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The term "privacy" means many things in different contexts. Different people, cultures, and nations have a wide variety of expectations about how much privacy a person is entitled to or what constitutes an invasion of privacy. Information or data privacy refers to the evolving relationship between technology and the legal right to, or public expectation of, privacy in the collection and sharing of data about one's self. Privacy concerns exist wherever uniquely identifiable data relating to a person or persons are collected and stored, in digital form or otherwise. In some cases these concerns refer to how data is collected, stored, and associated. In other cases the issue is who is given access to information. Other issues include whether an individual has any ownership rights to data about them, and/or the right to view, verify, and challenge that information.
This post does not intend to address the many definitions of privacy or the many technical means of protecting and invading one's privacy. There are already many posts addressing this aspect and brief search can turn up lots of answers for you.
This post is only intended to help the least technically savvy among us in maintaining some small amount of data security and privacy without getting very technical about things. It was derived from many diverse sources on basic privacy.
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Recently, a friend handed me his phone and asked me to take a picture. “What’s the password?” I asked. “I don’t have one,” he said. I think I must have had a puzzled look on my face as, I suppose, I tend to grimace when someone I know tells me they’re choosing not to take one of the very simplest steps for privacy protection, allowing anyone to look through their phone with the greatest of ease, to see whichever messages, photos, and sensitive apps they please.
So, this post is for you, big guy with no password on your Galaxy/iPhone/Nexus/whatever, and for you, girl who stays signed into GMail on your boyfriend’s computer, and for you, person walking down the street having a loud conversation on your mobile phone about your recent doctor’s visit of that odd ailment you have. These are the really, really simple things you could be doing to keep casual intruders from invading your privacy.
1 Password protect your phone! It is one of the simplest things you can do to most devices (smartphones, tablets, etc.) with the least amount of effort. Many people tell me it is “annoying” to take the two seconds to type in a password each time before using the phone. Gimme a break, everyone!. Choosing not to password protect these devices is the digital equivalent of leaving your home or car unlocked. If you’re lucky, no one will take advantage of you. Or maybe the contents will be ravaged and your favorite speakers and/or secrets stolen. If you’re not paranoid enough, spend some time reading entries in Reddit, where many Internet users go to discuss issues of the heart. A good percentage of the entries start, “I know I shouldn't have, but I peeked at my gf’s phone and read her text messages, and…” Oh, and before you pick a password like "123456" or "password" do yourself a big favor and visit the Worst passwords of all time web page! No laughing allowed!
2 Turn on 2-step authentication in GMail (that is, if you use GMail, of course). The biggest conclusion you can derive from the epic hack of Wired’s Mat Honan is that it probably wouldn't have happened if he’d turned on “2-step verification” in GMail. This simple little step turns your device into a security fob — in order for your GMail account to be accessed from a new device, a person (you?) needs a code that’s sent to your phone. This means that even if someone gets your password somehow, they won’t be able to use it to sign into your account from a strange computer. (How it works - video) Google says that millions of people use this tool, and that “thousands more enroll each day.” Be one of those people! Yes, it can be annoying if your phone battery dies or if you’re traveling. Of course, you can temporarily turn it off when you’re going to be abroad or phone-less. Alternately, you can leave it permanently turned off, and increase your risk of getting epically hacked. Which do you like better?
3 Put a Google Alert on your name! This is an incredibly easy way to stay on top of what’s being said about you online. It takes less than a minute to do. Go here: http://www.google.com/alerts; anyone can do it easily. Google Alerts are email updates of the latest relevant Google results (web, news, etc.) based on your queries. Enter your name, and variations of your name, with quotation marks around it. Boom. You’re done. Now, that wasn't too tough, was it? I didn't think so. :-]
4 Sign out of your Facebook / Twitter / GMail / etc. account! Do it each time you are done with your emailing, social networking, tweeting, and other forms of general time-wasting. Not only will this reduce the amount of tracking of you as you surf the Web, this also prevents someone who later sits down at your computer from loading one of these up and getting snoopy. This becomes much more important when you’re using someone else’s or a public computer. Yes, people actually forget to do this, with terrible outcomes. Incidentally, if you have the Chrome browser on your PC and you use “incognito” (Ctrl Shift N) or Internet Explorer and you use “InPrivate” (Ctrl Shift P) you will automatically be logged out when you close the window, and no cookies or passwords will be stored. Pretty cool, right?
5 Don’t give out your email address, phone number, or zip code when asked. Hey, if some scary (or weird) looking dude in a bar asked for your phone number, you'd say no, wouldn't you? But when the person asking is a uniform-wearing employee at a local store, many people hand over their digits without hesitation. Stores often use this info to help profile you and your purchase. Yes, you can say no. If you feel badly about it, just pretend the employee is that scary looking dude!
6 Change Your Facebook settings to “Friends Only.” I really thought that by now, with the many Facebook privacy stories which have been published, everyone would have their accounts locked down and boarded up like a cheap Florida house before a hurricane. Not so. There are still lots and lots of people on Facebook who are as exposed on the internet as Katy Perry at that water park. Go to your Facebook privacy settings and make sure the “default privacy” setting isn't set to "public"! If it’s set to “Custom” make sure you know and understand any “Networks” you’re sharing with.
7 Use unique passwords for every site you go to. This sounds really difficult but - surprise - it is quite simple! Password managers come in many sizes and flavors these days. They will generate complex passwords and remember them for you. Protect yourself against phishing scams, online fraud, and malware. Many of these apps have versions you can use on your computer as well as on your tablet and phone. Some are free and some cost money. Your choice. Here, let me show you how simple it is to find a bunch of them: http://bit.ly/V4xehO! As I said, there are many - the one I use is this one here.
8 Clear your browser history and cookies on a regular basis. Do you remember the last time you did that? If you just shrugged, consider changing your browser settings so it is automatically cleared every session. Go to the “privacy” setting in your Browser’s “Options.” Tell it to “never remember your history.” This will reduce the amount you’re tracked online. Consider one of the several browser add-ons, like TACO, to further reduce tracking of your online behavior.
9 Read the posted privacy policy. Boring, isn't it? Every web site has one and likely for a good reason. Have you ever seen the XDA Privacy Policy? Yup, that's just what I thought!
In conclusion, here's one from the Wall Street Journal's Law Blog.
As I said, this is not a technical article but it may make you think if it does the job right.
Sixth Circuit: No Expectation of Privacy in Cell Phone GPS Data
Drug dealers, beware. Your pay-as-you-go phones probably have GPS. And, according to a federal appeals court in Cincinnati, police can track the signal they emit without a warrant.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit ruled that the Drug Enforcement Administration committed no Fourth Amendment violation in using a drug runner’s cellphone data to track his whereabouts. The DEA obtained a court order to track Melvin Skinner’s phone, after finding his number in the course of an investigation of a large-scale drug trafficking operation.
The DEA didn’t know much about Mr. Skinner or what he looked like. They knew him as Big Foot, the drug mule, and they suspected he was communicating with the leader of the trafficking operation via a secret phone that had been registered under a false name. Agents used the GPS data from his throw-away phone to track him, and he was arrested in 2006 at a rest stop near Abilene, Texas, with a motorhome filled with more than 1,100 pounds of marijuana.
Mr. Skinner was convicted of drug trafficking and conspiracy to commit money laundering. On appeal, he argued that the data emitted from his cell phone couldn’t be used because the DEA failed to obtain a warrant for it, in violation of the Fourth Amendment.
The question in the case was whether Mr. Skinner had a reasonable expectation of privacy in the data his phone emitted. It’s a question that several courts are wrestling with. Federal law enforcement authorities, as in this case, say that investigators don’t need search warrants to gather such information.
Justice Department lawyers argued in a court brief that “a suspect’s presence in a publicly observable place is not information subject to Fourth Amendment protection.”
Judge John M. Rogers, writing for the majority, agreed:
There is no Fourth Amendment violation because Skinner did not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the data given off by his voluntarily procured pay-as-you-go cell phone. If a tool used to transport contraband gives off a signal that can be tracked for location, certainly the police can track the signal. The law cannot be that a criminal is entitled to rely on the expected untrackability of his tools. Otherwise, dogs could not be used to track a fugitive if the fugitive did not know that the dog hounds had his scent. A getaway car could not be identified and followed based on the license plate number if the driver reasonably thought he had gotten away unseen. The recent nature of cell phone location technology does not change this. If it did, then technology would help criminals but not the police.
He was joined by Judge Eric L. Clay. Judge Bernice B. Donald, who concurred but disagreed with the majority’s Fourth Amendment reasoning, said the DEA couldn’t have figured out the identity of Mr. Skinner, the make and model of his vehicle or the route he would be driving without the GPS data from his phone.
“It is not accurate…to say that police in this case acquired only information that they could have otherwise seen with the naked eye,” she wrote. “While it is true that visual observation of Skinner was possible by any member of the public, the public would first have to know that it was Skinner they ought to observe.”
A lawyer for Mr. Skinner didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
Comments? Suggestions? Ideas? They are all welcome.
Flame wars (relating to privacy or otherwise) are not. :-]
[GUIDE] Some incredibly simple things to protect YOUR PRIVACY - Part 2
Cameras on smart phones, getting better with each generation of new devices, allow people to take pictures or videos on the go and transmit these images by e-mail or post them to the Web. With phone in hand, unexpected sightings of celebrities can be snared with a flick of the wrist (turning the celled into the 'snaparazzi'), as can chance encounters with pretty girls or gorgeous sunsets. Their impact can be great for both good and evil.
Not too long ago two men lit themselves on fire in protest. But only one of them is credited with starting a revolution.
The difference between the two? Mobile phones recorded Mohamed Bouazizi, a Tunisian fruit vendor, as he set himself ablaze in despair over his economic plight. Those videos kicked off the wave of 2011 Arab Spring demonstrations.
Abdesslem Trimech, the other man, fell into relative obscurity. (Source: The Mobile Wave: How Mobile Intelligence Will Change Everything by Michael Saylor)
Back in 2005, a retail fraud investigator for one of the larger chain stores said that while he was still unable to capture a usable image of a credit card from even the then newer camera phones, he has been able to grab readable images of all account and routing info from the personal checks customers have produced at the checkout. Check writers, he says, have a tendency to "lay out" their check books on the writing counter at the registers and keep them stationary enough to obtain a clear image of all the personal information printed on the check. He has also tested this theory with camera-equipped palm tops and has found that with the adjustable resolution he has been able to get a pretty clear picture, with zoom, from a reasonable distance away (3-5 feet). So at this point in time, as phone cameras get better and better, your credit card might still be secure but your personal check might not be.
So, what personal information does your mobile phone reveal about you? Do you know? Do you care?
It seems that many people are slowly becoming more aware of the pitfalls and the mobile-privacy concerns.
According to reports, 54% of cell phone users in the U.S. have decided not to install an app once they discovered how much of their personal information it would access. (The amount of sensitive info an app can access typically is indicated by the "permissions" the app requests, listed on its information page.)
Also, nearly one-third of mobile app users report uninstalling an app from their phone because they learned it was collecting personal information they didn't wish to share.
We need to first be aware and also be willing to actively take steps in order to protect our own privacy. Children of all ages need to be carefully taught as well.
Okay, but what about students? Do students have an expectation of privacy on their cell phones while at school?
The short answer to this in the U.S. is a qualified yes. Whether educators have the authority to search the contents of student cell phones depends on a lot of factors. The key issue in this is the standard of reasonableness. According to New Jersey v. T.L.O (1985) students are protected by the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which protects citizens against unreasonable searches and seizures. In T.L.O., the Supreme Court goes on to say that the standard that law enforcement officers must reach to conduct a search (probable cause that a crime has been committed), is not required of educators. In general, the standard applied to school officials is whether the search is “justified at its inception and reasonable in scope.” (See When can educators search student cell phones)
What information should children be taught NEVER to reveal?
The suggestions depend on their age. Common 'wisdom' suggests the following:
Elementary School Kids should NEVER share (their own or another’s):
Age
Full Name
Address
Phone Number
Name of School
Password Information
Images (with possible exception depending on parental involvement)
Middle School Kids should NEVER share (their own or another’s):
Age
Full Name
Address
Phone Number
Name of School
Password Information (even to friends)
Most Images (At this age, kids get into social networking and will be sharing images via cell phones and digital cameras. Parents should focus on limiting the images their children share online)
High School Kids should NEVER share (their own or another’s):
Address
Phone Number
Password Information (even to friends)
Offensive or Sexually Suggestive Images or Messages
If you managed to get this far there must have been something that concerned you.
Congratulations! Learning more about privacy is the first step.
Here's one more little trick you might try since you spent all the time getting here. :highfive:
Want to have an unlisted phone but would not like to have to pay monthly for it? Ask your phone company to replace your last name with another name - your grandmother’s maiden name or something that you never use. This will cost a few dollars, but works very well. Many phone companies will do this for you. No monthly fees for having your number unlisted and as soon as you hear someone calling you Mr. {your grandmother’s maiden name}, you can either block the number or request to be put on the company’s Do Not Call List or <fill in the blank of your choice>. Note that Caller ID takes its information from the phone book, so you will be identified as Mr. {your grandmother’s maiden name} on Caller ID units of people you call unless you turn this feature off.
Another helpful addition to the listing (available in some areas) is: "(data line)", meaning that the phone number is connected to a fax or computer and not to a live person. Check with your local company if this option is available.
Some time ago, in a concerted effort, multiple ACLU affiliates filed a total of 381 Freedom of Information Act (FoIA) requests in 32 states, asking local law enforcement agencies to disclose how they are using mobile phone location data.
The FoIA request in North Carolina struck gold: a copy of an official Department of Justice flyer, dated August 2010 that explains exactly what data is retained by Verizon Wireless, T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint, and Sprint division Nextel. There's an enhanced copy on the ACLU website.
The eye-openers:
All of the mobile phone companies keep details about the location of cell towers used by every phone, for a year or longer.
All of the mobile phone companies keep records about voice calls and text messages received and sent for a year or longer. Verizon stores the contents of every text message for three to five days. (The others don't keep the text.)
IP session information -- tying your phone to an IP address -- is kept for a year by Verizon and 60 days on Sprint and Nextel.
IP destination information -- which IP addresses you connected to -- is stored for 90 days at Verizon and 60 days on Sprint and Nextel.
The ACLU is gathering information on what steps local police have to go through in order to acquire that stored data: warrants, formal requests, emergencies, possibly even informal procedures. They're also trying to figure out how law enforcement agencies share the data and how long it is retained.
There doesn't appear to be any sort of uniform nationwide policy or widespread judicial precedent.
The ACLU is also looking at law enforcement requests to "identify all of the cell phones at a particular location" and "systems whereby law enforcement agents are notified whenever a cell phone comes within a specific geographic area."
If you have been concerned about privacy and location data being leaked sporadically on your iOS or Android or Windows Phone device it seems you have been looking at very, very small potatoes!
Comments? Suggestions? Ideas? They are all welcome.
Flame wars (relating to privacy or otherwise) are not. :-]
[ Another place holder ]
[GUIDE] Some Incredibly Simple Things To Protect Your Privacy!
If you find this thread helpful then do not forget to
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Submit thread as News Tip
If you find a particular post is helpful, please click on the Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks
Thanks ny_limited - I just did all these!
Cheers
Tom
Szczepanik said:
If you find this thread helpful then do not forget to
Rate: *****
Submit thread as News Tip
If you find a particular post is helpful, please click on the Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks
Thanks ny_limited - I just did all these!
Cheers
Tom
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Appreciate the kind works, Tom, but.. This thread is for the non-technical ones among us. I suspect you are more technical than I am thus you hardly qualify to be here.
Thanks for the tips.
For extra protection, there's quite a few security apps on the market that will lock whatever information sensitive apps you want locked, usually with the same security options that your phone offers i.e. Password, PIN, pattern etc.
Just search "app lock" in the play store, for those interested.
--> dominating your screen from my t-mobile gs3, powered by: FreeGS3 R7 "Resurrection"
Complacency is one thing that most if not all internet/mobile/computing user have. I always advocate "Do not remember my password" while browsing from any form of medium to my friends. You never know when you will get compromised. Just leave your computer for a moment, your friend with malicious intent can extract all your private information with a simple and obtainable usb trick..
Even the thing most personal to me, my mobile phone, has no sites on "Log me in always" checked.
I hope websites would leave the box unchecked, as sites I visit always encourage user to have that option enabled. E.g. Ebay, Facebook..
Post # 2 has been updated just in case you need more reading material.
ny_limited said:
Post # 2 has been updated just in case you need more reading material.
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like 1 better :good:
coohdeh said:
like 1 better :good:
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Agreed. I guess I really didn't need the 3rd placeholder after all.
---
Spes in virtute est. (via XDA app)
This article is just over a year old but still makes good reading if you haven't seen it yet.
Few people would willingly carry around a device that tracks their movements, records their conversations, and keeps tabs on all the people they talk to. But, according to documents recently released by the American Civil Liberties Union, cell phone companies are doing all of that -- and may be passing the information on to law enforcement agencies.
"Retention Periods of Major Cellular Service Providers," an August 2010 document produced by the Department of Justice, outlines the types of information collected by various cell phone companies, as well as the amount of time that they retain it. On some levels, this is reassuring: Verizon (VZ) is the only company that holds on to text message content, and they erase it after 3-5 days. However, text message details -- the information about who you text with -- is retained for a minimum of a year, with some companies keeping it for up to seven years. In other words, that little back-and-forth you had with Bernie Madoff back in 2007 will be on the books until 2014.
Complete article is here
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The privacy buck stops with the user
Yes, those terms of service are annoying. They're usually too complicated and too long, and users who want a certain mobile app will be inclined to click 'next' without actually reading the fine print, even if they're worried about what rights they're signing away. Still, "cellphone users need to take responsibility for their own data," maintains Steve Durbin, global VP of the Information Security Forum.
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Cellphone and smartphone users have a love-hate relationship with mobile apps. While they love the functionality and enhanced user experience they bring to the table, clearly many hate the perceived privacy intrusions, suggests a newly released report from the Pew Internet & American Life Project.
More than half -- 54 percent -- of app users surveyed decided against installing a cellphone app when they discovered how much personal information they would need to share in order to use it. Thirty percent uninstalled an app that was already on their cellphone because they learned it was collecting personal information that they didn't wish to share.
Many cellphone users take additional steps to protect the personal data on their mobile devices, including backing up photos, contacts and other files -- tasks performed by 41 percent of those surveyed. Some 32 percent have cleared the browsing or search histories on their phone, and 19 percent have turned off the location-tracking feature due to privacy concerns.
Finally, 12 percent of cell owners say that another person has accessed their phone's contents in a way that made them feel that their privacy had been invaded.
The complete article was written by Erika Morphy and published in the E-Commerce Times in September.
i just know that you can monitor the keywords via google alerts
some useful information here. Thanks a lot!
More cell phone privacy notes
Police Searches of Cell Phones
You may have a legitimate expectation of privacy of the information stored in your cell phone, and so a search warrant may be needed before a police officer can look at your phone's data. However, an officer has the authority to search a cell phone when the search is "incident to an arrest." The search is deemed similar to an officer that searches a closed container on or near a person that he's arresting.
Traditional search warrant exceptions apply to the search of cell phones. Where the accessing of memory is a valid search incident to arrest, the court need not decide whether exigent circumstances also justify the officer's retrieval of the numbers from your cell phone. Police officers are not limited to search only for weapons or instruments of escape on the person being arrested. Rather, they may also, without any additional justification, look for evidence of the arrestee's crime on his person in order to preserve it for use at trial.
Illegally Intercepted Communications
Most people would think that public broadcasting of an illegally intercepted cell phone conversation would be illegal. Well, the US Supreme Court has found that (U.S.) the First Amendment allows an illegally intercepted cell phone conversation to be shared with others when the conversation involves matters of significant public interest. The lesson here is to be careful because technology has increased the chances that your cell phone conversations are being recorded and could be made public or used against you.
Cell Phone GPS Tracking
Although there are many advantages to cell phone GPS tracking, there are also privacy concerns. As most people carry their cell phone with them at all times, the ability is in place to track the exact movements of all individuals. Cell phone GPS could prove useful in saving lives during emergencies.
For these reasons the (U.S.) Federal Communications Commission (FCC) requires wireless network providers to give the cell phone GPS tracking location information for 911 calls that have been made from cell phones. This is known as E911. The law on E911 is fairly explicit. It allows carriers to provide tracking location information to third parties for E911 emergency calls only, however not under any other circumstances whatsoever without the consent of the cell phone owner. Recent court hearings have disallowed the requests of law enforcement agencies to obtain cell phone GPS tracking information from the cell phone companies for suspects in criminal investigations.
The complete article was written and published on Lawyers.com.
Instagram says it now has the right to sell your photos
Instagram said today that it has the perpetual right to sell users' photographs without payment or notification, a dramatic policy shift that quickly sparked a public outcry.
The new intellectual property policy, which takes effect on January 16, comes three months after Facebook completed its acquisition of the popular photo-sharing site. Unless Instagram users delete their accounts before the January deadline, they cannot opt out.
Under the new policy, Facebook claims the perpetual right to license all public Instagram photos to companies or any other organization, including for advertising purposes, which would effectively transform the Web site into the world's largest stock photo agency. One irked Twitter user quipped that "Instagram is now the new iStockPhoto, except they won't have to pay you anything to use your images."
"It's asking people to agree to unspecified future commercial use of their photos," says Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "That makes it challenging for someone to give informed consent to that deal."
The complete article is written by Declan McCullagh and published in c|net.
Thanks to FameWolf for the link!
Horrible Autoplay Video Ads Are Coming to Facebook
Facebook will unveil a new video ad product that will auto-play commercials upon arrival, executives told AdWeek's Jason del Ray. This most annoying addition, which will allow advertisers a chance to slap unsolicited videos all over the Facebook news feed, is expected to launch by April 2013, the sources say. And, to reiterate, yes, these will be the same variant of videos that pollute the ESPN.com homepage — the ones that start without you asking them to.
Facebook, which has been trying just about every kind of new ad it can this year, has not yet decided if these commercials will automatically play with or without sound. But in either case, you can bet they'll be a pain — and you can expect plenty of frustrated users. On the desktop version of Facebook, the vids will expand "out of the news feed into webpage real estate in both the left and right columns -- or rails -- of the screen," explains del Ray. Meaning: they will be everywhere. Also, for people who use a million tabs on older computers, imagine a ton of video playing over and over: slow-load city. Add a little audio in the mix and we can already see the confused masses looking for that one tab with the unwanted sound coming out of it. Oh, yeah, this is a really great idea, Facebook. As if you weren't full of those this week already.
The complete article is written by Rebecca Greenfield, published in The Atlatic Wire
ny_limited said:
Instagram said today that it has the perpetual right to sell users' photographs without payment or notification, a dramatic policy shift that quickly sparked a public outcry.
The new intellectual property policy, which takes effect on January 16, comes three months after Facebook completed its acquisition of the popular photo-sharing site. Unless Instagram users delete their accounts before the January deadline, they cannot opt out.
Under the new policy, Facebook claims the perpetual right to license all public Instagram photos to companies or any other organization, including for advertising purposes, which would effectively transform the Web site into the world's largest stock photo agency. One irked Twitter user quipped that "Instagram is now the new iStockPhoto, except they won't have to pay you anything to use your images."
"It's asking people to agree to unspecified future commercial use of their photos," says Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "That makes it challenging for someone to give informed consent to that deal."
The complete article is written by Declan McCullagh and published in c|net.
Thanks to FameWolf for the link!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Instagram has backed off the language in its new privacy and terms of service policies that set off a significant firestorm online. Instagram cofounder Kevin Systrom posted on the company’s blog under the title “Thank you, and we’re listening”. Whether you believe him or not you can read more about it at Forbes.
Happy New Year, everyone!
Enjoy the festivities!
Will see you all next year!
New 2013 CA laws affect online privacy, homeowners, schools
From protecting your online privacy to party buses, there are 750 new California (USA) laws taking effect in 2013.
The complete KABC-TV (Los Angeles) article of January 1, 2013 can be found here.
[USA] New laws keep employers out of worker social media accounts
Employers in Illinois and California cannot ask for usernames and passwords to the personal social media accounts of employees and job seekers under laws that took effect on Jan. 1.
Illinois Gov. Patrick Quinn in August signed legislation amending the State's 'Right to Privacy in the Workplace Act.'
California Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation adding the prohibitions to the State's Labor Code in September.
The two states join Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey and Delaware in implementing such privacy laws.
Full ComputerWorld article: http://bit.ly/118L2tM
Hello guys, this is a small article cum question thread. After reading please give me your views.
When we buy a phone and we start with our gmail id.
They forcefully sync all data, even the gallery (picasa).
I mean why is Google entering in our life so much..
They have every single detail. Contact , location, whereabouts, preferences, taste, when we get up/ sleep...
Every single data is with Google.
Now Google glass... Its too much interference...
I feel like being spy by a person name Google. Prove me wrong, I will be glad.
Before Android, I had Nokia phone. I never felt being spy every time.
I have spend lots of money on my Android phone but im feeling insecured every moment.
Why Google force all to sync the data/ why Google wants to enter in everyon's life?
Are we purchasing Android phones for being monitored 24x7?
Let me know your views too..
Thank you.
Disclaimer:
I am not an apple fan. I have shared experience and beyond this I don't have intension to degrade the goodwill of gaint Google.
Supporting links for this thread
http://m.firstpost.com/tech/how-to-stop-googlefbspyingyou-220138.html?page=1
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=imbkac40t38&desktop_uri=/watch?v=imbkac40t38
Endless....
We've all heard about the "big brother". Before the TV reality shows there was only books and stories about it, there were wars for power and world dominance. May be my words are too strong, but think about it - there are strong arguments in DBZo07's post, don't you think?
Google may be one of the reasons for the next World War. I am sure that there will be one - all of the major civilizations before us have disappeared for various reasons, most of them connected with war and the will of dominance. We will wipe ourselfs too or will become "human androids".
I think that we should think about what will be the next kind of terrorism? I doubt it will be for petrol, gold, money... it will be about information, communication, privacy - and Google are getting even more and more into our life, as DBZo07 have observed. It was only 8 years ago when for most of us smartphones were a joke and look now - hybrids, phonepads, padphones, tablets, docking stations, virtual HDD's (cloud storage)... Now can you leave without Viber, skype, facebook, gmail? No, you can't and if you could you will be searching for better replacements.
When you put all of the things it really seems too much. What if someone uses the information we share virtually each day? What if someone wants more than just money to share or store our information or to communicate with each other? Now they want our money, but tomorrow?
May be someone will want more from us tomorrow... may be we will start to sync our dreams for more efficient sleep time.
Or probably my arguments are nonsense and no one will let these thing happen. I hope so and I believe so - you should believe too
Yes it is bad, but just do like everybody disliking this state, deactivate all you can that allow google to "follow" you.
At the end, androïd is not linux, androïd is "google is watching you OS", so make all you can to hide yourself.
Maybe one day, we'll have a "pure" linux system for smartphones.
@mutha88 : that's what , we are forced to believe Google like God. Turning off auto sync may ease our mind. But still who knows about which data is being snatched with our data plan on all times in the very owned OS of Google. I still can appreciate Microsoft Windows, which is carring on from years after years still there is sense of personal private life being secured.
No doubt Google is an award winning innovative company but why getting personal to the extent of choking privacy.
On other hand, consumers are least concern about privacy now a days. Very trusted Microsoft is trying hard to penetrate phones and data stealer Google is having large pie of market share. It is we who made Google survive and in return we have loss of privacy.
@BombinBasta : yeah, but for development of any OS needs finance. Linux is free open source, hardly people donate. And Microsoft has enough money to carry on their development. Apple already charges too high for thier devices. Whereas Google... makes money from phones, market, various products and who knows what they make from every details of their users.
Seriously, as i heard from childgood that evil ends when they cross thier limits... will there be end of Google anyways!!! I wonder.
May be I'm wrong but their are no proper justifications from Google for interference.
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk HD
u cant be free of data collection by google...
even if u never sync ur data and use internet on ur android(even if it a vanila AOSP android ) there is code in that to give the data to google.
in todays age of information technology....information/data is everything...WHO HOLDS THE DATA...HOLDS THE POWER TO RULE THE WORLD...
DBZo07 said:
@mutha88 : that's what , we are forced to believe Google like God. Turning off auto sync may ease our mind. But still who knows about which data is being snatched with our data plan on all times in the very owned OS of Google. I still can appreciate Microsoft Windows, which is carring on from years after years still there is sense of personal private life being secured.
No doubt Google is an award winning innovative company but why getting personal to the extent of choking privacy.
On other hand, consumers are least concern about privacy now a days. Very trusted Microsoft is trying hard to penetrate phones and data stealer Google is having large pie of market share. It is we who made Google survive and in return we have loss of privacy.
@BombinBasta : yeah, but for development of any OS needs finance. Linux is free open source, hardly people donate. And Microsoft has enough money to carry on their development. Apple already charges too high for thier devices. Whereas Google... makes money from phones, market, various products and who knows what they make from every details of their users.
Seriously, as i heard from childgood that evil ends when they cross thier limits... will there be end of Google anyways!!! I wonder.
May be I'm wrong but their are no proper justifications from Google for interference.
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You act like Microsoft doesnt do the same thing. When ever you use any of their programs it is the same. Privacy is a moot point if you use the internet for anything. You would be amazed how many times your personal info is used. Use a Shopping card to get discounts? Tracked. Use a CC for anything? Tracked. Buy anything on line? Tracked. Use any social networks? Yup tracked again.
It is not just Google. If you trust MS so much then why not get a WP?
k2wl said:
u cant be free of data collection by google...
even if u never sync ur data and use internet on ur android(even if it a vanila AOSP android ) there is code in that to give the data to google.
in todays age of information technology....information/data is everything...WHO HOLDS THE DATA...HOLDS THE POWER TO RULE THE WORLD...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This information again shocking.. will there be a respect for privacy is a big question..
Is there any way that code being blocked ...
zelendel said:
You act like Microsoft doesnt do the same thing. When ever you use any of their programs it is the same. Privacy is a moot point if you use the internet for anything. You would be amazed how many times your personal info is used. Use a Shopping card to get discounts? Tracked. Use a CC for anything? Tracked. Buy anything on line? Tracked. Use any social networks? Yup tracked again.
It is not just Google. If you trust MS so much then why not get a WP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad.. Microsoft still a good sided. I'm not promoting Microsoft but everybody have used Windows and this hunger for data wasn't found, maybe Microsoft is too smart to do silently but there is a chance that it may or may not be true. Google openly does all stealing I mean who is going to held them!! We the users are just watching being used all time.
When I took Android , i wasn't aware of Google's hunger for information..
In the end, everyone is happy without Google's justifications...
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk HD
I would like to point out that you are under no compulsion to connect an android phone to a Google account. You only need to connect your account if you want to avail of their services such as Play Store, syncing contacts, etc. If you can do without them, then by all means you can disconnect your Google account.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
sidthegreatest said:
I would like to point out that you are under no compulsion to connect an android phone to a Google account. You only need to connect your account if you want to avail of their services such as Play Store, syncing contacts, etc. If you can do without them, then by all means you can disconnect your Google account.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree...
As for me I don't like Google's spying so I uninstalled all their apps, including network location and Google framework service, and I use alternative apps for gtalk or Google play. And recently I even made a new email at Yahoo's. I know Yahoo spies as well, but since android is Google at least I don't put all my eggs in the same basket.
If like me you are very privacy concerned there are ways to cut the abusive permissions most apps use.
You need to be rooted, and then use apps like appsettings (in conjunction with xposer app), permissions denied, rom toolbox, greenify, privacy blocker, and the best (but unfortunately not available for all roms) : pdroid and its variants like open pdroid and the like.
For example, recently I downloaded the Yahoo app. Before to start using it I put it through privacy blocker and then changed the imei value and other nosy informations with fake values (thank you privacy blocker and respect to xeudoxus its developer). Then I opened appsettings and blocked other unwanted permissions (thank you rovo and tungstwenty, respect). Finally I started to use it, and when I'm done checking my mails I greenify (thank you oasisfeng and respect) the app to avoid background usage.
Of course when one does such things one doesn't get notifications as soon as a new message arrives, but as for me I don't care since I don't need, and don't want, to be connected and hence spied, 24 hours a day.
It's relatively easy to get rid of the spying, but of course you will loose 2-3 features.
It's up to you...
I did the same with my browsers (opera mini and dolphin), privacy blocker+ appsettings+greenify, and with Mozilla I use an add-on called self destructing cookies.
Another thing is that not only Google spies on us, actually everyone does.
Just have a look at the permissions used by your system (default) applications, it's insane moreover that when one blocks those abusive permissions the apps still work. Don't think that it would be any better with a custom room, it's exactly the same story with cyanogen mode or aosp or pa etc.
What I do is that I remove most system apps (keeping like 10 for my tab, and 20 something on my phone, which means that I uninstall over 100 system apps, exactly 160 on my tab's recent jb upgrade) and replace them with third party apps that are easier to control and whose permissions are easier to block. And of course I block everything I can, system and user apps alike.
One of these days when I have time I'll write a more precise guide on these matters...
unclefab said:
I completely agree...
As for me I don't like Google's spying so I uninstalled all their apps, including network location and Google framework service, and I use alternative apps for gtalk or Google play. And recently I even made a new email at Yahoo's. I know Yahoo spies as well, but since android is Google at least I don't put all my eggs in the same basket.
If like me you are very privacy concerned there are ways to cut the abusive permissions most apps use.
...........
One of these days when I have time I'll write a more precise guide on these matters...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sir, this is what I wanted to know. Thank you very much for your valuable time and experience shared here. I know this is serious concern and people like us need a way to be have a sound sleep without virtual spies.
About permissions, Google chrome takes permission to use camera and mic without and command by user.. I mean why Google needs it...again another why...
Your reply was very helpful, thank you...
keep updated me here when you can...
Stay blessed..
DBZo07 said:
Sir, this is what I wanted to know. Thank you very much for your valuable time and experience shared here. I know this is serious concern and people like us need a way to be have a sound sleep without virtual spies.
About permissions, Google chrome takes permission to use camera and mic without and command by user.. I mean why Google needs it...again another why...
Your reply was very helpful, thank you...
keep updated me here when you can...
Stay blessed..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My pleasure, I'm happy if I could help you...
Google chrome is one of the worst browser when it comes to privacy. If you want to keep on using it try to block the unwanted permissions like camera and mike with appsettings. The problem is that sometimes apps crash after having their perms blocked, and in this case what I do is just uninstalling and looking for another one that does the same job, fortunately there is no shortage of apps on the web
If you can't manage to tame Google chrome just use Mozilla. It has some abusive perms as well but they can be disabled for sure (I use it). Not with appsettings though but with permissions denied (another privacy app, quite powerful but one has to use it with care).
Just get the apps I recommended in my first post (some are paid but they are well worth the money) and start playing with them, in no time you will regain your privacy.
And uninstall as many system apps as you can...
Good luck!
Oh, I nearly forgot! Read my post in the following link, it tells which apps are safe to remove for the galaxy grand:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=39395506
They anonymize all of the usage data as much as possible. If you don't like using Google services but still want to be able to download apps from the Play Store, go into Settings -> Accounts -> your Google account(s) -> uncheck all of the boxes for syncing various services.
Every company collects information on usage in order to better their products and find out how people are using them. They're not reading all of your emails (yes, their computers scan them to show you relevant text ads, but that's all) or coming to your house to film you while you're in the shower. You guys are overreacting. There is not one company who doesn't collect usage data. And if they don't, then they're doing it wrong, because they're developing their products and services blindly. Google is pretty clear about their data collection policies.
unclefab said:
My pleasure, I'm happy if I could help you...
Google chrome is one of the worst browser when it comes to privacy. If you want to keep on using it try to block the unwanted permissions like camera and mike with appsettings. The problem is that sometimes apps crash after having their perms blocked, and in this case what I do is just uninstalling and looking for another one that does the same job, fortunately there is no shortage of apps on the web
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize that Chrome has the Microphone permission so that it can hear you when you use voice search, among other things, right? Your computer browser can also access your webcam and microphone...
I care about privacy as well, but you guys are wearing tinfoil hats. Google does not care about you. They just want to know how to further develop their products.
Product F(RED) said:
You do realize that Chrome has the Microphone permission so that it can hear you when you use voice search, among other things, right? Your computer browser can also access your webcam and microphone...
I care about privacy as well, but you guys are wearing tinfoil hats. Google does not care about you. They just want to know how to further develop their products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course I know that this perm is for the voice search, an app that I don't use either.
And I know that in 2013 it's not such a big deal if those big companies collect data about us, apart from spamming us with advs.
But I don't know how it will be in 10 our 20 years, and when I see the way our "democracies" go I rather understand now how to make myself invisible, better to prevent than to cure.
Imagine if Hitler had had this technology...
Those days are gone? I don't think so, the Yankees had Bush for eight years, the French had Sarkozy for five years, they were not modern Hitler but they were going in the same direction, cutting rough in the people's freedom.
They didn't go as far as Hitler but who knows what will happen in the next decades. I'm 44 and since the 90 ies I've seen a worrying drift towards less and less freedom, and it won't get any better for sure, it will only get worse.
Anyway, it's not only about this, it's about those apps using my data plan without asking, depleting my phone's battery and slowing my ram. If Google wants infos he has to pay for it, and I have to agree to sell him those infos.
Cuz my phone didn't come for free, I had to pay for it and I don't see why I should use my data plan to help big Google and co...
unclefab said:
Of course I know that this perm is for the voice search, an app that I don't use either.
And I know that in 2013 it's not such a big deal if those big companies collect data about us, apart from spamming us with advs.
But I don't know how it will be in 10 our 20 years, and when I see the way our "democracies" go I rather understand now how to make myself invisible, better to prevent than to cure.
Imagine if Hitler had had this technology...
Those days are gone? I don't think so, the Yankees had Bush for eight years, the French had Sarkozy for five years, they were not modern Hitler but they were going in the same direction, cutting rough in the people's freedom.
They didn't go as far as Hitler but who knows what will happen in the next decades. I'm 44 and since the 90 ies I've seen a worrying drift towards less and less freedom, and it won't get any better for sure, it will only get worse.
Anyway, it's not only about this, it's about those apps using my data plan without asking, depleting my phone's battery and slowing my ram. If Google wants infos he has to pay for it, and I have to agree to sell him those infos.
Cuz my phone didn't come for free, I had to pay for it and I don't see why I should use my data plan to help big Google and co...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more like, "by using the software on this phone, you agree to Google's data collection policies." Either create your own ROM that doesn't include the code, or don't use the phone. You could go to Apple and use an iPhone, but they do the same thing. Microsoft does the same thing with Windows Phone. Palm did the same with WebOS. Seriously, there's nowhere you can go where anonymous data isn't collected to develop products.
I am glad that there are few more people who take their privacy seriously and knowledgeable enough to know what happening inside phones.
I strongly believe that this topic needs mass exposure. Millions of innocent people don't know what's happening and the risks. Take this topic to social networks and spread. For my part I will post this thread link on Facebook, Twitter and WhatsApp.
I would also wish that some of our great developers would come forward and help in this matter.
Thanks for starting this thread.
I knew people will feel thus topic as paranoid. But that's preference.
No problem, speak against topic or support this topic, you will help other members have clear picture of what I want to say. After all critics have role to play too. So thanks to all.
@unclefab thank you for your comment which helped me get my words meaningful.
@silentvisitor that's what I had planned to get the topic wide exposure. Hope, there will be respect for privacy oneday.
Revolutionary changes are required and that can be just hoped.
The only hope I can see is that when the country itself recognises this as an issue than it can impact on world... more and more country joins the cause the stronger will be the impact.
These are just hopes and how future will play that God knows.
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk HD
Product F(RED) said:
It's more like, "by using the software on this phone, you agree to Google's data collection policies." Either create your own ROM that doesn't include the code, or don't use the phone. You could go to Apple and use an iPhone, but they do the same thing. Microsoft does the same thing with Windows Phone. Palm did the same with WebOS. Seriously, there's nowhere you can go where anonymous data isn't collected to develop products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, true, and actually Apple is worse.
What I don't like, beside the fact that they hijack my connection, my battery and my ram (and I mean, not only Google but most apps), is that they create files about us. It's ok as long as we have a democracy but as I previously said I'm not very optimistic about democracy in the future, remember the infamous patriot act in the States...
For example, Google knows that mister uncle fab has a gmail account. It knows as well that uncle fab goes on this and that website and reads this or that page, buys this and that online, has this and that app on his phone, goes here or there (thank you GPS and Google now) and stops here or there, listens to this or that kind of music, watches this or that movie, takes this and that picture and so on.
Eventually they have a file about uncle fab, and know a lot about his life and his taste.
Suppose now that uncle fab is a commie and someone who disagrees with the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and that he's a muslim who has traveled to some of the so called axe of evil countries (which I did by the way, that's why I take this example, but fear not for I'm no terrorist )
What would happen? If uncle fab lives in the States he may be in serious trouble and get invited to a nice all included stay in Guantanamo, eventhough he's not a terrorist.
Well that's just an example but seriously, what happens with all those files they gather about people? Not to mention facebook, you know what I mean, their data base is huge and includes pictures.
What will they do with those files in the event of the government turning fascist or half fascist?
I'm not a terrorist but I have some convictions and some ideas that would make me a bad guy for a fascist regime and that would bring me to jail.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a bad guy
But, amongst others, I seriously dislike the State's foreign policy and sincerely think that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are crimes against mankind that should bring their authors (Bush and his friends) in front of the international court. I do think as well that endeavors like wikileaks are very good ones and that their informants shouldn't be trialled.
I do think other things as well, it's my right, but under the Bush administration I would have been called a bad American and if they had caught me I would have won a free stay in Guantanamo.
During the Mac Carthy area I would have been called a commie because of my anti capitalistic ideas and would have been sent to jail.
Etc, etc...
So eventhough I'm not a bad guy I rather stay as invisible as I can, no-one knows what will happen in the future but from my point of view it looks pretty grim to say the last.
Regarding your remark about building my own Rom I agree, it's on my list of to do things.
But let's see first how the Mozilla os goes, and if the devs behind the Linux on android project manage to make it work properly for a daily use.
At the end of the day it's a matter of choice as you said, if someone doesn't like Google one can uninstall its apps.
You know, I spent hours playing with the apps I mentioned in my previous posts and I can say that no app knows my imei or my location, and that the only apps I allowed to connect with the internet are my browsers and the Yahoo app whose abusive perms I blocked.
Of course the browsers know my ip but that's all they know and I don't care about it, and if one day I did then I would use a vpn app or tor/orbot.
So I don't see how anyone could squeeze any data from me...
Oh, I just found this on the forum, give it a read:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/say-sayonara-to-the-play-store-part-1/
If you want privacy, go move to a rainforest in South America or something. Get rid of your phone, computer, internet connection, etc. What you guys are asking for is ridiculous. You want free products handed to you on a silver platter. These companies need something in return. At the very least, they need the information they collect to understand their userbase. I'm a marketing major and computer science minor. Really, I understand that privacy is pivotal to you guys, but you're demanding something pretty ridiculous. This is ANONYMOUS usage data.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2
Product F(RED) said:
If you want privacy, go move to a rainforest in South America or something. Get rid of your phone, computer, internet connection, etc. What you guys are asking for is ridiculous. You want free products handed to you on a silver platter. These companies need something in return. At the very least, they need the information they collect to understand their userbase. I'm a marketing major and computer science minor. Really, I understand that privacy is pivotal to you guys, but you're demanding something pretty ridiculous. This is ANONYMOUS usage data.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sound very straight forward. Your comments are brainwashing. You have better way of critical thinking, its appreciable. As a marketing guy you know user have different preferences and taste.
Rarely people are concern about privacy which is not letting this being called as an issue.
Data is used anonymously, is this justified?
Even Facebook says this, than why it has photos and name in their database?
How come Facebook/Google recognize face with exact name if data is anonymous..
Can any of data stealers come forward and give just a short justification and proof about how data is being used?
Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk HD
As Fred as stated, everything you do is tracked and monitored. This is nothing new really, been going on for years. There is only one way around it. That is to remove yourself from all things as stated above. You would be amazed how many times your personal info changes hands on a daily basis. Even utility companies track your usage. Your cell carrier does the same thing. Now I understand wanting privacy but total privacy is a myth that in this day and age is not an option. Now I dont trust the Gov in any way shape or form, to the point of not buying any device that has the fema chip installed. Which is 99% of the devices in the US.
Hi, I am wondering to what extent Google has built into the android OS, ways of collecting data on the user, even when the user does not open a google account and uses only side loaded apps. ? Does anyone know the answer to this?
jaifora said:
Hi, I am wondering to what extent Google has built into the android OS, ways of collecting data on the user, even when the user does not open a google account and uses only side loaded apps. ? Does anyone know the answer to this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read this thread, even if it's about Xiaomi, on the 2nd page you will find your answer!
setmov said:
Read this thread, even if it's about Xiaomi, on the 2nd page you will find your answer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've read trough the second page and couldn't find what you're aiming at. So far as I can see it's only about xiaomi ROMs and their proprietary apps, that cause the security holes.
nerotNS said:
I've read trough the second page and couldn't find what you're aiming at. So far as I can see it's only about xiaomi ROMs and their proprietary apps, that cause the security holes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you were asking is actually just the same! Short answer: Google is in your phone at a API level, and there is no way to get rid of it!
setmov said:
What you were asking is actually just the same! Short answer: Google is in your phone at a API level, and there is no way to get rid of it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the same as the API itself is not the thing that sends the data. The apps that USE those APIs are the ones that route the data.
The apps on the thread
* AntHalService
* XiaomiServiceFramework
* Cleanmaster
* com.xiaomi.gamecenter.adk.service
* com.duokan.airkan.phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
None of them are Google apps. All of them are 3rd party. For example, my nexus 4 with stock Android doesn't have these apps, therefore no data is sent.
nerotNS said:
It's not the same as the API itself is not the thing that sends the data. The apps that USE those APIs are the ones that route the data.
The apps on the thread
None of them are Google apps. All of them are 3rd party.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An app has not to be Google proprietary. Android is!!! Are you aware of what info are sent out of your android phone without you will be able to intercept them? You are right, apps are sending info, as also Google per se are collecting info, all the time. Please, don't believe me, actually I'm suggesting you not to believe me, but sooner or later, you'll see! There is no firewall, root, or any other trick able to stop them or control them! The only way is to strip Android apart, and recreate a new API, but then, bye bye functionality!
setmov said:
An app has not to be Google proprietary. Android is!!! Are you aware of what info are sent out of your android phone without you will be able to intercept them? You are right, apps are sending info, as also Google per se are collecting info, all the time. Please, don't believe me, actually I'm suggesting you not to believe me, but sooner or later, you'll see! There is no firewall, root, or any other trick able to stop them or control them! The only way is to strip Android apart, and recreate a new API, but then, bye bye functionality!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is open source, if there were serious security exploits they would have already been found and patched out. If not by Google itself, then by 3rd party developers. It's true that Google collects data like your location, but ONLY if you allow it. Also, even if you're correct, disabling the internet will help anyone who's paranoid enough. Besides, the xiaomi thread deals in stuff a lot more serious (eg. money) than the misc data such as the % of time you spent playing a game. All in all, while it's possible to exploit Android and steal data from incautious users, Android as a system doesn't sell or give your key info (user, pass, card no etc.) to anyone.
nerotNS said:
Android is open source, if there were serious security exploits they would have already been found and patched out. If not by Google itself, then by 3rd party developers. It's true that Google collects data like your location, but ONLY if you allow it. Also, even if you're correct, disabling the internet will help anyone who's paranoid enough. Besides, the xiaomi thread deals in stuff a lot more serious (eg. money) than the misc data such as the % of time you spent playing a game. All in all, while it's possible to exploit Android and steal data from incautious users, Android as a system doesn't sell or give your key info (user, pass, card no etc.) to anyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right, we don't have to be afraid of Google to use our data like Xiaomi, but....here is what I know for sure:
(copied from Xiaomi thread)
The point is that is not important what OS you are using, or what is the phone manufacturer. All of them send your data to their "masters". Said that, let's take a look at google. The first time you boot your precious phone, and you connect to the net, Google will receive your IMEI, your phone number, your location (based on network or gps, depends) an all the data you have on your phone. Ok, I know, I know, they are the owners of the Android OS, and they can do whatever they want, and you will never know what they are doing if you have a stock rom, You will not know what they are doing as a power user with highly customized rom as well. Why? Well, because their API. To be clear, the API, also known as "application programming interface (API) specifies a software component in terms of its operations, their inputs and outputs and underlying types. Its main purpose is to define a set of functionalities that are independent of their respective implementation, allowing both definition and implementation to vary without compromising each other.(as per wikipedia)" in not always an "open source project" and the Android core platform API is not "open source" at all, even in the "AOSP" project. The point is that when you use an android platform, if you want it or not, Google receive your data. Let me go further....a month or so ago, Google has implemented their Gmail policy, and started a new monitoring program against pedophilia, and at my point of view, this is a good thing, but, you have to know what's going on. actually they scan every email in your inbox and to or from their Gmail service searching for clues. If they find something, then you're screwed, because they know who you are. Believe me, they know! But this is not the point, so, where they store all the infos on you, and your Gmail account, when they find nothing? Oh, of course on their servers in the US!!! Based on the Patriot Act, the "Agencies" do not need any kind of "court order" to take a peek inside your life. They can do whatever they want, and actually they are doing it. Google will never say NO, and it's obvious why. Based on what is above mentioned, all the US based companies do the same. Unfortunately, the most of the world use Android, even if the manufacturer is Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever else. If you strip Android apart because all of that and you want your privacy back, you will find an interesting thing, that your Android will no more work correctly, and you will find it unusable. This is exactly because the core functionalities that spy on us. We can discuss this as much as we want, but these are facts. To be completely sure that no one is spying on you, someone would have to rebuild the whole Android system, but without a lot of money and the right "crew" this will never happen. Same thing you can expect from Apple (no need to mention the leakage of their cloud system) or Microsoft. Xiaomi, also use services that need your personal data...cloud, sms, mms, whatever, and by buying their product you agreed with them. They will not stole your credit card, but their "agencies" will know who you are, and what you do. But, to be honest, they will do you nothing if you are a non-Chinese citizen. I have never seen Chinese Agencies doing something to the rest of the world, but I have seen US agencies doing bad things to their citizens and the rest of the world. So, let's be honest and admit it, as much as we talk about laws, no one is protected by them. If you are gonna buy a phone, you have to face the fact that you will be under surveillance and monitored. If you have the luck and you live in Switzerland, then you're ok, if not, well....face it, you are SOL. You have just to understand that no provider, manufacturer or OS developer will never solve this issue, because there is no interest.
About AOSP: (from their site!!!)
- First, the software gets built into a system image for a device, and put through various forms of certification, including government regulatory certification for the regions the phones will be deployed. It also goes through operator testing. -really? YES!
- Once the release is approved by the regulators and operators, the manufacturer begins mass producing devices, and we turn to releasing the source code. hmm....
- In some releases, core platform APIs will be ready far enough in advance that we can push the source code out for an early look in advance of the device's release; however in others, this isn't possible. - hahahaha, ask yourself why!!!
And this is just for start. This is not an app-related issue, we are talking about Android CORE! I love Android, I am using it actively and I am happy with it, it's just that sometimes I feel that this is not fair, but hey, who am I to told them what is or it's not fair? Is not a matter of OS, nor device. All have the same core functionality! NO PRIVACY for them! Accept it or not, these are facts.
I'll start with this:
First, the software gets built into a system image for a device, and put through various forms of certification, including government regulatory certification for the regions the phones will be deployed. It also goes through operator testing. Once the release is approved by the regulators and operators, the manufacturer begins mass producing devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is built in compliance with the laws of a specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).
nerotNS said:
I'll start with this:
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is build and in compliance with the laws of the specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@nerotNS I am not going to make a discussion with you, on some points you are right, on others, you're very wrong! I would love to be like you!
So, between you, you seem to be saying that an android phone can definitely send info to Google via an app, but you disagree on whether there is anything built into the API which sends info to Google independently of any app which can be clearly seen in the OS. I am wondering if there is anyone who actually knows the answer to this, through being involved in the development of the OS, other than a Google employee who may not be free to tell the truth, if the answer would be unpopular. I wonder if a user can be free of their snooping simply by not opening an account or using any of their products, or whether the only solution is to wait for a truly independent developer to produce a stable, quality device?
QUOTE=nerotNS;56965212]I'll start with this:
Government regulatory certification means that the device being certified is built in compliance with the laws of a specific country. That includes building materials, but is mostly focused on radio frequencies. This is to ensure that you don't get a "wild" device with random frequencies (since it has various radios for ex. GSM, GPS, Wi-Fi etc.) which can disrupt the normal functionality of a GSM tower for example. It also ensures that the device is safe (that's what we need FCC for), in terms of radio waves radiation. Operator testing means that when the device is being sold via a carrier like Verizon, AT&T etc., it is compliant with their proprietary software (more commonly known as bloatware) as well as that the device will work properly on their frequency bands. This is the main reason OTAs for Carrier devices are usually quite late compared to the "stock" or OEM devices.
Now about that Gmail scanning service, it doesn't mean that they STORE the results of the scan, they could be read only, meaning that their bot goes over the contents, but doesn't save anything on their servers (this was an issue earlier, but due to lawsuits, Google had to stop saving data, and delete the data already saved).
Next, it's true that Google receives your IMEI, but only AFTER you log in to your Google account. And this is not that they can sell it to someone, but to help identify that particular device on your account for uses of Google services (for example the Google Play web interface; if you had two same device models on your account how would you know which is which?), and IMEI is easy to get and since it's unique it fits the purpose. Your location is used for the same purpose, and even that is not pinpointed exact location but approximate location (which serves the purpose, but isn't intrusive). There is also the use of services such as the Android Device Manager which is a good thing, since it helps find and lock lost/stolen devices. Again, for this you need a unique identifier, and location (in this case precise).
Also, depending on your country of residence they DO have to get at least a court order with reasons for the investigation in order to access your files.
Further down the road, an API can't do anything by itself, it's sort of something that enables an APP to do something. Now that's a big difference, because you can't say "That API sent my data". It' the app that USES the specific API that transmits the data to a 3rd party. That's two worlds apart, because an app we can easily block via a firewall or even delete it completely if we find the need to.
Finally, agencies such as the NSA, FBI, or any other state agency don't have much interest in an ordinary person. There just isn't much to find about a regular citizen, as they don't really care about your every day life (setting up private meetings, sending pics to each other etc.).[/QUOTE]
So, between you, you seem to be saying that an android phone can definitely send info to Google via an app, but you disagree on whether there is anything built into the API which sends info to Google independently of any app which can be clearly seen in the OS. I am wondering if there is anyone who actually knows the answer to this, through being involved in the development of the OS, other than a Google employee who may not be free to tell the truth, if the answer would be unpopular. I wonder if a user can be free of their snooping simply by not opening an account or using any of their products, or whether the only solution is to wait for a truly independent developer to produce a stable, quality device?
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Well, you can always turn on Androids built in Device Encryption (if you don't mind slower r/w speeds). Combine that with a firewall and what you mentioned above and I think you're good.
unclefab said:
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@unclefab - well said!!!
I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! Yes guys, when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage! You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device! I am no developer, and I am not calling myself as such, but I know what I am talking from a security stand point! I am not a conspiracy theorist, and I will not tell you what I am doing for living, but definitely I know what I am talking about! Some times people are definitely dumb! Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?Are you aware what a little cookie can do? Are you aware why they use fake cell towers? Are you aware why they collect your data? Ads improvement? Service Improvement? Court orders? Really? Google isn't storing your data? Or Facebook even worse? Can't you really see what is going on? You can think I am an idiot, but as @unclefab said, trust no one! I am telling you this as a fairy tale, you can or can't believe me, but check for yourself and you'll see!
nerotNS said:
Well, you can always turn on Androids built in Device Encryption (if you don't mind slower r/w speeds). Combine that with a firewall and what you mentioned above and I think you're good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you're not good to go! Not if you're trying to avoid gov. agencies! And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time (at this time only Lollipop is causing issues to decrypt) !!! But hey, you have any right to believe otherwise!
Just a little off topic example....do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
unclefab said:
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@unclefab finally someone with some common sense!!! BRAVO!!!!
I am really glad you have elaborated my post! Probably the most will not even see what we wrote here, but hey, someone maybe will be able to learn something new!
Again...BRAVO!!!!
unclefab said:
It's not about API, it's about what data apps can access and what is sent over the internet, and it actually goes much further than what most people think.
Use apps like Network Log or Network Connections and give Wire Shark a try, and track which IPs apps connect to.
You'll be surprised...
On my Samsung, after I had removed all the google spyware (erggghhh, I mean google apps) and about 150 stock apps, I saw that the kernel was connecting to some google related IPs and to google's DNS, eventhough I had set the phone to use Open DNS in the resolv.conf file, and that the android system was calling home (read "at google's central office in mountain view, California") everytime I connected (note that my phone had never been linked to any google account whatsoever).
Some of the IPs could easily be blocked by using a firewall script, but for some others and for the DNS leaks I had to patch some jars in /system/framework.
One thing is that it differs from phone to phone, I've checked on a Lenovo and there is much less of such unwanted connections.
Is it embedded in the AOSP code? Maybe, I don't use AOSP or CM based roms so I can't tell, but what I can tell is that it's funny to see people screaming about Xiamoi when it's the same elsewhere.
Anyway, if one wants to protect oneself it's possible albeit a bit involved.
First is first, root.
Second, use Xprivacy and a good firewall like AF+.
Then, make a script to block inbound and outbound disturbing IPs.
So, am I good to go now?
Not yet, let's get a step further...
You need now to decompile some of your system apps and some of your jars, and track lines refering to specific websites and DNS.
- Note that if you really are privacy concerned you should uninstall as many system apps as you can (only 11 left on my phone) and replace them with third part apps that are much easier to restrict and have less privileges. Forget about google spyware (erggghhh and sorry again, I mean google apps), facebook spyware-apk, what's app etc... -
That's it?
Still not, there's more!
Xprivacy is a fantastic tool, but due to android limitations it can't restrict ids for the android system.
Have tou ever heard of android.id, build.serial, ro.boot.serialno, ro.serialno etc.? And what about the serial_no and the mac in the efs folder? And the cpu info in proc? And the serial_number in sys?
- I'll deliberately stay vague on those matters, only people that know what they are doing should mess with that kind of stuff. -
Those are ids specific to your device and of course they identify you, that's what they are meant for!
An example, have a look at the wpa_supplicant.conf localised in data/misc/wifi. You'll see that it has your serial_number which means, and experts please correct me if I am wrong, that everytime you connect on the wifi your serial_number gets sent.
You want to change it manually?
Yeah sure, edit it directly from the file. Now start you wifi and check again the serial_number, you are back to the original value.:cyclops:
I'm not sure whether, if your firewall script is well done and if Xprivacy has been well configured (read "VERY restrictively configured"), those ids leaks or not, but since I like to have more than one protection layer I've edited all of them.
Some ids are easily changed using setpropex or an init script, some are harder and require boot.img editing, but I won't explain any further since as written above only people knowing what they do should play with that stuff.
If all of the above has been done I don't think that anyone can get much data from your phone, but I'm not a security expert and I'd like to hear what you guys think.
Note 1
Trust no one.
I found that apps I had created for testing purposes were requesting my serial, my MCC and my MNC upon installation, eventhough I hadn't given them access to that data neither in the code nor in the android manifest), and then I found that nearly all apps request the same.
Does it come from the IDEs (I have tried with two different brands and it was the same) or does it come from the android OS itself?
I have risen the issue here but nobody seemed interested and nobody blessed me with any relevant answer. Was it that they thought I was unworthy of their attention, or was it that they just didn't know? Or both? Who knows but once more I tell you, TRUST NOONE!!!!
Note 2
Someone said that the NSA and other agencies don't have much interest in a regular person which is true, but they nevertheless gather as much info as they can about as many people as they can, just in case.
In the 50's it was illegal to be a communist in the USA, if cell phones had existed at that time Mac Carthy would have found his job greatly eased.
During the Bush era it was either one was with him or one was against him and was dubbed a bad american (even if one wasn't a terrorist but simply agains Bush's policies), with Guantanamo around the corner if one was suspected of too much empathy with the arab victims.
What's next?
They decide what is subversive and what isn't, and maybe one day you could be subversive because you are against capitalism, or against globalisation, or sympathetic to the people that defend their land agains US invasions and US backed puppet governments.
Or because you rooted your phone?
Keep your eyes open and stay aware guys...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
setmov said:
@unclefab - well said!!!
I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! Yes guys, when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage! You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device! I am no developer, and I am not calling myself as such, but I know what I am talking from a security stand point! I am not a conspiracy theorist, and I will not tell you what I am doing for living, but definitely I know what I am talking about! Some times people are definitely dumb! Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?Are you aware what a little cookie can do? Are you aware why they use fake cell towers? Are you aware why they collect your data? Ads improvement? Service Improvement? Court orders? Really? Google isn't storing your data? Or Facebook even worse? Can't you really see what is going on? You can think I am an idiot, but as @unclefab said, trust no one! I am telling you this as a fairy tale, you can or can't believe me, but check for yourself and you'll see!
No you're not good to go! Not if you're trying to avoid gov. agencies! And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time (at this time only Lollipop is causing issues to decrypt) !!! But hey, you have any right to believe otherwise!
Just a little off topic example....do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unclefab said:
"I completely agree with you. I have also tried to rise some awareness, but I keep seeing answers like "agencies don't have much interest in a regular person" and those are the first that are wrong (or are working for "someone")! "
Yeah, I've noticed the same, and they sometimes remain suspiciously silent on other subjects (like the questions I asked in my previous post or the issue I rose about illegitimate perms in home made apps), so I start to think the same than you.
Which means that we re back to the:
TRUST NOONE!
"when you first start your phone, and connect to the internet, in that very first moment, Google will receive your data, no matter what you did to restrict the leakage!"
True, that's why before to connect for the first time one should do the things I mentionned in post #12, plus some other settings that I will explain about in a soon to come tutorial on how to secure one's phone.
"You don't connect to internet? No problem, your operator will receive the same thing when you put their sim into your device!"
True again, but there's an easy way to bypass that.
First, don't give your real name when you buy a phone (sounds obvious but most people don't even think about it).
Second, don't give your real name when you buy a sim (same remark as above).
Third, with Xprivacy, AF+ Firewall, AppSettings, a firewall script, some init.d scripts etc. I don't think one's operator can get much in terms of private data out of the phone, apart from the sim imsi, the phone number and how many credits left there are.
To secure the internet connection use Tor, your operator will know that you use it but it won't know anything else.
It still knows who we are calling, for how long etc. when we use the phone functions and AFAIK there's no way to prevent that, except maybe by using those apps that encrypt communications (I can't comment on that since I don't use my phone to phone or to text, and anyway I don't believe in encryption, see below).
But then comes common sense and the TRUST NOONE concept, if you call mum for her birthday you can use your phone, if you want to make a sensitive call use a public phone.
"Are you "people" aware that Google has a direct line (yes a "red phone" connect directly with the gov.?"
Yep, the same applies to Microsoft and Skype, Facebook, Twitter, Apple etc.
It's true that they don't really care about us for now but still, they gather as much data as possible in case one day they need to chase people like you and me because of a new anti subversion law.
"And just to be fully clear, encryption will help you with the local thief, any gov. agency will break it in no time"
I agree with you, and I even think that encryption is dangerous cuz it gives people a false sense of security. I don't think there's any encryption that can resist a two storeys computer, and there probably are anyway backdoors everywhere regardless of what their devs claim.
The same applies to Linux, it has been compromised by the NSA since 2003.
Open source, the code can be reviewed blah blah, yeah, sure, and who reviews it?
Who has weeks to spend reading boring lines of code?
The schema is simple, as soon as you have an app, a website or an operating system, or whatever that becomes relatively popular, the men in black come knocking at your door.
Unless you have been clever enough to hide properly, but most of the time that's not the case (see how easily they caught silk road, how easily they trace anonymous hackers, the list goes endless).
You want another example?
After Snowden's revelation many so called secure emails have popped out here and there. I've tried quite a few and guess what?
You can't use most of them if you are on Tor with java script disabled. The funny thing being that you still can use gmail or yahoo without java script, interesting isn't it?
Now back to encryption, instead of using it once more one has to use one's common sense:
DO NOT store sensitive data in your phone, that's it.
If you have sensitive data keep it on an usb stick, or a hard disk, the idea is to have it on a support that is not web connected.
"do you think this is the work of some hacker: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/regin-top-tier-espionage-tool-enables-stealthy-surveillance"
Hehehe, the only question is which men in black agency made it.
The US? China? Russia? The zionist? India?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys are way too paranoid. First off, if you're all into don't track us down, why are you using the Internet in the first place? Now for the technical part.
The kernel is trying to get the the DNS because guess what? DNS is needed for Internet connectivity. Android is a smartphone and many of its services rely on having an Internet connection. So it's rather normal that a system-level part is trying to establish a network connection. OEM kernels have more of this compared to AOSP because they use their proprietary services.
And sure, you can use 3rd party apps, but they too can contain tracking data, and prior to 4.4/5.0 core system apps were open source, and you still don't have to use gapps.
Next, you can't change hardware embedded data like serial numbers for a number of reasons, security being one of them. If it was that easy you could never track down stolen phones for example. Much like a motor engine serial number in a car. Same goes for IMEI. Then you spoke about the past. Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online.
Further, yes you ARE good to go. Androids built in encryption system is pretty tough. If your bootloader is locked down, you have no custom recovery, it ain't that easy to get to your data (excluding nexus devices, because of their development nature this can be relatively easily bypassed). Plus, they'd have to have physical access to your device.
They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account. I've already explained why, plus it's for their statistics for example the number of active android devices, new Android device activations on a daily basis etc.
You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists.
Calling encryption dangerous is ridiculous to say the least. And yes, even "two story computers" are gonna have a bad time cracking it. Ever heard of a 256-bit AES?
Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too.
Conclusion: Yes, there are ways to compromise security and data. Yes you can block most of those ways. But this level of paranoia is ridiculous to say the least and sounds like something I'd see in a conspiracy TV commercial. Reading trough your posts here I half expected to see "The end is nigh. Hide your children!" kind of sentence. If you believe that we're all monitored, then throw your router trough the window, smash all your tech, and live in a candle lit room. But please don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV.
Now setmov I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance.
nerotNS said:
You guys are way too paranoid. First off, if you're all into don't track us down, why are you using the Internet in the first place? Now for the technical part.
The kernel is trying to get the the DNS because guess what? DNS is needed for Internet connectivity. Android is a smartphone and many of its services rely on having an Internet connection. So it's rather normal that a system-level part is trying to establish a network connection. OEM kernels have more of this compared to AOSP because they use their proprietary services.
And sure, you can use 3rd party apps, but they too can contain tracking data, and prior to 4.4/5.0 core system apps were open source, and you still don't have to use gapps.
Next, you can't change hardware embedded data like serial numbers for a number of reasons, security being one of them. If it was that easy you could never track down stolen phones for example. Much like a motor engine serial number in a car. Same goes for IMEI. Then you spoke about the past. Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online.
Further, yes you ARE good to go. Androids built in encryption system is pretty tough. If your bootloader is locked down, you have no custom recovery, it ain't that easy to get to your data (excluding nexus devices, because of their development nature this can be relatively easily bypassed). Plus, they'd have to have physical access to your device.
They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account. I've already explained why, plus it's for their statistics for example the number of active android devices, new Android device activations on a daily basis etc.
You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists.
Calling encryption dangerous is ridiculous to say the least. And yes, even "two story computers" are gonna have a bad time cracking it. Ever heard of a 256-bit AES?
Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too.
Conclusion: Yes, there are ways to compromise security and data. Yes you can block most of those ways. But this level of paranoia is ridiculous to say the least and sounds like something I'd see in a conspiracy TV commercial. Reading trough your posts here I half expected to see "The end is nigh. Hide your children!" kind of sentence. If you believe that we're all monitored, then throw your router trough the window, smash all your tech, and live in a candle lit room. But please don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV.
Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@nerotNS
- First thing, I've wrote "Some times people are definitely dumb!" not @unclefab! Please prove me that what I wrote is not right!
- Second, everything WE said is right! Why are you trying so hard prove it otherwise?
- Third, you can see what you have the ability to see! Maybe in your country the prosecutors, law enforcement agencies or else, need a court order, in the US they don't! You know why? Because of Patriot Act! Maybe you don't even know what this is, and you haven't seen the effect of it, but this doesn't mean it not exist!
- Fourth, you have your believes, and I have mine, so I will respect that and not try to change yours, and for me this discussion is over!
To the OP @jaifora, men, believe what you want, you have the right to!
Good luck
@neronS
"Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online. "
Saying that shows that you are either very young, or that you have never left your home town, or both.
It's not the cold war anymore, true, now it's the so called war on terror, the US allways need to have an ennemy (before that back in the 90's it was the war on narcotics, but you may have not heard about it).
International laws you said?
You think the States care about those laws?
Did they care about it when the UN said that the invasion in Iraq violates such international laws?
Have you heard about the Abou Ghaib jail? That was another nice example on how international laws are followed by the States.
Apart from that, have you heard about corrupted indian officials tracking indian facebook users that expose their scamms?
Have you heard about that indonesian atheist that got severely beaten up by an angry mob because he had declared on his facebook account that he doesn't believe in god, and that endded up in jail (the atheist, not the mob) for blasphemy?
Have you heard about that bangladeshi blogger that may be executed cuz he wrote on his blog that he's an atheist?
You want more examples?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the states, the country of freedom and democracy, the country where you need a court order.
What a joke!
Have you heard about all what the US did these last 200 years? And have you heard about what the US is currently doing in 2014?
I guess you didn't, hence your last reply...
But as for me I did, and that's why I can't trust such a country. That said, I can't trust the european, the chinese, the indian or the russian either, not to mention the middle eastern, as I already said I trust NOONE...
"They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account."
Really?
What about permissions like access fine location (precise gps location), read sms, send sms without the user's knowledge, write sms, read bookmarks, write bookmarks, read contats, write contacts, read call log, write call log, read contact card, read user dictionary, get accounts on the device, perms that can be found in apps where such perms are not needed, you want more?
Have a look at all the data leakage when you connect to the internet, and you'll see that it's not only about a few digits...
"You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists. "
You have just proved once more that you have never been away from home.
The vast majority of android users are people from emerging countries where one can buy a phone without giving one's name (so no need to fake anything) and the same applies for the sim.
Those people are not rich arrogant westerners, who think they know everything because mum and dad sent them to a good school, and they don't have any subscription cuz in most of those countries it doesn't exist or if it does it's very limited.Those people buy prepaid credits when they have money, that's it.
How many people in the States? 315 millions.
How many people in western Europe? About 300 millions.
Add Canada, 30, Australia, 20, how many is that?
India, 1.2 billion or even more.
China, 1.2 billion and counting.
Africa, nearly 1 billion.
Indonesia, 250 millions.
Maybe you should leave your hometown and travel a bit, the world doesn't end in the west's boundaries.
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too. "
Do a search with "linux kernel nsa", you will learn a lot.
" don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV. "
Well, I haven't seen it on the tv, I have seen it on the field and I know very well what human beings are capable of, which you obviously don't.
So please, don't spread unfounded reinsurance that everything goes fine, that google and the governments are ok, just because a guy talking on their behalf on the tv said they are.
Then, you can call me a conspirationist or whatever, I don't care, I didn't write those posts for people like you but for people that have their eyes open.
"Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance"
Where did I call anyone "stupid?
You, on the contrary, said that:
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else".
So son, instead of playing mister moderator maybe YOU should watch a bit your language.
Ah the kids of today...:silly:
unclefab said:
@neronS
"Things change over time, it's not the Cold War ETA anymore. Next yes, court orders. According to international law they DO NEED a court order to see your data. And even that is done only in high profile criminal cases. You can read quite a lot about privacy laws online. "
Saying that shows that you are either very young, or that you have never left your home town, or both.
It's not the cold war anymore, true, now it's the so called war on terror, the US allways need to have an ennemy (before that back in the 90's it was the war on narcotics, but you may have not heard about it).
International laws you said?
You think the States care about those laws?
Did they care about it when the UN said that the invasion in Iraq violates such international laws?
Have you heard about the Abou Ghaib jail? That was another nice example on how international laws are followed by the States.
Apart from that, have you heard about corrupted indian officials tracking indian facebook users that expose their scamms?
Have you heard about that indonesian atheist that got severely beaten up by an angry mob because he had declared on his facebook account that he doesn't believe in god, and that endded up in jail (the atheist, not the mob) for blasphemy?
Have you heard about that bangladeshi blogger that may be executed cuz he wrote on his blog that he's an atheist?
You want more examples?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the states, the country of freedom and democracy, the country where you need a court order.
What a joke!
Have you heard about all what the US did these last 200 years? And have you heard about what the US is currently doing in 2014?
I guess you didn't, hence your last reply...
But as for me I did, and that's why I can't trust such a country. That said, I can't trust the european, the chinese, the indian or the russian either, not to mention the middle eastern, as I already said I trust NOONE...
"They won't receive any of your "precious" data except your rough location and serial numbers as well as your IMEI that will be bound to your Google account."
Really?
What about permissions like access fine location (precise gps location), read sms, send sms without the user's knowledge, write sms, read bookmarks, write bookmarks, read contats, write contacts, read call log, write call log, read contact card, read user dictionary, get accounts on the device, perms that can be found in apps where such perms are not needed, you want more?
Have a look at all the data leakage when you connect to the internet, and you'll see that it's not only about a few digits...
"You say you don't use a real name when buying a phone? Well tell me then, what about ID cards? You fake them too when signing a contract? Buying a prepaid SIM card doesn't need a name anyway. And buying a phone? Same thing, unless bought on contract, in which case the ID card problem persists. "
You have just proved once more that you have never been away from home.
The vast majority of android users are people from emerging countries where one can buy a phone without giving one's name (so no need to fake anything) and the same applies for the sim.
Those people are not rich arrogant westerners, who think they know everything because mum and dad sent them to a good school, and they don't have any subscription cuz in most of those countries it doesn't exist or if it does it's very limited.Those people buy prepaid credits when they have money, that's it.
How many people in the States? 315 millions.
How many people in western Europe? About 300 millions.
Add Canada, 30, Australia, 20, how many is that?
India, 1.2 billion or even more.
China, 1.2 billion and counting.
Africa, nearly 1 billion.
Indonesia, 250 millions.
Maybe you should leave your hometown and travel a bit, the world doesn't end in the west's boundaries.
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else. There are tens of thousands of people PAID to do this. It's not a single guy doing it. Plus just because YOU find it boring, doesn't mean everybody else finds it boring too. "
Do a search with "linux kernel nsa", you will learn a lot.
" don't spread unfounded fear on a public forum based purely on your assumptions, or on what you see on a TV. "
Well, I haven't seen it on the tv, I have seen it on the field and I know very well what human beings are capable of, which you obviously don't.
So please, don't spread unfounded reinsurance that everything goes fine, that google and the governments are ok, just because a guy talking on their behalf on the tv said they are.
Then, you can call me a conspirationist or whatever, I don't care, I didn't write those posts for people like you but for people that have their eyes open.
"Now unclefab I'm speaking directly to you. Calling other people stupid because they don't agree with you is a direct violation of xda's rules. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks in advance"
Where did I call anyone "stupid?
You, on the contrary, said that:
"Finally saying that nobody reviews "boring source code" is ignorant if nothing else".
So son, instead of playing mister moderator maybe YOU should watch a bit your language.
Ah the kids of today...:silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
setmov said:
@nerotNS
- First thing, I've wrote "Some times people are definitely dumb!" not @unclefab! Please prove me that what I wrote is not right!
- Second, everything WE said is right! Why are you trying so hard prove it otherwise?
- Third, you can see what you have the ability to see! Maybe in your country the prosecutors, law enforcement agencies or else, need a court order, in the US they don't! You know why? Because of Patriot Act! Maybe you don't even know what this is, and you haven't seen the effect of it, but this doesn't mean it not exist!
- Fourth, you have your believes, and I have mine, so I will respect that and not try to change yours, and for me this discussion is over!
To the OP @jaifora, men, believe what you want, you have the right to!
Good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize for the mistype I didn't mean unclefab, I meant setmov with his "stupidity" remark.
As for you, I HAVE been around the world quite a lot more than you think. And in case you haven't noticed, I said that you need to give your name ONLY if on contract. I even said that using prepaid doesn't include this. And even according to the Patriot Act they still DO NEED at least a search warrant, otherwise it would be breaking the US Constitution. All the examples you gave above may be true, but you forgot to mention the fact that it was all placed PUBLICLY AND WILLINGLY. The aftermath is a completely unrelated thing. And yes, even though I am 18 I k of quite a lot of the matter as well as other things. Assuming something about someone based on age is immature to say the least. And finally you told me to search Linux kernel NSA. Mate, if you believe everything on Google, I hope you have anti alien cannons in your house. Also claiming that westerners are "rich and arrogant" is considered nationalism. Don't do it, it's bad. Plus everything I learned, I learned on my own. Not in a "good school". As setmov said, as far as I'm concerned the discussion is over, I don't want this to become a public fight. If you wish further talk, you can contact me in a PM.
I've search for information on this but have found nothing so I thought I'd post my findings here and see if anyone has anything to add/correct.
I've been setting up firewall blocking on my router using ASUSWRT-Merlin with Skynet firewall. I decided to block a whole bunch of countries that I deemed unnecessary/risky for security, including China.
Turns out, blocking China prevents AirDroid from working - it can't even log in.
Checking the log shows a bunch of domains that Skynet is blocking (stat.airdroid.com, stat3.airdroid.com, stat-push.airdroid.com, us-east-7-data.airdroid.com, us-east-8-data.airdroid.com, srv3-clb.airdroid.com, id4-clb.airdroid.com; possibly others). Telling Skynet to unblock these domains results in it responding with "Element cannot be deleted from the set: it's not added" (i.e. they're not blocked).
Removing China from the blocked countries list allows AirDroid to work.
Now this is where things get interesting, and how I figured out the China-wide blocking was causing this issue. In the log file that Skynet stores on the inserted USB drive, "skynet.log", it shows the IPs that these connections were trying to make. All of them are owned by Tencent (there were two prominent ones, but the entire range beginning with "49.51." is owned by them) - specifically, these are for TencentCloud (I assume those are their cloud services, like Azure or AWS or such).
Also, the three MAC addresses dealing with the Tencent IPs are my Note 9, Galaxy Tab A8 and my MacBook - the only three devices on which I run AirDroid.
I'm sure most people won't really care on what servers AirDroid are hosting, but personally, I'd rather not have any connections made to or from Tencent IPs if possible, especially considering how often AirDroid appears to be phoning home. This worries me, especially since this doesn't appear to be public knowledge. The only inconsistency is that a whois lookup shows AirDroid's host is GoDaddy, so how exactly Tencent is involved, I'm not sure... but they are.
If I'm mistaken about this, please feel free to correct me - I'd be happy to be wrong, frankly -, but based on what I'm seeing and the blocking/unblocking I've tried, it appears, at least for now, that this is true.
Guess I'll have to start looking for an AirDroid alternative, because this is unacceptable to me.
Attached are some screenshots of my logs with MAC addresses and personal IPs redacted in case anyone is curious. Yes, I realise the dates are different - I didn't realise I'd screencapped yesterday from the log until after I had edited the images, but the data is pretty much identical to the data from today.
Best I can tell, the Tencent IPs definitely coincide with AirDroid trying to log in and authenticate (and failing at the time because China was still blocked).
Thanks for this info, I was already having my doubts about Airdroid.
No problem. I'm glad someone found it useful. Nobody else seems to be talking about it, which bothers me.
If nothing else, Tencent's servers are being used for Airdroid's authentication servers.
Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.
wangdaning said:
Not sure why it is such an issue really? I mean it is not like other services that use servers tell me where they are routing anything. I would be more worried that there is basically no information about the company that runs the project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.
TankedThomas said:
Because not every company routes your information through Chinese servers which, in this case, could have a large amount of access to your linked devices. Tencent is not a trustworthy company. This could potentially mean that, if they wanted to, the Chinese government could access a lot of your data through AirDroid.
Now, obviously that's not guaranteed, but I still wouldn't trust it.
Then again, there's a reason I try to stick to FOSS software as much as possible. AirDroid was convenient for a while but I don't use it now.
Besides, your reasoning for this not being "such an issue" is "others are shady too". That... doesn't actually make it any better. Plus we know that companies like Google, for example, mine your data anyway, whereas this seemingly innocuous application that I've seen readily recommended by many people is a lot more obfuscated (probably because it's a smaller app).
That, and I haven't found many apps and sites from personal usage that my firewall setup blocks, so this one absolutely stood out like a sore thumb.
I don't want anything to do with Tencent and I know other people feel the same way as me. More importantly, I shared the information to hopefully learn more and, more importantly, let other people know in case they care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.
wangdaning said:
I would like to know what exactly makes tencent untrustworthy. I use them for banking daily, so would like to be informed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.
TankedThomas said:
The fact that they give your data to the Chinese government should be all you need to know to deem them untrustworthy - Tencent and similar companies collect a lot of your data (often illegally).
If you don't believe me, look it up - most of (if not all, though that has yet to be conclusively proven, but it's not much of a stretch) the tech giants in mainland China are in the pocket of the Chinese government.
Frankly, I value my privacy too much to deal with such a company, and using them for banking sounds like a bad idea to me.
Here are some sources that I pulled up quickly, but there's plenty more of these around the web:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...ping-the-government-see-everything-1512056284
https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2...-your-data-when-you-use-chinese-messaging-app
https://fossbytes.com/xiaomi-and-tencent-illegal-data-collection-china/
https://freedomhouse.org/blog/worried-about-huawei-take-closer-look-tencent
The best they get is a slap on the wrist (and sometimes only for the sake of publicity), then they continue on with these practices.
And that's to say nothing of the censorship in which they engage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:
wangdaning said:
If privacy was your main concern you would never use an app that routes your data through a third party without encryption. It is clear your goal is to take a shot at a company that is not even in control of the app you are complaining about. Lets see, your news list says, Xiaomi, Huawei, Tencent, and Chinese. How interesting.
By all means protect your privacy. I know I do and I use all three companies and many more products from the country. I hate that tencent knows when I get a latte though :silly:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is clear your goal is to defend a bunch of Chinese companies known for handing data over to the Chinese government.
The fact that you are purposely trying to portray me in a specific way to fit your narrow-minded view instead of being concerned about how and where data goes (and for the record, I care about where my data goes in general, but most people around here are already well aware of where data for companies like Google and Apple goes, but not for an app like this) is frankly ridiculous.
If you don't care about this (which you clearly do not), then kindly leave this thread and don't return. I posted this thread to let people who despise Tencent and their business practices know about AirDroid's involvement, and to see if anyone had more information. I did NOT post this thread for you to come along and defend Tencent's honour. Enough garbage companies already do that, and they've added as much to the discussion of privacy as you have (i.e. absolutely nothing of value).
Great concerns, for sure. Thanks for your input.
I tried the app, quickly isolating it from the WAN, and running with Xprivacy of course. Luckily, HTTPS local connection only is possible. I wouldn't sign up in this type of app and i wouldnt use the barcode reader to connect to WAN. Rendered LAN web app contacts chinese servers on the PC, but reviewing content it looked fine in a quick check.
The app seems chinese, it's giving me one notification bar in chinese, and rest of translations are chinglish. I don't say it's neccessarily wrong, i just want to know if this is an open source app to trust it. Otherwise, i will keep running it in strict LAN mode.
Now about the functionality, I like Synology/Windows like UI. So cool!
Contacts/Call log/messages/ringtones/apps work.
Mirroring and Camera worked once. There's some strange checkbox "Don't show again" to click on (?) in Mirroring settings which doesn't work. Update: Camera worked again once switching back to HTTP.
Files/Music/Pictures/Videos don't work at all, even the android app cannot see files. No clue why.
Notifications are shown again on HTTP, however they're not displayed by the browser AND they simply disappear later. No actions also. So unless you 're currently in the tab, you won't notice anything.
I struggle to find a use case for this.
* Mirroring isn't interactive - so together with Camera it's a very infrequent function to use. I'd rather have an interactive mirroring like MobilEdit (if i remember correctly), what a great app it was. Or a Dex type of desktop where you can really interact with the android.
* Messages is showing "SMS", which is something obsolete for me, using alt messenger with secure repository (not the standard unsafe android one). SMS and calls are dead to me long time ago, but i'd have been happy about possibility to reply a decade ago, definitely!
* The last resort is notifications, that'd save some time if implemented well, with history. But it's not.
* One more thing on my mind is ability to send APK to phone, ok.. but it's again a rare task, i wouldn't run this background service for this purpose if i can send the APK via bluetooth...
I look for an app that let me get rid of USB cable for sharing photos or musik between PC and phone.
Sorry if I didn't understood the whole elaboration, but isn't this not just a point to point connection? I wouldn't like that others have access to it.
Or is it about other services?
is this the same Airdroid that has been around for like 10 years now?