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Hi all,
Am a newbie to Android tablets/devices both in terms of hardware and software. So if my post is posted in the wrong thread or reposted pls pardon me. I just want to understand a few basics.
As you all may know, now the market is being flooded by those Chinese made Android tablets. And many of them looks good (at least on paper) and at a very good price. But the problem is most of the time when come to chinese goods, they don't usually do what they claims (if you know what i mean). and the best part most of the salesperson don't know anything about the products they are selling especially when comes to tech gadgets like the Android tablets.
So here i am seeking help from you gurus and hoping i can start my Android journey on the right step. Below are a few questions. Hope I can get answers (links to somewhere where i can read up or anything).
1. What are the conditions (CPU make, firmware, etc) to fulfill if i wan to upgrade/root/hack the original Android OS? Cos most of the chinese made tablets are running on Android 1.5. Hoping to be able to upgrade the OS whenever a newer one comes out. Like the latest 2.1 And be able to download new apps from the apps market.
2. Which CPU chip is better and what are the common CPU chips in the market now? I know there are the Rockchips, VIA, Telechips.
3. Can we tell what are the hardware (CPU make etc) and software (OS/firmware version, etc) that are being used in the device from the system setting or something?
4. I read somewhere that not all CPU chips can be upgraded to the latest OS. i.e. that any upgrade is determined by the CPU chip. Is it true?
5. As for custom ROM, is it also device dependable? Like is there a generic ROM for all devices?
For now these are the questions which are bugging me. Hope the gurus here can enlighten this Android newbie.
Sorry for the long winded post and thanks for any help.
Hmmm. Just check that it is upgradable to froyo and it has more than 500mhz cpu
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
if you are looking for a tablet just get an ipad. the android tablets i see floating around are just 1.5 or 1.6. even if you get a tablet that can do 2.2 (froyo)... i dont see how that can be any better than an ipad.
i just feel that 2.2 isnt meant to be in tablet form. if you can wait... wait for 3.0 before you decide. the main deterrent here is the maximum resolution for android (854 x 480 or something), and that the apps were made with phones in mind.
im very happy with my nexus one... i just cant imagine having a tablet running android as of the moment unless its very very cheap ($200 or so).
i for one will get an ipad next month. my nexus one with wifi tether + the basic wifi ipad will be gadget heaven. looking to get an ipad primarily for reading magazines (zinio) and comic books. android does not have zinio yet. the android comic viewer (ACV) i use on my nexus is ok... but not great. then theres the games. games on android are still so so with less variety and choices.
as a phone the android is great! better than the iphone (yes im an apple user through and through) even. but as a tablet... not quite yet.
Hp is going to release a tablet so is samsung with 2.2
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Hopefully start seeing some of these 2.2 tablets in the 3rd Quarter...
New to Android. But long time user of Linux/RH/Fedora. Are there “distro's” on Android? Can users easily add/remove software with a RPM type management system? In Linux if you don't like TnT you would just uninstall it. Viewsonic g tablet seems to be ok if you manually change a few things. I'm assuming that this is generally a temporary problem due to Viewsonic being behind in their updates. But what I would like to know is there going to be any long term “distro” type leadership going forward? When the new Android Tablet OS is released will it work with most hardware (Viewsonic) like a Linux distro or are we depended on Viewsonic. If Viewsonic let us down can we divorce them and go directly to Android or someone else for automatic updates? Thinking about buying. Can wait for Flash update hopefully in December. Don't see screen as a problem, basically the same as most laptops/netbooks. Can add market manually till it become official with new OS.
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Android is not like normal distros.
Being primarily an OS aimed at mobile devices (IE phones) with limited memory and proprietary layouts and internal set-ups, all drivers can not be provided in one overall install. Confliction between drivers would be an issue as well. Also look at many phones (like the nexus one) the Firmware controlling the cellular radio also controls the camera and encoding of videos and images. There is some common ground, but one ROM will not work on all devices without tweaking for the perticular device. CyanogenMOD ROM is a good example, it works on many devices but you must install the proper version for the device you have.
Also remember that we do not have Root on these devices out of the box, 99% of the time we must find an exploit to gain full access to the device. The Nexus one and the G tablet are the only devices I know of off hand without locked down bootloaders. Cellular carriers want the devices looked down so the users can not use the device in ways that the carriers do not want. (like free tethering)
We are dependant on the manufacturer often times to release source code for the device so Devs can rip out the proper drivers and framework for the device. Often times drivers cross over between android versions making updating easier for the ROM devs.
If you want a device that you can truly tinker with, stick to devices that Google has as Developer models. The old G1 the Nexus One and the upcoming Nexus S. Maybe they will release a Dev tablet as well.
The N900 is more open in that regard as far as being like a true Linux, though the future of that branch seems uncertain. It will defiantly be more niche.
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.
tktim said:
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is running on top of Linux, and given programs compiled for ARM you can install about anything, but there's no X... Framebuffer stuff could potentially work..
But no, if you're looking for a typical Linux desktop environment, this isn't the place to look. Although some of the dual boot Windows/Android tablets makes me wonder how difficult it would be to get it Linux/Android.
Thanks for the additional information.
The dual-form nature of this item would fit a dual-boot scenario perfectly. Boot into Android when used as a tablet, boot into Ubuntu when docked. Just curious as to the possibility of this.
As far as I know, Ubuntu supports ARM architecture, so the Tegra 2 chip should work well with it. Ubuntu 11.04 was just released with the integrated Unity interface, which looks wonderful with the touchscreen: http://unity.ubuntu.com/projects/utouch/
The Unity 2D interface should fly on the Tegra 2, even if the Unity 3D mode lags.
Now I know that on the Xoom, we were able to run Ubuntu on a VNC server and connect to it locally, but that is obviously not an ideal solution, due to VNC's weakness, and the general inefficiency of it.
Are there any devs working on something like this so far? I am sure there would be a very sizable audience for something like this. I'd be happy to do any necessary testing, and I'm sure more will as well. I also wouldn't mind taking this as an opportunity to get involved with the dev community (I have a thorough background in CS, just no experience with this specifically), I'd be happy if anyone were to take me under their wing. =)
You're not the only one hoping for this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1053641
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Dual booting Ubuntu and Android would make this the perfect device for me.
i would also love the ability to run linux on mine
I'm tempted to wait until this is guaranteed to happen before buying this thing. I need a new portable device for developing on the go, and I also want and need a Honeycomb device for testing apps and casual content consumption.
At the same time though, if anyone knows of a site or thread dedicated to making this dual-boot happen (similar to the dedicated Toshiba AC100 page here http://tosh-ac100.wetpaint.com/page/Ubuntu ), I wouldn't mind learning all about it and potentially help if I can, so please share.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA App
There are some devs who definitely pulled this off on the Atrix and I had Ubuntu on my phone so I'm sure we can get it on the transformer. I'll try to find them and see if similar methods can be used.
It'll take years but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If I can do this on my old ass wm6.5 phone then it's possible on the TF!
Maybe it wont take years, but more of these tablets have to hit the market. Still so many people waiting on their preorders, me included.
I think that there might be quite the interest in making this happen. I remember reading somewhere that Ubuntu allready runs on the Tegra2, so why should it be far into the future before we see it running on the Transformer?
Sorry for any typos. I have fat fingers, a 4" screen, a small child and a dictionary gone wild...
here's to hoping
So far i'm quite impressed with this little tablet. It crunches bytes as fast as i can throw them, and customizing it was easy enough. Although with the dock station and Tegra 2 it does feel more like a netbook than a tablet.
Android 3.0 IMO is the best compromise between a desktop and mobile phone OS. Although it's expandability is not quite what i would wish it to be. Possibly once more developers gear their programs for the higher resolutions and more powerful CPUs this will change. For now dual booting Ubuntu and Android would be perfect.
I'm on board with any project coming about to make this happen, and would offer up my hardware and feedback for beta testing. Hope to see a dedication in this direction soon!
Has anyone tried the method in the xoom development forums?
Sent from HTC Inspire 4G via XDA Premium.
gordec said:
Has anyone tried the method in the xoom development forums?
Sent from HTC Inspire 4G via XDA Premium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen the post, but I'm assuming you mean VNC?
Zach Alt said:
I haven't seen the post, but I'm assuming you mean VNC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's VNC. That's not that hard, we're talking about straight booting INTO Ubuntu.
i have this image from my desire, which boots linux xlde (or something) i cant get it to connect to that image. Pockecloud just get Server disconnected.... maybe another image.. actually that was loading it from removable MicroSD, im now going to try copying to the internal memory "SDCARD" as that would be what the script would have orignally been setup for. I will post results as soon as this has finished pasting the files...
EDIT: still cant get this to work, seems like terminal is ending too quickly which i think means the loopback memory doesnt work, i think thats how it works anyway.
No lock with WYSE pocket cloud or android vnc, i think we need another build for honeycomb, well not so much the OS but the Tegra chip instead.
ubuntuforums.org
There is a thread over at ubuntuforums.org regarding this matter, though they have a different take on it.
One of the posts state:
Re: Asus Eee Pad Transformer
I plan to get one (not available in my region yet, plus I hear there'll be a 3G version next quarter) and install Ubuntu on it, albeit with KDE/Gnome instead of Unity.
There's not technical reason it can't run Ubuntu, it's just a matter of getting the boot loader working. The instructions seem simple enough, although dual booting with Android might be a little more challenging.
If anyone does get one and install Ubuntu on it, please let us know how it goes.
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Click to collapse
Maybe it's not all that farfetched getting Ubuntu to run on this device, or any other Tegra2 base tablet.
The original thread can be found at:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1741103&highlight=eee+pad+transformer&page=1
looks like dual booting may be fairly difficult; I wouldn't mind soloing ubuntu touch os on mine...
I think dual booting may be difficult, but I think chain booting (right terminology?) from Android first and then into Ubuntu would probably be possible.
I don't think many people understand how hard it will be to create a bootable version of Ubuntu. VNCing is easy for the most part.
Would it be possible to use the motorola xoom guide to get ubuntu running with vnc on the eee transformer?
Sorry for any typos. I have fat fingers, a 4" screen, a small child and a dictionary gone wild...
Is the VNC version that bad? Is it very slow or the picture is not full color? I'd like to use it maybe for Open Office (or something lighter) and some programming in text editor.
Looks like there has been significant progress on this. backtrack has been released for arm.. its a security-centric distro, but its built on an ubuntu base.
I'm downloading the img now.. dont know about dual boot though. guess someone needs to port grub over first =)
I cant post links....but a search for 'backtrack5 xoom' should get you there.
Hello everyone, I know this is a long shot but: is anyone interested in porting Android to this excellent eBook Reader?
Device description is here: http://www.bookeen.com/en/cybook/odyssey
It is basically a Nook Touch Simple/Sony PRS T1 like device that features a very fast e-Ink display (amazingly fast for an e-Ink) and should support some tablet like use (browsing the web, reading a RSS feed) quite well. You can see here and here what HSIS (High Speed Ink System) can do.
Stock version is using a Linux 2.6.31 based OS (doesn't specify what flavor)
From the little I know the main problems with porting a Android whould be:
- possible locked bootloader on the Cybook Odyssey -> no way to know without the device
- supported chipset -> an ARM A8 based chipset is listed
- display drivers -> maybe those from regular pearl e-Ink can be used?
- wi-fi drivers -> again, depends on the chipset
I'm out of my league (php, web stuff) here but I plan to buy the device next month if there's hope for it
Ideas?
Hi!
I would point out, before getting your hopes up on the porting, the fact that you asked just one day after the launch of the device, makes one think that you're thoughts are audaciously early. So unless some xda-developers are Bokeen insiders and, ahem, unbound by their job to work on this matter, either waiting or is the thing to do. Or, ahem, , learning how to port?
The chances I see for this port to happen are small (but than again still possible). Perhaps we could see if the linux running it might offer more flexibility and run apps directly (?). Porting would would have it's obvious advantages ... an Android with it's screen technology superior to any current eInk readers, except the Mirasol powered ones perhaps (those are limited to Korea for now) would we awesome.
csioucs said:
Hi!
I would point out, before getting your hopes up on the porting, the fact that you asked just one day after the launch of the device, makes one think that you're thoughts are audaciously early. So unless some xda-developers are Bokeen insiders and, ahem, unbound by their job to work on this matter, either waiting or is the thing to do. Or, ahem, , learning how to port?
The chances I see for this port to happen are small (but than again still possible). Perhaps we could see if the linux running it might offer more flexibility and run apps directly (?). Porting would would have it's obvious advantages ... an Android with it's screen technology superior to any current eInk readers, except the Mirasol powered ones perhaps (those are limited to Korea for now) would we awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there any news on debugging and or development possibilities on that platform? I have seen the gpl'ed linux source released at bookeen's site.
I have yet not found any pictures of a disassembled device and do not know if customized firmware updates are possible.
Would very much appreciate any news on that topic!
NonsenseInc said:
Is there any news on debugging and or development possibilities on that platform? I have seen the gpl'ed linux source released at bookeen's site.
I have yet not found any pictures of a disassembled device and do not know if customized firmware updates are possible.
Would very much appreciate any news on that topic!
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I would also be interested in customized firmware for cybook odyssey. thanks
Any news on this anybody?
Anyone still watching this? I'd like to try to do it, but it's over my head, skill wise...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
thirstythirsty said:
Anyone still watching this? I'd like to try to do it, but it's over my head, skill wise...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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I know that internally some version of android ran on the device, but it's really not worth to do this. Android is absolutely not suited for such device and screen.
To install personalised linux/software, first crack the update format, then the device will be open to you...
Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!
wasserprojekt said:
Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!
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Click to collapse
That's sort of what project treble is.
Project Treble
The Android 8.0 release includes Project Treble, a major re-architect of the Android OS framework designed to make it easier, faster, and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android. Treble is for all new devices launching with Android 8.0 and beyond.
forum.xda-developers.com
I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.
wasserprojekt said:
I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.
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Yes and the only way it might work is trebel. Because treble handles lot of the problems involved with booting newer androids on older systems.
You can run linux on older Androids or even Windows XP.
How to install a Linux desktop on your Android device
Get even more from your Android device by running a desktop OS! Lots of options including Debian (no root), Ubuntu, and Kali Linux.
www.androidauthority.com
Running Windows XP on Android
No rooting or custom modifications needed, we’re going to do this with stock Android and a few free (but high-quality) apps.
centerorbit.medium.com
Also, it's not that the OS gets deprecated, it's that the applications like Google Play services which become heavier as years go by.
Degoogled-Android on my Android ICS phone worked fine till it's screen got busted. With Google Play services, it was impossible to install any app since its paltry 400MB storage was extended/
Thanks for your answers!
Running other OSes via VNC is just meant to use the devices as mere thin clients, and that was not the objective.
The Project Treble will never be as widespread as it should be, because Google is obviously not interested in making phones last longer (they want more devices to be sold). Of course I was not talking about devices 10 years old, more about 5yrs. They have specs good enough to run contemporary Android and most of non-entertainment apps.
The obstacles to being able to do this are artificial. The problem is there are no drivers and project Treble does not address this in any meaningful way. Manufacturers aren't interested in this too because they want to sell more chips. So the only way it came to my mind it could work was by running a very light VM with an older Android for which the components' drivers were available. Of course main components would still have to be compatible with newer Android, such as the SOC. But things such as wi-fi, camera... could be bridged from a VM, I believe.
Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?
Well, after a long time, for those who where curious about this thread: the project Halium is exactly what was in my mind. If I'm not wrong, it basically consists in a minimal Android rom running on a Virtual Machine which then interfaces with any Linux distro, effectively giving the phone the ability to run a (more or less) updated version of Linux kernel and, therefore, many Linux distros. https://docs.halium.org/en/latest/project/Scope.html
hkjo said:
Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, and I believe Halium just works on phones which are minimally supported by Linux kernel drivers (like basic SoCs). But all those other hardware parts, like GPS, Wi-Fi, Camera... can be brought to life this way, I think.
Thanks for your insight!