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Dealing with Evo users who disable network-based location services

For the past few days, I've been dealing with what appears to be a disproportionately huge group of Evo owners (relative to other Android phones) who've been having crashes with an app I wrote that appear to be caused by the unavailability of network-based location services. I did some research, and it looks like a LOT of Evo owners have been doing things that (temporarily?) disable network-based location services in an attempt to keep the battery from dying too quickly.
Are Evo users who do this literally going into Settings and disabling network-based location services outright, or are there one or more apps/hacks that supposedly disable it only when "it's not being used"? If there are, what does an app that depends on network-based location services have to do to make sure that whatever is supposedly enabling network-based location services "when necessary" realizes that it is, in fact, necessary... and do it in a way that won't cause the lookup request to prematurely or needlessly fail?
Like I've said, I've had a few users with other phones have problems due to the app's current absolute dependency on the availability of network-based location services... but with Evo owners, it's more like a nonstop hailstorm of complaints. Rewriting the way the app handles location to eliminate that absolute dependency is my next major project, but it's going to take me at least a week or two to finish, and in the meantime I'd love to be able to find a temporary solution that I can patch and release tonight that will solve the worst of the problem for the majority of Evo users in the meantime.

Speak up brother. What is the App (so people who don't have the slightest clue as to how to relate your user name with the buggy app you have)?

I'm not sure why anyone would do this, aside from "privacy" concerns... It will not help with battery life on it's own. If your GPS is turned off, your device gets it's relative location via the cell phone tower's coordinates. This information gets transmitted to your phone regardless if you have it disabled to accept it.
They are probably thinking that if they disable it, other services won't try to update information based on your location. Instead they should just adjust any services that are auto-updating.
I can go >24hours before I need to charge my phone with moderate usage throughout the day (without using 4G). I can post SystemPanel screenshots if anyone is interested.

mattrb said:
Speak up brother. What is the App (so people who don't have the slightest clue as to how to relate your user name with the buggy app you have)?
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OK, if it makes you happy, I didn't personally write it that way. It's a legacy app I'm helping to fix. In the meantime, I'm trying to put out as many fires as quickly as I can. That said, I'm not going to condemn the original author. All things considered, it was a perfectly reasonable decision for him to make. It was his first major Android programming project, and his immediate runtime environment was a Droid on Verizon. 99% of his Android-owning friends were Sprint or Verizon. For the most part, on Sprint & Verizon, network-based location services work really well. The app's dependency on them didn't really bubble to the surface as anything more than likely user error until lots of non-Americans started showing up with phones that couldn't be automatically assumed to have inseparably-bundled mandatory data service.
Truth be told, America is a lot like Japan -- cellular networks that are almost proprietary to the national market and work in ways that aren't necessarily consistent with the way things work elsewhere in the world, but utterly ubiquitous and totally dominant within it. I'm sure that right now, plenty of Japanese developers are writing Android apps that assume every phone supports network-level low-latency "Push to Talk" capabilities (IDEN's "killer app"), or some other feature that's ubiquitous in Japan and (almost) unheard of elsewhere. Six months from now, they're going to be scratching their heads wondering why it crashes on every phone in Europe and most phones in America (Sprint, and I think Verizon, try to emulate IDEN's PTT on CDMA by buffering the audio stream on a server, then sending a SMS to the recipient's phone that triggers its download and streaming a couple of seconds later).
Anyway, I digress. Getting back to the original question, are Evo owners who disable network location doing it manually, or are they doing it in a way that can be worked with cooperatively by apps in order to get it to automatically turn it back on when needed?
Actually, I have theory #2 about why Evo owners might be having problems, but it's pure speculation at this point. I'm wondering whether there might be Evo owners who've explicitly disabled EV-DO and 1xRTT to try and force the phone to use WiMax in areas where it might otherwise try to fall back to the older modes, and the possibility that even NON-network location service DEPENDS on EV-DO/1xRTT for aGPS data transmission of the raw telemetry data. In a way, it makes sense... the WiMax network is totally parallel to the CDMA2000 network, and it's not inconceivable that there might BE no data route between the Sprint WiMax network and the servers that handle aGPS queries. Especially if there aren't any real-world locations where Sprint WiMax is available, but CDMA2000 data is not.

If you go into the settings you can disable the network location, but there are ways for an app to ask if the user wants to turn the setting back on.
Evo owners can't disable 1xRTT otherwise standard calls and text messages won't work anymore. They can change settings if they have their MSL code such that EVDO isn't ever used however.

Well, maybe "disable" is a strong term. I know that on a Hero, there's a network setting somewhere that allows you to tell the phone, "Use EV-DO, or don't do data at all". It doesn't affect the operation of voice or sms -- only the phone's willingness to fall back to 1xRTT for internet access if EV-DO isn't available. I'm assuming the Evo has a similar setting that goes a step further and lets you dictate "WiMax or Nothing".
Here's how it could theoretically affect location services: obviously Sprint does aGPS. By law, it HAS to do it for e911 purposes. HOWEVER, I think that non-e911 aGPS lookups on Android phones get diverted through Google (or at least an aGPS service hosted by Google) unless you pay Sprint extra for navigation service. Under those conditions, if you told the phone to use ONLY WiMax for internet access, and you were in an area where only EV-DO and/or 1xRTT data were available, you could have a situation where the phone can do e911 location, but wouldn't necessarily have that info available for use by other applications (vis-a-vis most of HTC's WinMo 6 phones). If the phone couldn't use WiMax, and the user dictated "WiMax or Nothing", the phone couldn't reach Google. Without Google, there'd be no free aGPS for Android apps to consume.
The above is pure speculation, of course. As a practical matter, Sprint itself can't/won't give a coherent explanation of where the line gets drawn between Sprint and Google for (a)GPS service, which makes troubleshooting location-related problems that much more fun. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if late-model HTC phones DO have 100% of the hardware onboard to turn satellite telemetry into latitude/longitude/altitude coordinates, but the underlying software fails without realtime network connectivity anyway because it still tries to involve a server somewhere for some reason.

Look, this is what happens to me and I think it's a bug.
When I turn off GPS for a while, like for 12 hours, and then I turn it on, I still see the "Location" icon crossed out. At first I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was the GPS icon, but it wasn't, it was the location services being turned off.
So I reproduced it several times and this is what happens. When you turn off GPS for a while, the location setting will be turned off also, and it will remain off even after you turn on the GPS again. Which IS A BUG. That's not an expected behavior. So you may be right.

baiatul said:
Look, this is what happens to me and I think it's a bug.
When I turn off GPS for a while, like for 12 hours, and then I turn it on, I still see the "Location" icon crossed out. At first I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was the GPS icon, but it wasn't, it was the location services being turned off.
So I reproduced it several times and this is what happens. When you turn off GPS for a while, the location setting will be turned off also, and it will remain off even after you turn on the GPS again. Which IS A BUG. That's not an expected behavior. So you may be right.
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My experience doesn't mirror that at all. When I turn GPS on (which I am impressed to say has it finding satellites many times faster than my old HTC Fuze) the location disabled icon changes almost immediately. I saw this a lot over last weekend when I was doing a lot of phone based navigation.

Yes, I forgot, I'm in NY, and in Manhattan very strange things happen when you go in and out the subway with signal and no signal several times a day for periods of time from minutes to an hour.
Many programs that are expected to work crash when there is no signal. Or when you run applications in the subway with no signal, the gadget freezes sometimes. Maybe this GPS thing is also one of those glitches. Maybe it's a combination of turning on or off the GPS, and then the loss of signal for a while. It still happens to me, but I got used: every time I turn back on the GPS after being disabled for MANY HOURS (12? 24?), I have to turn back on the Location setting.

merak69 said:
I'm not sure why anyone would do this, aside from "privacy" concerns...
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I turned off network location services for one simple reason....using it caused my location to off by at least 1/2 mile. So it seemed pretty useless to me.

pixelpop said:
I turned off network location services for one simple reason....using it caused my location to off by at least 1/2 mile. So it seemed pretty useless to me.
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It's basing your location on the information from the cell phone tower. It isn't meant to give you a precise location like GPS can (this is why its called aGPS). The point is to give a general location so that apps that need to know what city you are in (weather apps for example) can figure it out to show you information for where you currently are.
If you want precise information, turn on full GPS and you are good to go.
My point was disabling location services entirely will not save you any more battery life vs leaving network location on (excluding full GPS obviously). What will save you battery is turning off your other services (Facebook, Twitter, News, etc) to only update when you manually say so or setting their update schedules to much longer frequencies.
Here's how it could theoretically affect location services: obviously Sprint does aGPS. By law, it HAS to do it for e911 purposes. HOWEVER, I think that non-e911 aGPS lookups on Android phones get diverted through Google (or at least an aGPS service hosted by Google) unless you pay Sprint extra for navigation service. Under those conditions, if you told the phone to use ONLY WiMax for internet access, and you were in an area where only EV-DO and/or 1xRTT data were available, you could have a situation where the phone can do e911 location, but wouldn't necessarily have that info available for use by other applications (vis-a-vis most of HTC's WinMo 6 phones). If the phone couldn't use WiMax, and the user dictated "WiMax or Nothing", the phone couldn't reach Google. Without Google, there'd be no free aGPS for Android apps to consume.
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Click to collapse
Your phone doesn't communicate with Google. Sprint has their own aGPS servers but I think you might misunderstand what their purpose is. The "a" part of aGPS means Assisted, but only assisted in the fact of giving the chip the information it needs to lock on to the true GPS signals faster based on your current location.
For example: If you used a GPS device that wasn't assisted and its known internal satellite database was out of date, it'd have to search for awhile to location any/all satellites in the sky. On the flip side, an assisted chip can use the network server to download satellite info (ids, frequencies, etc) to show which satellites are visible for your given rough location. This enables hardware lock to happen faster.
However those aGPS servers are optional since the chip has a hybrid mode of operation:
a) If you have true GPS on, obviously it uses GPS to determine your location, down to potentially 3-4 meters.
b) If the chip can't get a satellite lock or you have true GPS turned off, the chip uses multiple known tower locations in combination to triangulate your location (based on signal strength to known towers). The fewer the towers it has access to, the less and less accurate your known location becomes. This works even with 3G and 4G disabled because it transmits the data over 1xRTT (you can easily test this in Google Maps).
In the second situation (b), I've seen where tower triangulation has narrowed my location down to 100 meters. I've also seen where it can't get a lock on multiple towers reliably such that the chip puts my "center" location as the actual location of the tower with an accuracy rating of 2000 meters. This is what Pixelpop is mentioning above about accuracy.

merak69 said:
Your phone doesn't communicate with Google. Sprint has their own aGPS servers but I think you might misunderstand what their purpose is. The "a" part of aGPS means Assisted, but only assisted in the fact of giving the chip the information it needs to lock on to the true GPS signals faster based on your current location.
For example: If you used a GPS device that wasn't assisted and its known internal satellite database was out of date, it'd have to search for awhile to location any/all satellites in the sky. On the flip side, an assisted chip can use the network server to download satellite info (ids, frequencies, etc) to show which satellites are visible for your given rough location. This enables hardware lock to happen faster.
However those aGPS servers are optional since the chip has a hybrid mode of operation:
a) If you have true GPS on, obviously it uses GPS to determine your location, down to potentially 3-4 meters.
b) If the chip can't get a satellite lock or you have true GPS turned off, the chip uses multiple known tower locations in combination to triangulate your location (based on signal strength to known towers). The fewer the towers it has access to, the less and less accurate your known location becomes. This works even with 3G and 4G disabled because it transmits the data over 1xRTT (you can easily test this in Google Maps).
In the second situation (b), I've seen where tower triangulation has narrowed my location down to 100 meters. I've also seen where it can't get a lock on multiple towers reliably such that the chip puts my "center" location as the actual location of the tower with an accuracy rating of 2000 meters. This is what Pixelpop is mentioning above about accuracy.
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You're correct that aGPS doesn't go through Google. It's presumably handled by the radio and Android is never aware of it at all.
Cell tower location/triangulation is different however. The OP is correct that it does go through Google, as the US CDMA carriers are totally unwilling to allow outside access to this information like GSM carriers do. Google built and maintains their own database of tower info, and that is what populates your rough location in Android. It is not aGPS data from Sprint's servers that is allowing that.

You want a hack? Well use the last known position, if it's historical then post a message "wtf turn on location services, if you want picture phone to work".
The app may not work but it won't crash as it has a location. More so it blames the user. lol
Post a little line to the location service enable semaphore, "who turned off the lights?"

You can get location assisted position from Wi-Max just like you can get it off Wi-Fi. As far as I know there is no app to disable Mobile Network Location on demand. If your having issues with it than users are going in and disabling it by hand through the settings. The problem probably is that 90% of the know it all bloggers advise to disable network position because they think it does something for battery life.
I'm also willing to bet good money that Google is handling the network location. Why else would they have a location server(supl.google.com). Only to let Nokia users use it?
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I've noticed that there are areas where the GPS doesn't work, even outside with no sky obstacles. One of them is on 113 st. between Broadway and Amsterdam avenue (NYC), right next to a building tagged "Cell Motion Laboratories." I've been there twice since I have EVO and the GPS is off like 10 buildings when I'm in the building next door. From outside, it just looks like any other Columbia University residence.
(Yes, my location settings were enabled and GPS was on).
ZIP 10027.
I just searched that lab, and it has nothing to do with cellphones, but with real cells (biological lab for kids, I think).

bedoig said:
You're correct that aGPS doesn't go through Google. It's presumably handled by the radio and Android is never aware of it at all.
Cell tower location/triangulation is different however. The OP is correct that it does go through Google, as the US CDMA carriers are totally unwilling to allow outside access to this information like GSM carriers do. Google built and maintains their own database of tower info, and that is what populates your rough location in Android. It is not aGPS data from Sprint's servers that is allowing that.
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Click to collapse
What you are talking about for triangulation is software level functionality part of Google Maps and Google Maps only and yes it contacts their servers to try and guess where you are. Google does build out their own "database of tower info" just like they collect all sorts of other statistical information (you agree to this when you turn on location services), but part of the aGPS standard is that every cell phone tower, GSM or CDMA, transmits its coordinates to your handset.
What I'm talking about is all strictly in the hardware, but perhaps the word "triangulation" was the incorrect choice of word when talking about aGPS, however it is similar... The aGPS functionality in our phones is tightly integrated into the radio chip (Qualcomm RTR6500 CDMA2000) and this chip does not need to contact Google or Sprint to determine your rough location from a tower (turn off all internet access and you'll see what I mean). It can contact Sprints servers through the network (when it is able) to further plot your location based on the data transmitted to/from the aGPS server.

When you first use the EVO, there is a screen that asks if you want to share anonymous location data. That setting is also tied to network-based location services. That is, if you disable anonymous location sharing, it also disables NBLS entirely. You can thank either Google or HTC (not sure which) for their greed on that one.

I just checked and mine was set to off. not sure what sets it to that as I never touch that setting.
Just adding my 2 cents.

AT&T Mark the Spot app is GPS fix

Download this app from market, start it, it ALWAYS locks on immediately, then start google navigation. No workarounds, no fiddling with gps settings, no cursing samsung, no sh*t!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Really? Straight from the market quote:
"AT&T Mark the Spot is an application that provides customers a means to provide feedback on network user experience on AT&T"
How does this affect GPS?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

cappysw10 said:
Really? Straight from the market quote:
"AT&T Mark the Spot is an application that provides customers a means to provide feedback on network user experience on AT&T"
How does this affect GPS?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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It sends AT&T information on signal strength, etc. as well as your GPS location, so they can fine tune connectivity issues in that area. So it does have to do with GPS stuff. I suppose it's possible that it fixes the GPS stuff too, temporarily. Anyone else want to test and verify?

I installed the AT&T app and tried it and it worked! I haven't been able to get a GPS lock inside my house since I bought this thing, but I got one sitting in my office here in about 10 seconds. Launched the AT&T app first, then went to Maps and it popped right up. Until Samsung/AT&T can push a fix, I think this will work as a good work-around. Thanks!

I tried it and at first I thought it worked, but I had wiring on, so it was just using thuat... I turned it off and it returned to being four or more blocks away from where I am with a massive blue circle covering almost my entire town. Sigh.

cappysw10 said:
Really? Straight from the market quote:
"AT&T Mark the Spot is an application that provides customers a means to provide feedback on network user experience on AT&T"
How does this affect GPS?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
When you click Install, it says:
This application has access to the following:
Your Location
coarse (network-based) location, fine (GPS) location
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Click to collapse
So I'd say it has something to do with GPS.......
that being said, I haven't seen an immediate change as the OP said, but I'll give it some time and not slam this based on the first 2 minutes of using it!

I installed it and using both wifi and gps settings it's still off by 5 miles! Come on AT&T/Samsung get you act together.
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The app probably set the GPS to 'MS Assited' mode because it needs the raw sat data and caculate your location from the server end, instead of on your phone. That's why it is fast and accurate (as long as you're not moving much). But it won't really cure your GPS problem because you will need your GPS on standalone or MS Based mode for your Nav app.

this is looking like it works, folks..... I have the GPS recommended fix settings from the stickied thread, and I'm getting good results with this! Connects fast and has not lost signal while driving - two very common issues people are having.... I haven't had anything to complain over, especially if you understand that you can't open and close a bunch of apps that use GPS at once while the other is trying to get a lock - for the first time EVER, Seesmic was able to find my location to post a tweet while indoors at home, it sure didn't do that before downloading this app!

GarciaM25 said:
When you click Install, it says:
So I'd say it has something to do with GPS.......
that being said, I haven't seen an immediate change as the OP said, but I'll give it some time and not slam this based on the first 2 minutes of using it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That permission request message actually a pretty good indicator that it goes through the same api that every other gps app on the market goes through. (locationProvider methods) I dont see how it could do anything...but hey who knows.

Tried it. Still not accurate. Off by approximately 4-6 blocks. I'm in my house with one/two bar's on 3g.

I've been telling samsung about this for about a week now. They have passed the info to their R&D folks working on the GPS issue.

Doesn't do a thing for me.
I'm pretty sure that the GPS software issues are at a lower level. All the apps that use location based services (Google Maps, Navigate, Yelp, Around Me, etc.) can use the same functions to activate the GPS and obtain a location. It is VERY unlikely that an app will write it's own low-level code to operate the GPS hardware - mostly because it costs more money to develop in that manner. Also, as a developer it's usually better to assume that existing code has been tested and is safe to re-use.

its from att so its not a fix
sent from a 42 node T.I. 89 cluster

I changed my gps server to supl.google.com and that with gps test (From the app store) really helps you lock on. If it locks usually pretty quick 20-30 secs its less than 16 feet... Lock first with gps test and then navigation... Locks 80% of the time pretty quickly and you see the triangulation of the satellites. Faster if you are outside obviously.....

I cant find this app neither the Market or AppBrain . Could you guide me to install the Mark the Spot. Tks

batis said:
I cant find this app neither the Market or AppBrain . Could you guide me to install the Mark the Spot. Tks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try the AT&T app center in the market.
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Thanks for the recommendation. Unfortunately, at this point I think my GPS is completely borked.
I had been using Runkeeper to prime my GPS for a couple days, but that stopped working. Mark the Spot isn't giving me a lock either. I'm outside on a clear day, and it's been trying to lock for about six minutes. Position Test is reporting eight satellites in view, but no dice.
It's great when these workarounds work, but it will be nice if and when Samsung is able to fix this.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I89dice7 using XDA App

Have read similar results in other forums about firing up AT&T Navigator, but not accepting EULA and starting Google Maps? Pretty close, but nowhere near acuracy of any three previous HTC devices I have owned. I also didn't update Google Maps as recommended elsewhere also

Flashed my phone to the JH3 firmware with SRE 1.2.1a and tayutama lag fix ext2. So far ive been getting gps lock in under 5 seconds outside and at the most 15 seconds inside my house or job with 5 meter accuracy. Still a little lag with the gps while using google navigation, but like 200% better then when i first got the phone.

GPS Fix - new possible settings

This might be my first post ever, however, long time lurker on the boards.
I think I have a potential fix for the GPS issue with the Captivate. I don’t think this is the same as the “quick fix” found elsewhere on these and other the boards. I am not sure what (if any) 'side effects' there are to this.
My phone previously had the AT&T/Samsung fix from late September applied, although it didn’t seem to help.
Get to the Lbs test menu; previous available through *#*#1472365#*#*. However, if you previously installed the recent AT&T/Samsung (supposed fix) for the Captivate, you can’t get to the menu through the dialer. Use Anycut from market to get to the Lbs test screen.
My GPS now gets a great lock about 30 seconds.
BTW, I am not root….
YMMV. You should record your original settings prior to making these changes, just in case you need to revert.
Standard Disclaimer; I am not at fault for any issues this causes your device…..
Now, down to the settings that I use:
In Lbs test menu:
I “deleted GPS data”
Application Settings
– Session Type: Tracking
– Test Mode : S/W Test
– Operation Mode: MS Based
– Start Mode: Cold Start
– GPS Plus: Off
– Dynamic Accuracy: On
– Accuracy: 50
– Use Skyhook: Off
– Use PC Tool: Off
SUPL/CP Settings
- Server FQDN Type: Auto Config
- Server [leave what is autopulated]
- Server Port [leave was is autopopulated]
- Supl Secure Socket: On
- AGPS Mode: SUPL
Reboot.
Use GPS Test from Market, or the The “Get Position Test” menu from Lbs screen to validate.
WIFI Problem:
One thing I have noticed is that depending on the settings above, wifi (if on) sometimes inhibits the ability to see more than 1 satellite. I think the problems with GPS are overall related to Wifi in some way.
If you do not have luck with above settings, turn wifi off and see what happens.

I only had to change a couple of the settings but this is working nicely so far...Ill try again over the next day or so in various situations and report back.
Changed:
Op Mode to MS Based
Start Mode to Cold
Turned off GPS Plus
Secure Socket to off
Thanks!

I'll admit some of this seems counter-intuitive, but at this point anything is worth a shot.I'll let you know how it goes!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

You don't need to download anything to access the Lbs test. Just type *#*#3214789650#*#* in the dialer and you will get access. Works with JH7 and Froyo.

Before anyone else reads this and declares their GPS fixed, they should read at least the first post of this thread completely. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=789383 If you understand what is being said by that post, then you can offer GPS solutions. The only thing you have changed is AGPS settings. While those settings will get you a lock, they don't help out with accuracy. If you really want to test your GPS, you have to turn off the use wireless networks feature, take it outside and see how well it works then.
Everything that has been said in this thread has been said elsewhere and is not a solution.

Nope, it's definitely not fixed...but it did give me a better lock than before. Same old...
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Well if its not a fix then it is most definitely better...I can get a lock in ~20 seconds where as before it might not even come close.

l7777 said:
Before anyone else reads this and declares their GPS fixed, they should read at least the first post of this thread completely. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=789383 If you understand what is being said by that post, then you can offer GPS solutions. The only thing you have changed is AGPS settings. While those settings will get you a lock, they don't help out with accuracy. If you really want to test your GPS, you have to turn off the use wireless networks feature, take it outside and see how well it works then.
Everything that has been said in this thread has been said elsewhere and is not a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Additionally, a lock is not enough to say it works. Take it for a drive along with another GPS device - use Google my tracks or some other tool to record your path. Even use GPS test and watch your MPH, direction and location.
You will find that it is not fixed. It works OK sometimes, but many times it is behind or inaccurate.

msinkovich said:
Well if its not a fix then it is most definitely better...I can get a lock in ~20 seconds where as before it might not even come close.
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Click to collapse
You will have to do that every week as your cached GPS data expires. And you can literally use any settings as long as you can use the lbstestmode to accquire a lock. That's all you need to do (accquire your first lock and it will cache the data for 5 to 7 days).

Any "fix" that involves "settings" isn't a "fix" at all since it demonstrates an utter lack of what the real problem is and how GPS fundamentally works.
The real "fix" won't come in the form of settings. Any purported settings "fix" is snake oil.

I've given up on GPS a while ago.
It's a fringe feature anyway.

I never have "use wireless networks on" and gps works good enough. It may not be perfect but everytime ive used it it has got me where i need to go no problems. It may jump off track or be slow to turn for a second but it still gets me to wherever just fine.
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If I read this correctly your turning off skyhook ? I read this http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/, and to me you need it turned on for urban areas and in the city need wi-fi turned on because of the occlusions caused by buildings and such...?
Mac

roadrash7 said:
I never have "use wireless networks on" and gps works good enough.
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Click to collapse
That option has nothing to do with GPS. 'Use Wireless Networks' is actually quite useful for location aware apps like Google Maps, Places, Speed Test etc. where an accurate but slow GPS lock may not be needed (or even possible if you're underground or inside a concrete building). This option enables those apps to use cell tower or wi-fi signal trianglation to get a quick estimation of your current location so that apps can give you relavent information, i.e. nearby gas stations or resaurants. It has nothing to do with aGPS either.

MikeyMike01 said:
I've given up on GPS a while ago.
It's a fringe feature anyway.
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Click to collapse
You have to be kidding saying its a feature right? I can't believe how many say that its a feature and that it is ok that Samsung is screwing them ( along with placebo updates) . I myself love and would like a Galaxy S phone or even the new Focus 7, but its looking like it too has GPS issues from early reports with the Omnia 7.
I know most of you guys are already locked in with your carrier and don't have much choice with the GPS issue but its not a feature, its a valuable function just like placing calls, sending emails, texting, etc.. If you don't care about this, then you should of bought a Razor flip phone.
I have been keeping up with this because I really want to see Samsung resolve this and make right.
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So the only reason you need a phone is for the GPS? Otherwise just stay with my 1996 model flip phone? Just...wow!
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I think their point is that it is an advertised function of the phone and we would like to work properly.
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GimpyLeg said:
So the only reason you need a phone is for the GPS? Otherwise just stay with my 1996 model flip phone? Just...wow!
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reasons for a working GPS are as follows:
Pinpoint your location, get turn-by-turn directions to restaurants, businesses and other destinations, location-based mobile games, social networking sites, real-time position tracking, lost or stolen phone tracking, etc., etc., etc..
What I am saying is just quit making excuses for Samsung and demand what you paid for! There are people on here who would really like for their GPS to be working and rightfully so.

Oh, I agree that it should work as advertised. Can't say Samsung is ' screwing' me because they can't get it right. Would have bought the phone if I knew about it beforehand anyway. There are many other features that led me to the Cappy. Samsung does need to fix the problem and I hope they do so soon. Buy I won't try discourage anyone from Samsung products in the meanwhile.
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wsantiagow said:
My reasons for a working GPS are as follows:
Pinpoint your location, get turn-by-turn directions to restaurants, businesses and other destinations, location-based mobile games, social networking sites, real-time position tracking, lost or stolen phone tracking, etc., etc., etc..
What I am saying is just quit making excuses for Samsung and demand what you paid for! There are people on here who would really like for their GPS to be working and rightfully so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution to the GPS problem is quite simple, but most people still don't see it.
If 100% accuracy and < 10 second fixes are more important to you than the rest of the Galaxy S features, then you do not want a Galaxy S phone. Either return the one you have or don't buy it. For most people, that good of a GPS is a bonus and not a requirement.
The GPS problems are not undocumented, anyone reading any reviews for the phone will realize that the GPS is not as good as other devices. Even if they don't realize it before they buy it, they have 30 days to return it. Samsung may or may not ever get the problem worked out since phones have such a short life cycle. *****ing about it in thread after thread, online petitions, and idle threats of legal action will have absolutely no impact on Samsung.

Nexus S GPS

Hi guys! New to the forum and the Android OS. I've just purchased the Nexus S a couple of weeks ago and the phone is great except for a couple of minor details, but one thing really bothers me is the GPS. When I'm connected to wi-fi, Google maps is able to tell me my location fairly accurately. However, outdoors with no wi-fi, I try to have the settings to locate me based on satellite, but that always give me a "your current location is temporarily unavailable" message. I'm basically completely outdoors with view of the clear blue sky and it will always give me this message. Is something wrong

I've searched on the forum but nothing that answers my question. Anyone?

Hi,
Based on your question I am not shure if you are aware of the following:
GPS is only one of several location detection methods used by your phone. Another one is based on WIFI hotspots in range. Basically the phone scans the wifi frequencies to look for ALL hotspots in range and then sends this list of hotspots to google (only if some kind of internet access is available to the phone!). When this combination of hotspots is known to google, your phone gets an estimated location back from the google server. So from what you write, it is possible that you never had a gps fix, even when you got a (fairly good) location based on wifi.
I suggest you install some gps software other than google maps to check the functionality of your device. I use "GPS test", should be on the market. All it does, is scanning for satellites and displaying the list of discovered satelites. When the signal is good enough, you get a "U" in the column "flags" for the locked satellites.
Attention! You must start the scan manually from the apps context menu.
cheers

Yeah you gotta turn on your GPS for a more accurate reading if you're using maps or other navigational app
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Just an update. I haven't needed to use the GPS lately, but this week I decided to try again, and before, I have gotten a GPS fix with the GPS Test app. But that signal never lasts very long and it also takes a really long time for the app to use the satellite to lock on to my location. The GPS indicator on the top left of the app is usually yellow and only after a long time does it turn green, but sometimes it never turns green even with 7 or 8 satellites in view. Is this just a limitation of mobile GPS in cell phones?
I don't have a data plan so I can't connect to the internet while on the road, hence the need for GPS without having internet access.

As long as you have the SIM inserted, not on airplane mode and gps is turned on, and nothing is wrong with your phone hardware I don't see why it shouldn't get location fix outdoor.
There are some good offline maps like Osmand and MapDroyd.

GPS icon going super fast.

Tonight I noticed a pattern on my LG Optimus T running CM7 2.3.5.
If I disable "use wireless networks" under location and the GPS comes up to find my signal (I assume Google Latitude was calling for it even though it was backgrounded?????) it flashes super fast. I'm talking 12-15x a second. It's far faster than the searching for GPS icon we're all used to seeing.
If I re-enable "use wireless networks" it's instantly fine. If I disable it, it goes back to flashing.
I even signed out of Latitude to make sure it wasn't Latitude causing it to act up, but it did the same thing in both scenarios.
What could be causing this? I tried rebooting it, powering off and pulling the battery, etc. Any ideas?

Well, some new findings, and some new questions.
I have no idea what was causing the issue. Someone suggested I may have several GPS apps at once trying to get a grip on my location. I'm not sure what exactly happened but I ended up pulling a recovery from 10 days ago when I backed it up and it took care of the issue.
Moving along... I'm reading that "use wireless networks" helps the GPS antenna to find my location significantly faster since it can hone in on the area instead of the entire globe. Okay, fine. But I noticed something today. Previously I noticed that Google Latitude was wildly inaccurate. Further research after driving up and down the east coast reveals that Google Latitude (using only cell tower triangulation) is actually pretty damn accurate. In fact, it's always triangulated me within 2.5 miles of my location.
Here's the curve ball. Today I had wifi enabled. On a hunch, I opened Latitude. It said I was in Mineola, New York. Uh. No. I'm definitely in the very very southern most area of Pennsylvania you can get (Maryland border is a mere 5 minute bike ride away). I disable wifi, back in PA. I enable wifi, back in New York.
That said, it's obvious my wifi is throwing off the accuracy of Latitude. Personally I can't even find use with Latitude since I'm ALWAYS on wifi with work. Always. There are several buildings many miles apart I could be at, and since I'm always on wifi, the use of this app is really tanked if my wifi is going to throw off co-workers from knowing where I truly am. And this isn't Latitude's fault from what I can tell... something is goofed up in the database (whoever's database it is) that signifies my current wifi = New York when it should have been Pennsylvania, clearly.
So here's my next question - is it possible to separate wifi vs mobile tower triangulation? I noticed on my Android (Optimus T running CM7 2.3.5) that it specifically says:
Use Wireless Networks
Location determined by Wi-Fi and/or mobile networks
Keyword being... "or"...
Any ideas??

Anybody? No dice?