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Just a quick question!
How do you think Android will stack up to Windows Mobile when it comes to functionality? Android will certainly look better and be much more finger friendly,etc, but will it be closer to the limits of the iPhone when it comes to copy paste (Android has copy paste, but dont know if it works everywhere), email, contacts, and such? Will Windows Mobile fans be dissapointed or feel crippled when using Android?
Ive played around with the Android SDK a bit, but i havent really gotten a definite feeling if the functionality suits my needs
Cheers!
Yes I am also looking for some forum information on this matter. I would like to know the opinion of anyone who has had a hands on experience with both OS's. Found a nice article in endgadget but I like user opinions better.
I definetly want to know too!
Here is what I want to know for the Droid...
Can you use it as wifi router?
Does it do push hotmail instantly?
Is there logmein support?
Does it work with orb?
i'm moving to Android when Acer A1 liquid is out, then Sony X10a.
Android got free gps navigation with realtime traffic! nice!
segadc said:
I definetly want to know too!
Here is what I want to know for the Droid...
Can you use it as wifi router?
Does it do push hotmail instantly?
Is there logmein support?
Does it work with orb?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yes
2. No, not that I'm aware of anyway, but you can forward Hotmail email to your Google Account to receive it instantly.
3. Yes
4. Yes
Anything else anyone else wants to know then feel free to post here and I'll do my best to answer it in a reasonable time.
I swapped my Touch Diamond for my G1 and I can do everything that I could do on my windows mobile (although I didn't have WinMo for long)
I've had all of the mobile OS's and always come back to windows mobile. Android is approaching windows mobile when you think of the ability to flash other OS versions and wide range of applications on an open system. But windows mobile gives me true multitasking ability like a desktop computer, and windows mobile can be edited and programmed to be something else. Through haret windows mobile phones can run haret and even android.
dashauns said:
I've had all of the mobile OS's and always come back to windows mobile........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'm heading this way too. Android has been quite a disappointment to me. Initially I was very happy with my new Milestone that replaced an HTC Touch Pro running WM6.1. The performance difference was staggering, there really is no comparison between them. However I just find more and more things missing from Android/Milestone note this list is just a braindump, some of it's in Android, some of it's the packaging for the Milestone, I'm guessing you can tell the difference.
No Outlook Integration, I really think that should have been there out of the box, there are third party apps that i've used with varying degrees of success.
Restricted Video viewing. I used to use coreplayer to view just about anything on WM without any conversions. Now through restricted information on APIs needed to port CorePlayer to ANdroid I'm stuck with a lengthy conversion process when I want to put video on the phone.
No contact lookup while dialing from the keypad, I really miss that.
No note taking, or word editing apps built in.
Can't save attachments in email - wtf!! this is basic functionality, everytime I want to view a word file attached to an email I have to wait while it downloads form my mail server.
Can't foreward some attachment types - crazy crazy
Can't edit original text in replies or forwards - this is basic functionality missing
Cut and paste is awful - ranging from not implemented, to badly implemented depending on where you try to use it.
Can't switch an sd card without rebooting - I don't know if this is milestone specific but you actually can't remove the sd card without removing the battery.
Tethering, I'm using PDANet, I don't think there is a WMWifiRouter equivalent without rooting the phone? So I am using PDANets blueTooth Dun service, much inferior to WMWifiRouters Personal Area Network implementation.
Can't charge from my exisiting Solar charger (Power Monkey Explorer), thats a pain in the ass, not sure why it doesn't work.
Facebook Contact integration, it claims to have it but it just doesnt work
Logmein doesnt work for me, nor do citrix support it for gotomypc
I'll add more as and when.
dashauns said:
I've had all of the mobile OS's and always come back to windows mobile. Android is approaching windows mobile when you think of the ability to flash other OS versions and wide range of applications on an open system. But windows mobile gives me true multitasking ability like a desktop computer, and windows mobile can be edited and programmed to be something else. Through haret windows mobile phones can run haret and even android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you explain what you mean with real multitasking? what miss you on android?
Hi guys new to the forum and my first post
So I have both OS I just got a HTC HD2 Winmo 6.5 and a HTC g1 Android
To me the Android is a lot lot easyer to use then Winmo. And the Markit place is the best I have used. But the HD2 looks nice the layout is top notch but when I go behind the HTC front skine and in to the Winmo I get lost and it all so looks like my winmo PDA witch I dont like.
As you can tell im not realy in to phones that much so dont know the correct names for the stuff im talking about lol.
If I could have Android under the Htc HD2 skin I would be happy
Hi everyone,
I would like to get an eee pad transformer. However, with my previous laptop, I bought a legal version of MS office 2010, and would be a shame to loose it now.
I could find the files to create a dual boot with ubuntu on that device.
I found on a few topics that qemo could help emulate a x86 system, even on an ARM tablet.
Then I read that wine could enable installing MS designed softwares on Ubuntu.
Do you think following the 3 steps above could let me install Office 2010 on a eee pad transformer?
This would be critical for me to finally decide to buy it.
Thanks a lot for your help
Chris
I doubt it very much, there is a moderately working version of Ubuntu that moderately runs on the TF - but installing WINE and running MS Office, not a hope.
There are a few different versions of Android Office's you can install - none are anything like MS office though
Amazon, today (just a few more hours) has Documents To Go, free. I have been using it for a long while and it is very compatible with Word, Excel and Powerpoint. If that helps.
Thanks for your quick and honest answer. That sounds like a very bad news for me.
Unfortunately I can't go for Android designed office as for business purpose, I often develop some VBA programs, and I strongly doubt those are supported and possibe to edit under those softwares...
Thing is I am really looking for a good Android tablet (avoid Windows at all costs) on which I could use this only MS soft... Any solution could work for me (dual booting, emulation...)
Any idea then?
To be honest I don't think the processors they put in tablets are going to do a great job running a desktop OS (such as ubuntu) AND running emulation on top of it. Wine runs pretty clunky and buggy at best on a desktop processor. I can't imagine it's going to be a wonderful experience on a tablet, especially running Office 2010 or for developing VBA programs. Perhaps in the upcoming iteration of processors you might be able to but we won't know until they're out. Even then, it will probably still be fairly slow and buggy.
Ok so as a conclusion I should rather buy a windows tablet and emulate honeycomb using Android SDK.
Does it give the same experiance as an android tablet?
Any tablet to advise me?
There are rumors that the transformer 2 (Prime) will be able to run Windows 8
But it is only a rumor at this stage, and would be ARM based not x86 anyway
There are a few Windows 7 tablets if you Google for such, but from the video reviews I have seen they are slow and laggy at best
Maybe a touchscreen laptop / netbook would be more suited for your needs
Then when Windows 8 is released you will have the tiled Metro touch interface that is designed for touch.
You can get some touchscreen notebooks that allow swiveling of the screen, so it basically closes with the screen side facing up, giving the feeling of a tablet
Where Polaris Office fails to deliever what you need, I suggest you just switch to a Windows box for MS or Libre Office as needed. You can also use SplashTop (better than VNC IMHO) via MyNet and access your PC from your TF, that should work.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
This last solution gives me hope!! Splashtop could actually solve my issue.
Thanks a lot for your help!
As long as you don't need to track the mouse cursor's movements, SplashTop is very handy but can take getting used to. My own use of it, is mostly web surfing and video that requires a Wintel (e.g. XFinity).
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I figured out I could connect to a NAS in my company. It is using Windows server 2008. Does it work with splashtop?
chris-france said:
I figured out I could connect to a NAS in my company. It is using Windows server 2008. Does it work with splashtop?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just use 2x RDP client its freeand works great for remotedesktop
Some hope for you...
Microsoft is in the process of making their Windows 8 ARM compatible, which is the architecture "mobile" gadgets run on. I will probably find a way to run Windows/ Ice Cream Sandwich dual boot, similar to what I've done in the past on laptops. Windows is your only chance of running Office. That said, the functionality offered by Google Docs, Documents To Go, and other "Lite" Office apps should provide plenty of functionality for you. This is a tablet, not a laptop. It's a great product in it's class, but not a PC replacement. Asus makes the Eee Slate EP121 (played with one, very cool!) if you want a Windows Tablet, but for $1000, it's a product without much demand. Hope this helps.
The mish mash of mobile devices, tablets, notebooks, desktops etc has me interested in collecting some of my thoughts (blogging ftw), now that stuff like Android devices, Chromebooks, and normal Laptops are bluring the lines ever more so. My TF101 is my go-to machine for almost everything that doesn't involve Direct3D/DirectX or Internet Exploder, even at work. I'm going to start blogging about the implications of such a bit more but it also makes me curious about what specifically keep people tied to the old world PC. Mine is only software developers that still target Windows on x86.
Maybe I'm sick of the never ending ICS and Prime stuff on this forum or maybe I've just got to much time on my lunch break. The TF101 and technically Android in general, provide 95% of what I need out of a computing device. We have had a few threads that amount to people asking if they can use a Transformer like a notebook, so I just have to ask why do you still use your notebook? What do you need to do that you cannot use an Android device for.
Between things like the TF's and Android x86, lack of a decent way of typing doesn't count lol.
-> disclaimer: my job involves more programming than editing office documents. I've had fully functional life using *BSD systems, let along needing Windows or OSX.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Lack of a decent way of typing. Sorry, but the dock keyboard isn't that great. Oops, that does not count.
#1 THERE IS NO ANDROID OFFICE SOFTWARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE THAT WILL REPLACE MS OFFICE. I HAVE TRIED THEM ALL. SIMPLE EXCEL CHECK BOX DOES NOT SHOW UP IN ANY OF THE ANDROID OFFICE SUITS.
If all you do for example is surf for porn then yes, the transformer could replace your netbook, laptop, or desktop.
I find all the good productive software are on Windows, if I was not at home I have to choose between running these software on a x86/x64 architecture laptop natively or running a remote desktop connection back to my home PC to satisfy such needs. The small screen is also a factor when it comes to using it for productivity of any kind. The most downer for Android atm is probably the horrible multitasking for tablets. There is no way to open even two apps side by side, seriously?
What I mean by 'doesn't count', as far as the TF is concerned it is no worse than typing on a netbook or a comparably sized laptop. I should know, I've used laptop keyboards from 12 to 18 hours a day for the last 5, nearly 6 years now. I type and read excessively. For the wider scope of Android, it's more a matter of screen space.
Issues like the stock browser's text area's lagging on the TF or lack of certain keystrokes from Win/GTK/Qt, are purely software artifacts that can be fixed with updated or replaced software, hell maybe even contributing to ASOP! Hardly killer given what can be done (e.g. opera and HC's text selection) to work around, and when it comes to handwriting, there are more options than the typical PC.
If text input is your problem, then why?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
I have a powerful desktop, a notebook that's a few years old but was top-notch when bought, and now my TF101 with dock.
I use the dock less than I expected to, largely because the keyboard isn't very good. I mostly use the dock as a stand when watching movies, and for very light writing work. (Making quick notes, answering email, Facebook posts, etc.) although I find the stock Honeycomb soft keyboard *almost* as fast to type on, if I put the tablet in my lap.
The other area where the TF101 doesn't come close is for replacing my notebook for work. I need apps like Photoshop CS5, Dreamweaver CS5, etc. for my day job, and short of using MyDesktop I can't get those on my tablet. (MyDesktop works in a pinch, but again the sub-par keyboard means I don't use it as much as I might, and the lack of things like right mouse-button support reinforce that.)
So my Transformer becomes my content-consumption device -- browsing the web, listening to streaming radio, watching movies, checking Facebook and Gmail, maybe playing an occasional light game.
My desktop is my go-to machine for work, and for everything else. Proper gaming, anything where I have to do much typing.
My notebook is now demoted to where it gets used maybe a couple of times a month, when I don't want to be chained to my desk, but need more than my tablet can offer.
Each device has its own purpose, and none will ever fully replace the others for me.
Anything that requires power or precision you need something other than the transformer. For example you like watching movies on the tab but no way can you encode them on it same goes for video editing. You can view drawings on it but you can't create them on it even if you do have a stylus. Tablets are great for consumption but other that text based work, aren't very good at creation. They definitely have a use and I wouldn't be without mine but I need my laptop as well.
v8code said:
You can view drawings on it but you can't create them on it even if you do have a stylus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adobe Ideas begs to disagree:
http://www.adobe.com/products/adobe...m-en-casestudy-creativesuite-design-brian-yap
So does Photoshop Touch:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-touch.html
why i sometimes still need a laptop or desktop.
v8code said:
Anything that requires power or precision you need something other than the transformer. For example you like watching movies on the tab but no way can you encode them on it same goes for video editing. You can view drawings on it but you can't create them on it even if you do have a stylus. Tablets are great for consumption but other that text based work, aren't very good at creation. They definitely have a use and I wouldn't be without mine but I need my laptop as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends what you need to do, as we can all see. for my wife, it has perfectly replaced her cruddy old laptop, since all she does is faccebook, email, web and the pics/movies etc. she doesnt miss windblows. i dont miss another laptop to douche/clean every year either. i can back it up easy enough, etc etc... me. i have one too, but for the same reasons - light stuff - i can't encode movies/mp3/etc etc - many things a power user cannot do on a tablet lol.. good tab tho, we both love it, the dock is killer - adds so much life to it, we both like it more than the ipad or ipad2 (which we both tried for a week).
thanks!
For me, my laptop is a necessity. I am a grad student, and therefore always seem to be taking notes (both personally and in class) and writing papers. While the tablet can do most things I do okay, it cannot compare to the PC for doing them all at once. I am constantly having to have multiple PDFs of books and various journal articles open, as well as at least two Word documents, in addition to web browsers. The laptop allows me to to all this while virtually anywhere; if I get too restless at home, I can sit outside doing work, or go to a coffee shop, etc. While at home, I can connect a separate monitor to the laptop to have research on it while the paper I'm writing is on my main screen. Printing is important, and while there are some ways of printing with the tablet, nothing as advanced or smooth as on the laptop.
The tablet can't even have two screens visible side-by-side at the same time, which is a major downfall. Also switching between PDFs and documents I'm writing is not at all convenient or smooth.
It's a great little device for doing basic reading and light research, but it has a long way to go before I even begin to consider using it as my primary machine.
I'd have to agree with most of the reasons for still using a laptop as above. Although I don't use my laptop much, my main reason is for the multitasking.
Most of the uni work I do (computer + social science) typically involves me having many windows open for referencing etc. Using a few messengers, social networking sites for communication, PDF viewers + browser windows for research papers, a few more browser windows for API references, Microsoft or Libre office for strict and formally formatted documents, reference software (Mendeley) for references + formatting and maybe an IDE or 2 all at the same time, just isn't possible on android at the moment.
If ICS improves on some of the existing multitasking concept and some more apps begin to realise their potential with regards to presentation of created content, then I'll probably use my desktop and laptop even less.
That's not to say I don't thoroughly enjoy my TF and use it for a lot of other things (mainly lazy content consumption, lectures, and reading eBooks, as well as travelling.)
I still don't find much "serious" software for Android. In specific, if Android had an Adobe Premiere analog I would be so down. I would much also rather do a lot of things on a bigger screen. I have a 15" laptop that is a nice size for most things; I wouldn't like editing video much on a 10" screen unless there was some amazing new interface for doing non-linear editing. I also really like being able to work between Windows 7 and Ubuntu on the laptop. But I'm wondering if the next couple of months won't have us triple booting Win-Lin-Droid. So how about a 15" Android dockable tablet with a full size keyboard and can triple boot the aforementioned operating systems and has about 4 gigs of RAM. With that much space in the full-sized keyboard dock we could probably see 30+ hour battery life, too. My $1000 is waiting for such a monster.
adampdx said:
...So how about a 15" Android dockable tablet with a full size keyboard and can triple boot the aforementioned operating systems and has about 4 gigs of RAM. With that much space in the full-sized keyboard dock we could probably see 30+ hour battery life, too...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. This is what I want too.
Multitasking is a good point, and one which is a major blocking point for me in using Android more (and in my day job).
Say what you like, but what we have now where most programs lack the ability for the user to close them, and can be unpredictably closed by the OS (losing work in the process) when you switch away from them for an indeterminate amount of time is NOT proper multitasking. In my opinion, this is the biggest single area where Android needs to improve. I understand that not everybody wants control over when apps start and stop, but for many of us it is crucial. It should at the very least be an option for the user to override the default behavior and assume full control over which programs are opened and closed.
Laptops are more flexible than Android/iOS tablets. my least favourite thing about getting my Transformer was when I transferred random video files over to it to watch in bed... and none of them worked in any video player I tried. With a Windows/Linux/MacOS laptop, it's just a case of installing VLC and everything works right away.
Then there's the fact that the browser doesn't suck even on my 900MHz Celeron-powered eeePC from three years ago. Even when overclocked to 1.6GHz, the Transformer can feel very very sluggish at times. Not something I want from a Tablet or phone. At least when my trusty old eeePC is being sluggish, there's an obvious reason why.
I still use my Laptop when I have to, I can do most of my work from the tablet but a few online services wont work without popups. and I cant find a browser to handle them.
Firefox will handle our citrix site at a pinch, but requires practice as the screen size is skewed. But its only a matter of time before these things are attended to IMNHO
Spidey01 said:
The mish mash of mobile devices, tablets, notebooks, desktops etc has me interested in collecting some of my thoughts (blogging ftw), now that stuff like Android devices, Chromebooks, and normal Laptops are bluring the lines ever more so. My TF101 is my go-to machine for almost everything that doesn't involve Direct3D/DirectX or Internet Exploder, even at work.
-> disclaimer: my job involves more programming than editing office documents. I've had fully functional life using *BSD systems, let along needing Windows or OSX.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
personally for me, the prime will be my general use item. I can web browse, email, view media, play some games etc and it will become my workaday.
but the tablets are not yet at a place to replace a full blown laptop because I do a lot of graphics work, sometimes with 400-600mb images, so until photoshop can run on a tablet I will still have a main machine.
so. can a prime replace a laptop? no, not entirely, because I still need my main machine to do graphics work, I use my main unit to convert video media to play on the tablet but for my writing and general use, the prime will be excellent.
I have a desktop, laptop, and Transformer.
Desktop is used for primarily gaming, not much more than that.
Laptop is for creating docs, VPNing into work, keeping track of fantasy football team over multiple websites.
Transformer is for quick web surfing, long trips/on the go, various apps, forums such as XDA.
All three devices I have serve a purpose and are all important to me.
knoxploration said:
Adobe Ideas begs to disagree:
http://www.adobe.com/products/adobe...m-en-casestudy-creativesuite-design-brian-yap
So does Photoshop Touch:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-touch.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By their own examples its a photo touch up editor and not a graphics creator. Sure you could probably do some good stuff but it isn't full photo shop on a 17"/21" monitor and a graphics tablet hooked up to it. You could also do VNC onto a server and do 3D cad if you really wanted to but why. Its just so much easier to do on a full desktop or good laptop.
Cut, copy and past pictures and videos from my cameras is a lot easier on a proper laptop.
Android 3.x won't even allow me to view the vidoes from my cameras - my laptop does with the standard media player.
Creating and editing documents, especially long ones, is easier on a laptop.
Multitasking is far better on a laptop - two programs side by side.
Image editing is far more intuitive and easier on a laptop.
Storage space.
Inking. When you've used a proper Tablet PC you'll realise just how pathetic a modern tablet is.
Voice dictation. My old 1.3MHz Atom laptop can run Dragon Dictate without problems.
Don't get me wrong, I won't be selling my Transformer, but there is no way it can replace a proper computer. The last time I went away on a trip I left my laptop at home and just took the Transformer. Never again.
Hi Folks
Just wondering if anyone has seriously considered or is using android on the desktop?
Hear me out here!
Since stopping using windows as my main desktop OS about 18 months ago, I've been enjoying all the fruits that open source has to offer. I think I must have trying nearly every flavour of Debian/Ubuntu distro's and currently using some Mint/Gnome 2 setup. partly due to Unity's immaturity as Multihead desktop and probably part of me can't let go of that "Start" menu analog.
Through all my "testing" however I've still not settled on the right desktop/development environment, I've tried them all, really, I feel like I given pretty much every Window Manager out there a go, I especially like the blank canvas of openbox although I've got real work to do as well, so configuration wise It's not something I want to know right now
Part of my issue is I've got a what I would consider a bit of an edge case when I comes to setup. My current setup is over 3 Monitors ( I was considering 6 but thought I might get whiplash from moving my head too much :laugh: )
Right now I live my live mostly in Terminal Windows and Bash Prompts and do most of my hacking In gedit with some plugins ( maybe not the most productive but it's kinda of working for me at the minute )
After giving the Android x86 project, It got me thinking whether It would be a viable option. I know android certainly has the capability to run over multiple monitors although whether I would have to do a bit of hacking on the Framebuffer internals ( add extra ones etc ) has yet to be investigated.
With regards Android Development it kinda of makes sense to Develop right there in it's native environment ( I'm talking Kernel/System Level here not apps) . Compiling the AOSP etc should still be the same process.
So Yeah, Android on the Desktop - Discuss
I'd be interested if anyone has been crazy/foolhardy/patient enough to go down this road and are just keeping quiet about it and If there's any gotcha's etc to think about before embarking on such a mission.
Android is better off on smartphones and Tablets and Windows in better off on Desktops and Laptops.
As Im an avid gamer, I wouldnot mind having Android on my Desktop. Android has limited no. of good games but Windows dont.
Sent from my GT-i9100 equipped with Grenade Launcher and Remote Explosives
www dot apc dot io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
nightfire37 said:
www.apc.io
Hope that answers your question.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it
I spent a week or 2 only using an hp touchpad, to see if I could get away using it as a desktop replacement.
The biggest problem I found is that the apps aren't really designed for serious productivity. Google docs is great for viewing things, but is very irresponsive on large documents, and doesn't like fancy formatting. Browsing was a nightmare. I had 3 or 4 different browsers, because each had different plugins, flash support, user agents, etc. Many browsers were unstable, and flash always caused random crashes and other weird problems. Gmail is useless for attachements, and there is no reasonable text editor.
It's doable, but you may have to spend a while finding apps to replicate all the functionality you expect from your PC.
trevd said:
Thanks, That's the kinda of thing, I was not aware of this project/product ( although still vapourware til next month ) At least I'm not crazy for thinking it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. I am thinking on getting this for the fact to support the devs on the product.
Sent from my YP-G70 using XDA
As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.
theInfected1 said:
As a desktop replacement I'm not so sure but Android can definitely work as a netbook replacements.
It also depends what you use ur desktop for. Anything more that web browsing and email, I'll still prefer having a full fledged OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An android desktop could do mail, web browsing, multimedia, usenet or torrent downloads, games, dlna streaming, ebook reading and text editing (writing, creating pdf, etcetera) well.
It would not be able to do some of the things a desktop can do such as transcode video, run open office, use pc accessories, etcetera.
This is primarily because android is a mobile oriented os though it's likely that other than the use of pc accessories developers will write apps to get android doing even more as it is now a very popular tablet os and tablets often get used as a pc does.
Android could be a desktop for general everyday use right now but not for everyone.
For now windows and linux still beat android for both software, peripheral support and overall os speed making those better options however its also easier to have a new user mess those up than it is to mess up android so for general use it could be a good option.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: Let me start by saying I've owned quite a few Android smartphones, and I've worked on twice as many for friends, family, etc. I've also owned a couple of Android tablets. Without trying to sound too cynical, let's just say I've been around the block when it comes to Android devices When it comes to phones, Android is as perfect as any OS could be. With it always improving, there's always more to love. For tablets, the experience didn't come off to a great start, but there have surely been improvements since. The first high-end tablets, as well as cheap alternatives, ran on Gingerbread or older. My first cheapo tablet ran on a rare version of Android 2.0 Eclair. Let me tell you, it wasn't pleasant at all! I decided to wait for Honeycomb to come out before trying another tablet, and that's when I picked up an Acer Iconia A500 with the sole intention being to use it like I'd use a computer. The only computer I had at the time was a 10" Acer netbook, so once I bought the tablet, I sold the netbook right away. Now, I will admit that I waited a little bit to see how Honeycomb took off. By the time I got my Iconia, 3.2 was just coming out. In order to completely replace any kind of computer, I knew I would need at least 3 accessories: a stand, keyboard, and mouse. In my initial research, I learned that Android 3.0 didn't have mouse support by default. This was fixed by the dev community here, and Google was prompt to add mouse support in the 3.1 update. So by the time I had my Iconia running 3.2, everything appeared to be ready as far as being a PC replacement. Or so I thought. One major reason I picked the A500 over other tablets was the fact that it had a full-size USB port right on the tablet itself, whereas others either didn't have one at all (Xoom, Galaxy Tab), or it was only available on the keyboard dock (Transformer). As a computer replacement, USB was important to me. It didn't take long for me to realize that a tablet as a PC replacement wasn't the most ideal choice at the time. While there are plenty of apps available to perform many different tasks, the real problem I had was with the way Android itself handled. The apps were more than good enough. There's email, web browsing, multimedia, word processing, etc. The problem is the way Android feels with a keyboard and mouse. One major problem for me was that Android has no proper right-click support with mice. It simply works like a back button. I feel that right-click would be more natural as the functionality of a long press. Another issue I was constantly trying to deal with was the amount of clicks required to complete simple tasks. I could do the same tasks twice as fast on any computer running Windows or Linux. This caused more frustration than anything else. File managers were generally really good - there's actually a couple that I really like a lot, but navigation was always an issue. It wasn't only file managers, but within several areas. Once again, this goes back to needing more clicks for the same tasks, and long pressing where a simple right-click would feel better. While the move to ICS was a huge improvement in performance, it didn't really solve anything with productivity and ease of use. USB support was also hit or miss, and a lot of it has to do with drivers. Now that's understandable, as most hardware venders don't expect Android to be the host OS. Hopefully this changes some day. Eventually I ended up trading the tablet and all the accessories for a mid-range laptop which I use now. I have this system triple-booting between Windows, Linux, and Android (android-x86.org). The same problems I faced with the tablet, I also face with ICS on my laptop. I find myself only booting to Android once in a blue moon, and it's always just to show off to my friends. Any real work is done with one of my other OS's. There's definitely a lot of potential with the Android platform as a desktop OS, but I feel like it's still a couple years away at least. There are still a few minor annoyances trying to use Android as a computer that need to be addressed. Maybe by the time Android 6.0 or 7.0 is released, it will put up a good fight for the desktop. Only time will tell. Another viable option is phones that dock to a computer with a desktop interface. Anyone remember Canonical's plans? Also keep in mind Linux kernel 3.3 which adopted Android natively, which is a huge step for Canonical and their Ubuntu-Android dreams.
i have been using android since 2008. The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop. I used macbook for a year or so but I went back to windows.
HP Touchpad replaced my netbook.70% of the time i use my hp touchpad to chat, browse and play videos.
But when it comes to work or college work I go back to my good ol' desktop or laptop because
google spreadsheet is nowhere near MS Excel
google docs is nowhere near MS Word
fortemcee said:
The only thing i can tell you is Android can replace netbooks but not laptops and desktop.
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I coming to that conclusion...... More for on the move devices, Although there some good stuff going on with the 10ft Experience (Android on TV's) at the moment.
It is also interesting to hear how people interact with their devices,
I'm far from an average user..... If i'm not developing with/on android I don't what to do with it :laugh: I think that's why my tablet has a keyboard and mouse plugged into most of the time
Thanks for the Input.
Bloodflame said:
Short version: Currently, I would say no. In the future (2+ years minimum), I highly expect Android to compete for the desktop. It comes down to software moreso than hardware.
TL;DR version: ...
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Brilliant That's exactly the type of responses I hoped for, a man whose got he's knees dirty in these dam robots on the desktop ... little long but I did read it.
[Short Version] In Summary I'm inclined to agree with you give it a couple of years, As a developer I could probably fix it up but I probably wouldn't be finished before google etc sorted it themselves[Short Version]
Here's a more verbose reply :laugh:
I have seen some 2.x tabs in my time, trailblazers but not nice.... I presume you gave the 1.6 x86 one a go as well then? Just for kicks.
I've been using a mouse and keyboard on my tablet, an Archos G9 through a usb hub which also has full size usb slot..... I've never really twicked onto the mouse lack of context menu/right click being an issue until you pointed it out, I can see how it would become an irritant after a while unless you're a MacUser than one button should be fine
The right mouse button acting the same as long press would be a vast improvement, I'll probably have a look at what development effort is involved in that ( or at least add it to the pile of interesting stuff I want to do with my time )
I've found the keyboard to be useful, Shortcut Keys are generally the same as there desktop counterparts. Take Ctrl+L to type a web address in your browser for example and If I dig around the android source code for a while I'm sure I could find some more unpublished ones or add my own and help on the number of click navigation issues etc .
USB Support is not a problem with each iteration of Android it gets better internally and I'm currently working with the opinion that if a linux driver exists I can compile it and at least get android the recognize the device... I've been deep in the USB Internals with android for the last few months.
On the Androidx86.... I've not checked the project in a while, there maybe have greater focus on solving some on these usability issues.
With regard to phones and docking I do remember canonicals plans ( wasn't that earlier this year) or are you talking about the circa 2009/10?!? ubuntu proposed project to run apks directly on your pc? essentially running the dalvikvm/surfaceflinger framebuffer management, support services on ubuntu with an X Window for the app.
The latter I feel is highly possible especially with android fully "unforked" in the kernel - not looked at the full details but I presume that includes all androids system level binder stuff and their shared memory modules and the former, I think a manufacturer release something called "Android in a Window" (Motorola or LG, maybe) An interactive android window on the desktop... also motorola's Webtop looks interesting.
I've written enough, Thanks for the Input
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
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It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
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I've had android ICS x86 on my Acer W500 (a windows tablet) for a little while now. It was installed along side the Windows 8 Developer Preview which expired and shuts down after a few minutes of use now. Instead of updating it to the W8 Consumer Preview for more time I just started using ICS full time. With my tablet in the "dock" (which is just a keyboard really) and a mouse hooked up I used it for days as a PC replacement (the power supply in my normal desktop died).
Android would be totally fine as a desktop OS, but apps would have to start being designed with that in mind.
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
The OS will have to be redesigned to allow for that capability and then new apps will have to be written to able to take advantage of it. Is it possible? Absolutely! Is it ready to be your desktop replacement? Not yet!
deathsled said:
Think about it:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
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I would say there is arguments for and against sizeable apps (I suppose that describes it), Personally I run multiple monitors and generally have Maximised Windows all the way, obviously every use case is different but I think android would become "just another window manager" and lose some of what android is If it had totally free window placement.
It is also assuming the current desktop metaphor which is in use today is the best/most productive way of interacting with the machine.... Maybe we're just blindly doing it because we've all be trained to think like that, and it's always been that way.
I don't claim to have the answers on any of these points though
I suppose the only thing I can do is stop talking and start doing, "try it yourself" as we say in the "trade" .....I've got a laptop I could give it a blast on, I can at least try a multiple monitor test with that with out too much disruption.
saqi4you said:
no one found any way to run android on PC or Laptop ???????
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dragon_76 said:
It runs in virtualisation fine and there are a few PC's that can run it natively, I would bet Jelly bean will run on x86 without fuss.
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You might want to read the full thread guys It's kinda what we're talking about, check the Androidx86 project out if you've never seen it before
Actually with apps like overskreen and the open source standout library which lets apps float, so you can have several open at once on screen together and swap between them, you could multitask with multiple open windows.
It's a new approach but already finding favour on tablets.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
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deathsled said:
You can't have multiple windows open at once on the screen for serious multitasking. What if I want to have a terminal/command prompt open while I reference a document in the web browser? With android I'm going to be switching between fullscreen apps.
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If I am doing some coding on my PC (running Ubuntu) I use i3-wm which is a tiling window manager. I find the best option is to have all applications full screen and switch between them quickly using keystrokes. The same thing can be done with a theoretical Android Desktop.
I think the case for an Android Desktop is a strong one. Just looking at mobile phone shops and sites, Android is the most popular firmware for smartphones on the market so the amount of people owning one is only going to increase. With that it means that online communities like this site will get bigger with more people offering support and development. An Android desktop might not have the same look and feel as the smartphone version but if it can emulate the same functionality i.e. the way to do something on a smartphone is the same as on the desktop then the leap from smartphone to desktop won't be so hard for people. As you will have the same underlying platform, the same will apply for developers so it means application development on the Desktop version should in theory be faster.
That's a way of doing it but my preference would be a convergence of devices where say I can plug my smartphone into a docking station which hooks it up with a monitor, keyboard and mouse or like the Assus Padfone where a smartphone can be pluged into a tablet dock which turns it into a tablet.
Hey Guys,
I am thinking about purchasing a Surface, but not sure which to go with. I would prefer the 64GB one but not sure if I should go RT or Pro.
What are the main differences between the RT and the Pro? Why go Pro and not RT?
Please help me out guys
Its a very blunt difference.
The Surface RT uses an ARM processor. The Surface Pro uses an x86 processor.
As a result of that the Surface RT uses Windows RT which is not the same as Windows 8. Windows RT only runs on ARM processors and will not run software from previous versions of windows. All of your existing windows software will no longer work on the RT. RT can only install software downloaded from microsoft app store OR there is a jailbreak on these very forums allowing you to download software specifically ported for windows RT. Note, it must be specifically ported and there is no way of taking a DVD of software you already own and converting it for windows RT, basically if its not a piece of open source software then there is a 0% chance of getting it on your RT, if it is open source software then *eventually* you might be able to have a port but right now there are hurdles we need to get over first. Windows RT does come preinstalled with microsoft office though (although some macro's and extra features are missing). Internet explorer is the only web browser on it right now but does work in both metro and desktop mode. Someone is working on chromium (googles open source version of google chrome) but that has alot of problems that need solving yet. There is an x86 emulator but its too slow to be used on anything but software from the 90's maybe.
Regular versions of windows (including windows 8) can only run on an x86 processor (such as almost anything made by intel or AMD). The Surface Pro does have this and comes pre installed with Windows 8 Pro accordingly. As a result all existing windows software that you may own will run on the Surface Pro. Downsides are that the battery life is significantly impacted (Toms hardware recorded over 7 hours on the RT but only 5 on the Pro), the weight is increased, fans are needed to cool the intel core i5 chip empowering the Pro so you have noise from them and it costs about twice as much as the RT. The pro also gets a fancy wacom stylus.
If your just web browsing and can live with only using the microsoft store and the limited pool of software available via the jailbreak (read in the relevant threads for more info) then go for the RT as its cheaper.
But if you do need full compatibility with previous windows software you own then RT will just annoy you, you'll have to splash out more cash sadly.
One other thing. The surface RT and the surface Pro are not the only windows tablets on the market. Windows RT tablet choice is a little limited (and out of the bunch then either the Surface RT or the Asus Vivotab RT are the best in my opinion) but there are plenty of full windows 8 tablets. Some of the other full windows 8 tablets use an intel atom processor instead of an intel core i3/i5/i7. The atom processor powered tablets often manage to ditch the fans featured in the core i series devices, boost the battery life to be competitive with ARM/WindowsRT devices, reduce weight inline with ARM tablets and most importantly reduces cost to be more inline with ARM devices. Infact thats the most annoying thing about current Windows RT on ARM devices, there is very little reason to buy them when in the same form factor, cost, weight and battery life you can have a tablet running full Windows 8 on the intel atom which is an x86 chip. Downside to the intel atom compared to the core i3/i5/i7 powered devices is processing power. They are not very powerful. The core i3/i5/i7 could possibly be used for some light 3d gaming but the atom will probably only cope with 2d games and not so much in the way of 3d (although that said, my friend plays minecraft on a previous gen lower clock speed intel atom quite happily and according to all benchmarks the intel atoms are more powerful than my current laptop which also copes with minecraft).
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
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Ryno_666 said:
can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
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via microSD not SD. Max size microSD available on the market right now is 64gb not 128.
Just go with the 64GB model Pro. You can always just add a MicroSD card for an extra 64 GB of space for movies, pics, etc..
The RT model will only use the RT software and the Pro will also use any PC software. No brainer for my choice.
Depends on what you need and want. The RT Imo blows the hell out of every other tablet on the market. The Pro is a desktop replacement. I went with the RT because I needed all day battery life, and have a pretty powerful desktop at home for gaming/encoding and most apps are available for the RT that use. Honestly the pro to rt compares are pretty pointless, it's like comparing an ipad with a mac book air (with way worse battery) and talking about the ipad like it's a POS because the air can do more. You also need to look at the Os's, Ipad and Android tablets are basically big phones honestly. Most android apps for tablets are phone apps just scaled to be huge. Windows RT is a watered down full OS which means printing is easy easier, full access to file system like you're used to, and a full office suite where you can actually be productive.
So long story short, do you NEED to run x86 apps on your tablet, is it your only PC, and do you not mind 3-4 hour battery? Then stick with the pro. If you want a kick ass tablet, RT is where it's at IMO.
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If you're only going to be doing regular tablet stuff, like browsing, watching videos/movies etc, but still feel like you need a full windows 8 experience, you should check out the Asus Vivotab smart. It uses a dual core Intel atom x86 processor clocked at around 1.8 ghz, had 64 gb storage, nfc, 10.1 inch screen with optional Bluetooth keyboard. Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard) and has 8.5 hours of battery life on regular use and 7 hours on heavy use. I checked out a couple of reviews (engadget and cnet) and both were very positive. The surface pro is geared towards 'prosumers' who create as well as consume and so require the processing power of an i5. But for the money, the vivotab is the best windows 8 tablet...... IN THE WORLD! (Jeremy Clarkson voice)
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RT is arguably more secure. Battery life is better. Cheaper. Very close to the full Windows experience compared to other popular tablets. Mail app is crappy. Can get sluggish like a netbook depending on how you use it. All plug-ins and drivers aren't compatible. So you couldn't root your android device with a RT for example or install a MMO you like.
Pro is a much faster full Windows experience with it's i5 and SSD and can do nearly everything your desktop/laptop can do but it's ports and screen size are limited. It has nifty pen input. Scaling issues. Its GPU is weak for games. Do you need a powerful computer that's mobile or a companion device that lasts most of the day? Basically what it comes down to.
vesper007 said:
Best of all, it only costs $499 (excluding the keyboard)
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Thats what I like about the atom powered devices. Here in the UK I can only find the Surface RT on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. I can only find the ASUS VivoTab Smart on sale for £399.99 without keyboard. Hmm. Battery life is similar. OS feels equally responsive on both devices for Microsoft Store apps. Cost the same. Hopefully we'll see RT devices dropping in price soon. Hardware wise they are hardly different from existing android devices which somehow manage to be far cheaper....
Personally I am saving some money aside for the ASUS VivoTab. The 11" model with a wacom stylus, gorilla glass and a transformer style keyboard dock rather than the Smart (smart keyboard is instead just a bluetooth keyboard which clips into a wallet/case for the tablet, case can also double as a stand).
Asus?
Ryno_666 said:
64GB Pro is a good compromise. It allows you to get rid of your tablet and your laptop and go for an all in 1 solution that can later be expanded via SD card to add additional 128 GB
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I purchased an RT device and felt **** blocked by the ARM architecture, the whole OS is right there, but you can't do anything with it. I waited till the Surface Pro released with plans to buy one, but the battery life sucks. I ended up getting a VivoTab T810C and the dock, then upgraded to Windows 8 Pro to join a domain and it has been perfect. Other than the low res screen (720p, would love to have seen a 1080p option) and occasional lag due to lower power CPU than I'm used to (My old daily driver had a quad core i7, 8gb of ddr3 1333, and a SSD, so a real speed demon) I love this thing. The dock gives an extra 10 or so hours of use plus 2 extra USB ports. Using an adapter to get full sized HDMI, it can run an external monitor. I'd love to see a desktop dock with ethernet and two full sized display outputs, but I'm assuming the dock port doesn't have enough bandwidth.
RT!!!
Go RT, it comes with office, which is at least $100 otherwise. Battery life is better, lighter, etc. I have the RT and love it! Plus its way cheaper, and you can use the microsd. Definitely go RT if you don't absolutely NEED any x86 programs. Plus, no viruses! (which you shouldn't get anyway unless you are on lame sites ?
I bought the Pro and took it back for the RT.
The Pro's battery life was too short for me and the tablet was quite warm while using it.
I had Lightroom installed and it ran quite well. Storage was an issue though so I decided to use Lightroom on my desktop instead and use the RT for the other tasks.
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My main question is whether or not the RT connects to ad-hoc WiFi like from WMWifiRouter or USB tether? That I think is the only thing keeping me from jumping laptop ship and also ditching my TouchPad.
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
GoodDayToDie said:
It runs Windows. Pretty much anything you can do in Windows 8 other than run desktop x86 apps (and even that's being worked on!) can be done in RT. This includes not only connecting to ad-hoc networks, but creating them, bridging them, and (I think; haven't tried yet) even Internet Connection Sharing through them, if you connect it to another network (for example, via a USB Ethernet adapter).
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I was hoping so, but you never know what some will do to lock their stuff down. All of the WInMo phones are/were capable of the same thing yet we had to hack that in.
Thanks for the info, youve pretty much pushed me the last bit, now i need to go play with one to be sure.
Oh, does anyone know if on Office 2013 Outlook still works like 2007/2010 with POP3? Does 2013 come with Outlook? If not, can i somehow install an older version or setup my email like a cell phone client? I use the 'keep on server for 1 day' feature to synch my phone and computer which auto cleans out my Inbox on my phone. I will not use IMAP so please dont try to convince me.
Office 2013 comes with Outlook in the same editions that Office 2010 or 2007 did. Office RT (the Windows RT port of Office 2013) does not come with Outlook.
Outlook 2013 can use POP3 "correctly" (in quotes because there's no correct way to use a protocol that obsolete and poorly designed) in the same manner as previous versions, yes.
Outlook RT has not yet been released, and may never be. If it is, it will probably cost some money but will almost certainly support POP3.
The default "Windows Mail" (in quotes because it's a travesty compared to the Vista-builtin program of the same name) client on Win8 and Windows RT actually does act as a mobile client, not a desktop one; this can be useful in some situations, but is more often a hassle. It does not (currently) support POP3 and may never.
Out of morbid curiosity, what's your beef with IMAP? It's not an ideal protocol, but it beats POP3 hands-down for a multi-device scenario (things like keeping track between devices of what has and has not been read, access mail sent from one device while on another one, delete from one device and optionally have it removed from all).
My "beef" is for one, its slow and clunky and i keep all my emails on my main PC in one .pst file, which is not my server. Keeping the emails on the server for one day allows me to synch Todays emails only on any phone/device i want and it works flawlessly. I also dont have to manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone. I also have multiple accounts which go to Outlook but only 3 that go to my phone and i dont want all of them on my phone.
Basically, it works for me and no one can convince me otherwise
In comparison to your "obsolete" comment the VA Hospital network uses a program built in COBOL and BASIC back in the 70's, yet they still run it today because it still works and is quite solid and havent been able to come up with anything that beats it. So whats wrong with using something that works?
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
You are hilarious. Just quit derailing the thread. Thanks for pointedly answering my 2 questions though.
GoodDayToDie said:
Have you actually looked at the wire traffic for POP3? It's very inefficient. Not sure where you got the idea that IMAP was slow or clunky by comparison. Granted, if you for some reason *really* don't want to store your email on the server, then POP3 works fine (you can use IMAP the same way, but you lose most of its advantages if you do so). Of course, you're hosed if anything ever happens to that single PST file on that single hard drive, so hopefully you make backups regularly (everybody should, anyhow)...
Your phone (or any other half-decent IMAP client) has options to only sync the most recent X number of emails. "... manually delete or scroll through a million emails on my phone..." shows that you've clearly never even looked at an IMAP client closely, much less tried to use one. I set most of my accounts to sync the last two weeks. Oh, that's another thing: why do you mention that you only sync three of your accounts on the phone as though that makes POP3 better? That's actually a downside of POP3, because you'll receive everything in those accounts, with no filtering. With IMAP, you could not only choose which accounts to sync, but which folders *in* those accounts. IMAP lets you automatically (for example) filter out spam from the inbox to another folder (possibly trash), and you'll never see it on the phone at all. Also, with IMAP, you can flag items on your PC for later reading on your phone (or vice versa). Your phone should offer the ability to filter by unread messages, which means that even if you get a lot of mail you can have your phone only show you the ones that you didn't already look at on the PC (with no searching needed on your part at all).
Why compare a network protocol to a hospital mainframe, when there's such a much more obvious apples-to-apples comparison available? Speaking of which, why the heck are you using HTTP and HTML? It's just terribly "slow and clunky" compared to Gopher! Think of all the bandwidth you're wasting with those headers and those markup tags and those images! Yes, sometimes we still use old things. ASCII, for example, is 50+ years old. Of course, so are B&W CRT analogue TVs and vacuum tubes, but I bet you don't still use either of those, either...
Meh, if you're still unconvinced, you're being willfully ignorant at this point, so carry on if you wish. Don't complain when you can't find any stores that still sell buggy whips, though. The world is moving on, and rightly so.
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Maybe because not every email provider has IMAP and the Surface RT should be about flexibility. . . I certainly am not going to change my email provider of 5 years because RT can't handle it.