Database Info

GPS is a quality control problem

Hey guys,
I got in my 3rd "refurbished" Captivate last Friday and I have been collecting some data. For the record, I am using Cognition BETA5.5 FROYO on it without any lagfixes or modified GPS settings.
My first two Captivates -- the GPS sucked. I tried every fix in the book: Jupiter.xml fixes, Epic 4G fixes, LbsTestMode settings, different firmwares etc... some things helped a bit, but the GPS was still unreliable.
My 3rd Captivate's GPS works great from day 1. I've been testing it daily since I got it. I had a long trip to the New York Comic Con, which I used my 3rd Captivate to navigate. In areas that I previously had problems with, my new Captivate handles them with ease. I attached a screen shot of "My Tracks" on a turn that the GPS always overshot previously (now which works fine).
Anyway, I believe JH7 was the software fix for the GPS. The software problem was keeping locks from satellites <20dbHz and using >8 satellites. The rest of the problem is hardware due to poor quality control. This would also explain why so many people have so many different experiences. I say, if you want a reliable GPS in a Captivate, keep warranty swapping it until you get one that works.
/this also explains why some Captivates shutdown randomly, while others don't: poor quality control.

I disagree with this. I bought mine a few days before the JH7 update and didn't have a ton of time to play with the GPS. Using GPS test I was finding 8 satellites and locking onto ~6 of them in a minute or so. With the JH7 update I was finding and locking onto 11 satellites in 15 seconds or less consistently. My accuracy would stand at 16.4 feet (I don't think anyone has achieved better than this with this device). Starting this past Friday (10/8) however my phone won't lock at all. I'm only seeing 4 satellites and no matter how long I leave it, or what settings I touch there is no lock. This is a problem many people have. The GPS works for a while then suddenly stops. This to me suggests a software issue.

I think it is partially hardware related as well. My GPS on stock didn't work so well with the factory settings but worked perfectly with the supl.google.com. Every update since then up to Cognition 2.1.6 has worked perfectly every time for me. If this was a software or firmware issue we would all be having similar problems.

If someone proposed the theory that maybe supple.google.com isn't the best source I must have missed it. So I propose it. Spirent obviously is not, that's a test site.
I wonder if there is supple1.google.com supple2.google.com tzpst.supple.google.com etc.

phr00t said:
/this also explains why some Captivates shutdown randomly, while others don't: poor quality control.
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I agree that Samsung has poor quality control problem, or lack there of from my past experience with various Samsung products. However, I believe the GPS issue is a bad hardware design in Samsung's part. Based on my own observation, it is the poor GPS antenna design that causes poor GPS signal reception. In compensation for this poor design, Samsung tries to boost the GPS chip amplification power which in turn causes interference from all the difference radio sources and bad S/N ratio. Since this is purely an analog signaling issue, different phones show different results and even the same phone could show different results in different environment. I particularly noticed that whenever I pass by those noise isolating walls around the highways I travel daily, my GPS starts to jump all over the place. This indicates to me that the GPS receiver is very suspectible to signal reflections from those walls, may it be cell tower signals or else.
The problem with warranty replacement is that it is really a crap shot. You typically get a refurbished phones unless AT&T runs out of refurbs. Guess where those refurbished phones come from: (1) returns due to GPS issue. (2) returns due to shutdown issue. Since neither issue can be resolved or easily identified (the later is not even acknowleged as a problem AFAIK by AT&T), Samsuung/AT&T will simply refurbish those phones and send out as warranty replacements.

bwolmarans said:
If someone proposed the theory that maybe supple.google.com isn't the best source I must have missed it. So I propose it. Spirent obviously is not, that's a test site.
I wonder if there is supple1.google.com supple2.google.com tzpst.supple.google.com etc.
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Click to collapse
That's BS. spirent is not the problem. The original theory has been proved wrong long time ago. Change to supl.google.com does not solve the problem. Period. And getting a lock is only 1/3 of the GPS trouble you get into.

1) I am using spirent (or whatever the stock SUPL server settings are) and my GPS is working great. The problem is not the SUPL server (although changing it might have helped some).
2) If it were purely a software / firmware issue, we would all be experiencing the same GPS problems, which we are not. In addition, I would see the same problems with my new Captivate (which is running the same software), which I am not.
3) I do not have poor S/N ratios on my phone. I get 25-40 (sometimes better) S/N ratios, which is a bit better than my wife's Aria. I did notice poor S/N ratios on my second phone (15-30), which had the worst GPS performance. If it was poor hardware design, we would all have the same poor S/N ratios (and performance), which we do not.
4) Yes, getting a warranty replacement is a crapshoot. But hey, your current phone sucks and your next refurbished phone might not. So, swap it out -- you might get lucky. Samsung owes you a good phone anyway.
The problem is really chaotic, and people cannot reproduce the same problems (and resolutions) across different devices. This can only explained by people not getting the same devices... some are just more broke than others. Poor quality control.
/personally, I'm sick of digging through the Captivate GPS problem.. now that I have one that works, I want to just enjoy my phone.

phr00t said:
3) I do not have poor S/N ratios on my phone. I get 25-40 (sometimes better) S/N ratios, which is a bit better than my wife's Aria. I did notice poor S/N ratios on my second phone (15-30), which had the worst GPS performance. If it was poor hardware design, we would all have the same poor S/N ratios (and performance), which we do not.
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You are confusing digital circuitary with analog circuitary.
An analog hardware issue hardly will cause uniformly the same results. What you will see the S/N varies a lot between phones that's why some works, some doesn't. The antenna and satellite signal processing are still analog circuitary and prone to variations even with the same design. That's why SOME iPhone4s work just fine but others will drop calls when touched But no one is calling Apple lack of quality control.
Mine is 20 to 35 which is borderline.
The BroadCOM BCM 4751 is supposedly better at dealing with weak signals. I think Samsung is still experimenting different ways to get better locks in those marginal signal levels without causing the noise interference that in turn destroys the stable locks.

What is the general consensus of the % of owners actually having perceived GPS issues?

Someone please make a DIY on how to fix the damn thing myself... (hardware fix that is)

*Deep breath*
I know my 2cents really wont change this debate at all but ill go ahead and post my experiences with this issue K?
Cappy 1: Gps was just ok. it still worked but on navigation would try to "predict" where i was, jump off the roads and i would say on average i would be 20-50m off roof overhead and 10-20m if i put it directly on my dash where i couldnt see it.. This on average also took about 5 minutes to get a lock from standstill. Replaced for brick issue *incorrect flash being a newb*
cappy 2: Gps seemed to get worse everyday with this phone. mind you change the supl and jupiter tweaks seemed to help just a bit but honestly this one was just not usable. I could get a a lock in 5-10 seconds from a standstill and it would always be 10m accuracy.. so ok, it could help me know where i am immediatly but i cant see me standing in the woods going *deeerp where am i??* This was was replaced for random poweroff issue.
cappy 3: i literally just got this thing 2 hours ago picking up my mail so its fresh as can be guys.. jf6 stock right now. pulled my sim and battery into the phone at the mailbox and immediatly out of curiousity descided to test GPS. in no more than 20 seconds it got a lock of 50m..and then just a few seconds later im 5...5!!!!meters off. My eyes pop out of my head its in my hands at this time so i get ballsy and decide to put it in the lower tray in my car and take a drive. Wow...it just works now. It knew where i was and even told me and showed me a streetview of my destination before i got there...i should note this has NEVER happened i didnt even know it could/would do that :eek.
So my verdict is this. there are sofware tweaks to improve the quality and for some i dont doubt flashing firmware or applying changes has helped...BUT... overall this 3rd cappy is ...it just FEELS like the gps hardware is working right WITH the software. Things could always change with froyo and the the great devs here and if im proved wrong then wow count me impressed. Just dont hold your breath guys
EDIT: just to note exchanging your device is like playing the lottery. although these latest devices seem to have a higher success ratio im noticing. Ill also note i have NEVER exchanged instore but have always used mai to get my new cappy.

Based on the two comments here it sounds like I should try for a 3rd Captivate. Seems like 3rd times the charm. My 1st one GPS didn't work, I didn't run GPS Test or anything. Just know it never locked on me without the AGPS or whatever on. 2nd one same story. I have ran GPS Test on it and I'm lucky if I can get a view of 3 satellites outside in clear sky. It's usually 0 or 1. I've never had a satellite locked on.

Gps broken forever? Hardware or software.

I really need to know because I drive an ambulance for a living is the GPS actually fixable? I love the phone but hate the GPS that locks up and is inaccurate, or just doesnt lock on.The tweaks I've tired. No luck. I called Samsung and asked and they have no clue and think the Sept patch worked. I think its a cover up and the first run is just plain defective. What's the probability its hardware and not fixable.
Thanks Travis

Call att and get it replaced. I got a replacement phone and so far the GPS has worked when I needed it. It locks pretty quickly most of the time. Sometimes it takes 20 to 30 seconds but always locks reguardless
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm pretty certain it is a hardware problem and Samsung is trying very hard to see if they can fix it, or 'optimize' it, in software to avoid a mass recall of millions of these phones.

Smallsmx - a quick lock is very different from reliable navigation. Driving around using Google Nav as well as analyzing using something like MyTracks is the way to go to see if the GPS is actually accurate.
Here's a track I just created with MyTracks. If you zoom in, you can see that the track jumps between the north-bound & south-bound lanes of the highway several times, as well as veers off of the road several times. These may seem insignificant, but they're the kind of things that play havoc with navigation software (constant re-routing, etc). Also note that I'm in a rural area; i.e. no interference from tall buildings to blame this on...

I'm pretty convinced it is a hardware problem.. I've been through 4 Captivates, and only 1 has worked. The Captivate that has the working GPS works on all ROMs, but works best after JH7 (or the froyo builds). The other 3 Captivates, the GPS doesn't work anywhere.
I wouldn't want to trust my life to the Captivate's GPS navigation! If I found out my ambulance was being navigated by a Captivate, I'd wait for the next one

tblindt said:
I really need to know because I drive an ambulance for a living is the GPS actually fixable? I love the phone but hate the GPS that locks up and is inaccurate, or just doesnt lock on.The tweaks I've tired. No luck. I called Samsung and asked and they have no clue and think the Sept patch worked. I think its a cover up and the first run is just plain defective. What's the probability its hardware and not fixable.
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Please don't use the C(r)appy GPS for anything like that! It's just not up to it! Even if the GPS does work from time to time, you'll spend too much time second guessing it. Get a dedicated GPS that you KNOW works so you can concentrate on doing the important stuff like not hitting other cars and saving lives!
foxbat121 said:
I'm pretty certain it is a hardware problem and Samsung is trying very hard to see if they can fix it, or 'optimize' it, in software to avoid a mass recall of millions of these phones.
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Agreed 100%. If it was a simple software bug, it would have been fixed in JH7. They initially claimed JH7 fixed it... And then they contradicted themselves and said there was no GPS fix in JH7.
So Sammy is confusing us with smoke and mirrors and hoping they can still circumvent what is likely to be a recall only fix. Imagine the impact of a recall. Cost would be huge. PR would be a nightmare. Impact on future Galaxy S sales would be massive. See how cleverly and deviously Apple avoided an iPhone 4 recall with what was clearly a major hardware defect.
And for those of you that say your Cappy's GPS works perfectly, there is one of two conditions that apply:
1. You got a lock while stationary from > x satellites and assume from that alone that GPS works. A better criteria would be GPS tracking while driving in an urban environment with accuracy < 5m.
OR
2. The hardware defect is an intermittent assembly or fabrication issue that shows up in the majority but not all handsets.
So here's to hoping I am wrong and the official Froyo build is being held up while they correct the GPS problem once and for all. If not, here's to class action. In the meantime, Sammy and AT&T product managers, if you are reading this (doubtful) give us the source for 2.2 (kernel, hardware drivers and all) and let the XDA community have a crack at fixing it (and enable HSUPA, FM radio, native etx4, etc while their at it).

Before i flashed to the JPM and the reorinted 2.1 my gps would not get a lock after 10 mins after I flashed to the i9000 rom and shanged the gps settings to ms based I get a lock after 15-25 sec at 15m. its software related and att's reps are just dumb as dog **** and full of it too

tjsooley said:
Before i flashed to the JPM and the reorinted 2.1 my gps would not get a lock after 10 mins after I flashed to the i9000 rom and shanged the gps settings to ms based I get a lock after 15-25 sec at 15m. its software related and att's reps are just dumb as dog **** and full of it too
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Share a GPS track with us then.....

Tonite I will take screen shots of my gps settings and post them

tjsooley said:
Tonite I will take screen shots of my gps settings and post them
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Click to collapse
No need. We have millions of threads for just that. We need the evidence that you actually use it for navigation while driving. That's where it all falls apart (for majority of the Captivate anyway).
I can get a lock no problem as well with no tweeks in settings. But that doesn't mean the GPS is anywhere near usable.

foxbat121 said:
No need. We have millions of threads for just that. We need the evidence that you actually use it for navigation while driving. That's where it all falls apart (for majority of the Captivate anyway).
I can get a lock no problem as well with no tweeks in settings. But that doesn't mean the GPS is anywhere near usable.
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Misread the forum. I have not used it for a gps on the road for navigation yet.
I have watched it on the way home from work and it was prittyy accurate.
funny thing.
I dont get a lock from my cup holder but i get a lock no problem and the gps works on the dash board.
maby
if it is any differance all the sgs varriants are having a bunch of gps issues.
and there are people that have had no problems.

ianwood said:
Agreed 100%. If it was a simple software bug, it would have been fixed in JH7. They initially claimed JH7 fixed it... And then they contradicted themselves and said there was no GPS fix in JH7.
So Sammy is confusing us with smoke and mirrors and hoping they can still circumvent what is likely to be a recall only fix. Imagine the impact of a recall. Cost would be huge. PR would be a nightmare. Impact on future Galaxy S sales would be massive. See how cleverly and deviously Apple avoided an iPhone 4 recall with what was clearly a major hardware defect.
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Click to collapse
I'm sure the loss of future sales will cost Samsung more than a recall. My last 3 phones were Samsung and I sure as hell know if they don't fix the GPS issue, whether it be through firmware or a recall, Samsung will never see another dime from me ever again and I'm sure there's plenty of others feeling the same way.
There would probably also be about no PR. Samsung is no Apple. The media and general public really don't give a damn about them. The issue is not so controversial that the news will pick up on it, like the Toyota recalls. At most there would be a couple sentences on the news about it that most people will just ignore because they don't have the phone. Apple got worse PR by ignoring the issue than if they simply would have addressed it with a recall. They got away with it because they're Apple. 90% of the population worships them.

I was just thinking the same thing. My GPS does not work.
I don't understand people who think it's no big deal. It's a major feature and an Advertised feature...not some hack.
I would not have bought the device without GPS. What if you bought a new car that said it had air conditioning...but after you bought it...you realized it didn't work....no big deal or recall?
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

yea its a cover up
My whole plan and philosophy was that hey Google maps is great and so is Linux so this should, be better than those goofy slow interfaced GPS units.... which always give you the wrong location....
Anyhow I ordered one more..to see if its a dud too.
1ST SAMSUNG AND MY LAST YOU HEAR THAT SAMSUNK.. BTW your customer service is so poor girl who knows nothing about phones and thought the update was "real".

Jupiter fix w/vibrant ROM. Seems like I tried everything. Plenty of sats and locks while stationary. Can't get this thing to maintain lock or be accurate while moving in navigation for the life of me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm hoping for a software fix, but I'm doubtful that we'll ever see one. This is the same GPS chip as used in at least one blackberry where it has no problem. Combine that with the fact that there's 5 different Galaxy S phones that have these issues, each with slightly different layouts of where the chips are on the board, it's more likely a software issue.
If it is a hardware issue, or if it's a software issue that they never get around to fixing, I could see a very nasty class action lawsuit pop up. Personally, I hate class action lawsuits, as the only people who usually benefit from them are the lawyers, but one can always hope for the best.
One interesting thing I did notice was that when in my vehicle (a Jeep Wrangler with a fiberglass hardtop) or on my motorcycle, the tracks are just about spot on... as long as there aren't any tall buildings right next to me. It stops when I stop, it turns when I turn... You know, pretty much what you expect out of a GPS.
On the other hand, when I'm in a friends vehicle (metal roof, no sunroof), my position wanders all over the place. We stop, but the icon keeps on going. We turn, it doesn't. And, of course, there's always fun times when it thinks your a block or two over from where you are. Oh, and can't forget the lag... sometimes it's as much as 5 seconds behind me.
That makes me suspect the filters Samsung has in place for when the signal is weak. Either that, or the antenna design they use might win the distinction of being the most craptastic one of the decade. Hell, maybe both might be the case.

This whole thing with the GPS has me baffled..after reading a bunch of threads...posts..and personal experience, I believe the problem with the Captivate's GPS is the delay in getting a lock. Once it's locked, the accuracy is excellent. Maybe the agps is not functioning properly...these devices really need agps to get a rapid lock. Is the supl server that is built into the device reliable? I believe this is the crux. Anybody having any inaccuracies is the exception to the rule once the device is locked. But a 3-4 minute lock time is fairly unacceptable

Same results as others. If I have the captivate high up in the windshield so it has a larger uninterrupted view of the sky, it will track almost as well as my Blackberry sitting on the center console. Seems the captivate is not nearly as sensitive as other GPS devices.
As for PR, a recall would not be in your nightly news but it would be all over the trade news. The Galaxy S brand has been in the trade news almost daily for the past few months. A recall would put a serious dent in all that positive momentum. That would have a serious effect on future deals with carriers, retailers, etc. Not to mention investors. And finally disaffected consumers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Mine works with no view of the sky
My GPS is working good after COG Froyo version6. This track is from a mountain bike ride, phone was inside my camelback.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...16556845834261.00049360088f52c5ed399&t=h&z=16

nice looking track.. is your navigation app good too???
itsjustaphone said:
My GPS is working good after COG Froyo version6. This track is from a mountain bike ride, phone was inside my camelback.
[/url]
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Questions for ya if ya don't mind.
1. Did you have problems before with same phone?
2. Phone new or refurbished?
3. When was it made give or take? (maybe import in terms of factory runs???)
Hmm thats it far as identifying maybe some know how to timestamp/get ingo from imei or serial.
I'll post a track from mine in a little bit I Think that would be a great idea for this thread.. POST YOUR TRACKS RESULTS AND BASIC SPECS.
Believe program is called "mytracks"

GPS Band-Aid

This post got lost in a locked thread, figured I would repost it.
It's a real big band-aid, but it works fine for the car and is easier than rolling the dice and getting a new phone.
I spent 20 bucks and got a tom tom bluetooth GPS receiver, combined with a free up on the market called "Bluetooth GPS Provider" and I get 1M accuracy in Maps/Nav. Since I primarily only use the GPS in the car, it's not that big of a deal to leave an accessory in there.
If you need good in car nav, and are tired of waiting for a fix, something like this is the way to go. Tested for over 400 miles of driving, never lost a fix or lost track.
http://www.amazon.com/TomTom-Blueto...I2YY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292625649&sr=8-1
Edit: Link fixed, thanks.

Whole link did not copy ...
http://www.amazon.com/TomTom-Blueto...I2YY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292625649&sr=8-1

Thats what Samsung should do to resolve the issue, they need to release the Galaxy S GPS Repair Kit. It comes with one of these GPS Receivers and a piece of double-sided sticky tape...EPIC!

Yeah, it's kludgy, but it works great for the car. Only thing that really sucks is that the tomtom doesn't charge from USB, means having to carry another charger too. Oh well, battery last a good long time at least.

Holy markdown batman! $149.99 marked down to $18.99? How could that thing ever be worth $150?!
That's actually kinda tempting.

polarbee said:
Holy markdown batman! $149.99 marked down to $18.99? How could that thing ever be worth $150?!
That's actually kinda tempting.
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That receiver is old school. It's from the pre-smartphone days when everybody rocked iPAQs. The $150 MSRP was normal back then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

It's still a sirf-star and better than what's working on the captivate right now!

I decided to go the same route as you. Although, I wish I did earlier because that TomTom receiver is longer available for $20 on Amazon. I ended up getting a Globalsat BT-359 for $40.95 instead.
I have to say, while not the ideal solution, it's by far the best one yet. GPS now works perfectly. Fast locks, pinpoint accuracy, no lag, and never loses its lock. It basically works how you expect a GPS to work. While it does suck that I had to spend extra money on the receiver, and that I now have the extra steps of connecting/disconnecting the receiver whenever I need to use it, it's a small price to pay to eliminate the frustration induced when using the poor excuse of a built-in GPS.
I don't know about you guys, but I always had a bit of anxiety when using the built-in GPS. Cuz at every point, I was worrying about something. At the beginning, I'd worry about how long it'd take to obtain a lock. Then once I get the lock, I worry about how accurate it will be, how long I'll keep that lock, and whether or not the GPS will lag behind. It felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders when I was able to drive without having to worry about how the GPS was going to behave.
Although, this still doesn't change my attitude towards Samsung Mobile (I specify Mobile because I've had no issues with their TVs). As soon as AT&T releases a high-end Android phone that doesn't have a deal breaking issue, I'm buying it outright and selling my Captivate on craigslist.

I have a question about this thing: I use BT stereo to play music in the car. Can I use both devices at once?

Me too
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

ScottyNuttz said:
I have a question about this thing: I use BT stereo to play music in the car. Can I use both devices at once?
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Click to collapse
I'm able to use my bluetooth headset at the same time, so probably.

Donatron said:
I decided to go the same route as you. Although, I wish I did earlier because that TomTom receiver is longer available for $20 on Amazon. I ended up getting a Globalsat BT-359 for $40.95 instead.
I have to say, while not the ideal solution, it's by far the best one yet. GPS now works perfectly. Fast locks, pinpoint accuracy, no lag, and never loses its lock. It basically works how you expect a GPS to work. While it does suck that I had to spend extra money on the receiver, and that I now have the extra steps of connecting/disconnecting the receiver whenever I need to use it, it's a small price to pay to eliminate the frustration induced when using the poor excuse of a built-in GPS.
I don't know about you guys, but I always had a bit of anxiety when using the built-in GPS. Cuz at every point, I was worrying about something. At the beginning, I'd worry about how long it'd take to obtain a lock. Then once I get the lock, I worry about how accurate it will be, how long I'll keep that lock, and whether or not the GPS will lag behind. It felt like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders when I was able to drive without having to worry about how the GPS was going to behave.
Although, this still doesn't change my attitude towards Samsung Mobile (I specify Mobile because I've had no issues with their TVs). As soon as AT&T releases a high-end Android phone that doesn't have a deal breaking issue, I'm buying it outright and selling my Captivate on craigslist.
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Are you running Eclair or Froyo on your Captivate?

Found it here...
hxxp://dealsproshop.auctivacommerce.com/TomTom-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver-for-USA-and-Canada-P1259994.aspx#

This is a great idea. Also, if anybody has an older android phone with working gps that they no longer use, the same outcome can be achieved with a couple simple apps. I'm using my lg eve to send the gps signal to my captivate via bluetooth and it works flawlessly.

GPS on Captivate is already fixed, it works great on latest versions of Axura/Phoenix, but for 20 bucks it's good purchase anyway
Too bad that shipping to Europe costs more than reciever itself.

joedoe said:
Are you running Eclair or Froyo on your Captivate?
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Froyo. I'm currently running Cog 2.3b8.

TheNaturat said:
GPS on Captivate is already fixed, it works great on latest versions of Axura/Phoenix, but for 20 bucks it's good purchase anyway
Too bad that shipping to Europe costs more than reciever itself.
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Click to collapse
I haven't tried Phoenix yet, just Axura before it died. When you say "fixed", do you mean significantly improved, or legitimately fixed. Like if you were to do a head-to-head comparison with a Captivate paired with a bluetooth GPS receiver, would you be able to tell the difference? Cuz with the receiver, it's pretty much perfect performance.

Donatron said:
Froyo. I'm currently running Cog 2.3b8.
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I tried to attach a MTK v2 based i-Blue 737A+ Bluetooth GPS Receiver to Eclair, but it says
paired but not connected. However it works great with Galaxy Pad with less then 1 meter accuracy

There seem to be some limitations on the bluetooth. Im able to use any 2 of the gps, my bt headset or my bt obdii scanner, but all three at once and one of em wont work.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Donatron said:
I haven't tried Phoenix yet, just Axura before it died. When you say "fixed", do you mean significantly improved, or legitimately fixed. Like if you were to do a head-to-head comparison with a Captivate paired with a bluetooth GPS receiver, would you be able to tell the difference? Cuz with the receiver, it's pretty much perfect performance.
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Click to collapse
It's fully working, reliable GPS device. I don't have Bluetooth reciever, but in comparision to my dedicated Garmin navigation based on legendary SiRFstar III chipset there is no real diffrence, maybe it takes few seconds more to lock, but it's diffrence between like 5 and 10 seconds, so rather negligible in real use.

Amazing GPS performance

Went on a 180 mile trip today through SoCal and I was stunned at how good my GPS is now working. I'd done some tests locally, but never far enough of a drive to consider the results of any significance. Today, I headed east from the San Fernando Valley, through Pasadena, out to San Bernardino, then north through the Pacheco Pass into Hesperia in the high desert. From city to boonies and from about 350 feet elevation to over 3,500. My Cappy got a lock within seconds while sitting in my driveway and never once dropped lock the whole way there and back. Watching the screen the position marker remained steady on the road and did not wander at all. GPS is important to me and I finally have the performance I was getting on my Tilt 2. Yes, I had to go to a custom ROM to get it (Andromeda 1.2), but it runs so well on so many levels that I'm OK with that. Screw stock Froyo (which I tried along with Cog 4.x and GPS was mediocre at best on both).

I drove about 175 miles today using it, and never lost a lock also... I was using my girlfriends phone with stock 2.2. Was accurate to 10 meters whole trip... Had never had anything close to that before upgrade
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

Mine is horable.. just don't know What rom to go to
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Mine works good on any rom as long as I don't put the phone in my lap. Seems that the antenna gets a weak signal if placed back down and gets the dreaded large blue circle and looses accuracy. If I hold the phone up though it is balls on accurate.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Stock, I could lose GPS by just flipping the visor down. Today, I had the phone in my car mount, I put it on the seat at one point, put it to my head to answer a call...didn't lose lock once. All while playing MP3s via BT through the radio.

Im on stock 2.1 and my GPS has always worked fine in my car. I have trouble getting a lock indoors. I went on a 7 hour drive Thursday and didn't lose a lock once.
I wonder if some peoples GPS's are just junk and its the luck of the draw.

Mr_Ditters said:
I wonder if some peoples GPS's are just junk and its the luck of the draw.
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That may be for some, but I've had stock Froyo and Cog 4.1 on this same phone and neither had the GPS work as well as it does on Andromeda.

Miami_Son said:
put it to my head to answer a call
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Not the best habit in California, pretty steep fines for that.

Gerle said:
Not the best habit in California, pretty steep fines for that.
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I was offroad at the time.

Mine works pretty well most of the time.. seems to have a slight 'drifing' issue when stopped tho.. say at a stop light.. kinda strange..

hate to poop on the whiner party, but stock 2.1 and now stock 2.2 have worked as expected. totally. this is a gnarly phone.

FireFly is by far the best results I have ever had with GPS...locks super quick and stays!

It seems a lot of the Captivates' GPS, like mine, worked great when the new phone was used for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then it would degrade. Load a new rom on the phone and again it would work fine for 2 to 3 weeks then deteriorate again. I'm always interested in knowing how long the current rom has been installed and how much the GPS has been utilized. The fact that it worked good when new, makes me think the hardware is not the problem. I'm no programmer but I always wondered if the deterioration was the result of some "file" that grew in size as the GPS was utilized. And, as the "file" grew, time/power requirements increased causing the GPS to deteriorate. How could it ever work correctly if it is a hardware issue?
retnuh

hbgregg said:
hate to poop on the whiner party, but stock 2.1 and now stock 2.2 have worked as expected. totally. this is a gnarly phone.
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Oh, well, then I guess your singular experience negates that of the many other users whose GPS has been total crap. It must be all their fault and not the device.
At one point I had 3 Captivates in my possession and all had stock Eclair, Froyo, Cog 4.x and Andromeda on them at various times. This was typical of their GPS performance (the phone with Andromeda is on the left).

I've had fairly good gps performance but I'm not picky. However, in the last couple days it won't get a lock no matter what..just flashes. I'm not that picky, but I don't like that it doesn't even get a lock

My first captivate, bought in September, was exchanged at Best Buy on day 30. The GPS on stock eclair never was very stable from day 1, slow to lock, very unreliable on the move much of the time, although not always.
My second captivate had very good GPS on stock eclair. Not perfect, but fast lock and rarely wandered, for three months. Then one day, out of the blue, it turned into my first captivate. I factory reset it. No joy. I exchanged it at ATT warranty center, told them the GPS wasn't working.
The third captivate GPS on stock eclair was an order of magnitude better than the second one ever was. Locks instantly, indoors or out, always good to 5 meters no matter the conditions, it's just unreal. Still is with Froyo.
So, I can say I have had wildly varying experiences with the same software. That tells me there is hardware variance. I haven't tried software fixes, ever, so I can at least be a reference point from that perspective.
Bob

retnuh said:
It seems a lot of the Captivates' GPS, like mine, worked great when the new phone was used for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then it would degrade. Load a new rom on the phone and again it would work fine for 2 to 3 weeks then deteriorate again. I'm always interested in knowing how long the current rom has been installed and how much the GPS has been utilized. The fact that it worked good when new, makes me think the hardware is not the problem. I'm no programmer but I always wondered if the deterioration was the result of some "file" that grew in size as the GPS was utilized. And, as the "file" grew, time/power requirements increased causing the GPS to deteriorate. How could it ever work correctly if it is a hardware issue?
retnuh
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I haven't noticed that before, but I've had the current ROM (Paragon) for a couple weeks, and now I can't get a lock - worked great at the start, after a master clear. Maybe the old Samsung GPS reset app would work here.
What you have proposed is something we should all keep in the back of our minds...

My 1008 build had mediocre (at best) GPS. The I sent it in for repair and when I got it back (and installed Andromeda) the GPS worked so well I was beside myself with joy. The GPS remained fabulous for almost 2 month then, while running Cog 4.1 with Adam's GPS fix (and still working great--I got 10 sats while sitting on my toilet!), nirvana ended. I'm lucky to get 4 sats and locking is painfully slow.
It's been this way for about a week. I'm going to complain to Samsung and see if I can send it back for repair again.

Soccer_Dad said:
I haven't noticed that before, but I've had the current ROM (Paragon) for a couple weeks, and now I can't get a lock - worked great at the start, after a master clear. Maybe the old Samsung GPS reset app would work here.
What you have proposed is something we should all keep in the back of our minds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't paragon a kernel?

I'm not as lucky as you with Andromeda 1.2. I live in the SF bay area and can barely get a lock. Any suggestions?

Compass, no issue.

I remember somewhere somebody reported issue with compass in our Relay.
Now I found that it is somehow related with other sensors and/or modules.
So if your compass not working properly turn off wifi, data transfer and GPS and try.
Regards
Mac

Makes no difference for me. Everything on or everything off, the compass is still hopelessly miscalibrated after a reboot. Then a calibration cycle gets it approximately right until the next one.

for me also no difference, however i try, google maps with gps is usually going sometimes ok. havent got the clue behind yet

Jax184 said:
Makes no difference for me. Everything on or everything off, the compass is still hopelessly miscalibrated after a reboot. Then a calibration cycle gets it approximately right until the next one.
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I'm in the same boat- if I'm driving, it will correct when it uses the GPS, but standing still, it will be off. I think the issues started after updating one of the stock roms. I think the original stock rom was just fine.
I think Nardholio posted something about going back to stock, ripping the battery out with a solid GPS lock and then upgrading.

gee one said:
I'm in the same boat- if I'm driving, it will correct when it uses the GPS, but standing still, it will be off. I think the issues started after updating one of the stock roms. I think the original stock rom was just fine.
I think Nardholio posted something about going back to stock, ripping the battery out with a solid GPS lock and then upgrading.
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That's only needed if your GPS is totally inoperable.

So the Relay 4G has horrible GPS? Seems to be an ongoing theme with Samsung phones.

Nah, the GPS works fine. It's the compass that's broken.
During the development of our CM rom, it was discovered that the GPS sometimes wouldn't work at all after flashing a custom ROM. This was because the stock ROM had put the GPS to sleep in a way which the custom ROM couldn't wake it from. That's why the battery pull technique was developed. It ensured the GPS was active when you installed the custom ROM.
I don't know if it's still needed or not. I don't think it is. If it is, it would only help you if your GPS doesn't work at all after flashing a custom ROM. If it's intermittent or has poor signal or something, you've got other problems.

Regarding GPS, if I understand correctly, Relay 4G uses both GPS and GLONASS signal, so is the GPS fix considerably quicker than in devices without GLONASS and is the satellite coverage better as well?
I'm particularly interested if there is a noticeable difference in this regard between Samsung Captivate Glide's GPS and Relay 4G's GPS+GLONASS.

Jax184 said:
Nah, the GPS works fine. It's the compass that's broken.
During the development of our CM rom, it was discovered that the GPS sometimes wouldn't work at all after flashing a custom ROM. This was because the stock ROM had put the GPS to sleep in a way which the custom ROM couldn't wake it from. That's why the battery pull technique was developed. It ensured the GPS was active when you installed the custom ROM.
I don't know if it's still needed or not. I don't think it is. If it is, it would only help you if your GPS doesn't work at all after flashing a custom ROM. If it's intermittent or has poor signal or something, you've got other problems.
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I...don't know the difference between the GPS and the compass. I thought people were using the terms interchangeably, but apparently not.
Solkan said:
Regarding GPS, if I understand correctly, Relay 4G uses both GPS and GLONASS signal, so is the GPS fix considerably quicker than in devices without GLONASS and is the satellite coverage better as well?
I'm particularly interested if there is a noticeable difference in this regard between Samsung Captivate Glide's GPS and Relay 4G's GPS+GLONASS.
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Click to collapse
Okay...this is very interesting. Differences between GPS and compass aside, this still seems like good news. At least to me, cause GPS is very important to me, and its my understanding that the Captivate Glide's GPS is very hinky. Seems like if you stick with stock you'll be fine. Now, bluetooth, I have no idea how the bluetooth is on the Relay (stock or custom ROM), but at least the GPS is good and even better with this GLONASS.

The compass is a standalone chip that detects the earths magnetic fields and tells the device which way it's oriented. But Samsung screwed something up, and every time the phone boots it's way out of calibration. You can fix it by taking it through a quick calibration cycle, and then all's right with it until the next reboot.
The compass and the GPS work together for things like maps. With the compass miscalibrated, the indicator on the map will often show that you're facing a compass direction other than what you really are. And it'll sometimes act as though you're walking backwards when moving at low speeds. But the actual GPS position and tracking are correct, it just has no idea what way you're facing. Again, a compass calibration will fix this.

Jax184 said:
The compass is a standalone chip that detects the earths magnetic fields and tells the device which way it's oriented. But Samsung screwed something up, and every time the phone boots it's way out of calibration. You can fix it by taking it through a quick calibration cycle, and then all's right with it until the next reboot.
The compass and the GPS work together for things like maps. With the compass miscalibrated, the indicator on the map will often show that you're facing a compass direction other than what you really are. And it'll sometimes act as though you're walking backwards when moving at low speeds. But the actual GPS position and tracking are correct, it just has no idea what way you're facing. Again, a compass calibration will fix this.
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Okay...I've actually been experiencing that lately with my Epic 4G on Cyanogenmod, but I blame that more on the most recent update of Google Maps which changed the entire interface than I do the ROM (I'm on the most recent stable release and before the Google Maps update GPS worked perfectly). But that's still something I'll save for that board. But what you described is exactly what I've been experiencing, the Navigation seems to work, but it takes a while for the indicator (the red arrow) to face the right direction. Since I use it to drive around my own town its not that big a deal, but if I ever go out of town, yeah it could be an issue.
Someone on one of the Relay 4G boards here opened up his Relay 4G and showed exactly where the metal components are, and how with some tweaking it may correct it without calibration...but with my luck I'd break the thing permanently.
I do wonder why the Relay 4G is like this...my only guess is that Samsung was trying to rush it out and didn't have the time to properly test it? I know it was supposed to be called something else (Blaze Q or something). But the funny thing is, even with this "error" (which from the sounds of it is easily remedied), it still seems like more of the spiritual successor to the Epic 4G than I originally thought the Captivate Glide was, or at least an Epic 4G if it was GSM. 5 rows of keys, same shape...I just don't know why this phone isn't more successful than it is. At least you can get it on eBay, new, for about $200-$300. I haven't been inside a T-mobile store in years so I don't know if they regularly keep them in stock or not. But its still available. That Captivate Glide is still available for less than $200, but with its issues with GPS and bluetooth...I don't know, seriously thinking about this phone now.
Anyway, thanks for the response. And by the way, how is the bluetooth on this phone?
EDIT: Herp derp, it was YOU who opened up their Relay 4G! My apologies, sometimes these boards blur together.

Bluetooth seems okay, but I only have one bluetooth device, so I'm hardly an expert.
The guys working on our CM ROM are trying to improve performance when both wifi and bluetooth are in use at the same time. Since they're both 2.4 GHz, they tend to step on each others toes if both are on at once.
You should try a compass calibration on the Epic to see if that helps with the pointer. First step away from large metal and electrical objects, so you're in a fairly clean magnetic environment. Then open up an app that uses the compass, like Metal Sniffer. Then, while keeping the screen on, slowly and smoothly rotate the phone 3 times around each axis. End over end 3 times, then side to side 3 times, then around and around 3 times.
At the end of it, the pointer should now point north.
On the Relay, the values of the magnetic field strength are all totally out of whack before you do this, and they suddenly drop to more rational levels after the calibration.

Jax184 said:
Bluetooth seems okay, but I only have one bluetooth device, so I'm hardly an expert.
The guys working on our CM ROM are trying to improve performance when both wifi and bluetooth are in use at the same time. Since they're both 2.4 GHz, they tend to step on each others toes if both are on at once.
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Ah okay. Though I can't remember the last time I tried to use both at once. Also, since the Relay 4G actually has a stock JB rom, what benefits would there be getting CM instead? I'm only on CM for the Epic 4G because Samsung/Sprint stopped updating it with Gingerbread.
You should try a compass calibration on the Epic to see if that helps with the pointer. First step away from large metal and electrical objects, so you're in a fairly clean magnetic environment. Then open up an app that uses the compass, like Metal Sniffer. Then, while keeping the screen on, slowly and smoothly rotate the phone 3 times around each axis. End over end 3 times, then side to side 3 times, then around and around 3 times.
At the end of it, the pointer should now point north.
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Click to collapse
Thanks. The folks on the other board said it was an issue with the updated Google Maps app as opposed to the GPS/compass itself, and suggested a downgrade. I may try both solutions, though to be honest with you there's a huge learning curve with the most recent update to Google Maps (for instance still can't figure out how to get it to record my current location, which came in handy with the previous versions if I ever came across a place or store I wanted to visit again).
On the Relay, the values of the magnetic field strength are all totally out of whack before you do this, and they suddenly drop to more rational levels after the calibration.
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Speaking of that calibration trick, where is it described in detail around here?

EpicMikeNC said:
Speaking of that calibration trick, where is it described in detail around here?
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That was it! :laugh:
The CM ROM is faster and trimmer than the stock ROM, and fixes a couple of bugs and annoyances. No touchwiz interface, no t-mobile tethering lockout, no samsung bloatware. And while it does have a few bugs of its own, it's under active development by several people, so it's rapidly improving.

Jax184 said:
That was it! :laugh:
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Oh. lol Ok, thought what you described for the Epic 4G was different, not the same. Gotcha. :good:
The CM ROM is faster and trimmer than the stock ROM, and fixes a couple of bugs and annoyances. No touchwiz interface, no t-mobile tethering lockout, no samsung bloatware. And while it does have a few bugs of its own, it's under active development by several people, so it's rapidly improving.
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Well I know from my experience with the Epic 4G, you can remove the bloatware with Titanium backup and tether via an ap (if you mean hotspot tether). But at least there's options, stock or CM.
Still don't get why this phone isn't more successful than it is.

Compass is wacky on mine
On my Relay, the compass is off in bizarro land, and has been since I bought it. Stock ICS/unrooted, or stock JB/unrooted, same problem. It doesn't seem to hold calibration at all, and I can even notice that it very slowly spins as I drive. On those times I've tried Google Maps 7 (yuuuuck!), I've noticed that it cheerfully ignores your GPS heading and points the arrow to your alleged compass heading. Between the large amount of change-for-change's-sake UI stupidity, the compass problem, and its general crashiness, I've ditched the update and gone back to the original version.
I've just rooted it yesterday, but I seriously doubt that rooting would make any difference with the compass.

Bobby Tables said:
On my Relay, the compass is off in bizarro land, and has been since I bought it. Stock ICS/unrooted, or stock JB/unrooted, same problem. It doesn't seem to hold calibration at all, and I can even notice that it very slowly spins as I drive. On those times I've tried Google Maps 7 (yuuuuck!), I've noticed that it cheerfully ignores your GPS heading and points the arrow to your alleged compass heading. Between the large amount of change-for-change's-sake UI stupidity, the compass problem, and its general crashiness, I've ditched the update and gone back to the original version.
I've just rooted it yesterday, but I seriously doubt that rooting would make any difference with the compass.
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How did you root by the way? One-Click?
But yeah, based on what you just said, I'm convinced its the update, not the compass. I don't understand how Google went backwards in regards to this so-called update to Google maps. But the Metal Sniffer solution seems to work, 9 times out of 10 anyway.
Also, I keep looking and looking, but unless I'm still missing it, didn't the update take away to ability to save your current location?

The bootloader is unlocked, there is no reason to run a rooting script. Just flash CWM with Odin/Heimdall and then supersu

I'm having a very similar experience here on CM 10.2 nightlies. Calibrating the compass doesn't always work. When it does it doesn't always stick. And when it sticks, it will be very jumpy, skipping from one direction to the other at random. This prevents compass mode in Google Maps, so it's annoying but not such a huge deal.