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Summary: Honeycomb UI great but buggy
Xoom hardware and build quality feel excellent but the screen isn't what it should be (iPad is better)
Xoom vs iPad vs Gtab ... FIGHT! (The Gtab lost... big time)
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So I left work early with a couple of co-workers to scout out the Xoom. We are all work in technology so we have a pretty good idea of what we want, but we all have different perspectives.
I am the lead Internet Infrastructure Enterprise Engineer for Continental/United Airlines and I own the G-tablet, running VEGAn 1.0.0 beta 5.1.1 and the original Droid 1 running Ultimate Droid 3.0.1 (Gingerbread).
Nick, the iPad/iPhone 4 owner with us is a lead Systems Enterprise Engineer who's focus is Enterprise Active Directory with oversight of the Systems Engineering approval process.
Cory was third member of our scouting party was a Systems Project Engineer whose focus is on consolidation of physical server chassis into Virtual Servers. He currently owns a Droid X, switching to Android from the iPhone 3GS. He and I were looking to potentially purchase the Xoom.
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Our collective impressions:
Positives:
-The Honeycomb interface is more efficient than the iPads adaption of the iPhone UI.
-Xoom hardware felt very solid and reassuring to hold, much better feeling in the hands than a Gtab. It made my Gtab feel plastic-y and bulky.
-You could certainly tell there was a Tegra 2 behind the scenes at work.
-A few of the built in, tablet optimized apps, were refreshing to see on an Android device.
Negatives:
-Screen quality lacked something to be desired, specifically for an $800 device. While it was usable, the nearly year old iPad still had a superior display.
-There is still some work to be done on the software side. The built in browser did not do well at all with large images in websites. ESPN home page was very jumpy and really choked up when zooming in on images, Where as the iPad and my Gtab running Dolphin were relatively smooth.
-The Market is currently lacking many tablet optimized applications, as we all know too well.
-We couldn't determine the sound quality because of an apparent bug. Either the device as 100% volume and very distorted or the sound was off. Changing the volume up or down made no change until you had gone all the way down and the sound turned off.
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From an enterprise support perspective, Honeycomb still has a ways to go before we could deploy Android tablets as a supported enterprise class device. Much for the same reasons that we do not deploy iPads. I hope that they address enterprise class authentication with user control so we can look at deploying these as enterprise devices. A small side note, Continental has both iOS and Android applications for customers to use but we also have in house iPad applications for ticket agents to use in assisting customers. The application is supported on the enterprise but the iPads themselves are treated like a dumb terminal and are not an endpoint on our network.
From a user/consumer perspective, the device certainly has potential but I feel that the price tag combined with the lack of application support and general software polish make this a niche product for uber geeks at best.
Cory did not end up walking out of Best Buy with the Xoom after all. Instead he decided to keep waiting patiently for a tablet that is more refined with a higher quality screen at that price point or to see what software updates may bring in conjunction with a price drop.
I personally will be hanging on to my Gtab for the time being, patiently waiting for a Honeycomb ROM (I'll certainly be donating to the devs who bring it to us)! I would like to see what the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 and the LG tablet bring and/or a sub $500 Xoom option before making the switch.
Edit: Steve Jobs had already informed Nick that he will be purchasing an iPad2... and Nick does the bidding of Steve for he is an iSheep under the watch and care.
bmangold said:
From a user/consumer perspective, the device certainly has potential but I feel that the price tag combined with the lack of application support and general software polish make this a niche product for uber geeks at best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember that the Tegra 3 will be out second half of this year which will be the equivalent of a Quad Core chip. I "personally" was happy enough with my G-Tab (which replaced my iPad) to recently buy a second one. I think this will tide me over until Thanksgiving when you can expect Android 4.0 on a Tegra 3 to truly wipe the floor
Thanks! Good stuff....
EwanG said:
Remember that the Tegra 3 will be out second half of this year which will be the equivalent of a Quad Core chip. I "personally" was happy enough with my G-Tab (which replaced my iPad) to recently buy a second one. I think this will tide me over until Thanksgiving when you can expect Android 4.0 on a Tegra 3 to truly wipe the floor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't wait for Tegra 3 plus Android 3.1. I've been saying that Android 3.1 could be the beginning of the end for Windows in the consumer space. When people have a phone powerful enough to replace their Windows machines, that has a UI that scales from phone form factor up to tablet/netbook scale... not many people are going to care about buying a new computer.
I'm too much of a PC gamer to ditch Windows currently, but if Android tablet game development takes off... watch out.
I noticed when it came out that the Atrix was banking on its 4G instead of its docking solution- and for good reason. The "laptop" was highly expensive and little more than a dock, and we've seen similar products come out in the form of chromebooks in the last year.
My initial issue with the Atrix was that it docked behind the screen. I suppose it seemed more intuitive to me than the committee that designed it, but using one's smartphone as the laptop touchpad seemed more intuitive than unlikely. Undoubtedly this was due to the "laptop"s designed use without the phone- but realistically, when would you have one but not the other.
Then the Asus Transformer caught my attention what with it's usb out, stellar battery (with dock) and shiniest version of android (for the time) honeycomb. What I'd gathered from reviews was enough to convince me 3.2 wasn't ready. But the concept of docking your tablet to turn it into a full laptop had me thinking.
Thus, it hit me that a device offering a bridge between smartphone, tablet, and laptop could completely dominate the market. I almost expected apple to do it (but they released "the new iPad" instead). I believe this is the logical next step for a market becoming flooded and (daresay fragmented) with separate, but not inclusive options.
Imagine using your phone waiting at the airport, deciding that with your half hour you want to work on some document, or compose several emails and just plugging it into your ultrabook. The phone charges, syncs all your recent social media profiles, and you get the benefit of a full keyboard. Then, you decide to play back the presentation you were working on- or catch up on your latest TV show, and do so on your detachable tablet (the laptop screen) instead of the in flight movie.
Devices built with docking in mind will simply help bridge the gap between computing hardware, and presenting stations. I bought a GS3 this week, and it *should* meet my needs for the foreseeable future. If not, I'm keeping my head to the ground on the tablet sphere, and hoping this level of integration becomes a reality sooner rather than later...
Hi everyone,
I am new here, I hope I get the xda-dev etiquette right, if not please tell me.
I am thinking about getting a TF700T as a replacement for my current (really old) notebook [I do normal computing on a desktop]. I will briefly describe what I had in mind and would be grateful for any comments on that. Please note that I am new to the whole Android thing, but that I am an experienced unix hacker, so I hope to learn the stuff quickly.
Why dualboot?
- it will replace a laptop
- for most things android will be the right thing, but in certain situations I want a full unix operating system
Which Android?
- I want a mod that has minimal amount of non-free software and good performance
- I don't mind if everything doesn't work perfectly right away and I don't mind twaeking around, but it should work somehow in the end
- I want encryption (is supposedly available in stock ICS already)
- I don't need any Google-Apps, I plan to use f-droid for applications
=> I thought about CM9 or CM10
Which second OS?
- Obviously GNU/Linux
- frequent updates and bleeding edge software
- no gimmicks, no useless stuff
=> Debian SID ARM?
What are your general thoughts on this?
Has anyone tried dual booting the TF700(t) yet? I read sth about an Ubuntu-dualboot on the TF300...
What are your thoughts on my choice of mod? Is it the right thing for my usecase?
What are your thoughts on my choice of Linux distribution? Did any of you see a native Debian ARM on a recent tablet?
Is there a recommended reading list for people who want to dive into this whole thing and not just follow step-by-step instructions to unlock/root/reflash their device? Like information about general boot-up process, partitioning etc
Thank you for your help!
h?2 said:
Hi everyone,
I am new here, I hope I get the xda-dev etiquette right, if not please tell me.
I am thinking about getting a TF700T as a replacement for my current (really old) notebook [I do normal computing on a desktop]. I will briefly describe what I had in mind and would be grateful for any comments on that. Please note that I am new to the whole Android thing, but that I am an experienced unix hacker, so I hope to learn the stuff quickly.
Why dualboot?
- it will replace a laptop
- for most things android will be the right thing, but in certain situations I want a full unix operating system
Which Android?
- I want a mod that has minimal amount of non-free software and good performance
- I don't mind if everything doesn't work perfectly right away and I don't mind twaeking around, but it should work somehow in the end
- I want encryption (is supposedly available in stock ICS already)
- I don't need any Google-Apps, I plan to use f-droid for applications
=> I thought about CM9 or CM10
Right now, we dont have an unlocked bootloader and as such we dont have roms. But when we do get them, CM9/10 would be an excelent choice since they're fully open source and google apps are optional. Pretty much any rom you find will support encryption since its a core feature of ICS.
Which second OS?
- Obviously GNU/Linux
- frequent updates and bleeding edge software
- no gimmicks, no useless stuff
=> Debian SID ARM?
Again, because we lack an unlocked bootloader, you cant run native linux yet. The closest we can get is a chroot environment, but its not flawless. Namely, Android has no native X server support, so if you wanted to run X applications the only way to do so would be through VNC which is kinda slow. Fast enough for text and menu heavy stuff, but dont even think of video or gaming.
Looking at the OG Transformer and the Transformer Prime as precedent though, I'd be surprised if we didnt get native linux at some point. Probably some flavor of Ubuntu, but if that runs I figure it wouldn't be that difficult to get Debian running.
What are your general thoughts on this?
Has anyone tried dual booting the TF700(t) yet? I read sth about an Ubuntu-dualboot on the TF300...
I'm actually planning on doing the same thing, sans no google apps. My old laptop is kinda heavy, so I relegated it to desktop duty and used an HP Touchpad for a while in its place. It worked decently, and I figure the TF700 will do a much better job from form factor alone.
The version of Linux on the TF300 or other Transformers wont work on the TF700 as the hardware is slightly different.
What are your thoughts on my choice of mod? Is it the right thing for my usecase?
Depends entirely on what you want to use your tablet for.
What are your thoughts on my choice of Linux distribution? Did any of you see a native Debian ARM on a recent tablet?
The Motorola Xoom and HP Touchpad both have nice looking debian ports. You're probably looking for hardware a little more recent though, I'm not really sure what your options are. Debian is a nice distribution with pretty good arm support, you cant really go wrong with it.
Is there a recommended reading list for people who want to dive into this whole thing and not just follow step-by-step instructions to unlock/root/reflash their device? Like information about general boot-up process, partitioning etc
I don't have an answer here... I'd actually like to know this myself!
Thank you for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I could answer, is in bold.
Jotokun said:
What I could answer, is in bold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was an extensive and quality answer. Nothing more to add, except that the OP is doing fine. Don't worry too much about etiquette; as long as the question posed is sincere, the harshest that could happen is your post being moved to another forum.
We don't bite (at least, not that hard).
Welcome!
Jotokun said:
What I could answer, is in bold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the complete answer! I wasn't aware that the bootloader is still locked, while itsunlocked on the other transformers... Have there been any announcements or rumors from ASUS on if/when the unlock tool will arrive for the Infinity?
MartyHulskemper said:
We don't bite (at least, not that hard).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know
So no further reading hints? Maybe I should ask this one again in the general Android forums?
h?2 said:
Thank you very much for the complete answer! I wasn't aware that the bootloader is still locked, while itsunlocked on the other transformers... Have there been any announcements or rumors from ASUS on if/when the unlock tool will arrive for the Infinity?
Good to know
So no further reading hints? Maybe I should ask this one again in the general Android forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not yet, but the other Transformer devices got theirs about a month after launch, so we'll probably see one around mid to late August.
Please don't get a tablet to replace a notebook. If you must do so, please get an ipad instead so that when you come back to ***** about how your tablet doesn't feel like a laptop, it will be the iFans' problem not ours.
goodintentions said:
Please don't get a tablet to replace a notebook. If you must do so, please get an ipad instead so that when you come back to ***** about how your tablet doesn't feel like a laptop, it will be the iFans' problem not ours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its called realistic expectations. For lightweight tasks it should be just fine. Obviously you're not going to compile code, edit video or play Crysis on it. For web browsing and lightweight office documents, it'll be fine. You also missed the part where he said he wanted to dual-boot which would indeed make it more of a true laptop functionality wise.
Jotokun said:
Its called realistic expectations. For lightweight tasks it should be just fine. Obviously you're not going to compile code, edit video or play Crysis on it. For web browsing and lightweight office documents, it'll be fine. You also missed the part where he said he wanted to dual-boot which would indeed make it more of a true laptop functionality wise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with dual boot, at best it will feel like a netbook. Ever since the transformer first came out, I've seen dozens of people whine about how their transformer didn't feel like a laptop. Heck, I saw this even when the ipad was the only tablet in town. New ipad users would whine and whine and whine that the ipad didn't feel like a laptop. They bought the tablet with the attitude of using it like a notebook, and then the huge disappointment hits.
Just wait and see the same OP come back a couple months later whining to us how no matter what he tried he couldn't get his infinity to act like a notebook. Like I said, I've seen this before.
as the seconds OS, i'd love Windows 8...or RT
polish_pat said:
as the seconds OS, i'd love Windows 8...or RT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Win8 wont ever run because its made for x86 cpus, but someone might be able to hack WinRT onto it. I'll admit it'll probably be cool if it happens... but the locked down environment would be a bit of a deal killer for me.
goodintentions said:
Even with dual boot, at best it will feel like a netbook. Ever since the transformer first came out, I've seen dozens of people whine about how their transformer didn't feel like a laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
h?2 said:
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to push this, but I am really undecided after your previous comments and after having bought na Android phone that doesn't really make me happy software-wise.
Does anyone have more thoughts on this?
Thanks.
The TF700 running Android is fine for all of these and in my opinion better than netbook running Windows, but it's far less comfortable to do some pro Office stuff on it, although not impossible. I think you'll be fine for these, especially with the FHD screen (I read many pdfs and I like it much better on my Infinity) and a rooted device (ssh, term), offline sync (esp. with Google) is also the best under Android IMHO.
The bootloader can be unlocked now, but you'll have to do some research yourself for the Linux capabilities there.
h?2 said:
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally think its great for those use cases. I am a developer and I use it for remote development all the time via SSH.
I would not buy it if you expect to run Debian or any other Linux distribution on the tablet natively. It is more difficult to get Linux running that it would seem. This is especially true if you want a responsive UI because 2D accel is usually difficult. Without 2D acceleration then the already slow CPU will be bogged down just trying run the display. All that said, it is quite possible that we may get Linux running well on the TF700(I plan to work on this myself at some point) but I wouldn't count on it.
I was in the same boat as you but I actually find I rarely want/need a true GNU Linux set up on my Transformer. Much of what I would have used I wind up doing it via SSH. If you really needed to do it locally you could use a chroot.
dalingrin said:
I would not buy it if you expect to run Debian or any other Linux distribution on the tablet natively. It is more difficult to get Linux running that it would seem. This is especially true if you want a responsive UI because 2D accel is usually difficult. Without 2D acceleration then the already slow CPU will be bogged down just trying run the display. All that said, it is quite possible that we may get Linux running well on the TF700(I plan to work on this myself at some point) but I wouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks like (binary ) drivers for X11 are available from nvidia and on their way into Debian:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=634100
So UI should be responsive with both 2d and 3d accel...
I was in the same boat as you but I actually find I rarely want/need a true GNU Linux set up on my Transformer. Much of what I would have used I wind up doing it via SSH. If you really needed to do it locally you could use a chroot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a device now, and I am not too happy with the software, e.g. there is no proper Free Software email client. K-9 mail is only designed for phones and the tablet version by the same people is proprietary.
I definitely want to persue the native dual boot plan. If you are also interested in this, maybe we can team up?
Other than that I am still waiting for CM builds, although I am unsure if they will actually improve the experience.
The hardware of the tf700t is really great, though, I absolutely love the display, the keyboard is ok, too and battery life is top notch.
It's probably not what you want.
This may look like a rant, but I am writing this more as a cautionary tale so others can avoid making the mistake I did.
I'm the kind of person who obsessively researches everything before buying. When I bought the TF700, I made a very thorough search for features and drawbacks. I was aware that the RAM was not upgradeable, and that was fine by me. I saw the wifi and microSD slot issues the prime is plagued with - wifi coverage being a top priority for me along with battery life, and a safe SD card slot crucial if I was going to have just 32GB of internal storage), and I concluded the Infinity was a safer choice, even if I didn't care for the better screen. I was aware the processor had a different architecture, but linux runs on ARM and so does windows 8. What I was not aware of, because I did not even think it could work like this, is that this not a computer.
I really can't stress this enough. This is not a computer. There's no plain old bios, no freedom to partition your drive as you wish and installing whatever OS you damn well please. After plenty of bad experiences with warranties, I won't risk voiding it to unlock the bootloader (and a two-year warranty at that - the joys of being european), and even if I did, all I've recently read on dual booting gives me the impression of it being awkward and cumbersome to use - no friendly neighbourhood grub configuring, and way more firmware flashing than I'm comfortable with.
If you DON'T want to risk voiding your warranty, expect plenty of headaches trying to get linux running inside android , a non upgradeable linux image, and an unusable graphical interface. What was said about it being slow but okay for menu heavy stuff? It's not. Not, at least, if you plan on using a programming IDE like eclipse, it isn't. I spent the whole day today looking for VNC alternatives and trying to get RDP or X11 Forwarding to work (there is a basic X server android port which works with connectbot, after all), but getting the X server to start from the mounted ubuntu image has proven to be beyond my knowledge.
In short this has proven to be for me just an expensive web browsing toy, definitely more expensive than what I can afford if it's not going to be a true workstation. The worst part? It's a pretty awesome toy at that, and if fnac will let me exchange it, it will be pretty hard for me to part with it. I still love the TF700 for what it is, but I can't afford this and a new computer.
At first this looks like a laptop, quacks like a laptop... but won't really swim or fly. So, if you need more than web browsing, movie watching and document editing, save yourself the trouble and the hurt.
I disagree with the people saying that you would not be happy with the TF700.
It is obviously true that the Infinity is not a laptop. It's not even a "proper" netbook, as most people would assume a netbook has an x86 processor. Saying that it will outright not satisfy someone is illogical, though. Just because h?2 mentioned that he wishes to replace a laptop doesn't mean that (s?)he is immediately not going to be able to accomplish the tasks that he planned to use a laptop for with the TF700.
I had a standard sort of Asus EeePC netbook for a few months and then began playing with Android tablets. I ended up settling on the original Transformer tablet with its keyboard dock. The things I was using the netbook for were immediately taken over by the Transformer, and after having not used my netbook for 4 months, I just gave it to my mother. The tablet was good enough for browsing the web (and with Chrome browsing has gotten significantly better than it had been when I first got the tablet), staying on top of email in almost real-time, music, my video library, Netflix and Hulu, and keeping track of my servers via SSH.
I have settled on some apps that I'll suggest to you for some of the things you are trying to accomplish:
Maildroid - This is the only e-mail client that meets all of my needs - Free
Better Terminal Emulator Pro (BTEP) - This is an amazing terminal client and SSH client... worth every penny!! - $3.99 (USD)
Chrome - Every Android browser had at least one issue that I hate. Chrome has changed that, and I use it exclusively - Free
TeamViewer - This is one of the easiest to use remote GUI clients available, and it works with Linux and Windows - Free for non-commercial use
TeamViewer isn't perfect... it isn't free open-source software, but it gives me fantastic control of my Windows PC without forcing my session to log off when I log in remotely with remote desktop. Remote desktop on Win 7 Ultimate does strange things and does not allow multiple users to log in the same way it does on Windows Server 2008 R2. TeamViewer allows me to take advantage of my tremendously powerful home desktop PC (with a Core i7-3930K) and all its virtual machines when I need to do some real computing.
BTEP is the absolute best terminal and SSH client program that I have found, and I have tested pretty much every one that was available a year ago. It allows you to use the tablet itself as if it is a minimalist GNU/Linux machine, which comes in handy more often that you might think, assuming you are used to the Linux command line. The SSH client is also great, and supports key pair authentication. I IRC from my Linode (a Linux VPS company) VPS, and BTEP allows me to bind the volume and a few other buttons to normal keyboard buttons. I can use the volume buttons to send the key bindings for F1 and F2, which are bound to previous and next window in IRSSI. It is useless for most people, but the fact that they put the thought into supporting that tells you something about their forethought when developing this software. It is one of only a very few apps that I decided were worth spending money on.
With the combination of TeamViewer and BTEP, I have access to all the computing and network resources that I could ever need. I often use TeamViewer if there is a pressing reason to use Firefox on my desktop rather than the tablet's mobile browser. I can also remotely work with LibreOffice if I need to do anything that I don't feel Polaris Office can handle. I don't even have the temptation to bother installing Ubuntu on my tablet because I simply don't need that functionality. I can get everything done that I need using Android and the apps available in the Google Play market.
So, yeah, a tablet is not a laptop, but sometimes a tablet is all you really need. It sounds a lot like h?2 doesn't need much more than a tablet with a nice physical keyboard. Tweaking the tablet to run or dual-boot Debian is something that may not even need to be done, but he can certainly take on that challenge because he might find it fun!
IT Wannabe;32653963Tweaking the tablet to run or dual-boot Debian is something that may not even need to be done said:
Certainly, but don't forget the bit about losing the warranty if you unlock the bootloader. I for one don't like gambling hundreds of euros that way.
You raised an excellent point there: if one needs to do some actual development but doesn't mind a) requiring a second machine always connected and b) requiring to always be online in order to work, then it's okay. That is not my case though. Even if I don't require a great deal of computing power, I do require a true workstation, and the ability to work offline. If those are dealbreakers for the OP, he will indeed be better off avoiding making the mistake I did.
Oh - and from my experience tweaking, much like cooking, stops being fun once you have no other choice but doing it. (Right now, for instance, I'm tearing my hear out getting the wifi to work again after rooting. I guess I'll just reset everything to stock and return it to fnac before my month is due.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, feel free to flame, but I was writing something in another thread about tablets and the following came to mind:
Are tablets worth what we pay for them? Or are they just a marketing 're-deploy'? Allow me to expound:
Literally just before tablets careened onto the current computer scene(I know windows failed to promote tablets years back), there existed Netbooks. What it seems to me is that Netbooks are what the Industry thought we would want, A very portable yet still completely functional computer. As if even the small laptops weren't small enough...anyway. What I think happened is these things weren't cool enough. Maybe not powerful enough either, but that point should be moot because modern hardware can support this, as proven by current tablets.
I bought a Netbook and loved it, BUT I don't do a lot of gaming, just some simple web browsing, skyping, some skript kiddie type hacking. Plus for me the ultra small design was essential due to the nature of my work/constant traveling blah blah. This thing played movies, had the latest support of my favorite *nixes and performed pretty well except for battery life(typically a measly 3-4 hours) and of course gaming. Then came tablets; they look cooler, offer touch screen capabilities which sometimes feel as cumbersome as alt-tabbing, and have much much better battery and gaming performance, with the added benefit of blending nicely with the current "app store eco-structure".
Ahh, finally my point!!!:
A trend I see rising with tablets is the ability to add a keyboard and mouse....really? So what, then you have a laptop again? Or just the ability to go from cool-tech-but-not-too-nerdy tablet guy, to an fully functional device, and back again? I don't get it, other than the obvious shift to more clever marketing and selling us yet another device. On top of that I can use a USB 2.0 anything on my netbook, or be stuck with a proprietary connecter as with the Transform or iPad. Why would we choose this other than to look cool or because it's being shoved down our throats? What I see is a device (tablet) that is less fuctional, less productive, and more money compared to the more practical, just as portable netbook. I just miss the support of my Netbook, which I only paid $200 for....
Any thoughts...like maybe I'm a crazy hippy that needs to go live in a commune?
my points why my a500 is better use then a netbook,.
portability - no one can say its not easier to carry a slim tablet with a integrated keyboard
functionality - being able to do such things as stand in the street looking through the tab with the camera and seeing augmented reality deal, offer, new location without having to open startup, login and hold a massive block of hardware to do the same, and also a whole plethora of other uses such as barcode scanning, video making ,etc etc imaging scanning barcodes to find cheaper prices with a netbook,,,.,..one handed possible? probably not
battery life, my tablet can go 2days on a single charge with medium usage, a netbook would last a few hours,
i can do pretty much anything on my a500 i can do on my laptop.
i can access and use my laptop with screen and sound from anywhere else in the world.....from my a500 tablet (phonemypc)
also most usb devices connect to my a500 i think the only thing my lappy has that my tablet doesnt is a dvd drive, but the one in my lappy is dusty as hell as i download all my movies and move them between devices to play in diff' areas anyway. and then again my laptop has no gps. and only a front camera
if my laptop im writting this message with was a tablet it would probably be a crap one lol
no gps,no touchscreen, no back camera, front camera is weak no accelerometer no hdmi port lol etc etc
Major edit:
I see your point and don't want to convolute my thoughts too much. I just think a lot of the things you mentioned could be implemented, if the money was there.
You have pointed out that I have kind of answered my own questions...
Why tablets, because the phone market was so successfull and it allows for a lot of control on the developers end of the OS, so it's easier to implement the apps, market place as apposed to a traditional PC software sales setup.
r0zj0k3r said:
I think that depends on what you want to do. with my netbook, I literally could do everything I could on my computer because they were the same OS!!! That means, compiling software, video/audio editing, skype with group video , a similar app store could be integrated into a netbook style os (see ubuntu store). The industry just doesn't want to push it, and because it was easier to shift from phones to what amount to "really big phones"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
warus1 said:
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it would be a great way for windows to break away from the pack, but I don't think they want to do that now. They seem to be in the same mode as everyone else, lets follow the market instead of trying really new things.
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop but i am not going to sell that yet incase, but for day to day use i would like to use a tablet more.
i understand that on here we maybe a little more biased to apple, i usually am myself lol
i have always used android on my phones, i currently have a Samsung galaxy s2 using a custom rom, resurrection remix. So i do like android a lot and very comfortable using it.
on the other hand my girlfriend had an ipad 3 already and i do kind of like it a lot and use it a lot when im at hers, i never find any fault with it, it runs extremely smooth giving its lower specs to current new android tablets out. on my phone i must admit i will get the odd app saying it has to close or it couldn’t start and vie had to restart my phone etc.. i have not once seen my girlfriends ipad crash.
This now leaves me unsure about what to get and would like some opinions, my hearts telling me you have to stick with android because its what you know and love.. and your supposed to hate apple!
But my brain is telling me deep down, you know the ipad is going to be better long term with less problems and a much bigger market.
giving that android are having so many issues now with patents, they have lost the right to carry on using flash etc which used to be a big bonus for android users. how many other issues are going to crop up where every time you update your android tablet you will lose some of its function because android have been ordered to take it out because of a patent ruling.
this all kind of worries me a little in terms of the future, will devs start favouring apple before anyone else when it comes to making apps, will at some point they say we aren’t making them at all for android because of all these issues (of course they already make more for apple than they do android now) im just wondering if it will get worse? i know android was certainly catching up but i think that may start to reverse a little soon.
Most of the above comes from what i have either heard people say or what i have read, i dont know 100% of everything above is correct or not. so some advise would be good.
How good / bad is the android market and is the apple store that much better.
will all my current bought apps, and the majority of free ones probably work fine on an android tablet, or would some look stupid stretched, or do they have to be designed especially for tablet use?
I was wanting to be able to transfer files from usenet on my tablet to a media player, I’m guessing from what i have read that will be impossible with an ipad and do-able on an android tablet but still probably nowhere near as easy as from a laptop, this is one main reason i am not going to get rid of my laptop to soon incase it proves a nuisance. If i got an ipad i assume i would have to keep my laptop for this purpose?
is there any reason why the specs of say the ipad are fairly standard compared to some of the newer android tabs and i still hear a lot about the android tabs being sluggish sometimes and the menus not being smooth, if apple can do a dual core 1ghz pad with 1gb of ram and it be soo smooth, how come android tabs which are also 1 and sometimes 2gb have multi core cpu's at 1.2 - 1.6 ghz yet they perform much more sluggish to the ipad?
is it because android is being added into a whole host of different makers to fit their specs, where as the ipad is being made only for apples own operating systems therefore its always going to be smoother as its all been made for the one system rather than for multiple systems?
i am assuming if android also made their own hardware the two would go together much more smoothly, or am i wrong?
From reading the above back it feels like in am heading more towards the ipad, but i would like reasons why i should maybe not choose the ipad.
the tablets i have been looking at are:
Huawei MediaPad 10 (which i have literally only just come across but looks good specs)
Asus transformer pad infinity 32gb (i don’t know how much this is going to cost without the dock, i think i would only need the dock if i was to get rid of my laptop)
Samsung galaxy note 10.1
Ipad 3
Up to now that’s my shortlist, i would be looking at the 32gb versions unless the 64 wasn't a bad price, i am looking to spend about £400 - £500 max, i have seen new ipad 3's 64gb on ebay for £480, not sure how much the others will be, i would need to hold out for the 32gb or 64gb versions of the galaxy note 10.1 if i was to get that, not sure why they have only released a 16gb version and no others.
Thanks for any feedback you give
James
james_lpool said:
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop but i am not going to sell that yet incase, but for day to day use i would like to use a tablet more.
i understand that on here we maybe a little more biased to apple, i usually am myself lol
i have always used android on my phones, i currently have a Samsung galaxy s2 using a custom rom, resurrection remix. So i do like android a lot and very comfortable using it.
on the other hand my girlfriend had an ipad 3 already and i do kind of like it a lot and use it a lot when im at hers, i never find any fault with it, it runs extremely smooth giving its lower specs to current new android tablets out. on my phone i must admit i will get the odd app saying it has to close or it couldn’t start and vie had to restart my phone etc.. i have not once seen my girlfriends ipad crash.
This now leaves me unsure about what to get and would like some opinions, my hearts telling me you have to stick with android because its what you know and love.. and your supposed to hate apple!
But my brain is telling me deep down, you know the ipad is going to be better long term with less problems and a much bigger market.
giving that android are having so many issues now with patents, they have lost the right to carry on using flash etc which used to be a big bonus for android users. how many other issues are going to crop up where every time you update your android tablet you will lose some of its function because android have been ordered to take it out because of a patent ruling.
this all kind of worries me a little in terms of the future, will devs start favouring apple before anyone else when it comes to making apps, will at some point they say we aren’t making them at all for android because of all these issues (of course they already make more for apple than they do android now) im just wondering if it will get worse? i know android was certainly catching up but i think that may start to reverse a little soon.
Most of the above comes from what i have either heard people say or what i have read, i dont know 100% of everything above is correct or not. so some advise would be good.
How good / bad is the android market and is the apple store that much better.
will all my current bought apps, and the majority of free ones probably work fine on an android tablet, or would some look stupid stretched, or do they have to be designed especially for tablet use?
I was wanting to be able to transfer files from usenet on my tablet to a media player, I’m guessing from what i have read that will be impossible with an ipad and do-able on an android tablet but still probably nowhere near as easy as from a laptop, this is one main reason i am not going to get rid of my laptop to soon incase it proves a nuisance. If i got an ipad i assume i would have to keep my laptop for this purpose?
is there any reason why the specs of say the ipad are fairly standard compared to some of the newer android tabs and i still hear a lot about the android tabs being sluggish sometimes and the menus not being smooth, if apple can do a dual core 1ghz pad with 1gb of ram and it be soo smooth, how come android tabs which are also 1 and sometimes 2gb have multi core cpu's at 1.2 - 1.6 ghz yet they perform much more sluggish to the ipad?
is it because android is being added into a whole host of different makers to fit their specs, where as the ipad is being made only for apples own operating systems therefore its always going to be smoother as its all been made for the one system rather than for multiple systems?
i am assuming if android also made their own hardware the two would go together much more smoothly, or am i wrong?
From reading the above back it feels like in am heading more towards the ipad, but i would like reasons why i should maybe not choose the ipad.
the tablets i have been looking at are:
Huawei MediaPad 10 (which i have literally only just come across but looks good specs)
Asus transformer pad infinity 32gb (i don’t know how much this is going to cost without the dock, i think i would only need the dock if i was to get rid of my laptop)
Samsung galaxy note 10.1
Ipad 3
Up to now that’s my shortlist, i would be looking at the 32gb versions unless the 64 wasn't a bad price, i am looking to spend about £400 - £500 max, i have seen new ipad 3's 64gb on ebay for £480, not sure how much the others will be, i would need to hold out for the 32gb or 64gb versions of the galaxy note 10.1 if i was to get that, not sure why they have only released a 16gb version and no others.
Thanks for any feedback you give
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you prefer the ipad then go for that, it's fine asking what people think but they don't have to live with the tablet you get, you do and it sounds like you've made a choice and are hoping people can change your mind.
Regarding not seeing ipad crash, well no one does because when it does crash it won't actually tell you and on startup of an app it shows a picture not the app itself.
This makes it seem to start quicker as user thinks they are seeing the app starts and if app crashes and restarts the user won't usually realise.
Android didn't lose the right to have flash, adobe chose to pull it....but it is still available for uk android users from play store.
You can stream media from an android tablet to other devices using free apps like mediahouse upnp dlna. You can try some apps on your phone to see if they do what you need.
Android appears more sluggish than ios because ios prioritises user input whereas android multitasks fully and so doesn't single out one aspect for more attention although jellybean does try to improve ui interaction to be much smoother.
The ipad will be easy to use and do what you want, you will lose the customisation and lack of restrictions offered by android so you might get bored a bit but it will do the job just fine.
Apps wise both markets are fine but apples is safer if you're worried about malware, both have a large amount of apps to choose from but a lot of devs do release to ios first because it is easier to code for (ie not hundreds of different spec devices to get an app working on, just a few) and has a high number of users who pay well for apps.
As for apps on android tablets, some do have special tablet only versions but most adapt to your tablets resolution so most should look fine especially as more and more phones are released with higher tablet like resolutions and as these resolutions are becoming much more common developers make their apps display better on them.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Whichever you decide... You have to keep in mind what you are going to use the tablet for to begin with... There are alot of things that tablets cannot do well which in turn we use our personal computers for... These tablets are new technology, and will be growing at an exponential rate... As of now the tablets are performing more and more than once originally released... I myself will not be giving up or replacing my computer for a tablet because I do lots of photo editing, video editing and most importantly my music software... So as for a tablet, I would only be using it to browse the web and social networking alongside the other various basic needs for internet use... As of now I currently own a Galaxy Nexus from Sprint, and it suffices for the daily rounds of networking and web search... But in the future with the new implementation of Microsoft Windows 8 and tablets, it seems that I might be replacing my PC... But in my opinion... Wait for the better tablets... Apple builds it's hardware to do what it does... There is little room to upgrade anything efficiently... Android is working on making their devices more breathable like a personal computer...
And in my opinion, Microsoft is the leading factor here as far as developing the better tablet... I am not a big Microsoft guy as opposed to Linux... But the money, resources, and experience tend to lean at Microsoft... In my opinion... Get the low cost Nexus 7 tablet for now... Keep the laptop... And save up for the swagger that Microsoft might develop here in the near future... or wait for Android to steal the spotlight and WOW us with the new tablet that might one day surpass the PC...
As far as Apple and their products... I am against them simply because of the crybaby courtroom antics... I will probably never buy another Apple product again because of their David Caruso like opportunistic grievances over their patents... They simply lost money because they're not on the ball as quick as Samsung... They lost out on sales due to the minimal changes in the iPhone hardware and design... It was a great run for the awesome product when it FIRST came out on the market... I think that their devices are well put together... but on the same note... the patents are ridiculous... and pretty soon someone will see the lawsuit rulings and get the bright idea of making car companies start having to pay royalties to whomever developed the first vehicle, and we'll all be driving on 3 tires instead of four...
Okay, first off, the myth about ipads never crashing is not true. iOS has a weird way of force closing crashed apps in the background, so you would never know that it happened. The reason why iOS seems very fast is that the OS itself is optimized to run on less resources and iOS has zero fragmentation. The main problem with android is the lack of unity in hardware and software. Apple has full control of iOS and hardware, so it is very efficient in that sense.
Moving on to the issue of replacing a computer with a tablet. My own view is that the easy things that you do on a laptop is a bit harder on a tablet as its OS tends to be much simpler and that means it can include a limited number of features. My suggestion is to wait for the new Microsoft Surface RT and Pro. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2601...s_surface_pro_which_tablet_will_you_want.html
The Pro version has a fully-powered intel ivy bridge cpu with a fully featured windows 8 in a tablet form. If the form factor has you staying away from laptops, then this is the thing for you. Keep in mind that the surface pro is essentially a laptop in tablet form and I think that's pretty cool.
If you really insist on just a android tablet, then it's either the asus transformer infinity or the galaxy note 10.1. I personally have used asus transformer pads and they are AMAZING. They are designed beautifully and definitely high-end. I haven't used the galaxy note 10.1, but the exynos quad does give it a significant boost over the asus tablet.
Reasons for not choosing ipad:
1. The ipad 3 is nothing that new. It still packs the outdated A5 cpu, but the gpu is something noteworthy. Retinal display is alright, b/c to tell you the truth, I can't tell the difference.
2. You cannot customize the ipad to your liking, that means no custom ROMs, kernels or skins, just plain-old iOS
3. The truth is between ipad and android tablets, it comes down to control and whether you like rooting and flashing ROMs. If you're tech-savvy and like to tinker with stuff, then go with android. If not, then it's down to personal preference, ipad or android, choose what you like.
4. Don't support Apple and it's anti-competition ways (more of a joke reason)
Good luck on choosing a tablet
If you want apps go for the iPad simple as. It has a greater catalogue of apps designed for the tablet which is lacking on Android. I've had an android tablet before but now own the new iPad. The apps are far better, and better optimised to make use of the hardware. The OS is smooth and optimised.
I use an android phone and an ipad to give me best of both worlds. I got bored with my Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet as it just felt like a bigger version of of phone.
Also Apple hardware tends to hold value better than most other products. So that's another thing to consider if reselling in the future.
Both are good don't get me wrong but choose one based on what you need and want it to do.
I use my iPad for streaming my music via home sharing, browsing the net, social networking, I watch my tv on it whilst in my bed by streaming off my satellite box, reading books, editing images now and then for quick fixes, and more.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
The people above have already summarized the main points, but allow me to emphasize a few things:
james_lpool said:
Hi, i am currently looking for a tablet, i am hoping in the long run it may replace my laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tablets currently out will not replace your laptop. Both android and especially iOS are pretty much toy OS's that, for example, only let you work with one app at a time (though there are some limited efforts on the android side to overcome it). The closest you might come to replacing your laptop is the Surface Pro, coming Jan 2013ish, or the mysterious Ubuntu tablets that haven't materialized so far. Even those probably won't be powerful enough; it'll take a few years for the technology to catch up.
That is why I bought my tablet (the nexus 7) in a completely different niche than my laptop. It's meant to be an easy-to-carry, convenient device for mostly consumption.
Of the ipad alternatives you listed, I reckon that the galaxy note 10.1 is the most interesting. Who knows, maybe the stylus actually would be as useful as they portray in those business commercials.
Personally, i would stick with android. you have so much flexibility with it. and if you do want to get the framework of the ipad on your tablet, you could always flash miui also, you can download apps without using installous. you can view your storage files and folders with the android, but you can't do so so easily with the ipad.
As someone forced by work to use an ipad3 I have to say it is crap.
My sensation browses the web faster, android apps are cheaper or totally free, the iPad is buggy as hell.
Apps crash on it a lot, despite being on the same network as my phone, even with a stronger signal the 3G speed is much slower.
XDA takes longer to load fully, even in chrome on the iPad, and if you try to type a reply before it has fully loaded expect to find yourself unable to type at all do you have to reload the page.
Scrolling any pages with images is laggy as hell, really jerky if you flick the page up or down.
Predictive text is a joke, you type a word and one letter from completion it makes a suggestion, and god help you if you don't want the word it suggests!
I'm fricken fed up having to change keyboard mode for punctuation or numbers too!
Oh nearly forgot, a couple of weekends ago it started needing hard reboots if I wanted to spend more than 10 minutes online with 3G.
My razors all I need I just "dock" it and I've got a working linix computer. But I too am waiting but I want to see the windows 8 also first. I own apple stock but I'd never buy an Apple phone. I have thousands of songs hundreds of cartoons dozens of movies and all for free . and I'm also 99 percent add free
XT912 - .215 radio - SimplexROM 1.2 - AIDE - Tether - Wigdetsoid - Linux Installer w/ Ubuntu 10.10 - Otter Box - Safestrap - Chrome - Tweaked Camera
Android tablets are closer to replacing laptops than Apple tablets. iOS is just too restrictive to be productive on. You can't even download files off the internet on the iPad.
That being said, the Surface Pro will actually be a laptop replacement, as you can run all your favorite laptop software on it, and it runs a full fledged OS.
xaccers said:
As someone forced by work to use an ipad3 I have to say it is crap.
My sensation browses the web faster, android apps are cheaper or totally free, the iPad is buggy as hell.
Apps crash on it a lot, despite being on the same network as my phone, even with a stronger signal the 3G speed is much slower.
XDA takes longer to load fully, even in chrome on the iPad, and if you try to type a reply before it has fully loaded expect to find yourself unable to type at all do you have to reload the page.
Scrolling any pages with images is laggy as hell, really jerky if you flick the page up or down.
Predictive text is a joke, you type a word and one letter from completion it makes a suggestion, and god help you if you don't want the word it suggests!
I'm fricken fed up having to change keyboard mode for punctuation or numbers too!
Oh nearly forgot, a couple of weekends ago it started needing hard reboots if I wanted to spend more than 10 minutes online with 3G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Serius,crash???my gilfriend have the nexus and the galaxy 2,and my ipad 3 is 300% better,than nexus,100% more stable,more beautiful,and responsive etc!!!!ipad =the best ecosystem in the world(in tablet)
Pd:just walk to bestbuy and touch the nexus and touch the ipad the diference is too long!!!