Cheapest option for AT&T 3g Froyo phone? - General Questions and Answers

I'm working on a project, and I need an Android phone that's compatible with AT&T 3G, and running Froyo. The obvious choice is the Nexus One for AT&T, but the project's not really worth spending $500+ on. Are there any other phones out there that are compatible with AT&T 3G, unlockable and capable of running Froyo?

your best bet would be a t mobile phone, i was looking in to the same thing for a while and my best bet was buying a g1 or a mytouch 3g, as all att phones are very locked down and wont run froyo

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Whats a good android phone tmo?

My current carrier is tmobile and I own a my touch 3g and I am looking for a better android running phone.
So what would be a good unlocked android phone to buy? Other than the ones tmobile offers. I have seen a few sites with unlocked android phones for any carrier.
HTC Espresso: myTouch 3G Slide
thricemin said:
My current carrier is tmobile and I own a my touch 3g and I am looking for a better android running phone.
So what would be a good unlocked android phone to buy? Other than the ones tmobile offers. I have seen a few sites with unlocked android phones for any carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking of grabbing a myTouch if you want to unload yours - send me a message if you do decide to change.
There is a simple two word answer that can't be beat: Samsung Vibrant. It's the T-Mobile version of the Samsung Galaxy S and should be the best/most powerful phone T-Mobile has as of this month when it comes out. $199.99 with a 2-year contract rpice. Not sure how much full retail is but then there is the ATT version which has a crazy low full retail price of $349.99.
You should check out the Nexus One unlocked and start rocken
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=559

What's With The Terrible CDMA Support?

All the U.S. Cdma carriers were late with the first wave of wp7 devices. I'm with Verizon and we didn't get the HTC Trophy until June. Sprint got HTC arrive a couple month earlier but by the time those devices were released in the U.S. they were already year old devices.
So 6 months later GSM is getting the roll out of the mango phones with front facing cameras and those of us with cdma arrives and trophies are looking with no signs of a cdma wp7 with a ff cam in sight. What gives?
How come HTC and Samsung aren't making cdma variants of their phones they give carriers and bringing them to cdma carriers? Like how they brought variants of the HTC touch pro 2 and the HTC evo to all the carriers?
Anyone else getting angry with the lackluster cdma support? Why aren't they launching more phones than just the ones that seemingly come out annually?
Sent from my mwp6985 using Board Express
My bet is that Sprint and Verizon are effectively done with bringing CDMA phones to market and they don't want a new phone unless it is an iPhone or 4G (LTE and/or WiMax).
I expect Verizon phones once LTE support hits with Tango.
It'll be spring.
I, for one, am really happy VZW got a 3G WP7 phone. I am in an area that prob will get LTE in the LAST phase of any roll out (we got 3G in Oct 2010). I was also able to get it before the end of unlimited data.
What is killing me isn't carrier support, but hack support. I would love to developed a ROM for the HTC Trophy, but I have the CDMA Verizon version, and it has yet to be unlocked.
I know part of this is that the unlock devs are in China and do not have access to the CDMA Trophy.. but it seems no one wants to get together and buy/send them a Trophy CDMA to work on. :/
I know I can't afford it myself.. and for some reason the price has increased on Amazon Wireless (the phone alone was going for $388, now its $479)... but perhaps if a bunch of us chipped in we could send them one.
I have talked to mwang and cotulla and offered to buy them both Verizon trophies . They have both told me that they have cdma devices in hand and are currently testing .. I know it's taking a while , but the good news is that it IS being worked on . I want a DFT rom as bad as anyone ...hell id settle for interop unlock .. I suppose we just have to be patient .
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Well, it's good to know that its a work in progress. I just pray that the unlock will be based on the 7.5 rom.. many people got burnt by installing the demo rom... (well, maybe you could base it on the demo rom??). The only way to get rid of the demo rom was to install the leaked 7.5 rom (I was refused RMA because of the demo).
Oh well, if I have to go back to the demo just to unlock, I'll pray that is a workable option (many can't unlock after getting 7.5 roms).
Well, there simply are much less CDMA carriers in the world than there are GSM/UMTS ones. Given that Verizon and Sprint seem not to be too much into WP7 that explains why developing those devices is a low priority to the manufacturers.
It is a bit strange considering the Sprint Touch Pro/TP2 were the more popular devices back in the WM days then any of the other carrier devices. Now with the Arrive being almost a direct successor of the Touch Pro 2, you would think it would have gotten the same dedicated treatment, sadly, this is not the case. I do hope Sprint continues with the Arrive and whatever comes next has the same keyboard and a more refined design with the Titan like upgrades.
A 4" screen with the same keyboard, 1.5Ghz processor, and all the other Mango bells and whistles would be grand.
The most frank response is very simple:
The entire world uses GSM.
I know of all of two, maybe three countries where there are even CDMA networks. If I was making a phone, I wouldn't even be thinking about CDMA unless I was selling millions of units and expansion was easiest by using the inferior (whether true or not technologically, CMDA is inferior in a pure business sense) technology.
I know this is true too.
I can't wait for LTE to roll out and put Verizon on the same playing field as most of the world, but I also know that my area will likely be the last, even if it is being used as the primary example of how broadband internet needs to be pushed out to rural areas.
I mean, the other carriers in this area just plain don't care. Dial 16407 as the zipcode into the AT&T and Sprint coverage areas, and you'll see that neither has even got 3G up and running in this area.. let alone 4G! T-Mobile = non-existent.
I can't even get DSL on my outer rims road because Verizon (which just happens to be my land line provider) won't run DSL down it because of a massive farm that takes up the first 1/3 of this section of road!?!
Anyone who says "just move" is ignorant and should be shot.

[Q] Looking for a good, cheap, no-contract AT&T smartphone

I don't have my Motorola Atrix 4G anymore, so I'm looking for a good, cheap, no contract smartphone with a physical QWERTY keyboard to buy myself. Right now I'm borrowing a friend's Pantech Link until I get a new phone. I don't want to spend more than around $100, though I'm willing to go a little higher if it's worth it. I mostly use my phone for texting, calling, browsing, Facebook, email, looking up directions/movies/restaurants, and playing Pokemon with an emulator so nothing too intensive, I really didn't need such a high-end smartphone like I used to have.
I'm on AT&T so I need an AT&T phone smartphone or unlocked GSM smartphone that'll work with AT&T. I plan to use the phone for about a year and a half until my contract ends though I might buy another phone before then.
I've been looking at the Motorola Charm that Newegg has on sale for $100. It's unlocked and will work on AT&T, and looks pretty good other than it's 3 MP fixed focus screen and QVGA screen though for $100 it's much better than most of the dumbphones I'll find for under $100.
What do you guys think about this phone and do you know of any other good phones for under $100? Thanks!
Bump.
/10 chars
The LG quantum generally runs ~$100 used on online classifieds. Its a att phone with a slider keyboard, running windows phone 7. WP7 is very different compared to android, but its elegant looking, smooth, and super stable. The Facebook app, angrybirds, email are all really good. I doubt there are any free emulators for it, but there are a lot of good quality apps if you don't mind paying a few bucks.
Other than that on att with a keyboard you may be looking at older Windows Mobile phones, like the Tilt 2, or Fuze. They are great phones, with nice keyboards, but very low screen resulotion, and there are no apps in the way they exist on Android or WP7. You can install programs, but there is no store, and will all be old.
You also have the palm offering that might be cheap now. The veer and pre plus have sliders, and wesOS has an app store, even if it is dwindling. I do love my TouchPad, but didn't like a pre plus.
The next option is ... wait for it ... blackberry. I won't get into that, as that is the only platform I never tried.
I don't know about the TMo offerings, but any TMo phone unlocked will work, but you will only get edge, not 3G. The G1 would probably run in your price range.
If you can convince att to give you an early upgrade you could try for the Captivate Slide. Its almost the best android phone on att, and it has a keyboard. But, off contract will be way above your price range.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
The LG quantum generally runs ~$100 used on online classifieds. Its a att phone with a slider keyboard, running windows phone 7. WP7 is very different compared to android, but its elegant looking, smooth, and super stable. The Facebook app, angrybirds, email are all really good. I doubt there are any free emulators for it, but there are a lot of good quality apps if you don't mind paying a few bucks.
Other than that on att with a keyboard you may be looking at older Windows Mobile phones, like the Tilt 2, or Fuze. They are great phones, with nice keyboards, but very low screen resulotion, and there are no apps in the way they exist on Android or WP7. You can install programs, but there is no store, and will all be old.
You also have the palm offering that might be cheap now. The veer and pre plus have sliders, and wesOS has an app store, even if it is dwindling. I do love my TouchPad, but didn't like a pre plus.
The next option is ... wait for it ... blackberry. I won't get into that, as that is the only platform I never tried.
I don't know about the TMo offerings, but any TMo phone unlocked will work, but you will only get edge, not 3G. The G1 would probably run in your price range.
If you can convince att to give you an early upgrade you could try for the Captivate Slide. Its almost the best android phone on att, and it has a keyboard. But, off contract will be way above your price range.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the advice!
The LG Quantum looks nice, and I've heard a lot of good things about the WP7 OS. I prefer Samsung phones over LG phones so I'll start looking at WP7 phones. I don't want anything outdated though so I'm going to stay away from phones like the HTC Tilt2 and HTC Fuze even though the Tilt 2 looks pretty nice.
I'm not a fan of Blackberries so I'm going to stay away from them.
Also, why would I only get Edge and not 3G if I used an unlocked T-Mobile phone? The Motorola Charm for example supports 850/900/1800/1900 MHz GSM bands; AT&T uses 850/1900 MHz and T-Mobile uses 900/1800 MHz so I'm not sure why I'd only get Edge.
Thanks again!
That charm might work on att 3G. The TMo branded devices generally lack at least one if not several of the att bands (TMo also uses 1700 and 2100). The vibrant is the only one I have heard of working on att, and it didn't support all the bands (I want to say it included 850, but not 1900), so it only worked in some regions.
I like Samsung over LG too, but the quantum is the only QWERTY WP7 device branded for att. The Samsung devices don't have keyboards. WP7 doesn't have the fragmentation that Android does. Microsoft put stricter hardware requirements on the OEMs, so I am fairly certain all of the devices are upgradeable to Mango. I know the original Focus (Samsung not Ford) was upgraded, and ran Mango perfectly. I had a Focus for a month, and was impressed with it, but ultimately went with SGS II, as I am an Android power user.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
That charm might work on att 3G. The TMo branded devices generally lack at least one if not several of the att bands (TMo also uses 1700 and 2100). The vibrant is the only one I have heard of working on att, and it didn't support all the bands (I want to say it included 850, but not 1900), so it only worked in some regions.
I like Samsung over LG too, but the quantum is the only QWERTY WP7 device branded for att. The Samsung devices don't have keyboards. WP7 doesn't have the fragmentation that Android does. Microsoft put stricter hardware requirements on the OEMs, so I am fairly certain all of the devices are upgradeable to Mango. I know the original Focus (Samsung not Ford) was upgraded, and ran Mango perfectly. I had a Focus for a month, and was impressed with it, but ultimately went with SGS II, as I am an Android power user.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I defiantly want either an Android 2.1/2.2/2.3 or a WP7/WP7.5 phone with a physical QWERTY keyboard that's cheap so there's not a lot to choose from. I looked online and the Motorola Charm doesn't support 3G on AT&T so that phone's off my list now. :/
I've been reading reviews on the LG Quantum and it looks like a really nice phone. Two main problems though. For one it doesn't have some of the Applications that I rely on that Android has. Notably, a SMS/MMS Backup Application. Second it's too much for my budget, it's about $160 new at the cheapest, plus CA sales tax. I'm kind of iffy about buying a phone used, do you know if it's cheaper anywhere else?
Thanks again for all your help!
I thought of a few more QWERTY att phones. The Dell Venue pro is a portrait slider running WP7. The Motorola Backflip (att's first android phone that everyone forgets about) has an interesting keyboard, it folds out, so when closed the keys face out, instead of sliding. But, I think its stuck on android 1.6. Motorola also released the flipside and flipout on att, both on 2.1. The flipout is smaller, and the keyboard rotates on a pivot, sliding out at 90 degrees. The flipside is more like a normal slider.
The SMS backup was a problem for me on the Focus too. Albeit not a huge problem, but one I never found a solution to. As far as apps, I found it annoying that some apps weren't there, and didn't want to stick it out until they were.
For QWERTY android phones its going to be tricky. HTC made great QWERTY WinMo phones, but no android ones for att (several for TMo). Samsung made the sprint version of the galaxy s QWERTY, but that won't work on att. The G2 on TMo is QWERTY, but won't get 3G data. The Motorola QWERTY android att phones are odd form factors (backflip and flipout), and weren't popular.
The flipside may be your best bet, and on eBay they are close to your range. I believe they run motoblur, which is known to cause poor performance, and generally one of the worst android skins. (What was on the Atrix is not the same, scaled back compared to those earlier versions from what I understand)
As far as used phones, I have never had issues buying used phones. Check the water indicators, and place a test call if buying local. If buying online many eBay sellers offer 30 day warranties.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)

[Q] Buying a no-contract smart phone

I'm a T-Mobile Prepaid customer using a simple $19 phone but am planning to purchase a no-contract smart phone, say Samsung Galaxy S 2 or HTC Amaze 4G.
If I buy one of these for T-Mobile Prepaid, am I locked in there, or the phone is useful even if I might move onto another carrier such as Verizon or ATT, or to another Plan within T-Mobile later?
xdabyk said:
I'm a T-Mobile Prepaid customer using a simple $19 phone but am planning to purchase a no-contract smart phone, say Samsung Galaxy S 2 or HTC Amaze 4G.
If I buy one of these for T-Mobile Prepaid, am I locked in there, or the phone is useful even if I might move onto another carrier such as Verizon or ATT, or to another Plan within T-Mobile later?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you are not locked in if you buy a phone off contract. You will not be able to move to verizon or sprint with the phone though, because they use CDMA and not GSM like the rest of the world.
you can outright buy the phone, but check to see if they have a pre-paid plan/data plan for that phone, it will not be unlocked so you cannot move. You can request t-mobile to unlock it though, but you will not get the same 4g speeds
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
lowandbehold said:
No you are not locked in if you buy a phone off contract. You will not be able to move to verizon or sprint with the phone though, because they use CDMA and not GSM like the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. Does that mean I can use the Samsung Galaxy S2 No-Contract Model I buy from/for T-Mobil Prepaid now for other carriers of GSM? May I understand from your reply message(s) that T-Mobile is a GSM format carrier(and so is AT&T?) as opposed to Verizon and Sprint being a CDMA guys? If so, I can use the phone as long as my next carrier is a GSM guy? Does this make sense?
djjuice said:
you can outright buy the phone, but check to see if they have a pre-paid plan/data plan for that phone, it will not be unlocked so you cannot move. You can request t-mobile to unlock it though, but you will not get the same 4g speeds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To: djjuice -
Thank you. I will do some homework in order to understand what "locked", "unlock" and " . . . will not get the same 4g speeds" mean.
Even unlocked the phone may not support the 3G or "4"G data speed between TMobile and AT&T. The AT&T Galaxy S II will not run on TMobile 3G data, only Edge (2G) data, because they run on different frequencies, same thing with the TMobile Galaxy S II does not support AT&T frequencies. If you buy the phone off contract from TMobile, they should unlock it for you, but there is no guarantee it will work (fully) anywhere else.
If you buy a phone off of craigslist even though you are buying it off contract you cannot guarantee it can be unlocked freely. For example if you buy an AT&T phone used from someone, AT&T will not unlock it for you for free until it's a certain number of months old (based on when the first person bought it from AT&T). You would have to pay a third party for an unlock code (if there is no help here on xda to unlock it).
It's best to just buy a phone for the carrier you plan on using. That ensures its going to work, and that it will work at full speed. If you really think you are going to switch to AT&T buy one of their branded phones, or Verizon etc. Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA, but they are very resistant to allowing another carriers phone on their network. Plus their 4G networks are different types (Verizon uses LTE, Sprint WiMax) so they wouldn't work fully regardless.
Thank you, quarlow.
My budget is around $600 max. So I'm inclined to purchase an HTC Amaze 4Z or Samsung Galaxy S2 for use for T-Mobile Prepaid at Target or at T-Mobile. T-Mobile Net Shop is selling Galaxy S2 Re-Furbished at a discount price. Hear Galaxy S2 have high rate of initial failures and therefore maybe better to buy a re-furbished one that has failed once and was repaired by qualified repairman. Below is how I come to think of buying a smart phone now. I've been happy with a simple prepaid phone buying 100 minutes at a time, which lasts more than a year for me. I also use a Sony Clie, a PDA running Palm Desk Top, which has gone obsolete long time ago. With a smart phone such as Galaxy or Amaze 4Z, I can leave not only the PDA but also a digital camera home. I do not need to access my PDA data over internet. I will import necessary data from my PC to my new smart phone either via cable or via WIFI before going out. That's why I want to remain "Prepaid Customer" not a customer with monthly fees. (Besides, I am not so much interested in leaving my data at ISP's servers.)
Thank you.
I haven't heard of high failure on the Galaxy S II's for TMo. But I have seen several studies showing refurbished devices have lower failure rates because they can have problem components replaced, and have to pass full qa testing twice.
If you are going to put all your data on your phone via USB on the computer, or wifi, then data compatibility won't matter. That changes the whole issue of taking it to another carrier. Any att or TMo phone that is unlocked will make and receive phone calls, text messages and mms messages just fine on the other network. You will only notice the difference when web browsing, or downloading files. If you aren't going to do that, then it wont make a difference.
Knowing that and your budget I would say get a international version of the phone. Get the Galaxy S II (i9100), or the Galaxy Note, or the Galaxy Nexus. All of those phones are top tier, and international versions will receive updates quicker. The Nexus being the Google device will be the first ICS device to get the next version of android, so its the most future proof. The GSM version of any of those phones will likely come unlocked.
The i9100 has a 4.3" screen, and 1.2Ghz dual core Exynos chip. The TMo version has a 4.5" screen (same resolution) with 1.5Ghz dual core qualcomm chip. The bigger screens did have issues with splotches and vertical lines far more than the 4.3" screen. With them being the same resolution the smaller screen is crisper. The Exynos chip is made by Samsung and widely regarded as the better chip, even at a slower speed. It also comes with a more powerful gpu than the qualcomm chip. So, the graphics are better, and games run better. The att version (i777) is almost exactly the same as the i9100, except it has the U.S. norm of 4 buttons, vs the international 3 buttons. The dev support on xda for the i9100 is unmatched by any other phone, its an amazing device with a huge support and user base.
The Galaxy Note is a 5.3" half phone half tablet with a stylus, and 1.4Ghz dual core Exynos chip. Its screen is a whopping 1280x800 resolution. But, for some that's too big.
The Galaxy Nexus has a 4.65" screen with 720p resolution (this screen is pentile which means it doesn't have as many sub pixels as it could. Its hard to explain, Google pentile vs rgb and there should be plenty of explinations. But, most reviews say at that resolution you need a microscope to tell). But the real strength with that device is that its the pure Google device. Its running Android the way its meant to be ran, unbloated and unrestricted. That is the Rolls Royce of Android phones for the next year. The Nexus S is last years Google device, and will be the first gingerbread device with an official ICS upgrade, if it isn't already upgraded. Its like a Mercedes at this point, its got the pure android experience, but its running last years tech: 4" screen, 1Ghz single core hummingbird chip.
I'm sure that is way more information than you ever wanted to know, but I hope it helps.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
quarlow said:
Even unlocked the phone may not support the 3G or "4"G data speed between TMobile and AT&T. The AT&T Galaxy S II will not run on TMobile 3G data, only Edge (2G) data, because they run on different frequencies, same thing with the TMobile Galaxy S II does not support AT&T frequencies. If you buy the phone off contract from TMobile, they should unlock it for you, but there is no guarantee it will work (fully) anywhere else.
If you buy a phone off of craigslist even though you are buying it off contract you cannot guarantee it can be unlocked freely. For example if you buy an AT&T phone used from someone, AT&T will not unlock it for you for free until it's a certain number of months old (based on when the first person bought it from AT&T). You would have to pay a third party for an unlock code (if there is no help here on xda to unlock it).
It's best to just buy a phone for the carrier you plan on using. That ensures its going to work, and that it will work at full speed. If you really think you are going to switch to AT&T buy one of their branded phones, or Verizon etc. Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA, but they are very resistant to allowing another carriers phone on their network. Plus their 4G networks are different types (Verizon uses LTE, Sprint WiMax) so they wouldn't work fully regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the T-mobile SGSII supports AT&T 3g.
lowandbehold said:
Actually the T-mobile SGSII supports AT&T 3g.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Att 3G runs on 850 and 1900, with preference on 1900 generally. The TMo looks to have 850, but not 1900. So like the vibrant the support will be spotty at best. It may work in some places, but not everywhere.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
To quarlow and lowandbehold -
Very informative! Thank you very much.
I will stay with the plan to go for a Galaxy S2(i1900) or an HTC Amaze 4Z for TMO Prepaid. If there be good prepaid phone service(s) available from other carrier(s), I'd definitely want to learn about.

Best Phone to use on Straight Talk

Hello everyone,
As you can see I am a newbie and this is my first post. Excuse me if a thread like this was made before, but after searching on the web I recently found out that I can use my E71 sim card on AT&T phones. I would like people's opinion on which phone I should buy? I also hear from fellow students that CES 2012 just happend. Should I wait for the new phones or just purchase a phone that is out now?
Thanks and much appreciated
Depends what you want, how much you can afford a month and how much your willing to spend on a phone. If your looking for prepaid virgin mobile is good, they have the motorola triumph, htc wildfire s, lg optimus v, lg optimus slider and samsung intercept (all are android) look up some planes on the internet, at&t prepaid is good but metro pcs has nice 4g phones and android phones, I see you want to no whats the best phone from straigt talk, i dont no much about the phones but check out metro,virgin, and at&t
HTC Wildfire S (VM) "s-off" "rooted" Stock Rom
Well I just read up on how ST has a loop hole and you can use mainly AT&T phone and some T-Mobile phones with the right 3G frequencies. I was willing to spend no more than $250 for a phone, but I don't know how long the loop hole is going to be open so I don't want to spend a lot on a phone and it not work. I was looking at the Atrix but various sites aren't every accurate when it came to comparing it to the Infuse or Inspire and other phones.
Do u want prepaid? For 250 you can by a nice prepaid phone
HTC Wildfire S (VM) "s-off" "rooted" Stock Rom
Straight Talk offers 2 android phones. The LG Optimus Q and the Samsung Galaxy Precedent.
If u want more android for prepaid id say metro pcs or virgin mobile
HTC Wildfire S (VM) "s-off" "rooted" Stock Rom
From what I read can't I just use any phone from AT&T and use my sim card on it? The phones from ST are entry level android and I want a full fledge android phone if there is such a thing.
Yes, you can use any AT&T smartphone on Straight Talk, I did it for about a year. For under $250, I'd try and get an AT&T band Nexus S, an Infuse, or maybe a Galaxy S2 if you can go an extra $100 higher. It's definitely worth the extra cash.
My local Walmart thinks there will be a new Android phone available in February 2012 for Straight Talk, any idea on make/model? or if worth the wait?
Look at virgin mobile, 4g is coming this year but all there other Android is 3g
Sent from my HTC_A510c using XDA App
I have been doing some reading and is it worth buying a 4G phone, since ST doesn't use 4G yet. Until they upgrade their bands?
Android311 said:
Look at virgin mobile, 4g is coming this year but all there other Android is 3g
Sent from my HTC_A510c using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're missing the point of the OP. He's not asking for recommendations for carriers, or phones on other carriers. He's only interested in StraightTalk, and since ST's GSM phones (at least, the E71) runs on AT&T, you can just stick the E71's SIM card in an AT&T phone and use it. He's asking for good/cheap AT&T phones to run on StraightTalk.
So, to answer the OP's question, I would probably try to go with a Nexus S (look for the AT&T band one, like entropism said), or maybe a used iPhone 4.

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