that you are either very young, or that you have never left your home town, or both.
It's not the cold war anymore, true, now it's the so called war on terror, the US allways need to have an ennemy (before that back in the 90's it was the war on narcotics, but you may have not heard about it).
International laws you said?
You think the States care about those laws?
Did they care about it when the UN said that the invasion in Iraq violates such international laws?
Have you heard about the Abou Ghaib jail? That was another nice example on how international laws are followed by the States.
Apart from that, have you heard about corrupted indian officials tracking indian facebook users that expose their scamms?
Have you heard about that indonesian atheist that got severely beaten up by an angry mob because he had declared on his facebook account that he doesn't believe in god, and that endded up in jail (the atheist, not the mob) for blasphemy?
Have you heard about that bangladeshi blogger that may be executed cuz he wrote on his blog that he's an atheist?
You want more examples?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the states, the country of freedom and democracy, the country where you need a court order.
What a joke!
Have you heard about all what the US did these last 200 years? And have you heard about what the US is currently doing in 2014?
I guess you didn't, hence your last reply...
But as for me I did, and that's why I can't trust such a country. That said, I can't trust the european, the chinese, the indian or the russian either, not to mention the middle eastern, as I already said I trust NOONE...
"They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account."
Really?
What about permissions like access fine location (precise gps location), read sms, send sms without the user's knowledge, write sms, read bookmarks, write bookmarks, read contats, write contacts, read call log, write call log, read contact card, read user dictionary, get accounts on the device, perms that can be found in apps where such perms are not needed, you want more?
Have a look at all the data leakage when you connect to the internet, and you'll see that it's not only about a few digits...
"You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists. "
You have just proved once more that you have never been away from home.
The vast majority of android users are people from emerging countries where one can buy a phone without giving one's name (so no need to fake anything) and the same applies for the sim.
Those people are not rich arrogant westerners, who think they know everything because mum and dad sent them to a good school, and they don't have any subscription cuz in most of those countries it doesn't exist or if it does it's very limited.Those people buy prepaid credits when they have money, that's it.
How many people in the States? 315 millions.
How many people in western Europe? About 300 millions.
Add Canada, 30, Australia, 20, how many is that?
India, 1.2 billion or even more.
China, 1.2 billion and counting.
Africa, nearly 1 billion.
Indonesia, 250 millions.
Maybe you should leave your hometown and travel a bit, the world doesn't end in the west's boundaries.
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too. "
Do a search with "linux kernel nsa", you will learn a lot.
" don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV. "
Well, I haven't seen it on the tv, I have seen it on the field and I know very well what human beings are capable of, which you obviously don't.
So please, don't spread unfounded reinsurance that everything goes fine, that google and the governments are ok, just because a guy talking on their behalf on the tv said they are.
Then, you can call me a conspirationist or whatever, I don't care, I didn't write those posts for people like you but for people that have their eyes open.
"Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance"
Where did I call anyone "stupid?
You, on the contrary, said that:
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else".
So son, instead of playing mister moderator maybe YOU should watch a bit your language.
Ah the kids of today...:silly:
unclefab said:
@neronS
"Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online. "
Saying that shows that you are either very young, or that you have never left your home town, or both.
It's not the cold war anymore, true, now it's the so called war on terror, the US allways need to have an ennemy (before that back in the 90's it was the war on narcotics, but you may have not heard about it).
International laws you said?
You think the States care about those laws?
Did they care about it when the UN said that the invasion in Iraq violates such international laws?
Have you heard about the Abou Ghaib jail? That was another nice example on how international laws are followed by the States.
Apart from that, have you heard about corrupted indian officials tracking indian facebook users that expose their scamms?
Have you heard about that indonesian atheist that got severely beaten up by an angry mob because he had declared on his facebook account that he doesn't believe in god, and that endded up in jail (the atheist, not the mob) for blasphemy?
Have you heard about that bangladeshi blogger that may be executed cuz he wrote on his blog that he's an atheist?
You want more examples?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the states, the country of freedom and democracy, the country where you need a court order.
What a joke!
Have you heard about all what the US did these last 200 years? And have you heard about what the US is currently doing in 2014?
I guess you didn't, hence your last reply...
But as for me I did, and that's why I can't trust such a country. That said, I can't trust the european, the chinese, the indian or the russian either, not to mention the middle eastern, as I already said I trust NOONE...
"They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account."
Really?
What about permissions like access fine location (precise gps location), read sms, send sms without the user's knowledge, write sms, read bookmarks, write bookmarks, read contats, write contacts, read call log, write call log, read contact card, read user dictionary, get accounts on the device, perms that can be found in apps where such perms are not needed, you want more?
Have a look at all the data leakage when you connect to the internet, and you'll see that it's not only about a few digits...
"You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists. "
You have just proved once more that you have never been away from home.
The vast majority of android users are people from emerging countries where one can buy a phone without giving one's name (so no need to fake anything) and the same applies for the sim.
Those people are not rich arrogant westerners, who think they know everything because mum and dad sent them to a good school, and they don't have any subscription cuz in most of those countries it doesn't exist or if it does it's very limited.Those people buy prepaid credits when they have money, that's it.
How many people in the States? 315 millions.
How many people in western Europe? About 300 millions.
Add Canada, 30, Australia, 20, how many is that?
India, 1.2 billion or even more.
China, 1.2 billion and counting.
Africa, nearly 1 billion.
Indonesia, 250 millions.
Maybe you should leave your hometown and travel a bit, the world doesn't end in the west's boundaries.
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too. "
Do a search with "linux kernel nsa", you will learn a lot.
" don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV. "
Well, I haven't seen it on the tv, I have seen it on the field and I know very well what human beings are capable of, which you obviously don't.
So please, don't spread unfounded reinsurance that everything goes fine, that google and the governments are ok, just because a guy talking on their behalf on the tv said they are.
Then, you can call me a conspirationist or whatever, I don't care, I didn't write those posts for people like you but for people that have their eyes open.
"Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance"
Where did I call anyone "stupid?
You, on the contrary, said that:
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else".
So son, instead of playing mister moderator maybe YOU should watch a bit your language.
Ah the kids of today...:silly:
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setmov said:
@nerotNS
- First thing, I've wrote "Some times people are definitely dumb!" not @unclefab! Please prove me that what I wrote is not right!
- Second, everything WE said is right! Why are you trying so hard prove it otherwise?
- Third, you can see what you have the ability to see! Maybe in your country the prosecutors, law enforcement agencies or else, need a court order, in the US they don't! You know why? Because of Patriot Act! Maybe you don't even know what this is, and you haven't seen the effect of it, but this doesn't mean it not exist!
- Fourth, you have your believes, and I have mine, so I will respect that and not try to change yours, and for me this discussion is over!
To the OP @jaifora, men, believe what you want, you have the right to!
Good luck
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I apologize for the mistype I didn't mean unclefab, I meant setmov with his "stupidity" remark.
As for you, I HAVE been around the world quite a lot more than you think. And in case you haven't noticed, I said that you need to give your name ONLY if on contract. I even said that using prepaid doesn't include this. And even according to the Patriot Act they still DO NEED at least a search warrant, otherwise it would be breaking the US Constitution. All the examples you gave above may be true, but you forgot to mention the fact that it was all placed PUBLICLY AND WILLINGLY. The aftermath is a completely unrelated thing. And yes, even though I am 18 I k of quite a lot of the matter as well as other things. Assuming something about someone based on age is immature to say the least. And finally you told me to search Linux kernel NSA. Mate, if you believe everything on Google, I hope you have anti alien cannons in your house. Also claiming that westerners are "rich and arrogant" is considered nationalism. Don't do it, it's bad. Plus everything I learned, I learned on my own. Not in a "good school". As setmov said, as far as I'm concerned the discussion is over, I don't want this to become a public fight. If you wish further talk, you can contact me in a PM.
I've search for information on this but have found nothing so I thought I'd post my findings here and see if anyone has anything to add/correct.
I've been setting up firewall blocking on my router using ASUSWRT-Merlin with Skynet firewall. I decided to block a whole bunch of countries that I deemed unnecessary/risky for security, including China.
Turns out, blocking China prevents AirDroid from working - it can't even log in.
Checking the log shows a bunch of domains that Skynet is blocking (stat.airdroid.com, stat3.airdroid.com, stat-push.airdroid.com, us-east-7-data.airdroid.com, us-east-8-data.airdroid.com, srv3-clb.airdroid.com, id4-clb.airdroid.com; possibly others). Telling Skynet to unblock these domains results in it responding with "Element cannot be deleted from the set: it's not added" (i.e. they're not blocked).
Removing China from the blocked countries list allows AirDroid to work.
Now this is where things get interesting, and how I figured out the China-wide blocking was causing this issue. In the log file that Skynet stores on the inserted USB drive, "skynet.log", it shows the IPs that these connections were trying to make. All of them are owned by Tencent (there were two prominent ones, but the entire range beginning with "49.51." is owned by them) - specifically, these are for TencentCloud (I assume those are their cloud services, like Azure or AWS or such).
Also, the three MAC addresses dealing with the Tencent IPs are my Note 9, Galaxy Tab A8 and my MacBook - the only three devices on which I run AirDroid.
I'm sure most people won't really care on what servers AirDroid are hosting, but personally, I'd rather not have any connections made to or from Tencent IPs if possible, especially considering how often AirDroid appears to be phoning home. This worries me, especially since this doesn't appear to be public knowledge. The only inconsistency is that a whois lookup shows AirDroid's host is GoDaddy, so how exactly Tencent is involved, I'm not sure... but they are.
If I'm mistaken about this, please feel free to correct me - I'd be happy to be wrong, frankly -, but based on what I'm seeing and the blocking/unblocking I've tried, it appears, at least for now, that this is true.
Guess I'll have to start looking for an AirDroid alternative, because this is unacceptable to me.
Attached are some screenshots of my logs with MAC addresses and personal IPs redacted in case anyone is curious. Yes, I realise the dates are different - I didn't realise I'd screencapped yesterday from the log until after I had edited the images, but the data is pretty much identical to the data from today.
Best I can tell, the Tencent IPs definitely coincide with AirDroid trying to log in and authenticate (and failing at the time because China was still blocked).
Thanks for this info, I was already having my doubts about Airdroid.
No problem. I'm glad someone found it useful. Nobody else seems to be talking about it, which bothers me.
If nothing else, Tencent's servers are being used for Airdroid's authentication servers.
Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.
wangdaning said:
Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.
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Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.
TankedThomas said:
Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.
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I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.
wangdaning said:
I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.
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The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.
TankedThomas said:
The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.
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If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:
wangdaning said:
If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:
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It is clear your goal is to defend a bunch of Chinese companies known for handing data over to the Chinese government.
The fact that you are purposely trying to portray me in a specific way to fit your narrow-minded view instead of being concerned about how and where data goes (and for the record, I care about where my data goes in general, but most people around here are already well aware of where data for companies like Google and Apple goes, but not for an app like this) is frankly ridiculous.
If you don't care about this (which you clearly do not), then kindly leave this thread and don't return. I posted this thread to let people who despise Tencent and their business practices know about AirDroid's involvement, and to see if anyone had more information. I did NOT post this thread for you to come along and defend Tencent's honour. Enough garbage companies already do that, and they've added as much to the discussion of privacy as you have (i.e. absolutely nothing of value).
Great concerns, for sure. Thanks for your input.
I tried the app, quickly isolating it from the WAN, and running with Xprivacy of course. Luckily, HTTPS local connection only is possible. I wouldn't sign up in this type of app and i wouldnt use the barcode reader to connect to WAN. Rendered LAN web app contacts chinese servers on the PC, but reviewing content it looked fine in a quick check.
The app seems chinese, it's giving me one notification bar in chinese, and rest of translations are chinglish. I don't say it's neccessarily wrong, i just want to know if this is an open source app to trust it. Otherwise, i will keep running it in strict LAN mode.
Now about the functionality, I like Synology/Windows like UI. So cool!
Contacts/Call log/messages/ringtones/apps work.
Mirroring and Camera worked once. There's some strange checkbox "Don't show again" to click on (?) in Mirroring settings which doesn't work. Update: Camera worked again once switching back to HTTP.
Files/Music/Pictures/Videos don't work at all, even the android app cannot see files. No clue why.
Notifications are shown again on HTTP, however they're not displayed by the browser AND they simply disappear later. No actions also. So unless you 're currently in the tab, you won't notice anything.
I struggle to find a use case for this.
* Mirroring isn't interactive - so together with Camera it's a very infrequent function to use. I'd rather have an interactive mirroring like MobilEdit (if i remember correctly), what a great app it was. Or a Dex type of desktop where you can really interact with the android.
* Messages is showing "SMS", which is something obsolete for me, using alt messenger with secure repository (not the standard unsafe android one). SMS and calls are dead to me long time ago, but i'd have been happy about possibility to reply a decade ago, definitely!
* The last resort is notifications, that'd save some time if implemented well, with history. But it's not.
* One more thing on my mind is ability to send APK to phone, ok.. but it's again a rare task, i wouldn't run this background service for this purpose if i can send the APK via bluetooth...
I look for an app that let me get rid of USB cable for sharing photos or musik between PC and phone.
Sorry if I didn't understood the whole elaboration, but isn't this not just a point to point connection? I wouldn't like that others have access to it.
Or is it about other services?
is this the same Airdroid that has been around for like 10 years now?