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Wats up with gsm 850 ? Is it like diamond or it is true quad band?
alexor said:
Wats up with gsm 850 ? Is it like diamond or it is true quad band?
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It has 850 but will not use the US 3G networks (set for ASIA/EUROPE) unless you get a US version (not out yet). So it's quad without 3G (you do get EDGE though)
so
so its quadband gsm and dual band hsdpa for euro/asia?
I think it does GSM850 but not UMTS850. Is this correct? Now, my question, is UTMS only used for data and GSM is used for voice? My immediate answer to this would be no, UTMS (W-CDMA) is used for both.
Yarr.. is this a hardware thing or a software thing?
Software
briggs81 said:
Yarr.. is this a hardware thing or a software thing?
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Click to collapse
I think Software - I saw a registry edit in the tweak thread. need to go find it again
850 adding 850 GSM is a software tweak, adding the UMTS bands for the US is not (it lacks the hardware)
I really dont think they would have released this without the hardware. My gut tells me the US 3G will see the light of day...
Raspster said:
I really dont think they would have released this without the hardware. My gut tells me the US 3G will see the light of day...
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Click to collapse
I've been praying daily for this since I got my TP on Tuesday... And I'm not a very religious person...
Hello,
I'm curious to know is the 3G HSPA 2100/1700 frequency hardware based or software?
For example can one change the frequency to point say at 850MHz?
I'm currently with Rogers, and their 3G network is not on the same band.
Thanks
Nah, its a hardware restriction. Tmobile did this because 2100-1700 are dedicated 3G pipelines. They device does not have 850 or 1900 wcdma only 21-1700
http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=1763
this is so it can not be used on at&t 3g.
if i remember correctly 1700 is for d/l and 2100 is for u/l
i dont know much about phones....or the various cellphone network types.
But isn't a frequency a frequency? Wouldn't it be the softwares job to interpret the data on the various frequencies?
jrgong420 said:
i dont know much about phones....or the various cellphone network types.
But isn't a frequency a frequency? Wouldn't it be the softwares job to interpret the data on the various frequencies?
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True, software could interprete the singnal, it just wouldn't be as efficient.
The easiest comparison I could make would be video enconding on a PC. You can have your PC encode a video in h.264 it will just take a while. Meanwhile your HD-DVR is doing the same thing in real time. The difference is the dedicated chip in the HD-DVR that only does h.264 encoding.
I have no idea if there's a way to get the raw signal from one of the other radios, let alone if there's enough power in the G1 to interpret it without the chip. I'd guess not on both cases.
benmyers2941 said:
The easiest comparison I could make would be video enconding on a PC. You can have your PC encode a video in h.264 it will just take a while. Meanwhile your HD-DVR is doing the same thing in real time. The difference is the dedicated chip in the HD-DVR that only does h.264 encoding.
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Click to collapse
Nice comparison... but I think it is more like a wireless router. A 802.11b router can't use 802.11g... why not they run on the same frequency? Because it isn't just the frequency you have to look at. G takes a different amount of power than B. Same with the different bands. 2100 take a different amount than 850.
If you really want to see a comparison wiki radio frequencies and you will see why cb radios and those little walkie talkies don't work on all frequencies too. There is a lot more to it than just telling the radio to go up or down a couple numbers.
Nope
Qualcomm 7201 Chipset and Baseband is fully Compatible with 850 / 1700 / 2100 / 1900 Bands
You just have to have additional Component on the Board to have additional Support
Please see the motherboard Diagram its Self Sufficient i think.
hetaldp said:
Nope
Qualcomm 7201 Chipset and Baseband is fully Compatible with 850 / 1700 / 2100 / 1900 Bands
You just have to have additional Component on the Board to have additional Support
Please see the motherboard Diagram its Self Sufficient i think.
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Click to collapse
I thought it was GSM 850 / GSM 900 / GSM 1800 / GSM 1900 WCDMA 1700 / WCDMA 2100
Is GSM 850 the same as WCDMA 850?
But it looks like you answered two questions with that post... someone else was looking for pics of the phones insides. Good job finding those.
Its all hardware based and will not work on at&t 3G. The phone does not have the hardware to pick up 850/1900mhz frequency. Tmobile did this not to screw people over but because they have no need to. The phone was made for T-mobile there is no reason to support at&t bands.
Just like everyone said, it is a hardware thing. As far as I know, since T-Mobile got the short straw and got the 1700MHz band, there really isn't a "universal" phone now that can operate on all GSM and all 3G frequencies worldwide yet. Manufacturers would have to have like 9 total bands supported and with the trend towards smaller and smaller phones, it's something that gets cut early. So the short of it is this: expecting the G1 to work on AT&T's 3G band is a lot like expecting an FM-only radio to pick up AM signals.....or exactly like expecting an American FM radio to pick up all the FM stations in Japan (which uses a wider FM band.)
But keep in mind that the 1700/2100 numbers don't refer to a specific frequency, but a band of frequencies at or around the number. If you've ever used a shortwave radio, you know that they use terms like "the 11-meter band," which is a range of frequencies with a wavelength of around 11m. Luckily, the range of the 2100MHz band that T-Mobile USA uses overlaps the European band enough to make the phone work over there.
Doesn't the tilt do 1700?
neoobs said:
Doesn't the tilt do 1700?
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If I'm not mistaken, the Tilt was released before the 1700MHz band was a reality.
beartard said:
If I'm not mistaken, the Tilt was released before the 1700MHz band was a reality.
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You are correct... I remember reading on AT&T thou that it was 1700... but then again we all know how well the cell phone companies advertise specs LOL
Something Interesting...
I found something that might be of interest... If you install "Any Cut" and create a link for "Phone Info" (Long press on you desktop, then > Shortcut > Any Cut > Activity> Phone Info). Once created, you will have a shortcut on your desktop for "Phone Info". Click the "Phone Info" Shortcut and press the menu key. Then click the menu option "Select radio b..." From here you will have the option to change your radio band:
Set GSM/UMTS band:
Automatic
EURO Band
USA Band
Japan Band
AUS Band
AUS2 Band
This would suggest to me that the radio can be controlled via software. What do the experts think? Do you think we could get 3G working on AT&T's Network?
mistadman said:
I found something that might be of interest... If you install "Any Cut" and create a link for "Phone Info" (Long press on you desktop, then > Shortcut > Any Cut > Activity> Phone Info). Once created, you will have a shortcut on your desktop for "Phone Info". Click the "Phone Info" Shortcut and press the menu key. Then click the menu option "Select radio b..." From here you will have the option to change your radio band:
Set GSM/UMTS band:
Automatic
EURO Band
USA Band
Japan Band
AUS Band
AUS2 Band
This would suggest to me that the radio can be controlled via software. What do the experts think? Do you think we could get 3G working on AT&T's Network?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You try it and tell us if any of them work LOL... I think it all depends on the hardware first... Remember the android is built to be on many phones
:-(
neoobs said:
You try it and tell us if any of them work LOL... I think it all depends on the hardware first... Remember the android is built to be on many phones
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Click to collapse
My phone is locked. I can't use my AT&T SIM. Sorry. But when I switch to different bands, I do loose my signal until I switch back.
I have a friend who builds small electronic devices. If I had a damaged tilt would it be possible to remove the 3G antenna and a few resistors and replace the ones in the G1 to make it work on the ATT 3G bands?
Does anyone know enough about the board construction to know what would need to be replaced?
I did use that activity to change the band to get it to work with my provider here in the United Arab Emirates. The thing is I honestly don't know what they are using, publishing reliable info is not a strong point of the operators around here. I grabbed that of a web-site:
The Middle East operators are using the primary 2.1 GHz band for the UMTS/HSDPA operation. Not too precise eh.
I used the Japan labeled band.(?)
sim unlock GI via 611
I was on the horn with CS anyway and figured it would be worth a try to ask for an unlock code request for my G1, they dont have the magic keygens at the Tmob secret base, they have to request it from the OEM, back in the day they gave them out but after many public keygens they got a bit pickier about who get the keys to the liquor cabnet.
when mine comes Ill get an at&T prepay bump sim and mess about a bit just to prove it wont work, and to everybody else ...CALL 611!! ask them for the unlock code tell um you go back and forth to Europe or Iraq or Pagopago, I may not be necessarry but I always have a bit of fun with the story, it used to be a email system send imei to "[email protected]" and get your code in a few days, the good ole dayz
bhang
mistadman said:
I found something that might be of interest... If you install "Any Cut" and create a link for "Phone Info" (Long press on you desktop, then > Shortcut > Any Cut > Activity> Phone Info). Once created, you will have a shortcut on your desktop for "Phone Info". Click the "Phone Info" Shortcut and press the menu key. Then click the menu option "Select radio b..." From here you will have the option to change your radio band:
Set GSM/UMTS band:
Automatic
EURO Band
USA Band
Japan Band
AUS Band
AUS2 Band
This would suggest to me that the radio can be controlled via software. What do the experts think? Do you think we could get 3G working on AT&T's Network?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Menu is shown as the Chipset Qualcomm 7201 actually supports These Bands, But it Require Radio RF/TS Unit to Actually Push Radio Frequcny via Internal antenna. Seeing the Board Picture it only have 1700 and 2100 RF Units. So even is Chipset is compatible it can not Push the Signal or Received Signal other then it is made for. I think in Future then can alter some Hardware and make it more compatible.
So, I'm wondering if I had a broken tilt with the 850 transmit antenna chip in it if I could have that antenna module removed and put in the G1 would that be all that is needed to work on the ATT 3G network?
Anybody, know if that might work since the chipset seems to support the frequency?
I can't afford to pay more than $175 for my phone. I'm a long time ATT customer and can't/won't change carriers. So, I'm trying to get one off of Craigslist or Ebay for about $250.00 or $275.00.
If anyone knows where I can get one for that price please let me know. If I can get one I'll try the antenna replacement idea.
Hello,
I am a noob at this so please bear with me.
I have a Telus TP2 and I have unlocked it using the software provided by Olipro.
My objective is to switch my network over to Telus' new UMTS network, using one of their sim cards. Right now it is functioning on Telus' CDMA network.
My question is: Do I need to flash a new Radio to accomplish this? My phone still has the 2.05.00 WV radio on it now. I just need to know if I need to go get a WU radio in order to use Telus' new network.
Thanks in advance.
Hedake said:
Hello,
I am a noob at this so please bear with me.
I have a Telus TP2 and I have unlocked it using the software provided by Olipro.
My objective is to switch my network over to Telus' new UMTS network, using one of their sim cards. Right now it is functioning on Telus' CDMA network.
My question is: Do I need to flash a new Radio to accomplish this? My phone still has the 2.05.00 WV radio on it now. I just need to know if I need to go get a WU radio in order to use Telus' new network.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Telus TP2 supports UMTS 2100.
Telus uses UMTS 850/1900 for its 3G network.
In order to get the TP2 running on the UMTS network you'll want to grab a ATT GSM variant from the states and unlock that.
IIRC, Telus is jumping straight to WCDMA/UMTS so it won't be supporting the standard GSM bands. If that's the case, then your Telus TP2 variant won't have anything to lock onto when it is in "GSM Mode."
Ah dang, I guess I didn't really need to unlock the sim on my phone then because it won't work on Telus' UMTS network...
Oh well, if I decide to go back to Rogers I believe that the Telus TP2 will operate on their GSM network.
Follow up question:
Do I need to get an unlocked Radio to use the Telus TP2 on Rogers' GSM network or will the 2.05.00WV one that I have on now work?
yes, you'll need a WU unlocked radio in order to access GSM radios in the states, and canada as well, i believe.
You can find the link here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=578659
Hedake said:
Ah dang, I guess I didn't really need to unlock the sim on my phone then because it won't work on Telus' UMTS network...
Oh well, if I decide to go back to Rogers I believe that the Telus TP2 will operate on their GSM network.
Follow up question:
Do I need to get an unlocked Radio to use the Telus TP2 on Rogers' GSM network or will the 2.05.00WV one that I have on now work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on the specific radio firmware in the device.
If it is like the Sprint TP2, then yes, you would need a separate radio. Sprint does not SIM lock its TP2, however it ships them with crippled radio software which has the 850/1900 GSM bands disabled so that it won't work with US GSM carriers (it simply doesn't see the network).
If it is like the Verizon TP2, then no, you would not need a separate radio, though you would need a SIM unlock. Verizon doesn't cripple the radio software in its TP2. It simply uses a traditional SIM lock.
I've heard that the Telus TP2 is like the Sprint model, but I've not seen one to verify.
If you're not sure, then you can always flash the unlocked radio (assuming you're using the unlock software from Oli) and it'll work.
Hey thanks for the information gamescan. I scoured the Telus Mobility website and tried to find information about their new netowork but they just call it HSPA+. No where does it mention that it is UMTS or GSM. Oh well, now I know a little bit more about cell phone tech.
I don't even know if theres any real benefit to being on Telus' UMTS network compared to their CDMA. Im sure there has to be something....
Hedake said:
Hey thanks for the information gamescan. I scoured the Telus Mobility website and tried to find information about their new netowork but they just call it HSPA+. No where does it mention that it is UMTS or GSM. Oh well, now I know a little bit more about cell phone tech.
I don't even know if theres any real benefit to being on Telus' UMTS network compared to their CDMA. Im sure there has to be something....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick 3G primer:
W-CDMA and UMTS are the name of the tech. It's also referred to as FOMA in Japan. Phones generally standardize on the UMTS name, so when you're poking around in your phone and see UMTS followed by a number, that indicates the frequency band that the phone will run on in 3G.
HSDPA, HSUPA and HSPA+ are all further revisions to UMTS. They allow for greater speeds on existing infrastructure so long as both the handset and tower support it.
A rough CDMA equivalent would be EVDO and EVDO Rev A. Older UMTS handsets will still work on a HSPA+ network, they just won't run on HSPA+ speeds the same as a EVDO handset will work on a Rev A network, just not at Rev A speeds.
UMTS is often referred to as "GSM" though that is a misnomer. GSM and UMTS are two separate (but concurrent) technologies. While they often exist together on networks that have been GSM and upgraded, they do not have to exist together. You can have a situation where a UMTS network exists but an underlying GSM "2G" network does not.
The most well known example of this is in Japan where GSM never rolled out, but in your case, where Telus is adding UMTS to an existing CDMA2000 network, is similar.
From a user perspective, there is no real reason for you to want to run UMTS over EVDO on Telus. Telus should have greater EVDO coverage so that's what you'll be wanting.
If you really want to run on the Telus UMTS network, look for an ATT branded Touch Pro 2 and get that. Of course that will not run on the Telus EVDO network.
Thank you again sir! I appreciate the replies.
Just curious about one thing, if Telus' new UMTS network isn't really any better than their CDMA right now, then why do they promote it as such a big deal?
I think I read that in order to evolve into the next big cellphone phase (forget the name) that this UTMS network was necessary but why would anyone care what network they are on as of today?
Also, do you know why CDMA is not the "way of the future" so to speak? I know Telus spent millions upgrading and putting in new towers all over...maybe I should go google this stuff lol.
The future is LTE (which is neither CDMA or GSM).
As for why Telus made a hop to UMTS before going to LTE, I couldn't tell you.
All I can envision is that Telus is looking to be more compatible globally with Europe and Japanese business travellers. It may also be a strategic decision to open up compatibility with more possible phone manufacturers.
Putting 1XRTT CDMA + EVDO + UMTS into a phone is an engineering pain. Adding in multiple frequency support (and properly tuning the antenna) is also a pain. HTC aside, many manufacturers are supporting GSM/UMTS because that's what carriers have. The biggest CDMA markets are the US, Canda and South Korea. While it is a lot of people, it also requires another phone variant.
By overlaying a UMTS network, Telus can suddenly work with any handset that supports UMTS 850/1900. That's what's used by ATT in the US. UMTS 850 is also popular in Australia while Europe and Japan use UMTS 2100. T-Mobile US uses UMTS 1700. Many UMTS phones offer tri-band UMTS 850/1900/2100 support. With one of those phones you can run on just about any current UMTS network in the world (excepting T-Mobile US).
Again, this is just conjecture on my part, but they are possible reasons.
Hi all
I just got this phone for use in Italy, and am now waiting for my unlock code to come through.
Meanwhile, and as the main question, I wonder if it ever will be a way to turn on the WCDMA 900 band that we use here (along with WCDMA 2100), since it's not supported out of the box, being an American phone.
I would like it to be a 900/2100 phone, instead of 850/1900/2100.
I'm sure the phone supports it (being much newer than my current Motorola Defy that's able to do it), it just has to be unlocked somewhere.
Any info is appreciated!
Thank you
thenext1 said:
Hi all
I just got this phone for use in Italy, and am now waiting for my unlock code to come through.
Meanwhile, and as the main question, I wonder if it ever will be a way to turn on the WCDMA 900 band that we use here (along with WCDMA 2100), since it's not supported out of the box, being an American phone.
I would like it to be a 900/2100 phone, instead of 850/1900/2100.
I'm sure the phone supports it (being much newer than my current Motorola Defy that's able to do it), it just has to be unlocked somewhere.
Any info is appreciated!
Thank you
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but that is not possible as the hardware does not have those radio antennas in the phone. This is ONLY a GSM/HSDPA+ phone not a WCDMA phone. There is not a way to change that since it is a hardware antenna change.
jimbridgman said:
Sorry, but that is not possible as the hardware does not have those radio antennas in the phone. This is ONLY a GSM/HSDPA+ phone not a WCDMA phone. There is not a way to change that since it is a hardware antenna change.
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Click to collapse
As far as i know (pretty sure on this), all 3/3.5G is WCDMA. HSDPA(+) is WCDMA. WCDMA is just the name of a RF modulation, and 850, 900, 1900, 2100 are just the bands the protocol can run on.
In fact my question could just be translated to: as these settings are stored in the baseband rom, we need to flash an alternative baseband to enable those, or discover where they are set.
I guess a motorola phone similar enough to the A2 (i.e. same.hardware) should suffice as a "donor" phone for the baseband rom. May be an ipothetic european A2 of the future.
Has a phone like this been found yet?
thenext1 said:
As far as i know (pretty sure on this), all 3/3.5G is WCDMA. HSDPA(+) is WCDMA. WCDMA is just the name of a RF modulation, and 850, 900, 1900, 2100 are just the bands the protocol can run on.
In fact my question could just be translated to: as these settings are stored in the baseband rom, we need to flash an alternative baseband to enable those, or discover where they are set.
I guess a motorola phone similar enough to the A2 (i.e. same.hardware) should suffice as a "donor" phone for the baseband rom. May be an ipothetic european A2 of the future.
Has a phone like this been found yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware on A2 does not support this, the antenna is not setup to capture these frequencies. Just because the baseband is in the rom does not mean that you can change the hardware.... Yes technically all 3G boils down to WCDMA or CDMA technology, but there are major operating differences between even the different spectrum in them. The issue you have is that the phone is not going to be able to capture those on the hardware layer. It is similar to trying to get am radio signals on an FM radio, with an FM antenna.
Well I hope you are wrong
I think (hope) motorola has put an universal antenna on the atrix 2, it'd be anti economic to do otherwise.
BTW, 850, 900 the antenna differences surely are minimal.
It sounds more like as a RF chipset limitation on the simultaneous bands used... like three of em. "Tri-band umts".
As with the good old gsm phones marketed as tri- or quad-band, like my v525, the actual bands used were depending on where you lived.
All of this, i hope...
Did you buy an MB865, or an ME865, as they have two totally different antennas. mostly we discuss the MB865 in here.... and I can tell you that there is no way to change the MB865, because it setup that way on purpose, and locked to AT&T's signals via the antenna and wireless chipset, by Motorola. The ME865 might be a better choice I think there are two versions of that one, one is the Chinese version and the other is more international.
ME865 it's for asia only. Motorola phones found over here follow the MB nomenclature. I have got an at&t MB865.
Anyway if a €300 phone (defy) can do that, I don't see why motorola would have chosen to spare on a $ .5 part on a €550 phone (euro price tag estimation), and have to redo a whole new pcb layout if the MB865 ever comes to the old world. Even taking into account the at&t exclusivity. It's anti economic for them.
Btw I don't want to be right at all cost, please don't misunderstand my words. ;-)
Also if you look at pdadb you will find two.models, mb865 and mb865a.
I don't know if they're both real or not, but they are identical specs-wise the only exception being the lack of wcdma900 band on the "a" version.
If such version actually comes to market, i guess a baseband transplantation could be done...
Forgive me if this is a trivial question, but since European carriers such as Vodafone and O2 Germany also have the dual-core version of the HOX, is it possible to flash a european radio and use the European LTE frequencies? Or are the frequency bands hard-coded into the chipset?
It was my assumption that the US and European LTE variants used the same hardware components, but were just set up to use different LTE bands.
Frequency support is set in hardware.
redpoint73 said:
Frequency support is set in hardware.
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Thinking more about this, I'm still not convinced it's impossible to flash a european radio on the HOX to swap LTE bands. Unless the physical antenna is different, I'd think that it's a possibility.
With my other phone, the Samsung Skyrocket, we can flash T-Mobile radios to gain support for the 1700 AWS band. The chipset supports it, and it just took a radio flash to activate it. AFAIK, you can't use 1700 and LTE though - that or a radio with support for both doesn't exist.
I guess it depends on what chipset the German One XL uses..but I'll wait to see if someone has luck before I risk my own One X.
The hardware is different, as I already said.
The Skyrocket (and a few other AT&T phones, like the Galaxy Note) included the AWS band in hardware (likely due to the now defunct merger with T-Mobile that was going on at the time). The hardware was there, but AWS was simply not enabled in software. Hacks to make AWS work on these phones just enabled the software side for what is already supported in hardware. Without the hardware already being there, no amount of radio flashing will create support for frequencies not already there.
Its possible that some bands are "hidden" in the same way that AWS was for the Skyrocket. Lots of folks here on T-Mobile are hoping the same AWS support is possible on our phone. But if the hardware is not already there (such as for different LTE bands, as you are asking for), you can't make it happen by flashing radios. In the case of AWS, AT&T had a reason for including support (T-Mobile merger). They don't have a reason for including support for LTE bands willy-nilly, just for the sake of doing so, without any tangible (monetary) reason.