My opinion on Clockworkmod - G Tablet General

I started discouraging its use on TNT Lite after the TNT Lite 5 fiasco, but I didn't realize that my opinions carried so much weight. So I want to set the record clear for everyone.
First off, if the developer / modder requires clockworkmod for their ROM, then that's the tool you need to use. I've had more than a few PM's on this question, but the answer is simple. Use what the developer asks you to use -- but also understand the risks. I would guess that most of the devs here mod with clockworkmod in mind.
For my own two active mods (TNT Lite 4 and gADAM) -- for the gADAM, it requires clockworkmod to install, right now. The reason why is because you HAVE to do a data wipe post-install, which standard recovery does not have. I have this written clearly in the instructions. As for TNT Lite, I discourage it for flashing, but I have instructions for clockworkmod users regardless. gADAM 1.3.0+ and TNT Lite 4.3.0+ have something called "Recovery Pack" built into them. This allows the user to toggle between clockworkmod and standard recovery.
Flashing is my concern, btw. For nandroid backups, data wipes and SD repartitions, the cwm tool is an absolute must. And if you are flashing between 1.1-based mods, clockworkmod should still be a low risk. HOWEVER, if Viewsonic releases a 1.2-based mod with a new bootloader, then cwm becomes a much higher risk. My point with discouraging clockworkmod for flashing on TNT Lite is just to get people used to the idea that cwm has caveats that might become a problem, later on.
When that new firmware is released, we will pick it apart and tell everyone the results of what we find. Hopefully my concerns are for nothing and the new firmware will be safe for clockworkmod users.
Also, for reference: I've been throwing around the term "1.1-based ROM" for about 2 weeks, now. Viewsonic's stock firmware has come in three flavors, so far: 1.0.1 and 1.1, which seem to be on the same dev branch and compatible (from a clockworkmod standpoint). Most, if not all, of the mods here are 1.1-based. 1.2 is a new dev branch that was introduced with build 3991, which was never officially released. This build has a bootloader that, if not flashed with standard recovery, will soft-brick your device. This is the dev branch that concerns me and that we should be watching out for, when that new firmware is released. As I mentioned, we will test it when the time comes.

when the time comes...
Somewhat quicker.
Thanks for detailed explanations!

absorbers said:
when the time comes...
Somewhat quicker.
Thanks for detailed explanations!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quicker is not always better, imo. If users here use cwm, they should understand the risks. I would argue that anyone using a mod here should also understand how to install and use nvflash - devices like the Advent VEGA, Notion Ink Adam and even Viewsonic's own Viewpad10s have nvflash-only firmware updates. I personally find it to be a critical tool for anyone modding their device.

Thanks for the explanation. As a n00b (Wooter) to all of this, I have to say that I have used the built in bootloader to flash both Vegan 5.1.1 and TNT Lite 4.4 without any issues. I did not install CWM based on your previous warnings about it and so far I haven't had any issues. I needed to do a factory data reset after changing ROMs to fix some FC issues, but so far I haven't seen a need to repartition the SD card or any other features that CWM has.

severusx said:
Thanks for the explanation. As a n00b (Wooter) to all of this, I have to say that I have used the built in bootloader to flash both Vegan 5.1.1 and TNT Lite 4.4 without any issues. I did not install CWM based on your previous warnings about it and so far I haven't had any issues. I needed to do a factory data reset after changing ROMs to fix some FC issues, but so far I haven't seen a need to repartition the SD card or any other features that CWM has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you have cwm ready for use, with TNT Lite 4.4.0 - it's in the Recovery Pack. So, if you find the need to do an SD repartition later, it's there for you to use. I find it to be a good balance and I toggle back and forth a lot. Actually, for day-to-day I leave it on clockworkmod and then flip it to standard if I plan to flash.

There have been some discussions in the partition thread regarding the 'fix permissions' portion of CWM making the repartition suggestion obsolete. I don't have access to standard recovery to check if that option is in there too but the permissions thing may also be a feature of CWM that will be difficult to let go.

roebeet said:
And you have cwm ready for use, with TNT Lite 4.4.0 - it's in the Recovery Pack. So, if you find the need to do an SD repartition later, it's there for you to use. I find it to be a good balance and I toggle back and forth a lot. Actually, for day-to-day I leave it on clockworkmod and then flip it to standard if I plan to flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, thanks for your work here. You guys rock! I am using TnT Lite 4.4, where do I locate the recovery toggle? Is it an app?

I wanna say Thanks for the 'Recovery Pack', I actually didn't find it until after I had
gone over the scripts in TnT Lite 4.4 and copied all the files to SDCard.
I then flashed back to Stock 3855 and gave Terminal Emulator SU, mounted system rw and copied them back in.
I ran the 'cwmrecovery.sh' and booted into ClockWorkMod and successfully did a backup (and later a restore).
I ran the 'fixrecovery.sh' and booted into Standard recovery and got the downloading animation and it proceeded to a normal startup (no exclamation!).
Is this normal?
I think there was an update.zip @ root but no command file.
Thanks again for all your work, looking forward to more modding.
Peace!

brown14you said:
First, thanks for your work here. You guys rock! I am using TnT Lite 4.4, where do I locate the recovery toggle? Is it an app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a set of scripts - just read my first post, and the Recovery Pack reference link, at the bottom.
jazzruby said:
I wanna say Thanks for the 'Recovery Pack', I actually didn't find it until after I had
gone over the scripts in TnT Lite 4.4 and copied all the files to SDCard.
I then flashed back to Stock 3855 and gave Terminal Emulator SU, mounted system rw and copied them back in.
I ran the 'cwmrecovery.sh' and booted into ClockWorkMod and successfully did a backup (and later a restore).
I ran the 'fixrecovery.sh' and booted into Standard recovery and got the downloading animation and it proceeded to a normal startup (no exclamation!).
Is this normal?
I think there was an update.zip @ root but no command file.
Thanks again for all your work, looking forward to more modding.
Peace!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If memory serves, you should get the "!" and then a reboot. But it might not do anything if there's no command file (just hang there for a moment, and then reboot).

Thanks. Got it!

Thanks, I just booted again to recovery, no command or update.zip and same thing.

jazzruby said:
Thanks, I just booted again to recovery, no command or update.zip and same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To verify 100% that it's working, you might want to run an update.zip. ie. use the Recovery Pack standalone, it will just overwrite what's already there. Always good to know before you actually need it.

I'm not so sure I'd feel 100% just flashing the 'Recovery Pack'.
I was getting ready to flash Pershoot's Kernel so I think first I'll flash 3588 with stock recovery and be sure all's good.
Then I'll flash the RP and boot into ClockWorkMod and Restore 4.4 from backup.
Thanks for the Heads Up!

jazzruby said:
I'm not so sure I'd feel 100% just flashing the 'Recovery Pack'.
I was getting ready to flash Pershoot's Kernel so I think first I'll flash 3588 with stock recovery and be sure all's good.
Then I'll flash the RP and boot into ClockWorkMod and Restore 4.4 from backup.
Thanks for the Heads Up!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pershoot's kernel may not work with standard recovery, just a heads up. But you can certainly give it a go.....

Pershoot's kernel is nested in a subfolder and I need/want to wipe first.
I just flashed 3588 with Stock recovery and all's good.
I got root and flashed 'RP' and CWM restored my backup.
I ran TE 'fixrecovery.sh', rebooted into Stock recovery and I don't see the (!).
Aside from the downloading animation it seems like a normal boot.
This was with no update.zip @ root or command file in recovery subfolder.
So I guess it's safe to say that no (!) is nothing to worry about.
Just to be sure I dropped an update.zip @ root and same results.

Related

Installing CyanogenMod ROM V 4.2.15?

Hey guys, I just flashed and rooted my phone--primarily to install Arabic fonts in order to read Arabic text and websites. However, the characters are not appearing right to left as they should and the letters should be connected.
So I was reading and I was reading that installing the latest Cyanogen rom 4.2.15 and then applying an update will solve this problem. However, I cannot find out where to download this version of Cyanogen. I've tried to look for it, but I can't find it, can somebody please point me to the right direction? Does anybody know if even installing this does indeed solve this problem?
(I cannot post the link to the thread that is telling me to do it...the system won't allow it since I'm a new user)
Next time, post this in the Q&A section.
And, I just googled it, and this is what I found.
Not sure if this does what you're asking for, but it's worth a shot. To install this, I'm pretty sure you just flash CM 4.2.15, and then flash this on top of it.
I don't know if CM 4.2.15 will solve your problem, but here is where you can download it.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8UBN4VC1
That zip has a bunch of extra files you won't need. It's taken from this guide http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/Operating-System-Software/GUIDE-New-very-easy-way-to-root-G1-even-if-it-has-1-6-android/td-p/237395. It does have what you're looking for, in cm421.zip.
Thank you both soooo much for the quick responses. I'm currently testing this out and will update with my situation...btw this should work for the Mytouch 3G as well right?
Shadowafs8 said:
Thank you both soooo much for the quick responses. I'm currently testing this out and will update with my situation...btw this should work for the Mytouch 3G as well right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it will work for the MT3G, assuming that you have a 32B.
And you're welcome.
Wait...another quick question. Do I have to go through flash rec, or can I go straight to installing the zip?
Shadowafs8 said:
Wait...another quick question. Do I have to go through flash rec, or can I go straight to installing the zip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if you already used flash rec, then you have a recovery already installed on your phone. So if you have used that already, turn off your phone, and then press Home+Power to boot into recovery. You should be able to just flash the zip from there.
However, you might be using an outdated recovery. I would recommend switching to the newest Amon_RA recovery if you are on an outdated one. Instructions for installing that recovery are in his post in the MyTouch 3G Android Development section.
Alright, so I downloaded that .zip with the CM mod. I went to the home + power button menu and installed that zip. Once that was done, I installed that Arabic update zip u provided earlier and then rebooted. It's on the Mytouch 3G screen for about five minutes, is this normal?
EDIT: I wiped my factory settings and reinstalled the cm mod 4.2. It boots up fine. Do I have to rename that Arabic zip to update.zip then go to the update.zip option and update use that?
I downloaded it to see what the contents are. Yes, you'll want to flash it in the same way you flashed CM, which is from recovery. Be sure to do a nandroid backup in order to restore things later if it doesn't work out for you.
By the way, I'm not sure if that rom I gave you is 4.2.15 or 4.2.1. For future reference, you can find all the builds including 4.2.15 here: http://mirror.kanged.net/cm/stable/
If you want a better recovery I suggest either Amon Ra: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=721792 or Clockwork: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=639153
I personally use Amon Ra, however Clockwork has an app-based GUI, allowing you to flash updates like this one a little bit easier. I still use that CM 4.2.1 on a regular basis, occasionally flashing the new CM6 nightly builds. I find 4.2.1 to be very fast and stable, with Swap enabled and Zeam launcher.
Ahhh you gave me CM 4.2.1 which is why that Arabic rom didn't work properly lol...thanks for the mirror links, I'll download and install CM 4.2.15 right now and apply that Arabic update to see what comes of it...hopefully the end of my problems
Great news, it works perfectly now! The mirror link you gave me for CM 4.2.15 and the arabic rom is fully installed perfectly.
Though I have a question about Amon_RA recovery. I downloaded the .img file so with this, I'm I suppose to go into Flash Recovery and insert the path of the .img file then flash it that way? I think this is the way to go, but I'd like to confirm it just in case it's not and something happens
Shadowafs8 said:
Great news, it works perfectly now! The mirror link you gave me for CM 4.2.15 and the arabic rom is fully installed perfectly.
Though I have a question about Amon_RA recovery. I downloaded the .img file so with this, I'm I suppose to go into Flash Recovery and insert the path of the .img file then flash it that way? I think this is the way to go, but I'd like to confirm it just in case it's not and something happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have CM 4.2.15, you should have an app called Terminal Emulator. Place the .img file on the root of your sdcard, and type this into Terminal Emulator.
Code:
su
flash_image recovery /sdcard/recoveryname.img
Obviously, replace "recoveryname.img" with the name of the recovery you are trying to use.
Press enter at the end of each line, and to see if it flashed, press home+power, and you should see your new recovery. If you ever have any problems with flashing a recovery, use fastboot. It's the safest way to flash recoveries, but it requires adb to be setup on your computer. I'm glad everything is working fine now.
Excellent, it worked out fine. The only problem was that I couldn't type numbers in my terminal (something that I thought would be fixed in this version of CM), but I renamed it to recovery.img and it worked out fine. I"m now updating Nandroid, BART, and Google just to be on the safe side of things.
Now I have to repeat this for the G1, which is a bit more complicated with the radio and SPL settings
Thanks a lot for everything guys, this is such a great community, I'm definitely sticking around on this forum

[GUIDE]Updating to 4.22.651.2 OTA WITHOUT flashing a new ROM or wiping your Phone

This assumes you:
- Have the latest FROYO OTA installed 3.70.651.1
- Have some experience working with flashing things in recovery
- Have NOT deleted/uninstalled ANYTHING in /system
- Have defrosted any bloat you froze with Bloat Freezer or Ti Backup Pro
- Have S-OFF (Used Unrevoked Forever or a version of Unrevoked3 that includes Forever)
OK now let us get to it.
1. Go ahead and download the OTA like normal on your phone, but DO NOT install it.
2. Using a file manager copy the OTA zip file from /cache to /sdcard
3. Using Rom Manager, flash Amon RA Recovery 2.3 (Down at the bottom)
4. In Rom Manager, click the Reboot into Recovery button.
5. Select apply zip from SD Card and flash the OTA zip file that you put in /sdcard
--10 Minutes later.....you now have the UNROOTED OTA installed just as if you installed it normally--
6. Download the 2.6.0.1 ClockWorkMod Recovery zip from here and place it in the root of your SD card
7. Under settings > applications > disable FastBoot (re-enable this when you are done with the whole process)
8. Power off and reboot holding Volume down. The bootloader will scan and then will and ask you to press Volume up to install. Reboot.
9. Delete the PC36IMG.zip file from your SD card and place the attachment below in the root of the SD card.
10. Power off and reboot holding Volume down and then select recovery to start CWM recovery.
11. Choose apply zip from sd card. Choose select zip on sd card. You will see the SU file on the list, flash it to root your phone. Reboot.
You should now be rooted and can upgrade the recovery now to whatever style and version you want!
Enjoy! Please click the THANKS button if it worked for you!
----------------------------------------
Developer of Bloat Freezer - Freeze Your Pre Installed System Apps in One Click
Bloat Freezer - Android Market Link
Very cool!!
Great info ..hey if I follow these steps and skip the last part will my phone be stock / uprooted and good to go.for a trade in or repair? I've been trying to figure out the best way to unrest when.e3d comes out
I never updated to 3.70. I'm assuming I can do that the same way, root again, download the gingerbread, and root again?
I'm thinking it might just be easier to flash the rooted ROM and radios, but I'm not sure what's best.
if you have amon ra recovery (and a stock rom), you can simply download and click install.
I clicked install, amonra booted up, detected and ran update, click reboot, then the stock recovery will be active and updates the radios, once back in to sense, you can reinstall amonra or clockwork, then SU
worked for me.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1109230
im curious why the title says "WITHOUT flashing a new ROM" yet you are clearly flashing the rom in amon ra. sorry just got to nit pick
what happens if you have deleted some system apps. Such as nova and blockbuster. I saved the APKS on the SD card however but I did delete them?
JMQUINT00 said:
what happens if you have deleted some system apps. Such as nova and blockbuster. I saved the APKS on the SD card however but I did delete them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I wouldn't want to try it unless your prepared to do a full ruu reset if it fails.
the OTA is like a patcher, it deletes unneeded files, adds new files, and updates existing files... if its not completely stock it may (or may not) cause an error which the updater can't handle, and then you may be left with a half upgraded system.
if you nandroid *before* downloading the ota, you should always be able to go back, assuming you have perm soff from unrevoked forever.
it should run whether you have removed files or not. if it tries to delete a file that does not exist the script will just skip it. op i think you have bit of confusion going on though. you were only able to reattain root because you are s-off from unrevoked forever. if you are not s-off and do your method, which is no different then just excepting the ota and letting it do its thing btw, you will loose root until this new ota is cracked. just fwi, there was no "magic" from you flashing manually, the same script is ran and the same files are moved and patches are made regardless.
cant I reinstall the apps and put the apks in their original system folder?
DomSim said:
it should run whether you have removed files or not. if it tries to delete a file that does not exist the script will just skip it. op i think you have bit of confusion going on though. you were only able to reattain root because you are s-off from unrevoked forever. if you are not s-off and do your method, which is no different then just excepting the ota and letting it do its thing btw, you will loose root until this new ota is cracked. just fwi, there was no "magic" from you flashing manually, the same script is ran and the same files are moved and patches are made regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol OK so which one is it? Can n just accept the ota and run? I'm rooted on stock rom, but I deleted nova and blockbuster from the system? I know I will loose root which I got by using unrevoked 3, but I just want to know if I can do it without bricking the phone. Ty
JMQUINT00 said:
Lol OK so which one is it? Can n just accept the ota and run? I'm rooted on stock rom, but I deleted nova and blockbuster from the system? I know I will loose root which I got by using unrevoked 3, but I just want to know if I can do it without bricking the phone. Ty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
shouldn't be any worry about bricking but make 100% sure you are s-off from unrevoked forever and you should be able to re-root pretty much how the op outlined.
im currently running cm7. if i go back to a rooted stock froyo rom, will this work???
confused. I just don't understand why you wouldn't download the rooted version of the ROM from here on XDA and just flash it like a normal rom. Maybe I'm overtired and missing the point.
To me, its like this. If you're rooted, and want an OTA update, just wait for the devs at XDA to go through it and root it, and make it available for download. Then just download it and flash it. You get the same exact update that way, as if you took the OTA from sprint. Except this way you don't risk losing root, and your good to go.
If you're not rooted and your phone is stock, accept OTA like normal.
I don't understand why all this extra stuff needs to be done, and add more to the confusion. If your rooted, updating to the latest is simple. Download it and flash it in recovery.
DaEXfactoR said:
im currently running cm7. if i go back to a rooted stock froyo rom, will this work???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just download the update from here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1038701
Do a full wipe and flash like any other rom you've ever flashed before. You'll then be on the latest and greatest . (you'll probably be going right back to CM)
EDIT: and to the OP, sorry that I don't agree with you. I just find it more confusing that way, and I guess that whatever the point of doing it that way is, is sailing miles above my head.
k2buckley said:
confused. I just don't understand why you wouldn't download the rooted version of the ROM from here on XDA and just flash it like a normal rom. Maybe I'm overtired and missing the point.
To me, its like this. If you're rooted, and want an OTA update, just wait for the devs at XDA to go through it and root it, and make it available for download. Then just download it and flash it. You get the same exact update that way, as if you took the OTA from sprint. Except this way you don't risk losing root, and your good to go.
If you're not rooted and your phone is stock, accept OTA like normal.
I don't understand why all this extra stuff needs to be done, and add more to the confusion. If your rooted, updating to the latest is simple. Download it and flash it in recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point. I guess I am anxious. So there will be a stock ROM that is rooted, thats what I was wondering. I wasnt sure if every ROM would be customized somewhat...Thanks
DaEXfactoR said:
I see your point. I guess I am anxious. So there will be a stock ROM that is rooted, thats what I was wondering. I wasnt sure if every ROM would be customized somewhat...Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That link I supplied a couple posts up is a completely 100% stock and rooted version of the OTA update.
This is from the first paragraph of the first post of that thread.
"Stock 4.22.651.2 ROM, rooted and ready for your flashing pleasures. This is a completely stock ROM that has had nothing done to it outside of rooting & deodexing, it's not even zip aligned yet (sorry DrMacinyasha)
As always make sure your wipe your dalvik and create a nandroid before flashing."
k2buckley said:
That link I supplied a couple posts up is a completely 100% stock and rooted version of the OTA update.
This is from the first paragraph of the first post of that thread.
"Stock 4.22.651.2 ROM, rooted and ready for your flashing pleasures. This is a completely stock ROM that has had nothing done to it outside of rooting & deodexing, it's not even zip aligned yet (sorry DrMacinyasha)
As always make sure your wipe your dalvik and create a nandroid before flashing."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for your insight. only thing I am confused on at this point is why there are kernels listed to flash from May just below it? wouldnt the htc stock kernel from the ota be in this rom already? seems like alot of folks are looking for newer kernels to flash after flashing xhaus rom. Any insight would be great. thanks again!
rileyd5 said:
thanks for your insight. only thing I am confused on at this point is why there are kernels listed to flash from May just below it? wouldnt the htc stock kernel from the ota be in this rom already? seems like alot of folks are looking for newer kernels to flash after flashing xhaus rom. Any insight would be great. thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was a little curious about why those kernels were linked there too. I honestly haven't really kept up with thread, because I don't have an interest in flashing the update to begin with. I noticed those kernels are from May 4th, so it doesn't seem like they'd be the most current one. Without reading that thread, I first would've presumed that the kernel that comes with the rom would be the one to use. So, you've read through the thread and you're seeing that people are having trouble with the kernel that the rom comes with?? I'll take a gander over in the thread in a few minutes and see what I make out of it.
Well I f'd up and installed the latest update straight from sprint, instead of waiting for the rooted version to come out. I guess I thought I would find something exciting, but now I would realize it was kind of worthless and want to go back to a different rom like miui or vaelpak. I am s-off with unrevoked. Is there some combination of the steps listed I can use to back out of this?
Let me take a guess...did this update my radios and hboot to a version that would be incompatible with these roms?

[Q] ClockworkMod Recovery, ROM Manager, and Nandroid confusion

So I'm trying to update my rooted 3.0.1 euro 3G xoom to the 3.2 Hammerhead ROM, and here's something that is really confusing me:
I've installed ROM Manager 4.3.3.0 from the Market. Then I downloaded and flashed ClockworkMod Recovery 3.2.0.0 R4c via this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1074979
So far so good: I can boot to recovery and it looks that everything is working nicely... with the exception of the following:
1) Even though I have CWM installed, ROM Manager won't recognize it. It keeps asking to install it. I haven't done that though because I don't want to overwrite the one I flashed... how can I get ROM Manager to recognize CWM? Or, if I install a different CWM version through the ROM Manager interface, will that overwrite the existing install, or even break something?
2) I can't find Nandroid in the recovery menu of 3.2.0.0 R4c. It says that it should be there in the Wiki (http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_backup_or_recover_via_Nandroid), but no sir. I only have the options Backup and Advanced Backup in recovery; it doesn't say Nandroid anywhere.
The thing is - I made a normal backup and it created a folder with .img files in it, along with a nandroid.md5 file. So is this a full Nandroid backup or not? And should it not be a zip file? Meaning - will I be able to revert to this backup through ROM Manager or CWM later if it's not a zip?
3) Lastly, I want to install the Tiamat 2.1 Hammerhead ROM. solarnz writes in the instructions in step 6 to "install the rom". So do I do that from recovery? Or from ROM Manager? Which brings me back to my first problem, that ROM Manager won't recognize CWM and won't let me install a ROM without it.
Also - can I install the Hammerhead ROM from my rooted 3.0.1 device at all, or should I install 3.1 first?
I know these are a lot of questions all at once, but after hours and hours of searching and reading (and learning a lot!), I still can't figure this part out.
Many thanks to anyone who can help me make sense of this!
bobblack said:
So I'm trying to update my rooted 3.0.1 euro 3G xoom to the 3.2 Hammerhead ROM, and here's something that is really confusing me:
I've installed ROM Manager 4.3.3.0 from the Market. Then I downloaded and flashed ClockworkMod Recovery 3.2.0.0 R4c via this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1074979
So far so good: I can boot to recovery and it looks that everything is working nicely... with the exception of the following:
1) Even though I have CWM installed, ROM Manager won't recognize it. It keeps asking to install it. I haven't done that though because I don't want to overwrite the one I flashed... how can I get ROM Manager to recognize CWM? Or, if I install a different CWM version through the ROM Manager interface, will that overwrite the existing install, or even break something?
2) I can't find Nandroid in the recovery menu of 3.2.0.0 R4c. It says that it should be there in the Wiki (http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_backup_or_recover_via_Nandroid), but no sir. I only have the options Backup and Advanced Backup in recovery; it doesn't say Nandroid anywhere.
The thing is - I made a normal backup and it created a folder with .img files in it, along with a nandroid.md5 file. So is this a full Nandroid backup or not? And should it not be a zip file? Meaning - will I be able to revert to this backup through ROM Manager or CWM later if it's not a zip?
3) Lastly, I want to install the Tiamat 2.1 Hammerhead ROM. solarnz writes in the instructions in step 6 to "install the rom". So do I do that from recovery? Or from ROM Manager? Which brings me back to my first problem, that ROM Manager won't recognize CWM and won't let me install a ROM without it.
Also - can I install the Hammerhead ROM from my rooted 3.0.1 device at all, or should I install 3.1 first?
I know these are a lot of questions all at once, but after hours and hours of searching and reading (and learning a lot!), I still can't figure this part out.
Many thanks to anyone who can help me make sense of this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forget about Rom Manager. You have the correct recovery installed and you have made a "nandroid" backup when you used the backup option in CWM recovery 3.2.0.0 R4c. The Rom you want to flash needs to be on your MicroSD card and that needs to be in your Xoom when you boot into recovery. It is from the CWM recovery menu that you will choose to flash the zip file that will install the Rom. You will need to be able to boot into recovery and you can do it by pressing volume up and power to get to dual core screen, then after 3 seconds, press volume down then volume up and you should be in recovery. Or you could download Quick Boot from the market and use its boot into recovery option (that's what I do).
About the version you need to be on to flash Hammerhead...what does it say? I think you may need to be on 3.1 but just read the OP on the Hammerhead thread...it will tell you the requirements.
Good luck!
Thanks a lot for explaining that okantomi, that's very helpful and reassuring!
The only thing I'm left with now is to figure out the version part... the rom OP doesn't say anything about a required version. Here's the thread btw: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1203635
I made my way through the first 18 or so pages of the 434 total pages in that thread, but still couldn't find any info on that. I'll keep looking - not giving up
Quick update... I decided to just go for it. I flashed the 3.2 ROM onto 3.0.1 - it worked perfectly without any hiccups whatsoever. I'm now running Androud 3.2 with 3G and it works beautifully. Can you see that I'm smiling?
bobblack said:
Quick update... I decided to just go for it. I flashed the 3.2 ROM onto 3.0.1 - it worked perfectly without any hiccups whatsoever. I'm now running Androud 3.2 with 3G and it works beautifully. Can you see that I'm smiling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too! ;^ )
Enjoy your shiny new Rom!

[Q] Stuck on boot animation Cromi X 5.2.2 Help

So finally took the plunge and flashed Cromi-X 5,2,2. Current set up is bootloader 10.8, TWRP 2.5.0 unlocked and rooted. I was running fine for a couple of days and decided to try cromi control to turn of a couple of notifications.I didnt reboot from cromi control as I read there was a bug. I powered off using the power button and when powering back on I was stuck on boot animation. Options I chose on the original flash was _thatv4 10.8 with defaults. No ET / OV / OC / No tweaks. So i decided to dirty flash 5.2.2 again without formating data I got to upgrading apps and when it rebooted, back stuck on animation. I am going to try flashing my original stock asus nandroid.prior to 5.2.2 just to get it working for the evening.
Doing a search of the thread now... See this has been covered on 5.2.1. I may have to wipe / format data IDK
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Update
Restored my nandroid and back up and running.. Guess I have some reading to do.
Would updating to 8.10 and latest TWRP help any? Maybe try that and use _thatv7 next go around.
GPWILL said:
Restored my nandroid and back up and running.. Guess I have some reading to do.
Would updating to 8.10 and latest TWRP help any? Maybe try that and use _thatv7 next go around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is always good to have the latest bootloader and TWRP. What is your firmware or bootloader now? What do you want to achieve or usage on your device? _that v7 on Cromi X is a nice combo with speed and stability...
GPWILL said:
Restored my nandroid and back up and running.. Guess I have some reading to do.
Would updating to 8.10 and latest TWRP help any? Maybe try that and use _thatv7 next go around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you got it working again. It's strange - what happened is typical for rebooting from the Cromi app, but you didn't.....
Did you do a factory wipe in TWRP before installing CROMi-X?
Also, it certainly wouldn't hurt to update your recovery. Just flash the bootloader/TWRP package in the CROMi-X OP and reboot to system.
My current working is 10.6.1.14.8 from ASUS and TWRP 2.5.0. I did a factory wipe in TWRP before flashing Cromi 5.2.2. Everything went smooth. I let google restore my apps when running thru the setup wizard. A little painful but only took 30 minor so. I didnt restore any apps or data from my TB. So I let it run for a couple of days with no issues. I ran into trouble with the chromi control. Wanted to get rid of that annoying external card notification. Powered off using the power button and boom. Things went south. I am not a overclock / tweak poweruser. Just wanted a little tweak since it looks like ASUS is not going to update anymore. My tab is a little over a year old and my only complaints have been browser lag and the painful lag of using the tablet when apps updates. My intent is to get 5.2.2. Run thru set up / installer a couple of times so I could get use the installer and then at some point venture into rom2sd or data2sd. Next go around I will get 5.2.2 working and nandroid that. I had tried B2R and it works ok. But with 5.2.2 it seems to give the tab a big 'push'. The browser worked way faster. I tried both stock and Chrome with 5.2.2 and was nice and smooth..
Thanks for the responses. If you think of anything else I appreciate it. Been on this forum for awhile and you guys are great!
GPWILL said:
My current working is 10.6.1.14.8 from ASUS and TWRP 2.5.0. I did a factory wipe in TWRP before flashing Cromi 5.2.2. Everything went smooth. I let google restore my apps when running thru the setup wizard. A little painful but only took 30 minor so. I didnt restore any apps or data from my TB. So I let it run for a couple of days with no issues. I ran into trouble with the chromi control. Wanted to get rid of that annoying external card notification. Powered off using the power button and boom. Things went south. I am not a overclock / tweak poweruser. Just wanted a little tweak since it looks like ASUS is not going to update anymore. My tab is a little over a year old and my only complaints have been browser lag and the painful lag of using the tablet when apps updates. My intent is to get 5.2.2. Run thru set up / installer a couple of times so I could get use the installer and then at some point venture into rom2sd or data2sd. Next go around I will get 5.2.2 working and nandroid that. I had tried B2R and it works ok. But with 5.2.2 it seems to give the tab a big 'push'. The browser worked way faster. I tried both stock and Chrome with 5.2.2 and was nice and smooth..
Thanks for the responses. If you think of anything else I appreciate it. Been on this forum for awhile and you guys are great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With your current firmware, 10.6.1.14.8, you should have the latest bootloader but you still need to update your TWRP to a later version, 2.6.1.0 or 2.6.3.0.. You need to pick one. I am still using 2.6.1.0 and it works fine at the moment and no plan to update to 2.6.3.0. I am very sure that you know how to update your custom recovery, TWRP,
If I am not mistaken, you have the old backup but not the 5.2.2 backup before it crashed... It is always a good idea to backup your good working current setup so you can go back or restore if something is going wrong.. One more thing about backup, it would be nice if you can keep your backup and personal stuff on your External SD, Not the internal SD...
Rom and kernel selections: Cromi v5.2.2 is the latest and the fastest in my opinion so it is your first choice unless you something else in mind.. You only have a few selections on kernel and they are all good and serve with a different purposes. sbdags is very closed to stock with a minimal modifications. _that v7 is the latest and more modifications comparing to sbdags. However, it is faster and more stable or most stable of all according to testers and users... Hund's kernel is the fastest of all with even more modifications and options for users to change settings. Testers and users report back with a little less stable comparing to _that but I don't have a single problem with this kernel... However, it is running a little warmer than sbdags and _that because it is running with higher frequency...Max kernel is another option but it seems like there is no supports at the moment. No one knows where he is, haha... Hopefully, we can hear back from him again...
Installation: Totally clean installing because you are already having issue...
1. Backup anything that you want to save including your personal data and files
2. Copy cromi and kernel that you want to install to your External SD because you want to format your data partition
3. Format your data partition and I mean Format, not wipe.
4. Wipe everything on your device including your system but not your external SD..
5. Install cromi and kernel of your choices
6. Reboot and let it sits for a few minutes, then you can do your setup from the setup wizard
7. Go back to your TWRP and do a nandroid backup to your External SD, just in case so you restore it
8. Install your apps or whatever you want from the google store, not from your TB so you can have a good and stable backup
9. After you are done with all the apps and games installation, you may want to do another backup in the TWRP
10. Now you can do whatever you want from this point and if you have more settings to do, you may want to do another backup as a Final backup and a good working one... You can delete the other backup from the previous if you have the final and working backup. You just need one good working backup..That is it..
You can always go back to TWRP to restore just your data or just a system or a whole backup. Those are the options that you can restore and good luck...:fingers-crossed:
LetMeKnow said:
With your current firmware, 10.6.1.14.8, you should have the latest bootloader but you still need to update your TWRP to a later version, 2.6.1.0 or 2.6.3.0.. You need to pick one. I am still using 2.6.1.0 and it works fine at the moment and no plan to update to 2.6.3.0. I am very sure that you know how to update your custom recovery, TWRP,
If I am not mistaken, you have the old backup but not the 5.2.2 backup before it crashed... It is always a good idea to backup your good working current setup so you can go back or restore if something is going wrong.. One more thing about backup, it would be nice if you can keep your backup and personal stuff on your External SD, Not the internal SD...
Rom and kernel selections: Cromi v5.2.2 is the latest and the fastest in my opinion so it is your first choice unless you something else in mind.. You only have a few selections on kernel and they are all good and serve with a different purposes. sbdags is very closed to stock with a minimal modifications. _that v7 is the latest and more modifications comparing to sbdags. However, it is faster and more stable or most stable of all according to testers and users... Hund's kernel is the fastest of all with even more modifications and options for users to change settings. Testers and users report back with a little less stable comparing to _that but I don't have a single problem with this kernel... However, it is running a little warmer than sbdags and _that because it is running with higher frequency...Max kernel is another option but it seems like there is no supports at the moment. No one knows where he is, haha... Hopefully, we can hear back from him again...
Installation: Totally clean installing because you are already having issue...
1. Backup anything that you want to save including your personal data and files
2. Copy cromi and kernel that you want to install to your External SD because you want to format your data partition
3. Format your data partition and I mean Format, not wipe.
4. Wipe everything on your device including your system but not your external SD..
5. Install cromi and kernel of your choices
6. Reboot and let it sits for a few minutes, then you can do your setup from the setup wizard
7. Go back to your TWRP and do a nandroid backup to your External SD, just in case so you restore it
8. Install your apps or whatever you want from the google store, not from your TB so you can have a good and stable backup
9. After you are done with all the apps and games installation, you may want to do another backup in the TWRP
10. Now you can do whatever you want from this point and if you have more settings to do, you may want to do another backup as a Final backup and a good working one... You can delete the other backup from the previous if you have the final and working backup. You just need one good working backup..That is it..
You can always go back to TWRP to restore just your data or just a system or a whole backup. Those are the options that you can restore and good luck...:fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Been awhile since I played with fastboot. Can I just flash the bootloader and twrp zip from the 5.2.2 Cromi thread and be ok? I know to flash this first and reboot into rom before flashing 5.2.2 again. Otherwise I will get fastboot going again.
"10.6.1.14.10 US Bootloader and TWRP 2.6.1.0 DOWNLOAD 1" This is in scenario 2 which doesnt really apply because I dont have a custom rom installed yet at this point.
I am saving these notes for future reference. Thanks for the time in writing these up.
GPWILL said:
Been awhile since I played with fastboot. Can I just flash the bootloader and twrp zip from the 5.2.2 Cromi thread and be ok? I know to flash this first and reboot into rom before flashing 5.2.2 again. Otherwise I will get fastboot going again.
"10.6.1.14.10 US Bootloader and TWRP 2.6.1.0 DOWNLOAD 1" This is in scenario 2 which doesnt really apply because I dont have a custom rom installed yet at this point.
I am saving these notes for future reference. Thanks for the time in writing these up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that it would fine since you are running TWRP 2.5. Please be careful when you install custom recovery and bootloader. If you make a mistake, it could brick your device, just my two cents.. Please ask a lot of questions to be sure...
Note: From your TWRP 2.5, install 10.6.1.14.10 first and reboot so the blob can update your bootloader. When it boots into the system, then you need to reboot it back into your TWRP 2.5 and install the TWRP 2.6.1.0. When it is done, then you need to shut it down and use your power button and volume down to boot back into your new TWRP...Good luck..:fingers-crossed:
Always check your download "MD5 Sum" to verify that you have a good download....
You have my attention now and I will take your offer to ask questions. So if I understand correctly the bootloader and twrp zip from above will allow to flash them individually? In twrp point to the zip and it gives you options to flash the bootloader without twrp? I would do this:
1. boot into twrp and choose install.
2. choose zip from above
3. choose bootloader only?
4. reboot into rom. let it sit for a few.
5 reboot into twrp
6 choose new twrp?
7 reboot into rom.
Just trying to be clear so no brick...
I would upgrade in goomanager. Thats how I got twrp to begin with. But I have read it doesnt work anymore?
GPWILL said:
You have my attention now and I will take your offer to ask questions. So if I understand correctly the bootloader and twrp zip from above will allow to flash them individually? In twrp point to the zip and it gives you options to flash the bootloader without twrp? I would do this:
1. boot into twrp and choose install.
2. choose zip from above
3. choose bootloader only?
4. reboot into rom. let it sit for a few.
5 reboot into twrp
6 choose new twrp?
7 reboot into rom.
Just trying to be clear so no brick...
I would upgrade in goomanager. Thats how I got twrp to begin with. But I have read it doesnt work anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never use the method from cromi thread but I trust sbdags as a great developer and so many users used this method without a problem...
If you are still running stock firmware version 10.6.1.14.8, then you still can use goomanager to update your TWRP... If you prefer it that way, then goo still works for you...If you are on stock version 10.6.1.14.8, you are already on the latest bootloader unless you want the latest stock firmware V14.10 which you will update it with Cromi any way...
1. Use goo to update the correct TWRP, 2.6.3.0 or 2.6.1.0
2. Boot into your new TWRP and install the Cromi and follow the instructions that I wrote earlier
Good luck..:fingers-crossed:
GPWILL said:
You have my attention now and I will take your offer to ask questions. So if I understand correctly the bootloader and twrp zip from above will allow to flash them individually? In twrp point to the zip and it gives you options to flash the bootloader without twrp? I would do this:
1. boot into twrp and choose install.
2. choose zip from above
3. choose bootloader only?
4. reboot into rom. let it sit for a few.
5 reboot into twrp
6 choose new twrp?
7 reboot into rom.
Just trying to be clear so no brick...
I would upgrade in goomanager. Thats how I got twrp to begin with. But I have read it doesnt work anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite.
You cannot flash BL or TWRP separately from that package. It's either both or none.
But flashing the package would be the easiest and safest method to get you on a current recovery in my opinion.
GooManager: For a few weeks now Goo did not support flashing recoveries anymore. I've read it often enough that I consider that information confirmed - although I have not tested it myself.
Now - just yesterday I read a post where a user reported that Goo got an update and he flashed TWRP successfully. That's one report I know of - if you want to give it a try, go for it. It can't hurt.
The thing is, to use GooManager you have to root the stock rom you are running.
I don't know if the stock rom you are running is rooted, but why bother if you can just flash sbdags package??
Sounds like choosing _thatv7 from the 5.2.2 also upgrades the bootloader also to 10? I assumed you needed the correct bootloader already installed.
I will give goo a go and see what happens.
GPWILL said:
Sounds like choosing _thatv7 from the 5.2.2 also upgrades the bootloader also to 10? I assumed you needed the correct bootloader already installed.
I will give goo a go and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well goomanager didnt work for me. Just sits on "downloading" forever. only option was to upgrade to 2.6.3.1
Off to get fastboot working..
GPWILL said:
Sounds like choosing _thatv7 from the 5.2.2 also upgrades the bootloader also to 10? I assumed you needed the correct bootloader already installed.
I will give goo a go and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
_thatv7 is one of the kernel choices - changing a kernel does not do anything to the bootloader.
Look at these elements of the system as parts of an engine: If the bootloader is the starter motor, the kernel may be the distributor.....
Thanks for trying Goo, the score is 1:1
Anyway, to get fastboot working is worth the effort. It's great for troubleshooting or pulling logs and such. It's very helpful to have a working fastboot connection BEFORE you run into some trouble and really need it to work
I guess my question is if I choose _thatv7 will bootloader .8 work? The 10 after the kernel choice is what has put me down this road.
fastboot and adb working. So getting there albeit slowly.
This thread really helped a lot in my learning process..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2546420&highlight=flash+10+6+1+14+10+fastboot
Thanks again for all the info and help.
GPWILL said:
I guess my question is if I choose _thatv7 will bootloader .8 work? The 10 after the kernel choice is what has put me down this road.
fastboot and adb working. So getting there albeit slowly.
This thread really helped a lot in my learning process..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2546420&highlight=flash+10+6+1+14+10+fastboot
Thanks again for all the info and help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's hardly anything different between the. 8 and . 10 bootloader. V7 works fine with either.
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
berndblb said:
There's hardly anything different between the. 8 and . 10 bootloader. V7 works fine with either.
Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update:
Updated TWRP to 2.6.1
fastboot and adb working
Flashed 5.2.2 Cromi-X _thatv7 this time around. (used the advice from above)
Set up apps
I will def nandroid this working config..
All good now.
Thanks to everyone!
FYI I updated goomanager and tried it again on my old setup and it still did not work updating twrp. Stuck on downloading app...
GPWILL said:
Update:
Updated TWRP to 2.6.1
fastboot and adb working
Flashed 5.2.2 Cromi-X _thatv7 this time around. (used the advice from above)
Set up apps
I will def nandroid this working config..
All good now.
Thanks to everyone!
FYI I updated goomanager and tried it again on my old setup and it still did not work updating twrp. Stuck on downloading app...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fastboot is a prefer method to use...:good: I always use fastboot for this stuff. It is fast and easy without any hassle...
How is it running? It should be running very reasonable speed and smoothness...
LetMeKnow said:
Fastboot is a prefer method to use...:good: I always use fastboot for this stuff. It is fast and easy without any hassle...
How is it running? It should be running very reasonable speed and smoothness...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is running pretty nice. Stock browser and Chrome are a little faster than my stock setup with B2R. I have had a few " laucher has stopped" errors. This happened before I installed any apps with thatV7. Didnt get a single laucher error before on thatv4. Stock laucher. Nice and smooth on apps and such. Both stock browser and chrome are faster but not anything like "WOW". Just a little better. Nice to have it built in. I am going to give this a few more days and see if the laucher errors settle down. If it stablizes I will get another nandroid of it and try the ROM2SD to see if I can get the wow factor going.

[Q] stuck in bootloop while installing elementalx.help!!!

i was installing elementalx on my nexus 5 via cwm. after going through the installer it asked if i wanted to fix root as i would lose it otherwise. i clicked yes. after that it started rebooting but got stuck on google. then went black. then again it showed google and is still looping. please help!!!
Try clearing cache by going to recovery.... Else my man you might need to flash stock again .....
To shutdown the phone press volume down and power till the time you get 3 vibrations
Dirty flash the ROM your on. What ROM did you flash EX on top of?
1) Download and flash the latest TWRP recovery.
2) Reflash your ROM. (Wipe cache and Dalvik)
3) Reflash ElementalX.
4) Never use CWM again. (It's completely outdated and is problematic with Lollipop).
BirchBarlow said:
4) Never use CWM again. (It's completely outdated and is problematic with Lollipop).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, it' funny. I keep hearing people say that but it still works fine for me. Maybe I'm just lucky. I've had way fewer issues with CWM than I've had with TWRP. There both good recoveries and TWRP is more current but to say CWM doesn't work is false.
theesotericone said:
You know, it' funny. I keep hearing people say that but it still works fine for me. Maybe I'm just lucky. I've had way fewer issues with CWM than I've had with TWRP. There both good recoveries and TWRP is more current but to say CWM doesn't work is false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was the other way round for me.... Twrp gave me issues .... I always use cwm touch .... Works good for me
i was on stock
BirchBarlow said:
1) Download and flash the latest TWRP recovery.
2) Reflash your ROM. (Wipe cache and Dalvik)
3) Reflash ElementalX.
4) Never use CWM again. (It's completely outdated and is problematic with Lollipop).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am on stock so will i have to install the 5.0.1 factory image. also once in a while green screen comes asking whether to reboot or go into dload mode. also do i flash twrp before the factory image. can you tell me how this is done via pc as i was using flashify.
thanks guys
thanks guys it worked. i flashed stock and its working perfectly. thanks.
theesotericone said:
You know, it' funny. I keep hearing people say that but it still works fine for me. Maybe I'm just lucky. I've had way fewer issues with CWM than I've had with TWRP. There both good recoveries and TWRP is more current but to say CWM doesn't work is false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say it doesn't work, I said it's problematic. I believe CWM is built on JB, so incompatibilities exist with KK and LP. For example, when you exit CWM whether you are rooted or not, it will tell you that you have a problem with root and offer to fix it. This is because CWM can't detect the SuperSU binary, it doesn't search the right place. Therefore novice users will say select okay causing CWM to install an outdated version of the SuperSU binary into the wrong location causing all sorts of problems with KK or LP. This is just one example of why it's better to just avoid CWM. TWRP is current and backward compatible. CWM is practically ancient.
1. CWM lacks functionality
2. CWM uses outdated legacy location of /data/media rather than /data/media/0 as sdcard/internal storage
3. CWM's option to "fix root" actually breaks root (and possibly other things)
BirchBarlow said:
I didn't say it doesn't work, I said it's problematic. I believe CWM is built on JB, so incompatibilities exist with KK and LP. For example, when you exit CWM whether you are rooted or not, it will tell you that you have a problem with root and offer to fix it. This is because CWM can't detect the SuperSU binary, it doesn't search the right place. Therefore novice users will say select okay causing CWM to install an outdated version of the SuperSU binary into the wrong location causing all sorts of problems with KK or LP. This is just one example of why it's better to just avoid CWM. TWRP is current and backward compatible. CWM is practically ancient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lethargy said:
1. CWM lacks functionality
2. CWM uses outdated legacy location of /data/media rather than /data/media/0 as sdcard/internal storage
3. CWM's option to "fix root" actually breaks root (and possibly other things)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never really thought about it from a noob stand point so there is that. With me it works but I will stop publicly saying so after this post. You guys do bring up valid points and I'm just used to using it. TWRP back when had loads of issues so I steered very clear of it for a long time. Now it seems the tables are turned. I know eventually I'll have to make the switch but for now I'm still happy with playfulgods swipeable build of CWM. You both have my respect for trying to steer users down a more user friendly option.
theesotericone said:
I never really thought about it from a noob stand point so there is that. With me it works but I will stop publicly saying so after this post. You guys do bring up valid points and I'm just used to using it. TWRP back when had loads of issues so I steered very clear of it for a long time. Now it seems the tables are turned. I know eventually I'll have to make the switch but for now I'm still happy with playfulgods swipeable build of CWM. You both have my respect for trying to steer users down a more user friendly option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, what works for you, works (until it breaks, of course).
But for newer users, TWRP is now recommended as it's more friendly, as well as being up-to-date. CWM has had it's time.

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