Database Info

To the mods and Admin and general users ...

I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .

i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.

I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike

Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?

Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...

i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!

AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This would yield better results .

by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search

Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.

It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..

I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.

Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.

TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )

What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .

swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.

It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.

Just got my Att Fuze what are some good programs to DL?

whats some good programs to install?

Um well....... what do you want to do? Are you going to flash a new ROM? What are you using the phone for? These are the questions I have for you. Without knowing that we can't tell you what to look for.

sigh.. just go to the site in my sig, tailored just for you.
And before you post on xda again please read the rules and guidelines first.

Click my sig, i got hundreds of cabs.

I know the OP asked when he could have searched...
But i am in the same boat and was also wondering what everyone is using. His question (and the replies with apps in the sigs) is going to make my life better too
So thanks OP for asking a disliked but useful question....

Dillsnik said:
asking a disliked but useful question....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for the 10^10000000000th time.

well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.

Signal to noise ratio, man. The fewer redundant threads, the fewer months it takes someone to get the same knowledge and tools from xda forums for their phone.
I had no problem answering his question (hell I spent countless hours designing a website to accommodate people in his shoes) and I'm sorry if I came off as bitter but the rules make sense to the people who made the rules and to me and especially to those reading the forums on their phones with a browser or RSS.
Think of Slashdot. There by default you wouldn't see things like this as they would get moderated below the default threshold. If you're so inclined, you can modify the threshold up or down or order the posts in various directions. That makes Slashdot a lot better than it used to be before they coded that. But wouldn't it be nice if XDA could continue to get away without needing the forum equivalent of that kind of system if people would just post properly and when newcomers do not that they are advised to check the rules (and, in this case, their questions get answered too)?
And yes, because of this thread a bunch of people are getting cabs they didn't have from various sigs and now that this is turning into a debate a lot more people will get cabs. But would you not agree now that we are both right? Or do you truly not mind the boards being flooded with the same questions the wiki and searching satisfies? Not to mention spam and people trying to sell their phones. Signal to noise ratio.
Doug

Dillsnik said:
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think for some it's just a matter of frustration. I've been guilty of it myself, and got my hand slapped by the mods in Q&A for an inappropriate flame. Speaking for myself, I first joined a little over a year ago and read everything available. This allowed me to avoid asking questions that had already been answered. I'd hazard to guess that the "ask first and search later" approach is viewed by some as intellectually lazy. I can also see the other side that you point out. This site can be very intimidating and some people may just not know what to look for -- especially if they're new to WinMo. I've now adopted a no-flame approach (don't want to get slapped again). I'm certainly no expert, but I occasionally can provide an answer or suggestion, even if it's nothing other than providing a link to the appropriate thread. I figure it's the least I can do for all the great help I've received here.

d0ugie said:
Signal to noise ratio, man.
Doug
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.

Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks for backing me up. Heh, the Dude.
Glad you got good use out of the site! And guess what, you can get even more out of it because I got your default rings (HTC's and MS's) in the first paragraph of section 9, notifications.
Doug

@D0ugie
First off, i didn't think your reply was too negative. You just pointed out that people should search first and ask later, which i agree with. I think in my mind it's the level of grey that exists with the "search first" motto that is debatable. I have spent a LOT of time in some instances searching for a needle in a haystack, sometimes in fear of knowing that if i pose a new thread for a quick answer i might get flamed for it. And there are times when i asked before i probably should have (had one of those the other day) and felt like an idiot for it. And then there are the times where i was looking for something but maybe didn't even know it, and had someone else ask it and be like, wow that is exactly what i wanted to know. And then there are still the times where i asked a Q and wasn't sure if it was a good question and whether or not i'd even get a reply, and had a huge discussion evolve because of it and lots of people glad i did ask.
Obviously, the repeat of the same question over and over can make it harder to find the BEST answers, but sometimes i will search and not find that right thread and then someone points me to it and i am like, that just saved me SO much unnecessary searching, THANK YOU.
The bottom line though is i love this community and, in general, everyone here is amazing and so helpful and giving. I feel lucky to be a part of it and wish i was a better developer and had more to contribute.

Why So Serious?

meth0dGSX said:
Why So Serious?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@you lol. Perfect time to add that
@OP You could search the Raphael software/Diamond Themes, Applications, and Software/Developement & Hacking which are sections specially made for app posting.
EDITED, sorry if I offended anyone.

Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny i was looking for the Dude trying to get a little Time of from XDA and accidentally used the Google XDA search. This was the only result.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825531964825142534%3Acqr2sjirilw&q=the+big+lebowski&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I didn't know that until i accidentally searched for it.
Well for those in the Dark here's the Short Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqtgfjkB6Pg
Please delete me when the fun's gotten out of it, but at least XDA should get back two search results from now on, on The Big Lebowksi
In two weeks:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...esult&cd=1&q=Noonski+the+big+lebowski&spell=1
Should give you at least one result on finding out my true identity.
A few posts deleted, that is already more then any of us would have wanted on a Forum meant to harbour information.
Don't Flame a man trying to show you the light of XDA, it attracts to much attention of Moderators even when they are trying not to.

If you go to my 4shared, you can find pretty much any application that will do whatever you want on your WinMo based phone.

referring to cuting my right to reply

referring to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=472183
i just wanted to say i didnt mean to complain officially i was just angry.
over one day waiting for reply - and that was after a few days of search specially here
i will not be like the-equinoxe and reply with his word OR to his comments
actually i was expecting some thing contains my anger . with a little politely replying
i consider this site the most important site for PPC that what made me angry , also i saw a few posts asking seriously for help with no satisfied answer
sorry i didnt think that i have no right to get answer
also i want to add that when i know how to help in some problems i do

dody said:
referring to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=472183
i just wanted to say i didnt mean to complain officially i was just angry.
over one day waiting for reply - and that was after a few days of search specially here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
take a look at this page http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=427531&page=18
i've been waiting for answer there
all we can do is just patient.
and if u still get no answer, u can also up your thread/post
also try to search for the answer here or google (it could be somebody knows the answer out there).

If you have a problem you can pm a moderator. This section is for questions and answers, not a blog or commentary. Therefore this thread is being closed. Quit re-opening up this topic or you WILL get a ban.

there's no point in complaining. people are doing their best.
as ingerasu said, all you can do is wait. not all questions have straight answers.. and believe it or not we don't spend 24 hours in front of the computer waiting for you to have a problem.
please stop flooding the Q&A section with new threads. it is pointless.
there's no point in further discussion. if anyone knows the answer to your problem, you will get it. but there are NO promises.
I will close this thread. refer all further questions about this to the About XDA-Developers section.

dody said:
referring to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=472183
i just wanted to say i didnt mean to complain officially i was just angry.
over one day waiting for reply - and that was after a few days of search specially here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got your 1st reply within 44 minutes, there are 1440 minutes in a day, so you are a factor 32+ off..
i will not be like the-equinoxe and reply with his word OR to his comments
actually i was expecting some thing contains my anger . with a little politely replying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your demanding tone required another approach.
If you don't like the reply of a mod: PM him/her, don't start provoking by opening yet another complaining thread..
i consider this site the most important site for PPC that what made me angry , also i saw a few posts asking seriously for help with no satisfied answer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yups, that happens, we all have questions and sometimes there are no answers. Sometimes the answers have been given countless times.
But keep in mind this is a development Forum, it's not a helpdesk, it is a place where developers gather (all volunteers). We al had to learn, we all had to search, I personally have read thousands of threads, and still don't know everything, so I am still learning (most of us are).
If there is no answer we try to find a solution ourselves.
That is what I meant with being pro-active instead of complaining.
EqX

Do we really need thread Nazis right now?

This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.

I think everyone that replies should encourage people to search for themselves and put things in the proper forums.
I know it falls on deaf ears as most people want to be spoon fed - it is just to much work to read 30 pages of a thread to understand how something works - they just want the short answer. Then they complain when they miss a step and break something.

I agree. It seems like they just started recently. Ive had my phone since launch and it hasnt been like this. It does get annoying to see dumb questions but most on here its our first android phone ( backflip and aria didnt really cut it).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.

gunnyman said:
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

ashoooo said:
If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL 10chars

gunnyman said:
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do notice the large amount of people that seem to ask questions that have already been covered or start cloned threads that do not need repeated. You could view it as overly eager people who want to jump into the community before getting to know it or as people to lazy to do a search and/or read some existing threads.
Either way, I always felt ignoring the post seems to be a better option than making a negative comment. I think you are correct in saying this does not "foster a growing community."
Do keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to search for the correct answer or how to word a question when you are new to a subject. Back in my first few weeks of XDA on my old tilt, I felt a bit bombarded by new terminology and confusing tutorials. More experienced members should be able to determine if an OP is partialy ignorant or just plain lazy. I say when in doubt, ignore it.

Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I think another factor is that just now many people are just being introduced to smart phones. And that in turn probably is causing many new forum users to come on board. I mean new to forums, period. So they may not know the methods, and protocols expected.
It's interesting that I see in many forums that some people will expend more effort griping or castigating someone than it would take to just answer the question, or ignore the post/thread if it is one that doesn't interest them.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?

ewingr said:
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.

Shovelhead84 said:
In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I put them on ignore so I don't say something banworthy to them. It's the best form of self moderation for me.

I understand your point, but having the developement section tampered with unnecessary threads hampers its readability. And to many it is fundamental to keep up with multiple threads in there.
I'm not the kind of person that goes around bashing new users, but I did notice an increase in such threads lately, and although "thread nazis" can be just as annoying, don't forget there's no personal gain for them in it: they're just trying to keep the forum as clean and readable as possible.
I mean, there is a reason to have a Q&A section: using it would actually make it resourceful for newcomers while keeping developement clean.

I actually would say there haven't been many "thread nazis" in the Captivate forums. I read development for the most part and there are MANY questions (hell half of them start with [Q] that have NOTHING to do with development, people just want a question answered for them) that just belong in Q&A.
Most of the people (most, not all) tell people that they are in the wrong section but usually still provide the answer in hopes of letting the thread die. asking how a command works in adb does not count as captivate-specific android development.
it's important to remind people that the development section should be left for DEVELOPING android on the phone or TESTING new developments on the phone (or thinktanks and the occasional request for apps that would have to be dev'd to get functional)

Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate

In my begginings in this forum I'm ashamed to admit that I acted like one too. But now what I do is when I see an out of place thread I reply very succinctly almost bordering on a terse response and then I suggest the Q&A section.
I then proceed to answer as many questions as I can for 5 min in an effort to make the Q&A section the best it can be and not clutter the rest of the sections.

boborone said:
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find the search function works very well.
As for not liking references to google - I don't see the problem - OK, maybe you were looking for more specific information, but like all things, likes of forums is suggestive. So why not use google, search for Android forums, then pick the ones you like.
So many questions are answered by using google but no one tries that, so unless someone says "I have tried google, and only find X - but I want Y" then a response that says "try Google" is not out of line.

My $0.02 has always been this ...
We were all noobs once. When I was a noob I had enough sense to spend time and effort rooting around XDA to learn about my new (at the time) device before I started to ask questions.
Whether it's here, or on any other message board in cyberspace, that is the standard level of expectation that the senior members of the forum have. Experienced members want to help people and often spend a lot of time adding their experience to the forum, but they also want the new members to try to help themselves first. When they see someone ask a question that's answered in a 'sticky' at the top of the page or one or two posts below on the first page, it can be amazingly frustrating, and as others have said, it unnecessarily clutters up the forum.
So yes, sometimes people are harsh. Personally, if it at least looks like someone has tried to find and answer but can't figure something out, I'm always happy to help. Those who make their very first XDA post a question that has been asked and answered many times will get a 'search is a beautiful thing' response from me with a link to the post where the answer is. It's a subtle jab, yes, but at the same time the poster gets an answer. It's not meant to be a 'Thread Nazi'.
Hopefully that nudges them down the path of looking first and not expecting to be spoon fed everything, and to the realization that the forum doesn't exist simply to be a place to pop in and ask a question and go. Every time I pick up a new device and move to a new forum I see a ton of this ... one hit wonders that you never see again.

I I don't have a problem with that at all.
But what value does "hey you should have posted that somewhere else dumbass" provide. especially in "Dev"
I mean General is the catch all
Q&A is kind of basic
Themes and Apps are self explanatory.
I see dev section as the "hey I wanna break stuff" department. If the answer to a question could break stuff I say it's a dev question.

I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.

smokestack76 said:
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.

zelendel said:
Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this rocks!!! I guess my talks with a few people worked Glad to see ya here
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

What about an SGS 4G Facebook page?

It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me

In theory it sounds great. However people will not post there for reason they dont post in proper sections here.
The real issue is this, the community is divided. I left the Optimus V because Virgins coverage sucks for me. I really wish I could have kept the phone and plan and the main reason is the community. At AC I swear the people there help everybody. Even if it is a question already asked. Somebody will pipe up and offer a link.
Im guilty as charged in attacking a n00b for being stupid. However witht eh cost of the Optimus V and the extremely cheap plan many people was buying the phone to tether and have cheap internet. And Most of those people were clueless as to what the hell they were doing. In most cases a friend told them about the phone and plan and how easy it was to root and start tethering. As a end user you dont want those people creating issues for your service. So if your rude and refuse to help they go away.
But right now I can point you to at the minimum of five threads where the community is helping the noobs and letting the devs do their thing. If a dev needs to address something they do. Otherwise the community answers questions. The biggest reason for this is changelogs, instructions, and all that stuff is never deleted just updated. Even if the rom has evolved to a new level. The old info is still posted so people can find out what changed in the various releases. Plus even after somebody asks the same question ten others have asked patience is exhibited and answers are given.
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.They are looking to get a answer for the problem at hand. Most of them will go away if pointed in the right direction. However when people start piling on flaming them for not searching properly it just creates more spam in the thread and drives them away. Then you have people that talk major **** about how xda is a bunch of arrogant f*cktards.

Plenty of people do help in my observations. Im new and signed up only to help people. Answered a 'noob' question before making this post, amd I was nice about it too.
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
If the answer to a simple and eady to answer question is out there and can be found by a search, and someone asks the question anyways after being told that is what they should do in yhe futurethat is laziness, not ignorance. And getting on their case is not arrogance, some of those asking questions have high enough post counts here, they should of learned how to make their own way by now.
I should also add that I have no programming experience, and have only been using a smartphone for 3 months. Yet I have never had to ask a question about how to install a rom or fix a brick. Because I searched for the answer, and everyone else should too.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

eollie said:
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.

Holocene said:
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question. Yesterday I searched for something I had seen posted the search results..stated they were updated 10 minutes before I had searched. How is that even possible?
FBis251 said:
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Not every person that comes here for answers is a dev or wants to be a dev.

@ eollie: I have a great idea... quit talking about it and writing these long unnecessary posts and start helping. Lead by example! Maybe others will follow suit since you seem to think people don't help others on here. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with these LONG posts?

eollie said:
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I generally bookmark posts that contain information relevant to my interests that I may not be able to commit to memory at the time. Yes, some get changed but most are because the information is wrong or outdated. Another post nearby most likely holds updated info.
eollie said:
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

Holocene said:
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spent three hours tearing apart a rom to find a wallpaper used on the lockscreen. Im not a dev nor am I a themer but even doing a search for where lockscreen wallpaper is located kept directing me to widgetlocker and those types of apps. A week ago I would have just posted here in hopes somebody would point me in the proper direction. Instead I just sat in front of my computer for three hours because I didnt want to deal with the responses.
Your smartass response...well its not so smart.
@lumin30 dude seriously if you dont like my posts ignore them. Im sorry the community here is absolutely horrendous in helping people. Prime example is the post I have quoted above. Instead of taking what I was saying and using it logically he took it literally. I wasnt asking where I was using a simple example of what I have seen here. Then he even attempted to insult me with his last comment.
Im not here to make friends or enemies. Im here lookig for ways to better my android experience. When that experience is hampered because some tool wants to be a internet badass it pisses me off. Especially when in the process of berating somebody they prove how ignorant they really are. Most people that post here are human beings once in a while you will get a spam bot but 99% of the time you are dealing with a human. Some are old enough to be your grandparents others your teenage brother/sister.

POST REMOVED for sake of preventing a four paragraph response!

wow.....
i really could say something towards this thread for you guys to feed on, but i'll just shut my mouth and just say one more word.
wow.....
now what's the title of this thread again? sorry, but reading all this here made me forget. and sorry for yet another 4 paragraph response.
sent from within pure darkness

eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
MY RESPONSE: OK

lumin30 said:
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you just cant let it go can you? I apologized to him and he has accepted it. See adults work things out and accept mistakes and apologies. I guess a child like you just wants to keep the friction and tension high so you appear to be superior. Regarding my not following my own advise in ignoring people..I find your posts in response to me very amusing. You just can help yourself and not respond. Your like a woman arguing to get the last word in. You just cant help it. I would say Im look forward to your response but honestly its not fun anymore you are too predictable.
lumin will post within the next ten minutes rebuting me.

Your name calling, swearing, and the chauvanistic and defamatory comments you just made speak on your behalf. Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

Holocene said:
Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im glad you feel that way. I have seen it first hand tho. You even did it in your initial post to me. Tried to insult me via your last comment. Good god its like people cant see past their own nose. Im guilty as charged in smashing noobs with a bat. But Ive never claimed to not do it. I just think sometimes it is not necessary.
Holocene said:
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
High road exit was before you posted to me initially. Getting back now will be a long process or winding mountainous roads. Dont forget to enjoy the view along the way tho. There is some awesome put out points to take pictures.

as much as i'd hate to say this, but i see this thread getting deleted before the weekend.
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device. trust me, i've checked the mytouch 3g slide forums (my fiance's device) and the galaxy tab 10.1 forums (my next device) and have yet to see what goes on here on those forums. seems to me MOST people with this device are nothing but spoiled little teenagers that are spoon fed all the time. it's no wonder the devs are dropping like flies. if i was a dev, i would leave also. sorry for ranting on your thread itz, but felt this was the best place to put in my 2 cents worth.
sent from within pure darkness

droidmyst said:
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mentioned it before but a lot of people ignore wikis because they are typically out of date. In the beginning people will update them regularly and then just stop. However after some time looking around I can say the SGS4G wiki is just the opposite. Tons of info and for the most part easy to navigate. Which brings up another problem with wikis. The ability to navigate it easily and endless loops of redirects. Again the SGS4G doesnt appear to suffer from that.
Maybe instead of the sticky posts with thread links we could get a single thread with wiki links. That way info is updated and people are spending an hour navigating through search results within one thread. In my mind this makes sense just putting it in print is eluding me.

Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

vgcraze said:
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact it is personal and exposes peoples real identity is what makes it awesome. Most of the people here wouldnt act the way they did if they were made to use real name and such. Being anonymous has so many advantages and disadvantages.

Can I just point out that I started a thread with a guide to flashing and is intended to help the devs buffer the questions to that thread
Sent from my Kindle Fire using the XDA premium app

itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum?
Sent from me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
back on the actual topic, since it has once again been derailed by the self-appointed thread police....
Devs are not leaving us only for the reasons you stated. Some of that may be part of it, but it's not the sum total...
As for Facebook page... feel free to create one, and I wish you the best of luck.. as one of those 'weird' people who doesn't use Facebook, i won't be coming to visit it...