Related
I was wondering if anyone knows a real answer for this. How easy would it be to cook in something that would send back your email login and password? Or other logins to stuff like banking sites. The people who make the roms seem to be hard working enthusiasts, but it still makes me nervous.
The reason I am asking this is because WM6.1 seems pretty buggy and slow and I was hoping that maybe updating to 6.5 would help, however Sprint is being super slow and vague (as usual) about if they will ever release an official rom.
And please no "then just don't use custom roms" replies. I am just hoping someone has some way to show that they are safe and then I will happily use it!
I was wondering the same thing. I don't use any cooked rom for anything banking related for this possible risk.
I know there are other threads that have the answer but can't find them maybe someone hid them?
Anyway what would the average chef gain, second of all how do you know a member of Opera or IE is not taking down your details or even Bill? "by that i mean there is more to worry about"
My point being chefs cook ROMs to give users better phones than stocks... Also the world of WM isn't laden with virus's/spyware so even doing so would be hard and no one would be bothered to spend there time considering how much time cooking consumes.
Just Hard-SPL your device and start flashing
I find cooked roms are the best! They are tweeked, customized, optimized, flexable, etc. Happy Flashing
Im still leary. Im going to wait until you all flash...then i will know its safe
If any chef here did anything as dumb as that, I guarantee you everyone would know in VERY short order what was done, and that chef would be hung up by his ankles and verbally flogged by everyone here.
Trust me, it's never happened here, and it's not GOING to happen; because we have a great community here with great chefs who do nothing but make life better for everyone else. Choose a ROM, flash it, and quit being so paranoid.
FloatingFatMan said:
If any chef here did anything as dumb as that, I guarantee you everyone would know in VERY short order what was done, and that chef would be hung up by his ankles and verbally flogged by everyone here.
Trust me, it's never happened here, and it's not GOING to happen; because we have a great community here with great chefs who do nothing but make life better for everyone else. Choose a ROM, flash it, and quit being so paranoid.
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Click to collapse
That is a very argumentative answer to a very simple and valid concern that allwires has regarding the security of using cooked rom's. Some people that use these rom's like to use their device's web capabilities for banking and for storing personal information and he brings up a very valid question regarding the safety of using these rom's for these purposes. Then you insult the poster by saying he or she is being paranoid when we all know that the capabilities for wrong doing via viruses and other malicious software are very valid concerns in this day and age. I would like to hear an intelligent and informative answer to this question since I'm sure as this sort of thing becomes more mainstream as it is bound through time to become there will be many more inquiries made as to the safety of their usage.
I'm with FloatingFatMan here, any cook daft enough to do such a thing to a ROM would very quickly be found by his peers, tried, convicted and summarily thrown to the lions.
For all that how do we know Messrs Gates, Jobs, well their minions anyway , and other sundry "professional" ROM cooks are not hiding sneaky payloads in?
deedee said:
I'm with FloatingFatMan here, any cook daft enough to do such a thing to a ROM would very quickly be found by his peers, tried, convicted and summarily thrown to the lions.
For all that how do we know Messrs Gates, Jobs, well their minions anyway , and other sundry "professional" ROM cooks are not hiding sneaky payloads in?
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Click to collapse
Well, but you see that is my point exactly. Whether it is the big guy or the small guy doing it history has shown that where there is a will there is a way, especially when there is a profit to be made. Its like when Norton got busted for spyware found in their AV software in the early 2000's, remember that? I just wonder if such an attempt will be made with this newly emerging technology that is similar to the PC of the late 90's and the early 2000's, vulnerable. No one is offering (at least no one that I'm aware of) AV or firewall software for these various mobile OS's and I think that it is only a matter of time before the bad guys find a way to take advantage of these opportunities the same way they did the PC. Al least over time there became ways to detect these types of illegal practices with firewall software and packet capture software that made the average user capable of some control over his or her personal data.
qqa92 said:
Well, but you see that is my point exactly. Whether it is the big guy or the small guy doing it history has shown that where there is a will there is a way, especially when there is a profit to be made. Its like when Norton got busted for spyware found in their AV software in the early 2000's, remember that? I just wonder if such an attempt will be made with this newly emerging technology that is similar to the PC of the late 90's and the early 2000's, vulnerable. No one is offering (at least no one that I'm aware of) AV or firewall software for these various mobile OS's and I think that it is only a matter of time before the bad guys find a way to take advantage of these opportunities the same way they did the PC. Al least over time there became ways to detect these types of illegal practices with firewall software and packet capture software that made the average user capable of some control over his or her personal data.
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Click to collapse
Hey There,
Not wanting to be unkind but i think you are being very paranoid here and btw, you can indeed purchase AV software for mobile devices; youve only gotta google AV software for windows mobile to see that
The limited OS and how its written means the "baddies" would have nothing to gain/find it difficult to exploit so whats the point.
The only "virus" (and i use the term loosely) i ever came across actually asked you "do you want to install blah blah blah" to which the obvious answer was no.............oooo that was dangerous
To summerise, dont get your knickers in a twist about it and enjoy!
^^ And to add to Tim's comments. Just make sure you get your cooked ROM from an established chef if you're worried, and there won't be any problems.
Now, if the ROM was from someone with a tiny postcount and wasn't known, then you might have cause to think twice; but that's not going to happen here...
timmymarsh said:
Hey There,
Not wanting to be unkind but i think you are being very paranoid here and btw, you can indeed purchase AV software for mobile devices; youve only gotta google AV software for windows mobile to see that
The limited OS and how its written means the "baddies" would have nothing to gain/find it difficult to exploit so whats the point.
The only "virus" (and i use the term loosely) i ever came across actually asked you "do you want to install blah blah blah" to which the obvious answer was no.............oooo that was dangerous
To summerise, dont get your knickers in a twist about it and enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then why not let the cat out of the bag. I'm just in here to see if I can get a large portion of the members in here's knickers in a twist so that they will all go out and buy my mobile AV since mine is the biggest one out there currently. Lots of potential there, in terms of cha-ching you have to agree. LOL!
There's also the option of downloading a kitchen and cooking your own ROM ... this method permits you to look at each package in detail.
Cheers,
I once opened my yahoo on a cooked room, later on I was trying to log on on my laptop and password was rejected. I freaked out and kept trying, later that day I was able to log in after few hours for some unknown reason...
I stopped using my HTC fuze for emails since.
The myth that ALL cooked ROMs in here are completely clean sounds like an old familiar story of when the young man said to the girl "don't worry it will not hurt a bit" lol
I wish there was a tool that scans for such security gaps in a ROM
I'm not sure what your reasoningn was to stop using email on the phone because of a failure to login to yahoo from a laptop. Did you notice any malicious activity on your yahoo account? Have you since? Have you changed that password? Just seems strange.
As for the security of cooked ROMS, I've never used one but I have a new phone coming and I'm going to try one from a reputable party here. I'm not nervous about it and I use online banking all the time. Here is why I am not concerned:
1.) As several people pointed out already, your PC is more vulnerable just because of sheer numbers. WinMo has a small market share and cooked ROMs would represent an even smaller market share. Even then, there are many custom ROMs to choose from. Then if EVERY user of a specific tainted ROM used their online banking on their phones, there is still little they could actually do with that information. For example, chase uses text messaging which means yes, someone could get my balance and stuff, but I actually have to login to the site to authorize my phone rather than login through the phone. So the information itself may or may not be useful. At the end of the day, it just wouldn't make the chef much money since there would simply be too few potential victims.
2.) The liklihood is very high that the perp would be caught by their peers and exposed in order to 1 - protect their own integrity, and 2 - get bonus points for being the one who exposed the bad guy (or girl). When you add this level of risk to the low reward, it just doesn't make sense. High risk, lots of work, little reward.
3.) Then of course, if someone fraudulently accesses your account, you can usually get that money back.
So I'm perfectly comfortable froma security standpoint. It's the stability standpoint I'm a bit concerned about but that's why I'm waiting till I get my new phone to try one out so I can go back to my old phone if it all craps out.
RedScorpion78 said:
I once opened my yahoo on a cooked room, later on I was trying to log on on my laptop and password was rejected. I freaked out and kept trying, later that day I was able to log in after few hours for some unknown reason...
I stopped using my HTC fuze for emails since.
The myth that ALL cooked ROMs in here are completely clean sounds like an old familiar story of when the young man said to the girl "don't worry it will not hurt a bit" lol
I wish there was a tool that scans for such security gaps in a ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing and how much it would cost to have Lavasoft or AVG or Symantec evaluate ROMs as an impartial third party.
If anybody is thinking peer review would snuff out cheaters there are plenty cases where Ebay and Craigslist deals go bad and everybody is in on it - even (inadvertently) the local police authority that doesn't have the technical knowhow to deal with a cyber-based threat.
startluvova said:
I was thinking the same thing and how much it would cost to have Lavasoft or AVG or Symantec evaluate ROMs as an impartial third party.
If anybody is thinking peer review would snuff out cheaters there are plenty cases where Ebay and Craigslist deals go bad and everybody is in on it - even (inadvertently) the local police authority that doesn't have the technical knowhow to deal with a cyber-based threat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there,
Way to go to ressurect an old thread
Nothing has changed, i have never heard of seen of a custom rom that has a virus cooked in, or one that has been intentionally created to spy on the user.
That said, i guess you have to make your own decision after reading the comments from some experienced chefs/flashers here
CHeers.
I am a captivate owner and I have nothing to complain about.
The line above is a single sentence summary of this post. If you have no interest in the opinions of others or prefer to complain about a developers hard work then you should probably stop reading now.
After the countless hours I have spent in the Samsung Captivate section I am beginning to feel there is a growing void in the area of captivate compliments. It's as if people are angered by Samsung's apparent failure to achieve perfection. A post of positivity or satisfaction with our magical devices only seems to appear amidst the rampant firings of Iphone vs Captivate battles fanboy raids.
I do not intend to claim that Samsung has achieved perfection. Through the development and production of this device we can see that some apparent flaws have been made, HOWEVER!, these flaws are not attached to every captivate experience. After initially reading through this forum I would assume I have been blessed by the phone gods for providing me with the only fully functional captivate produced. After digging for some time though, it can be seen that there are a few who have had an awesome and intended experience with this phone. I never had a problem with GPS or Battery and I couldn't even complain about lag.
Rom after rom, my opinion has grown more positive. Through research and understanding I have learned how to make my device work more effectively for me. I have learned that most errors and malfunctions are simply user error or misinformation. A good and verified Master Clear can work wonders for a properly flashed phone's performance.
To the developers out there gilding the lily daily. You are awesome! Always should you receive an error log, but never should you hear a complaint.
I will end this with some things that have been making me smile since captivate release:
1. SAMOLED
2. Speed
3. Multitasking like a MoFo (Last.FM + My Tracks + HD video recording, simultaneously)
Updating with more smile factors:
4. Sleek sturdy hardware design
5. Phone sound quality and reception
6. Device/screen size
7. 3D acceleration
+1 to this. I too love my phone, it is a learnign curve and we have so many wonderful developers working hard to make out phones better. I agree that a little bit of learning goes a long way, most of the complaints I read and problems that are experienced are caused by over enthusiastic new owners that do not go through the proper steps for clean flashing and often have bugs do to this. Too many people improperly installing ROMS, not knowing the difference between Recovery and Download mode. Mostly due to not reading enough and following the clearly outlines steps. We all make mistakes and have all been noobs, no device is perfect and I know I had to spend two weeks of constant reading to know how to properly flash my phone, use adb, and various other usefull tools. I am constantly learning about Android and the Captivate, I am happy with my device and my current setup. These aren't I-phones thank god and you have to spend time to set it up the way it works for you, depending on individual needs and preference.
I also thing we have a wonderful comunity and need to work together to make it a pleasent atmosphere for all. I am truly enjoying my phone and appreciate the hard work the developers put into this.
The compaining gets tiresome, but with a little patience and learning these are really great Android phones. If you want something to work with no need to tweek and hack then Android id probably not the device for you, imo.
Happy to say the same! (without typing it lol)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
+1 Thank you for the post.
Good Post
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac
It is a great phone. My friends marvel at my resolution and then bend their heads and text on theirs.
Since rooting I feel freer. Ahhh.
Mac11700 said:
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
Mac
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not intend to silence those with complaints about their device or experiences. I myself have listed my concerns with the device here on XDA. It is a crucial part of how our community gains understanding and shares information. I just think the overwhelming count of negative to positive posts can be frightening to a newcomer or perspective android convert. I don't want to silence the negative but encourage the positive.
The above being said, some refrain should be practiced when posting to a developers thread. I am no developer but I think some people have a tendency to be more critical than helpful when complaining about freely developed and distributed software.
Otherwise, point taken and understood. Thanks for the contribution.
I absolutely love this phone. The GPS is abysmal, the Facebook app is in severe need of an update and the lack of convenient stable visual voicemail, but beyond that the phone is awesome.
I love swype and the amount of apps and I seem to be constantly blown away by the screen. Also, the battery life is great compared to my 3g.
I was skeptical at first but I'm glad I dove in.
Well.. I do not have this phone.. But, I actually 100% understand what you mean..
The best example I can think of is a PC.
When you buy a pc, what is the first thing most (even remotely knowledgable) users do with it?
Install a few programs. I always use ccleaner, to get clear out extra files, you delete the "extra" programs you don't want (if you didn't build the pc yourself). You make quite a few changes as soon as you get it.
If your going to get a phone.. and really want to get the most out of it.. your going to have to mod it.. That means Jailbreaking it on iphone, Rooting it on android and voiding your warranty eveywhere.
If your squeamish about voiding your warranty and just want a phone for email/internet browsing.. The iphone 4 is a great choice and you are welcome to use it, Actually so is blackberry, Symbian, and a slew of other phone's.
The truth is complaints shouldn't be addressed to the phone.. but, more the respective manufacturers and carriers that prevent rooting and void your warranty for doing so.
If you know what your buying, I can't feel bad when you come back and complain... If you don't know what your buying, I can't feel bad for you at all.. Why? if your going to get the most out of *ANYTHING* in life your going to have to know what your getting into and be fully aware of your actions.. Those who aren't, I can't pity.
With that said.. I'm not saying people shouldn't strive to push manufacturers to fix problems, and being able to read warnings is nice before you buy something.. My biggest problem when I read complaints is, people don't feel the need to warn, express this dislike or try to address their problems..
They want to just run in cry, whine, and then blast the phone as if it killed their children, ate their dog and laughed in their face.
if I could persuade my parents to cover the data plan.. (not happening, they wouldn't even let me pay for it).. Then I'd spring for capt full cash right now..
Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=809471
People ask me about my phone(captivate), and if they should get an iphone or captivate. Simple answer, if your a simple person, and don't like customizing or if your not really tech savvy, then get an iphone. But if you're the complete opposite, then go with an android (this is of course not involving jail breaking)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Mac11700 said:
I feel the same right now about mine. Everyone that has watched any of the hd movies I have loaded says the same...WOW...OMG...that looks awesome..
Does the endless complaining and *****ing do any good..Yes..it does..and while you are quite right in saying this is a great phone..please don't try to silence those who do complain about theirs..they have every right to do so,provided what they are saying is truthfull.
I know many have a hardon for Samsung because of the GPS issue..and also the 3-button recovery fiasco..and people should be made aware of them prior to buying so they can do as I did and get one that works..but..with out all of those B&M'ng threads I most likely would have not known about it..so IMHO they do serve a purpose.
On the good side..I love how fast this phone is,and how great it works..I'll be (hopefully ) even happy when 2.2 or Gingerbread is released..I do recommend them to my friends wanting to get one..and let them know to come here and sign up so they too can learn all about them and all of the great developers work on all of the phones ..This is a great place..with lots of good people working hard to make things even better for us..
Mac
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Click to collapse
They have every right to complain, sure. But does that mean we have to be audience to these continually barrages of people who don't realize they have the choice to get rid of the phone if it doesn't suit them? I understand that we can have concerns, but if they're not handled constructively (ie varying, gps, lag, battery) they're cries should fall on deaf ears because I frankly don't need to hear it. Its been rehashed too many times to merit new threads and is far from necessary.
I come to this forum to get help with minor issues or improvement of my phone which is one I already love over my old 9700. That is why I love reading these kinds of threads where someone instead of injecting negativity into the community is seeking to shine a positive light. So here's to threads that offer help or new ways to improve the experience. Thanks OP glad you're enjoying your phone!
Dankenstein said:
Loving this thread . . . not really as much as I love persistent positivity and gratuitous kindness in general, but almost as much as I love my endearingly imperfect Captivate.
Nice work, '84. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you're way too nice a guy to have bludgeoned to death and buried 83 to earn that nickname.
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Click to collapse
Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
In truth though, it is an engine reference for a "1984 Harley Davidson Shovelhead".
I love my phone. I love it more now that i have angry birds. Would like inter-op words with friends, but there are alternatives. I do wish the "issue" that people complain about gets fixed, but it doesn't bother me. I would barely use it anyway. To much like a leash to me. Did I mention I love my phone.
Shovelhead84 said:
Most people are pleasant and inviting in person then go to the internet to become complete troll nobs. I prefer to be an a repulsive ass in person and make people on the internet believe I am a nice and well adjusted individual. This process makes life more spontaneous and brings a since of humor to Online Dating.
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Click to collapse
That was the best laugh I've had all day!
I love my captivate. I admit to being a bit obsessed with it. I had GPS issues, but that was the ONLY thing I didn't like about the phone. I was hesitant to exchange it because I didn't want to end up with a different set of problems, but I did exchange it.
Now I love my Captivate AND I have a working GPS I use every day
Bob
+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post
this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid
chrisz5z said:
+1
Coming from a jailbroken iPhone 3g, there is no comparison. This is my 1st Android phone and couldn't be happier with it. I've only had it about a month and i've learned a lot, mainly by reading these forums...hence why this is only my 4th post
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Click to collapse
Well, welcome to XDA and to your new mobile experience. Back in my WinMo days I spents weeks reading the Kaiser forums before my first few posts. All the new acronyms and software references can be a bit daunting, even for the savviest of geeks. Luckily I made a smooth transfer by running android ports on my winmo device before fully jumping in.
shadow65781 said:
this phone is so underrated. its as good as or better than any on the market today, yet all you hear is droid droid droid
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Click to collapse
The annoying stab by the general uninformed public is an assumption that "Droid" is the correct term to reference all android devices. I blame Verizon and their conniving marketing department. The failed recognition of your device by a passing stranger does give you an opportunity to politely correct them with a showing of the wondrous features your technologically superior device is capable of.
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
I'm not a developer but did read this already on a posting at Google+.
But you are right, moving into that direction would be very bad.
Some people think they can be rude because they stay anonymous.
Its something that happens more and more these days on the internet.
I realize it's impossible - there are 12 year olds who probably run rampant.
Seems like there is SOMETHING that can be done.
I'm as Pro-Android as they come. But at times it feels like starting a relationship with a beautiful boy/girl only to find they come with a sack load of emotional baggage.
Here's my take on it: http://andgamesdevblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/android-culture-its-own-worst-enemy.html
I am far from giving up (thick skinned) but there is a real troll culture growing and needs to be stomped out. Anonymity has it's uses but, as with everything else, has its drawbacks. What we need is troll hunters!
Paul
(aka Strangemoo)
I have seen that there are some stupid comments on the market... But not so extreme as to take down your app...
Some users is just plain stupid... I'm from Denmark, so a lot of the comments are in danish... But that devs are many times foreign and really don't look or understand the comments... But a lot of them complain about pathetic things like no app 2 sd or that some function suddenly's gone instead of just writing the dev an email about the issue and giving the app the respect it deserves... 1/5 rating is a lot of the times not justified...
Just my 2-cents...
I'm sorry but this is a silly and immature move by the developer. Receiving negative feedback, dealing with trolls and idiotic users that don't understand technology are fundamental assumptions of the internet, just like not giving out your passwords or helping Nigerian princes get their money out of Africa.
I loved ShootMe and used it for our screenshots, but I don't have a lot of empathy for people that empower others to control how they feel.
Wrote about this a few weeks back: http://www.androidstatic.com/what-shootme-removed-from-the-android-market
I work in IT support and one of the things I have to support is phones. It blows my mind how many 10-12 year old kids have nicer phones than I do because their rich mommy and daddys think their precious little angels needs the latest and greatest smart phones. I went over to a client's office a couple of months ago and he had 3 brand new Droid 2s for his kids, ranging from 10-14.
Point of all this?
In this day and age, there are so many rude little kids with nice phones all over these forums, its amazing to me anyone sticks around. Im over 40 and was raised in a different time than these self entitled children I see around here that want everything now, for free and want you to do it for them.
I cant blame the guy for leaving. A lot of times I wish I could go live on an island somewhere where I didnt have to deal with people because most of them suck.
s15274n said:
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a developer, but I was a ShootMe user on my EVO 4G. When it received the upgrade to Gingerbread, the app stopped working. The developer never replied to my email and from reading comments on Market didn't reply to anyone.
He did finally released a new version of ShootMe, but you had to have a computer to use it. Also everytime your reboot your phone, you had to sync everytime with your computer.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Welcome to the "masses".
Want a better experience? Go smaller. Dev for Windows Phone, or Web OS, or RIM.
Once something becomes part of the main stream, you'll see the d-bags start rolling in. Even something like xda can be tarnished once it "gets too big". There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read a thread here that doesn't make me shake my head. This used to be a highly technical forum, back when every devices was htc and running windows mobile.
The only thing that can really be done, is to work with a smaller, more appreciative community. I doubt you would get very many jerk off comments from a Windows Phone user, they are happy to get whatever they can.
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
s15274n said:
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a android developer IMHO the android community is as bad as they come. Xda for example used to be a place of collaboration. Currently its a place where maybe .1% do dev, .9% appreciate the development and try to help, 99% ether complain or say nothing at all. Whether the development is for free or profite(which I won't evev get into here) how is a developer supposed to work off of that? Users would rather right a comment blasting a developer who has literally spent days of his life on some product without even attempting to resolve the issue themselves.
I'm not saying some complaints are not warranted, just saying flip the coin around and its not so hard to understand the developers standpoint.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
There is no denying that there is frustration on both sides. This frustration seems to stem from expectation, communication and control.
The developer expects their customers to be civil.
The users expects the developers to devote anything between some to all of their resources/free time building/making their products better.
Both are unreasonable expectations if you think about it.
Civility can only be maintained in a mediated environment - the Android Market seems only concerned about brand and copyright issues. Google seems to think that it's ok to put its developer behind chicken-wire with lights in their eyes whilst their customers are free to hurl beer bottles at them. Dealing with anony-trolls is time consuming and offputting.
Developers range from teenagers with spare time on their hands up to multi-million dollar development studios. I, myself, am a father of three, I work a full week (we've got to eat!) and I code when time permits. Even though I respond to every request put to my apps, if you think that I'm going to compromise the balance of other areas of my life to put in a bug fix - think again. Sure, some of the more effluent businesses can throw more resources into a project, but just bare in mind that most of us are just people and not doormats. Respect and encouragement is all it takes to make the market a happy place. Flaming just ruins things for all (on both sides).
Communication between devs and end users is and most likely always will be a bit of a sticking point. The fact that everyone has their own opinions, likes, dislikes kind of makes it obvious that there will never be an app with 100% 5 stars. Even the most popular apps on the market have ratings across the board. Though, admittedly, some of the low grades may be down to trolling - but some of them will be genuine. Communication takes time. From a user, it may take a couple of minutes out of their day. For the dev, they may have hundreds a day to deal with. This takes them away from the development that the mail is probably asking for!
A user doesn't, and should never have control over the developer. They should, however, be able to request, beg, plead *nicely*. If they get frustrated then they should remember the phrase 'you get what you pay for'. The developer doesn't get any money when you bought your phone - so don't think they have any obligation to give you something for nothing. If it's a paid app, then the developer is saying 'yes, I'll support it.' That's fair sport.
The developer should have some control over their customers in the sense that a shopkeeper can choose who they let in their shops. Unfortunately they have none. They can't even moderate the comments on the market. I've had a 'GAY - Pointless, uninstall' (his words, not mine) on a free app downloaded 12,000 times and has a 4* rating. I can't do anything about it. It always appears when people go to the page. This individual has hurt my app and me without provocation. I didn't ask anything from them. Fortunately, the following message pointed out that the 'Pointless' user was an idiot (thanks XZombie), hopefully it will negate some of the damage. We're completely at the mercy of the masses, and being a relatively new dev, it's a scary place to be!
It's a shame that the most influential party in all of this is hiding behind a wall of silence.
If you're interested - I'm keeping a track of my experience of Android development. The link is in my earlier post.
Paul
Strangemoo
Paul, I do agree with you to a point. But I'm not sure if I like about developers editing comments. But I do see what you mean about people leaving dumb comments for an app that does work.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Katt,
I don't suggest developers could edit comments - that would make the process equally pointless, as devs can put all of the 'nice' things they want in the description anyway. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
Devs should be able to either remove, request for removal or even block the rogue elements. At present, we have to just live with the insults with no way to disprove their claims. Even a 'troll flag' would be an improvement - to show other users that the dev disagrees with the comment.
All accountability is on the devs whereas trolls can run freely.
Do any other devs out there agree with me on this? Others may have had a much more dealings with such than I have.
Cheers,
Paul
IMO if google was smart they would allow for a limited ammount(% of total) of "submissions" of there comments to a third party(google). If they are found outlandish they can be removed.
My 2 cents lol. I can say as a dev of a few apps on the market I have gotten rediculous comments n 1 stars b4. I mean if they are justified that's a different thing entirely. But my 1 stars are disproportionally higher then the trend of the others. Which proves one thing...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This is an honestly great thread. Good initiative to |OP|
Taking down an app just because of a few nasty comments is just
childish and quite frankly pathetic.
Seems that developer has chucked his toys out the pram, if he does
decide to release it again who is going to trust such a developer?
I know I wouldn't use the app again, seeing as he's stuck 2 fingers up
to loyal users and the whole android community all because of a small
minority of people.
The whole thing stinks of the guy thinking he is above any kind of bad
feedback, obviously a developer that doesn't listen to the users of his
app and a developer that turns his back at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure he will be missed... Not
Ps. there are better screenshot apps out there
I agree with your comment. Though I am not a dev. I have experience working in the retail end of software. This is a I want it now society, folks forget that they got this software/app for free and as soon as they have a little issue they fly off the deep end cussing out the maker/distribitor of the product. Anyhow like you said you get what you pay for.LIke in my IT course in school my book said "check the dummy behind the keyboard" anyhow thanks for the great apps i use the time flies app.
If a dev dropped his customers because of a couple of snide comments then, yeah, I'd agree with you.
But was that the case for ShootMe?
Before we start flinging hooks around here, wouldn't it be more productive to actually find out what happened first.
I may be proven wrong here, but the guy must've been given some serious grief to take such a newsworthy action.
In fact, that's not been mentioned - it could be media storming. Drum up enough publicity and come back blazing. Only time will tell on that one.
At the end of the day, it's his property. And if he makes a lot of people unhappy that's his prerogative. The reason he's giving though are indeed a real issue the community needs to address.
The plot thickens.
(Glad you like Times Flies! You're most welcome)
Paul
I've noticed that the flavor of a community will vary a lot by device. The Captivate community seems to be generally good and helpful for the most part, but I've heard horror stories of ungratefulness and rudeness about communities around other devices. It may be the same sort of thing with different varieties of apps. If people feel like an app performs a function they deserve outright, they may be less inclined to courtesy and more inclined to selfish expectation.
I frequently get asked to root/rom peoples phones(which I enjoy doing for friends).
Lately I've been getting friends of friends and friends of friends friends wanting me to do it for them. Usually I point them here for walk-throughs, however, some are unable/unwilling to follow directions and want me to just do it for them.
Am I a bad person for charging these people?
-I explain what they can and can't do with Root access and with Roms.
-I don't hide how easy it is.
-I explain bricking and how it could very well happen.
-I give them the warranty voiding speech.
The mechanic doesn't build the car part, he just puts it on. With proper education, time, and tools you could do it yourself. They're not paying for the rom, only the service.
I charge people to install OS's, and believe one's time is worth money.
I'm sure you would feel guilty charging them.
However, to me, friends, yes, I can do for them with no hold back, but friends of friends, nah, I wouldn't.
Also, for "unable to do", I might help but for "unwilling to do", not a chance.
I agree. It's essentially the same as someone like BestBuy charging for repairing computers, of course the user could do it themselves, but they choose to pay for the service. Charging for a service is perfectly fine.
No, i dont think it's wrong
I would love it if my phone came rooted. I wish we had more capabilities to have control over our phones, why we pay the big bucks for them anyway.
If I started rooting a bunch of people's phones, I'd definitely charge.
Since it could be time consuming and you're not responsible for their phone and any errors that could happen in the process.
I do. All the hacks and roms are put out free. Why should we charge for something free? It's dishonest.
Sent from my smashed ADR6300 using spaghetti
What's dishonest about asking for compensation for your time and effort? The tools are free, the guides are free, if they want it free - they should do it themselves. I would go so far as to make the clarification that "good" friends i would root for free. "regular" friends would be charged. Why? Because, quite frankly, I have better things to do than sit around and root phones for ungrateful people who don't want to figure it out for themselves. Anyone who wants a rooted phone is more than likely capable of doing it (or researching how to) themselves, but just being too lazy to actually follow through on it. But I also wouldn't rape people on the prices. I'd say nothing unreasonable about charging 25-50 (would vary on closeness of friendship) per phone, or, in the case of actual friends, a lunch or two.
I fall on the side of charging for service. For Friends and family computer work I used to tell them they could pay me whatever they want, and whenever they want, and if they really want, and but I'm happy to help out for free. Rooting most devices is really easy, but not always foolproof. maybe it feels wrong to charge for the easy ones, but wait till you near brick someone's phone and spend hours figuring out what went wrong to bring it back. 20 bucks seems like nothing considering what could happen. If you value your time and knowledge charge something for it. Otherwise no one else will value it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
And to really do right, share the wealth with the developers that make it so easy.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
For my close friend... for me no need to charge them
HTC Desire HD
with
iCeColdSandwich
by LorD ClockaN
I agree with the majority. I'm going to charge to root a phone if its not family or a close friend. A thank you from someone who doesn't really appreciate it and I do.'t see regularly just isn't enough. I am spending part of my life for them, and unlike money, once its spent, its spent, no refunds.
As long as your using tools you made then I see no prob with it. But if you are rooting by methods made by others then you should give 75% of it to the tools developers and keep 25% for your time.
And to be honest if they are not willing to do it them self then maybe they really don't need it done. Mainly if something goes wrong and they try to get their phone fixed only to find that their warranty is voided because you rooted it.
Now I am gonna close this up be fore it becomes a flame fest of people ripping you for using someones free tools to make money.
Thread closed
I wonder if anyone knows if it is possible to root and install a ROM for someone using remote access of some sort. At least maybe be able to explore the file directory or flash something even on an already rooted phone. I could see why Google may have built in something that would block this from being possible though. The only reason I ask is because there are so many times I try to help a friend on FB or twitter who is having a problem with their phone and I would LOVE to be able to help them! Most of them are somewhat technological idiots and I don't want to lose them to the dark side! We all know every brand and model of phone has it's different quirks and problems and issues Most can be easily solved with a little searching here on XDA. I'd love to be able to help a friend install an OS update or a custom ROM so they can enjoy their phone to it's fullest potential the way it's meant to be enjoyed and they won't get that phone The Borg use( I'm sure most of you will get the Star Trek reference)!
Obviously, the potential would be there for people to make money rooting people's phones remotely. I'm sure there are some people that wouldn't be happy about someone making money off an otherwise mostly free Development community and I understand that completely. I do think it would be a great way for a developer to raise money to continue their efforts and possibly bring in enough to quit their other job to devote themselves full-time or at least add a little to their income. My thoughts on that would be this: For one, at least it would be someone with a hands-on knowledge of the particular phone and various ROMS for that phone. People such as Mike's Recognized Users of his ARHD ROM would be perfect candidates for something like this. It would certainly also cut down on the overly repeated questions we all have to deal with in EVERY forum on this site. When Mike puts out a new rom there are 10+ new pages an hour, mostly repeating the same three questions, and you know what those are. If I haven't checked in a couple of days that could be HUNDREDS of posts! I am actually someone who reads as much as I can before I install anything, even a small update. Would be nice to have one post answering all the questions I would have. Repetitive questions lead to FIVE repetitive answers of "search before you post" followed by "I did" and a two page conversation about searching. Ugh!
Of course, there is also the problem of someone who is not fully adept at doing somethin like this and bricking peoples phones without recourse. For sure, it would be tough to identify a qualified person to do this but it could be possible. Now, unfortunately you would also be opening yourself up to a stranger accessing all your files and information that are on your phone. I'm not a developer by any means but I'm sure there could be an app and program created that would allow you access but block any files containing personal information.
Overall I think there would be some definite postives to something like this, as well as negatives that I'm not thinking about. Would love to hear your opinion.
Oh, and if anyone tries to steal my idea and profit by it I'm reserving all rights to the concept right now!
Someone did it
Halfcab123.com
VNC/RDP and do everything from a command prompt.
tony yayo said:
I wonder if anyone knows if it is possible to root and install a ROM for someone using remote access of some sort. At least maybe be able to explore the file directory or flash something even on an already rooted phone. I could see why Google may have built in something that would block this from being possible though. The only reason I ask is because there are so many times I try to help a friend on FB or twitter who is having a problem with their phone and I would LOVE to be able to help them! Most of them are somewhat technological idiots and I don't want to lose them to the dark side! We all know every brand and model of phone has it's different quirks and problems and issues Most can be easily solved with a little searching here on XDA. I'd love to be able to help a friend install an OS update or a custom ROM so they can enjoy their phone to it's fullest potential the way it's meant to be enjoyed and they won't get that phone The Borg use( I'm sure most of you will get the Star Trek reference)!
Obviously, the potential would be there for people to make money rooting people's phones remotely. I'm sure there are some people that wouldn't be happy about someone making money off an otherwise mostly free Development community and I understand that completely. I do think it would be a great way for a developer to raise money to continue their efforts and possibly bring in enough to quit their other job to devote themselves full-time or at least add a little to their income. My thoughts on that would be this: For one, at least it would be someone with a hands-on knowledge of the particular phone and various ROMS for that phone. People such as Mike's Recognized Users of his ARHD ROM would be perfect candidates for something like this. It would certainly also cut down on the overly repeated questions we all have to deal with in EVERY forum on this site. When Mike puts out a new rom there are 10+ new pages an hour, mostly repeating the same three questions, and you know what those are. If I haven't checked in a couple of days that could be HUNDREDS of posts! I am actually someone who reads as much as I can before I install anything, even a small update. Would be nice to have one post answering all the questions I would have. Repetitive questions lead to FIVE repetitive answers of "search before you post" followed by "I did" and a two page conversation about searching. Ugh!
Of course, there is also the problem of someone who is not fully adept at doing somethin like this and bricking peoples phones without recourse. For sure, it would be tough to identify a qualified person to do this but it could be possible. Now, unfortunately you would also be opening yourself up to a stranger accessing all your files and information that are on your phone. I'm not a developer by any means but I'm sure there could be an app and program created that would allow you access but block any files containing personal information.
Overall I think there would be some definite postives to something like this, as well as negatives that I'm not thinking about. Would love to hear your opinion.
Oh, and if anyone tries to steal my idea and profit by it I'm reserving all rights to the concept right now!
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Lol been done already
GNeX
AOKP
FRANCOS LATEST KERNEL
& WHATEVER [MOD AT THE TIME]