Related
So I visited www.phonearena.com yesterday and saw the news about the HTC Pyramid.At first I thought wow,Qualcomm and HTC won't only get left behind but will have about the same technology and will run at higher frequencies.
But then I remembered something that troubled me.I remember reading somewhere that Qualcomm's dual-core CPUs will be based on the current-gen Cortex-A8 by ARM,while others,like Samsung's Orion,will be using the next-gen Cortex-A9 that is superior in both perfrormance and consumption,while being designed especially for dual-core CPUs,unlike the A8.
What's your take on this guys?
No one?
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Strongly agree
i hope this isn't true. tegra 2 outperformed old cpu's with only one core running! that's because it's Cortex-A9. now, if it was Cortex-A8, i don't think there would be much of a difference.
In fact i think it is superior to the tegra 2 or Orion plat form despite being an cortex A8 architecture, but it is not a long term solution point proven as Qualcomm is developing it A9 counterpart the MSM 89xx
How it is superior? Well between A8 and A9 architecture to my knowledge there isn't much of a difference, the major one is enhanced soc and the capability to use DDR3 ram instead of being limited to ddr2
But how these two doesn't matter in the short term, well the first one is obvious because Qualcomm doesn't use just a Normal Cortex A8 architecture ( was used on the first gen of snapdragon) as the second generation MSM8255 used on the desire HD for exemple has an enhanced soc and cach point proven when compared to a lets say Omap 3 or hummingbird in every cpu benchmark i believe the MSM comes on top(correct me if i m wrong).
The second point which is about Ram, i don't believe we will be seeing DDR3 ram on smartphone anytime soon so at this it is a kinda useless advantage.
Now add to that if the rumors are correct that one cpu can be switched off if the charge is low then while the on tegra 2 which use a dual core architecture and not a dual cpu architecture.
Edit: this is true + Asynchronis clocking for each core!
Also in terms of graphics, the MSM8x60 comes with adreno 220 which is definitly faster than the adreno 205 almost as fast as the SGX540 and which is rumored to be faster than the GPU in tegra 2, the geforce, as for the Orion is believed to get the SGX543mp2 but Orion is not coming anytime soon, and probably will hit the market once tegra3 and MSM89XX is almost there (which comes with Adreno 300)
Hopefully this does help you, i know that not everything i mentioned is accurate, but i ll invite you to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdVw9uBIr5I
But how these two doesn't matter in the short term, well the first one is obvious because Qualcomm doesn't use just a Normal Cortex A8 architecture ( was used on the first gen of snapdragon) as the second generation MSM8255 used on the desire HD for exemple has an enhanced soc and cach point proven when compared to a lets say Omap 3 or hummingbird in every cpu benchmark i believe the MSM comes on top(correct me if i m wrong).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Synthetic benchmarks like that though don't gauge real life performance though.
vbetts said:
Synthetic benchmarks like that though don't gauge real life performance though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with you, but they do give a scal for the performance especially when there are different types that relies on a different system to test the perfomance.
In real world you have to agree that MSM8255 is the fastest CPU out there atm just look at how the Desire HD is a screamer! or even the G2/Desire Z with the same CPU but clocked 800mhz does a pretty great job even compared to the latest omap3/hummingbird phones.
Definitely, the MSM8255 45nm matches the old MSM8250 65nm even when the stock clock in the Z/G2 is only 800 mhz, versus that extra 200 mhz. The gpu is lacking compared to others.
vbetts said:
Definitely, the MSM8255 45nm matches the old MSM8250 65nm even when the stock clock in the Z/G2 is only 800 mhz, versus that extra 200 mhz. The gpu is lacking compared to others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No,the GPU of the Desire Z/HD only lacks against the SGX540 of the Galaxy S!
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
kurolife said:
In fact i think it is superior to the tegra 2 or Orion plat form despite being an cortex A8 architecture, but it is not a long term solution point proven as Qualcomm is developing it A9 counterpart the MSM 89xx
How it is superior? Well between A8 and A9 architecture to my knowledge there isn't much of a difference, the major one is enhanced soc and the capability to use DDR3 ram instead of being limited to ddr2
But how these two doesn't matter in the short term, well the first one is obvious because Qualcomm doesn't use just a Normal Cortex A8 architecture ( was used on the first gen of snapdragon) as the second generation MSM8255 used on the desire HD for exemple has an enhanced soc and cach point proven when compared to a lets say Omap 3 or hummingbird in every cpu benchmark i believe the MSM comes on top(correct me if i m wrong).
The second point which is about Ram, i don't believe we will be seeing DDR3 ram on smartphone anytime soon so at this it is a kinda useless advantage.
Now add to that if the rumors are correct that one cpu can be switched off if the charge is low then while the on tegra 2 which use a dual core architecture and not a dual cpu architecture.
Edit: this is true + Asynchronis clocking for each core!
Also in terms of graphics, the MSM8x60 comes with adreno 220 which is definitly faster than the adreno 205 almost as fast as the SGX540 and which is rumored to be faster than the GPU in tegra 2, the geforce, as for the Orion is believed to get the SGX543mp2 but Orion is not coming anytime soon, and probably will hit the market once tegra3 and MSM89XX is almost there (which comes with Adreno 300)
Hopefully this does help you, i know that not everything i mentioned is accurate, but i ll invite you to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdVw9uBIr5I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok,you convinced me!I'll be buyinh htc again!
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
vbetts said:
Definitely, the MSM8255 45nm matches the old MSM8250 65nm even when the stock clock in the Z/G2 is only 800 mhz, versus that extra 200 mhz. The gpu is lacking compared to others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As lotis said the only GPU that is faster than the Adreno 205 is the SGX540 and by a very slight marging in 3D while the Adreno wins in terms of 2D. The thing with Adreno GPUs is that they are clocked with the CPU and i believe the comparaisons were done with a G2 vs SGS + lagfix and froyo , i believe the GPU on the Desire HD does have a higher clock than the one on the G2 and thus perform better but again is this a fact or just another rumor if someone could confirm this..
But for a fact we all know that a stock G2 on pure android does 1600-1800 Quadrant score and a pure desire HD does a 1900-2100 on Android + sense out of the box
tolis626 said:
Ok,you convinced me!I'll be buyinh htc again!
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i m looking forward to the pyramid hopefully HTC will show it on the MWC (but im afraid there is a chance that they won't because they've just released the desire HD counter part in the US aka thunderbolt and inspire 4G) or else i might be tempted by the Motorola Atrix
whats up with all the fear and worries ? quandrant for tegra2 is a mere 1911 . it will get its a** kicked by anthing qcom makes in 2011 .
that said , there is a low possibility quandrant only runs single core enabled on quadrant , but what makes u sure that other apps will run dual core then ?
souljaboy said:
whats up with all the fear and worries ? quandrant for tegra2 is a mere 1911 . it will get its a** kicked by anthing qcom makes in 2011 .
that said , there is a low possibility quandrant only runs single core enabled on quadrant , but what makes u sure that other apps will run dual core then ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing!That's the thing!
At the moment there is no software that takes advantage of both cores.I think that Gingerbread also has problems.So we have yet to see the performance gains by dual-cores.
kurolife said:
In fact i think it is superior to the tegra 2 or Orion plat form despite being an cortex A8 architecture, but it is not a long term solution point proven as Qualcomm is developing it A9 counterpart the MSM 89xx
How it is superior? Well between A8 and A9 architecture to my knowledge there isn't much of a difference, the major one is enhanced soc and the capability to use DDR3 ram instead of being limited to ddr2
But how these two doesn't matter in the short term, well the first one is obvious because Qualcomm doesn't use just a Normal Cortex A8 architecture ( was used on the first gen of snapdragon) as the second generation MSM8255 used on the desire HD for exemple has an enhanced soc and cach point proven when compared to a lets say Omap 3 or hummingbird in every cpu benchmark i believe the MSM comes on top(correct me if i m wrong).
The second point which is about Ram, i don't believe we will be seeing DDR3 ram on smartphone anytime soon so at this it is a kinda useless advantage.
Now add to that if the rumors are correct that one cpu can be switched off if the charge is low then while the on tegra 2 which use a dual core architecture and not a dual cpu architecture.
Edit: this is true + Asynchronis clocking for each core!
Also in terms of graphics, the MSM8x60 comes with adreno 220 which is definitly faster than the adreno 205 almost as fast as the SGX540 and which is rumored to be faster than the GPU in tegra 2, the geforce, as for the Orion is believed to get the SGX543mp2 but Orion is not coming anytime soon, and probably will hit the market once tegra3 and MSM89XX is almost there (which comes with Adreno 300)
Hopefully this does help you, i know that not everything i mentioned is accurate, but i ll invite you to watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdVw9uBIr5I
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you're right!!
I didn't think it was possible for an A8 to be dual core
The dual core cortex a8 qualcomm is building is a heavily customized version. It has features from a9 built into the cpu.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
hey what do you say about the net quad core processors from nvidia.. ? smart phones will become computers and our laptops will be just a notebook..for music and bigger games
alexandru.j91 said:
hey what do you say about the net quad core processors from nvidia.. ? smart phones will become computers and our laptops will be just a notebook..for music and bigger games
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My laptop already is for surfing the net only because I prefer the large keyboard(it's a 17 incher after all ).Everything else I do with my smartphone,which has a 25% share of my gaming time.I also have a ps3!
Now,quad-core CPUs will first be for tablets(August 2011) and then for smartphones(Fall 2011?Maybe).These will pack some things like 12-core GPUs etc.Tests have already shown that they beat many dual-core x86 CPUs.What's next?Dunno,but I surely wanna see!
The next computers is possible, but relatively weak computers per say. But can any of our phones run crysis or crysis 2? Are they even remotely capable of generating over 10fps of it? Even the MALI 400MP, Tegra 2, adreno 220 or power vr SGX543 can't manage that. I don't think we'll be seeing any SoC's with that sort of power until maybe two years?
Point being, phones will never hold the same amount of power a computer can output. So computers will stay. Who's to say computer SoC's haven't been improving? sandybridge, quantum processing, six cores core i9, 48 cores? No one cares for computer news anymore?
Anyways onto the topic, looking at the new gpu benchmarks posted of the dual core snapdragon, 1.5ghz. They're making the other cpu's look bad. So maybe the SoC isn't that bad after all. looks like it was a prototype also so the finished product could be even better. Source:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/the-new-1-...sm8660-got-benchmarked-meet-the-new-champion/
Many people told me that samsung's CPU is the best,qualcomm's and TI's is not good,why? And I also want to know,what different from kinds of GPU?Is there GPU can called"The Best"?I am a Chinese student,my English is bad....Please don't care...
If you re looking at the dual core cpu's and you want benchmark "best" then the snapdragon whips the latest qualcom cpu in the sensation without some serious overclocking... to be fair though the sensation is still an amazingly fast handset so its hard to tell..
小刷同学 said:
Many people told me that samsung's CPU is the best,qualcomm's and TI's is not good,why? And I also want to know,what different from kinds of GPU?Is there GPU can called"The Best"?I am a Chinese student,my English is bad....Please don't care...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well technically speaking the iPad 2 has the best GPU on the market (by a long shot), but we're probably talking about Android here so:
The best is the Adreno 220 in the dual core Snapdragons. (ie...HTC Sensation, MyTouch 4G Slide), (Any Qualcomm chip ending in 8x60). The Mali400MP in the Galaxy S II is supposed to be amazing, but the benchmark performance is rather disappointing. Either it's clocked very low or comes with a terrible OpenGL stack or driver.
As for CPU performance. They're all fairly close. They're all using dual core ARM Cortex-A9s. The differences come from L2 cache amounts, pipelines, RAM type, etc. I don't think you would find any noticable in every day usage going from the Tegra 2 to the 3rd gen Snapdragons to the Exynos, etc.
If you're buying a single core phone the only ones to look at are Hummingbird based ones and 2nd gen snapdragons (ending in 8x55).
Still can't find any indication that IceCreamSandwich (Android 4.0) supports dual core cpu
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-4.0-highlights.html
We all know that any kernel already supports smp so it should't take so long for Google to make android OS support it too...
If you find anywhere a clue for that please reply
it should support.
but, this is the wrong section to post this question. The Nexus S isn't dual core. You may get better answers in Android General Questions
You won't find anything about it because dual core support has sort of been there since before 1.0, and really since before android. Linux has been multithreaded pretty much from the beginning, it isn't' something google needs to add to android, its all there. The huge performance boost we'll see with ICS will be from hardware acceleration in the UI, not some magical unicorn dual core support.
The reason all these dual core phones aren't living up to the hype is because the software the OEMs made for them really sucks, its not google or android's fault.
As far as I know IceCream Sandwich DOES support Dual Core CPU's.
imneo1 said:
Still can't find any indication that IceCreamSandwich (Android 4.0) supports dual core cpu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...
063_XOBX said:
Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because Android runs on such device does not automatically means that is uses both cpus(cores) for each process. for that to apply we should see threads of an app processes.
so my question remains...
Orangestrat said:
You won't find anything about it because dual core support has sort of been there since before 1.0, and really since before android. Linux has been multithreaded pretty much from the beginning, it isn't' something google needs to add to android, its all there. The huge performance boost we'll see with ICS will be from hardware acceleration in the UI, not some magical unicorn dual core support.
The reason all these dual core phones aren't living up to the hype is because the software the OEMs made for them really sucks, its not google or android's fault.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you said the same thing i said ... well, almost ...
I said that Linux support dual core (smp) but there is much more to that.
we should see that the VM actually uses the Linux(Kernel) support managing to provide a correct data to the kernel, so that the process will be threaded (run on both cores)
Can you (or anyone owning a dual core device) provide a proof for that ?
Can we see a process of an app runs on both cores ? (a screenshot from shell showing that it uses both cpus/cores)
also, you should read about SGS2 for example.
even though it has a dual core CPU Android only uses on core to run itself (VM) and apps
so the answer is not that simple as you pointed
and my question remains...
ICS actually supports multi-core cpu's, not just dual. Meaning it supports up to either 4 or 8 cores (I can't remember which)
Add edit: When there are more cores in phones, multiple cores will be used to run (like you said) the apps AND the system. Quad-core phones are supposed to be coming out this summer.
063_XOBX said:
Maybe the fact that EVERY SINGLE Honeycomb tablet uses a dual core processor is proof enough...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's funny, considering we're running Android 4.0.3 on our SINGLE-CORE phones. And add the fact that there's a small mod that will change it to the tablet interface, and you've got proof that you dont need 2 cores.
Just because multi-core devices are now standard doesn't mean that ICS 4.0 requires 2 cores. Our phone alone is proof. It's not a different version of Android. ICS on a tablet is the same ICS as on a phone, in a nutshell. That was the whole point of ICS in the first place -- to unify phones and tablets into 1 OS.
This is a hardware question, I have a friend who owns a Desire HD, now he goes on and on about how Single core phones are just as powerful as Dual core phones because, and this is his theory, a Dual core phone that says it is clocked at 1 GHz actually has either core clocked at 500 MHz, whereas the core in a Single core phone is clocked at 1 Ghz flat.
This just honestly seems like a frankly rubbish argument that doesn't make much sense to me, however I want to know if he's right, is there any literature out there that proves either way. Is he right? Or is he just being a boner?
Kryptyle said:
This is a hardware question, I have a friend who owns a Desire HD, now he goes on and on about how Single core phones are just as powerful as Dual core phones because, and this is his theory, a Dual core phone that says it is clocked at 1 GHz actually has either core clocked at 500 MHz, whereas the core in a Single core phone is clocked at 1 Ghz flat.
This just honestly seems like a frankly rubbish argument that doesn't make much sense to me, however I want to know if he's right, is there any literature out there that proves either way. Is he right? Or is he just being a boner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
long story short, he is wrong. keep in mind dual core s different from dual processor. the processor of a dual core simply allows 2 instructions to be carried out at onece adding performance to programs that have lots going on at the same time, but is still the same otherwise. They seriously help with multitasking so on android they would really help .
lkrasner said:
long story short, he is wrong. keep in mind dual core s different from dual processor. the processor of a dual core simply allows 2 instructions to be carried out at onece adding performance to programs that have lots going on at the same time, but is still the same otherwise. They seriously help with multitasking so on android they would really help .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct! It allows 2 different "threads" to be computed at the same time. Your friend isn't all wrong though. Any app has to fully support dual threading. If it doesn't you will see the same performance from a 1ghz dual core phone and a 1ghz single core. Also remember the architecture of the CPU is important. In many cases a 1ghz phone may perform better than a 1.2ghz phone.
Sent from my MB865 using XDA
Well, almost.
Dual core means there are two independent processing units on the same chip. The chip itself operates at 1gigahertz, and that generally applies to anything on that die.
so your friend is wrong, as both cores run at 1 gig, but a lot more factors relate to actual performance.
In most cases, single core will not perform as well as a dual core at the same speed. (assuming they are the same arch)
Sent from my MB865 using XDA
Some dishonest Chinese sellers will do things like this.
Some places you'll see dual core NEC EV2 based tablets as "1ghz" even though it's two ~500mhz cores.
Other places you'll see a single core device deceitfully advertised as "dual core" as it includes a GPU in addition to the CPU.
They'll then add the GPU and CPU frequencies together and sell a 1.1ghz device as 1.5ghz.
(And don't get me started about seeing "Cortex A10" in the specs)
So long as we're discussing legitimate specifications, your friend is wrong
The most important thing is.... To tell your friend he is totally true.. When he revises his theory somedays later, then listen to him.
Sent from my ME865 using XDA
It really depends on the apps that you are running. Gingerbread does not fully support dual core processors but the Android (linux) kernel does. So if the apps you are running are written to take advantage of the extra core, they will run faster on a dual core phone. Where it does help to have an extra core is multitasking, with a dual core phone you will be able to smoothly run more apps at one time. But if you benchmark an app that only utilizes one core on both a single core and a dual core phone, the results will not automatically favor the dual core phone.
Yes I've used the search tool and the last post in the last Exynos 5250 thread was at december 2011 and I can't find any rules about reviving old threads so I don't want to fiddle with it since I might get an infraction or worse a ban and and the last Tegra 4 thread wasn't coherent enough for me.
I don't know all the details but I would like to start talking about the supposed new Exynos 5250 and Tegra 4 development so please bear with me, I need all of those who has reliable information to add in the discussion. I'd like to start things with how will it fare against this year's smartphones and tablets? specifically the Samsung Galaxy S3 (1.4 ghz Quad ARM Cortex-A9 + Exynos 4412 & 1.5 GHz dual-core Qualcomm Krait + Snapdragon S4 MSM8960) and HTC one X ( 1.5 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 + Nvidia Tegra 3 & 1.5 GHz dual-core Qualcomm Krait + Snapdragon S4 MSM8960) since they are currently the top Phones out there in the market performance wise.
Further into the topic will the new Exynos and Tegra make their predecessors completely obsolete once they come out? or is the performance leap going to be minimal at best? due to various factors perhaps you can't fully utilize their potential due to the limiting software apps out there? What I want you guys to elaborate for the community is how better will it be in terms of CPU and GPU benchmark performance. Please do share your Ideas and any reliable information about the said topic at hand.
P.S. I just got an SGS3 my very first smartphone and android, did I make a huge mistake by buying it or should have I gone for a cheaper Galaxy Nexus and waited for the new Exynos to come out?
Itadakiimasu said:
Yes I've used the search tool and the last post in the last Exynos 5250 thread was at december 2011 and I can't find any rules about reviving old threads so I don't want to fiddle with it since I might get an infraction or worse a ban and and the last Tegra 4 thread wasn't coherent enough for me.
I don't know all the details but I would like to start talking about the supposed new Exynos 5250 and Tegra 4 development so please bear with me, I need all of those who has reliable information to add in the discussion. I'd like to start things with how will it fare against this year's smartphones and tablets? specifically the Samsung Galaxy S3 (1.4 ghz Quad ARM Cortex-A9 + Exynos 4412 & 1.5 GHz dual-core Qualcomm Krait + Snapdragon S4 MSM8960) and HTC one X ( 1.5 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9 + Nvidia Tegra 3 & 1.5 GHz dual-core Qualcomm Krait + Snapdragon S4 MSM8960) since they are currently the top Phones out there in the market performance wise.
Further into the topic will the new Exynos and Tegra make their predecessors completely obsolete once they come out? or is the performance leap going to be minimal at best? due to various factors perhaps you can't fully utilize their potential due to the limiting software apps out there? What I want you guys to elaborate for the community is how better will it be in terms of CPU and GPU benchmark performance. Please do share your Ideas and any reliable information about the said topic at hand.
P.S. I just got an SGS3 my very first smartphone and android, did I make a huge mistake by buying it or should have I gone for a cheaper Galaxy Nexus and waited for the new Exynos to come out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what better than Nvidia Tegra 3
First off, let's talk processors:
Your phone, the SGS3 i9300 is packing the Quad-Core Exynos 4412, rather than the dual-core Snapdragon S4 (MSM8960) for North American versions of the SGS3. The international version of the HTC One X has the 1.5GHz Tegra 3 vs the North American version which has the S4 as well.
Performance wise, these processors are all pretty on-par. Benchmark scores are close, with the Tegra 3 gaining the upper hand graphics-wise with its 12-core GPU. The processor to look out out of these 3 would be the S4, considering it's the first processor to (kinda) take advantage of the A15 cortex.
...The reason I say kind of, is because there is some discussion on the S4 being a hybrid between the A9 cortex (Tegra 3, Exynos 4) and the beastly A15. Qualcomm is a rebel, and doesn't follow ARM's chip designs like the others do. But I digress...
A15 is going to be a HUGE improvement over A9. HUGE performance gains, higher resolution displays, USB 3.0,OpenGL ES 3.0 (depending on the GPU) and much much more. The dual-core Exynos 5250 is going to be based off the A15 cortex, and it's going to blow even the quad core A9's out of the water. Tegra 4 will almost definitely be based off A15 as well, and it's going to be a sight to see. As for the Snapragon S5, who knows? I'm sure Qualcomm has some cool stuff up it's sleeve.
To answer your question, yes the new Exynos and Tegra processors are going to make older generation processors obsolete, but that doesn't mean you made a bad choice. The SGS3 is a great phone, and as such has tons of developers making custom roms, kernals, and other fun hacks to keep you occupied for the months to come hack away!
hope that helped!
You didn't make a mistake as at present android is not able to push current quadcore devices to their limits and there is a scope for lot more improvement
So even though next gen processors will be lot more powerful, your phone will still be able to handle next android releases so Don't worry and enjoy your S3
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
vivek_bhoj said:
You didn't make a mistake as at present android is not able to push current quadcore devices to their limits and there is a scope for lot more improvement
So even though next gen processors will be lot more powerful, your phone will still be able to handle next android releases so Don't worry and enjoy your S3
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android already has full multi core support. The only thing holding back multi cores is the fact that many apps still don't make use of them.
Also, that other guy made some great points but forgot to mention S4 Pro, which we already know a good deal about and is very impressive. It sets the bar high for the next tegra and for exynos 5250.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using xda app-developers app
Itadakiimasu said:
Further into the topic will the new Exynos and Tegra make their predecessors completely obsolete once they come out? or is the performance leap going to be minimal at best?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're not going to be "completely obsolete" (even GN and SG2, for example, are still good phones despite being "last year") but there is going to be a large performance increase to A15.
There's always a next big thing coming out, but generally it's not worth waiting for unless you're on the cusp. Even if the generation you shop is relatively old, the competitive market (unlike, say, that of a fruity company) helps to compensate you by providing discounts of the previous tech.
S3, in particular, is a darn good phone no matter how you look at it (except that it has hardware buttons, but I digress..)